Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
For all those out there who don't have your own BPO 36 master clock, here is a youtube video that shows the detail of the Hipp toggle in action. The Hipp is the key to these clocks excellent time keeping. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmx5iy4qwhI Yes I know, the sound track IS horrible! But you can hear most of the ticks... Not my video, I hasten to add.. For more info on the Hipp toggle, just google and all will be revealed. DaveB, NZ - Original Message - From: Neville Michie namic...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 4:05 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem Another, maybe the original tape, was called 100 Miles per Hour Tape and was sold years after fabric covered aircraft wings went out of style as it was so universally useful. As the name suggests it was rated for repair of aircraft fabric to be used up to speeds of 100 MPH. cheers, Neville Michie PS. I have a type 36 post office clock running and it has a synchronising relay that forces the phase of the 30 second output pulses to the nearest 2 seconds, by rotating the count wheel which has a cardioid cam. At a fixed time every day this relay was energised from the central site to correct any phase creep in the clocks in the regional post offices. I have occasionally thought of linking it to a GPS time source. cheers, NM ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
Group, Looks like this subject has ended, so I'll summarize: Bruce Griffiths said the plastic has 12X the expansion coefficient of copper, so cold alone shouldn't have pulled the center pin. Now I wonder if the cold contraction pushed the insulation along the core wire and then pulled the pin when it warmed up. He also mentioned that some ROHS connections fail due to thermal cycling, but I used antique solder and wrench-clamp connectors. Tom Van Baak asked if the signal degraded or was cut off. I don't look at it all the time, so my first clue was the Holdover light on the receiver. GPScon gave me the holdover duration, accurate to 999 hours, then 1000+. Stan, W1LE, suggested a captive center pin connector, which I will try in April or May when the snow goes away. Thanks. Several people said 20 feet unsupported was too long, but I'm not gonna fill a 10 foot, 6 inch diameter pipe with foam. I'll get some light chain and individually tie the cables to the chain, then support the chain above the point where the cables turn into the 2 foot arms. Metric conversions are left as an exercise for the reader, as they are for me. Speaking of conversions, I grew up (since 1938) with movie credits that mentioned the Gaffer (head electrician). Last year I mentored students building a robot for a FIRST Robotics competition. The carpet on the field would be marked with red, black, and white gaffer's tape, which we got in 2 inch width from a theater supply place. Gaffer's tape is intended to hold down wires running across a set until the show closes. Where did Gaffa tape come from? Thanks to all who contributed. Bill Hawkins -Original Message- From: Stan W1LE Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 7:56 PM a couple of suggestions: 1. Use a captive center pin on the N male connector. for example, Kings Electronics Inc. N male, model # KN-59-176 for RG-214 coaxial cable, center pin is solder type and captive, will not move axially. Wrench clamp on the shield. Kings cage = 91836 mil spec: M39012/01-0005 a few bucks each 2. consider adding a foam in place insulation, inside the plastic pipe to support the coaxial cable. drill a 1/8 hole every few feet and squirt in the aerosol foam till it comes out of the hole. Go for the minimally expanding insulating foam you will find in Home Depot or Lowes. Stan, W1LEFn41srCape Cod ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
Bill Hawkins wrote: ... Speaking of conversions, I grew up (since 1938) with movie credits that mentioned the Gaffer (head electrician). Last year I mentored students building a robot for a FIRST Robotics competition. The carpet on the field would be marked with red, black, and white gaffer's tape, which we got in 2 inch width from a theater supply place. Gaffer's tape is intended to hold down wires running across a set until the show closes. Where did Gaffa tape come from? Probably from the same place as Duck tape. Human ears trying to make sense out of what they hear. -Chuck Harris ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
Actually it is duct tape. Used to air seal the metal joints in a metal duct work system for heat and AC. New building codes require a mastic paint be applied over all metal joints in the duct work system. I guess it is an energy conservation issue, so the processed air does not leak into unintended spaces. Stan,W1LE Chuck Harris wrote: Bill Hawkins wrote: ... Speaking of conversions, I grew up (since 1938) with movie credits that mentioned the Gaffer (head electrician). Last year I mentored students building a robot for a FIRST Robotics competition. The carpet on the field would be marked with red, black, and white gaffer's tape, which we got in 2 inch width from a theater supply place. Gaffer's tape is intended to hold down wires running across a set until the show closes. Where did Gaffa tape come from? Probably from the same place as Duck tape. Human ears trying to make sense out of what they hear. -Chuck Harris ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
I know. Did you read my post? -Chuck Harris Stan W1LE wrote: Actually it is duct tape. Used to air seal the metal joints in a metal duct work system for heat and AC. New building codes require a mastic paint be applied over all metal joints in the duct work system. I guess it is an energy conservation issue, so the processed air does not leak into unintended spaces. Stan,W1LE Chuck Harris wrote: Bill Hawkins wrote: ... Speaking of conversions, I grew up (since 1938) with movie credits that mentioned the Gaffer (head electrician). Last year I mentored students building a robot for a FIRST Robotics competition. The carpet on the field would be marked with red, black, and white gaffer's tape, which we got in 2 inch width from a theater supply place. Gaffer's tape is intended to hold down wires running across a set until the show closes. Where did Gaffa tape come from? Probably from the same place as Duck tape. Human ears trying to make sense out of what they hear. -Chuck Harris ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
In message 49aef43d.3010...@verizon.net, Stan W1LE writes: Actually it is duct tape. No it is not. Duct tape is made to stay stuck and tight on ventilation ducts in a wide range of temperatures and humidities, it is not meant to come off again, ever, and if you try, it will leave a sticky band of adhesive on the substrate. Secondary characteristics is that it is nonedible for any insect or rodent and I belive: non-flammable. Gaffer's tape is meant to stay in comparatively benign environmentals, but only until you want it to come off again, at which time a gentle but firm pull at the right angle will make it peel off, taking with it all the adhesive material. Gaffers tape will generally not work near or below the freezing point, som variants are tolerant of high temperatures (for spot-lights etc). If you hold down cables with duct tape during a production in a building which is a national heritage site, you will never be allowed through the door again. If you use gaffer's tape, they will have no reason for complaint. And yes, it's much more expensive. Poul-Henning -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
In message 48e1c1775b054c2e9d30e7782a40a...@cyrus, Bill Hawkins writes: Several people said 20 feet unsupported was too long, but I'm not gonna fill a 10 foot, 6 inch diameter pipe with foam. I'll get some light chain [...] Over here you can buy a clothes-line which is actually a nylon covered un-spun steel-wire. I use that for such cableruns because it is easy to string it up and it stays taught all year. Tie the coax to it with nylon strips every feet. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
Gaffa tape is Gaffer's tape. From the production electricians in film and television studios. It's usually fabric and flat colors to blend in with sets and floors. It is usually stronger than duct tape, tears easier, and costs more. The good stuff also leaves less residue behind when removed, if not left on too long. Mike -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Stan W1LE Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 1:36 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem Actually it is duct tape. Used to air seal the metal joints in a metal duct work system for heat and AC. New building codes require a mastic paint be applied over all metal joints in the duct work system. I guess it is an energy conservation issue, so the processed air does not leak into unintended spaces. Stan,W1LE Chuck Harris wrote: Bill Hawkins wrote: ... Speaking of conversions, I grew up (since 1938) with movie credits that mentioned the Gaffer (head electrician). Last year I mentored students building a robot for a FIRST Robotics competition. The carpet on the field would be marked with red, black, and white gaffer's tape, which we got in 2 inch width from a theater supply place. Gaffer's tape is intended to hold down wires running across a set until the show closes. Where did Gaffa tape come from? Probably from the same place as Duck tape. Human ears trying to make sense out of what they hear. -Chuck Harris ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi- bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi- bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
Another, maybe the original tape, was called 100 Miles per Hour Tape and was sold years after fabric covered aircraft wings went out of style as it was so universally useful. As the name suggests it was rated for repair of aircraft fabric to be used up to speeds of 100 MPH. cheers, Neville Michie PS. I have a type 36 post office clock running and it has a synchronising relay that forces the phase of the 30 second output pulses to the nearest 2 seconds, by rotating the count wheel which has a cardioid cam. At a fixed time every day this relay was energised from the central site to correct any phase creep in the clocks in the regional post offices. I have occasionally thought of linking it to a GPS time source. cheers, NM On 05/03/2009, at 9:38 AM, Michael Scheliga wrote: Gaffa tape is Gaffer's tape. From the production electricians in film and television studios. It's usually fabric and flat colors to blend in with sets and floors. It is usually stronger than duct tape, tears easier, and costs more. The good stuff also leaves less residue behind when removed, if not left on too long. Mike -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Stan W1LE Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 1:36 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem Actually it is duct tape. Used to air seal the metal joints in a metal duct work system for heat and AC. New building codes require a mastic paint be applied over all metal joints in the duct work system. I guess it is an energy conservation issue, so the processed air does not leak into unintended spaces. Stan,W1LE Chuck Harris wrote: Bill Hawkins wrote: ... Speaking of conversions, I grew up (since 1938) with movie credits that mentioned the Gaffer (head electrician). Last year I mentored students building a robot for a FIRST Robotics competition. The carpet on the field would be marked with red, black, and white gaffer's tape, which we got in 2 inch width from a theater supply place. Gaffer's tape is intended to hold down wires running across a set until the show closes. Where did Gaffa tape come from? Probably from the same place as Duck tape. Human ears trying to make sense out of what they hear. -Chuck Harris ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi- bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi- bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
2009/3/5 Neville Michie namic...@gmail.com: PS. I have a type 36 post office clock running and it has a synchronising relay that forces the phase of the 30 second output pulses to the nearest 2 seconds, by rotating the count wheel which has a cardioid cam. At a fixed time every day this relay was energised from the central site to correct any phase creep in the clocks in the regional post offices. I have occasionally thought of linking it to a GPS time source. That's an interesting idea and I wonder if it's easier to correct the clock at intervals than closely synchronise it. Food for thought, thanks. 73, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD JAKDTTNW Omnium finis imminet ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
2009/3/2 Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org: Steve Rooke skrev: Gaffa tape the cable to the supporting pipe with a small drip loop into the connector. No. The glue of Gaffa tape ages. Also, it is not very nice to the cable. Buy decent gaffa tape, not the duct tape variant :) Sorry, I agree with you really Magnus. I was more indicating that the cable does need to be supported by being attached to the mast structure than have all that weight on the poor connector. Gaffa is great for temporary work where is is tough and sticks well, and is easy to tear-down an installation. Using black wide cable ties for the antenna cable would be an idea and be easy to take down too. 73, Steve Gaffa should not be used for permanent installations. For temporary installations I prefer using a strap (no the narrow plastic straps, but the wither weave-type, not sure what they are called in english) running at least one turn around the cable. Dropping cable that way helps. For longer runs the cable should be strapped to some fixed structure or a steel wire and done in such a way that the cable is not fully stretched, so that each strap-point actually takes the force of the cable downto the next strap-point. This way the cable does not get to carry heavy loads, which it is not designed for, the dielectrum does not get a firm grip around the center wire... In general Gaffa should be used conservative and only for short periods of time as removing the glue becomes an issue and even more annoying as it has dried out and hardend to the surface but lost the grip to the actual tape... which makes the grip brittle. There's too many sensible people on this forum :) Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD JAKDTTNW Omnium finis imminet ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
Gaffa tape the cable to the supporting pipe with a small drip loop into the connector. That assumes the cable gets to the outside of the pipe. I was interested in the case where the antenna sits directly on the top of the pipe (not a bracket off to the side). Some antennas are setup with the coax connector on the inside of a place with threads where the pipe attaches. The coax has to go up the inside of the mounting pipe. You can also use a bracket, but it's setup for the inside-the-pipe approach. Here is a drawing: http://www.synergy-gps.com/images/stories/pdf/anttiming3000_tn888.pdf For a setup like that, I don't see how to get tape or anything else inside the pipe, so the coax will end up hanging from the connector. So the question is how much coax can you hang from a connector? Clearly a foot or 3 is reasonable because you need that much for a drip loop. How about 6 ft? 20 ft? -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
Hi Hal, No, not as far as I know, and it is only intended to happen for a short (stub mast) distancce. The method I would use is to cable cleat two or three pieces of cord (use two or three cleats in series over 2 or 3 inches of jacket) on the jacket/sheath before dropping the cable down the tube. Support the weight of the cable on theseit will depend on your fixings etcyou may need to drill small exit holes or slots for the cord exit. Fasten the cords to take the weight, keeping the strain off the N-type brain clamp. Messy but essential. The used of adhesive shrink-sleeeving on the N-type body and the sheath my also give some extra support. The sheath and braid will stretch inder the weight whereas the inner and inner dielectic will not, this is what causes the pin whidrawal. I believe. How much cable will a connector support??none in my opinion!! The creep will just take longer! Practically maybe a couple of feet, it depends on the stiffness of the sheath material. Another thought is that if you are using heavy cable like RG-8, force it back up the mast an tie-wap it at the bottom as well. This wont work with RG-58 though. Richard, crimp connetxors dont solve the problem either because the weight is supported on the braid. They need adhesive shrink as well to provide jacket to connector-body support even in normal applications. I have repaired a lot of crimp connector systems that have failed this way, just under flexing and not any weight. I think it is what gives the system a bad name in some quarters. Alan G3NYK. - Original Message - From: Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 11:50 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem Take the cable down and remake it, add strain relief, and all will probably be well. Is there a standard trick for how to do the strain relief when the antenna is setup to have the cable go up the inside of the mounting pipe? - Thanks everybody for all the roof/antenna hints from a week ago. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
2009/3/2 Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net: Gaffa tape the cable to the supporting pipe with a small drip loop into the connector. That assumes the cable gets to the outside of the pipe. I was interested in the case where the antenna sits directly on the top of the pipe (not a bracket off to the side). Find a rubber cork, or something which will not deteriorate, that is a tight fit for the inside of the pipe. Drill a hole in it to pass the coax through. Leave enough coax out of the cork to attach to the antenna and then press the cork into the pipe. The short length of coax at the top will not be a strain on the connector and the action of squeezing the cork into the pipe will further grip the coax to stop it travelling downwards. You can also add a cable tie round the cable just above the cork to stop it slipping down. Just an idea. 73, Steve Some antennas are setup with the coax connector on the inside of a place with threads where the pipe attaches. The coax has to go up the inside of the mounting pipe. You can also use a bracket, but it's setup for the inside-the-pipe approach. Here is a drawing: http://www.synergy-gps.com/images/stories/pdf/anttiming3000_tn888.pdf For a setup like that, I don't see how to get tape or anything else inside the pipe, so the coax will end up hanging from the connector. So the question is how much coax can you hang from a connector? Clearly a foot or 3 is reasonable because you need that much for a drip loop. How about 6 ft? 20 ft? -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD JAKDTTNW Omnium finis imminet ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
Just as a followup, here's some other ideas: When I worked for British Telecom (it was called Post Office Telephones then) as an apprentice I woked on undergroud work for a while. Telephone cables were lead sheathed and the joints were made in a shoth lenght of large diameter lead pipe. A lot of these joints were lead soldered but some were sealed by a compressible gland at each end. The gland was made of a thick disk of black rubber which would fit snugly but freely inside the joint sleeve. Either side of the rubber disk was a brass blate slightly smaller in diameter than the rubber. There were holes through the gland to allow the cables to enter and this was a snugh but free fit on the cable, and with the brass plate holes being a bit larger than the cable holes. The two brass plates were held either side of the rubber by brass bolts which went through clearance holes on the outside and were threaded in the rear brass plate. The idea is that the cables went through the glands were they were jointed. The joint then went into the joint sleeve and the gland was pushed just inside the sleeve. The bolts were then tightened to compress the rubber gland which then made a tight mechanical and waterproof (hopefully) seal to the joint. You could do something similar with a gland fitted into the antenna support pole which would grip the cable firmly in place but allow it to be removed easily. A bit of engineering, I know, but an idea. Another option would be to find a piece of bamboo or doweling which would fit inside the antenna post along with the cable. The cable could then the cable tied to this stick and run up the inside of the antenna support with the base of the stick fixed to the bottom of the antenna pole. And while I'm at it, how about some builders expanding foam. You could hold the cable in the pipe and squirt the foam into the pipe where it would expand to grip the sides of the pole and the cable as well. A cable tie round the coax should stop the cable falling down in the event of shrinkage. Bit messy though. As the pipe being mentioned was plastic plumbing supplies, you could find a flat piece of the same plastic and using a hole cutting saw, cut out a disk with a tight fit into the pipe. Make the hole in the middle to fit the cable and glue it a few inches down the pipe with the pipe sealing glue for plumbing. Just need to put a cable tie on the coax for cable relief to stop it dropping down and attach it to the antenna. You could also find a wood plug the same size as the inside of the antenna pipe. Make a hole through the middle , lower it into the pipe, drill a small hole through the side of the pipe and secure the wood plug with a short wood screw. Just need to use the same old cable tie strain relief again. Just some random ideas, sorry for taking you time on an off topic subject. 73, Steve. 2009/3/3 Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com: 2009/3/2 Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net: Gaffa tape the cable to the supporting pipe with a small drip loop into the connector. That assumes the cable gets to the outside of the pipe. I was interested in the case where the antenna sits directly on the top of the pipe (not a bracket off to the side). Find a rubber cork, or something which will not deteriorate, that is a tight fit for the inside of the pipe. Drill a hole in it to pass the coax through. Leave enough coax out of the cork to attach to the antenna and then press the cork into the pipe. The short length of coax at the top will not be a strain on the connector and the action of squeezing the cork into the pipe will further grip the coax to stop it travelling downwards. You can also add a cable tie round the cable just above the cork to stop it slipping down. Just an idea. 73, Steve Some antennas are setup with the coax connector on the inside of a place with threads where the pipe attaches. The coax has to go up the inside of the mounting pipe. You can also use a bracket, but it's setup for the inside-the-pipe approach. Here is a drawing: http://www.synergy-gps.com/images/stories/pdf/anttiming3000_tn888.pdf For a setup like that, I don't see how to get tape or anything else inside the pipe, so the coax will end up hanging from the connector. So the question is how much coax can you hang from a connector? Clearly a foot or 3 is reasonable because you need that much for a drip loop. How about 6 ft? 20 ft? -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD JAKDTTNW Omnium finis imminet -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD JAKDTTNW Omnium finis imminet ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
Quote: Some antennas are setup with the coax connector on the inside of a place with threads where the pipe attaches. The coax has to go up the inside of the mounting pipe. Just a data point. I have installed numerous 2 way radio antennas over the years that use this mounting method. As far as I can recall I have never used a mast longer than 5 feet and I have never had any issues with the coaxial cable or connectors. I'm not sure I would want to use a mast longer than five feet in this application but I don't have any real evidence to support my oppinion. In a few weeks I hope to mount my first home GPS antenna using this mounting method (: I have also been involved in a project where long lengths of free hanging cable were required. (ie. hanging inside the towers of a suspension bridge.) Special cables were used in this application. Sorry I don't know what the height limit is for free hanging conventional coaxial cable is but I'd hesitate to have more than 5 feet or so free hanging. Regards Mark Spencer VE7AFZ - Original Message From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 8:27:03 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem Just as a followup, here's some other ideas: When I worked for British Telecom (it was called Post Office Telephones then) as an apprentice I woked on undergroud work for a while. Telephone cables were lead sheathed and the joints were made in a shoth lenght of large diameter lead pipe. A lot of these joints were lead soldered but some were sealed by a compressible gland at each end. The gland was made of a thick disk of black rubber which would fit snugly but freely inside the joint sleeve. Either side of the rubber disk was a brass blate slightly smaller in diameter than the rubber. There were holes through the gland to allow the cables to enter and this was a snugh but free fit on the cable, and with the brass plate holes being a bit larger than the cable holes. The two brass plates were held either side of the rubber by brass bolts which went through clearance holes on the outside and were threaded in the rear brass plate. The idea is that the cables went through the glands were they were jointed. The joint then went into the joint sleeve and the gland was pushed just inside the sleeve. The bolts were then tightened to compress the rubber gland which then made a tight mechanical and waterproof (hopefully) seal to the joint. You could do something similar with a gland fitted into the antenna support pole which would grip the cable firmly in place but allow it to be removed easily. A bit of engineering, I know, but an idea. Another option would be to find a piece of bamboo or doweling which would fit inside the antenna post along with the cable. The cable could then the cable tied to this stick and run up the inside of the antenna support with the base of the stick fixed to the bottom of the antenna pole. And while I'm at it, how about some builders expanding foam. You could hold the cable in the pipe and squirt the foam into the pipe where it would expand to grip the sides of the pole and the cable as well. A cable tie round the coax should stop the cable falling down in the event of shrinkage. Bit messy though. As the pipe being mentioned was plastic plumbing supplies, you could find a flat piece of the same plastic and using a hole cutting saw, cut out a disk with a tight fit into the pipe. Make the hole in the middle to fit the cable and glue it a few inches down the pipe with the pipe sealing glue for plumbing. Just need to put a cable tie on the coax for cable relief to stop it dropping down and attach it to the antenna. You could also find a wood plug the same size as the inside of the antenna pipe. Make a hole through the middle , lower it into the pipe, drill a small hole through the side of the pipe and secure the wood plug with a short wood screw. Just need to use the same old cable tie strain relief again. Just some random ideas, sorry for taking you time on an off topic subject. 73, Steve. 2009/3/3 Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com: 2009/3/2 Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net: Gaffa tape the cable to the supporting pipe with a small drip loop into the connector. That assumes the cable gets to the outside of the pipe. I was interested in the case where the antenna sits directly on the top of the pipe (not a bracket off to the side). Find a rubber cork, or something which will not deteriorate, that is a tight fit for the inside of the pipe. Drill a hole in it to pass the coax through. Leave enough coax out of the cork to attach to the antenna and then press the cork into the pipe. The short length of coax at the top will not be a strain on the connector and the action of squeezing the cork into the pipe will further grip the coax to stop it travelling downwards. You can also add
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
Quote: Some antennas are setup with the coax connector on the inside of a place with threads where the pipe attaches. The coax has to go up the inside of the mounting pipe. Comscope do a stainless steel grip for this purpose, Its quite normal to hang LDF4-50 5-50 etc inside a 15m monopole with no support apart from one of these. Here is a different supplier with a similar product. http://www.cablegrip.co.uk/doubleye.php I think in the US you call them Klein grips? For home use you could very easily improvise one using nylon cord and a knot called a girth or prussic. HTH -- 73 de Paul GW8IZR IO73TI http://www.gw8izr.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
Steve Rooke skrev: 2009/3/2 Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org: Steve Rooke skrev: Gaffa tape the cable to the supporting pipe with a small drip loop into the connector. No. The glue of Gaffa tape ages. Also, it is not very nice to the cable. Buy decent gaffa tape, not the duct tape variant :) Even with really good stuff, it is not the long term solution you would like. Sorry, I agree with you really Magnus. I was more indicating that the cable does need to be supported by being attached to the mast structure than have all that weight on the poor connector. Gaffa is great for temporary work where is is tough and sticks well, and is easy to tear-down an installation. Indeed. Temporary 1 week Using black wide cable ties for the antenna cable would be an idea and be easy to take down too. Indeed. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
In my experience high quality electrical tape (ie. 3m Scotch brand tape) will also work okay for securing cables to masts if you cut the tape to length as opposed to stretching it to break it. High quality UV resistant cable ties are probably a better choice though but be carefull not to over tighten the cable ties. - Original Message From: Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, March 2, 2009 10:04:09 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem Steve Rooke skrev: 2009/3/2 Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org: Steve Rooke skrev: Gaffa tape the cable to the supporting pipe with a small drip loop into the connector. No. The glue of Gaffa tape ages. Also, it is not very nice to the cable. Buy decent gaffa tape, not the duct tape variant :) Even with really good stuff, it is not the long term solution you would like. Sorry, I agree with you really Magnus. I was more indicating that the cable does need to be supported by being attached to the mast structure than have all that weight on the poor connector. Gaffa is great for temporary work where is is tough and sticks well, and is easy to tear-down an installation. Indeed. Temporary 1 week Using black wide cable ties for the antenna cable would be an idea and be easy to take down too. Indeed. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
Hal, Hal Murray skrev: Gaffa tape the cable to the supporting pipe with a small drip loop into the connector. That assumes the cable gets to the outside of the pipe. I was interested in the case where the antenna sits directly on the top of the pipe (not a bracket off to the side). Some antennas are setup with the coax connector on the inside of a place with threads where the pipe attaches. The coax has to go up the inside of the mounting pipe. You can also use a bracket, but it's setup for the inside-the-pipe approach. Here is a drawing: http://www.synergy-gps.com/images/stories/pdf/anttiming3000_tn888.pdf For a setup like that, I don't see how to get tape or anything else inside the pipe, so the coax will end up hanging from the connector. So the question is how much coax can you hang from a connector? Clearly a foot or 3 is reasonable because you need that much for a drip loop. How about 6 ft? 20 ft? I use such an arrangement for a 1,5 m pipe. Such a drop is not a problem. I strain-relief the cable before dropping it further along the roof and over the edge. Judging from the strain on it as it comes in to the strain-releif, just the path over the roof takes away strain, but I beleive that winds might be the biggest problem. This is still in the quick and dirty department. Not as quick and dirty as another antenna up there... but I will have to wait until spring and a dry roof before I correct that... and the real fix needs some hardware work. Hmm. Maybe I should do that while waiting for it. I have two antennas in need of stable mounting. Hmm... :) Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
Tom, The standard configuration for our local moutain top cell sites in Fairbanks is a VIC-100 antenna with LMR-400 feed cable to minimize RF attenuation at very low temperatures. A Symmetricom 4-port splitter feeds dual sets of redundant timing equipment. The ATT guys tell me that even at -60F they get reliable operation with very few outages due to GPS signal loss. Richard Bill, Is your signal degradation sudden or gradual as correlated with outside temperature? How well sealed is your outdoor connector? Maybe moisture or thin layer of ice at the cable-connector-antenna junction? Monitoring antenna voltage current could be a good clue to the source of the problem. Those HP hockey puck or cone antennas are used in cell towers all over; it seems unlikely it would be the fault in the antenna itself. Richard -- do you see any of these on cell sites in Fairbanks? /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
In message: 49ac1f99.7010...@rubidium.dyndns.org Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org writes: : Steve Rooke skrev: : 2009/3/2 Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org: : Steve Rooke skrev: : Gaffa tape the cable to the supporting pipe with a small drip loop : into the connector. : No. The glue of Gaffa tape ages. Also, it is not very nice to the cable. : : Buy decent gaffa tape, not the duct tape variant :) : : Even with really good stuff, it is not the long term solution you would : like. : : Sorry, I agree with you really Magnus. I was more indicating that the : cable does need to be supported by being attached to the mast : structure than have all that weight on the poor connector. Gaffa is : great for temporary work where is is tough and sticks well, and is : easy to tear-down an installation. : : Indeed. Temporary 1 week : : Using black wide cable ties for the antenna cable would be an idea and : be easy to take down too. : : Indeed. I've used both Velcro scraps, plastic cable ties and electrical tape for strain relief on my wireless connection. Velcro straps seem to work the best, but need to be replaced every 8-10 years or so. The rest is crap. Since I was reconfiguring the setup every few years, I could easily replace the worn/weathered straps when I did the reconfiguration. I don't know what I'd use for a more permanent installation. Warner ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
Bill The coefficient of thermal expansion of solid PE is around 12x that of copper (17x that of steel), so its seems unlikely that the the inner conductor would contract faster than the surrounding solid polytethylene dielectric. However this only applies when the polyethylene and the inner conductor are at the same temperature. Perhaps thermal hysteresis of the dielectric during temperature cycling fractured the inner conductor? Foam dielectric cables should have lower stress due to temperature changes, but may need better support. Bruce Bill Hawkins wrote: Group, My GPS time system consists of two Z3801A receivers with two HP cone antennas. I built a mast from plastic pipe (6 base to 2 arms) that is about 16 feet tall. The antennas are 4 feet apart, each 2' from the center of the mast. The mast rises from a deck and is fastened 8' up at the roof line. The mast sits on a 3/4 sheet of high density marine plastic fastened to the deck with stainless hinges so that the antenna can be folded away from the house and brought to the deck railing. The mast was put up in 2003. The antenna cables are each half of a 100' coil of RG-8U. Each cable is about half in the house and half outdoors. N connectors are soldered to both ends, so no adapters are used. The cables leave the house through a waterproof boat deck fitting and travel about 5' under the deck to the mast. There's a service loop to allow the mast to be lowered, then the cables rise unsupported through the mast pipe and branch out to the antennas, which support the weight of the cables. Oh, and the location is Minneapolis, MN, USA. The problem is loss of signal during cold weather. Last winter (07-08) I lost the signal from one antenna during a cold snap, but it came back a week or so later when it warmed up outside. This winter, I lost The North antenna on Nov 22 when the low was 15, and it didn't come back. Then the South antenna went away on Dec 24 with a -17 low and didn't come back. I'm still running on holdover. I suspect that it's not a good idea to hang 20 feet of RG-8 from an N connector without some kind of strain relief, but I don't know why that would be a cold weather effect. Perhaps the center conductor shrinks more than cable and its braid, and pulls the center pin out. There's definitely an open circuit, looking at the receiver end of the cable. There's no alarm from the Z3801. Any thoughts, comments or ideas? Bill Hawkins ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
Bill What type of solder did you use? Some ROHS solders are prone to thermal fatigue. Bruce Bill Hawkins wrote: Group, My GPS time system consists of two Z3801A receivers with two HP cone antennas. I built a mast from plastic pipe (6 base to 2 arms) that is about 16 feet tall. The antennas are 4 feet apart, each 2' from the center of the mast. The mast rises from a deck and is fastened 8' up at the roof line. The mast sits on a 3/4 sheet of high density marine plastic fastened to the deck with stainless hinges so that the antenna can be folded away from the house and brought to the deck railing. The mast was put up in 2003. The antenna cables are each half of a 100' coil of RG-8U. Each cable is about half in the house and half outdoors. N connectors are soldered to both ends, so no adapters are used. The cables leave the house through a waterproof boat deck fitting and travel about 5' under the deck to the mast. There's a service loop to allow the mast to be lowered, then the cables rise unsupported through the mast pipe and branch out to the antennas, which support the weight of the cables. Oh, and the location is Minneapolis, MN, USA. The problem is loss of signal during cold weather. Last winter (07-08) I lost the signal from one antenna during a cold snap, but it came back a week or so later when it warmed up outside. This winter, I lost The North antenna on Nov 22 when the low was 15, and it didn't come back. Then the South antenna went away on Dec 24 with a -17 low and didn't come back. I'm still running on holdover. I suspect that it's not a good idea to hang 20 feet of RG-8 from an N connector without some kind of strain relief, but I don't know why that would be a cold weather effect. Perhaps the center conductor shrinks more than cable and its braid, and pulls the center pin out. There's definitely an open circuit, looking at the receiver end of the cable. There's no alarm from the Z3801. Any thoughts, comments or ideas? Bill Hawkins ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
Bill, Is your signal degradation sudden or gradual as correlated with outside temperature? How well sealed is your outdoor connector? Maybe moisture or thin layer of ice at the cable-connector-antenna junction? Monitoring antenna voltage current could be a good clue to the source of the problem. Those HP hockey puck or cone antennas are used in cell towers all over; it seems unlikely it would be the fault in the antenna itself. Richard -- do you see any of these on cell sites in Fairbanks? /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
I am sure it is NOT a good idea to hand heavy cable like RG-8 from the N-type connector. What will hapen is that the cable will walk out of the connector and the centre pin will withdraw from the socket. This happens whilst the outer jacket stretches so there is no indiction there is a physical problem. This can happen very quickly but does depend on the strain put on the cable (Amateur Radio field-day experience !!) You should always loop the cable and take the strain off the connector totally. Take the cable down and remake it, add strain relief, and all will probably be well. Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: Bill Hawkins b...@iaxs.net To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 8:05 PM Subject: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem Group, My GPS time system consists of two Z3801A receivers with two HP cone antennas. I built a mast from plastic pipe (6 base to 2 arms) that is about 16 feet tall. The antennas are 4 feet apart, each 2' from the center of the mast. The mast rises from a deck and is fastened 8' up at the roof line. The mast sits on a 3/4 sheet of high density marine plastic fastened to the deck with stainless hinges so that the antenna can be folded away from the house and brought to the deck railing. The mast was put up in 2003. The antenna cables are each half of a 100' coil of RG-8U. Each cable is about half in the house and half outdoors. N connectors are soldered to both ends, so no adapters are used. The cables leave the house through a waterproof boat deck fitting and travel about 5' under the deck to the mast. There's a service loop to allow the mast to be lowered, then the cables rise unsupported through the mast pipe and branch out to the antennas, which support the weight of the cables. Oh, and the location is Minneapolis, MN, USA. The problem is loss of signal during cold weather. Last winter (07-08) I lost the signal from one antenna during a cold snap, but it came back a week or so later when it warmed up outside. This winter, I lost The North antenna on Nov 22 when the low was 15, and it didn't come back. Then the South antenna went away on Dec 24 with a -17 low and didn't come back. I'm still running on holdover. I suspect that it's not a good idea to hang 20 feet of RG-8 from an N connector without some kind of strain relief, but I don't know why that would be a cold weather effect. Perhaps the center conductor shrinks more than cable and its braid, and pulls the center pin out. There's definitely an open circuit, looking at the receiver end of the cable. There's no alarm from the Z3801. Any thoughts, comments or ideas? Bill Hawkins ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
All those lengths and temperatures in some weird old fashioned measuring system make my head spin. 2009/3/2 Bill Hawkins b...@iaxs.net Group, My GPS time system consists of two Z3801A receivers with two HP cone antennas. I built a mast from plastic pipe (6 base to 2 arms) that is about 16 feet tall. The antennas are 4 feet apart, each 2' from the center of the mast. The mast rises from a deck and is fastened 8' up at the roof line. The mast sits on a 3/4 sheet of high density marine plastic fastened to the deck with stainless hinges so that the antenna can be folded away from the house and brought to the deck railing. The mast was put up in 2003. The antenna cables are each half of a 100' coil of RG-8U. Each cable is about half in the house and half outdoors. N connectors are soldered to both ends, so no adapters are used. The cables leave the house through a waterproof boat deck fitting and travel about 5' under the deck to the mast. There's a service loop to allow the mast to be lowered, then the cables rise unsupported through the mast pipe and branch out to the antennas, which support the weight of the cables. Oh, and the location is Minneapolis, MN, USA. The problem is loss of signal during cold weather. Last winter (07-08) I lost the signal from one antenna during a cold snap, but it came back a week or so later when it warmed up outside. This winter, I lost The North antenna on Nov 22 when the low was 15, and it didn't come back. Then the South antenna went away on Dec 24 with a -17 low and didn't come back. I'm still running on holdover. I suspect that it's not a good idea to hang 20 feet of RG-8 from an N connector without some kind of strain relief, but I don't know why that would be a cold weather effect. Perhaps the center conductor shrinks more than cable and its braid, and pulls the center pin out. There's definitely an open circuit, looking at the receiver end of the cable. There's no alarm from the Z3801. Any thoughts, comments or ideas? Bill Hawkins ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
Take the cable down and remake it, add strain relief, and all will probably be well. Is there a standard trick for how to do the strain relief when the antenna is setup to have the cable go up the inside of the mounting pipe? - Thanks everybody for all the roof/antenna hints from a week ago. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
Two or one tee connectors will allow the cable to exit and reenter. If your side arm is using a elbow now replace it with a tee. Stanley From: Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sunday, March 1, 2009 5:50:39 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem Take the cable down and remake it, add strain relief, and all will probably be well. Is there a standard trick for how to do the strain relief when the antenna is setup to have the cable go up the inside of the mounting pipe? - Thanks everybody for all the roof/antenna hints from a week ago. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
Two or one tee connectors will allow the cable to exit and reenter. If your side arm is using a elbow now replace it with a tee. Thanks, but I don't picture what you are trying to describe. Are you talking about tees and elbows in the pipe or cable? I was thinking of the simple case with only a simple vertical pipe to a single antenna, no side arms. Maybe the answer is that you can't support the cable in the really simple case of one vertical pipe with the antenna on top. If you want to support the cable you have to have some other setup so you can get at the cable. How about a different question? How much cable can a connector support? How would I support a cable anyway? I'm thinking of something like a Chinese finger trap with a string on one end that gets attached to a string. Are there cable clamp gizmos that are tight enough to grab but loose enough not to distort the cable and also work over temperature cycling and ... Is low loss coax stiff enough that I can support it from the bottom and push it up into a pipe? (I'm assuming the pipe is narrow enough and/or the coax is stiff enough to hold the coax in place.) -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
a couple of suggestions: 1. Use a captive center pin on the N male connector. for example, Kings Electronics Inc. N male, model # KN-59-176 for RG-214 coaxial cable, center pin is solder type and captive, will not move axially. Wrench clamp on the shield. Kings cage = 91836 mil spec: M39012/01-0005 a few bucks each 2. consider adding a foam in place insulation, inside the plastic pipe to support the coaxial cable. drill a 1/8 hole every few feet and squirt in the aerosol foam till it comes out of the hole. Go for the minimally expanding insulating foam you will find in Home Depot or Lowes. Stan, W1LEFn41srCape Cod Hal Murray wrote: Two or one tee connectors will allow the cable to exit and reenter. If your side arm is using a elbow now replace it with a tee. Thanks, but I don't picture what you are trying to describe. Are you talking about tees and elbows in the pipe or cable? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
How about something like these cable grips? http://www.deltaelectricproducts.com/ (This is just an example to show what I'm talking about. I'm sure a local electrical supplier has them.) You'd have to figure out the cable routing and attachment, but it should take the strain off the connector. It seems like I saw something on one of the ham radio supplier sites for coax cable support, but can't find it now. Not sure if its the same thing. Alan ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
From: Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sunday, March 1, 2009 7:15:02 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem Pipe / mast , the idea was to allow the feed line to exit the mast and be supported on the outside. A whole drilled in the pile would do as long as the bend radius for the cable is maintained, maybe drill the hole at a 45 degree angle or cut a vertical slot in the mast. Just don't reduce the strength too much with a big hole but if this was toward the top less strength is needed. I like the foam idea but you would need a new mast if the cable needs repair later. The foam could add strength and reduce wind sway. Maybe combine the two, strengthen mast below the exit hole with foam and seal the exit hole with some foam that could be removed if necessary. Stanley Two or one tee connectors will allow the cable to exit and reenter. If your side arm is using a elbow now replace it with a tee. Thanks, but I don't picture what you are trying to describe. Are you talking about tees and elbows in the pipe or cable? snip ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
One reason why I prefer crimp-on connectors. 73, Dick, W1KSZ -Original Message- From: Stan W1LE stanw...@verizon.net Sent: Mar 1, 2009 8:56 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem a couple of suggestions: 1. Use a captive center pin on the N male connector. for example, Kings Electronics Inc. N male, model # KN-59-176 for RG-214 coaxial cable, center pin is solder type and captive, will not move axially. Wrench clamp on the shield. Kings cage = 91836 mil spec: M39012/01-0005 a few bucks each 2. consider adding a foam in place insulation, inside the plastic pipe to support the coaxial cable. drill a 1/8 hole every few feet and squirt in the aerosol foam till it comes out of the hole. Go for the minimally expanding insulating foam you will find in Home Depot or Lowes. Stan, W1LEFn41srCape Cod Hal Murray wrote: Two or one tee connectors will allow the cable to exit and reenter. If your side arm is using a elbow now replace it with a tee. Thanks, but I don't picture what you are trying to describe. Are you talking about tees and elbows in the pipe or cable? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
Gaffa tape the cable to the supporting pipe with a small drip loop into the connector. 2009/3/2 Richard W. Solomon w1...@earthlink.net: One reason why I prefer crimp-on connectors. 73, Dick, W1KSZ -Original Message- From: Stan W1LE stanw...@verizon.net Sent: Mar 1, 2009 8:56 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem a couple of suggestions: 1. Use a captive center pin on the N male connector. for example, Kings Electronics Inc. N male, model # KN-59-176 for RG-214 coaxial cable, center pin is solder type and captive, will not move axially. Wrench clamp on the shield. Kings cage = 91836 mil spec: M39012/01-0005 a few bucks each 2. consider adding a foam in place insulation, inside the plastic pipe to support the coaxial cable. drill a 1/8 hole every few feet and squirt in the aerosol foam till it comes out of the hole. Go for the minimally expanding insulating foam you will find in Home Depot or Lowes. Stan, W1LE Fn41sr Cape Cod Hal Murray wrote: Two or one tee connectors will allow the cable to exit and reenter. If your side arm is using a elbow now replace it with a tee. Thanks, but I don't picture what you are trying to describe. Are you talking about tees and elbows in the pipe or cable? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD JAKDTTNW Omnium finis imminet ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
Your chinese finger trap supports are available at any reasonably sized electrical supply house. Don - Original Message - From: Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem Two or one tee connectors will allow the cable to exit and reenter. If your side arm is using a elbow now replace it with a tee. Thanks, but I don't picture what you are trying to describe. Are you talking about tees and elbows in the pipe or cable? I was thinking of the simple case with only a simple vertical pipe to a single antenna, no side arms. Maybe the answer is that you can't support the cable in the really simple case of one vertical pipe with the antenna on top. If you want to support the cable you have to have some other setup so you can get at the cable. How about a different question? How much cable can a connector support? How would I support a cable anyway? I'm thinking of something like a Chinese finger trap with a string on one end that gets attached to a string. Are there cable clamp gizmos that are tight enough to grab but loose enough not to distort the cable and also work over temperature cycling and ... Is low loss coax stiff enough that I can support it from the bottom and push it up into a pipe? (I'm assuming the pipe is narrow enough and/or the coax is stiff enough to hold the coax in place.) -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem
Why not juts use Ty-raps as we do in the commercial world (black ones for outdoor use)? 72, Bob, K1REM -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com]on Behalf Of Steve Rooke Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 1:20 AM To: Richard W. Solomon; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem Gaffa tape the cable to the supporting pipe with a small drip loop into the connector. 2009/3/2 Richard W. Solomon w1...@earthlink.net: One reason why I prefer crimp-on connectors. 73, Dick, W1KSZ -Original Message- From: Stan W1LE stanw...@verizon.net Sent: Mar 1, 2009 8:56 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna installation problem a couple of suggestions: 1. Use a captive center pin on the N male connector. for example, Kings Electronics Inc. N male, model # KN-59-176 for RG-214 coaxial cable, center pin is solder type and captive, will not move axially. Wrench clamp on the shield. Kings cage = 91836 mil spec: M39012/01-0005 a few bucks each 2. consider adding a foam in place insulation, inside the plastic pipe to support the coaxial cable. drill a 1/8 hole every few feet and squirt in the aerosol foam till it comes out of the hole. Go for the minimally expanding insulating foam you will find in Home Depot or Lowes. Stan, W1LE Fn41sr Cape Cod Hal Murray wrote: Two or one tee connectors will allow the cable to exit and reenter. If your side arm is using a elbow now replace it with a tee. Thanks, but I don't picture what you are trying to describe. Are you talking about tees and elbows in the pipe or cable? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD JAKDTTNW Omnium finis imminet ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
