Re: [time-nuts] Mercury Ion Clock
On 3 Nov 2014 02:59, Bert Kehren via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote: I respectfully disagree. Before getting totally submerged in time nuts issues I did extensive work on signal sources up to 40 GHz as a hobby. So I have since the early 90's sweeper, synthesizer, power meter, mixer for the HP 7 series, attenuates and most important frequency counter and non fall off the cliff at 40 GHz. 40.5 is still doable the limiting factor is wave guide cut off frequency. One of the reasons I still hold on to the 5345 frequency counter the best for high resolution frequency counting in that range. Yes it was not cheap but more and more equipment and components become available last year I helped a friend sell eight HP mixers for frequencies above 50 GHz. The big question is phase noise and how much power and no it will not be $ 200 but $ 2500 depending on power and phase noise.is attainable. Bert Kehren I doubt that you could assemble either a spectrum analyzer or signal generator at just over 40 GHz for $2500. A frequency counter one could easily do. I puchased a used 20 GHz sweeper in the UK last week for the US equivalent of $900. I think that was particularly cheap and probably helped by the fact that the seller had poor feedback and didn't do a good job of describing it. But that was only at 20 GHz. A US dealer, who is kindly going to give me a software code to enable a step size of 1 Hz, rather than 1 kHz said it was worth more than that in just parts. Waveguide modes should not be a problem if you use either the right size coax or waveguide. In coax that means using 2.4 mm connectors, as both SMA and 3.5 mm can't work at 40 GHz. But anything in 2.4 mm is going to be expensive. A simple female-female adapter is like to cost nearly $100. I just looked quickly on eBay and could not see any working 40 GHz signal or sweep generator for less than $15,000. Neither could I find a non working 40 GHz signal or sweep generator for $2500. As I wrote earlier, 40 GHz tends to be one of the frequencies that commercial gear stops at, so getting to 41 GHz is likely to be substantially more expensive than 40 GHz. There's now quite a bit of modestly Chinese test equipment up to a few GHz, but I don't see anything modestly priced at 40 GHz. So I don't think $2500 is likely to buy you a lab of 40 GHz test equipment. I am sure if one waits enough, one will find a cheaper unit on eBay, but I think that one is still going to be paying serious amounts of money. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Mercury Ion Clock
Do not want to get off list subject but again have to disagree. First I was not referring to $ 2500 spectrum analyzer but a single frequency source. As to equipment available some of the equipment on ebay is not visible to offshore buyers. It also helps to know your sellers and I am not talking actually have talked to them but understand their listing. Just checked my buys and on July 1st 2012 I bought a Wiltron 6740B 40 GHz excellent condition for $332 total cost. You could not have bid on it. All I am saying that 40.5 GHz should not be hindrance to pursue Mercury Ion there may be more challenging issues and if time nuts want to do something I may be able to furnish that source. Like I said before I commit I would have to better understand the requirements. Bert Kehren In a message dated 11/3/2014 5:09:08 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk writes: On 3 Nov 2014 02:59, Bert Kehren via time-nuts _time-nuts@febo.com_ (mailto:time-nuts@febo.com) wrote: I respectfully disagree. Before getting totally submerged in time nuts issues I did extensive work on signal sources up to 40 GHz as a hobby. So I have since the early 90's sweeper, synthesizer, power meter, mixer for the HP 7 series, attenuates and most important frequency counter and non fall off the cliff at 40 GHz. 40.5 is still doable the limiting factor is wave guide cut off frequency. One of the reasons I still hold on to the 5345 frequency counter the best for high resolution frequency counting in that range. Yes it was not cheap but more and more equipment and components become available last year I helped a friend sell eight HP mixers for frequencies above 50 GHz. The big question is phase noise and how much power and no it will not be $ 200 but $ 2500 depending on power and phase _noise.is_ (http://noise.is/) attainable. Bert Kehren I doubt that you could assemble either a spectrum analyzer or signal generator at just over 40 GHz for $2500. A frequency counter one could easily do. I puchased a used 20 GHz sweeper in the UK last week for the US equivalent of $900. I think that was particularly cheap and probably helped by the fact that the seller had poor feedback and didn't do a good job of describing it. But that was only at 20 GHz. A US dealer, who is kindly going to give me a software code to enable a step size of 1 Hz, rather than 1 kHz said it was worth more than that in just parts. Waveguide modes should not be a problem if you use either the right size coax or waveguide. In coax that means using 2.4 mm connectors, as both SMA and 3.5 mm can't work at 40 GHz. But anything in 2.4 mm is going to be expensive. A simple female-female adapter is like to cost nearly $100. I just looked quickly on eBay and could not see any working 40 GHz signal or sweep generator for less than $15,000. Neither could I find a non working 40 GHz signal or sweep generator for $2500. As I wrote earlier, 40 GHz tends to be one of the frequencies that commercial gear stops at, so getting to 41 GHz is likely to be substantially more expensive than 40 GHz. There's now quite a bit of modestly Chinese test equipment up to a few GHz, but I don't see anything modestly priced at 40 GHz. So I don't think $2500 is likely to buy you a lab of 40 GHz test equipment. I am sure if one waits enough, one will find a cheaper unit on eBay, but I think that one is still going to be paying serious amounts of money. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Mercury Ion Clock
On 3 November 2014 12:58, Bert Kehren via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote: Do not want to get off list subject but again have to disagree. Lets's leave it there. Just checked my buys and on July 1st 2012 I bought a Wiltron 6740B 40 GHz excellent condition for $332 total cost. That was good. You could not have bid on it. Well if it was on eBay, there are ways around the fact I am not in the USA - a member of this list has helped me out on that. But of course if it was at some place else, quite possibly so. Good luck to anyone making such a standard. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Mercury Ion Clock
On 1 Nov 2014 16:50, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: behind a scintillator) The 40 GHz stuff these days is not nearly as exotic as it used to be. The challenge might be test equipment when you're debugging your 40 GHz synthesis chain. There's a fair amount of test equipment around to 40.0 GHz, but it is not cheap even on the used market. But above 40.0 GHz it gets even more expensive, as a lot of kit stops there. So a spectrum analyzer that works to 40.1 GHz is going to cost serious money. I don't know what ones chances of feeding 10.04 MHz into the 10 MHz reference input to 40 GHz test equipment to make it work to 40*10.04/10=40.16 GHz. I suspect that you could get away with it. Dave. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Mercury Ion Clock
Dave, On 11/03/2014 01:29 AM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) wrote: On 1 Nov 2014 16:50, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: behind a scintillator) The 40 GHz stuff these days is not nearly as exotic as it used to be. The challenge might be test equipment when you're debugging your 40 GHz synthesis chain. There's a fair amount of test equipment around to 40.0 GHz, but it is not cheap even on the used market. But above 40.0 GHz it gets even more expensive, as a lot of kit stops there. So a spectrum analyzer that works to 40.1 GHz is going to cost serious money. I don't know what ones chances of feeding 10.04 MHz into the 10 MHz reference input to 40 GHz test equipment to make it work to 40*10.04/10=40.16 GHz. I suspect that you could get away with it. It would not really be needed. Only if you would be using a 40,5 GHz oscillator and steer it, that 40 GHz would be exposed. However, I would not be surprised if a source in the 100 MHz to 1 GHz range or so would be used as an intermediary clock to a big 5 MHz fly-wheel. Naturally that intermediary could be synthesized. There are many ways to go about it. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Mercury Ion Clock
what power is need at 40GHz? 73 Alex On 11/2/2014 4:44 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote: Dave, On 11/03/2014 01:29 AM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) wrote: On 1 Nov 2014 16:50, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: behind a scintillator) The 40 GHz stuff these days is not nearly as exotic as it used to be. The challenge might be test equipment when you're debugging your 40 GHz synthesis chain. There's a fair amount of test equipment around to 40.0 GHz, but it is not cheap even on the used market. But above 40.0 GHz it gets even more expensive, as a lot of kit stops there. So a spectrum analyzer that works to 40.1 GHz is going to cost serious money. I don't know what ones chances of feeding 10.04 MHz into the 10 MHz reference input to 40 GHz test equipment to make it work to 40*10.04/10=40.16 GHz. I suspect that you could get away with it. It would not really be needed. Only if you would be using a 40,5 GHz oscillator and steer it, that 40 GHz would be exposed. However, I would not be surprised if a source in the 100 MHz to 1 GHz range or so would be used as an intermediary clock to a big 5 MHz fly-wheel. Naturally that intermediary could be synthesized. There are many ways to go about it. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Mercury Ion Clock
I respectfully disagree. Before getting totally submerged in time nuts issues I did extensive work on signal sources up to 40 GHz as a hobby. So I have since the early 90's sweeper, synthesizer, power meter, mixer for the HP 7 series, attenuates and most important frequency counter and non fall off the cliff at 40 GHz. 40.5 is still doable the limiting factor is wave guide cut off frequency. One of the reasons I still hold on to the 5345 frequency counter the best for high resolution frequency counting in that range. Yes it was not cheap but more and more equipment and components become available last year I helped a friend sell eight HP mixers for frequencies above 50 GHz. The big question is phase noise and how much power and no it will not be $ 200 but $ 2500 depending on power and phase noise.is attainable. Bert Kehren In a message dated 11/2/2014 7:44:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org writes: Dave, On 11/03/2014 01:29 AM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) wrote: On 1 Nov 2014 16:50, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: behind a scintillator) The 40 GHz stuff these days is not nearly as exotic as it used to be. The challenge might be test equipment when you're debugging your 40 GHz synthesis chain. There's a fair amount of test equipment around to 40.0 GHz, but it is not cheap even on the used market. But above 40.0 GHz it gets even more expensive, as a lot of kit stops there. So a spectrum analyzer that works to 40.1 GHz is going to cost serious money. I don't know what ones chances of feeding 10.04 MHz into the 10 MHz reference input to 40 GHz test equipment to make it work to 40*10.04/10=40.16 GHz. I suspect that you could get away with it. It would not really be needed. Only if you would be using a 40,5 GHz oscillator and steer it, that 40 GHz would be exposed. However, I would not be surprised if a source in the 100 MHz to 1 GHz range or so would be used as an intermediary clock to a big 5 MHz fly-wheel. Naturally that intermediary could be synthesized. There are many ways to go about it. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Mercury Ion Clock
In message 54544287.3000...@pacific.net, Brooke Clarke writes: Hi Bob: I suspect that inside a screen room like that one, where I'm guessing the walls are iron/steel, there's not much of the Earth's mag field left to null. That would be very counter productive, because you would invariably get a very complex mag field which owuld be much harder to cancel out. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Mercury Ion Clock
Hi Bob, The traditional Hg ion clock with it's 40,5 GHz frequency is doable, but it would be interesting if it could be commercialized at a (time-nuts) friendly price. The modern optical clock got much easier to work with when the frequency comb was invented. The frequency comb and stable lasers is now commercialized, but not cheap, not cheap at all. Cheers, Magnus On 11/01/2014 02:27 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Trapped ion clocks have been the “obvious successor” to a Cs tube for at least 30 years. There is a *lot* of very fancy work involved in getting from 10 MHz up to a very specific light wavelength with low ADEV and good phase noise….. Rocket science indeed. Time Nuts rocket science, but tough to do none the less. Bob On Oct 31, 2014, at 8:09 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Humor aside. I did dig deeper. It seems that this technology could be commercialized in larger volumes and might land in the same cost as a good CS does today. Technically it looks reasonable. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 1:45 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Jim I am sorry to say thats the wrong clock picture. That picture is of 2 glass coffee tables and a toaster in between. I see you can order that art om ebay. Item number 142657nottoday3245 Regards Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: OK, I know you all want to go get one... http://discoverjpl.jpl.nasa.gov/posts/520 It's Bob Tjoelker in front of the Deep Space Atomic Clock (DSAC) being tested for magnetic field sensitivity. It's a trapped ion clock, 1 liter/1 kg, orders and orders of magnitude better than a USO in performance. (if it's in the building I think it's in, the rebar is made of non-magnetic stainless steel) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Mercury Ion Clock
Magnus, But for a time-nut how can price even enter into the conversation? Plus it only draws 10s of watts. A green super duper clock. Other comment I read is that there is no part that will wear out. Granted I suspect over many years something happens, but its not the typical CS depletion. I might speculate the glass windows fog or something or on earth the evacuated chamber ultimately leaks or the metal in the vacuum release stuff. No idea but pretty sure I won't be putting a watch on ebay any time soon. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 6:42 AM, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: Hi Bob, The traditional Hg ion clock with it's 40,5 GHz frequency is doable, but it would be interesting if it could be commercialized at a (time-nuts) friendly price. The modern optical clock got much easier to work with when the frequency comb was invented. The frequency comb and stable lasers is now commercialized, but not cheap, not cheap at all. Cheers, Magnus On 11/01/2014 02:27 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Trapped ion clocks have been the “obvious successor” to a Cs tube for at least 30 years. There is a *lot* of very fancy work involved in getting from 10 MHz up to a very specific light wavelength with low ADEV and good phase noise….. Rocket science indeed. Time Nuts rocket science, but tough to do none the less. Bob On Oct 31, 2014, at 8:09 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Humor aside. I did dig deeper. It seems that this technology could be commercialized in larger volumes and might land in the same cost as a good CS does today. Technically it looks reasonable. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 1:45 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Jim I am sorry to say thats the wrong clock picture. That picture is of 2 glass coffee tables and a toaster in between. I see you can order that art om ebay. Item number 142657nottoday3245 Regards Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: OK, I know you all want to go get one... http://discoverjpl.jpl.nasa.gov/posts/520 It's Bob Tjoelker in front of the Deep Space Atomic Clock (DSAC) being tested for magnetic field sensitivity. It's a trapped ion clock, 1 liter/1 kg, orders and orders of magnitude better than a USO in performance. (if it's in the building I think it's in, the rebar is made of non-magnetic stainless steel) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Mercury Ion Clock
Paul, You mean, as all time-nuts already have redundant sites with at least 4 5071As with high-performance tubes, redundant cesium and rubidium fointains, set of active hydrogen masers, with everything in tight temperature, humidity and pressure control, UPS and diesel-engines, GPS/GLONASS/GALILEO receiver on temperature-stabilized piller and antenna, do TWSTFT to major labs... since money is no issue, right? The main problem with cesium tubes as I recall it is really the ionizer in the mass-spectrometer being poluted with cesium, this then creates bad S/N before running out of cesium in the oven. Yes, I agree it would be a great clock to have, but practical limits in cost is a challenge for most, so it would be interesting to look at it and ask how cheap it could be done. Cheers, Magnus On 11/01/2014 03:21 PM, paul swed wrote: Magnus, But for a time-nut how can price even enter into the conversation? Plus it only draws 10s of watts. A green super duper clock. Other comment I read is that there is no part that will wear out. Granted I suspect over many years something happens, but its not the typical CS depletion. I might speculate the glass windows fog or something or on earth the evacuated chamber ultimately leaks or the metal in the vacuum release stuff. No idea but pretty sure I won't be putting a watch on ebay any time soon. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 6:42 AM, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: Hi Bob, The traditional Hg ion clock with it's 40,5 GHz frequency is doable, but it would be interesting if it could be commercialized at a (time-nuts) friendly price. The modern optical clock got much easier to work with when the frequency comb was invented. The frequency comb and stable lasers is now commercialized, but not cheap, not cheap at all. Cheers, Magnus On 11/01/2014 02:27 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Trapped ion clocks have been the “obvious successor” to a Cs tube for at least 30 years. There is a *lot* of very fancy work involved in getting from 10 MHz up to a very specific light wavelength with low ADEV and good phase noise….. Rocket science indeed. Time Nuts rocket science, but tough to do none the less. Bob On Oct 31, 2014, at 8:09 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Humor aside. I did dig deeper. It seems that this technology could be commercialized in larger volumes and might land in the same cost as a good CS does today. Technically it looks reasonable. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 1:45 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Jim I am sorry to say thats the wrong clock picture. That picture is of 2 glass coffee tables and a toaster in between. I see you can order that art om ebay. Item number 142657nottoday3245 Regards Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: OK, I know you all want to go get one... http://discoverjpl.jpl.nasa.gov/posts/520 It's Bob Tjoelker in front of the Deep Space Atomic Clock (DSAC) being tested for magnetic field sensitivity. It's a trapped ion clock, 1 liter/1 kg, orders and orders of magnitude better than a USO in performance. (if it's in the building I think it's in, the rebar is made of non-magnetic stainless steel) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Mercury Ion Clock
Absolutely! but it's not just the price of the hardware. The clock has mercury in it. Horrors! So the paperwork involved with the EPA, OSHA, and who knows what other agency will cost more than the hardware. Best stick with a hydrogen clock, just stick an icepick in it when you want to get rid of it; pt and it's done. Safer than your old refrigerator. :-) seriously, tn's, see: http://www.microsemi.com/document-portal/doc_view/133441-rubidium-devices-material-safety-data-sheet Don paul swed Magnus, But for a time-nut how can price even enter into the conversation? Plus it only draws 10s of watts. A green super duper clock. Other comment I read is that there is no part that will wear out. Granted I suspect over many years something happens, but its not the typical CS depletion. I might speculate the glass windows fog or something or on earth the evacuated chamber ultimately leaks or the metal in the vacuum release stuff. No idea but pretty sure I won't be putting a watch on ebay any time soon. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 6:42 AM, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: Hi Bob, The traditional Hg ion clock with it's 40,5 GHz frequency is doable, but it would be interesting if it could be commercialized at a (time-nuts) friendly price. The modern optical clock got much easier to work with when the frequency comb was invented. The frequency comb and stable lasers is now commercialized, but not cheap, not cheap at all. Cheers, Magnus On 11/01/2014 02:27 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Trapped ion clocks have been the “obvious successor” to a Cs tube for at least 30 years. There is a *lot* of very fancy work involved in getting from 10 MHz up to a very specific light wavelength with low ADEV and good phase noise….. Rocket science indeed. Time Nuts rocket science, but tough to do none the less. Bob On Oct 31, 2014, at 8:09 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Humor aside. I did dig deeper. It seems that this technology could be commercialized in larger volumes and might land in the same cost as a good CS does today. Technically it looks reasonable. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 1:45 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Jim I am sorry to say thats the wrong clock picture. That picture is of 2 glass coffee tables and a toaster in between. I see you can order that art om ebay. Item number 142657nottoday3245 Regards Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: OK, I know you all want to go get one... http://discoverjpl.jpl.nasa.gov/posts/520 It's Bob Tjoelker in front of the Deep Space Atomic Clock (DSAC) being tested for magnetic field sensitivity. It's a trapped ion clock, 1 liter/1 kg, orders and orders of magnitude better than a USO in performance. (if it's in the building I think it's in, the rebar is made of non-magnetic stainless steel) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it. -George Bernard Shaw Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLC 17850 Six Mile Road Huson, MT, 59846 mail: POBox 404 Frenchtown MT 59834-0404 VOX 406-626-4304 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Mercury Ion Clock
On 11/1/14, 9:08 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote: Paul, You mean, as all time-nuts already have redundant sites with at least 4 5071As with high-performance tubes, redundant cesium and rubidium fointains, set of active hydrogen masers, with everything in tight temperature, humidity and pressure control, UPS and diesel-engines, GPS/GLONASS/GALILEO receiver on temperature-stabilized piller and antenna, do TWSTFT to major labs... since money is no issue, right? The main problem with cesium tubes as I recall it is really the ionizer in the mass-spectrometer being poluted with cesium, this then creates bad S/N before running out of cesium in the oven. Yes, I agree it would be a great clock to have, but practical limits in cost is a challenge for most, so it would be interesting to look at it and ask how cheap it could be done. Having been to a few of the design reviews and such for the DSAC, and before, when it was called the 1 liter atomic clock, etc. I think one could build one *if* you have a fairly wide collection of skills, and you weren't hung up on it being tiny and low power, and zero maintenance. For instance, building a perfectly sealed physics package that is space flight compatible is non-trivial. Most of us don't have e-beam welding equipment sitting around (nor does JPL.. we contract that kind of stuff out). As Prestage points out in the article below, they started looking at how they build long life Traveling Wave Tubes for space (another precision ion optics device), and having spent some time in various TWT factories over the past 15 years: there is a lot of art in the manufacturing process. http://trs-new.jpl.nasa.gov/dspace/bitstream/2014/41329/1/07-2003.pdf http://trs-new.jpl.nasa.gov/dspace/bitstream/2014/41395/1/08-0610.pdf However, if you were happy with lab grade construction, and you have the Kurt Lesker and Duniway catalogs as bedside reading, I think you'd have a chance. The ion trap and such is a fairly straightforward thing, from what I understand: you need the usual vacuum pumps and such to build one. If you don't want it to run for years without servicing, then issues of the mercury content are less important. (BTW, the space clock uses thermal dissociation of HgO to get the mercury) The PMT is an off the shelf thing. Check out the amateur built fusion reactor (fusor) websites on where to get PMTs and amplifiers (they're used behind a scintillator) The 40 GHz stuff these days is not nearly as exotic as it used to be. The challenge might be test equipment when you're debugging your 40 GHz synthesis chain. I don't think it would be *easy*, but I think doable, and nothing in the system is particularly expensive or that exotic. It's sort of like telescope building.. The raw materials to make a 18 reflector telescope aren't all that expensive, nor is there some secret sauce: it's just time to grind the mirror (and recover from mistakes) and build the system. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Mercury Ion Clock
Magnus I would say that yes I do have various backups and none as good as any of this discussion. Agreeing with Jim much of this appears to me to be semi-reasonable and in particular in a amateur lab environment. But I am afraid thats just about how far I am going to get on the project. Its right behind the H maser. Any day now. Recovering the Frankenstein CS was about my real limit. I haven't seen any tubes show up on ebay lately. :-) Such is life. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: On 11/1/14, 9:08 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote: Paul, You mean, as all time-nuts already have redundant sites with at least 4 5071As with high-performance tubes, redundant cesium and rubidium fointains, set of active hydrogen masers, with everything in tight temperature, humidity and pressure control, UPS and diesel-engines, GPS/GLONASS/GALILEO receiver on temperature-stabilized piller and antenna, do TWSTFT to major labs... since money is no issue, right? The main problem with cesium tubes as I recall it is really the ionizer in the mass-spectrometer being poluted with cesium, this then creates bad S/N before running out of cesium in the oven. Yes, I agree it would be a great clock to have, but practical limits in cost is a challenge for most, so it would be interesting to look at it and ask how cheap it could be done. Having been to a few of the design reviews and such for the DSAC, and before, when it was called the 1 liter atomic clock, etc. I think one could build one *if* you have a fairly wide collection of skills, and you weren't hung up on it being tiny and low power, and zero maintenance. For instance, building a perfectly sealed physics package that is space flight compatible is non-trivial. Most of us don't have e-beam welding equipment sitting around (nor does JPL.. we contract that kind of stuff out). As Prestage points out in the article below, they started looking at how they build long life Traveling Wave Tubes for space (another precision ion optics device), and having spent some time in various TWT factories over the past 15 years: there is a lot of art in the manufacturing process. http://trs-new.jpl.nasa.gov/dspace/bitstream/2014/41329/1/07-2003.pdf http://trs-new.jpl.nasa.gov/dspace/bitstream/2014/41395/1/08-0610.pdf However, if you were happy with lab grade construction, and you have the Kurt Lesker and Duniway catalogs as bedside reading, I think you'd have a chance. The ion trap and such is a fairly straightforward thing, from what I understand: you need the usual vacuum pumps and such to build one. If you don't want it to run for years without servicing, then issues of the mercury content are less important. (BTW, the space clock uses thermal dissociation of HgO to get the mercury) The PMT is an off the shelf thing. Check out the amateur built fusion reactor (fusor) websites on where to get PMTs and amplifiers (they're used behind a scintillator) The 40 GHz stuff these days is not nearly as exotic as it used to be. The challenge might be test equipment when you're debugging your 40 GHz synthesis chain. I don't think it would be *easy*, but I think doable, and nothing in the system is particularly expensive or that exotic. It's sort of like telescope building.. The raw materials to make a 18 reflector telescope aren't all that expensive, nor is there some secret sauce: it's just time to grind the mirror (and recover from mistakes) and build the system. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Mercury Ion Clock
Jim, On 11/01/2014 05:49 PM, Jim Lux wrote: Having been to a few of the design reviews and such for the DSAC, and before, when it was called the 1 liter atomic clock, etc. I think one could build one *if* you have a fairly wide collection of skills, and you weren't hung up on it being tiny and low power, and zero maintenance. For instance, building a perfectly sealed physics package that is space flight compatible is non-trivial. Most of us don't have e-beam welding equipment sitting around (nor does JPL.. we contract that kind of stuff out). As Prestage points out in the article below, they started looking at how they build long life Traveling Wave Tubes for space (another precision ion optics device), and having spent some time in various TWT factories over the past 15 years: there is a lot of art in the manufacturing process. Ah, yes, *most* time-nuts is not aiming to shoot their clocks into deep space. We are satisfied to stay in geostationary orbit or lower ;-) http://trs-new.jpl.nasa.gov/dspace/bitstream/2014/41329/1/07-2003.pdf http://trs-new.jpl.nasa.gov/dspace/bitstream/2014/41395/1/08-0610.pdf However, if you were happy with lab grade construction, and you have the Kurt Lesker and Duniway catalogs as bedside reading, I think you'd have a chance. Yes. I guess a bit of baking out the build is also to be recommended. I guess most of us don't do vacuum in our labs, so there is a challenge in itself, as there is many beginners mistakes to be done there. The ion trap and such is a fairly straightforward thing, from what I understand: you need the usual vacuum pumps and such to build one. If you don't want it to run for years without servicing, then issues of the mercury content are less important. (BTW, the space clock uses thermal dissociation of HgO to get the mercury) Have tou cared to get the right isotope or do you use the natural abundance spreading? Hg-199 has an abundance of 16,87%. The PMT is an off the shelf thing. Check out the amateur built fusion reactor (fusor) websites on where to get PMTs and amplifiers (they're used behind a scintillator) Ah yes. Got a NaI(Tl) scintilator with about 1 cm copper filter and a matching PMT. No amp thought, but then again, I do not know what I should measure with it. :) The 40 GHz stuff these days is not nearly as exotic as it used to be. The challenge might be test equipment when you're debugging your 40 GHz synthesis chain. I was thinking the same, especially when consider optical clocks, then 40 GHz isn't as esoteric. Traditional cesiums and rubidiums use a pair of synthesized frequencies being then sent into a step-recover diode inside a tuned cavity which then does the mixing and selects the right combination. I don't think it would be *easy*, but I think doable, and nothing in the system is particularly expensive or that exotic. It's sort of like telescope building.. The raw materials to make a 18 reflector telescope aren't all that expensive, nor is there some secret sauce: it's just time to grind the mirror (and recover from mistakes) and build the system. Would be a fun project to do, things to be learned. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Mercury Ion Clock
Paul, The lack of hydrogen masers here is disturbing. So is better cesiums tanked up and fresh. Will see what I can do with what I got. Fixing up rubidiums and cesiums is currently how far this lab goes. Cheers, Magnus On 11/01/2014 06:23 PM, paul swed wrote: Magnus I would say that yes I do have various backups and none as good as any of this discussion. Agreeing with Jim much of this appears to me to be semi-reasonable and in particular in a amateur lab environment. But I am afraid thats just about how far I am going to get on the project. Its right behind the H maser. Any day now. Recovering the Frankenstein CS was about my real limit. I haven't seen any tubes show up on ebay lately. :-) Such is life. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: On 11/1/14, 9:08 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote: Paul, You mean, as all time-nuts already have redundant sites with at least 4 5071As with high-performance tubes, redundant cesium and rubidium fointains, set of active hydrogen masers, with everything in tight temperature, humidity and pressure control, UPS and diesel-engines, GPS/GLONASS/GALILEO receiver on temperature-stabilized piller and antenna, do TWSTFT to major labs... since money is no issue, right? The main problem with cesium tubes as I recall it is really the ionizer in the mass-spectrometer being poluted with cesium, this then creates bad S/N before running out of cesium in the oven. Yes, I agree it would be a great clock to have, but practical limits in cost is a challenge for most, so it would be interesting to look at it and ask how cheap it could be done. Having been to a few of the design reviews and such for the DSAC, and before, when it was called the 1 liter atomic clock, etc. I think one could build one *if* you have a fairly wide collection of skills, and you weren't hung up on it being tiny and low power, and zero maintenance. For instance, building a perfectly sealed physics package that is space flight compatible is non-trivial. Most of us don't have e-beam welding equipment sitting around (nor does JPL.. we contract that kind of stuff out). As Prestage points out in the article below, they started looking at how they build long life Traveling Wave Tubes for space (another precision ion optics device), and having spent some time in various TWT factories over the past 15 years: there is a lot of art in the manufacturing process. http://trs-new.jpl.nasa.gov/dspace/bitstream/2014/41329/1/07-2003.pdf http://trs-new.jpl.nasa.gov/dspace/bitstream/2014/41395/1/08-0610.pdf However, if you were happy with lab grade construction, and you have the Kurt Lesker and Duniway catalogs as bedside reading, I think you'd have a chance. The ion trap and such is a fairly straightforward thing, from what I understand: you need the usual vacuum pumps and such to build one. If you don't want it to run for years without servicing, then issues of the mercury content are less important. (BTW, the space clock uses thermal dissociation of HgO to get the mercury) The PMT is an off the shelf thing. Check out the amateur built fusion reactor (fusor) websites on where to get PMTs and amplifiers (they're used behind a scintillator) The 40 GHz stuff these days is not nearly as exotic as it used to be. The challenge might be test equipment when you're debugging your 40 GHz synthesis chain. I don't think it would be *easy*, but I think doable, and nothing in the system is particularly expensive or that exotic. It's sort of like telescope building.. The raw materials to make a 18 reflector telescope aren't all that expensive, nor is there some secret sauce: it's just time to grind the mirror (and recover from mistakes) and build the system. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Mercury Ion Clock
On 11/1/14, 11:05 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote: Jim, However, if you were happy with lab grade construction, and you have the Kurt Lesker and Duniway catalogs as bedside reading, I think you'd have a chance. Yes. I guess a bit of baking out the build is also to be recommended. I guess most of us don't do vacuum in our labs, so there is a challenge in itself, as there is many beginners mistakes to be done there. I haven't done high vacuum in quite a few years, but it is fascinating and frustrating. These days, quite a bit of surplus gear is out there that does make life easier (e.g. turbo molecular pumps). A Hg Ion system isn't real huge, and doesn't have a big gas load, so a straightforward LN2 sorption pump would probably work as a batch mode(e.g. a bunch of the right material, plunged into a LN bath, and it the gas molecules just stick right to the material.. ) The ion trap and such is a fairly straightforward thing, from what I understand: you need the usual vacuum pumps and such to build one. If you don't want it to run for years without servicing, then issues of the mercury content are less important. (BTW, the space clock uses thermal dissociation of HgO to get the mercury) Have tou cared to get the right isotope or do you use the natural abundance spreading? Hg-199 has an abundance of 16,87%. Interesting, I don't know if they go out and sort it, or if they set up the system so that it's basically a mass spec, and the wrong isotope doesn't make it through the quadrupole filter. I'll bet the latter. No matter how good your offline enrichment process is, there will always be some other stuff in there. For all I know, the actual ion trap is specific to the mass of the ions. The PMT is an off the shelf thing. Check out the amateur built fusion reactor (fusor) websites on where to get PMTs and amplifiers (they're used behind a scintillator) Ah yes. Got a NaI(Tl) scintilator with about 1 cm copper filter and a matching PMT. No amp thought, but then again, I do not know what I should measure with it. :) You can measure radiation from common household objects like bananas The 40 GHz stuff these days is not nearly as exotic as it used to be. The challenge might be test equipment when you're debugging your 40 GHz synthesis chain. I was thinking the same, especially when consider optical clocks, then 40 GHz isn't as esoteric. Traditional cesiums and rubidiums use a pair of synthesized frequencies being then sent into a step-recover diode inside a tuned cavity which then does the mixing and selects the right combination. Same scheme might work here. Next time I'm talking to one of the DSAC folks, I'll ask how they do the synthesis chain. I don't think it would be *easy*, but I think doable, and nothing in the system is particularly expensive or that exotic. It's sort of like telescope building.. The raw materials to make a 18 reflector telescope aren't all that expensive, nor is there some secret sauce: it's just time to grind the mirror (and recover from mistakes) and build the system. Would be a fun project to do, things to be learned. For when you get tired of counting femtoseconds.. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Mercury Ion Clock
Hi On Nov 1, 2014, at 2:35 PM, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: On 11/1/14, 11:05 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote: Jim, However, if you were happy with lab grade construction, and you have the Kurt Lesker and Duniway catalogs as bedside reading, I think you'd have a chance. Yes. I guess a bit of baking out the build is also to be recommended. I guess most of us don't do vacuum in our labs, so there is a challenge in itself, as there is many beginners mistakes to be done there. I haven't done high vacuum in quite a few years, but it is fascinating and frustrating. These days, quite a bit of surplus gear is out there that does make life easier (e.g. turbo molecular pumps). A Hg Ion system isn't real huge, and doesn't have a big gas load, so a straightforward LN2 sorption pump would probably work as a batch mode(e.g. a bunch of the right material, plunged into a LN bath, and it the gas molecules just stick right to the material.. ) The ion trap and such is a fairly straightforward thing, from what I understand: you need the usual vacuum pumps and such to build one. If you don't want it to run for years without servicing, then issues of the mercury content are less important. (BTW, the space clock uses thermal dissociation of HgO to get the mercury) Have tou cared to get the right isotope or do you use the natural abundance spreading? Hg-199 has an abundance of 16,87%. Interesting, I don't know if they go out and sort it, or if they set up the system so that it's basically a mass spec, and the wrong isotope doesn't make it through the quadrupole filter. Don’t in any way discount the amount of effort in getting that filter to work “right”. I'll bet the latter. No matter how good your offline enrichment process is, there will always be some other stuff in there. For all I know, the actual ion trap is specific to the mass of the ions. The PMT is an off the shelf thing. Check out the amateur built fusion reactor (fusor) websites on where to get PMTs and amplifiers (they're used behind a scintillator) Ah yes. Got a NaI(Tl) scintilator with about 1 cm copper filter and a matching PMT. No amp thought, but then again, I do not know what I should measure with it. :) You can measure radiation from common household objects like bananas The 40 GHz stuff these days is not nearly as exotic as it used to be. The challenge might be test equipment when you're debugging your 40 GHz synthesis chain. I was thinking the same, especially when consider optical clocks, then 40 GHz isn't as esoteric. Can you get this all done with 40 GHz as your “top” frequency? Traditional cesiums and rubidiums use a pair of synthesized frequencies being then sent into a step-recover diode inside a tuned cavity which then does the mixing and selects the right combination. Same scheme might work here. Next time I'm talking to one of the DSAC folks, I'll ask how they do the synthesis chain. I don't think it would be *easy*, but I think doable, and nothing in the system is particularly expensive or that exotic. It's sort of like telescope building.. The raw materials to make a 18 reflector telescope aren't all that expensive, nor is there some secret sauce: it's just time to grind the mirror (and recover from mistakes) and build the system. Would be a fun project to do, things to be learned. For when you get tired of counting femtoseconds.. Then you need to build a second one to check the first one with. Bob ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Mercury Ion Clock
OK, I know you all want to go get one... http://discoverjpl.jpl.nasa.gov/posts/520 It's Bob Tjoelker in front of the Deep Space Atomic Clock (DSAC) being tested for magnetic field sensitivity. It's a trapped ion clock, 1 liter/1 kg, orders and orders of magnitude better than a USO in performance. (if it's in the building I think it's in, the rebar is made of non-magnetic stainless steel) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Mercury Ion Clock
Jim I am sorry to say thats the wrong clock picture. That picture is of 2 glass coffee tables and a toaster in between. I see you can order that art om ebay. Item number 142657nottoday3245 Regards Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: OK, I know you all want to go get one... http://discoverjpl.jpl.nasa.gov/posts/520 It's Bob Tjoelker in front of the Deep Space Atomic Clock (DSAC) being tested for magnetic field sensitivity. It's a trapped ion clock, 1 liter/1 kg, orders and orders of magnitude better than a USO in performance. (if it's in the building I think it's in, the rebar is made of non-magnetic stainless steel) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Mercury Ion Clock
Hi Either my mag coil “do it in your head” math is off or that’s a pretty low field Helmholtz setup. Skinny coils…. Bob On Oct 31, 2014, at 1:36 PM, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: OK, I know you all want to go get one... http://discoverjpl.jpl.nasa.gov/posts/520 It's Bob Tjoelker in front of the Deep Space Atomic Clock (DSAC) being tested for magnetic field sensitivity. It's a trapped ion clock, 1 liter/1 kg, orders and orders of magnitude better than a USO in performance. (if it's in the building I think it's in, the rebar is made of non-magnetic stainless steel) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Mercury Ion Clock
Humor aside. I did dig deeper. It seems that this technology could be commercialized in larger volumes and might land in the same cost as a good CS does today. Technically it looks reasonable. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 1:45 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Jim I am sorry to say thats the wrong clock picture. That picture is of 2 glass coffee tables and a toaster in between. I see you can order that art om ebay. Item number 142657nottoday3245 Regards Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: OK, I know you all want to go get one... http://discoverjpl.jpl.nasa.gov/posts/520 It's Bob Tjoelker in front of the Deep Space Atomic Clock (DSAC) being tested for magnetic field sensitivity. It's a trapped ion clock, 1 liter/1 kg, orders and orders of magnitude better than a USO in performance. (if it's in the building I think it's in, the rebar is made of non-magnetic stainless steel) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Mercury Ion Clock
On 10/31/14, 5:05 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Either my mag coil “do it in your head” math is off or that’s a pretty low field Helmholtz setup. Skinny coils…. Just to cancel earth's field or to simulate maybe Jovian fields. Or, just to evaluate the sensitivity. And, of course, it's all about Ampere Turns.. Maybe those are special room temperature superconducting coils carrying kiloamperes? We could always send an email to Bob and ask him.. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Mercury Ion Clock
Hi Trapped ion clocks have been the “obvious successor” to a Cs tube for at least 30 years. There is a *lot* of very fancy work involved in getting from 10 MHz up to a very specific light wavelength with low ADEV and good phase noise….. Rocket science indeed. Time Nuts rocket science, but tough to do none the less. Bob On Oct 31, 2014, at 8:09 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Humor aside. I did dig deeper. It seems that this technology could be commercialized in larger volumes and might land in the same cost as a good CS does today. Technically it looks reasonable. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 1:45 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Jim I am sorry to say thats the wrong clock picture. That picture is of 2 glass coffee tables and a toaster in between. I see you can order that art om ebay. Item number 142657nottoday3245 Regards Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: OK, I know you all want to go get one... http://discoverjpl.jpl.nasa.gov/posts/520 It's Bob Tjoelker in front of the Deep Space Atomic Clock (DSAC) being tested for magnetic field sensitivity. It's a trapped ion clock, 1 liter/1 kg, orders and orders of magnitude better than a USO in performance. (if it's in the building I think it's in, the rebar is made of non-magnetic stainless steel) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Mercury Ion Clock
Hi ….. or the test only needs to run for a *very* short time….. I guess I’ll have to ask Mr Wikipedia what Jupiter’s mag field looks like … Bob On Oct 31, 2014, at 9:09 PM, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: On 10/31/14, 5:05 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Either my mag coil “do it in your head” math is off or that’s a pretty low field Helmholtz setup. Skinny coils…. Just to cancel earth's field or to simulate maybe Jovian fields. Or, just to evaluate the sensitivity. And, of course, it's all about Ampere Turns.. Maybe those are special room temperature superconducting coils carrying kiloamperes? We could always send an email to Bob and ask him.. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Mercury Ion Clock
Hi Bob: I suspect that inside a screen room like that one, where I'm guessing the walls are iron/steel, there's not much of the Earth's mag field left to null. Mail_Attachment -- Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html http://www.prc68.com/I/DietNutrition.html Bob Camp wrote: Hi Either my mag coil “do it in your head” math is off or that’s a pretty low field Helmholtz setup. Skinny coils…. Bob On Oct 31, 2014, at 1:36 PM, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: OK, I know you all want to go get one... http://discoverjpl.jpl.nasa.gov/posts/520 It's Bob Tjoelker in front of the Deep Space Atomic Clock (DSAC) being tested for magnetic field sensitivity. It's a trapped ion clock, 1 liter/1 kg, orders and orders of magnitude better than a USO in performance. (if it's in the building I think it's in, the rebar is made of non-magnetic stainless steel) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
