Re: [time-nuts] MIT 2 inch cesium fountain, optically pumped

2014-11-24 Thread Mark Kahrs
Hey, that's what the 'tute website said, I'm just reporting.

The aforementioned dissertation features the same octagonal cell as
described in the paper.

For those of you with access to knowledge of ultracold quartz chambers, go
right on ahead.


On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Chuck Harris  wrote:

> The Linux program Okular has no trouble printing this file.
>
> -Chuck Harris
>
>
> Robert LaJeunesse wrote:
>
>> I use an older XP based "drag and drop freeware PDF unlocker" that strips
>> many PDF
>> restrictions. It made the file below quite printable.
>>
>> Bob L.
>>
>>  Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 at 9:05 AM From: "Mark Kahrs"
>>>  To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency
>>> measurement"  Subject: Re: [time-nuts] MIT 2 inch
>>> cesium
>>> fountain, optically pumped
>>>
>>> For those who are interested, a relevant dissertation can be found here:
>>>
>>> http://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/71453/795174737.pdf
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, you can't print it, but you can read it.  A rather
>>> complete
>>> discussion of the construction of the experimental apparatus is included.
>>>
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Re: [time-nuts] MIT 2 inch cesium fountain, optically pumped

2014-11-24 Thread Chuck Harris

The Linux program Okular has no trouble printing this file.

-Chuck Harris

Robert LaJeunesse wrote:

I use an older XP based "drag and drop freeware PDF unlocker" that strips many 
PDF
restrictions. It made the file below quite printable.

Bob L.


Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 at 9:05 AM From: "Mark Kahrs"
 To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency
measurement"  Subject: Re: [time-nuts] MIT 2 inch cesium
fountain, optically pumped

For those who are interested, a relevant dissertation can be found here:

http://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/71453/795174737.pdf

Unfortunately, you can't print it, but you can read it.  A rather complete
discussion of the construction of the experimental apparatus is included.

___ time-nuts mailing list --
time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
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Re: [time-nuts] MIT 2 inch cesium fountain, optically pumped

2014-11-24 Thread Robert LaJeunesse
I use an older XP based "drag and drop freeware PDF unlocker" that strips many 
PDF restrictions. It made the file below quite printable. 

Bob L.

> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 at 9:05 AM
> From: "Mark Kahrs" 
> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 
> 
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] MIT 2 inch cesium fountain, optically pumped
>
> For those who are interested, a relevant dissertation can be found here:
> 
> http://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/71453/795174737.pdf
> 
> Unfortunately, you can't print it, but you can read it.  A rather complete
> discussion of the construction of the experimental apparatus is included.
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Re: [time-nuts] MIT 2 inch cesium fountain, optically pumped

2014-11-24 Thread Jim Lux

On 11/24/14, 6:05 AM, Mark Kahrs wrote:

For those who are interested, a relevant dissertation can be found here:

http://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/71453/795174737.pdf

Unfortunately, you can't print it, but you can read it.  A rather complete
discussion of the construction of the experimental apparatus is included.





That dissertation is about building a sensitive accelerometer, as 
opposed to a clock. There might be some connection: they're all about 
hanging some slow cold atoms out there to use as a sensor.




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Re: [time-nuts] MIT 2 inch cesium fountain, optically pumped

2014-11-24 Thread paul swed
That is a good paper. I can't understand much of it.
There you go thats the measure. :-)
Thanks
Paul
WB8TSL

On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 9:05 AM, Mark Kahrs  wrote:

> For those who are interested, a relevant dissertation can be found here:
>
> http://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/71453/795174737.pdf
>
> Unfortunately, you can't print it, but you can read it.  A rather complete
> discussion of the construction of the experimental apparatus is included.
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Bob Camp  wrote:
>
> > HI
> >
> > I saw that when it came out. It’s a CSAC based gizmo and thus a gas cell
> > rather than a beam tube / state selection device.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > > On Nov 20, 2014, at 8:37 AM, Peter Torry 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Bob,
> > >
> > > Some time ago Hoptroff  produced a Cs pocket watch using the
> Symmetricom
> > SA45s - now how long for a wrist watch !!
> > >
> > > http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/01/hoptroff-no-10/
> > >
> > > Peter
> > > (still pendulum controlled)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 20/11/2014 12:38, Bob Camp wrote:
> > >> Hi
> > >>
> > >> So the wrist watch sized fountain that was promised 15 years ago isn’t
> > gong to be here for Christmas this year?
> > >>
> > >> Bob
> > >>
> > >>> On Nov 20, 2014, at 12:17 AM, Magnus Danielson <
> > mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi Rick,
> > >>>
> > >>> They did not mention the complexity of the laser system they needed,
> > especially considering that the optical bench of a fountain isn't all
> that
> > small, and also because they want to de-tune lasers. While they seems to
> > have an idea, they didn't touch on that subject.
> > >>>
> > >>> Nice to see that people think in a different way thought.
> > >>>
> > >>> Looking forward to see the progress on this one.
> > >>>
> > >>> Cheers,
> > >>> Magnus
> > >>>
> > >>> On 11/20/2014 05:24 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
> >  See:
> > 
> >  http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2014/portable-atomic-clocks-1112
> > 
> >  Any comments?
> > 
> >  Rick Karlquist N6RK
> >  ___
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Re: [time-nuts] MIT 2 inch cesium fountain, optically pumped

2014-11-24 Thread Mark Kahrs
For those who are interested, a relevant dissertation can be found here:

http://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/71453/795174737.pdf

Unfortunately, you can't print it, but you can read it.  A rather complete
discussion of the construction of the experimental apparatus is included.


On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 5:57 PM, Bob Camp  wrote:

> HI
>
> I saw that when it came out. It’s a CSAC based gizmo and thus a gas cell
> rather than a beam tube / state selection device.
>
> Bob
>
> > On Nov 20, 2014, at 8:37 AM, Peter Torry 
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Bob,
> >
> > Some time ago Hoptroff  produced a Cs pocket watch using the Symmetricom
> SA45s - now how long for a wrist watch !!
> >
> > http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/01/hoptroff-no-10/
> >
> > Peter
> > (still pendulum controlled)
> >
> >
> >
> > On 20/11/2014 12:38, Bob Camp wrote:
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> So the wrist watch sized fountain that was promised 15 years ago isn’t
> gong to be here for Christmas this year?
> >>
> >> Bob
> >>
> >>> On Nov 20, 2014, at 12:17 AM, Magnus Danielson <
> mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Rick,
> >>>
> >>> They did not mention the complexity of the laser system they needed,
> especially considering that the optical bench of a fountain isn't all that
> small, and also because they want to de-tune lasers. While they seems to
> have an idea, they didn't touch on that subject.
> >>>
> >>> Nice to see that people think in a different way thought.
> >>>
> >>> Looking forward to see the progress on this one.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> Magnus
> >>>
> >>> On 11/20/2014 05:24 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
>  See:
> 
>  http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2014/portable-atomic-clocks-1112
> 
>  Any comments?
> 
>  Rick Karlquist N6RK
>  ___
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>  To unsubscribe, go to
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Re: [time-nuts] MIT 2 inch cesium fountain, optically pumped

2014-11-20 Thread Bob Camp
HI

I saw that when it came out. It’s a CSAC based gizmo and thus a gas cell rather 
than a beam tube / state selection device. 

Bob

> On Nov 20, 2014, at 8:37 AM, Peter Torry  wrote:
> 
> Hi Bob,
> 
> Some time ago Hoptroff  produced a Cs pocket watch using the Symmetricom 
> SA45s - now how long for a wrist watch !!
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/01/hoptroff-no-10/
> 
> Peter
> (still pendulum controlled)
> 
> 
> 
> On 20/11/2014 12:38, Bob Camp wrote:
>> Hi
>> 
>> So the wrist watch sized fountain that was promised 15 years ago isn’t gong 
>> to be here for Christmas this year?
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>>> On Nov 20, 2014, at 12:17 AM, Magnus Danielson  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Rick,
>>> 
>>> They did not mention the complexity of the laser system they needed, 
>>> especially considering that the optical bench of a fountain isn't all that 
>>> small, and also because they want to de-tune lasers. While they seems to 
>>> have an idea, they didn't touch on that subject.
>>> 
>>> Nice to see that people think in a different way thought.
>>> 
>>> Looking forward to see the progress on this one.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Magnus
>>> 
>>> On 11/20/2014 05:24 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
 See:
 
 http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2014/portable-atomic-clocks-1112
 
 Any comments?
 
 Rick Karlquist N6RK
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to
 https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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>>> and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] MIT 2 inch cesium fountain, optically pumped

2014-11-20 Thread David C. Partridge
Yes, but that one's just a GPS watch (with a humongous price tag).

Regards,
David Partridge 
-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Jason Rabel
Sent: 20 November 2014 15:58
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] MIT 2 inch cesium fountain, optically pumped

Actually, I just looked at Hoptroff's website and guess what? Merry Christmas!

http://www.hoptroff.com/collections/atomic-timepieces/products/no-16


> Some time ago Hoptroff  produced a Cs pocket watch using the 
> Symmetricom SA45s - now how long for a wrist watch !!

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Re: [time-nuts] MIT 2 inch cesium fountain, optically pumped

2014-11-20 Thread paul swed
This is simply great. I now know what to look for at the MIT flea next
spring (If its around? Pure speculation on my part)
No more GPS, CS, or RBs for me and to heck with LORAN C and WWVB also.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 8:37 AM, Peter Torry 
wrote:

> Hi Bob,
>
> Some time ago Hoptroff  produced a Cs pocket watch using the Symmetricom
> SA45s - now how long for a wrist watch !!
>
> http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/01/hoptroff-no-10/
>
> Peter
> (still pendulum controlled)
>
>
>
>
> On 20/11/2014 12:38, Bob Camp wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> So the wrist watch sized fountain that was promised 15 years ago isn’t
>> gong to be here for Christmas this year?
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>  On Nov 20, 2014, at 12:17 AM, Magnus Danielson <
>>> mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Rick,
>>>
>>> They did not mention the complexity of the laser system they needed,
>>> especially considering that the optical bench of a fountain isn't all that
>>> small, and also because they want to de-tune lasers. While they seems to
>>> have an idea, they didn't touch on that subject.
>>>
>>> Nice to see that people think in a different way thought.
>>>
>>> Looking forward to see the progress on this one.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Magnus
>>>
>>> On 11/20/2014 05:24 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
>>>
 See:

 http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2014/portable-atomic-clocks-1112

 Any comments?

 Rick Karlquist N6RK
 ___
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 To unsubscribe, go to
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>>> ___
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>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>>
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>
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Re: [time-nuts] MIT 2 inch cesium fountain, optically pumped

2014-11-20 Thread Jason Rabel
Actually, I just looked at Hoptroff's website and guess what? Merry
Christmas!

http://www.hoptroff.com/collections/atomic-timepieces/products/no-16


> Some time ago Hoptroff  produced a Cs pocket watch 
> using the Symmetricom SA45s - now how long for a wrist watch !!

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Re: [time-nuts] MIT 2 inch cesium fountain, optically pumped

2014-11-20 Thread Peter Torry

Hi Bob,

Some time ago Hoptroff  produced a Cs pocket watch using the Symmetricom 
SA45s - now how long for a wrist watch !!


http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/01/hoptroff-no-10/

Peter
(still pendulum controlled)



On 20/11/2014 12:38, Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

So the wrist watch sized fountain that was promised 15 years ago isn’t gong to 
be here for Christmas this year?

Bob


On Nov 20, 2014, at 12:17 AM, Magnus Danielson  
wrote:

Hi Rick,

They did not mention the complexity of the laser system they needed, especially 
considering that the optical bench of a fountain isn't all that small, and also 
because they want to de-tune lasers. While they seems to have an idea, they 
didn't touch on that subject.

Nice to see that people think in a different way thought.

Looking forward to see the progress on this one.

Cheers,
Magnus

On 11/20/2014 05:24 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:

See:

http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2014/portable-atomic-clocks-1112

Any comments?

Rick Karlquist N6RK
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Re: [time-nuts] MIT 2 inch cesium fountain, optically pumped

2014-11-20 Thread jmfranke
The article says: "What time is it? The answer, no matter what your initial 
reference may be — a wristwatch, a smartphone, or an alarm clock — will always 
trace back to the atomic clock.
The international standard for time is set by atomic clocks — "

I always thought "atomic" clocks are maintained by NIST and used as the primary 
standard for frequency. Whereas time is maintained by USNO.

John  WA4WDL


 "Richard (Rick) Karlquist"  wrote: 
> See:
> 
> http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2014/portable-atomic-clocks-1112
> 
> Any comments?
> 
> Rick Karlquist N6RK
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Re: [time-nuts] MIT 2 inch cesium fountain, optically pumped

2014-11-20 Thread Jim Lux

On 11/19/14, 9:17 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote:

Hi Rick,

They did not mention the complexity of the laser system they needed,
especially considering that the optical bench of a fountain isn't all
that small, and also because they want to de-tune lasers. While they
seems to have an idea, they didn't touch on that subject.

Nice to see that people think in a different way thought.

Looking forward to see the progress on this one.

Cheers,
Magnus

On 11/20/2014 05:24 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:

See:

http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2014/portable-atomic-clocks-1112

Any comments?



And, of course, the article being cited in the news release is behind a 
paywall..



I'm always a bit cynical when I see the words like
"We have a path toward making a compact, robust clock that’s better than 
CSACs by a couple of orders of magnitude, and more stable over longer 
periods of time.”"

and "potentially the size of a Rubik’s cube."

That "path towards"

Having watched the progress of the  SpaceClock/1 Liter Atomic Clock/Deep 
Space Atomic Clock (all names for the Hg ion clock).. it's a long long 
way from "concept sort of demonstrated in the lab" to "device I can buy 
with a large-ish check"


Just reading the abstract, which doesn't give much detail about how "lab 
bench" this is, I'm going to guess this is at TRL 3 - basic principle 
demonstrated on a lab bench.
The press release is talking about applications at TRL 8 or 9.  A 
finished product..


It's probably 20-30 years away, and getting from lab full of equipment 
to "Rubik's Cube" (i.e. a liter) is going to be a lot more challenging 
than those authors think, I suspect.


That said, it's neat to see folks pushing in different directions.

The other day I was down in a lab under my office and saw a "breadbox 
sized" unit that can cool some atoms down to 100 picoKelvins in a few 
seconds with the push of a button.

http://coldatomlab.jpl.nasa.gov/

 And not too long ago(1995), that was lab full of gear and a team of 
researchers struggling for days to get it to sometimes, maybe work.


http://jilawww.colorado.edu/bec/BEC_for_everyone/

"The current experimental systems were designed by people with a 
tremendous amount of knowledge and experience in experimental atomic 
physics, and until now producing a BEC without expertise in ultracold 
atom trapping has been a daunting task" from

http://jilawww.colorado.edu/bec/CornellGroup/JLTP_Lewandowski2003.pdf

so, from
first demo in a lab in 1995 - which got them a Nobel
to cookbook for grad students and post docs and $300k in 2003
to one-off box that has a pushbutton and fits in a locker on ISS in 2015



http://coldatomlab.jpl.nasa.gov/news/CalTest/  has a picture of the box 
on the shaker table


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Re: [time-nuts] MIT 2 inch cesium fountain, optically pumped

2014-11-20 Thread Bob Camp
Hi

So the wrist watch sized fountain that was promised 15 years ago isn’t gong to 
be here for Christmas this year?

Bob

> On Nov 20, 2014, at 12:17 AM, Magnus Danielson  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Rick,
> 
> They did not mention the complexity of the laser system they needed, 
> especially considering that the optical bench of a fountain isn't all that 
> small, and also because they want to de-tune lasers. While they seems to have 
> an idea, they didn't touch on that subject.
> 
> Nice to see that people think in a different way thought.
> 
> Looking forward to see the progress on this one.
> 
> Cheers,
> Magnus
> 
> On 11/20/2014 05:24 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
>> See:
>> 
>> http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2014/portable-atomic-clocks-1112
>> 
>> Any comments?
>> 
>> Rick Karlquist N6RK
>> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] MIT 2 inch cesium fountain, optically pumped

2014-11-19 Thread Magnus Danielson

Hi Rick,

They did not mention the complexity of the laser system they needed, 
especially considering that the optical bench of a fountain isn't all 
that small, and also because they want to de-tune lasers. While they 
seems to have an idea, they didn't touch on that subject.


Nice to see that people think in a different way thought.

Looking forward to see the progress on this one.

Cheers,
Magnus

On 11/20/2014 05:24 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:

See:

http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2014/portable-atomic-clocks-1112

Any comments?

Rick Karlquist N6RK
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[time-nuts] MIT 2 inch cesium fountain, optically pumped

2014-11-19 Thread Richard (Rick) Karlquist

See:

http://newsoffice.mit.edu/2014/portable-atomic-clocks-1112

Any comments?

Rick Karlquist N6RK
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