Re: [time-nuts] PM6680 or 53131A for TimePod

2015-11-17 Thread Magnus Danielson 

Bob,

The single-shot does not improve, it's 500 ps, but the averaging of N 
samples give you that result. The 53131 does similar tricks.


Cheers,
Magnus

On 11/17/2015 02:27 AM, Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

At leas on the spec sheet I found, both counters have a single shot of 500 ps. 
The
6680 “improves” as the averaging goes up.

http://isurplus.com.au/specifications/Philips%20PM6680%20Specifications.pdf

Section 13-8 has a lot of “500 ps / sqrt(N)" in it. If N=1 (single shot) you 
get 500 ps. HP stops the
process when resolution and random bounce are roughly equal. Fluke gives you 
another bit of
noise to possibly average out under some conditions.

At least the way I read the data sheets, the two counters are very similar.

Bob


On Nov 15, 2015, at 6:10 PM, Scott McGrath  wrote:

Thanks Bob

I'm using the actual time pod for paying activities.  This would be a counter 
for time nuttery using the time pod software.  In those cases Where I don't 
want to fire up the 5071.

I'm familiar with the Keysight counters and I have a lot of them into the high 
Ghz ranges

The 53131 is spec'd to 500ps and the  6680 is spec'd at 250ps

I've also been leaning in the 53131 direction but I'd like to have the best 
tool for the job at hand

Content by Scott
Typos by Siri


On Nov 15, 2015, at 1:59 PM, Bob Camp  wrote:

Hi

I guess the first question would be - If you have a Time Pod, what do you need 
a counter for?

Based on a guess that you need extended frequency range, either would do pretty 
well. My vote
would go to the HP for a couple of reasons:

1) It’s more broadly supported in terms of driver software (which may or may 
not matter to you).

2) It’s a more common item on the auction sites, so parts are easier to find.

3) It shares some parts (like the power supply) with the (cheaper) 53181

No those are not great big reasons to go for one over the other. They are very 
similar devices. One
has an LCD that has a finite life. The other has a VFD that also has a finite 
life. Both are custom, that’s
a tie. Some like the command (button) arrangement on one over the other. I 
think it’s more a “what
are you used to” thing than anything else. On the 53131 you need to hit the Run 
button in some cases.

I have not watched the prices on the Fluke. I have kept track of the 53131’s. A 
“good price” on one
these days is below $600 ( = you may need to shop a bit, but they do show up).

Bob


On Nov 15, 2015, at 1:45 PM, Scott McGrath  wrote:

Hi

Which counter would be best for use with time pod I have a chance to buy each at a 
reasonable prices i.e. < 1000 US

Thanks in advance Scott

Content by Scott
Typos by Siri
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Re: [time-nuts] PM6680 or 53131A for TimePod

2015-11-16 Thread Chris Caudle 
On Mon, November 16, 2015 12:42 am, Scott McGrath wrote:
> More of a slip as I've noted I have a time pod for work but I'd like to
> add a small counter for time nuttery as power is not cheap in NE so
> running the 5371A for long runs can get expensive

I don't follow.  Why would you not use the TimePod with a lower power
reference?  It isn't like a TimePod only works with a cesium clock as the
reference source.

-- 
Chris Caudle


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Re: [time-nuts] PM6680 or 53131A for TimePod

2015-11-16 Thread Angus 
Hi,

PM6681's turn up at quite a good price too, and you get a lot of
extras over the 6680 - does anyone know if Timelab will work with a
6681?

Angus.



On Sun, 15 Nov 2015 15:10:42 -0800, you wrote:

>Thanks Bob
>
>I'm using the actual time pod for paying activities.  This would be a counter 
>for time nuttery using the time pod software.  In those cases Where I don't 
>want to fire up the 5071.  
>
>I'm familiar with the Keysight counters and I have a lot of them into the high 
>Ghz ranges
>
>The 53131 is spec'd to 500ps and the  6680 is spec'd at 250ps 
>
>I've also been leaning in the 53131 direction but I'd like to have the best 
>tool for the job at hand
>
>Content by Scott
>Typos by Siri
>
>> On Nov 15, 2015, at 1:59 PM, Bob Camp  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> I guess the first question would be - If you have a Time Pod, what do you 
>> need a counter for?
>> 
>> Based on a guess that you need extended frequency range, either would do 
>> pretty well. My vote
>> would go to the HP for a couple of reasons:
>> 
>> 1) It’s more broadly supported in terms of driver software (which may or may 
>> not matter to you).
>> 
>> 2) It’s a more common item on the auction sites, so parts are easier to find.
>> 
>> 3) It shares some parts (like the power supply) with the (cheaper) 53181
>> 
>> No those are not great big reasons to go for one over the other. They are 
>> very similar devices. One
>> has an LCD that has a finite life. The other has a VFD that also has a 
>> finite life. Both are custom, that’s 
>> a tie. Some like the command (button) arrangement on one over the other. I 
>> think it’s more a “what
>> are you used to” thing than anything else. On the 53131 you need to hit the 
>> Run button in some cases. 
>> 
>> I have not watched the prices on the Fluke. I have kept track of the 
>> 53131’s. A “good price” on one
>> these days is below $600 ( = you may need to shop a bit, but they do show 
>> up). 
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>>> On Nov 15, 2015, at 1:45 PM, Scott McGrath  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> Which counter would be best for use with time pod I have a chance to buy 
>>> each at a reasonable prices i.e. < 1000 US
>>> 
>>> Thanks in advance Scott
>>> 
>>> Content by Scott
>>> Typos by Siri
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to 
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] PM6680 or 53131A for TimePod

2015-11-16 Thread Bob Camp 
Hi

At leas on the spec sheet I found, both counters have a single shot of 500 ps. 
The
6680 “improves” as the averaging goes up. 

http://isurplus.com.au/specifications/Philips%20PM6680%20Specifications.pdf

Section 13-8 has a lot of “500 ps / sqrt(N)" in it. If N=1 (single shot) you 
get 500 ps. HP stops the
process when resolution and random bounce are roughly equal. Fluke gives you 
another bit of 
noise to possibly average out under some conditions. 

At least the way I read the data sheets, the two counters are very similar. 

Bob

> On Nov 15, 2015, at 6:10 PM, Scott McGrath  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Bob
> 
> I'm using the actual time pod for paying activities.  This would be a counter 
> for time nuttery using the time pod software.  In those cases Where I don't 
> want to fire up the 5071.  
> 
> I'm familiar with the Keysight counters and I have a lot of them into the 
> high Ghz ranges
> 
> The 53131 is spec'd to 500ps and the  6680 is spec'd at 250ps 
> 
> I've also been leaning in the 53131 direction but I'd like to have the best 
> tool for the job at hand
> 
> Content by Scott
> Typos by Siri
> 
>> On Nov 15, 2015, at 1:59 PM, Bob Camp  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> I guess the first question would be - If you have a Time Pod, what do you 
>> need a counter for?
>> 
>> Based on a guess that you need extended frequency range, either would do 
>> pretty well. My vote
>> would go to the HP for a couple of reasons:
>> 
>> 1) It’s more broadly supported in terms of driver software (which may or may 
>> not matter to you).
>> 
>> 2) It’s a more common item on the auction sites, so parts are easier to find.
>> 
>> 3) It shares some parts (like the power supply) with the (cheaper) 53181
>> 
>> No those are not great big reasons to go for one over the other. They are 
>> very similar devices. One
>> has an LCD that has a finite life. The other has a VFD that also has a 
>> finite life. Both are custom, that’s 
>> a tie. Some like the command (button) arrangement on one over the other. I 
>> think it’s more a “what
>> are you used to” thing than anything else. On the 53131 you need to hit the 
>> Run button in some cases. 
>> 
>> I have not watched the prices on the Fluke. I have kept track of the 
>> 53131’s. A “good price” on one
>> these days is below $600 ( = you may need to shop a bit, but they do show 
>> up). 
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>>> On Nov 15, 2015, at 1:45 PM, Scott McGrath  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> Which counter would be best for use with time pod I have a chance to buy 
>>> each at a reasonable prices i.e. < 1000 US
>>> 
>>> Thanks in advance Scott
>>> 
>>> Content by Scott
>>> Typos by Siri
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to 
>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
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Re: [time-nuts] PM6680 or 53131A for TimePod

2015-11-16 Thread Scott McGrath 
5371a is a TI analyzer   The time pod itself is used for paying work so it's 
not available for time nuttery.   

Content by Scott
Typos by Siri

> On Nov 16, 2015, at 6:20 AM, Chris Caudle  wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, November 16, 2015 12:42 am, Scott McGrath wrote:
>> More of a slip as I've noted I have a time pod for work but I'd like to
>> add a small counter for time nuttery as power is not cheap in NE so
>> running the 5371A for long runs can get expensive
> 
> I don't follow.  Why would you not use the TimePod with a lower power
> reference?  It isn't like a TimePod only works with a cesium clock as the
> reference source.
> 
> -- 
> Chris Caudle
> 
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] PM6680 or 53131A for TimePod

2015-11-16 Thread Larry McDavid 
Why would you want to use a 150 ps 53131 instead of a counter/timer like 
the Agilent/Keysight 53230A that provides 20 ps resolution? The TimePod 
my have better noise specs but it is a really dedicated, specific-use 
device.


Larry

On 11/15/2015 10:42 PM, Scott McGrath wrote:

More of a slip as I've noted I have a time pod for work but I'd like to add a 
small counter for time nuttery as power is not cheap in NE so running the 5371A 
for long runs can get expensive

Content by Scott
Typos by Siri


On Nov 15, 2015, at 4:08 PM, Chris Caudle  wrote:


On Sun, November 15, 2015 3:59 pm, Bob Camp wrote:
I guess the first question would be - If you have a Time Pod, what do you
need a counter for?


Or was the original question a slip, and was supposed to be which counter
is good for use with TimeLab software?

--
Chris Caudle


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--
Best wishes,

Larry McDavid W6FUB
Anaheim, California  (SE of Los Angeles, near Disneyland)
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Re: [time-nuts] PM6680 or 53131A for TimePod

2015-11-15 Thread Bob Camp 
Hi

I guess the first question would be - If you have a Time Pod, what do you need 
a counter for?

Based on a guess that you need extended frequency range, either would do pretty 
well. My vote
would go to the HP for a couple of reasons:

1) It’s more broadly supported in terms of driver software (which may or may 
not matter to you).

2) It’s a more common item on the auction sites, so parts are easier to find.

3) It shares some parts (like the power supply) with the (cheaper) 53181

No those are not great big reasons to go for one over the other. They are very 
similar devices. One
has an LCD that has a finite life. The other has a VFD that also has a finite 
life. Both are custom, that’s 
a tie. Some like the command (button) arrangement on one over the other. I 
think it’s more a “what
are you used to” thing than anything else. On the 53131 you need to hit the Run 
button in some cases. 

I have not watched the prices on the Fluke. I have kept track of the 53131’s. A 
“good price” on one
these days is below $600 ( = you may need to shop a bit, but they do show up). 

Bob

> On Nov 15, 2015, at 1:45 PM, Scott McGrath  wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> Which counter would be best for use with time pod I have a chance to buy each 
> at a reasonable prices i.e. < 1000 US
> 
> Thanks in advance Scott
> 
> Content by Scott
> Typos by Siri
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.

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Re: [time-nuts] PM6680 or 53131A for TimePod

2015-11-15 Thread Scott McGrath 
Thanks Bob

I'm using the actual time pod for paying activities.  This would be a counter 
for time nuttery using the time pod software.  In those cases Where I don't 
want to fire up the 5071.  

I'm familiar with the Keysight counters and I have a lot of them into the high 
Ghz ranges

The 53131 is spec'd to 500ps and the  6680 is spec'd at 250ps 

I've also been leaning in the 53131 direction but I'd like to have the best 
tool for the job at hand

Content by Scott
Typos by Siri

> On Nov 15, 2015, at 1:59 PM, Bob Camp  wrote:
> 
> Hi
> 
> I guess the first question would be - If you have a Time Pod, what do you 
> need a counter for?
> 
> Based on a guess that you need extended frequency range, either would do 
> pretty well. My vote
> would go to the HP for a couple of reasons:
> 
> 1) It’s more broadly supported in terms of driver software (which may or may 
> not matter to you).
> 
> 2) It’s a more common item on the auction sites, so parts are easier to find.
> 
> 3) It shares some parts (like the power supply) with the (cheaper) 53181
> 
> No those are not great big reasons to go for one over the other. They are 
> very similar devices. One
> has an LCD that has a finite life. The other has a VFD that also has a finite 
> life. Both are custom, that’s 
> a tie. Some like the command (button) arrangement on one over the other. I 
> think it’s more a “what
> are you used to” thing than anything else. On the 53131 you need to hit the 
> Run button in some cases. 
> 
> I have not watched the prices on the Fluke. I have kept track of the 53131’s. 
> A “good price” on one
> these days is below $600 ( = you may need to shop a bit, but they do show 
> up). 
> 
> Bob
> 
>> On Nov 15, 2015, at 1:45 PM, Scott McGrath  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi
>> 
>> Which counter would be best for use with time pod I have a chance to buy 
>> each at a reasonable prices i.e. < 1000 US
>> 
>> Thanks in advance Scott
>> 
>> Content by Scott
>> Typos by Siri
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] PM6680 or 53131A for TimePod

2015-11-15 Thread Chris Caudle 
On Sun, November 15, 2015 3:59 pm, Bob Camp wrote:
> I guess the first question would be - If you have a Time Pod, what do you
> need a counter for?

Or was the original question a slip, and was supposed to be which counter
is good for use with TimeLab software?

-- 
Chris Caudle


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Re: [time-nuts] PM6680 or 53131A for TimePod

2015-11-15 Thread Scott McGrath 
More of a slip as I've noted I have a time pod for work but I'd like to add a 
small counter for time nuttery as power is not cheap in NE so running the 5371A 
for long runs can get expensive 

Content by Scott
Typos by Siri

> On Nov 15, 2015, at 4:08 PM, Chris Caudle  wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, November 15, 2015 3:59 pm, Bob Camp wrote:
>> I guess the first question would be - If you have a Time Pod, what do you
>> need a counter for?
> 
> Or was the original question a slip, and was supposed to be which counter
> is good for use with TimeLab software?
> 
> -- 
> Chris Caudle
> 
> 
> ___
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