Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 time to lock

2013-08-28 Thread Bob Camp
Hi

They are after good ADEV out to the point that the loop bandwidth lets the gas 
cell take over. In some cases that can be a bit further out than others.

Bob

On Aug 27, 2013, at 10:09 PM, Ed Palmer ed_pal...@sasktel.net wrote:

 Yes, in many of the more recent Rb standards you're lucky if the crystal is 
 ovenized at all.  But are you sure that they're after good ADEV?  I get the 
 impression that the only thing they're interested in is low drift for the 
 unit (e.g. for holdover purposes) since they're intended to be components in 
 a system rather than lab standards.  Anything else is more luck than intent.  
 The PRS10 seems to be an exception in that it has an SC xtal.  Other than the 
 5065A, are there any Rb standards that use an SC xtal?
 
 Ed
 
 On 8/27/2013 6:24 PM, Bob Camp wrote:
 Hi
 
 The OCXO in most Rb's isn't all that great. They are after good ADEV, but 
 tempco and aging aren't terribly important.
 
 Bob
 
 On Aug 26, 2013, at 1:34 PM, Nathaniel Bezanson mys...@telcodata.us wrote:
 
 At room temperature, mine takes about 3-4 minutes heating until the lamp 
 will start. You'll see RbMon showing SD2 and AD4 at max values, then 
 they'll settle back into something sensible once it lights up. After that, 
 you're watching the DS signal values and hoping the (large, small) turns 
 into (small, large).
 Mine had a blown capacitor in the lamp circuit, thus it wouldn't ignite; 
 SD2 and AD4 never budged. I opened it up to find a cracked tantalum cap: 
 http://imgur.com/bASgB After replacing the cap, I now get lamp ignition but 
 it doesn't achieve lock. (Photocell signal AD9 very low.) Once I swear I 
 saw RbMon claim it had locked, about 6 minutes after power-up, but a moment 
 later it was back to unlocked state and it's never repeated that feat. No 
 idea what happened there.
 I'm wondering whether one can simply use it as a nice (albeit power-hungry) 
 OCXO. If given 1pps from GPS, will the quartz discipline itself even 
 without the Rb loop running?
 -Nate B-
 Stephen Tompsett (G8LYB)  wrote:
   Use the RbMon utility to monitor the unit's operation as it 
 starts up to
 confirm that the lamp is started and the photocell is detecting a signal.
 Not long ago there were a number of units available for sale on Ebay
 that appeared to have a lamp problem.
 
 On 23/08/2013 02:10, Paul wrote:
 As I patiently wait for my PRS10 to lock I'm curious if there's a
 limit beyond which I should assume the unit is faulty.
 
 It does produce abount 10MHz (+- .2 Hz) and the oven current dropped
 at what I assume is operating temperature.
 
 --
 Stephen Tompsett (G8LYB)
 
 
 
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Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 time to lock

2013-08-27 Thread Bob Camp
Hi

The OCXO in most Rb's isn't all that great. They are after good ADEV, but 
tempco and aging aren't terribly important. 

Bob

On Aug 26, 2013, at 1:34 PM, Nathaniel Bezanson mys...@telcodata.us wrote:

 At room temperature, mine takes about 3-4 minutes heating until the lamp will 
 start. You'll see RbMon showing SD2 and AD4 at max values, then they'll 
 settle back into something sensible once it lights up. After that, you're 
 watching the DS signal values and hoping the (large, small) turns into 
 (small, large). 
 Mine had a blown capacitor in the lamp circuit, thus it wouldn't ignite; SD2 
 and AD4 never budged. I opened it up to find a cracked tantalum cap: 
 http://imgur.com/bASgB After replacing the cap, I now get lamp ignition but 
 it doesn't achieve lock. (Photocell signal AD9 very low.) Once I swear I saw 
 RbMon claim it had locked, about 6 minutes after power-up, but a moment later 
 it was back to unlocked state and it's never repeated that feat. No idea what 
 happened there.
 I'm wondering whether one can simply use it as a nice (albeit power-hungry) 
 OCXO. If given 1pps from GPS, will the quartz discipline itself even without 
 the Rb loop running? 
 -Nate B-
 Stephen Tompsett (G8LYB)  wrote:
Use the RbMon utility to monitor the unit's operation as it 
 starts up to
 confirm that the lamp is started and the photocell is detecting a signal.
 Not long ago there were a number of units available for sale on Ebay
 that appeared to have a lamp problem.
 
 On 23/08/2013 02:10, Paul wrote:
 As I patiently wait for my PRS10 to lock I'm curious if there's a
 limit beyond which I should assume the unit is faulty.
 
 It does produce abount 10MHz (+- .2 Hz) and the oven current dropped
 at what I assume is operating temperature.
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to 
 https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there.
 
 --
 Stephen Tompsett (G8LYB)
 
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Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 time to lock

2013-08-27 Thread Ed Palmer
Yes, in many of the more recent Rb standards you're lucky if the crystal 
is ovenized at all.  But are you sure that they're after good ADEV?  I 
get the impression that the only thing they're interested in is low 
drift for the unit (e.g. for holdover purposes) since they're intended 
to be components in a system rather than lab standards.  Anything else 
is more luck than intent.  The PRS10 seems to be an exception in that it 
has an SC xtal.  Other than the 5065A, are there any Rb standards that 
use an SC xtal?


Ed

On 8/27/2013 6:24 PM, Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

The OCXO in most Rb's isn't all that great. They are after good ADEV, but 
tempco and aging aren't terribly important.

Bob

On Aug 26, 2013, at 1:34 PM, Nathaniel Bezanson mys...@telcodata.us wrote:


At room temperature, mine takes about 3-4 minutes heating until the lamp will 
start. You'll see RbMon showing SD2 and AD4 at max values, then they'll settle 
back into something sensible once it lights up. After that, you're watching the 
DS signal values and hoping the (large, small) turns into (small, large).
Mine had a blown capacitor in the lamp circuit, thus it wouldn't ignite; SD2 
and AD4 never budged. I opened it up to find a cracked tantalum cap: 
http://imgur.com/bASgB After replacing the cap, I now get lamp ignition but it 
doesn't achieve lock. (Photocell signal AD9 very low.) Once I swear I saw RbMon 
claim it had locked, about 6 minutes after power-up, but a moment later it was 
back to unlocked state and it's never repeated that feat. No idea what happened 
there.
I'm wondering whether one can simply use it as a nice (albeit power-hungry) 
OCXO. If given 1pps from GPS, will the quartz discipline itself even without 
the Rb loop running?
-Nate B-
Stephen Tompsett (G8LYB)  wrote:

Use the RbMon utility to monitor the unit's operation as it 
starts up to
confirm that the lamp is started and the photocell is detecting a signal.
Not long ago there were a number of units available for sale on Ebay
that appeared to have a lamp problem.

On 23/08/2013 02:10, Paul wrote:

As I patiently wait for my PRS10 to lock I'm curious if there's a
limit beyond which I should assume the unit is faulty.

It does produce abount 10MHz (+- .2 Hz) and the oven current dropped
at what I assume is operating temperature.


--
Stephen Tompsett (G8LYB)




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Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 time to lock

2013-08-26 Thread Nathaniel Bezanson
At room temperature, mine takes about 3-4 minutes heating until the lamp will 
start. You'll see RbMon showing SD2 and AD4 at max values, then they'll settle 
back into something sensible once it lights up. After that, you're watching the 
DS signal values and hoping the (large, small) turns into (small, large). 
Mine had a blown capacitor in the lamp circuit, thus it wouldn't ignite; SD2 
and AD4 never budged. I opened it up to find a cracked tantalum cap: 
http://imgur.com/bASgB After replacing the cap, I now get lamp ignition but it 
doesn't achieve lock. (Photocell signal AD9 very low.) Once I swear I saw RbMon 
claim it had locked, about 6 minutes after power-up, but a moment later it was 
back to unlocked state and it's never repeated that feat. No idea what happened 
there.
I'm wondering whether one can simply use it as a nice (albeit power-hungry) 
OCXO. If given 1pps from GPS, will the quartz discipline itself even without 
the Rb loop running? 
-Nate B-
Stephen Tompsett (G8LYB)  wrote:
 Use the RbMon utility to monitor the unit's operation as it 
 starts up to
 confirm that the lamp is started and the photocell is detecting a signal.
 Not long ago there were a number of units available for sale on Ebay
 that appeared to have a lamp problem.
 
 On 23/08/2013 02:10, Paul wrote:
  As I patiently wait for my PRS10 to lock I'm curious if there's a
  limit beyond which I should assume the unit is faulty.
 
  It does produce abount 10MHz (+- .2 Hz) and the oven current dropped
  at what I assume is operating temperature.
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  time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
  To unsubscribe, go to 
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  and follow the instructions there.
 
 --
 Stephen Tompsett (G8LYB)
 
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Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 time to lock

2013-08-23 Thread Stephen Tompsett (G8LYB)
Use the RbMon utility to monitor the unit's operation as it starts up to
confirm that the lamp is started and the photocell is detecting a signal.
Not long ago there were a number of units available for sale on Ebay
that appeared to have a lamp problem.

On 23/08/2013 02:10, Paul wrote:
 As I patiently wait for my PRS10 to lock I'm curious if there's a
 limit beyond which I should assume the unit is faulty.

 It does produce abount 10MHz (+- .2 Hz) and the oven current dropped
 at what I assume is operating temperature.
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there.

-- 
Stephen Tompsett (G8LYB)

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Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 time to lock

2013-08-23 Thread Bob Camp
Hi

Pretty much all of the small Rb's that I have seen (LPRO, FE 56xx's, PRS-10's) 
lock up in under 10 minutes if they are running properly at room temperature. 
Most system level specs seem to want them to be doing something in under 10 
minutes. They are fairly far off at lock, but converge to  0.001Hz of final 
frequency quite quickly. 

Bob

On Aug 22, 2013, at 10:10 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote:

 I can't directly speak to a PRS 10 but from the hp 5065 to FE's and FRS
 20-40 minutes would be typical. The newer smaller ones seem to be within 20
 minutes. They are below .2 Hz when locked.
 Regards
 Paul
 WB8TSL/1
 
 
 On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 9:10 PM, Paul tic-...@bodosom.net wrote:
 
 As I patiently wait for my PRS10 to lock I'm curious if there's a
 limit beyond which I should assume the unit is faulty.
 
 It does produce abount 10MHz (+- .2 Hz) and the oven current dropped
 at what I assume is operating temperature.
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to
 https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there.
 
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Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 time to lock

2013-08-23 Thread Brooke Clarke

Hi Paul:

Use the Rb monitor program to check to see if the unit is in the mode to lock.
There's another mode where the Rb is free running and the 1PPS is time stamped. 
 If in this mode there's no lock.

Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html

Paul wrote:

As I patiently wait for my PRS10 to lock I'm curious if there's a
limit beyond which I should assume the unit is faulty.

It does produce abount 10MHz (+- .2 Hz) and the oven current dropped
at what I assume is operating temperature.
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and follow the instructions there.




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Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 time to lock

2013-08-23 Thread Paul
 Use the RbMon utility to monitor the unit's operation as it starts up to
 confirm that the lamp is started and the photocell is detecting a signal.

I'm not at all clear how to interpret the output but I think having
the FET voltage stuck on 255 means the lamp isn't igniting.

It also reports high drain, low gate and low photo i/v.

Since I have no hardware sense I'm going to write this off as a bad
lamp or other hardware failure.

Thanks to all for the help.

--
Paul
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Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 time to lock

2013-08-22 Thread paul swed
I can't directly speak to a PRS 10 but from the hp 5065 to FE's and FRS
20-40 minutes would be typical. The newer smaller ones seem to be within 20
minutes. They are below .2 Hz when locked.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL/1


On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 9:10 PM, Paul tic-...@bodosom.net wrote:

 As I patiently wait for my PRS10 to lock I'm curious if there's a
 limit beyond which I should assume the unit is faulty.

 It does produce abount 10MHz (+- .2 Hz) and the oven current dropped
 at what I assume is operating temperature.
 ___
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 To unsubscribe, go to
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Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 time to lock

2013-08-22 Thread Said Jackson
Paul, i think 8 min is stated somewhere...

Sent From iPhone

On Aug 22, 2013, at 18:10, Paul tic-...@bodosom.net wrote:

 As I patiently wait for my PRS10 to lock I'm curious if there's a
 limit beyond which I should assume the unit is faulty.
 
 It does produce abount 10MHz (+- .2 Hz) and the oven current dropped
 at what I assume is operating temperature.
 ___
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 To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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