Re: [time-nuts] Orbital time-delayed angular momentum phasing....???!!
Well, the proper phasing is what focuses the beam. When you have only one knob to turn, you can only optimize for one thing. Didier KO4BB Michael Baker wrote: >Time-nutters-- > >Didier Juges asked: > > What does that do to the focussing properties > > of the dish? > > >I have seen several descriptions of how the dish >needs to be shaped in order to develop the orbital >time-delayed angular momentum signal and still >achieve an integral focus point. I am not sure that >I can describe it, but as I understand it, the dish >is not just split and bent into a cork-screw, but that >the surface of the dish is also continuously shaped so >as to provide a good focus It is just that the >signal striking parts of the dish which are increasingly >displaced along the axis of the bore-sight are time >delayed more or less with respect to other surfaces >of the dish. The only way I can see for this to work is >for the dish surface to deviate from a true parabolic >shape incrementally as each particular area is displaced >closer or further away from the focal point. It is a >little hard to visualize and a lot harder to find the >right words to adequately describe! > >Mike Baker >--- > > > > > > > > > > > > > >___ >time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >To unsubscribe, go to >https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >and follow the instructions there. -- Sent from my Motorola Droid Razr phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Orbital time-delayed angular momentum phasing....???!!
On 07/20/2012 04:23 AM, Michael Baker wrote: Time-nutters-- Didier Juges asked: > What does that do to the focussing properties > of the dish? I have seen several descriptions of how the dish needs to be shaped in order to develop the orbital time-delayed angular momentum signal and still achieve an integral focus point. I am not sure that I can describe it, but as I understand it, the dish is not just split and bent into a cork-screw, but that the surface of the dish is also continuously shaped so as to provide a good focus It is just that the signal striking parts of the dish which are increasingly displaced along the axis of the bore-sight are time delayed more or less with respect to other surfaces of the dish. The only way I can see for this to work is for the dish surface to deviate from a true parabolic shape incrementally as each particular area is displaced closer or further away from the focal point. It is a little hard to visualize and a lot harder to find the right words to adequately describe! Rather, for each line of the center, it will have the parabolic shape for a parabol located at that distance, it's just that this distance changes with the angle. The vector sum for the twisted wavefront will be a flat wavefront in the focus, but flat wavefronts will be dispersed away from the center... as if they where diffused (which they are). Makes sense now. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Orbital time-delayed angular momentum phasing....???!!
Time-nutters-- Didier Juges asked: > What does that do to the focussing properties > of the dish? I have seen several descriptions of how the dish needs to be shaped in order to develop the orbital time-delayed angular momentum signal and still achieve an integral focus point. I am not sure that I can describe it, but as I understand it, the dish is not just split and bent into a cork-screw, but that the surface of the dish is also continuously shaped so as to provide a good focus It is just that the signal striking parts of the dish which are increasingly displaced along the axis of the bore-sight are time delayed more or less with respect to other surfaces of the dish. The only way I can see for this to work is for the dish surface to deviate from a true parabolic shape incrementally as each particular area is displaced closer or further away from the focal point. It is a little hard to visualize and a lot harder to find the right words to adequately describe! Mike Baker --- ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Orbital time-delayed angular momentum phasing....???!!
What does that do to the focussing properties of the dish? Didier KO4BB Michael Baker wrote: >Timenutters-- > >Along the lines of splitting time into small increments, there >is an interesting article in the May 2012 issue of the >IEEE Spectrum Journal. > >It describes experiments with what I am calling "cork-screw >time-shift phasing modulation" or "orbital time-delayed angular >momentum phasing" for lack of a better description of the >process. This is not the same as circular-polarization of a >radiated signal. > >Visualize a 4-ft dia parabolic reflector which has been cut >(sliced) in a straight line from any arbitrary point on its outer >edge to its center.Then, at the outer lip of the reflector >surface, pull one side of the cut about a foot forward of the >other side of the cut. The separation is greatest at the edge >of the dish, gradually becoming less and less as the cut >approaches the center of the dish. > >The concept is that RF energy from the feed progressively >strikes different areas of the dish slightly ahead (time-wise) >from RF energy that strikes other parts of the dish. Because >the surface of the dish resembles a cork-screw the signal >from the dish has elements that are time-delayed with >respect to other parts. Accordingly, data elements can be >incorporated into the signal which have sightly different >time-delay angular momentum properties. Again, the folks >working on this insist that this is not the same as circular >polarity of the radiated signal such as is obtained with a >helix antenna. > >At the receive end, the process is reversed, producing a >signal which when demodulated can contain extra levels >of data modulation superimposed on it. > >The article points out that there are skeptics of the process >who say that this same modulation procedure can be done >with other methods although the modulation and demodulation >process would be much more complex. > >The orbital angular momentum of photons in the optical >realm has been extensively studied, although applying these >principles to RF is something new. > >Mike Baker >-- > > > > >___ >time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >To unsubscribe, go to >https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >and follow the instructions there. -- Sent from my Motorola Droid Razr phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Orbital time-delayed angular momentum phasing....???!!
On 07/17/2012 11:32 PM, Azelio Boriani wrote: Maybe: the experiment was made in March... Anyway, as usual, first I commented and then read the article and, yes, I was missing something but it is not so clear IMO. They say to have used 2 Yagi antennas at the receiver side and 1 Yagi and 1 modified parabolic dish at the transmitter. Then by measuring the phase you can separate the two signals. The phase of what is not clear: the carrier? The data? Why phase? The angular momentum translates in a phase rotation? Like adding some delay? Here another experiment with light: http://www.nature.com/nphoton/journal/v6/n7/full/nphoton.2012.138.html If you look it up on Wikipedia you find some more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_angular_momentum_of_light Anyway, this is heading of into the vast fields of off-topicness. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Orbital time-delayed angular momentum phasing....???!!
Maybe: the experiment was made in March... Anyway, as usual, first I commented and then read the article and, yes, I was missing something but it is not so clear IMO. They say to have used 2 Yagi antennas at the receiver side and 1 Yagi and 1 modified parabolic dish at the transmitter. Then by measuring the phase you can separate the two signals. The phase of what is not clear: the carrier? The data? Why phase? The angular momentum translates in a phase rotation? Like adding some delay? Here another experiment with light: http://www.nature.com/nphoton/journal/v6/n7/full/nphoton.2012.138.html On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 9:44 PM, Don Latham wrote: > Are we sure it wasn't the April issue? > Isn't this just phase modulation? > > Azelio Boriani > > To exploit an angular momentum modulation we need a demodulator able to > > recognize that angular momentum... nowadays our demodulators cannot go > > beyond amplitude, phase and their combination. Maybe I'm missing > > something... > > > > On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 6:59 PM, Michael Baker > > wrote: > > > >> Timenutters-- > >> > >> Along the lines of splitting time into small increments, there > >> is an interesting article in the May 2012 issue of the > >> IEEE Spectrum Journal. > >> > >> It describes experiments with what I am calling "cork-screw > >> time-shift phasing modulation" or "orbital time-delayed angular > >> momentum phasing" for lack of a better description of the > >> process. This is not the same as circular-polarization of a > >> radiated signal. > >> > >> Visualize a 4-ft dia parabolic reflector which has been cut > >> (sliced) in a straight line from any arbitrary point on its outer > >> edge to its center.Then, at the outer lip of the reflector > >> surface, pull one side of the cut about a foot forward of the > >> other side of the cut. The separation is greatest at the edge > >> of the dish, gradually becoming less and less as the cut > >> approaches the center of the dish. > >> > >> The concept is that RF energy from the feed progressively > >> strikes different areas of the dish slightly ahead (time-wise) > >> from RF energy that strikes other parts of the dish. Because > >> the surface of the dish resembles a cork-screw the signal > >> from the dish has elements that are time-delayed with > >> respect to other parts. Accordingly, data elements can be > >> incorporated into the signal which have sightly different > >> time-delay angular momentum properties. Again, the folks > >> working on this insist that this is not the same as circular > >> polarity of the radiated signal such as is obtained with a > >> helix antenna. > >> > >> At the receive end, the process is reversed, producing a > >> signal which when demodulated can contain extra levels > >> of data modulation superimposed on it. > >> > >> The article points out that there are skeptics of the process > >> who say that this same modulation procedure can be done > >> with other methods although the modulation and demodulation > >> process would be much more complex. > >> > >> The orbital angular momentum of photons in the optical > >> realm has been extensively studied, although applying these > >> principles to RF is something new. > >> > >> Mike Baker > >> -- > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to > >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> and follow the instructions there. > >> > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > > > -- > "Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument > are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind." > R. Bacon > "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it." > Ghost in the Shell > > > Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL > Six Mile Systems LLP > 17850 Six Mile Road > POB 134 > Huson, MT, 59846 > VOX 406-626-4304 > www.lightningforensics.com > www.sixmilesystems.com > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Orbital time-delayed angular momentum phasing....???!!
Are we sure it wasn't the April issue? Isn't this just phase modulation? Azelio Boriani > To exploit an angular momentum modulation we need a demodulator able to > recognize that angular momentum... nowadays our demodulators cannot go > beyond amplitude, phase and their combination. Maybe I'm missing > something... > > On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 6:59 PM, Michael Baker > wrote: > >> Timenutters-- >> >> Along the lines of splitting time into small increments, there >> is an interesting article in the May 2012 issue of the >> IEEE Spectrum Journal. >> >> It describes experiments with what I am calling "cork-screw >> time-shift phasing modulation" or "orbital time-delayed angular >> momentum phasing" for lack of a better description of the >> process. This is not the same as circular-polarization of a >> radiated signal. >> >> Visualize a 4-ft dia parabolic reflector which has been cut >> (sliced) in a straight line from any arbitrary point on its outer >> edge to its center.Then, at the outer lip of the reflector >> surface, pull one side of the cut about a foot forward of the >> other side of the cut. The separation is greatest at the edge >> of the dish, gradually becoming less and less as the cut >> approaches the center of the dish. >> >> The concept is that RF energy from the feed progressively >> strikes different areas of the dish slightly ahead (time-wise) >> from RF energy that strikes other parts of the dish. Because >> the surface of the dish resembles a cork-screw the signal >> from the dish has elements that are time-delayed with >> respect to other parts. Accordingly, data elements can be >> incorporated into the signal which have sightly different >> time-delay angular momentum properties. Again, the folks >> working on this insist that this is not the same as circular >> polarity of the radiated signal such as is obtained with a >> helix antenna. >> >> At the receive end, the process is reversed, producing a >> signal which when demodulated can contain extra levels >> of data modulation superimposed on it. >> >> The article points out that there are skeptics of the process >> who say that this same modulation procedure can be done >> with other methods although the modulation and demodulation >> process would be much more complex. >> >> The orbital angular momentum of photons in the optical >> realm has been extensively studied, although applying these >> principles to RF is something new. >> >> Mike Baker >> -- >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > -- "Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind." R. Bacon "If you don't know what it is, don't poke it." Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Orbital time-delayed angular momentum phasing....???!!
To exploit an angular momentum modulation we need a demodulator able to recognize that angular momentum... nowadays our demodulators cannot go beyond amplitude, phase and their combination. Maybe I'm missing something... On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 6:59 PM, Michael Baker wrote: > Timenutters-- > > Along the lines of splitting time into small increments, there > is an interesting article in the May 2012 issue of the > IEEE Spectrum Journal. > > It describes experiments with what I am calling "cork-screw > time-shift phasing modulation" or "orbital time-delayed angular > momentum phasing" for lack of a better description of the > process. This is not the same as circular-polarization of a > radiated signal. > > Visualize a 4-ft dia parabolic reflector which has been cut > (sliced) in a straight line from any arbitrary point on its outer > edge to its center.Then, at the outer lip of the reflector > surface, pull one side of the cut about a foot forward of the > other side of the cut. The separation is greatest at the edge > of the dish, gradually becoming less and less as the cut > approaches the center of the dish. > > The concept is that RF energy from the feed progressively > strikes different areas of the dish slightly ahead (time-wise) > from RF energy that strikes other parts of the dish. Because > the surface of the dish resembles a cork-screw the signal > from the dish has elements that are time-delayed with > respect to other parts. Accordingly, data elements can be > incorporated into the signal which have sightly different > time-delay angular momentum properties. Again, the folks > working on this insist that this is not the same as circular > polarity of the radiated signal such as is obtained with a > helix antenna. > > At the receive end, the process is reversed, producing a > signal which when demodulated can contain extra levels > of data modulation superimposed on it. > > The article points out that there are skeptics of the process > who say that this same modulation procedure can be done > with other methods although the modulation and demodulation > process would be much more complex. > > The orbital angular momentum of photons in the optical > realm has been extensively studied, although applying these > principles to RF is something new. > > Mike Baker > -- > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Orbital time-delayed angular momentum phasing....???!!
Timenutters-- Along the lines of splitting time into small increments, there is an interesting article in the May 2012 issue of the IEEE Spectrum Journal. It describes experiments with what I am calling "cork-screw time-shift phasing modulation" or "orbital time-delayed angular momentum phasing" for lack of a better description of the process. This is not the same as circular-polarization of a radiated signal. Visualize a 4-ft dia parabolic reflector which has been cut (sliced) in a straight line from any arbitrary point on its outer edge to its center.Then, at the outer lip of the reflector surface, pull one side of the cut about a foot forward of the other side of the cut. The separation is greatest at the edge of the dish, gradually becoming less and less as the cut approaches the center of the dish. The concept is that RF energy from the feed progressively strikes different areas of the dish slightly ahead (time-wise) from RF energy that strikes other parts of the dish. Because the surface of the dish resembles a cork-screw the signal from the dish has elements that are time-delayed with respect to other parts. Accordingly, data elements can be incorporated into the signal which have sightly different time-delay angular momentum properties. Again, the folks working on this insist that this is not the same as circular polarity of the radiated signal such as is obtained with a helix antenna. At the receive end, the process is reversed, producing a signal which when demodulated can contain extra levels of data modulation superimposed on it. The article points out that there are skeptics of the process who say that this same modulation procedure can be done with other methods although the modulation and demodulation process would be much more complex. The orbital angular momentum of photons in the optical realm has been extensively studied, although applying these principles to RF is something new. Mike Baker -- ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
