Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[GandalfG8--- via time-nuts]

> It seems to me that the code they use for the 6731M signal is  botched,
> anybody who can confirm ?
 
Indeed, see the attached plot (from a recording I made earlier  this
evening): the master signal is totally lacking the 180 degree  phase
code modulation, while the slave signal does have it.
 
Regards,
Pieter-Tjerk, PA3FWM
 

 
I didn't get a chance to check yesterday but am currently locked  onto both 
the "Lessay" Master and the Anthorn Y station so I assume  these problems 
are resolved, for now at least:-)
 
Regards
 
Nigel
GM8PZR
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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[GandalfG8--- via time-nuts]

> It seems to me that the code they use for the 6731M signal is  botched,
> anybody who can confirm ?
 
Indeed, see the attached plot (from a recording I made earlier  this
evening): the master signal is totally lacking the 180 degree  phase
code modulation, while the slave signal does have  it.
Regards,
Pieter-Tjerk, PA3FWM
 
-
This explains exactly what I've been seeing here on the FS700s.
 
By default the FS700 runs in an "Auto" mode, where given a valid GRI  it 
searches and locks to the station with the highest signal strength,  but with 
both Master and Y channels now having the same amplitude this obviously  
becomes a very close call.
This wasn't an issue until yesterday afternoon, but  with both operational 
units producing errors I eventually  realised this was only when they were 
trying to lock to the  Master and that they would still lock ok to the Y  
channel, manually selecting the Y channel resolved the problem.
 
Whether or not the current situation is deliberate or unintended,  having 
the Master present again, even in a restricted fashion, does at  least 
restore proper channel identification:-)
 
Regards
 
Nigel
GM8PZR
 
 
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[Brian Inglis]

The 2015 shutdown was of the Research Information Network, but I guess the OP 
may have meant the Royal Institute of Navigation? Hard to believe anyone 
responsible from the latter would decry eLoran, unless perhaps the operational 
cost was seen to be unreasonable.

On 2016-01-06 18:39, Alan Melia wrote:

Yeah well its all done by computers now you dont need qualified navigators, the 
Captain can easily run it aground on his own :-)) It took a little longer than 
dumping ROs but not much.

Alan
G3NYK

- Original Message - From: "Brian Inglis" 
<brian.ing...@systematicsw.ab.ca>
To: <time-nuts@febo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?



On 2016-01-04 14:11, Alan Melia wrote:

I remember being told by a senior member of the RIN that he thought it was a "dead 
duck" and a waste of money.


It appears someone also thought RIN was a "dead duck" and a waste of money as 
it too shut down at the end of 2015!


--
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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[paul swed]

I will say that this is the case that Time-nuts can actually help.
I suspect no one knows there are people out here that can tell the
difference in the Master signals. I learned that lesson when I built up the
Loran C simulator. The first one did not do the flips. Then when the
Austrons would not lock I figured it out. Yes I should have read the spec
more carefully.
If you can find contacts that care they most likely will appreciate you
help.
Good luck
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 6:55 AM, Alan Melia <alan.me...@btinternet.com>
wrote:

> Hi Brian Yes I did mean the Royal Inst. of Navigation.  I think the hard
> facts were that there seemed no support from Governments for systems for
> which the users could not be billed . That hastened the demise of our own
> Decca Nav system in the late 90s also hastened by the end of the Cold War.
> My contact may have been jaundiced as he had been a Decca man. I had a
> contact whilst the Loop Head gear was operating from Rugby, but not after
> the contract passed to Babcock and Anthorn..but there were ex BT staff
> working there.I will enquire.
>
> Alan
> G3NYK
> - Original Message - From: "Brian Inglis" <
> brian.ing...@systematicsw.ab.ca>
> To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <
> time-nuts@febo.com>
> Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2016 6:26 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?
>
>
> The 2015 shutdown was of the Research Information Network, but I guess the
>> OP may have meant the Royal Institute of Navigation? Hard to believe anyone
>> responsible from the latter would decry eLoran, unless perhaps the
>> operational cost was seen to be unreasonable.
>>
>> On 2016-01-06 18:39, Alan Melia wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah well its all done by computers now you dont need qualified
>>> navigators, the Captain can easily run it aground on his own :-)) It took a
>>> little longer than dumping ROs but not much.
>>>
>>> Alan
>>> G3NYK
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Inglis" <
>>> brian.ing...@systematicsw.ab.ca>
>>> To: <time-nuts@febo.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 9:44 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2016-01-04 14:11, Alan Melia wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I remember being told by a senior member of the RIN that he thought it
>>>>> was a "dead duck" and a waste of money.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It appears someone also thought RIN was a "dead duck" and a waste of
>>>> money as it too shut down at the end of 2015!
>>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis, Calgary, Alberta, Canada
>> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[paul swed]

The norm right now is 1 year. Enjoy while you can.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 1:50 PM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts <
time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:

> Yes, they've been switching back and forth between one or two channels  all
> day, with the one channel state always being just the usual Anthorn Y
> channel and the two channels always being Master plus the Y  channel.
> Sometimes the overall signal levels have been fluctuating quite a bit  at
> 100 Miles from Anthorn, more so than usual, and when in the  two channel
> state both channels have always been at the same signal  level, although
> on a
> few occasions the signal has shut down  altogether for several minutes at a
> time.
>
> As it's now nearly 1850, and still transmitting Master and slave  rather
> than reverting to just the slave as it did at the end of the day
> yesterday,
> I'm even more encouraged to hope this might become the norm for some  time
> at
> least.
>
> Regards
>
> Nigel
> GM8PZR
>
>
> In a message dated 05/01/2016 17:29:11 GMT Standard Time,
> p...@phk.freebsd.dk writes:
>
> 
>
> I see both a master and slave on 6731 from Denmark  now.
>
> Same signal strength:
>
> http://phk.freebsd.dk/misc/_.svg
>
> --
> Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
> p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
> FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
> Never attribute to malice  what can adequately be explained by
> incompetence.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[paul swed]

Right but they are both the same station.
Note the levels are pretty much the same.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 12:29 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp 
wrote:

> 
>
> I see both a master and slave on 6731 from Denmark now.
>
> Same signal strength:
>
> http://phk.freebsd.dk/misc/_.svg
>
> --
> Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
> p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
> FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
> Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
> ___
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> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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>
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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[Iain Young]

Hi All,

On 05/01/16 20:03, paul swed wrote:

The norm right now is 1 year. Enjoy while you can.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 1:50 PM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts <
time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:


Yes, they've been switching back and forth between one or two channels  all
day, with the one channel state always being just the usual Anthorn Y
channel and the two channels always being Master plus the Y  channel.
Sometimes the overall signal levels have been fluctuating quite a bit  at
100 Miles from Anthorn, more so than usual, and when in the  two channel
state both channels have always been at the same signal  level, although
on a
few occasions the signal has shut down  altogether for several minutes at a
time.

As it's now nearly 1850, and still transmitting Master and slave  rather
than reverting to just the slave as it did at the end of the day
yesterday,
I'm even more encouraged to hope this might become the norm for some  time
at
least.



I happen to receive the "GNSS Edition of Chronos Times" from
chronos.co.uk. While a "newsletter" (read advertisement) style email,
the like of which I'm sure we all get from various sources, the
following paragraph contained a sentence about the recent European LORAN 
shutdown.


I won't quote the entire "newsletter", but the paragraph in question
reads:

---BEGIN QUOTE---
We wish you a happy and prosperous 2016 and welcome to the first GNSS 
edition of the Chronos Times. Apart from a number of new exciting 
products shown below, the best news we had just before Christmas was 
that eLoran transmissions for timing and data services will be 
maintained going forward. Whilst the rest of Europe has decided to close 
down its old Loran-C transmitters, the UK has confirmed that eLoran 
transmissions from Anthorn will continue. This is early days for this 
new service

---END QUOTE---

So, that's some good news at least. How long for, as Paul says is to be
determined, but at least it's positive news


Best Regards

Iain
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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

It seems to me that the code they use for the 6731M signal is botched,
anybody who can confirm ?

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[Brian Inglis]

On 2016-01-04 14:11, Alan Melia wrote:

I remember being told by a senior member of the RIN that he thought it was a "dead 
duck" and a waste of money.


It appears someone also thought RIN was a "dead duck" and a waste of money as 
it too shut down at the end of 2015!

--
Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis, Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[Pieter-Tjerk de Boer]

On Wed, Jan 06, 2016 at 05:05:37PM +, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:

> It seems to me that the code they use for the 6731M signal is botched,
> anybody who can confirm ?

Indeed, see the attached plot (from a recording I made earlier this
evening): the master signal is totally lacking the 180 degree phase
code modulation, while the slave signal does have it.

Regards,
  Pieter-Tjerk, PA3FWM

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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[Alan Melia]

Yeah well its all done by computers now you dont need qualified navigators, 
the Captain can easily run it aground on his own :-)) It took a little 
longer than dumping ROs but not much.


Alan
G3NYK

- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Inglis" <brian.ing...@systematicsw.ab.ca>

To: <time-nuts@febo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?



On 2016-01-04 14:11, Alan Melia wrote:
I remember being told by a senior member of the RIN that he thought it 
was a "dead duck" and a waste of money.


It appears someone also thought RIN was a "dead duck" and a waste of money 
as it too shut down at the end of 2015!


--
Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis, Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[paul swed]

I would give Anthorn some time to settle down. It will.
Its a shame no one here has actual contacts with the people that run it.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 4:44 PM, Brian Inglis <
brian.ing...@systematicsw.ab.ca> wrote:

> On 2016-01-04 14:11, Alan Melia wrote:
>
>> I remember being told by a senior member of the RIN that he thought it
>> was a "dead duck" and a waste of money.
>>
>
> It appears someone also thought RIN was a "dead duck" and a waste of money
> as it too shut down at the end of 2015!
>
> --
> Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis, Calgary, Alberta, Canada
>
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[GandalfG8--- via time-nuts]

It seems to me that the code they use for the 6731M signal is  botched,
anybody who can confirm ?
 

 
Something's certainly not right at the moment.
This morning all was working fine with both Master and Y stations locked on 
 different receivers, but I had to go out for a few hours and when I 
returned  sometime after 1400, although I could still see a loran transmission 
on  
100KHz, nothing would lock and I was getting various errors reported,  
including "Can't match phase code".
 
As of 1815 this situation continues, although I'm still seeing  occasional 
signal dropouts and then recovery, so perhaps they're still working  on it.
 
Regards
 
Nigel
GM8PZR
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[GandalfG8--- via time-nuts]

It seems to me that the code they use for the 6731M signal is  botched,
anybody who can confirm ?

 
Ah well, as of 1915 the FS700s seem to be locking ok again but  still with 
the monitored signal dropping out from time to time so I guess we  just need 
to be patient and treat it as work in progress.
 
Regards
 
Nigel
GM8PZR
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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message <5ce6d0.616cac05.43bec...@aol.com>, gandal...@aol.com writes:
>--part1_5ce6d0.616cac05.43bec318_boundary

>It seems to me that the code they use for the 6731M signal is  botched,
>anybody who can confirm ?
>
> 
>Ah well, as of 1915 the FS700s seem to be locking ok again but  still with 
>the monitored signal dropping out from time to time so I guess we  just need 
>to be patient and treat it as work in progress.

I can lock too, but best lock is to the 3rd pulse in the master
signal using the slave-code...

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[David J Taylor]

FOlks,

Whilst it's not e-LORAN, and it may not be of much help, I can at least now 
look for signals here in Edinburgh give the GRI.  I'm using:


- e-field vertical mounted in the loft (yes, it would be far better outside)
- SpyVerter/Airspy receiver hardware
- SDR# receiver software
- Virtual Audio Cable to send the audio from SDR# to;
- NDBfinder software from www.coaa.co.uk

This doesn't do anything ultra clever, just shows the signals like you would 
see on a 'scope, but integrated to improve the S/N.


Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv 


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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[David J Taylor]

I'm receiving pulses on 100 kHz with AirSpy and a SpyVerter, but I have no 
Windows software to decode the signal and determine just which LORAN it is. 
Can anyone recommend suitable Windows software?


Being located in Edinburgh the signal is reasonable strong.

Thanks,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv 


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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[John Seamons]

On LoranView (http://www.df6nm.bplaced.net/LoranView/LoranGrabber.htm) you can 
easily see various outages on Anthorn beginning at about 1500Z 4-Jan.

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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

I see both a master and slave on 6731 from Denmark now.

Same signal strength:

http://phk.freebsd.dk/misc/_.svg

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[paul swed]

Well this is indeed a good new year.
It would appear that Anthorn will be active for a year to 2017.
It will be dual rated as a master and slave same sight. Much like the US.
The ups and downs you are seeing are the process to dual rate the Master.
Should settle out soon as Master and Y.
So It would appear that at least one country sees the value in an alternate
time and frequency distribution method. Hats off to the UK.

OK now I may have to go back to building the 10' square loop. Do a bit of
eLORAN DX.

Enjoy
Paul
WB8TSL


On Tue, Jan 5, 2016 at 7:36 AM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts <
time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> I've only used Loran specific hardware receivers for actual decoding,  so
> no doubt others will be better able to answer your question re suitable
> software, but one thing to watch out for is that the stations don't
> actually
> transmit a named identifier.
>
> With all stations transmitting at 100KHz, identification depends on the
> pre-allocated group repetition interval (GRI), with the secondary
> stations in
> a particular group being identified by their time relationship  to the
> master.
> Purpose made receivers that identify stations by name do so from internally
>  stored data, which is why my FS700s always insist that Anthorn is really
> Loop  Head in Ireland, SRS jumped the gun a bit but never issued an updated
> PROM after  the proposed station at Loop Head didn't go into service:-)
>
> It's certainly fun just monitoring today though, both Master and Y  station
> are back at the moment but the modulation's been changing about  enough to
> suggest someone might even be trying to play tunes on  it:-)
>
> Regards
>
> Nigel
> GM8PZR
>
> I'm receiving pulses on 100 kHz with AirSpy and a SpyVerter, but I have no
> Windows software to decode the signal and determine just which LORAN it is.
>
> Can anyone recommend suitable Windows software?
> Being located in  Edinburgh the signal is reasonable  strong.
> Thanks,
> David
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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[GandalfG8--- via time-nuts]

Yes, they've been switching back and forth between one or two channels  all 
day, with the one channel state always being just the usual Anthorn Y  
channel and the two channels always being Master plus the Y  channel.
Sometimes the overall signal levels have been fluctuating quite a bit  at 
100 Miles from Anthorn, more so than usual, and when in the  two channel 
state both channels have always been at the same signal  level, although on a 
few occasions the signal has shut down  altogether for several minutes at a 
time.
 
As it's now nearly 1850, and still transmitting Master and slave  rather 
than reverting to just the slave as it did at the end of the day  yesterday, 
I'm even more encouraged to hope this might become the norm for some  time at 
least.
 
Regards
 
Nigel
GM8PZR
 
 
In a message dated 05/01/2016 17:29:11 GMT Standard Time,  
p...@phk.freebsd.dk writes:



I see both a master and slave on 6731 from Denmark  now.

Same signal strength:

http://phk.freebsd.dk/misc/_.svg

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice  what can adequately be explained by  
incompetence.

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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[GandalfG8--- via time-nuts]

The experiment continues.
 
Earlier today both the Master and Y channels were showing again, then at  
1200 the signal disappeared completely, to be back at 1206 but not long  
enough for the FS700 to lock before it went again.
 
All good fun:-)
 
Regards
 
Nigel
GM8PZR
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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[GandalfG8--- via time-nuts]

Hi David,
 
I've only used Loran specific hardware receivers for actual decoding,  so 
no doubt others will be better able to answer your question re suitable  
software, but one thing to watch out for is that the stations don't actually  
transmit a named identifier.
 
With all stations transmitting at 100KHz, identification depends on the  
pre-allocated group repetition interval (GRI), with the secondary  stations in 
a particular group being identified by their time relationship  to the 
master.
Purpose made receivers that identify stations by name do so from internally 
 stored data, which is why my FS700s always insist that Anthorn is really 
Loop  Head in Ireland, SRS jumped the gun a bit but never issued an updated 
PROM after  the proposed station at Loop Head didn't go into service:-)
 
It's certainly fun just monitoring today though, both Master and Y  station 
are back at the moment but the modulation's been changing about  enough to 
suggest someone might even be trying to play tunes on  it:-)
 
Regards
 
Nigel
GM8PZR
 
I'm receiving pulses on 100 kHz with AirSpy and a SpyVerter, but I have no  
Windows software to decode the signal and determine just which LORAN it is. 
 
Can anyone recommend suitable Windows software?
Being located in  Edinburgh the signal is reasonable  strong.
Thanks,
David
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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[Poul-Henning Kamp]

In message <576b98.2a1f5672.43bc0...@aol.com>, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts 
writes:

>As of 1725, 4th January, Lessay seems to have been transmitting  again for 
>at least 30 minutes, and showing the same or a slightly stronger  signal 
>here on the west coast of Scotland than Anthorn.

Are you sure it's not UK trying to rig something up for their eLoran trials ?

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[GandalfG8--- via time-nuts]

I'm pretty sure it was Anthorn.
 
It was showing as the Master and Y stations, and the individual signal  
levels as indicated on an FS700 were within 1dB, which would seem a reasonable  
tolerance on equal signal levels given that the FS700 only reports to  the 
nearest 1dB anyway:-)
 
Still just showing Anthorn's "own" signal for now but I'll check again  
during working hours tomorrow.
 
Although I've seen it claimed otherwise I never found anything to  suggest 
Anthorn would be closing down with the other stations anyway so  wasn't 
surprised when it didn't.
I hadn't considered this latest scenario but it does make sense if  they 
intend to keep going for now.
 
Regards
 
Nigel
GM8PZR
 
 
In a message dated 04/01/2016 19:19:30 GMT Standard Time,  
paulsw...@gmail.com writes:

 
I  somewhat may guess its Anthorn.
My 2  cents from across the ocean.


The  Brits are pretty good about shutting things down. The fact that 
Anthorn stayed  operational was pretty odd even if you thought the new years 
parties got in  the way. Lets face it drink beer with friends or shut a 
transmitter in some  far away place. I know my choice.


They  can easily dual rate Anthorn. But then the signal level should be 
equal.
On  eLORAN tests in the US its a Master and the Y station. But its one  
transmitter. The same transmitter has no problem with some other rate running  
at the same time.


Regards
Paul
WB8TSL




On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 1:19 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp <_phk@phk.freebsd.dk_ 
(mailto:p...@phk.freebsd.dk) > wrote:


In  message <_576b98.2a1f5672.43bc052e@aol.com_ 
(mailto:576b98.2a1f5672.43bc0...@aol.com) >,  GandalfG8--- via time-nuts writes:

>As of 1725, 4th January,  Lessay seems to have been transmitting  again for
>at least 30  minutes, and showing the same or a slightly stronger   signal
>here on the west coast of Scotland than  Anthorn.

Are you sure it's not UK trying to rig something up  for their eLoran 
trials ?

--
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX  since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org |  TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD  since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be  explained by incompetence.

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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[paul swed]

I somewhat may guess its Anthorn.
My 2 cents from across the ocean.

The Brits are pretty good about shutting things down. The fact that Anthorn
stayed operational was pretty odd even if you thought the new years parties
got in the way. Lets face it drink beer with friends or shut a transmitter
in some far away place. I know my choice.

They can easily dual rate Anthorn. But then the signal level should be
equal.
On eLORAN tests in the US its a Master and the Y station. But its one
transmitter. The same transmitter has no problem with some other rate
running at the same time.

Regards
Paul
WB8TSL


On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 1:19 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp 
wrote:

> 
> In message <576b98.2a1f5672.43bc0...@aol.com>, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts
> writes:
>
> >As of 1725, 4th January, Lessay seems to have been transmitting  again for
> >at least 30 minutes, and showing the same or a slightly stronger  signal
> >here on the west coast of Scotland than Anthorn.
>
> Are you sure it's not UK trying to rig something up for their eLoran
> trials ?
>
> --
> Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
> p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
> FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
> Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[GandalfG8--- via time-nuts]

>As of 1725, 4th January, Lessay seems to have been transmitting   again 
for 
>at least 30 minutes, and showing the same or a slightly  stronger  signal 
>here on the west coast of Scotland than  Anthorn.
 
Are you sure it's not UK trying to rig something up for their eLoran trials 
 ?
 
=
 
I'm pretty sure now that's exactly what it was, and keeping my fingers  
crossed it'll be permanent once they finish playing:-)
 
Regards
 
Nigel
GM8PZR
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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[GandalfG8--- via time-nuts]

This could just be wishful thinking but I'm still hoping it might stay  for 
some time yet.
 
The UK General Lighthouse Authorities have been running their eLoran trials 
 since 2007 so perhaps they found sufficient incentive within that time to 
keep  going.
 
Time will tell, but as you suggest I'm just going to enjoy it for as long  
as it lasts or, with a bit of luck, for as long as I do:-)
 
Nigel
GM8PZR
 
 
In a message dated 04/01/2016 20:06:16 GMT Standard Time,  
paulsw...@gmail.com writes:

 
Nigel
In  the US at least for the eastern half of the country the test station 
has been  on lately for several weeks at a shot. Not exactly the old days but 
a great  resource besides GPS to check my various references and note 
offsets and such  using the austrons and SRS.
I  would agree 1 db difference is nothing and its the same station.Enjoy it 
while  you have it.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL


On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 2:26 PM, GandalfG8--- via  time-nuts 
<_time-nuts@febo.com_ (mailto:time-nuts@febo.com) > wrote:

>As  of 1725, 4th January, Lessay seems to have been transmitting   again
for
>at least 30 minutes, and showing the same or a  slightly  stronger  signal
>here on the west coast of  Scotland than  Anthorn.

Are you sure it's not UK trying to rig  something up for their eLoran  
trials
?

=

I'm pretty sure now  that's exactly what it was, and keeping my fingers
crossed it'll be  permanent once they finish  playing:-)

Regards

Nigel
GM8PZR

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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[paul swed]

Nigel
In the US at least for the eastern half of the country the test station has
been on lately for several weeks at a shot. Not exactly the old days but a
great resource besides GPS to check my various references and note offsets
and such using the austrons and SRS.
I would agree 1 db difference is nothing and its the same station.Enjoy it
while you have it.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 2:26 PM, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts <
time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:

> >As of 1725, 4th January, Lessay seems to have been transmitting   again
> for
> >at least 30 minutes, and showing the same or a slightly  stronger  signal
> >here on the west coast of Scotland than  Anthorn.
>
> Are you sure it's not UK trying to rig something up for their eLoran trials
>  ?
>
> =
>
> I'm pretty sure now that's exactly what it was, and keeping my fingers
> crossed it'll be permanent once they finish playing:-)
>
> Regards
>
> Nigel
> GM8PZR
> ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[paul swed]

But speculations half the fun.
Interesting chart.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 7:03 PM, Pieter-Tjerk de Boer  wrote:

>
> On http://websdr.ewi.utwente.nl:8901/fullday/ , one can see that the extra
> LORAN signal has been on the air roughly from 16:26 till 17:30 UTC: the
> waterfall clearly shows that the total received power around 100 kHz was
> higher during that time.
>
> One also sees that just _before_ the start of the "extra" signal, the total
> power was _lower_ than the "usual" value, implying that Anthorn (which is
> now the strongest signal here) was off-air; it seems to have been on the
> air only intermittently between 15:00 and 16:26 UTC.
>
> So whatever it was that happened this afternoon, it wasn't just the switch
> on of Lessay (if at all), something was (also) going on at Anthorn...
> That might be a hint that the extra signal also came from Anthorn, e.g.
> a dual-rate test. But this is of course just speculation.
>
> Regards,
>   Pieter-Tjerk, PA3FWM
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 04, 2016 at 02:19:29PM -0500, paul swed wrote:
> > I somewhat may guess its Anthorn.
> > My 2 cents from across the ocean.
> >
> > The Brits are pretty good about shutting things down. The fact that
> Anthorn
> > stayed operational was pretty odd even if you thought the new years
> parties
> > got in the way. Lets face it drink beer with friends or shut a
> transmitter
> > in some far away place. I know my choice.
> >
> > They can easily dual rate Anthorn. But then the signal level should be
> > equal.
> > On eLORAN tests in the US its a Master and the Y station. But its one
> > transmitter. The same transmitter has no problem with some other rate
> > running at the same time.
> >
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 1:19 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > 
> > > In message <576b98.2a1f5672.43bc0...@aol.com>, GandalfG8--- via
> time-nuts
> > > writes:
> > >
> > > >As of 1725, 4th January, Lessay seems to have been transmitting
> again for
> > > >at least 30 minutes, and showing the same or a slightly stronger
> signal
> > > >here on the west coast of Scotland than Anthorn.
> > >
> > > Are you sure it's not UK trying to rig something up for their eLoran
> > > trials ?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
> > > p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
> > > FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
> > > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by
> incompetence.
> > > ___
> > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > > To unsubscribe, go to
> > > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > > and follow the instructions there.
> > >
> > ___
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> > To unsubscribe, go to
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> > and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[Pieter-Tjerk de Boer]

On http://websdr.ewi.utwente.nl:8901/fullday/ , one can see that the extra
LORAN signal has been on the air roughly from 16:26 till 17:30 UTC: the
waterfall clearly shows that the total received power around 100 kHz was
higher during that time.

One also sees that just _before_ the start of the "extra" signal, the total
power was _lower_ than the "usual" value, implying that Anthorn (which is
now the strongest signal here) was off-air; it seems to have been on the
air only intermittently between 15:00 and 16:26 UTC.

So whatever it was that happened this afternoon, it wasn't just the switch
on of Lessay (if at all), something was (also) going on at Anthorn...
That might be a hint that the extra signal also came from Anthorn, e.g.
a dual-rate test. But this is of course just speculation.

Regards,
  Pieter-Tjerk, PA3FWM



On Mon, Jan 04, 2016 at 02:19:29PM -0500, paul swed wrote:
> I somewhat may guess its Anthorn.
> My 2 cents from across the ocean.
> 
> The Brits are pretty good about shutting things down. The fact that Anthorn
> stayed operational was pretty odd even if you thought the new years parties
> got in the way. Lets face it drink beer with friends or shut a transmitter
> in some far away place. I know my choice.
> 
> They can easily dual rate Anthorn. But then the signal level should be
> equal.
> On eLORAN tests in the US its a Master and the Y station. But its one
> transmitter. The same transmitter has no problem with some other rate
> running at the same time.
> 
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jan 4, 2016 at 1:19 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp 
> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > In message <576b98.2a1f5672.43bc0...@aol.com>, GandalfG8--- via time-nuts
> > writes:
> >
> > >As of 1725, 4th January, Lessay seems to have been transmitting  again for
> > >at least 30 minutes, and showing the same or a slightly stronger  signal
> > >here on the west coast of Scotland than Anthorn.
> >
> > Are you sure it's not UK trying to rig something up for their eLoran
> > trials ?
> >
> > --
> > Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
> > p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
> > FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
> > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[Alan Melia]

If I remember correctly the GLA(Trinity Ho.) has a contact with Babcock who 
run Anthorn which goes through to 2019 or 2020. The notice to mariners did 
not mention Anthorn but it did request that nav. receivers be turned off. If 
TH terminate that contact they will presumably have to pay Babcock anyway so 
they may as well continue "playing". From the papers it would seem the North 
Sea study has been completed.


I am just surprised that, naively, they did not get assurance from the 
French that they would keep Lessay running, because the move to eLoran was 
very much promoted by the French though they did not get a lot of support 
from other European countries.


I remember being told by a senior member of the RIN that he thought it was a 
"dead duck" and a waste of money.


Alan
G3NYK
- Original Message - 
From: "GandalfG8--- via time-nuts" <time-nuts@febo.com>

To: <time-nuts@febo.com>
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 7:26 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?



>As of 1725, 4th January, Lessay seems to have been transmitting   again
for

at least 30 minutes, and showing the same or a slightly  stronger  signal
here on the west coast of Scotland than  Anthorn.


Are you sure it's not UK trying to rig something up for their eLoran 
trials

?

=

I'm pretty sure now that's exactly what it was, and keeping my fingers
crossed it'll be permanent once they finish playing:-)

Regards

Nigel
GM8PZR
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Re: [time-nuts] Loran Europe Lessay seems to be back on air?

[GandalfG8--- via time-nuts]

Definitely something unusual going on, overall signal level as monitored on 
 an SDR is significantly lower than normal and seems to have dropped out 
from  time to time, and as of approximately 1750 the master signal is no 
longer  present.
 
Regards
 
Nigel
GM8PZR
 
 
In a message dated 04/01/2016 17:26:06 GMT Standard Time, gandal...@aol.com 
 writes:

As of 1725, 4th January, Lessay seems to have been transmitting  again for 
at least 30 minutes, and showing the same or a slightly stronger  signal 
here on the west coast of Scotland than Anthorn.
 
I've never seen this before, Anthorn is much closer and has always been a  
stronger signal so I'm quite intrigued, and tempted to  wonder whether 
Anthorn is now also transmitting the master signal.
 
Regards
 
Nigel
GM8PZR

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