Re: [time-nuts] National Standards labs worldwide - specifically Australia
On 2 Jul 2014 07:55, "Magnus Danielson" wrote: > The authoritative source is BIPM: > http://www.bipm.org/en/practical_info/useful_links/nmi.html Thank you. That is a useful resource to know of. > which points to: > http://www.measurement.gov.au/Pages/default.aspx Thanks, that is probably what I want. I am basically looking to find a paper on waveguide calibration of VNAs with 1/8 & 3/8 wavelength offset shorts which I believe was done at an Australian standards lab. I had no idea what lab, who done the work, when etc. Someone has kindly sent me a private email with a possible author who is unfortunately deceased, working in a group which is now almost non existant. > Then you can check with them if they have the traceability for the measurements you need. I was asking about the 50 Ohm load just to try to find out what lab done those sorts of measurements. I am actually in the UK on the other side of the world to Australia, so don't need to get a load calibrated. > Cheers, > Magnus Thanky you Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] National Standards labs worldwide - specifically Australia
David, On 06/29/2014 12:33 PM, Dr. David Kirkby wrote: I know of NPL in the UK, and NIST in the USA, but is anyone aware of other "standard labs". In particular I am looking for the Australian equivalent. A Google search came across "Standards Australia" http://www.standards.org.au/ but I don't know how "authoritative" this is. There is basically nothing stopping any body here setting up a web site claiming to be the countries leading non-government standards labs. I have a very healthy skepticism of calibration laboratories in general NIST for example does have a ".gov" domain, which gives it a bit more credibility than a typical .com. NPL does not have a .gov, despite we use it in the UK. I found the The National Measurement Institute (NMI) http://www.measurement.gov.au/ which is probably the one I am looking for. There are people on this list who I would trust to produce a list of national standards labs more than I would from a Google search or Wikipedia. There are a couple of things I am looking to find out - neither of which are very time-nut related, but both are to some extent as they they involve measuring the phase difference between two signals. 1) There was some work done somewhere (I believe an Australian lab), which showed that calibrating a VNA with 1/8 and 3/8 offset shorts is superior to a flush short and 1/4 spacer. Both give the desired 180 degree difference in reflected signal, so at first thought they are equivalent. I do know the reason the 1/8 and 3/8 are superior, but I'd like to find a reference. 2) Who in Australia would be best at measuring the reflection coefficient of a 50 Ohm termination? The authoritative source is BIPM: http://www.bipm.org/en/practical_info/useful_links/nmi.html which points to: http://www.measurement.gov.au/Pages/default.aspx Then you can check with them if they have the traceability for the measurements you need. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] National Standards labs worldwide - specifically Australia
David, If you are looking for the Australian NMI (the equivalent of NPL and NIST) then you are correct it is called the National Measurement Institute (Australia) www.measurement.gov.au for a list of all the NMI's that are signatories (or associates) of the metre treaty then www.bipm.org (or more explicitly) http://www.bipm.org/en/practical_info/useful_links/nmi.html is the place to look. Regarding VNA calibration, sadly the RF Microwave Project of NMI Australia is not as active as is was years ago due to the RF Microwave industry moving away from Australia and the need for traceable measurements in that area decreased. I believe that the work you are referring to would have been done by the late Dr Peter Solmo. I cannot provide direct reference although if you want I could provide a contact in NMI Australia or one of its recent retirees that may know. Kind Regards, Stephen Grady Sydney Australia. On Jun 29, 2014, at 6:33 AM, Dr. David Kirkby wrote: > I know of NPL in the UK, and NIST in the USA, but is anyone aware of > other "standard labs". In particular I am looking for the Australian > equivalent. A Google search came across "Standards Australia" > > http://www.standards.org.au/ > > but I don't know how "authoritative" this is. There is basically > nothing stopping any body here setting up a web site claiming to be > the countries leading non-government standards labs. I have a very > healthy skepticism of calibration laboratories in general > > NIST for example does have a ".gov" domain, which gives it a bit more > credibility than a typical .com. > NPL does not have a .gov, despite we use it in the UK. > > I found the The National Measurement Institute (NMI) > http://www.measurement.gov.au/ > > which is probably the one I am looking for. > > There are people on this list who I would trust to produce a list of > national standards labs more than I would from a Google search or > Wikipedia. > > There are a couple of things I am looking to find out - neither of > which are very time-nut related, but both are to some extent as they > they involve measuring the phase difference between two signals. > > 1) There was some work done somewhere (I believe an Australian lab), > which showed that calibrating a VNA with 1/8 and 3/8 offset shorts is > superior to a flush short and 1/4 spacer. Both give the desired 180 > degree difference in reflected signal, so at first thought they are > equivalent. I do know the reason the 1/8 and 3/8 are superior, but I'd > like to find a reference. > > 2) Who in Australia would be best at measuring the reflection > coefficient of a 50 Ohm termination? > > -- > Dr. David Kirkby G8WRB > http://www.vnacalibration.co.uk/ > Economical & accurate VNA calibration kits. > Coefficients available for HP, Agilent, Anritsu, Rohde & Schwarz and > VNWA network analyzers. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] National Standards labs worldwide - specifically Australia
Hi David Standards Australia performs a somewhat different function in that it does not maintain reference standards or do testing but rather it produces written standards such as for construction of buildings, electrical wiring and food standards. Standards Australia is certainly authoritative in that it is partly supported by a Government grant and has a range of specialist committees with Industry and Government representation and the written standards it produces are often referred to in Federal and State Government legislation and then have the authority of Law. Reference standards are maintained by a range of other bodies but the prime one is the National Measurement Institute. http://www.measurement.gov.au/Pages/default.aspx In terms of the sort of measurement such as reflection of a 50 ohm load this work is normally done by NATA (National Association of Testing Authorities) accredited laboratories. http://www.nata.com.au/nata/ 73 Rex VK7MO ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] National Standards labs worldwide - specifically Australia
On 2014-06-29 04:33, Dr. David Kirkby wrote: I know of NPL in the UK, and NIST in the USA, but is anyone aware of other "standard labs". In particular I am looking for the Australian equivalent. A Google search came across "Standards Australia" http://www.standards.org.au/ but I don't know how "authoritative" this is. There is basically nothing stopping any body here setting up a web site claiming to be the countries leading non-government standards labs. I have a very healthy skepticism of calibration laboratories in general NIST for example does have a ".gov" domain, which gives it a bit more credibility than a typical .com. NPL does not have a .gov, despite we use it in the UK. I found the The National Measurement Institute (NMI) http://www.measurement.gov.au/ which is probably the one I am looking for. There are people on this list who I would trust to produce a list of national standards labs more than I would from a Google search or Wikipedia. There are a couple of things I am looking to find out - neither of which are very time-nut related, but both are to some extent as they they involve measuring the phase difference between two signals. 1) There was some work done somewhere (I believe an Australian lab), which showed that calibrating a VNA with 1/8 and 3/8 offset shorts is superior to a flush short and 1/4 spacer. Both give the desired 180 degree difference in reflected signal, so at first thought they are equivalent. I do know the reason the 1/8 and 3/8 are superior, but I'd like to find a reference. 2) Who in Australia would be best at measuring the reflection coefficient of a 50 Ohm termination? BIPM lookup for NMIs - practical information > useful links > metrology institutes http://www.bipm.org/en/practical_info/useful_links/nmi.html AU -> NMIA http://www.measurement.gov.au -- Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] National Standards labs worldwide - specifically Australia
Hi Over here NIST is very much part of the government. In many cases, if I want a certain gizmo calibrated, I would not / could not send it there. It either would be fairly expensive or simply something they don’t do. In the case of 50 ohm terminations, ours go back to Agilent / HP / Keysight (what ever their name is this week …). The resulting calibration is traceable to NIST standards over the stated range of frequencies and accuracies. Yes that begs the question of “how do they do it”. Last time I (briefly) dug into it, the answer was not at all simple. It appeared that you were more “traceable to HP” than “traceable to NIST”. What ever the approach, I’ve never seen a problem when I’ve checked the returned standards against each other and against our internal reference standards. Bob On Jun 29, 2014, at 6:33 AM, Dr. David Kirkby wrote: > I know of NPL in the UK, and NIST in the USA, but is anyone aware of > other "standard labs". In particular I am looking for the Australian > equivalent. A Google search came across "Standards Australia" > > http://www.standards.org.au/ > > but I don't know how "authoritative" this is. There is basically > nothing stopping any body here setting up a web site claiming to be > the countries leading non-government standards labs. I have a very > healthy skepticism of calibration laboratories in general > > NIST for example does have a ".gov" domain, which gives it a bit more > credibility than a typical .com. > NPL does not have a .gov, despite we use it in the UK. > > I found the The National Measurement Institute (NMI) > http://www.measurement.gov.au/ > > which is probably the one I am looking for. > > There are people on this list who I would trust to produce a list of > national standards labs more than I would from a Google search or > Wikipedia. > > There are a couple of things I am looking to find out - neither of > which are very time-nut related, but both are to some extent as they > they involve measuring the phase difference between two signals. > > 1) There was some work done somewhere (I believe an Australian lab), > which showed that calibrating a VNA with 1/8 and 3/8 offset shorts is > superior to a flush short and 1/4 spacer. Both give the desired 180 > degree difference in reflected signal, so at first thought they are > equivalent. I do know the reason the 1/8 and 3/8 are superior, but I'd > like to find a reference. > > 2) Who in Australia would be best at measuring the reflection > coefficient of a 50 Ohm termination? > > -- > Dr. David Kirkby G8WRB > http://www.vnacalibration.co.uk/ > Economical & accurate VNA calibration kits. > Coefficients available for HP, Agilent, Anritsu, Rohde & Schwarz and > VNWA network analyzers. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] National Standards labs worldwide - specifically Australia
Hi, it used to be called NSL, National Standards Laboratory, part of the CSIRO. Now it appears to be called National Measurement Institute, (NSI) and seems to be located mainly at Lindfield NSW. http://www.measurement.gov.au/Pages/default.aspx See if that works, Cheers, Neville Michie On 29/06/2014, at 8:33 PM, Dr. David Kirkby wrote: > I know of NPL in the UK, and NIST in the USA, but is anyone aware of > other "standard labs". In particular I am looking for the Australian > equivalent. A Google search came across "Standards Australia" > > http://www.standards.org.au/ > > but I don't know how "authoritative" this is. There is basically > nothing stopping any body here setting up a web site claiming to be > the countries leading non-government standards labs. I have a very > healthy skepticism of calibration laboratories in general > > NIST for example does have a ".gov" domain, which gives it a bit more > credibility than a typical .com. > NPL does not have a .gov, despite we use it in the UK. > > I found the The National Measurement Institute (NMI) > http://www.measurement.gov.au/ > > which is probably the one I am looking for. > > There are people on this list who I would trust to produce a list of > national standards labs more than I would from a Google search or > Wikipedia. > > There are a couple of things I am looking to find out - neither of > which are very time-nut related, but both are to some extent as they > they involve measuring the phase difference between two signals. > > 1) There was some work done somewhere (I believe an Australian lab), > which showed that calibrating a VNA with 1/8 and 3/8 offset shorts is > superior to a flush short and 1/4 spacer. Both give the desired 180 > degree difference in reflected signal, so at first thought they are > equivalent. I do know the reason the 1/8 and 3/8 are superior, but I'd > like to find a reference. > > 2) Who in Australia would be best at measuring the reflection > coefficient of a 50 Ohm termination? > > -- > Dr. David Kirkby G8WRB > http://www.vnacalibration.co.uk/ > Economical & accurate VNA calibration kits. > Coefficients available for HP, Agilent, Anritsu, Rohde & Schwarz and > VNWA network analyzers. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] National Standards labs worldwide - specifically Australia
I know of NPL in the UK, and NIST in the USA, but is anyone aware of other "standard labs". In particular I am looking for the Australian equivalent. A Google search came across "Standards Australia" http://www.standards.org.au/ but I don't know how "authoritative" this is. There is basically nothing stopping any body here setting up a web site claiming to be the countries leading non-government standards labs. I have a very healthy skepticism of calibration laboratories in general NIST for example does have a ".gov" domain, which gives it a bit more credibility than a typical .com. NPL does not have a .gov, despite we use it in the UK. I found the The National Measurement Institute (NMI) http://www.measurement.gov.au/ which is probably the one I am looking for. There are people on this list who I would trust to produce a list of national standards labs more than I would from a Google search or Wikipedia. There are a couple of things I am looking to find out - neither of which are very time-nut related, but both are to some extent as they they involve measuring the phase difference between two signals. 1) There was some work done somewhere (I believe an Australian lab), which showed that calibrating a VNA with 1/8 and 3/8 offset shorts is superior to a flush short and 1/4 spacer. Both give the desired 180 degree difference in reflected signal, so at first thought they are equivalent. I do know the reason the 1/8 and 3/8 are superior, but I'd like to find a reference. 2) Who in Australia would be best at measuring the reflection coefficient of a 50 Ohm termination? -- Dr. David Kirkby G8WRB http://www.vnacalibration.co.uk/ Economical & accurate VNA calibration kits. Coefficients available for HP, Agilent, Anritsu, Rohde & Schwarz and VNWA network analyzers. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
