Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 time to lock
Hi They are after good ADEV out to the point that the loop bandwidth lets the gas cell take over. In some cases that can be a bit further out than others. Bob On Aug 27, 2013, at 10:09 PM, Ed Palmer ed_pal...@sasktel.net wrote: Yes, in many of the more recent Rb standards you're lucky if the crystal is ovenized at all. But are you sure that they're after good ADEV? I get the impression that the only thing they're interested in is low drift for the unit (e.g. for holdover purposes) since they're intended to be components in a system rather than lab standards. Anything else is more luck than intent. The PRS10 seems to be an exception in that it has an SC xtal. Other than the 5065A, are there any Rb standards that use an SC xtal? Ed On 8/27/2013 6:24 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi The OCXO in most Rb's isn't all that great. They are after good ADEV, but tempco and aging aren't terribly important. Bob On Aug 26, 2013, at 1:34 PM, Nathaniel Bezanson mys...@telcodata.us wrote: At room temperature, mine takes about 3-4 minutes heating until the lamp will start. You'll see RbMon showing SD2 and AD4 at max values, then they'll settle back into something sensible once it lights up. After that, you're watching the DS signal values and hoping the (large, small) turns into (small, large). Mine had a blown capacitor in the lamp circuit, thus it wouldn't ignite; SD2 and AD4 never budged. I opened it up to find a cracked tantalum cap: http://imgur.com/bASgB After replacing the cap, I now get lamp ignition but it doesn't achieve lock. (Photocell signal AD9 very low.) Once I swear I saw RbMon claim it had locked, about 6 minutes after power-up, but a moment later it was back to unlocked state and it's never repeated that feat. No idea what happened there. I'm wondering whether one can simply use it as a nice (albeit power-hungry) OCXO. If given 1pps from GPS, will the quartz discipline itself even without the Rb loop running? -Nate B- Stephen Tompsett (G8LYB) wrote: Use the RbMon utility to monitor the unit's operation as it starts up to confirm that the lamp is started and the photocell is detecting a signal. Not long ago there were a number of units available for sale on Ebay that appeared to have a lamp problem. On 23/08/2013 02:10, Paul wrote: As I patiently wait for my PRS10 to lock I'm curious if there's a limit beyond which I should assume the unit is faulty. It does produce abount 10MHz (+- .2 Hz) and the oven current dropped at what I assume is operating temperature. -- Stephen Tompsett (G8LYB) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 time to lock
Hi The OCXO in most Rb's isn't all that great. They are after good ADEV, but tempco and aging aren't terribly important. Bob On Aug 26, 2013, at 1:34 PM, Nathaniel Bezanson mys...@telcodata.us wrote: At room temperature, mine takes about 3-4 minutes heating until the lamp will start. You'll see RbMon showing SD2 and AD4 at max values, then they'll settle back into something sensible once it lights up. After that, you're watching the DS signal values and hoping the (large, small) turns into (small, large). Mine had a blown capacitor in the lamp circuit, thus it wouldn't ignite; SD2 and AD4 never budged. I opened it up to find a cracked tantalum cap: http://imgur.com/bASgB After replacing the cap, I now get lamp ignition but it doesn't achieve lock. (Photocell signal AD9 very low.) Once I swear I saw RbMon claim it had locked, about 6 minutes after power-up, but a moment later it was back to unlocked state and it's never repeated that feat. No idea what happened there. I'm wondering whether one can simply use it as a nice (albeit power-hungry) OCXO. If given 1pps from GPS, will the quartz discipline itself even without the Rb loop running? -Nate B- Stephen Tompsett (G8LYB) wrote: Use the RbMon utility to monitor the unit's operation as it starts up to confirm that the lamp is started and the photocell is detecting a signal. Not long ago there were a number of units available for sale on Ebay that appeared to have a lamp problem. On 23/08/2013 02:10, Paul wrote: As I patiently wait for my PRS10 to lock I'm curious if there's a limit beyond which I should assume the unit is faulty. It does produce abount 10MHz (+- .2 Hz) and the oven current dropped at what I assume is operating temperature. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Stephen Tompsett (G8LYB) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 time to lock
Yes, in many of the more recent Rb standards you're lucky if the crystal is ovenized at all. But are you sure that they're after good ADEV? I get the impression that the only thing they're interested in is low drift for the unit (e.g. for holdover purposes) since they're intended to be components in a system rather than lab standards. Anything else is more luck than intent. The PRS10 seems to be an exception in that it has an SC xtal. Other than the 5065A, are there any Rb standards that use an SC xtal? Ed On 8/27/2013 6:24 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi The OCXO in most Rb's isn't all that great. They are after good ADEV, but tempco and aging aren't terribly important. Bob On Aug 26, 2013, at 1:34 PM, Nathaniel Bezanson mys...@telcodata.us wrote: At room temperature, mine takes about 3-4 minutes heating until the lamp will start. You'll see RbMon showing SD2 and AD4 at max values, then they'll settle back into something sensible once it lights up. After that, you're watching the DS signal values and hoping the (large, small) turns into (small, large). Mine had a blown capacitor in the lamp circuit, thus it wouldn't ignite; SD2 and AD4 never budged. I opened it up to find a cracked tantalum cap: http://imgur.com/bASgB After replacing the cap, I now get lamp ignition but it doesn't achieve lock. (Photocell signal AD9 very low.) Once I swear I saw RbMon claim it had locked, about 6 minutes after power-up, but a moment later it was back to unlocked state and it's never repeated that feat. No idea what happened there. I'm wondering whether one can simply use it as a nice (albeit power-hungry) OCXO. If given 1pps from GPS, will the quartz discipline itself even without the Rb loop running? -Nate B- Stephen Tompsett (G8LYB) wrote: Use the RbMon utility to monitor the unit's operation as it starts up to confirm that the lamp is started and the photocell is detecting a signal. Not long ago there were a number of units available for sale on Ebay that appeared to have a lamp problem. On 23/08/2013 02:10, Paul wrote: As I patiently wait for my PRS10 to lock I'm curious if there's a limit beyond which I should assume the unit is faulty. It does produce abount 10MHz (+- .2 Hz) and the oven current dropped at what I assume is operating temperature. -- Stephen Tompsett (G8LYB) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 time to lock
At room temperature, mine takes about 3-4 minutes heating until the lamp will start. You'll see RbMon showing SD2 and AD4 at max values, then they'll settle back into something sensible once it lights up. After that, you're watching the DS signal values and hoping the (large, small) turns into (small, large). Mine had a blown capacitor in the lamp circuit, thus it wouldn't ignite; SD2 and AD4 never budged. I opened it up to find a cracked tantalum cap: http://imgur.com/bASgB After replacing the cap, I now get lamp ignition but it doesn't achieve lock. (Photocell signal AD9 very low.) Once I swear I saw RbMon claim it had locked, about 6 minutes after power-up, but a moment later it was back to unlocked state and it's never repeated that feat. No idea what happened there. I'm wondering whether one can simply use it as a nice (albeit power-hungry) OCXO. If given 1pps from GPS, will the quartz discipline itself even without the Rb loop running? -Nate B- Stephen Tompsett (G8LYB) wrote: Use the RbMon utility to monitor the unit's operation as it starts up to confirm that the lamp is started and the photocell is detecting a signal. Not long ago there were a number of units available for sale on Ebay that appeared to have a lamp problem. On 23/08/2013 02:10, Paul wrote: As I patiently wait for my PRS10 to lock I'm curious if there's a limit beyond which I should assume the unit is faulty. It does produce abount 10MHz (+- .2 Hz) and the oven current dropped at what I assume is operating temperature. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Stephen Tompsett (G8LYB) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 time to lock
Use the RbMon utility to monitor the unit's operation as it starts up to confirm that the lamp is started and the photocell is detecting a signal. Not long ago there were a number of units available for sale on Ebay that appeared to have a lamp problem. On 23/08/2013 02:10, Paul wrote: As I patiently wait for my PRS10 to lock I'm curious if there's a limit beyond which I should assume the unit is faulty. It does produce abount 10MHz (+- .2 Hz) and the oven current dropped at what I assume is operating temperature. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Stephen Tompsett (G8LYB) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 time to lock
Hi Pretty much all of the small Rb's that I have seen (LPRO, FE 56xx's, PRS-10's) lock up in under 10 minutes if they are running properly at room temperature. Most system level specs seem to want them to be doing something in under 10 minutes. They are fairly far off at lock, but converge to 0.001Hz of final frequency quite quickly. Bob On Aug 22, 2013, at 10:10 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: I can't directly speak to a PRS 10 but from the hp 5065 to FE's and FRS 20-40 minutes would be typical. The newer smaller ones seem to be within 20 minutes. They are below .2 Hz when locked. Regards Paul WB8TSL/1 On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 9:10 PM, Paul tic-...@bodosom.net wrote: As I patiently wait for my PRS10 to lock I'm curious if there's a limit beyond which I should assume the unit is faulty. It does produce abount 10MHz (+- .2 Hz) and the oven current dropped at what I assume is operating temperature. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 time to lock
Hi Paul: Use the Rb monitor program to check to see if the unit is in the mode to lock. There's another mode where the Rb is free running and the 1PPS is time stamped. If in this mode there's no lock. Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html Paul wrote: As I patiently wait for my PRS10 to lock I'm curious if there's a limit beyond which I should assume the unit is faulty. It does produce abount 10MHz (+- .2 Hz) and the oven current dropped at what I assume is operating temperature. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 time to lock
Use the RbMon utility to monitor the unit's operation as it starts up to confirm that the lamp is started and the photocell is detecting a signal. I'm not at all clear how to interpret the output but I think having the FET voltage stuck on 255 means the lamp isn't igniting. It also reports high drain, low gate and low photo i/v. Since I have no hardware sense I'm going to write this off as a bad lamp or other hardware failure. Thanks to all for the help. -- Paul ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 time to lock
I can't directly speak to a PRS 10 but from the hp 5065 to FE's and FRS 20-40 minutes would be typical. The newer smaller ones seem to be within 20 minutes. They are below .2 Hz when locked. Regards Paul WB8TSL/1 On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 9:10 PM, Paul tic-...@bodosom.net wrote: As I patiently wait for my PRS10 to lock I'm curious if there's a limit beyond which I should assume the unit is faulty. It does produce abount 10MHz (+- .2 Hz) and the oven current dropped at what I assume is operating temperature. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 time to lock
Paul, i think 8 min is stated somewhere... Sent From iPhone On Aug 22, 2013, at 18:10, Paul tic-...@bodosom.net wrote: As I patiently wait for my PRS10 to lock I'm curious if there's a limit beyond which I should assume the unit is faulty. It does produce abount 10MHz (+- .2 Hz) and the oven current dropped at what I assume is operating temperature. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.