Re: [time-nuts] Timelab question

[Bob Stewart]

Hi Andrew,
Thanks for the heads up.  That seems to have done the trick!  If you don't 
mind, I'm sending you a query about something else off-list.
Bob 
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AE6RV.com

GFS GPSDO list:
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  From: Andrew Rodland <and...@cleverdomain.org>
 To: Bob Stewart <b...@evoria.net>; Discussion of precise time and frequency 
measurement <time-nuts@febo.com> 
 Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 12:18 AM
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Timelab question
   
On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Bob Stewart <b...@evoria.net> wrote:
> Thanks, John.  That will certainly get it to work as I expect it to.  I doubt 
> I'm the only one who's lost a dataset due to being distracted and hitting the 
> enter key to clear the dialog box.
>
> Wine is just a mess as far as Timelab is concerned.  Most of the time it 
> doesn't display the plot area.  I've pretty much given up on it.

This, at least, is easily fixed; use "winetricks gdiplus" to replace
Wine's GDI+ implementation with Microsoft's (the native DLL). Then all
the stuff that didn't draw before will work just fine. It does have a
few other little issues, but on the whole it works remarkably well for
me.


   
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Re: [time-nuts] Timelab question

[Andrew Rodland]

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Bob Stewart  wrote:
> Thanks, John.  That will certainly get it to work as I expect it to.  I doubt 
> I'm the only one who's lost a dataset due to being distracted and hitting the 
> enter key to clear the dialog box.
>
> Wine is just a mess as far as Timelab is concerned.  Most of the time it 
> doesn't display the plot area.  I've pretty much given up on it.

This, at least, is easily fixed; use "winetricks gdiplus" to replace
Wine's GDI+ implementation with Microsoft's (the native DLL). Then all
the stuff that didn't draw before will work just fine. It does have a
few other little issues, but on the whole it works remarkably well for
me.
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[time-nuts] Timelab question

[Mark Sims]

Yes, it should.  Heather can input from a serial/USB connection or TCP/IP.   
Your GPIB interface needs to stream data in a "talk-only" mode.

Currently my TIC reader can handle either time interval (period) data or time 
stamps.   It knows about TICC data with channel identifiers on the values and 
HP 5313x format (commas in the numbers, embedded statistics, and us / d flags), 
 or generic (untagged)  data.  I'm not currently handling data from more than 
one input device at a time or frequency data as input. 

 I need to add some code to handle potential phase wraps for time intervals / 
time stamps.  Also maybe support frequency input.

 Heather can process up to 4 channels of data and simultaneously calculates 
ADEV/HDEV/MDEV/TDEV for each channel.  You can switch the display / plots 
between the 4 adevs for a selected channel or a selected adev type for all four 
channels.

--

> Any chance that Lady Heather would support the HP5370A/B ? Does she support
HPIB in some way (or using the BeagleBone brain transplant and tcp).
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[time-nuts] Timelab question

[Mark Sims]

There are apparently companies out there that specialize in low volume 
semi-custom enclosures.  They are a lot like the cheap PCB manufacturers that 
we are now blessed with in their economies of scale.   I think the guy 
mentioned the price for this power supply enclosure was around $35 (BTW, it's a 
really nifty power supply.  There is a long thread on EEVBLOG covering its 
development.  It uses and Arduino Due for the processor.)

https://www.crowdsupply.com/envox/eez-h24005
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[time-nuts] Timelab question

[Mark Sims]

A nasty bug crawled into my ear last night and muttered something like:

"Put the TICC counter circuit, a 1/5/10/15 Mhz PICDIV divider, input squarer, 
terminator relay, etc on a module.Make a motherboard that 4-8 of those 
modules can plug into along with an ATMEGA processor.  Output the data via good 
ole RS-232 ... everybody can probably find a USB-Serial converter that works 
with their system... they may not be able to find a driver for a specific / 
custom USB device like an Ardunio USB port".  Oh, and put some footprints for a 
quality reference OCXO and some power regulators on the motherboard.

That damn little critter in my ear keeps burrowing deeper and closer to my 
frontal builditbellum...  I'm off to the store to see if I can find some bug 
spray before it gets there.

---

> For my own use, I'm also going to do a couple of 2U rack enclosures -- 
one to hold two TICCs operating independently, and another for the 
"megaTICC" -- four units slaved together to make an 8 channel counter
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Re: [time-nuts] Timelab question

[Paul Alfille]

Any chance that Lady Heather would support the HP5370A/B ? Does she support
HPIB in some way (or using the BeagleBone brain transplant and tcp).

Paul Alfille K1PHA

On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 6:35 PM, Mark Sims  wrote:

> At one time Timelab worked well for me under Wine.  It's been years since
> I tried it.
>
> I recently got in a TAPR TICC and am in the process of adding time
> interval counter support to Lady Heather.   It's not even remotely as nifty
> as Timelab (and never will be),  but it does run under Windows / Linux /
> macOS and FreeBSD.  It can calculate and plot ADEV/HDEV/MDEV/TDEV.  The
> code supports up to 4 simultaneous channels of TICC data (but the TICC is
> currently a 2 channel device).
>
> Besides the TICC it should work (single channel) with HP53xxx counters and
> counters that output time stamps or time intervals in "talk only" mode.
> There is the possibility of supporting more than one counter device...
> Heather can now handle up to 10 com devices and TCP/IP links.
>
> I plan to package up my TICC and a couple of TADD-2 Mini dividers with a
> RPI-3 and the 7" touchscreen display and an Osciiloquartz 8663 DOXCO to
> make a small ADEV analyzer box.
>
> --
>
> > Wine is just a mess as far as Timelab is concerned.  Most of the time it
> doesn't display the plot area.  I've pretty much given up on it.
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Re: [time-nuts] Timelab question

[Peter Vince]

On 21 February 2017 at 23:35, Mark Sims  wrote:

> ...
> I plan to package up my TICC and a couple of TADD-2 Mini dividers with a
> RPI-3 and the 7" touchscreen display and an Osciiloquartz 8663 DOXCO to
> make a small ADEV analyzer box.
>

Wow!  If you can persuade John and TAPR to produce that, I would be there
with my chequebook before the ink had dried on the web-page! :-)

 Peter
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[time-nuts] Timelab question

[Mark Sims]

At one time Timelab worked well for me under Wine.  It's been years since I 
tried it.

I recently got in a TAPR TICC and am in the process of adding time interval 
counter support to Lady Heather.   It's not even remotely as nifty as Timelab 
(and never will be),  but it does run under Windows / Linux / macOS and 
FreeBSD.  It can calculate and plot ADEV/HDEV/MDEV/TDEV.  The code supports up 
to 4 simultaneous channels of TICC data (but the TICC is currently a 2 channel 
device).  

Besides the TICC it should work (single channel) with HP53xxx counters and 
counters that output time stamps or time intervals in "talk only" mode. There 
is the possibility of supporting more than one counter device...  Heather can 
now handle up to 10 com devices and TCP/IP links.

I plan to package up my TICC and a couple of TADD-2 Mini dividers with a RPI-3 
and the 7" touchscreen display and an Osciiloquartz 8663 DOXCO to make a small 
ADEV analyzer box.

--

> Wine is just a mess as far as Timelab is concerned.  Most of the time it 
> doesn't display the plot area.  I've pretty much given up on it.
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Re: [time-nuts] Timelab question

[Bob Stewart]

Thanks, John.  That will certainly get it to work as I expect it to.  I doubt 
I'm the only one who's lost a dataset due to being distracted and hitting the 
enter key to clear the dialog box.

Wine is just a mess as far as Timelab is concerned.  Most of the time it 
doesn't display the plot area.  I've pretty much given up on it.
Bob 


  From: John Miles <j...@miles.io>
 To: 'Bob Stewart' <b...@evoria.net>; 'Discussion of precise time and frequency 
measurement' <time-nuts@febo.com> 
 Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 3:56 PM
 Subject: RE: [time-nuts] Timelab question
   
> John,
> I apologize.  I was mistaken in my question.  Under wine it behaves poorly,
> but that's to be expected.  Under XP in a Virtual box, it works as you say.  
> The
> same in a real Win 10 box.  The problem is actually that I was expecting the
> "No" box to be checked, and to require the user to change it to "Yes" if he
> really wanted to exit.  So, if I press the Enter key to get rid of the dialog 
> box,
> the program exits.

I see what you mean.  I've got a couple of other minor tweak requests lined up 
for the next beta, so I'll add MB_DEFBUTTON2 to those prompts to keep that from 
happening.

If Wine is interpreting a second Escape keypress as 'Yes', then that's 
definitely a bug on their part.  Worth reporting to them if it still happens in 
the current version.

-- john
Miles Design LLC


   
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Re: [time-nuts] Timelab question

[John Miles]

> John,
> I apologize.  I was mistaken in my question.  Under wine it behaves poorly,
> but that's to be expected.  Under XP in a Virtual box, it works as you say.  
> The
> same in a real Win 10 box.  The problem is actually that I was expecting the
> "No" box to be checked, and to require the user to change it to "Yes" if he
> really wanted to exit.  So, if I press the Enter key to get rid of the dialog 
> box,
> the program exits.

I see what you mean.  I've got a couple of other minor tweak requests lined up 
for the next beta, so I'll add MB_DEFBUTTON2 to those prompts to keep that from 
happening.

If Wine is interpreting a second Escape keypress as 'Yes', then that's 
definitely a bug on their part.  Worth reporting to them if it still happens in 
the current version.

-- john
Miles Design LLC

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Re: [time-nuts] Timelab question

[Bob Stewart]

John,
I apologize.  I was mistaken in my question.  Under wine it behaves poorly, but 
that's to be expected.  Under XP in a Virtual box, it works as you say.  The 
same in a real Win 10 box.  The problem is actually that I was expecting the 
"No" box to be checked, and to require the user to change it to "Yes" if he 
really wanted to exit.  So, if I press the Enter key to get rid of the dialog 
box, the program exits.  

Bob 

  From: John Miles <j...@miles.io>
 To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' 
<time-nuts@febo.com> 
 Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 12:39 AM
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Timelab question
   
> Is there a way to change the escape key in Timelab so that it doesn't default
> to "yes"?  I love Timelab, but this is driving me nuts.  I hit the escape key 
> and
> it asks me if I really want to exit.  No, I don't!  So, I hit the escape key 
> and
> yes, it does exit.
> Bob

Hmm.  I can't repro this on Win7 x64 -- what version of Windows are you running?

If I hit Escape followed by Enter, it does exit, since 'Yes' is the default 
choice.  But hitting Escape twice doesn't do anything (and shouldn't).

-- john
Miles Design LLC

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Re: [time-nuts] Timelab question

[John Miles]

> Is there a way to change the escape key in Timelab so that it doesn't default
> to "yes"?  I love Timelab, but this is driving me nuts.  I hit the escape key 
> and
> it asks me if I really want to exit.  No, I don't!  So, I hit the escape key 
> and
> yes, it does exit.
> Bob

Hmm.  I can't repro this on Win7 x64 -- what version of Windows are you running?

If I hit Escape followed by Enter, it does exit, since 'Yes' is the default 
choice.  But hitting Escape twice doesn't do anything (and shouldn't).

-- john
Miles Design LLC

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[time-nuts] Timelab question

[Bob Stewart]

Is there a way to change the escape key in Timelab so that it doesn't default 
to "yes"?  I love Timelab, but this is driving me nuts.  I hit the escape key 
and it asks me if I really want to exit.  No, I don't!  So, I hit the escape 
key and yes, it does exit.
Bob
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Re: [time-nuts] timelab question

[jimlux]

On 9/8/16 5:10 PM, John Miles wrote:

I've got a file with counter values that are latched once per second,
with the count read from the latch every half second.  So, generally,
there are two identical values, then two different identical values,
etc.  But, of course, the routine that does the every half second
reading isn't perfect.. it could run fast or slow.

I want to process the count values in timelab, and I was wondering if it
knows to eliminate the duplicates, or if I write some code to strip the
dupes.


That's a pretty scary problem to have.  Are these frequency counts or TI 
readings?  You wouldn't normally see two identical TI readings in a row, but if 
they're frequency counts, how do you know for sure you're eliminating a 
duplicate reading, as opposed to one that just happened to be the same as the 
last?

There's nothing that TimeLab can do to help with this scenario, I'm afraid.  
Stable32 may be able to remove duplicate TI readings, but otherwise, yes, you'd 
need to write some kind of script to preprocess the sample file.



latched counts from a free running counter, so difference between 
successive different values is basically "frequency"...


Timelab worked perfectly after fooling around with my file parser that 
generates the data files.



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Re: [time-nuts] timelab question

[jimlux]

On 9/8/16 4:41 PM, Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

I think you are stuck with writing some code. I would want to make sure that in 
the odd
case two latched values were identical, they didn’t get tossed  (3 or 4 identical 
in a row => 2 not 1) ….



since they are latched counts from a free running counter, not 
frequencies, if I do a uniq first, then compute deltas between 
successive samples. (the counter is big enough to not rollover)



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Re: [time-nuts] timelab question

[John Miles]

> That's a pretty scary problem to have.  Are these frequency counts or TI
> readings?  You wouldn't normally see two identical TI readings in a row,

Actually, that's not even safe to assume for TI readings, depending on how your 
triggering works.  It would make sense to do whatever it takes to fix this at 
the source. 

-- john, KE5FX
Miles Design LLC


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Re: [time-nuts] timelab question

[John Miles]

> I've got a file with counter values that are latched once per second,
> with the count read from the latch every half second.  So, generally,
> there are two identical values, then two different identical values,
> etc.  But, of course, the routine that does the every half second
> reading isn't perfect.. it could run fast or slow.
> 
> I want to process the count values in timelab, and I was wondering if it
> knows to eliminate the duplicates, or if I write some code to strip the
> dupes.

That's a pretty scary problem to have.  Are these frequency counts or TI 
readings?  You wouldn't normally see two identical TI readings in a row, but if 
they're frequency counts, how do you know for sure you're eliminating a 
duplicate reading, as opposed to one that just happened to be the same as the 
last?

There's nothing that TimeLab can do to help with this scenario, I'm afraid.  
Stable32 may be able to remove duplicate TI readings, but otherwise, yes, you'd 
need to write some kind of script to preprocess the sample file.  

-- john, KE5FX
Miles Design LLC


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Re: [time-nuts] timelab question

[Bob Camp]

Hi

I think you are stuck with writing some code. I would want to make sure that in 
the odd
case two latched values were identical, they didn’t get tossed  (3 or 4 
identical in a row => 2 not 1) ….

Bob

> On Sep 8, 2016, at 6:13 PM, jimlux  wrote:
> 
> I've got a file with counter values that are latched once per second, with 
> the count read from the latch every half second.  So, generally, there are 
> two identical values, then two different identical values, etc.  But, of 
> course, the routine that does the every half second reading isn't perfect.. 
> it could run fast or slow.
> 
> I want to process the count values in timelab, and I was wondering if it 
> knows to eliminate the duplicates, or if I write some code to strip the dupes.
> 
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[time-nuts] timelab question

[jimlux]

I've got a file with counter values that are latched once per second, 
with the count read from the latch every half second.  So, generally, 
there are two identical values, then two different identical values, 
etc.  But, of course, the routine that does the every half second 
reading isn't perfect.. it could run fast or slow.


I want to process the count values in timelab, and I was wondering if it 
knows to eliminate the duplicates, or if I write some code to strip the 
dupes.


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