Re: [time-nuts] Serial port / Mouse issue (was mentioned in"Thunderbolt Monitor")
Hal Murray wrote: step...@tompsett.net said: FTDI devices with their device driver should remember the COM port they have been assigned on an individual system even if they get plugged into a different port/hub, and this greatly reduces reconfiguration effort if you change any USB connections - Other manufacturer's devices have a tendency to use a new COM port number each time they are plugged into a different physical USB port connected to the same computer. The USB protocol has provisions for each device to provide a SerialNumber. That lets the OS connect them up at the appropriate logical name no matter which physical port they are plugged into. They have been common on disks and thumb drives for a long time. My printer has one. So does my scope. Most low cost USB serial adapters don't (or didn't) have a useful serial number. (Or maybe the Linux drivers don't use it, but I suspect that's done at a higher level so it should work for serial if it works at all.) I have some FTDI adapters that produce useful serial numbers. usb 3-1: SerialNumber: A4003UAg usb 5-2: SerialNumber: A4001h2X I'm pretty sure I have other FTDI ones without a serial number. On the FTDI website there's a (free) utility called FTProg which can reprogram the FTDI device. You can set current limit, invert data lines, change description strings & serial numbers. You can even set the serial number to be fixed for a number of similar FTDI devices so that they will all adopt the same Com port #, which can be useful, too. Mike ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Serial port / Mouse issue (was mentioned in"Thunderbolt Monitor")
The situation with the FTDI chips is rather complicated - the early ones had an optional external serial EEPROM that you could use to change the device defaults - this was mostly used for changing the VID, PID and device description string but if you put a serial number in there it's reported to the driver - so if you don't get a serial number then it either means that the EEPROM isn't fitted or that it hasn't been programmed. On a lot of the more modern chips, the EEPROM (or "MTP memory" in FTDI speak) is built into the device and hence is always available - but may not have a serial number stored in it. If you have a device that has the EEPROM installed but no serial number you can set one yourself using the FTDI Mprog or FT_Prog software. The Prolific chips also have support for a serial number, but I don't think I've ever seen a device that implements it - my guess is that this is because the external EEPROM needed costs nearly as much as a PL2303 does, and those Prolific chips tend to end up in price sensitive applications. On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 4:50 AM, Hal Murray wrote: > > step...@tompsett.net said: > > FTDI devices with their device driver should remember the COM port they > > have been assigned on an individual system even if they get plugged into > a > > different port/hub, and this greatly reduces reconfiguration effort if > you > > change any USB connections - Other manufacturer's devices have a > tendency > > to use a new COM port number each time they are plugged into a different > > physical USB port connected to the same computer. > > The USB protocol has provisions for each device to provide a SerialNumber. > That lets the OS connect them up at the appropriate logical name no matter > which physical port they are plugged into. They have been common on disks > and thumb drives for a long time. My printer has one. So does my scope. > > Most low cost USB serial adapters don't (or didn't) have a useful serial > number. (Or maybe the Linux drivers don't use it, but I suspect that's > done > at a higher level so it should work for serial if it works at all.) > > I have some FTDI adapters that produce useful serial numbers. >usb 3-1: SerialNumber: A4003UAg >usb 5-2: SerialNumber: A4001h2X > I'm pretty sure I have other FTDI ones without a serial number. > > I don't think I've seen a useful serial number on any Prolific gizmos. My > collection includes lots of older gear so my sample may be biased and/or > things could have changed. > > It might be helpful to collect a list of which gear from which sellers > do/don't have useful serial numbers. > > With Linux, the udev stuff will let you setup a /dev/xxx alias when it > sees a > particular serial number. I'll say more if anybody wants. > > > > -- > These are my opinions. I hate spam. > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Serial port / Mouse issue (was mentioned in"Thunderbolt Monitor")
step...@tompsett.net said: > FTDI devices with their device driver should remember the COM port they > have been assigned on an individual system even if they get plugged into a > different port/hub, and this greatly reduces reconfiguration effort if you > change any USB connections - Other manufacturer's devices have a tendency > to use a new COM port number each time they are plugged into a different > physical USB port connected to the same computer. The USB protocol has provisions for each device to provide a SerialNumber. That lets the OS connect them up at the appropriate logical name no matter which physical port they are plugged into. They have been common on disks and thumb drives for a long time. My printer has one. So does my scope. Most low cost USB serial adapters don't (or didn't) have a useful serial number. (Or maybe the Linux drivers don't use it, but I suspect that's done at a higher level so it should work for serial if it works at all.) I have some FTDI adapters that produce useful serial numbers. usb 3-1: SerialNumber: A4003UAg usb 5-2: SerialNumber: A4001h2X I'm pretty sure I have other FTDI ones without a serial number. I don't think I've seen a useful serial number on any Prolific gizmos. My collection includes lots of older gear so my sample may be biased and/or things could have changed. It might be helpful to collect a list of which gear from which sellers do/don't have useful serial numbers. With Linux, the udev stuff will let you setup a /dev/xxx alias when it sees a particular serial number. I'll say more if anybody wants. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Serial port / Mouse issue (was mentioned in"Thunderbolt Monitor")
Tom, agreed by no means a perfect solution but one that does work well in practice if all you want is the serial communications for a moderate number of connections (I'm currently up to COM25). If you need precision timing then you need an alternative solution to USB. The real underlying problem is that Microsoft assumes that any communications device gratuitously supplying data at boot time, is a mouse, without an easy/reliable method of disabling this behaviour. FTDI devices with their device driver should remember the COM port they have been assigned on an individual system even if they get plugged into a different port/hub, and this greatly reduces reconfiguration effort if you change any USB connections - Other manufacturer's devices have a tendency to use a new COM port number each time they are plugged into a different physical USB port connected to the same computer. If you need a large number of serial connections from a single system, I think you should look at RS232-Ethernet terminal/communications servers. The timing problem will be even worse than a locally connected USB device. On 27/01/2013 12:18, Tom Van Baak wrote: Hi Stephen, Your work-around is one often used. But it's not a clean solution. For example, it is not possible to disable 'Serial Enumerator' until you first know the com port number and have regained control of your bouncing-mouse-crazy machine. This requires that you physically remove the plug in order to use the device manager to hunt down the port in question. This cannot be done remotely. It cannot be done without a human present to pull USB connectors in and out. It cannot be done on a headless or embedded system. It doesn't scale well if there are dozens of USB ports or dozens of machines. In my experience it also doesn't work reliably over months and years worth of crashes and reboots; eventually the system finds a way to reset the PnP configuration and then all the USB ports need the work-around again. What I'm searching for is a clean, robust way to solve the problem. The goal is that an end-user can just plug in a fast talking serial timing gizmo and it just works all the time, every time, especially the first time, without any kind of human intervention. /tvb - Original Message - From: "Stephen Tompsett" To: Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 1:13 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Serial port / Mouse issue (was mentioned in"Thunderbolt Monitor") A method that does work (for me) on Windows XP and Windows 7 to tame the wild mouse. 1. Use a FTDI USB to serial port converter 2. Disable 'Serial Enumerator' in the advanced device settings properties. I've used both single port adapters based on FT232 chips and 4 port FT4232 devices. N.B. This option does not appear to be available for standard COM ports, or USB to Serial devices from other manufacturers. On 27/01/2013 06:42, David J Taylor wrote: -Original Message- From: Sarah White [] Whatever works for you though I guess. I was just explaining the officially supported method *shrugs* = It seems from Tom's comments that the various fixes don't work for everyone. I count myself lucky that I've not needed any fixes for either my Win-7/64 and my Win-8/64 PCs. Win-7/64 is from a Sure Electronics evaluation board running at the default 9600 baud with several sentences, and Win-8/64 from a Garmin GPS 18x LVC at 38400 baud, emitting just $GPRMC if I recall correctly. I wasn't originally aware of the more recent Microsoft article, not having needed it myself, so thanks for the pointer. I hope the information we both presented will be helpful to someone. Cheers, David -- Stephen Tompsett -- Stephen Tompsett ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Serial port / Mouse issue (was mentioned in"Thunderbolt Monitor")
A method that does work (for me) on Windows XP and Windows 7 to tame the wild mouse. 1. Use a FTDI USB to serial port converter 2. Disable 'Serial Enumerator' in the advanced device settings properties. I've used both single port adapters based on FT232 chips and 4 port FT4232 devices. N.B. This option does not appear to be available for standard COM ports, or USB to Serial devices from other manufacturers. On 27/01/2013 06:42, David J Taylor wrote: -Original Message- From: Sarah White [] Whatever works for you though I guess. I was just explaining the officially supported method *shrugs* = It seems from Tom's comments that the various fixes don't work for everyone. I count myself lucky that I've not needed any fixes for either my Win-7/64 and my Win-8/64 PCs. Win-7/64 is from a Sure Electronics evaluation board running at the default 9600 baud with several sentences, and Win-8/64 from a Garmin GPS 18x LVC at 38400 baud, emitting just $GPRMC if I recall correctly. I wasn't originally aware of the more recent Microsoft article, not having needed it myself, so thanks for the pointer. I hope the information we both presented will be helpful to someone. Cheers, David -- Stephen Tompsett ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Serial port / Mouse issue (was mentioned in"Thunderbolt Monitor")
-Original Message- From: Sarah White [] Whatever works for you though I guess. I was just explaining the officially supported method *shrugs* = It seems from Tom's comments that the various fixes don't work for everyone. I count myself lucky that I've not needed any fixes for either my Win-7/64 and my Win-8/64 PCs. Win-7/64 is from a Sure Electronics evaluation board running at the default 9600 baud with several sentences, and Win-8/64 from a Garmin GPS 18x LVC at 38400 baud, emitting just $GPRMC if I recall correctly. I wasn't originally aware of the more recent Microsoft article, not having needed it myself, so thanks for the pointer. I hope the information we both presented will be helpful to someone. Cheers, David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Serial port / Mouse issue (was mentioned in"Thunderbolt Monitor")
>> http://www.gpsmap.net/GarminHints.html#GPSR_ComputerMouse David -- that particular "solution" does not work in many cases. > Shortened URL: http://goo.gl/xFcSc Sarah -- that solution also doesn't work in many cases. Read the entire 3 pages of frustrated comments that follow the so-called "solution" to the problem (the start value resets to 3). All -- I've never seen a robust solution to the issue of rapid serial data on a Windows NT/XP/Vista/7 machine. It's not just GPS; any serial telemetry device from thermometer to frequency counter to time interval analyzer suffers the same fate. If any of you have a 100% workable solution please send it to me *off-line*. If I'm convinced it works, I'll post the one true solution here. I realize there are a number of work-around hacks that sometimes work, or work for a while. My goal is a single action a windows user can perform that will then permanently prevent any and all future serial / PnP / USB GPS-like devices from being wrongly interpreted as a mouse for the life of the machine. Thanks, /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Serial port / Mouse issue (was mentioned in"Thunderbolt Monitor")
On 1/25/2013 1:43 AM, David J Taylor wrote: > From: Sarah White > [complex instructions snipped] > --Sarah > > P.S. sorry to double-post like this. > === > > Sara, > > It's far simpler to go into the Device Manger and disable the spurious > device, as described here: > > http://www.gpsmap.net/GarminHints.html#GPSR_ComputerMouse > > No need to edit boot.ini (obsolete in any case), no need to edit the > registry. By the way, on a test Windows-8 system the GPS wasn't > detected as a serial mouse, so possibly Microsoft have improved the > mouse detection code! > > Cheers, > David Beg your pardon? 1) Your comment seems to suggest a misunderstanding. I wasn't advocating any editing of boot.ini in the first place. ...Boot.ini doesn't even exist anymore, so I wasn't suggesting that, as it's s an outdated practice, and the official workaround is the one I was trying to share... 2) At the bottom of the section you just linked, it says: See also the Microsoft Knowledge Base Article # 283063, "Serial Device May Be Detected as a Serial Mouse in Windows 2000". The referenced knowledge base article, 283063: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/283063 Title: Serial Device May Be Detected as a Serial Mouse in Windows 2000 ^That workaround is for EVEN OLDER version of windows. --snip-- APPLIES TO Microsoft Windows 2000 Service Pack 1 Microsoft Windows 2000 Service Pack 2 Microsoft Windows 2000 Advanced Server Microsoft Windows 2000 Advanced Server Microsoft Windows 2000 Service Pack 1 Microsoft Windows 2000 Service Pack 2 --snip-- If you "disable the offending device" in device manager, the automatic "plug & play" can, and often DOES just re-install a second version of this "mouse" after running windows update. Second opinion about the approach I was recommending: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-hardware/windows-7-recognized-usb-gps-as-a-serial-mouse-in/0c3f0d94-6181-4a43-9e90-bcea8a21415d Shortened URL: http://goo.gl/xFcSc Note the similarity of official instructions, written by: Samhrutha G S - Microsoft Support. --snip-- i. Click on start ii.In the search box, type in regedit iii. Registry editor windows opens iv. Navigate to the location: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\sermouse --snip-- Whatever works for you though I guess. I was just explaining the officially supported method *shrugs* ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Serial port / Mouse issue (was mentioned in"Thunderbolt Monitor")
Panasonic has a registry hive to fix the psychomouse issue on toughbooks with integrated gps use the Panasonic.ca site much better organized than the us site Sent from my iPhone On Jan 25, 2013, at 7:12 AM, Arthur Dent wrote: > Besides the previous mentioned Time-Nuts reference in this thread > to the so-called "psychomouse" problem on November 1, 2010 > there was a thread on November 29, 2011 entitled "Unplug T-bolt > before booting up...??" that had most of the information covered here. > > Although this problem has been known for years I still haven't made > the change to the laptop I use for testing Thunderbolts and have > gotten used to the occasional surprise of watching the mouse cursor > dart all over the screen. ;-) > > -Arthur > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Serial port / Mouse issue (was mentioned in"Thunderbolt Monitor")
Besides the previous mentioned Time-Nuts reference in this thread to the so-called "psychomouse" problem on November 1, 2010 there was a thread on November 29, 2011 entitled "Unplug T-bolt before booting up...??" that had most of the information covered here. Although this problem has been known for years I still haven't made the change to the laptop I use for testing Thunderbolts and have gotten used to the occasional surprise of watching the mouse cursor dart all over the screen. ;-) -Arthur ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Serial port / Mouse issue (was mentioned in"Thunderbolt Monitor")
From: Sarah White [complex instructions snipped] --Sarah P.S. sorry to double-post like this. === Sara, It's far simpler to go into the Device Manger and disable the spurious device, as described here: http://www.gpsmap.net/GarminHints.html#GPSR_ComputerMouse No need to edit boot.ini (obsolete in any case), no need to edit the registry. By the way, on a test Windows-8 system the GPS wasn't detected as a serial mouse, so possibly Microsoft have improved the mouse detection code! Cheers, David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Serial port / Mouse issue (was mentioned in "Thunderbolt Monitor")
(quotes) NOTE: If you boot Windows with your ThunderBolt connected to the Com port, Windows will think it is a serial mouse and grab the port. It can lead to some interesting Windows behavior as the T-Bolt outputs data. > Easy fix. Add the following to your "Boot.ini" file. Obviously, the "x" > stands for the COM port you are using. > > NoSerialMice:COMx > (end quotes) I'm not sure who typed the above text, the quote style was hard to understand... Might've been some combination of Joe Gray, John Lofgren, and/or someone who signs as mike? Anyway... Here's my $0.02: Windows Vista / 7 doesn't use "boot.ini" ... do this instead: Click on start --> In the search box, type in regedit Registry editor windows opens... Navigate to the location: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE --> SYSTEM --> CurrentControlSet --> Services --> sermouse In the right hand, you'll see stuff like: (default) DisplayName etc. etc. etc. There should be a "dword (32bit) value" titled: "start" Set the value of this to: 0004 If you do not see "start" use the following steps: Right click on the (white) blank space (below the default, displayname, etc.) After right click to get context menu, click "New" ... a sub-menu will expand: Select the option for: "dword 32-bit value" Now, give this value the name "start" Right click to select "modify" It should have the value: 0004 Restart the computer You're done :) The mouse will no longer freak out, and your GPS (timing mode, TSIP, NMEA, or otherwise) or other RS-232 device will now work normally and not be detected as mouse, make cursor jump strangely, etc. Hope someone finds this useful, Sarah ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Serial port / Mouse issue (was mentioned in "Thunderbolt Monitor")
On 1/24/2013 11:07 PM, Sarah White wrote: > (quotes) > > NOTE: If you boot Windows with your ThunderBolt connected to the Com > port, Windows will think it is a serial mouse and grab the port. It > can lead to some interesting Windows behavior as the T-Bolt outputs > data. > >> Easy fix. Add the following to your "Boot.ini" file. Obviously, the "x" >> stands for the COM port you are using. >> >> NoSerialMice:COMx >> > (end quotes) > > I'm not sure who typed the above text, the quote style was hard to > understand... Might've been some combination of Joe Gray, John Lofgren, > and/or someone who signs as mike? > > Anyway... Here's my $0.02: > > Windows Vista / 7 doesn't use > > "boot.ini" > > ... do this instead: > > Click on start --> In the search box, type in regedit > Registry editor windows opens... Navigate to the location: > HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE > --> SYSTEM > --> CurrentControlSet > --> Services > --> sermouse > In the right hand, you'll see stuff like: > > (default) > DisplayName > etc. etc. etc. > > There should be a "dword (32bit) value" titled: > > "start" > > Set the value of this to: 0004 > > If you do not see "start" use the following steps: > > Right click on the (white) blank space > (below the default, displayname, etc.) > > After right click to get context menu, click "New" > ... a sub-menu will expand: > Select the option for: > "dword 32-bit value" > > Now, give this value the name "start" > > Right click to select "modify" > > It should have the value: 0004 > > Restart the computer > > You're done :) > > The mouse will no longer freak out, and your GPS (timing mode, TSIP, > NMEA, or otherwise) or other RS-232 device will now work normally and > not be detected as mouse, make cursor jump strangely, etc. > > Hope someone finds this useful, > Sarah > This info applies to windows XP as well: http://goo.gl/IqmDB Post number 6 they said: ---snip--- REGEDIT4 [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Servic es\sermouse] "Start"=dword:0004 there should be no blank between Servic and es ---snip--- but uh... I never tested making a .reg file and "merge with registry" or whatever. I'm pretty sure some antivirus software gets cranky when it sees a .reg file, plus there's often a complication when people use notepad to create a file and the file ends up something.reg.txt or ... oh whatever, the same thing applies. winxp doesn't really use boot.ini either for this --Sarah P.S. sorry to double-post like this. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
