Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

2012-06-19 Thread David J Taylor

Folks may be interested in this article:

 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18497083

 A group of experts has urged funders of UK research to encourage 
scientists to publish their results in journals that offer free public 
access to findings.


 A report by Dame Janet Finch argues that there is a powerful moral case 
for publicly funded research to be freely available.


Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk 



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Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

2012-06-06 Thread d . seiter
It's good to know you can still wander in. I used to go there to browse on 
rainy days when I had nothing to do (pre-internet, of course). 


-Dave 

- Original Message -
From: Rick Karlquist rich...@karlquist.com 
To: li...@lazygranch.com, Discussion of precise time and frequency 
measurement time-nuts@febo.com 
Sent: Tuesday, June 5, 2012 4:03:33 PM 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant 

li...@lazygranch.com wrote: 
 Terman Library (Stanford) used let any schmuck use the computers in the 
 library. You could email the articles to yourself. Now it requires a 
 password. 

BTW, the library in Terman hall is the Engineering Library 
not the Terman Library. A common misconception. 

Rick 


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Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

2012-06-06 Thread Chuck Harris

The ACM and IEEE sites are subscription sites.  They
never give up the goodies.  This silly confection only
works on sites that nag you to pay for access.

-Chuck Harris

DaveH wrote:

(cough)  http://www.breakthepaywall.com/  (cough)

IE7 on up...

CAVEAT:  I have not tried these on the ACM  or IEEE sites but this works on
a couple sites I visit.

Dave


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Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

2012-06-06 Thread paul swed
Well thats an interesting piece of software

On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 1:41 AM, DaveH i...@blackmountainforge.com wrote:

 (cough)  http://www.breakthepaywall.com/  (cough)

 IE7 on up...

 CAVEAT:  I have not tried these on the ACM  or IEEE sites but this works on
 a couple sites I visit.

 Dave

  -Original Message-
  From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com
  [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of paul swed
  Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 06:15
  To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
  Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant
 
  Its actully pretty pervasive these days. I hate those sights so now
  carefully see what googles pointing me to before jumping if possible.
  So a quick question and not to take the thread.
  Anyone know if the old IRE papers might exist someplace for free?
  I ran across a few of the actual magazines and for me it was
  actually a
  good read.
  Regards
  Paul.
 
  On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 8:12 AM, Peter Gottlieb
  n...@verizon.net wrote:
 
 I dropped my membership a couple of years ago.  Every
  single thing cost
 money; I couldn't even skim through papers to see if they were
 applicable without paying full price and it became increasingly
 difficult to justify membership PLUS paying for browsing
  privileges
 especially when there is actually very little of direct
  practical use.
  
  
 On 06/05/12, Attila Kinaliatt...@kinali.ch wrote:
  
 On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 00:26:56 -0700
  Hal Murray [1]hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote:
  The IEEE is particularly behind the times. I assume
  it's left over
 from when
  they could get away with it because they only had to jack up the
 price of
  printed stuff by a small amount. Some of this may trace
  back to their
  standards work where they could get away with high prices.
 Actually they are getting worse. IEEEs Computer Society
  started to send
 out yearly reminders that it's not ok to share documents
  you legaly
 acuired with your coworkers and friends. Telling them a
  few times that
 this is in contradiction to local law, which explicitly
  allows me to do
 that didn't change anything... That and also the wording
  that strongly
 suggests that anyone who is subscribed to the CDL is a thief
 (illegaly
 copying files and sharing them with the world) led me to
  the decision
 to cancel my subscription.
 Attila Kinali
 --
 It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately
  founded. All
 the prosperity and technological sophistication in the
  world is of no
 use without that foundation.
 -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
 ___
  time-nuts mailing list -- [2]time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to
 [3]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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 1. mailto:hmur...@megapathdsl.net
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Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

2012-06-06 Thread steve heidmann
Then what happened ?

--- On Tue, 6/5/12, J. Forster j...@quikus.com wrote:


From: J. Forster j...@quikus.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Date: Tuesday, June 5, 2012, 12:45 PM


Good luck.

About 20 years ago, I bought out the entire library of a local RD company
for $10, including well over 50' of 7' high shelves of professional
journals.

(There were a number of books I wanted and I got more than my money's
worth on those.}

Anyway, I tried to sell the journals without a single nibble. Nobody
wanted them. Luckily I bought the library on condition of not having to
take what I didn't want, so didn't have to dealo with several tons of
useless paper.

There might be takers as a donation in India or something, IF you pay to
ship them there. That's not for me.

FWIW,

-John






 I may still have the option to get something like 600 to 800 lbs of
 IRE publications.
 I think in South Dakota. If anyone is game/interested I can check.



 On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 6:15 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote:
 Its actully pretty pervasive these days. I hate those sights so now
 carefully see what googles pointing me to before jumping if possible.
 So a quick question and not to take the thread.
 Anyone know if the old IRE papers might exist someplace for free?
 I ran across a few of the actual magazines and for me it was actually a
 good read.
 Regards
 Paul.

 On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 8:12 AM, Peter Gottlieb n...@verizon.net wrote:

   I dropped my membership a couple of years ago.  Every single thing
 cost
   money; I couldn't even skim through papers to see if they were
   applicable without paying full price and it became increasingly
   difficult to justify membership PLUS paying for browsing privileges
   especially when there is actually very little of direct practical
 use.


   On 06/05/12, Attila Kinaliatt...@kinali.ch wrote:

   On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 00:26:56 -0700
    Hal Murray [1]hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote:
    The IEEE is particularly behind the times. I assume it's left over
   from when
    they could get away with it because they only had to jack up the
   price of
    printed stuff by a small amount. Some of this may trace back to
 their
    standards work where they could get away with high prices.
   Actually they are getting worse. IEEEs Computer Society started to
 send
   out yearly reminders that it's not ok to share documents you legaly
   acuired with your coworkers and friends. Telling them a few times
 that
   this is in contradiction to local law, which explicitly allows me to
 do
   that didn't change anything... That and also the wording that
 strongly
   suggests that anyone who is subscribed to the CDL is a thief
   (illegaly
   copying files and sharing them with the world) led me to the
 decision
   to cancel my subscription.
   Attila Kinali
   --
   It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All
   the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of
 no
   use without that foundation.
   -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
   ___
    time-nuts mailing list -- [2]time-nuts@febo.com
   To unsubscribe, go to
   [3]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
    and follow the instructions there.

 References

   1. mailto:hmur...@megapathdsl.net
   2. mailto:time-nuts@febo.com
   3. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant.. Old Journals

2012-06-06 Thread J. Forster
I highgraded the library for things like the full hardbound MIT Rad Lab
Series and maybe 10 other cartons of technical books on physics,
chemistry, and electronics.

Then I sold off some of the remaining monographs to a local used book
dealer (a local guy who appraises rare books on the Antiques Roadshow).

I don't know about the journals and unwanted books, but I assume they went
into the dumpster or maybe a paper recycler. Nobody wanted the stuff,
although somebody did buy the bookshelves which were sold separately. I
only bought the books, not the shelves.

Sometimes, you are lucky to get rid of stuff w/o having to pay disposal fees.

Best,

-John

=










 Then what happened ?

 --- On Tue, 6/5/12, J. Forster j...@quikus.com wrote:


 From: J. Forster j...@quikus.com
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
 time-nuts@febo.com
 Date: Tuesday, June 5, 2012, 12:45 PM


 Good luck.

 About 20 years ago, I bought out the entire library of a local RD company
 for $10, including well over 50' of 7' high shelves of professional
 journals.

 (There were a number of books I wanted and I got more than my money's
 worth on those.}

 Anyway, I tried to sell the journals without a single nibble. Nobody
 wanted them. Luckily I bought the library on condition of not having to
 take what I didn't want, so didn't have to dealo with several tons of
 useless paper.

 There might be takers as a donation in India or something, IF you pay to
 ship them there. That's not for me.

 FWIW,

 -John

 




 I may still have the option to get something like 600 to 800 lbs of
 IRE publications.
 I think in South Dakota. If anyone is game/interested I can check.



 On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 6:15 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote:
 Its actully pretty pervasive these days. I hate those sights so now
 carefully see what googles pointing me to before jumping if possible.
 So a quick question and not to take the thread.
 Anyone know if the old IRE papers might exist someplace for free?
 I ran across a few of the actual magazines and for me it was actually a
 good read.
 Regards
 Paul.

 On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 8:12 AM, Peter Gottlieb n...@verizon.net
 wrote:

   I dropped my membership a couple of years ago.  Every single thing
 cost
   money; I couldn't even skim through papers to see if they were
   applicable without paying full price and it became increasingly
   difficult to justify membership PLUS paying for browsing privileges
   especially when there is actually very little of direct practical
 use.


   On 06/05/12, Attila Kinaliatt...@kinali.ch wrote:

   On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 00:26:56 -0700
    Hal Murray [1]hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote:
    The IEEE is particularly behind the times. I assume it's left
 over
   from when
    they could get away with it because they only had to jack up the
   price of
    printed stuff by a small amount. Some of this may trace back to
 their
    standards work where they could get away with high prices.
   Actually they are getting worse. IEEEs Computer Society started to
 send
   out yearly reminders that it's not ok to share documents you legaly
   acuired with your coworkers and friends. Telling them a few times
 that
   this is in contradiction to local law, which explicitly allows me
 to
 do
   that didn't change anything... That and also the wording that
 strongly
   suggests that anyone who is subscribed to the CDL is a thief
   (illegaly
   copying files and sharing them with the world) led me to the
 decision
   to cancel my subscription.
   Attila Kinali
   --
   It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded.
 All
   the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of
 no
   use without that foundation.
   -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
   ___
    time-nuts mailing list -- [2]time-nuts@febo.com
   To unsubscribe, go to
   [3]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
    and follow the instructions there.

 References

   1. mailto:hmur...@megapathdsl.net
   2. mailto:time-nuts@febo.com
   3. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 ___
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 To unsubscribe, go to
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Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

2012-06-05 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message 20120605072656.314c1800...@ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net, Hal Mu
rray writes:

The IEEE is particularly behind the times.

As is ACM.  I'm told through the grapewine that digital subscriptions
is a major part of their budget, so nothing will be opened unless with
a crowbar.

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

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Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

2012-06-05 Thread Attila Kinali
On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 00:26:56 -0700
Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote:

 The IEEE is particularly behind the times.  I assume it's left over from when 
 they could get away with it because they only had to jack up the price of 
 printed stuff by a small amount.  Some of this may trace back to their 
 standards work where they could get away with high prices.

Actually they are getting worse. IEEEs Computer Society started to send
out yearly reminders that it's not ok to share documents you legaly
acuired with your coworkers and friends. Telling them a few times that
this is in contradiction to local law, which explicitly allows me to do
that didn't change anything... That and also the wording that strongly
suggests that anyone who is subscribed to the CDL is a thief (illegaly
copying files and sharing them with the world) led me to the decision
to cancel my subscription.


Attila Kinali
-- 
It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All 
the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no 
use without that foundation.
 -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson

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Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

2012-06-05 Thread Jim Palfreyman
I'm in astrophysics and arXiv is there just for that.

Why don't others do that?

Jim


On Tuesday, 5 June 2012, Attila Kinali wrote:

 On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 00:26:56 -0700
 Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net javascript:; wrote:

  The IEEE is particularly behind the times.  I assume it's left over from
 when
  they could get away with it because they only had to jack up the price of
  printed stuff by a small amount.  Some of this may trace back to their
  standards work where they could get away with high prices.

 Actually they are getting worse. IEEEs Computer Society started to send
 out yearly reminders that it's not ok to share documents you legaly
 acuired with your coworkers and friends. Telling them a few times that
 this is in contradiction to local law, which explicitly allows me to do
 that didn't change anything... That and also the wording that strongly
 suggests that anyone who is subscribed to the CDL is a thief (illegaly
 copying files and sharing them with the world) led me to the decision
 to cancel my subscription.


Attila Kinali
 --
 It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All
 the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no
 use without that foundation.
 -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson

 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com javascript:;
 To unsubscribe, go to
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Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

2012-06-05 Thread Peter Gottlieb
   I dropped my membership a couple of years ago.  Every single thing cost
   money; I couldn't even skim through papers to see if they were
   applicable without paying full price and it became increasingly
   difficult to justify membership PLUS paying for browsing privileges
   especially when there is actually very little of direct practical use.


   On 06/05/12, Attila Kinaliatt...@kinali.ch wrote:

   On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 00:26:56 -0700
   Hal Murray [1]hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote:
The IEEE is particularly behind the times. I assume it's left over
   from when
they could get away with it because they only had to jack up the
   price of
printed stuff by a small amount. Some of this may trace back to their
standards work where they could get away with high prices.
   Actually they are getting worse. IEEEs Computer Society started to send
   out yearly reminders that it's not ok to share documents you legaly
   acuired with your coworkers and friends. Telling them a few times that
   this is in contradiction to local law, which explicitly allows me to do
   that didn't change anything... That and also the wording that strongly
   suggests that anyone who is subscribed to the CDL is a thief
   (illegaly
   copying files and sharing them with the world) led me to the decision
   to cancel my subscription.
   Attila Kinali
   --
   It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All
   the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no
   use without that foundation.
   -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
   ___
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   To unsubscribe, go to
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References

   1. mailto:hmur...@megapathdsl.net
   2. mailto:time-nuts@febo.com
   3. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

2012-06-05 Thread paul swed
Its actully pretty pervasive these days. I hate those sights so now
carefully see what googles pointing me to before jumping if possible.
So a quick question and not to take the thread.
Anyone know if the old IRE papers might exist someplace for free?
I ran across a few of the actual magazines and for me it was actually a
good read.
Regards
Paul.

On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 8:12 AM, Peter Gottlieb n...@verizon.net wrote:

   I dropped my membership a couple of years ago.  Every single thing cost
   money; I couldn't even skim through papers to see if they were
   applicable without paying full price and it became increasingly
   difficult to justify membership PLUS paying for browsing privileges
   especially when there is actually very little of direct practical use.


   On 06/05/12, Attila Kinaliatt...@kinali.ch wrote:

   On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 00:26:56 -0700
Hal Murray [1]hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote:
The IEEE is particularly behind the times. I assume it's left over
   from when
they could get away with it because they only had to jack up the
   price of
printed stuff by a small amount. Some of this may trace back to their
standards work where they could get away with high prices.
   Actually they are getting worse. IEEEs Computer Society started to send
   out yearly reminders that it's not ok to share documents you legaly
   acuired with your coworkers and friends. Telling them a few times that
   this is in contradiction to local law, which explicitly allows me to do
   that didn't change anything... That and also the wording that strongly
   suggests that anyone who is subscribed to the CDL is a thief
   (illegaly
   copying files and sharing them with the world) led me to the decision
   to cancel my subscription.
   Attila Kinali
   --
   It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All
   the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no
   use without that foundation.
   -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
   ___
time-nuts mailing list -- [2]time-nuts@febo.com
   To unsubscribe, go to
   [3]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

 References

   1. mailto:hmur...@megapathdsl.net
   2. mailto:time-nuts@febo.com
   3. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 ___
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Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

2012-06-05 Thread Joseph M Gwinn

Both ACM and IEEE are publishers at heart.  IEEE likes to boast that they
publish almost a third of the world's technical literature.

It's instructive to look at their annual reports, where sources and uses of
funds are documented.  Follow the money, always.

Joe Gwinn


Ref:  http://www.ieee.org/about/today/index.html




From:   Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Date:   06/05/2012 03:53 AM
Subject:Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant
Sent by:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com



In message 20120605072656.314c1800...@ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net,
Hal Mu
rray writes:

The IEEE is particularly behind the times.

As is ACM.  I'm told through the grapewine that digital subscriptions
is a major part of their budget, so nothing will be opened unless with
a crowbar.

--
Poul-Henning Kamp   | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer   | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

___
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https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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inline: graycol.gif___
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Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

2012-06-05 Thread Dr. David Kirkby

On 06/ 5/12 06:43 PM, J. Forster wrote:


IMO, the IEEE is pretty much useless for practicing engineers. It is
mostly by and for academics to build up their resumes

YMMV,

-John


I disagree with that. I find the IEEE useful as a practicing engineer. I think a 
lot of companies do to. My own employer pays a subscription so we can get 
certain journals, and I know when I worked at Marconi, they paid for membership 
for any engineer who wanted to join.


But I would agree, 99% of the content is by academics, and they basically write 
it to get promotion. Publish or perish.


There's quite an unusual article in a recent IEEE Antennas and Propagation 
journal about making antennas from household items. Like horns from bits of 
cardboard and aluminum foil. I did not read the article in full, and at the 
minute a colleague has taken it home to read. But I'll look when she has 
finished with it. But I freely admit this is an unusual article for the IEEE.





Dave

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Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

2012-06-05 Thread Pete Lancashire
I may still have the option to get something like 600 to 800 lbs of
IRE publications.
I think in South Dakota. If anyone is game/interested I can check.



On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 6:15 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote:
 Its actully pretty pervasive these days. I hate those sights so now
 carefully see what googles pointing me to before jumping if possible.
 So a quick question and not to take the thread.
 Anyone know if the old IRE papers might exist someplace for free?
 I ran across a few of the actual magazines and for me it was actually a
 good read.
 Regards
 Paul.

 On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 8:12 AM, Peter Gottlieb n...@verizon.net wrote:

   I dropped my membership a couple of years ago.  Every single thing cost
   money; I couldn't even skim through papers to see if they were
   applicable without paying full price and it became increasingly
   difficult to justify membership PLUS paying for browsing privileges
   especially when there is actually very little of direct practical use.


   On 06/05/12, Attila Kinaliatt...@kinali.ch wrote:

   On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 00:26:56 -0700
    Hal Murray [1]hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote:
    The IEEE is particularly behind the times. I assume it's left over
   from when
    they could get away with it because they only had to jack up the
   price of
    printed stuff by a small amount. Some of this may trace back to their
    standards work where they could get away with high prices.
   Actually they are getting worse. IEEEs Computer Society started to send
   out yearly reminders that it's not ok to share documents you legaly
   acuired with your coworkers and friends. Telling them a few times that
   this is in contradiction to local law, which explicitly allows me to do
   that didn't change anything... That and also the wording that strongly
   suggests that anyone who is subscribed to the CDL is a thief
   (illegaly
   copying files and sharing them with the world) led me to the decision
   to cancel my subscription.
   Attila Kinali
   --
   It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All
   the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no
   use without that foundation.
   -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
   ___
    time-nuts mailing list -- [2]time-nuts@febo.com
   To unsubscribe, go to
   [3]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
    and follow the instructions there.

 References

   1. mailto:hmur...@megapathdsl.net
   2. mailto:time-nuts@febo.com
   3. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 ___
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 To unsubscribe, go to
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Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

2012-06-05 Thread J. Forster
Good luck.

About 20 years ago, I bought out the entire library of a local RD company
for $10, including well over 50' of 7' high shelves of professional
journals.

(There were a number of books I wanted and I got more than my money's
worth on those.}

Anyway, I tried to sell the journals without a single nibble. Nobody
wanted them. Luckily I bought the library on condition of not having to
take what I didn't want, so didn't have to dealo with several tons of
useless paper.

There might be takers as a donation in India or something, IF you pay to
ship them there. That's not for me.

FWIW,

-John






 I may still have the option to get something like 600 to 800 lbs of
 IRE publications.
 I think in South Dakota. If anyone is game/interested I can check.



 On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 6:15 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote:
 Its actully pretty pervasive these days. I hate those sights so now
 carefully see what googles pointing me to before jumping if possible.
 So a quick question and not to take the thread.
 Anyone know if the old IRE papers might exist someplace for free?
 I ran across a few of the actual magazines and for me it was actually a
 good read.
 Regards
 Paul.

 On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 8:12 AM, Peter Gottlieb n...@verizon.net wrote:

   I dropped my membership a couple of years ago.  Every single thing
 cost
   money; I couldn't even skim through papers to see if they were
   applicable without paying full price and it became increasingly
   difficult to justify membership PLUS paying for browsing privileges
   especially when there is actually very little of direct practical
 use.


   On 06/05/12, Attila Kinaliatt...@kinali.ch wrote:

   On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 00:26:56 -0700
    Hal Murray [1]hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote:
    The IEEE is particularly behind the times. I assume it's left over
   from when
    they could get away with it because they only had to jack up the
   price of
    printed stuff by a small amount. Some of this may trace back to
 their
    standards work where they could get away with high prices.
   Actually they are getting worse. IEEEs Computer Society started to
 send
   out yearly reminders that it's not ok to share documents you legaly
   acuired with your coworkers and friends. Telling them a few times
 that
   this is in contradiction to local law, which explicitly allows me to
 do
   that didn't change anything... That and also the wording that
 strongly
   suggests that anyone who is subscribed to the CDL is a thief
   (illegaly
   copying files and sharing them with the world) led me to the
 decision
   to cancel my subscription.
   Attila Kinali
   --
   It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All
   the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of
 no
   use without that foundation.
   -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
   ___
    time-nuts mailing list -- [2]time-nuts@febo.com
   To unsubscribe, go to
   [3]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
    and follow the instructions there.

 References

   1. mailto:hmur...@megapathdsl.net
   2. mailto:time-nuts@febo.com
   3. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to
 https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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 ___
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 To unsubscribe, go to
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 ___
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 To unsubscribe, go to
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Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

2012-06-05 Thread Rick Karlquist
I have a bound set of IRE/IEEE Proceedings from about 1920 to 1985.
If anyone wants them, they are free for the taking.

Rick Karlquist N6RK



J. Forster wrote:
 Good luck.

 About 20 years ago, I bought out the entire library of a local RD company
 for $10, including well over 50' of 7' high shelves of professional
 journals.

 (There were a number of books I wanted and I got more than my money's
 worth on those.}

 Anyway, I tried to sell the journals without a single nibble. Nobody
 wanted them. Luckily I bought the library on condition of not having to
 take what I didn't want, so didn't have to dealo with several tons of
 useless paper.

 There might be takers as a donation in India or something, IF you pay to
 ship them there. That's not for me.

 FWIW,

 -John

 




 I may still have the option to get something like 600 to 800 lbs of
 IRE publications.
 I think in South Dakota. If anyone is game/interested I can check.



 On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 6:15 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote:
 Its actully pretty pervasive these days. I hate those sights so now
 carefully see what googles pointing me to before jumping if possible.
 So a quick question and not to take the thread.
 Anyone know if the old IRE papers might exist someplace for free?
 I ran across a few of the actual magazines and for me it was actually a
 good read.
 Regards
 Paul.

 On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 8:12 AM, Peter Gottlieb n...@verizon.net
 wrote:

   I dropped my membership a couple of years ago.  Every single thing
 cost
   money; I couldn't even skim through papers to see if they were
   applicable without paying full price and it became increasingly
   difficult to justify membership PLUS paying for browsing privileges
   especially when there is actually very little of direct practical
 use.


   On 06/05/12, Attila Kinaliatt...@kinali.ch wrote:

   On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 00:26:56 -0700
    Hal Murray [1]hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote:
    The IEEE is particularly behind the times. I assume it's left
 over
   from when
    they could get away with it because they only had to jack up the
   price of
    printed stuff by a small amount. Some of this may trace back to
 their
    standards work where they could get away with high prices.
   Actually they are getting worse. IEEEs Computer Society started to
 send
   out yearly reminders that it's not ok to share documents you legaly
   acuired with your coworkers and friends. Telling them a few times
 that
   this is in contradiction to local law, which explicitly allows me
 to
 do
   that didn't change anything... That and also the wording that
 strongly
   suggests that anyone who is subscribed to the CDL is a thief
   (illegaly
   copying files and sharing them with the world) led me to the
 decision
   to cancel my subscription.
   Attila Kinali
   --
   It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded.
 All
   the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of
 no
   use without that foundation.
   -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
   ___
    time-nuts mailing list -- [2]time-nuts@febo.com
   To unsubscribe, go to
   [3]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
    and follow the instructions there.

 References

   1. mailto:hmur...@megapathdsl.net
   2. mailto:time-nuts@febo.com
   3. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to
 https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there.

 ___
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 To unsubscribe, go to
 https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there.

 ___
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 To unsubscribe, go to
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Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

2012-06-05 Thread Jerry Mulchin
I joined IEEE for a while a few years ago with the hopes of being able to
access the libraries I wanted most. What a shock to find out that I had to
pay additional monies to get access to those files. So I quit the IEEE
and now I keep getting Emails from them asking me to join again at a
reduced rate of course. Now I can't get rid of their constant bugging me
to re-join again. It seems once you get on their Mailing List you can't
get off. Argh!!!

Jerry

At 12:45 PM 6/5/2012, you wrote:
Good luck.

About 20 years ago, I bought out the entire library of a local RD company
for $10, including well over 50' of 7' high shelves of professional
journals.

(There were a number of books I wanted and I got more than my money's
worth on those.}

Anyway, I tried to sell the journals without a single nibble. Nobody
wanted them. Luckily I bought the library on condition of not having to
take what I didn't want, so didn't have to dealo with several tons of
useless paper.

There might be takers as a donation in India or something, IF you pay to
ship them there. That's not for me.

FWIW,

-John






 I may still have the option to get something like 600 to 800 lbs of
 IRE publications.
 I think in South Dakota. If anyone is game/interested I can check.



 On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 6:15 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote:
 Its actully pretty pervasive these days. I hate those sights so now
 carefully see what googles pointing me to before jumping if possible.
 So a quick question and not to take the thread.
 Anyone know if the old IRE papers might exist someplace for free?
 I ran across a few of the actual magazines and for me it was actually a
 good read.
 Regards
 Paul.

 On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 8:12 AM, Peter Gottlieb n...@verizon.net wrote:

 Â  I dropped my membership a couple of years ago. Â Every single thing
 cost
 Â  money; I couldn't even skim through papers to see if they were
 Â  applicable without paying full price and it became increasingly
 Â  difficult to justify membership PLUS paying for browsing privileges
 Â  especially when there is actually very little of direct practical
 use.


 Â  On 06/05/12, Attila Kinaliatt...@kinali.ch wrote:

 Â  On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 00:26:56 -0700
 Â  Â Hal Murray [1]hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote:
 Â   The IEEE is particularly behind the times. I assume it's left over
 Â  from when
 Â   they could get away with it because they only had to jack up the
 Â  price of
 Â   printed stuff by a small amount. Some of this may trace back to
 their
 Â   standards work where they could get away with high prices.
 Â  Actually they are getting worse. IEEEs Computer Society started to
 send
 Â  out yearly reminders that it's not ok to share documents you legaly
 Â  acuired with your coworkers and friends. Telling them a few times
 that
 Â  this is in contradiction to local law, which explicitly allows me to
 do
 Â  that didn't change anything... That and also the wording that
 strongly
 Â  suggests that anyone who is subscribed to the CDL is a thief
 Â  (illegaly
 Â  copying files and sharing them with the world) led me to the
 decision
 Â  to cancel my subscription.
 Â  Attila Kinali
 Â  --
 Â  It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All
 Â  the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of
 no
 Â  use without that foundation.
 Â  -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
 Â  ___
 Â  Â time-nuts mailing list -- [2]time-nuts@febo.com
 Â  To unsubscribe, go to
 Â  [3]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 Â  Â and follow the instructions there.

 References

 Â  1. mailto:hmur...@megapathdsl.net
 Â  2. mailto:time-nuts@febo.com
 Â  3. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to
 https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there.

 ___
 time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
 To unsubscribe, go to
 https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there.

 ___
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 To unsubscribe, go to
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 and follow the instructions there.





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Jerry Mulchin



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Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

2012-06-05 Thread Attila Kinali
On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 13:20:55 -0700
Rick Karlquist rich...@karlquist.com wrote:

 I have a bound set of IRE/IEEE Proceedings from about 1920 to 1985.
 If anyone wants them, they are free for the taking.

I wouldnt mind getting them.. although i guess i would need another
bookshelf or two. But the shipping costs to Switzerland would kill me ^^'


Attila Kinali
-- 
Why does it take years to find the answers to
the questions one should have asked long ago?

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Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

2012-06-05 Thread Peter Gottlieb
   Do it before libraries are outlawed!
   Getting information is getting more and more difficult.  Perhaps we are
   seeing the sunset of the age of information.


   On 06/05/12, Tom Harriscelephi...@gmail.com wrote:

   A previous employer of mine would not come up with a subscription to
   IEEE
   mags, so I found an alternative: I joined the local university library
   as
   an external borrower. This gave me a login to all the electronic mags
   that
   the library subscribed to, unfortunately it only worked inside the
   library's firewall, but I was able to download articles onto a USB
   stick.
   Days of reading fun for $120!
   --
   Tom Harris [1]celephi...@gmail.com
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   2. mailto:time-nuts@febo.com
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Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

2012-06-05 Thread Dr. David Kirkby

On 06/ 5/12 09:23 PM, Jerry Mulchin wrote:

I joined IEEE for a while a few years ago with the hopes of being able to
access the libraries I wanted most. What a shock to find out that I had to
pay additional monies to get access to those files. So I quit the IEEE
and now I keep getting Emails from them asking me to join again at a
reduced rate of course. Now I can't get rid of their constant bugging me
to re-join again. It seems once you get on their Mailing List you can't
get off. Argh!!!

Jerry


Yes, I still get the IEEE emails, though i have not personally been a IEEE 
member for about 10 years. I was only a member when my employer (Marconi) paid 
for it.


The problem is that a lot of the IEEE journal articles one finds useful, are not 
in the journal one has subscribed to. Most antenna papers are in the IEEE 
Antennas and Propagation journals, but sometimes interesting papers crop up in 
the most unexpected places. So unless you have a university subscription, its 
not really practical to find all the papers you want that the IEEE has published.


I am a member of the IET, which means I keep the C.Eng status, which is worth 
far more to me than any library access. The IET don't publish much of interest 
to me.


Dave

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Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

2012-06-05 Thread lists
Terman Library (Stanford) used let any schmuck use the computers in the 
library. You could email the articles to yourself. Now it requires a password.

They don't check for ID to enter the library, but the number of journals they 
get in dead tree edition is few.  

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Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

2012-06-05 Thread Rick Karlquist
li...@lazygranch.com wrote:
 Terman Library (Stanford) used let any schmuck use the computers in the
 library. You could email the articles to yourself. Now it requires a
 password.

BTW, the library in Terman hall is the Engineering Library
not the Terman Library.  A common misconception.

Rick


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Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

2012-06-05 Thread DaveH
(cough)  http://www.breakthepaywall.com/  (cough)

IE7 on up...

CAVEAT:  I have not tried these on the ACM  or IEEE sites but this works on
a couple sites I visit.

Dave 

 -Original Message-
 From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com 
 [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of paul swed
 Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 06:15
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant
 
 Its actully pretty pervasive these days. I hate those sights so now
 carefully see what googles pointing me to before jumping if possible.
 So a quick question and not to take the thread.
 Anyone know if the old IRE papers might exist someplace for free?
 I ran across a few of the actual magazines and for me it was 
 actually a
 good read.
 Regards
 Paul.
 
 On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 8:12 AM, Peter Gottlieb 
 n...@verizon.net wrote:
 
I dropped my membership a couple of years ago.  Every 
 single thing cost
money; I couldn't even skim through papers to see if they were
applicable without paying full price and it became increasingly
difficult to justify membership PLUS paying for browsing 
 privileges
especially when there is actually very little of direct 
 practical use.
 
 
On 06/05/12, Attila Kinaliatt...@kinali.ch wrote:
 
On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 00:26:56 -0700
 Hal Murray [1]hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote:
 The IEEE is particularly behind the times. I assume 
 it's left over
from when
 they could get away with it because they only had to jack up the
price of
 printed stuff by a small amount. Some of this may trace 
 back to their
 standards work where they could get away with high prices.
Actually they are getting worse. IEEEs Computer Society 
 started to send
out yearly reminders that it's not ok to share documents 
 you legaly
acuired with your coworkers and friends. Telling them a 
 few times that
this is in contradiction to local law, which explicitly 
 allows me to do
that didn't change anything... That and also the wording 
 that strongly
suggests that anyone who is subscribed to the CDL is a thief
(illegaly
copying files and sharing them with the world) led me to 
 the decision
to cancel my subscription.
Attila Kinali
--
It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately 
 founded. All
the prosperity and technological sophistication in the 
 world is of no
use without that foundation.
-- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
___
 time-nuts mailing list -- [2]time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
[3]https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there.
 
  References
 
1. mailto:hmur...@megapathdsl.net
2. mailto:time-nuts@febo.com
3. https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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 ___
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 To unsubscribe, go to 
 https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
 and follow the instructions there.


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