Re: [time-nuts] No Echo
Robert Vassar wrote: In Apple Mail use View - Message - Long Headers. Thanks for the heads up. Here is the result for Robert's message: Received: (qmail 816 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2008 22:43:10 - Received: from 24.123.66.139 (HELO febo.com) (24.123.66.139) by mrelay3-1.free.fr with SMTP; 22 Feb 2008 22:43:10 - Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=febo.com ident=foobar) by febo.com with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from [EMAIL PROTECTED]) id 1JSgaj-rK-RH; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:42:05 -0500 Received: from linode.rob-vassar.com ([69.56.173.58] helo=mailhost.rob-vassar.com) by febo.com with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from [EMAIL PROTECTED]) id 1JSgaV-r8-KB for time-nuts@febo.com; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:42:02 -0500 Received: from [10.1.1.13] (adsl-71-145-128-63.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net [71.145.128.63]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailhost.rob-vassar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F58550297 for time-nuts@febo.com; Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:41:50 -0600 (CST) In my case, most of the delay comes from my ISP (free.fr). Neville, just do the same on your machine. Please note that the usual caveat (is your server time set correctly?) does not apply our case. Best regards Sylvain RICHARD ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] No Echo
Sylvain RICHARD said the following on 02/23/2008 08:59 AM: In my case, most of the delay comes from my ISP (free.fr). Neville, just do the same on your machine. Please note that the usual caveat (is your server time set correctly?) does not apply our case. There is also some queuing delay at meow.febo.com, also known as febo.com or www.febo.com. Normally, messages are processed pretty quickly -- I usually see time-nuts postings within 15 or 20 seconds after the message hits the list -- but there can be delays if the machine is busy, and particularly if there are several list messages being processed in a short time span. There's also a retry delay if message delivery from febo.com to the next hop fails. The delay is something like an exponential backoff that can extend out to hours between retries; the system keeps trying to deliver a message for up to 4 days. And, for what it's worth, meow.febo.com is a stratum 2 NTP server that gets its time from one of my 4 internal stratum 1 servers (one each with system oscillator and PPS clock from GPSDO, WWVB, LORAN, and Cesium). http://www.febo.com/time-freq/ntp/stats/clients/index.html shows its performance as measured by the Cesium-based monitoring server. John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] No Echo
On Feb 23, 2008, at 8:31 AM, John Ackermann N8UR wrote: Sylvain RICHARD said the following on 02/23/2008 08:59 AM: Please note that the usual caveat (is your server time set correctly?) does not apply our case. Just to tie off my end, the originating machine for that message runs NTP, at around stratum 4/5, but never really gets a good lock because it sleeps when idle. However, the first timestamp on the SMTP envelope is generated by linode.rob-vassar.com, which is a virtual server. It is a UML Linux instance that in effect runs as a large program on a huge shared Linux server in a co-lo facility. It relies on the host OS to provide time, and is incapable of setting or adjusting it's own time. The host is supposed to run NTP, but I have no visibility or insight into their practices/operation. All I can say is it appears correct, but that's kind of an amusing statement given the mailing list we're on. :-) This is one of my areas of interest... I'm working on getting a Xen virtualization machine running here at the house, and I'm curious to see how the hypervisor and each OS instance impacts NTP. I suspect it will not be pretty. There is also some queuing delay at meow.febo.com, also known as febo.com or www.febo.com. Normally, messages are processed pretty quickly -- I usually see time-nuts postings within 15 or 20 seconds after the message hits the list -- but there can be delays if the machine is busy, and particularly if there are several list messages being processed in a short time span. Exim does fairly well in that regard. I'm actually employed a mail server QA professional, I perform a type of testing known as stress test. I don't work with it directly, but I do know that Exim is used at some of the largest mail server complexes in the world. There's also a retry delay if message delivery from febo.com to the next hop fails. The delay is something like an exponential backoff that can extend out to hours between retries; the system keeps trying to deliver a message for up to 4 days. This is all highly adjustable. The typical default is 4 days, I'm not sure if that's an RFC spec or not. You can investigate queue performance locally using the exim -bp command. If you're unprivileged, it will only display your messages, if any. Cheers, Rob ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] No Echo
Quoth Robert Vassar at 2008-02-24 02:31... ... However, the first timestamp on the SMTP envelope is generated by linode.rob-vassar.com, which is a virtual server. It is a UML Linux instance that in effect runs as a large program on a huge shared Linux server in a co-lo facility. It relies on the host OS to provide time, and is incapable of setting or adjusting it's own time. The host is supposed to run NTP, but I have no visibility or insight into their practices/operation. All I can say is it appears correct, but that's kind of an amusing statement given the mailing list we're on. :-) Interesting. I run all my public, Internet-facing, operations on a pair of Linodes (one production, the other test/backup) at Hurricane Electric (Fremont, CA) and The Planet (Dallas, TX). I'd sort of assumed that any commercial hosting operation would be referenced to an on-site Stratum 1 - but then I do make a lot of silly assumptions, based on my perfect world scenario. Part of the reason for setting up a GPS-based server here (my home office) is to get the time on these machines closer to what it is on my Linodes. I'll try to reach the Man Himself at Linode by IRC and will report back. Cheers M -- Matthew Smith Smiffytech - Technology Consulting Web Application Development Business: http://www.smiffytech.com/ Personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] No Echo
In Apple Mail use View - Message - Long Headers. FWIW Here's the relevant section on Sylvain's reply: Received: from febo.com (meow.febo.com [24.123.66.139]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailhost.rob-vassar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF0105033B for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 16:44:23 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=febo.com ident=foobar) by febo.com with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from time-nuts- [EMAIL PROTECTED]) id 1JQ9Hw-0002Hi-LQ; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 17:44:12 -0500 Received: from smtp8-g19.free.fr ([212.27.42.65]) by febo.com with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from [EMAIL PROTECTED]) id 1JQ9Hn-0002HP- Nh for time-nuts@febo.com; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 17:44:10 -0500 Received: from smtp8-g19.free.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp8- g19.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAA1117F543 for time- [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 23:44:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from [82.229.71.1] (sylvainr.dyndns.org [82.229.71.1]) by smtp8-g19.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A79C17F520 for time- [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Fri, 15 Feb 2008 23:44:02 +0100 (CET) It would appear there was an overall delay of 21 seconds in this example. Cheers, Rob On Feb 15, 2008, at 4:44 PM, Sylvain RICHARD wrote: Neville Michie wrote: Sorry for the double mailing, I find it very disconcerting to not have my contributions sent back to me. I mail a response, but it seems not to have been sent, or there is a big delay. When I go to the archives I find it was sent but I did not get a copy. Even when I list myself under Cc. cheers, Neville Michie I suggest you read the headers of the messages you receive from the list. You seem to be using Apple Mail, so I cannot give precise instructions. Best regards Sylvain RICHARD ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] No Echo
Neville Michie said the following on 02/15/2008 05:14 PM: Sorry for the double mailing, I find it very disconcerting to not have my contributions sent back to me. I mail a response, but it seems not to have been sent, or there is a big delay. When I go to the archives I find it was sent but I did not get a copy. Even when I list myself under Cc. cheers, Neville Michie Normally, mail flows through the server pretty quickly, but remember: (a) there are over 500 subscribers to the list now, and it does take some time to process that many messages, particularly if there are several messages sent in a short time; and (b) mail delays can occur at other places along the way, such as your ISP -- if mail can't be delivered on the first try for whatever reason, there's a backoff interval between retries, so a modest length outage can turn into a somewhat longer delay in incoming mail. Yr SysAdmin, John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
