Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium
I tried to download the User Manual several times and it keeps bombing at about 90%. Must be busted, since I can download other manuals on the same site. I'll have to inquire about pricing. 73, Dick, W1KSZ -Original Message- From: Said Jackson saidj...@aol.com Sent: May 23, 2011 10:51 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Cc: time-nuts@febo.com time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium How about a GPSDO in 1 x 1 x 0.5 inch footprint? Check out the new MtronPTI M9107 and M9107 GPSDOs. Check out the press release about these on our Jackson Labs Tech website for more info.. Better than 4E-013 over 100K seconds typically, beats most RBs. Said Sent from my iPad On May 23, 2011, at 10:17, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: On 05/23/2011 03:07 PM, Dr. David Kirkby wrote: On 05/23/11 09:31 AM, Rob Kimberley wrote: Try http://www.symmetricom.com/media/files/downloads/product-datasheets/DS_SA.22 c.pdf Rob Kimberley Thank you. I don't have know what board area I have available, but I think think its going to be considerably less than that size. I think the only option will be to use an TCXO, which to be honest is good enough, but if there were small rubidiums, I would consider using one. But it seems they are not as small as I would have liked. What board size do you have, what stability do you really need? Can you fit a DIP14 package? Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium
Works for me, do you have a Mordrac in the way? From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Richard W. Solomon [w1...@earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 9:28 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium I tried to download the User Manual several times and it keeps bombing at about 90%. Must be busted, since I can download other manuals on the same site. I'll have to inquire about pricing. 73, Dick, W1KSZ -Original Message- From: Said Jackson saidj...@aol.com Sent: May 23, 2011 10:51 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Cc: time-nuts@febo.com time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium How about a GPSDO in 1 x 1 x 0.5 inch footprint? Check out the new MtronPTI M9107 and M9107 GPSDOs. Check out the press release about these on our Jackson Labs Tech website for more info.. Better than 4E-013 over 100K seconds typically, beats most RBs. Said Sent from my iPad On May 23, 2011, at 10:17, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: On 05/23/2011 03:07 PM, Dr. David Kirkby wrote: On 05/23/11 09:31 AM, Rob Kimberley wrote: Try http://www.symmetricom.com/media/files/downloads/product-datasheets/DS_SA.22 c.pdf Rob Kimberley Thank you. I don't have know what board area I have available, but I think think its going to be considerably less than that size. I think the only option will be to use an TCXO, which to be honest is good enough, but if there were small rubidiums, I would consider using one. But it seems they are not as small as I would have liked. What board size do you have, what stability do you really need? Can you fit a DIP14 package? Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium
Maybe he should just dial the firewall back or something. ;- From: David VanHorn d.vanh...@elec-solutions.com To: Richard W. Solomon w1...@earthlink.net; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:35 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium Works for me, do you have a Mordrac in the way? From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Richard W. Solomon [w1...@earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 9:28 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium I tried to download the User Manual several times and it keeps bombing at about 90%. Must be busted, since I can download other manuals on the same site. I'll have to inquire about pricing. 73, Dick, W1KSZ -Original Message- From: Said Jackson saidj...@aol.com Sent: May 23, 2011 10:51 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Cc: time-nuts@febo.com time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium How about a GPSDO in 1 x 1 x 0.5 inch footprint? Check out the new MtronPTI M9107 and M9107 GPSDOs. Check out the press release about these on our Jackson Labs Tech website for more info.. Better than 4E-013 over 100K seconds typically, beats most RBs. Said Sent from my iPad On May 23, 2011, at 10:17, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: On 05/23/2011 03:07 PM, Dr. David Kirkby wrote: On 05/23/11 09:31 AM, Rob Kimberley wrote: Try http://www.symmetricom.com/media/files/downloads/product-datasheets/DS_SA.22 c.pdf Rob Kimberley Thank you. I don't have know what board area I have available, but I think think its going to be considerably less than that size. I think the only option will be to use an TCXO, which to be honest is good enough, but if there were small rubidiums, I would consider using one. But it seems they are not as small as I would have liked. What board size do you have, what stability do you really need? Can you fit a DIP14 package? Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium
Problem solved ... Their website does not like Firefox, it downloaded fairly quickly using MS Exploder !! 73, Dick, W1KSZ -Original Message- From: Tijd Dingen tijddin...@yahoo.com Sent: May 24, 2011 9:41 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium Maybe he should just dial the firewall back or something. ;- From: David VanHorn d.vanh...@elec-solutions.com To: Richard W. Solomon w1...@earthlink.net; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 5:35 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium Works for me, do you have a Mordrac in the way? From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Richard W. Solomon [w1...@earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2011 9:28 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium I tried to download the User Manual several times and it keeps bombing at about 90%. Must be busted, since I can download other manuals on the same site. I'll have to inquire about pricing. 73, Dick, W1KSZ -Original Message- From: Said Jackson saidj...@aol.com Sent: May 23, 2011 10:51 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Cc: time-nuts@febo.com time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium How about a GPSDO in 1 x 1 x 0.5 inch footprint? Check out the new MtronPTI M9107 and M9107 GPSDOs. Check out the press release about these on our Jackson Labs Tech website for more info.. Better than 4E-013 over 100K seconds typically, beats most RBs. Said Sent from my iPad On May 23, 2011, at 10:17, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: On 05/23/2011 03:07 PM, Dr. David Kirkby wrote: On 05/23/11 09:31 AM, Rob Kimberley wrote: Try http://www.symmetricom.com/media/files/downloads/product-datasheets/DS_SA.22 c.pdf Rob Kimberley Thank you. I don't have know what board area I have available, but I think think its going to be considerably less than that size. I think the only option will be to use an TCXO, which to be honest is good enough, but if there were small rubidiums, I would consider using one. But it seems they are not as small as I would have liked. What board size do you have, what stability do you really need? Can you fit a DIP14 package? Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium
On 05/24/11 06:51 AM, Said Jackson wrote: How about a GPSDO in 1 x 1 x 0.5 inch footprint? Check out the new MtronPTI M9107 and M9107 GPSDOs. Check out the press release about these on our Jackson Labs Tech website for more info.. Better than 4E-013 over 100K seconds typically, beats most RBs. Said I don't want to rely on an external reference. I want to keep the unit self-contained. Once I determine the amount of space available, I'll look to see if its practical to fit an OCXO. I don't need huge accuracy with this. But if I'm going to fit something better than a crystal, I might as well do the best I can whilst not breaking the bank. Sent from my iPad Sent from my Sun Ultra 27. (Perhaps next time I'll send from a Sun T5240 or some other Sun, or even my laptop. I'll keep you informed of which!) Dave -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium
What's an Ultra 27? -Bob On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 11:47 AM, Dr. David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.netwrote: On 05/24/11 06:51 AM, Said Jackson wrote: How about a GPSDO in 1 x 1 x 0.5 inch footprint? Check out the new MtronPTI M9107 and M9107 GPSDOs. Check out the press release about these on our Jackson Labs Tech website for more info.. Better than 4E-013 over 100K seconds typically, beats most RBs. Said I don't want to rely on an external reference. I want to keep the unit self-contained. Once I determine the amount of space available, I'll look to see if its practical to fit an OCXO. I don't need huge accuracy with this. But if I'm going to fit something better than a crystal, I might as well do the best I can whilst not breaking the bank. Sent from my iPad Sent from my Sun Ultra 27. (Perhaps next time I'll send from a Sun T5240 or some other Sun, or even my laptop. I'll keep you informed of which!) Dave -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium
On 05/25/11 03:29 AM, Robert Darlington wrote: What's an Ultra 27? -Bob My posted ended in Sent from my Sun Ultra 27, in response to someone's post which had at the bottom Sent from my iPad. I'm sure if you are interested, it would not take take long to find out what a Sun Ultra 27 is. Dave On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 11:47 AM, Dr. David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.netwrote: On 05/24/11 06:51 AM, Said Jackson wrote: How about a GPSDO in 1 x 1 x 0.5 inch footprint? Check out the new MtronPTI M9107 and M9107 GPSDOs. Check out the press release about these on our Jackson Labs Tech website for more info.. Better than 4E-013 over 100K seconds typically, beats most RBs. Said I don't want to rely on an external reference. I want to keep the unit self-contained. Once I determine the amount of space available, I'll look to see if its practical to fit an OCXO. I don't need huge accuracy with this. But if I'm going to fit something better than a crystal, I might as well do the best I can whilst not breaking the bank. Sent from my iPad Sent from my Sun Ultra 27. (Perhaps next time I'll send from a Sun T5240 or some other Sun, or even my laptop. I'll keep you informed of which!) Dave -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium
I actually asked in jest, thinking there was no such beast and that it was a typo. I'm an old Sun guy, apparently too old to know about the new stuff. Looks like an expensive PC. On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 9:33 PM, Dr. David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.netwrote: On 05/25/11 03:29 AM, Robert Darlington wrote: What's an Ultra 27? -Bob My posted ended in Sent from my Sun Ultra 27, in response to someone's post which had at the bottom Sent from my iPad. I'm sure if you are interested, it would not take take long to find out what a Sun Ultra 27 is. Dave On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 11:47 AM, Dr. David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.netwrote: On 05/24/11 06:51 AM, Said Jackson wrote: How about a GPSDO in 1 x 1 x 0.5 inch footprint? Check out the new MtronPTI M9107 and M9107 GPSDOs. Check out the press release about these on our Jackson Labs Tech website for more info.. Better than 4E-013 over 100K seconds typically, beats most RBs. Said I don't want to rely on an external reference. I want to keep the unit self-contained. Once I determine the amount of space available, I'll look to see if its practical to fit an OCXO. I don't need huge accuracy with this. But if I'm going to fit something better than a crystal, I might as well do the best I can whilst not breaking the bank. Sent from my iPad Sent from my Sun Ultra 27. (Perhaps next time I'll send from a Sun T5240 or some other Sun, or even my laptop. I'll keep you informed of which!) Dave -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium
On 05/25/11 04:49 AM, Robert Darlington wrote: I actually asked in jest, thinking there was no such beast and that it was a typo. No, just a joke on my part. I don't know if Apple think it impresses people to know messages were sent from iPads or iPhones, but it seems to be how many are set up. I would hope one could disable it, but since I own neither I've never tried. I'm an old Sun guy, apparently too old to know about the new stuff. OK. I like the old Sun equipment. Most was built to a very high standard - far better than modern PCs. Looks like an expensive PC. It basically is, and it's not built to the same high standard as the older SPARC hardware, though it is pretty decent. Mine is pretty well specified * 3.33 GHz quad core Intel Xeon CPU * 12 GB RAM * 2 x 2 TB disks (mirrored) * 2 x 500 GB disks (mirrored) * NVIDIA Quadro FX 3800 graphics accelerator card I got the machine after some of my Sun hardware was damaged due to lightning. My insurers paid for it. I also have a range of Sun SPARC hardware here * Sun Blade 2000 * 2 x Sun Blade 1000 (one is not complete, so basically useless) * 1 x Netra T1. * 1 x Sun Ultra 60. The Sun Blade 2000 has a blown ethernet port on the motherboard, and is an insurance writeoff, after I got hit with lightning. Since the insurers left me with the machine and did not collect it, I stuck in a Gbit Ethernet card. But I don't use it much. I have access to a Sun T5240 if I need it, but that thing is really slow, despite it has 16 cores, 128 hardware threads and 32 GB RAM. To get any performance out of that machine you need to keep all the threads busy, which I gather is possible if it's running as a web server or database, but is useless for most scientific applications. Dave On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 9:33 PM, Dr. David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.netwrote: On 05/25/11 03:29 AM, Robert Darlington wrote: What's an Ultra 27? -Bob My posted ended in Sent from my Sun Ultra 27, in response to someone's post which had at the bottom Sent from my iPad. I'm sure if you are interested, it would not take take long to find out what a Sun Ultra 27 is. Dave On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 11:47 AM, Dr. David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.netwrote: On 05/24/11 06:51 AM, Said Jackson wrote: How about a GPSDO in 1 x 1 x 0.5 inch footprint? Check out the new MtronPTI M9107 and M9107 GPSDOs. Check out the press release about these on our Jackson Labs Tech website for more info.. Better than 4E-013 over 100K seconds typically, beats most RBs. Said I don't want to rely on an external reference. I want to keep the unit self-contained. Once I determine the amount of space available, I'll look to see if its practical to fit an OCXO. I don't need huge accuracy with this. But if I'm going to fit something better than a crystal, I might as well do the best I can whilst not breaking the bank. Sent from my iPad Sent from my Sun Ultra 27. (Perhaps next time I'll send from a Sun T5240 or some other Sun, or even my laptop. I'll keep you informed of which!) Dave -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium
Try http://www.symmetricom.com/media/files/downloads/product-datasheets/DS_SA.22 c.pdf Rob Kimberley -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Dr. David Kirkby Sent: 23 May 2011 9:20 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium What's the smallest rubidium source available? Something that can produce a 10 MHz output - not bothered about locking to GPS, just need it to be small. Dave -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium
How about a CSAC? Those pretty much are rubidium clocks, only with cesium vapor. -- john, KE5FX -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Rob Kimberley Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 1:32 AM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Subject: Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium Try http://www.symmetricom.com/media/files/downloads/product-datasheets/DS_SA.22 c.pdf Rob Kimberley -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Dr. David Kirkby Sent: 23 May 2011 9:20 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium What's the smallest rubidium source available? Something that can produce a 10 MHz output - not bothered about locking to GPS, just need it to be small. Dave -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium
I see that part of the hyperlink got missed on last message. Rob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Rob Kimberley Sent: 23 May 2011 9:32 AM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Subject: Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium Try http://www.symmetricom.com/media/files/downloads/product-datasheets/DS_SA.22 c.pdf Rob Kimberley -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Dr. David Kirkby Sent: 23 May 2011 9:20 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium What's the smallest rubidium source available? Something that can produce a 10 MHz output - not bothered about locking to GPS, just need it to be small. Dave -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium
David, Besides the Symmetricom SA22c unit which can be found here : http://www.symmetricom.com/products/frequency-references/rubidium-frequency-standard/SA22c/ There is also the Frequency Electronics Inc. unit FE-5650 which is very much the same size and can be found here : http://www.frequencyelectronics.com/rb_oscillators.html The SA22c is .91 high by 3.0x wide and 4.4x long. In contrast the FEI unit is 1.4 high by 3.03 square. So take your pick ! The SA22c has additional options that the FEI does not have like external 1pps sync input for connection to a GPS and RS232 communication port for enhanced data between the SA22c and your computer. I guess it depends upon what you need it for. BillWB6BNQ Dr. David Kirkby wrote: What's the smallest rubidium source available? Something that can produce a 10 MHz output - not bothered about locking to GPS, just need it to be small. Dave -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium
On 05/23/11 09:31 AM, Rob Kimberley wrote: Try http://www.symmetricom.com/media/files/downloads/product-datasheets/DS_SA.22 c.pdf Rob Kimberley Thank you. I don't have know what board area I have available, but I think think its going to be considerably less than that size. I think the only option will be to use an TCXO, which to be honest is good enough, but if there were small rubidiums, I would consider using one. But it seems they are not as small as I would have liked. -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium
I believe thats because RB and CS have cavities that essentially establish the operating size, because they work at a given frequency. You have to go to a different technology method to reduce its size, like the new Symmetricom CS oscillator. Still overall pretty darned amazing in size and power consumption. (Still waiting for the time-nuts offer of $100 each. Limited time offer call before midnight. Shipping and handling included) So at this time it would not be possible to equal the size or power of a typical TCXO these days. 1/4 dip stuff. Though we have given you answers you had not ever really stated what you needed to accomplish. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 9:07 AM, Dr. David Kirkby david.kir...@onetel.netwrote: On 05/23/11 09:31 AM, Rob Kimberley wrote: Try http://www.symmetricom.com/media/files/downloads/product-datasheets/DS_SA.22 c.pdf Rob Kimberley Thank you. I don't have know what board area I have available, but I think think its going to be considerably less than that size. I think the only option will be to use an TCXO, which to be honest is good enough, but if there were small rubidiums, I would consider using one. But it seems they are not as small as I would have liked. -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium
I couldn't resist commenting about how top posting annoys you. Interestingly, I have always top posted ever since my first email way, way back. Everyone else I dealt with in business did it that way. It wasn't until I got involved with groups like this, that it apparently became a problem. It always seemed logical to me to have the answers to a question at the top i.e. the most recent comment in the chain. No doubt I'll get a lot of replies both top and bottom about this... :-) RK -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Dr. David Kirkby Sent: 23 May 2011 2:07 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium On 05/23/11 09:31 AM, Rob Kimberley wrote: Try http://www.symmetricom.com/media/files/downloads/product-datasheets/DS _SA.22 c.pdf Rob Kimberley Thank you. I don't have know what board area I have available, but I think think its going to be considerably less than that size. I think the only option will be to use an TCXO, which to be honest is good enough, but if there were small rubidiums, I would consider using one. But it seems they are not as small as I would have liked. -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium
On 5/23/11 6:07 AM, Dr. David Kirkby wrote: On 05/23/11 09:31 AM, Rob Kimberley wrote: Try http://www.symmetricom.com/media/files/downloads/product-datasheets/DS_SA.22 c.pdf Rob Kimberley Thank you. I don't have know what board area I have available, but I think think its going to be considerably less than that size. I think the only option will be to use an TCXO, which to be honest is good enough, but if there were small rubidiums, I would consider using one. But it seems they are not as small as I would have liked. Depending on your actual needs/other stuff available in your device, a non-TCXO and a temperature sensor might do as well. The non-TC means that the crystal can be higher Q, so better close in phase noise, the temperature sensor means you can calibrate the variation with temperature (assuming your downstream application can work with knowledge of the frequency.. if you're trying to generate 10 MHz, then that doesn't help as much) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium
On 05/23/11 02:20 PM, paul swed wrote: I believe thats because RB and CS have cavities that essentially establish the operating size, because they work at a given frequency. That makes sense You have to go to a different technology method to reduce its size, like the new Symmetricom CS oscillator. Still overall pretty darned amazing in size and power consumption. (Still waiting for the time-nuts offer of $100 each. Limited time offer call before midnight. Shipping and handling included) So at this time it would not be possible to equal the size or power of a typical TCXO these days. 1/4 dip stuff. Though we have given you answers you had not ever really stated what you needed to accomplish. Regards Paul WB8TSL I've bought an amateur radio transceiver - Kenwood TS-940S. This has a 20 MHz crystal osciallator (not 10 as I stated before), but it was optionally available with a 20 MHz TCXO, called SO-1 which sat on a small (how small?) circuit board. But these TCXO's seem to be like rocking horse dung, so I wondered about putting my own TCXO on a board. Then the idea of perhaps using a rubidium hit me. Some enterprising sole is selling on eBay a circuit board which replaces the SO-1, and has a 10 MHz reference input. But of course that means you need to rely on having the external reference. Having it built in would be nice, but I don't think there's enough room. Perhaps an OCXO might be practical - better than a TCXO, but not as big as a rubidium. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium
Rob, I agree with you 100%, Top forever. Had K7MLR At 06:29 AM 5/23/2011, you wrote: I couldn't resist commenting about how top posting annoys you. Interestingly, I have always top posted ever since my first email way, way back. Everyone else I dealt with in business did it that way. It wasn't until I got involved with groups like this, that it apparently became a problem. It always seemed logical to me to have the answers to a question at the top i.e. the most recent comment in the chain. No doubt I'll get a lot of replies both top and bottom about this... :-) RK A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well. Peter Cooper, of Fermi Lab, says, Every experimentalist knows that the apparatus, or at least your understanding of it, is always at fault until demonstrated otherwise. He also says, Nature is really unmoved by what I, or anyone else, believes. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium
For what it is worth, I agree 100%. I have also been top posting for over 30 years. A lot of times when I open a thread, and, do not see anything but previous posts, I delete the whole thing. Why should I go all the way to the bottom to see what someone may have said, or, to even see if there is something there. Unfortunately, I probably miss out on some good info this way, but, I do not have the patience to sort through it all. If I have been following the threads then I know what has been said anyway. If I have not, the latest top reply might peak my interest. Another thing that really annoys me is when people comment inside of a previous post, about every paragraph/sentence or so. Most of the time it is difficult to tell what was the previous post and when the new response begins. Just put it all on top. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, EOZ Inc. 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell, NJ, 07731 732-886-5960 office 908-902-3831 cell -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Rob Kimberley Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 9:30 AM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Subject: Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium I couldn't resist commenting about how top posting annoys you. Interestingly, I have always top posted ever since my first email way, way back. Everyone else I dealt with in business did it that way. It wasn't until I got involved with groups like this, that it apparently became a problem. It always seemed logical to me to have the answers to a question at the top i.e. the most recent comment in the chain. No doubt I'll get a lot of replies both top and bottom about this... :-) RK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium
I also top post... Consider the Symmetricom model X72 Rb. I can fit 2 each in my shirt pocket. Some variants are programmable and spec'd for 12 VDC operation. I did have problems with one unit that had microphonics when used with a DEMI/N5AC microwave LO synthesizer in a DEMI 10 GHz transverter. For a 20 MHz reference used in a HF transceiver I would consider a ISO Temp TC/VCXO at 10 MHz and double it with suitable filtering. Provide a pot to easily net it as well as a additional 10/20 MHz output to feed the counter. The ISOTemps have been going for 30-50$, so it is a cost effective solution and it may be stable enough for any HF operation. If used with a transverter, you will still have to fight that LO drift. Unless it is synchronized with the 10/20 MHz reference. Stan, W1LECape CodFN41sr On 5/23/2011 11:36 AM, Mike Feher wrote: For what it is worth, I agree 100%. I have also been top posting for over 30 years. A lot of times when I open a thread, and, do not see anything but previous posts, I delete the whole thing. Why should I go all the way to the bottom to see what someone may have said, or, to even see if there is something there. Unfortunately, I probably miss out on some good info this way, but, I do not have the patience to sort through it all. If I have been following the threads then I know what has been said anyway. If I have not, the latest top reply might peak my interest. Another thing that really annoys me is when people comment inside of a previous post, about every paragraph/sentence or so. Most of the time it is difficult to tell what was the previous post and when the new response begins. Just put it all on top. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, EOZ Inc. 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell, NJ, 07731 732-886-5960 office 908-902-3831 cell -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Rob Kimberley Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 9:30 AM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Subject: Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium I couldn't resist commenting about how top posting annoys you. Interestingly, I have always top posted ever since my first email way, way back. Everyone else I dealt with in business did it that way. It wasn't until I got involved with groups like this, that it apparently became a problem. It always seemed logical to me to have the answers to a question at the top i.e. the most recent comment in the chain. No doubt I'll get a lot of replies both top and bottom about this... :-) RK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium
On 05/23/2011 03:07 PM, Dr. David Kirkby wrote: On 05/23/11 09:31 AM, Rob Kimberley wrote: Try http://www.symmetricom.com/media/files/downloads/product-datasheets/DS_SA.22 c.pdf Rob Kimberley Thank you. I don't have know what board area I have available, but I think think its going to be considerably less than that size. I think the only option will be to use an TCXO, which to be honest is good enough, but if there were small rubidiums, I would consider using one. But it seems they are not as small as I would have liked. What board size do you have, what stability do you really need? Can you fit a DIP14 package? Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium
Hi If you have the power for a rubidium, there are some pretty small OCXO's out there these days. The little guys will easily beat out a TCXO, but not their larger OCXO cousins. For small size, indeed a TCXO is going to be your choice, until it gets to big and you go to an XO. Bob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Dr. David Kirkby Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 9:07 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium On 05/23/11 09:31 AM, Rob Kimberley wrote: Try http://www.symmetricom.com/media/files/downloads/product-datasheets/DS_SA.22 c.pdf Rob Kimberley Thank you. I don't have know what board area I have available, but I think think its going to be considerably less than that size. I think the only option will be to use an TCXO, which to be honest is good enough, but if there were small rubidiums, I would consider using one. But it seems they are not as small as I would have liked. -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium
David, You should have said so in the first place. Unless you are sure that the reference oscillator is the base for all the generated frequencies, it would not make sense to install a Rb source in the radio. You are correct concerning most of the so-called higher stability options in that they are barely worth the price asked for them and only meet specs in a tightly controlled environment. As for the size, you would be better served using a high quality miniature oven controlled crystal oscillator (OCXO). A number of companies produce such items, with some having extremely good specs. If you do go that route, select one that has an electronic frequency control (EFC) port so you can have the option of external control if you want it. You would have to design and build your own phase locking circuit unless some company's oscillator offers that. However, do not expect that having a PERFECT reference oscillator precisely on 10 or 20 MHz will put you perfectly on frequency as you will be disappointed. In a fully DDS generated (all signals from a or multiple DDS's) radio scheme they only come CLOSE. You will never ever get right on because of the binary nature and resolution of the DDS. Especially with the older radios as the DDS resolution was lower than can be had these days. So it is a question of What is good enough for the intended product. In the Amateur radio world One hertz is considered the best basic step size. Many radios only displayed and used 10 hertz step size which can be easily had with a 28 bit DDS (a 0.1xx hertz error). Many of the most modern radios are only using a 32 bit DDS which translates into a 0.01xx hertz error. By the way, the error factor of the DDS is not consistent, again due to its binary nature. If you utilize the Analog Devices web site ADIsimDDS app you will see that the error offset is all over the map. The best that can be done is to make sure the error factor is outside the measurement frame by decade or more. Keep in mind that the clock frequency for the DDS determines the number of sampling points for the constructed signal. So as you climb higher in the frequency in relation to the clock of the DDS, the number of sampling points go down. Here is the URL for the Analog Devices simulator : http://designtools.analog.com/dtDDSWeb/dtDDSMain.asp 73BillWB6BNQ Dr. David Kirkby wrote: I've bought an amateur radio transceiver - Kenwood TS-940S. This has a 20 MHz crystal osciallator (not 10 as I stated before), but it was optionally available with a 20 MHz TCXO, called SO-1 which sat on a small (how small?) circuit board. But these TCXO's seem to be like rocking horse dung, so I wondered about putting my own TCXO on a board. Then the idea of perhaps using a rubidium hit me. Some enterprising sole is selling on eBay a circuit board which replaces the SO-1, and has a 10 MHz reference input. But of course that means you need to rely on having the external reference. Having it built in would be nice, but I don't think there's enough room. Perhaps an OCXO might be practical - better than a TCXO, but not as big as a rubidium. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium
To all, Evidently my link did not work. Curse those bastard WEB site designers with all modern embedded garbage. So you will have to go to the main page of Analog Devices at http://www.analog.com and select Tools, Software ? Simulation models from the bottom middle of the page. On the next page you need to select the product category and just below that select simulate a product. Then it will come up with a list, one of which is ADIsimDDS. Sorry about that ! BillWB6BNQ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium
On 05/23/11 06:17 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote: On 05/23/2011 03:07 PM, Dr. David Kirkby wrote: On 05/23/11 09:31 AM, Rob Kimberley wrote: Try http://www.symmetricom.com/media/files/downloads/product-datasheets/DS_SA.22 c.pdf Rob Kimberley Thank you. I don't have know what board area I have available, but I think think its going to be considerably less than that size. I think the only option will be to use an TCXO, which to be honest is good enough, but if there were small rubidiums, I would consider using one. But it seems they are not as small as I would have liked. What board size do you have, I don't actually know, as I don't have the transceiver yet. But given the board sold had basically a TCXO and not much else on it, its not going to be large enough for a rubidium. what stability do you really need? To be honest, a bog-standard crystal is probably just about good enough. There's not much point in going much more accurate. But an TCXO was offered as an option. Getting that would be a nice improvement, but they are hard to get. I suspect they would fetch as much as a rubidium due to their rarity. But if I'm going to design my own board and put on an osciallator, I might as well put a small ovened oscillator. Most of the hassle will be designing the circuit - the cost of the device is not going to be a major hassle. Give theres a wide range of volatages in the rig (including 28 V for the final PA transistors), fitting a small over should not present any big problems. Can you fit a DIP14 package? Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium
-Original Message- From: WB6BNQ wb6...@cox.net Sent: May 23, 2011 2:17 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium David, You should have said so in the first place. Unless you are sure that the reference oscillator is the base for all the generated frequencies, it would not make sense to install a Rb source in the radio. You are correct concerning most of the so-called higher stability options in that they are barely worth the price asked for them and only meet specs in a tightly controlled environment. For a lot of HF radios, the TCXO performance required is such that the actual frequency be within 20 Hz of the displayed frequency (that's the NTIA standard). 20Hz comes from empirical tests of how close the frequency needs to be to not require a clarifier for intelligible speech on SSB. (probably moderated, too, by what's easy and practical to do in a portable transceiver) (http://www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome/redbook/ed200801rev201009/M_9_10.pdf) bear in mind that that there's two radios in this whole stackup, because the transmitter has comparable frequency accuracy as the receiver. So the overall frequency uncertainty is on the order of 30 Hz (sqrt(2)*20 Hz). Hitting a 0.5 ppm accuracy (15Hz out of 30 MHz) is a fairly challenging spec to meet over a wide temperature range. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium
http://designtools.analog.com/dtDDSWeb/dtDDSMain.aspx That seems to work (don't drop the x on the end ;) regards, Fred From: WB6BNQ wb6...@cox.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 11:34 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium To all, Evidently my link did not work. Curse those bastard WEB site designers with all modern embedded garbage. So you will have to go to the main page of Analog Devices at http://www.analog.com and select Tools, Software ? Simulation models from the bottom middle of the page. On the next page you need to select the product category and just below that select simulate a product. Then it will come up with a list, one of which is ADIsimDDS. Sorry about that ! BillWB6BNQ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium
On 05/23/11 10:44 PM, Jim Lux wrote: -Original Message- From: WB6BNQwb6...@cox.net Sent: May 23, 2011 2:17 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium David, You should have said so in the first place. Unless you are sure that the reference oscillator is the base for all the generated frequencies, it would not make sense to install a Rb source in the radio. You are correct concerning most of the so-called higher stability options in that they are barely worth the price asked for them and only meet specs in a tightly controlled environment. I believe the reference is the best for all the frequencies that are used, so there would be some advantage in a rubidium, but I think they are going to be too big. I'd hard to know what size this is, but I'm guess very roughly I have about 25 x 25 mm. But that's only from looking at manual and comparing it to the size of a tuning knob!! The spec of the TCXO, that is a rare option (SO-1) is: Oscillator frequency: 20 MHz Frequency stability long term: +/- 10^-6 / year Temperature stability +/- 10^-7 (-10 to +50 deg C) Adjustment range +/- 60 Hz. Weight 25 g Output: more than 0 dBm into 50 Ohms. There's no way this will be used anywhere near -50 deg C. I should think the coldest it would ever get would be +10 deg C, and that would be unlikely. Looking at the service manual for this transceiver http://www.g8wrb.org/data/Kenwood/TS-940S/TS-940S_Service_Manual_revised_edition.pdf it appears one needs to remove about a dozen components from a PCB board if installing this option, then solder the TCXO in the place of those components. For a lot of HF radios, the TCXO performance required is such that the actual frequency be within 20 Hz of the displayed frequency (that's the NTIA standard). 20Hz comes from empirical tests of how close the frequency needs to be to not require a clarifier for intelligible speech on SSB. (probably moderated, too, by what's easy and practical to do in a portable transceiver) (http://www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome/redbook/ed200801rev201009/M_9_10.pdf) bear in mind that that there's two radios in this whole stackup, because the transmitter has comparable frequency accuracy as the receiver. So the overall frequency uncertainty is on the order of 30 Hz (sqrt(2)*20 Hz). Hitting a 0.5 ppm accuracy (15Hz out of 30 MHz) is a fairly challenging spec to meet over a wide temperature range. Bearing in mind this is going to be used at room temperature and since inside a piece of equipment it will be above room temperature, do you think achieving better than the above specs will be easy? I guess it should be. But whilst I'm putting one osciallator, I might as well put the best I can fit. I guess its only a matter of time before a 20 MHz oscillator with sine wave output comes up on eBay. Dave -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] smallest rubidium
How about a GPSDO in 1 x 1 x 0.5 inch footprint? Check out the new MtronPTI M9107 and M9107 GPSDOs. Check out the press release about these on our Jackson Labs Tech website for more info.. Better than 4E-013 over 100K seconds typically, beats most RBs. Said Sent from my iPad On May 23, 2011, at 10:17, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: On 05/23/2011 03:07 PM, Dr. David Kirkby wrote: On 05/23/11 09:31 AM, Rob Kimberley wrote: Try http://www.symmetricom.com/media/files/downloads/product-datasheets/DS_SA.22 c.pdf Rob Kimberley Thank you. I don't have know what board area I have available, but I think think its going to be considerably less than that size. I think the only option will be to use an TCXO, which to be honest is good enough, but if there were small rubidiums, I would consider using one. But it seems they are not as small as I would have liked. What board size do you have, what stability do you really need? Can you fit a DIP14 package? Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
