Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN vs. NI was: AW:Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN

[Prologix]

Closing the loop...

Latest firmware updates available at http://prologix.biz includes the
++savecfg command to temporarily disable automatic saving of configuration
parameters (including address). 
Please see manual for details.

Regards,
Abdul  


-Message d'origine-
De : time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] De la
part de Mark Sims
Envoyé : lundi 6 juillet 2009 18:54
À : time-nuts@febo.com
Objet : [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN vs. NI was: AW: Prologix
GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN


The Prologix adapter has a ++addr command for changing the GPIB address.
You can select different instruments that way.  

Unfortunately, the version I looked seems to have a potentially fatal flaw.
When you change the ++addr,  the device writes the internal microprocessor
EEPROM.  The EEPROM is speced a 1 million write cycles.  If you changed
instruments at once a second,  in under two weeks the chip could be toast.
My app could have worn out the chip in under a day...   

All this assumes that Prologix did not implement some sort of elaborate wear
leveling scheme in their software,  but I suspect not.  They seem to have
intended one to set up the device to talk to one instrument then save that
configuration in the chip.  Dynamically hammering the thing to death with
address changes was not the intention of the ++addr command.  



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Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN vs. NI was: AW: Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN

[Chuck Harris]

Hi Mark,

Mark Sims wrote:

The Prologix adapter has a ++addr command for changing the GPIB address.  You 
can select different instruments that
way.

Unfortunately, the version I looked seems to have a potentially fatal flaw.  
When you change the ++addr,  the device
writes the internal microprocessor EEPROM.  The EEPROM is speced a 1 million 
write cycles.  If you changed
instruments at once a second,  in under two weeks the chip could be toast.  My 
app could have worn out the chip in
under a day...


Hmmm?  This is what Microchip says:

The data EEPROM is a high-endurance, byte
addressable array that has been optimized for the
storage of frequently changing information (eg.,
program variables or other data that are updated often).
When variables in one section change frequently, while
variables in another section do not change, it is possible
to exceed the total number of write cycles to the
EEPROM (Specification D124) without exceeding the
total number of write cycles to a single byte
(Specifications D120 and D120A).  If this is the case,
then a refresh of the array must be performed.  For this
reason, variables that change infrequently (such as
constants, IDs, calibration, etc.) should be stored in
Flash program memory.

It isn't that the EEPROM wears out, but more that it loses
the values in adjacent cells... unless you refresh them
before 1 million cycles occurs.

All that aside, it isn't clear to me that the ++addr even
writes to EEPROM.

In fact, in the section of my prologix manual where it discusses
the use of EEPROM, it specifically says that the EEPROM stores
configuration information, and that addr is not configuration
information, and must be set as needed.

-Chuck Harris

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Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN vs. NI was: AW:Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN

[Don Latham]

Prologix: Just for ducks, if there is room, there  to be a
GPIB-address-addressed-parameter storage for, say, 5-6 devices?
Don

Prologix
>
> It is pretty straightforward to add a new command to turn on/off automatic
> saving of configuration parameters in the next firmware update.
> ETA is a week or two. Please email supp...@prologix.biz if you like to be
> notified when the update is available.
>
> Firmware updates may be downloaded from http://prologix.biz
>
> Thanks for all the feedback!
>
> Regards,
> Abdul
> Prologix
>
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
> Behalf Of Samuel D. [x86/CPC]
> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 10:08 AM
> To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN vs. NI was:
> AW:Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN
>
> Damn, that's a big flaw.
>
> The software I'm working on send three "++addr" commands per second.
>
> Only 4 days @24h/day to reach the limit :-/
>
>
> -Message d'origine-
> De : time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] De la
> part de Mark Sims Envoyé : lundi 6 juillet 2009 18:54 À :
> time-nuts@febo.com
> Objet : [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN vs. NI was: AW:
> Prologix
> GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN
>
>
> The Prologix adapter has a ++addr command for changing the GPIB address.
> You can select different instruments that way.
>
> Unfortunately, the version I looked seems to have a potentially fatal
> flaw.
> When you change the ++addr,  the device writes the internal microprocessor
> EEPROM.  The EEPROM is speced a 1 million write cycles.  If you changed
> instruments at once a second,  in under two weeks the chip could be toast.
> My app could have worn out the chip in under a day...
>
> All this assumes that Prologix did not implement some sort of elaborate
> wear
> leveling scheme in their software,  but I suspect not.  They seem to have
> intended one to set up the device to talk to one instrument then save that
> configuration in the chip.  Dynamically hammering the thing to death with
> address changes was not the intention of the ++addr command.
>
> I wound up implementing  a GPIB controller (with Prologix emulator) with
> my
> MegaDonkey touch screen LCD controller.  It even included a HPGL/PCL
> plotter
> routine to draw instrument plots on the 160x80 LCD.
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
> _
> Windows Live™ SkyDrive™: Get 25 GB of free online storage.
> http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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>
>
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>


-- 
Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLP
17850 Six Mile Road
POB 134
Huson, MT, 59846
VOX 406-626-4304
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com


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Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN vs. NI was: AW:Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN

[Prologix]

It is pretty straightforward to add a new command to turn on/off automatic
saving of configuration parameters in the next firmware update.
ETA is a week or two. Please email supp...@prologix.biz if you like to be
notified when the update is available.

Firmware updates may be downloaded from http://prologix.biz

Thanks for all the feedback!

Regards,
Abdul 
Prologix

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Samuel D. [x86/CPC]
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 10:08 AM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN vs. NI was:
AW:Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN

Damn, that's a big flaw. 

The software I'm working on send three "++addr" commands per second. 

Only 4 days @24h/day to reach the limit :-/


-Message d'origine-
De : time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] De la
part de Mark Sims Envoyé : lundi 6 juillet 2009 18:54 À : time-nuts@febo.com
Objet : [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN vs. NI was: AW: Prologix
GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN


The Prologix adapter has a ++addr command for changing the GPIB address.
You can select different instruments that way.  

Unfortunately, the version I looked seems to have a potentially fatal flaw.
When you change the ++addr,  the device writes the internal microprocessor
EEPROM.  The EEPROM is speced a 1 million write cycles.  If you changed
instruments at once a second,  in under two weeks the chip could be toast.
My app could have worn out the chip in under a day...   

All this assumes that Prologix did not implement some sort of elaborate wear
leveling scheme in their software,  but I suspect not.  They seem to have
intended one to set up the device to talk to one instrument then save that
configuration in the chip.  Dynamically hammering the thing to death with
address changes was not the intention of the ++addr command.  

I wound up implementing  a GPIB controller (with Prologix emulator) with my
MegaDonkey touch screen LCD controller.  It even included a HPGL/PCL plotter
routine to draw instrument plots on the 160x80 LCD.







_
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Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN vs. NI was: AW:Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN

[Robert Darlington]

The chips I used in the past didn't need to get refreshed and they were pin
compatible with an eeprom I was using in a PIC circuit with an i2c
interface.  They were basically identical with the exception that they don't
wear out before the sun expands and swallows the earth, and they can be
clocked many times faster than the i2c and spi spec.

-Bob

On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 11:40 AM, David C. Partridge <
david.partri...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

> I thought FRAM required a refresh cycle like DRAM - or did I get my brain
> cells scrambled?
>
> D.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
> Behalf Of Robert Darlington
> Sent: 06 July 2009 18:17
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN vs. NI was:
> AW:Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN
>
> You can *probably* replace the EEPROM with an FRAM chip ...
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN vs. NI was: AW: Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN

[Don Latham]

I have used an interface from Softmark. I don't know if multiple
interfaces can be applied, but they are USB. There's no local storage,
everything is in the host, and I have not timed the use. OTH, they can be
bought for about $40US on ebay or straight from the Aussies at softmark.
Comes with dll's and an app...
Don

Robert Darlington
> You can *probably* replace the EEPROM with an FRAM chip (or even a free
> sample of an FRAM chip) to get around the wear issues.  I haven't opened
> my
> unit, but this is a serious issue as I'm gearing up to write software to
> make a "poor man's" network analyzer using a frequency synthesizer and a
> volt meter, switching between them pretty much as fast as possible.  Maybe
> I'll just use that NI card ;-)
>
> -Bob
>
> On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Samuel D. [x86/CPC]
> wrote:
>
>> Damn, that's a big flaw.
>>
>> The software I'm working on send three "++addr" commands per second.
>>
>> Only 4 days @24h/day to reach the limit :-/
>>
>>
>> -Message d'origine-
>> De : time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] De
>> la
>> part de Mark Sims
>> Envoyé : lundi 6 juillet 2009 18:54
>> À : time-nuts@febo.com
>> Objet : [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN vs. NI was: AW:
>> Prologix
>> GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN
>>
>>
>> The Prologix adapter has a ++addr command for changing the GPIB address.
>> You can select different instruments that way.
>>
>> Unfortunately, the version I looked seems to have a potentially fatal
>> flaw.
>> When you change the ++addr,  the device writes the internal
>> microprocessor
>> EEPROM.  The EEPROM is speced a 1 million write cycles.  If you changed
>> instruments at once a second,  in under two weeks the chip could be
>> toast.
>> My app could have worn out the chip in under a day...
>>
>> All this assumes that Prologix did not implement some sort of elaborate
>> wear
>> leveling scheme in their software,  but I suspect not.  They seem to
>> have
>> intended one to set up the device to talk to one instrument then save
>> that
>> configuration in the chip.  Dynamically hammering the thing to death
>> with
>> address changes was not the intention of the ++addr command.
>>
>> I wound up implementing  a GPIB controller (with Prologix emulator) with
>> my
>> MegaDonkey touch screen LCD controller.  It even included a HPGL/PCL
>> plotter
>> routine to draw instrument plots on the 160x80 LCD.
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _
>> Windows Live™ SkyDrive™: Get 25 GB of free online storage.
>> http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>>
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
> ___
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> To unsubscribe, go to
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> and follow the instructions there.
>


-- 
Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLP
17850 Six Mile Road
POB 134
Huson, MT, 59846
VOX 406-626-4304
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com


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Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN vs. NI was: AW:Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN

[David C. Partridge]

I thought FRAM required a refresh cycle like DRAM - or did I get my brain
cells scrambled?

D. 

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Robert Darlington
Sent: 06 July 2009 18:17
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN vs. NI was:
AW:Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN

You can *probably* replace the EEPROM with an FRAM chip ...


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Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN vs. NI was: AW: Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN

[Robert Darlington]

You can *probably* replace the EEPROM with an FRAM chip (or even a free
sample of an FRAM chip) to get around the wear issues.  I haven't opened my
unit, but this is a serious issue as I'm gearing up to write software to
make a "poor man's" network analyzer using a frequency synthesizer and a
volt meter, switching between them pretty much as fast as possible.  Maybe
I'll just use that NI card ;-)

-Bob

On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Samuel D. [x86/CPC] wrote:

> Damn, that's a big flaw.
>
> The software I'm working on send three "++addr" commands per second.
>
> Only 4 days @24h/day to reach the limit :-/
>
>
> -Message d'origine-
> De : time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] De la
> part de Mark Sims
> Envoyé : lundi 6 juillet 2009 18:54
> À : time-nuts@febo.com
> Objet : [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN vs. NI was: AW: Prologix
> GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN
>
>
> The Prologix adapter has a ++addr command for changing the GPIB address.
> You can select different instruments that way.
>
> Unfortunately, the version I looked seems to have a potentially fatal flaw.
> When you change the ++addr,  the device writes the internal microprocessor
> EEPROM.  The EEPROM is speced a 1 million write cycles.  If you changed
> instruments at once a second,  in under two weeks the chip could be toast.
> My app could have worn out the chip in under a day...
>
> All this assumes that Prologix did not implement some sort of elaborate
> wear
> leveling scheme in their software,  but I suspect not.  They seem to have
> intended one to set up the device to talk to one instrument then save that
> configuration in the chip.  Dynamically hammering the thing to death with
> address changes was not the intention of the ++addr command.
>
> I wound up implementing  a GPIB controller (with Prologix emulator) with my
> MegaDonkey touch screen LCD controller.  It even included a HPGL/PCL
> plotter
> routine to draw instrument plots on the 160x80 LCD.
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
> _
> Windows Live™ SkyDrive™: Get 25 GB of free online storage.
> http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN vs. NI was: AW: Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN

[Samuel D. [x86/CPC]]

Damn, that's a big flaw. 

The software I'm working on send three "++addr" commands per second. 

Only 4 days @24h/day to reach the limit :-/


-Message d'origine-
De : time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] De la
part de Mark Sims
Envoyé : lundi 6 juillet 2009 18:54
À : time-nuts@febo.com
Objet : [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN vs. NI was: AW: Prologix
GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN


The Prologix adapter has a ++addr command for changing the GPIB address.
You can select different instruments that way.  

Unfortunately, the version I looked seems to have a potentially fatal flaw.
When you change the ++addr,  the device writes the internal microprocessor
EEPROM.  The EEPROM is speced a 1 million write cycles.  If you changed
instruments at once a second,  in under two weeks the chip could be toast.
My app could have worn out the chip in under a day...   

All this assumes that Prologix did not implement some sort of elaborate wear
leveling scheme in their software,  but I suspect not.  They seem to have
intended one to set up the device to talk to one instrument then save that
configuration in the chip.  Dynamically hammering the thing to death with
address changes was not the intention of the ++addr command.  

I wound up implementing  a GPIB controller (with Prologix emulator) with my
MegaDonkey touch screen LCD controller.  It even included a HPGL/PCL plotter
routine to draw instrument plots on the 160x80 LCD.







_
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Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN vs. NI was: AW: Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN

[Lux, James P]

On 7/6/09 5:37 AM, "John Ackermann N8UR"  wrote:


> 
> Of course, an alternative is to assign one USB or LAN GPIB unit to each
> instrument, but that gets expensive.
> 

Yes, if you're scrounging old test equipment for $100 a copy.  If you have
chunks of gear that cost $10K each, then $100-200 for individual interfaces
might not be a bad thing, especially considering how much new GPIB cables
cost.  I'd much rather plug and unplug Cat5 network cables from a hub than
deal with a stack of 3 or 4 of those GPIB connectors.

Now that I think about it, if the LAN-GPIB adapter widgets did PoE, that
would  be even slicker. 


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Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN vs. NI was: AW: Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN

[John Ackermann N8UR]

A bit further to Ulrich's point... one area where I had some problems 
using serial/gpib converters in the old days, and I think that at least 
early versions of the Prologix USB unit suffered from, is talking to 
multiple instruments off the same GPIB controller.  I never found a 
satisfactory way to accomplish that with anything other than a "real" 
GPIB card.  (But Prologix may have addressed this by now.)


I think GPIB applications break down into a couple of categories:  (a) 
simple trigger-then-read from a single instrument, which is what most of 
us do most of the time, and (b) multi-instrument control.  The second 
case is a lot harder, particularly if you need to use SRQ and other 
out-of-band commands.


Of course, an alternative is to assign one USB or LAN GPIB unit to each 
instrument, but that gets expensive.


John


Ulrich Bangert wrote:

Gents,

as you know I have tried in my utility EZGPIB to supply the user with high
level functions for data communications which keep him away from the low
level tasks of direct communication with the interface. Since EZGPIB not
only supports the Prologix products (USB & LAN) but also GPIB32.DLL based
products (i.e. the complete line of NI GPIB interfaces) a script written in
EZGPIB is independent from a certain manufacturer to a high degree. 


That is the point that I wanted to add to the current discussion.

Please allow me to note that this independence has its limits that I just
happened to come across. I had tried to run a script for my SR620 counter
which was set to a gate time of 100 s. The script was a quick and dirty one
and set the timeout for GPIB communications to 120 s so that there was
enough time for the counter to answer, even if the data was read immediatly
after tze start of a new measurement. This script would not run ok on my
Prologix GPIB-ETHERNET interface although I was sure that is was ok when I
wrote it. 


It took me some time to realize that I was fooling myself: I had written the
script with my NI interface which's DLL allows for some decades of magnitude
of timeouts while the Prologix provide a maximum timeout of 4000 ms. That
means: Some things cannot translated 1:1 between different manufactures. I
changed the script so that the conunter's status byte was read once a second
and the "data valid bit" is detected in the status byte. Then the counter's
result is read. This of course run ok (also on NI hardware). I will include
a warning in the manual of EZGPIB.



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Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN

[Chuck Harris]

Chad Simpson wrote:


I'm looking for something that I can write python or tcl or shell scripts
for and send strings to a GPIB device, and get strings back.  I'm trying to
get away from the LabView .vi model.  So, this looks fairly good, that way.

Jim




Yes, me too - shell or python would be great, I'm presently learning the
latter.  I just found PyVISA, which looks like it might be useful, possibly
pythonlabtools as well.


Then you should like the prologix usb adapter.  It took me maybe a half hour
to write an interface to it in python, and then I was up and running.

A simple example:
-

#! /usr/bin/env python

# 7854.py - try out some gpib data collection using the Prologix
gpib-usb controller
#

import os
import termios
import serial
import time

def gpib_init() :
ser.write("++mode 1\r")
time.sleep(0.1)
ser.write("++ifc\r")
time.sleep(0.1)
ser.write("++auto 0\r")
time.sleep(0.1)
ser.write("++eoi 0\r")
time.sleep(0.1)


def gpib_read(addr):
ser.write("++addr " + str(addr) + "\r")
time.sleep(0.1)
ser.write("++read eoi\r")
return ser.readline()

def gpib_write(addr,gpibstr):
ser.write("++addr " + str(addr) + "\r")
time.sleep(0.1)
ser.write(gpibstr + "\r")


ser = serial.Serial('/dev/ttyUSB0',rtscts=0,timeout=1)

ser.write("++ver\r")
print ser.readline()

gpib_init()

gpib_write(10,"ID?\r")
print "ID= " + gpib_read(10) + "\r"

gpib_write(10,"VMDR\r")
gpib_write(10,"HMDB\r")

gpib_write(10,"1 0 2 4 >P/W AVG10\r")
gpib_read(10)

gpib_write(10,"SENDX\r")
time.sleep(4)

print "X=" + gpib_read(10) + "\r"
print "X=" + gpib_read(10) + "\r"

-

-Chuck Harris

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Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN

[Chad Simpson]

Good points...  and pretty much in line with my thinking.  Based on the
comments here, I'm strongly leaning toward the LAN version now.  I'll
definitely have a closer look at the KE5FX toolkit, there are some very
interesting applications there.

Thanks everyone for your input.  Looks like I have a bit more homework to do
on the software end of things, but this has been very informative.

- Chad.


On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 7:50 AM, Esa Heikkinen  wrote:

> If it's about "Ethernet vs. USB" queston I would always suggest Ethernet. -
> With any kind of equipment in question!
>
> Ethernet is simpy much better: you don't need device drivers, it works with
> longer cables (over 10 times longer than USB), it's routable, you can use it
> remotely (VPN), you can turn it wireless (WLAN) and because there are no
> need for drivers it's much more platform / OS independent than USB.
>
> USB is good for devices which can draw their power from USB port, like
> mices or keyboards. But it has many drawbacks: some USB devices won't work
> with Windows Vista. Some USB devices has stupid drivers which need to be
> installed for each USB port in the computer. I'm talking about the issue
> when you install a driver and later plug it into different USB port the
> system will ask you to isntall the driver again. Also, many USB devices
> based on some kind of USB-Serial chip (like FTDI) may have different
> COM-addresses for different USB ports and this leads to same kind of issue:
> it works only with one USB port witout changing some settings. In the worst
> case you must remember the corrent USB port for each device.
>
> With Ethernet it's not essential which port (or to which switch) you plug
> in your device, as long the switch you are using is a part of your local
> network (or there is VPN remote connection to your network).
>
> But... of course this in only my opinion. :-)
>
> I have used the Prologix (LAN version) with KE5FX GPIB toolkit. You can use
> it for capturing plots from oscilloscopes, spectrum analyzers etc. and write
> some kind of command scripts for the instruments. Maybe it's not best
> possible software for Prologix but it it's free.
>
> --
> 73s!
> Esa
> OH4KJU
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN

[Chad Simpson]

Yes, it should be pretty simple, even in shell.  I have some
noodle-scratching to do on retrieving graphical output from instruments
though.

I'm not terribly concerned about being compatible with other hardware, as
long as the hardware I get won't be left useless or anchored to an archaic
OS because there are drivers etc. which become 'unsupported' by the vendor.

- Chad.


On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Robert Darlington wrote:

> If you are willing to (or want to) write your own software, than the
> Prologix Ethernet adapter is the way to go.  I've done it in PERL under
> Solaris and IRIX without any trouble.  Just open a socket connection on
> port
> 23 and send over text commands.  Very easy.  MUCH easier than using NI
> products.  The trade-off is that your software will only work with the
> Prologix box and guarantees incompatability for those without one.  The
> upside is that it works over a network, even wireless if you plug it into a
> wireless bridge.  Real handy when you don't want to stay tied to a
> workbench.  These are extra nice if all you have is a laptop.   Mine is
> currently in a drawer, but I'm not willing to part with it because it's
> just
> that handy when you need something done fast.
>
> -Bob
>
> On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 8:04 PM, Chad Simpson  >wrote:
>
> > On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Lux, James P  > >wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > On 7/4/09 8:36 PM, "Robert Darlington"  wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have a GPIB-LAN, and it works.  You basically telnet to it and
> issue
> > > > commands either manually or via software.  It works with EZ-GPIB
> > without
> > > any
> > > > trouble.  It's extremely easy to use.
> > > >
> > > > That being said, it is not a substitute for a GPIB card from NI.  I
> > wrote
> > > a
> > > > spiffy software program in VB to pull data from a Tektronix 7854
> scope
> > > that
> > > > nobody can use unless they have a GPIB-LAN adapter.  It won't work
> with
> > > > LabView or anything else out there with the exception of EZGPIB.  If
> > you
> > > > care about compatibility with canned software that talks GPIB, these
> > > devices
> > > > are not the way to go.  If you want to get up and running very
> quickly
> > or
> > > > just want to use EZGPIB, it's fine.  Ultimately my adapter is sitting
> > in
> > > a
> > > > drawer and I bought a PCI-GPIB card on eBay for about $100.
> > > >
> > > > -Bob
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm looking for something that I can write python or tcl or shell
> scripts
> > > for and send strings to a GPIB device, and get strings back.  I'm
> trying
> > to
> > > get away from the LabView .vi model.  So, this looks fairly good, that
> > way.
> > >
> > > Jim
> > >
> >
> >
> > Yes, me too - shell or python would be great, I'm presently learning the
> > latter.  I just found PyVISA, which looks like it might be useful,
> possibly
> > pythonlabtools as well.
> >
> > I shied away from the NI devices for a couple of reasons...  1) I no
> longer
> > have a suitable machine with PCI slot.  2) Since this is for hobby use,
> the
> > more expensive interfaces like the GPIB-ENET/100 are at a cost
> > disadvantage.  3) I would like to build on a platform with minimal risk
> of
> > obsolescence.  I am already down to a single virtual machine running XP,
> > and
> > if at all possible it will be my last ever copy of Windows.  So I'd
> rather
> > not invest in tools which require Windows or proprietary
> (single-platform)
> > drivers.  Shell / python / driverless is appealing as it should be highly
> > portable and well supported in the future.
> >
> > I did find OSX drivers for the Prologix USB on their site - looks like it
> > uses the FTDI chip.  So drivers should not be an issue.  I wasn't clear
> on
> > how the LAN version worked though, but driverless / Telnet makes sense.
> >
> > - Chad.
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
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Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN

[Robert Darlington]

If you are willing to (or want to) write your own software, than the
Prologix Ethernet adapter is the way to go.  I've done it in PERL under
Solaris and IRIX without any trouble.  Just open a socket connection on port
23 and send over text commands.  Very easy.  MUCH easier than using NI
products.  The trade-off is that your software will only work with the
Prologix box and guarantees incompatability for those without one.  The
upside is that it works over a network, even wireless if you plug it into a
wireless bridge.  Real handy when you don't want to stay tied to a
workbench.  These are extra nice if all you have is a laptop.   Mine is
currently in a drawer, but I'm not willing to part with it because it's just
that handy when you need something done fast.

-Bob

On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 8:04 PM, Chad Simpson wrote:

> On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Lux, James P  >wrote:
>
> >
> > On 7/4/09 8:36 PM, "Robert Darlington"  wrote:
> >
> > > I have a GPIB-LAN, and it works.  You basically telnet to it and issue
> > > commands either manually or via software.  It works with EZ-GPIB
> without
> > any
> > > trouble.  It's extremely easy to use.
> > >
> > > That being said, it is not a substitute for a GPIB card from NI.  I
> wrote
> > a
> > > spiffy software program in VB to pull data from a Tektronix 7854 scope
> > that
> > > nobody can use unless they have a GPIB-LAN adapter.  It won't work with
> > > LabView or anything else out there with the exception of EZGPIB.  If
> you
> > > care about compatibility with canned software that talks GPIB, these
> > devices
> > > are not the way to go.  If you want to get up and running very quickly
> or
> > > just want to use EZGPIB, it's fine.  Ultimately my adapter is sitting
> in
> > a
> > > drawer and I bought a PCI-GPIB card on eBay for about $100.
> > >
> > > -Bob
> >
> >
> > I'm looking for something that I can write python or tcl or shell scripts
> > for and send strings to a GPIB device, and get strings back.  I'm trying
> to
> > get away from the LabView .vi model.  So, this looks fairly good, that
> way.
> >
> > Jim
> >
>
>
> Yes, me too - shell or python would be great, I'm presently learning the
> latter.  I just found PyVISA, which looks like it might be useful, possibly
> pythonlabtools as well.
>
> I shied away from the NI devices for a couple of reasons...  1) I no longer
> have a suitable machine with PCI slot.  2) Since this is for hobby use, the
> more expensive interfaces like the GPIB-ENET/100 are at a cost
> disadvantage.  3) I would like to build on a platform with minimal risk of
> obsolescence.  I am already down to a single virtual machine running XP,
> and
> if at all possible it will be my last ever copy of Windows.  So I'd rather
> not invest in tools which require Windows or proprietary (single-platform)
> drivers.  Shell / python / driverless is appealing as it should be highly
> portable and well supported in the future.
>
> I did find OSX drivers for the Prologix USB on their site - looks like it
> uses the FTDI chip.  So drivers should not be an issue.  I wasn't clear on
> how the LAN version worked though, but driverless / Telnet makes sense.
>
> - Chad.
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Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN

[Chad Simpson]

On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 10:40 PM, Lux, James P wrote:

>
> On 7/4/09 8:36 PM, "Robert Darlington"  wrote:
>
> > I have a GPIB-LAN, and it works.  You basically telnet to it and issue
> > commands either manually or via software.  It works with EZ-GPIB without
> any
> > trouble.  It's extremely easy to use.
> >
> > That being said, it is not a substitute for a GPIB card from NI.  I wrote
> a
> > spiffy software program in VB to pull data from a Tektronix 7854 scope
> that
> > nobody can use unless they have a GPIB-LAN adapter.  It won't work with
> > LabView or anything else out there with the exception of EZGPIB.  If you
> > care about compatibility with canned software that talks GPIB, these
> devices
> > are not the way to go.  If you want to get up and running very quickly or
> > just want to use EZGPIB, it's fine.  Ultimately my adapter is sitting in
> a
> > drawer and I bought a PCI-GPIB card on eBay for about $100.
> >
> > -Bob
>
>
> I'm looking for something that I can write python or tcl or shell scripts
> for and send strings to a GPIB device, and get strings back.  I'm trying to
> get away from the LabView .vi model.  So, this looks fairly good, that way.
>
> Jim
>


Yes, me too - shell or python would be great, I'm presently learning the
latter.  I just found PyVISA, which looks like it might be useful, possibly
pythonlabtools as well.

I shied away from the NI devices for a couple of reasons...  1) I no longer
have a suitable machine with PCI slot.  2) Since this is for hobby use, the
more expensive interfaces like the GPIB-ENET/100 are at a cost
disadvantage.  3) I would like to build on a platform with minimal risk of
obsolescence.  I am already down to a single virtual machine running XP, and
if at all possible it will be my last ever copy of Windows.  So I'd rather
not invest in tools which require Windows or proprietary (single-platform)
drivers.  Shell / python / driverless is appealing as it should be highly
portable and well supported in the future.

I did find OSX drivers for the Prologix USB on their site - looks like it
uses the FTDI chip.  So drivers should not be an issue.  I wasn't clear on
how the LAN version worked though, but driverless / Telnet makes sense.

- Chad.
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Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN

[Prologix]

Some clarifications...

Prologix GPIB-USB and GPIB-LAN have identical command interfaces. Programs
written for one can be easily ported to the other. Both products are
compatible with EZGPIB and KE5FX GPIB toolkit applications.

GPIB-LAN, being a network device, does not require special drivers nor is
limited by USB cable tethering distance. Also, GPIB-LAN can be wireless
enabled (using a bridge).

GPIB-USB drivers are available for Windows Vista, Max OS X (Intel and
non-Intel), and for all common operating systems.

Python, C, C#, VB.Net, MATLAB and LabVIEW samples are available at our
website. (You can communicate with Prologix controllers using LabVIEW Serial
Port functions or TCP functions. However, they are not compatible with
programs (VIs) that use GPIB functions.)

Regards,
Abdul
http://prologix.biz 

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Hal Murray
Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 8:26 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN


> Thus the GPIB-LAN device should work with OS-X whereas the GPIB-USB 
> device will need a driver (currently there doesn't appear to be one so 
> you would need to roll your own).

I'd be surprised if it takes any driver work.

I have one of the older Prologix units.  It uses one of the FTDI USB to
serial chips.  I doubt if they have changed anything as drastic as this.

I haven't used OS-X.  There are 2 chips that have mostly cornered the market
on USB-to-serial adapters: FTDI and Prolific.  I expect most OSes (and
distributions) include well debugged drivers for both.



--
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's.  I hate spam.




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Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN

[Demian Martin]

I looked at the Prologix stuff long and hard BUT it is something of a dead
end. I didn't want to write new software and I have some existing apps that
I use. I found an NI gpib-enet (

http://digital.ni.com/public.nsf/allkb/D2E1B6D23CD75B0686256D4E006E980D ) on
ebay that has worked fine for me. The first gen is a little bit of a problem
to use since it predated DHCP and setting its IP address is involved. Ones
its up all of the NI GPIB stuff work with it as does other GPIB stuff. I
would get the gpib-enet 100 for a business application since it supports
DHCP and NI supports it in the latest releases. 
 
Demian Martin
Product Design Service
 
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Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN

[Esa Heikkinen]

If it's about "Ethernet vs. USB" queston I would always suggest 
Ethernet. - With any kind of equipment in question!


Ethernet is simpy much better: you don't need device drivers, it works 
with longer cables (over 10 times longer than USB), it's routable, you 
can use it remotely (VPN), you can turn it wireless (WLAN) and because 
there are no need for drivers it's much more platform / OS independent 
than USB.


USB is good for devices which can draw their power from USB port, like 
mices or keyboards. But it has many drawbacks: some USB devices won't 
work with Windows Vista. Some USB devices has stupid drivers which need 
to be installed for each USB port in the computer. I'm talking about the 
issue when you install a driver and later plug it into different USB 
port the system will ask you to isntall the driver again. Also, many USB 
devices based on some kind of USB-Serial chip (like FTDI) may have 
different COM-addresses for different USB ports and this leads to same 
kind of issue: it works only with one USB port witout changing some 
settings. In the worst case you must remember the corrent USB port for 
each device.


With Ethernet it's not essential which port (or to which switch) you 
plug in your device, as long the switch you are using is a part of your 
local network (or there is VPN remote connection to your network).


But... of course this in only my opinion. :-)

I have used the Prologix (LAN version) with KE5FX GPIB toolkit. You can 
use it for capturing plots from oscilloscopes, spectrum analyzers etc. 
and write some kind of command scripts for the instruments. Maybe it's 
not best possible software for Prologix but it it's free.


--
73s!
Esa
OH4KJU

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Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN

[wje]

   Lux, James P wrote:


I'm looking for something that I can write python or tcl or shell scripts
for and send strings to a GPIB device, and get strings back.  I'm trying to
get away from the LabView .vi model.  So, this looks fairly good, that way.

Jim

I have one of the LAN units also. I've written a number of scripts for it using
Java. Anything that can open a port can use the device easily.


Bill Ezell
--
They said 'Windows or better'
so I used Linux.
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Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN

[philip...@gmx.de]

Hi Chad,

i have some Agilent E5810A GPIB-LAN-Gateways for sale. They are used but
like new. You can got more informations here: http://129.69.137.180/gpib/

Price is 299 EUR incl. german VAT plus shipping. You will get an invoice. We
also have GPIB-cables 0.5m in stock, 10 EUR for one cable.

If you or anybody else is interessted or needs more information, please let
my know by eMail.

Best Regards
Philipp



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Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN

[Lux, James P]

On 7/4/09 8:36 PM, "Robert Darlington"  wrote:

> I have a GPIB-LAN, and it works.  You basically telnet to it and issue
> commands either manually or via software.  It works with EZ-GPIB without any
> trouble.  It's extremely easy to use.
> 
> That being said, it is not a substitute for a GPIB card from NI.  I wrote a
> spiffy software program in VB to pull data from a Tektronix 7854 scope that
> nobody can use unless they have a GPIB-LAN adapter.  It won't work with
> LabView or anything else out there with the exception of EZGPIB.  If you
> care about compatibility with canned software that talks GPIB, these devices
> are not the way to go.  If you want to get up and running very quickly or
> just want to use EZGPIB, it's fine.  Ultimately my adapter is sitting in a
> drawer and I bought a PCI-GPIB card on eBay for about $100.
> 
> -Bob


I'm looking for something that I can write python or tcl or shell scripts
for and send strings to a GPIB device, and get strings back.  I'm trying to
get away from the LabView .vi model.  So, this looks fairly good, that way.

Jim


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Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN

[Robert Darlington]

I have a GPIB-LAN, and it works.  You basically telnet to it and issue
commands either manually or via software.  It works with EZ-GPIB without any
trouble.  It's extremely easy to use.

That being said, it is not a substitute for a GPIB card from NI.  I wrote a
spiffy software program in VB to pull data from a Tektronix 7854 scope that
nobody can use unless they have a GPIB-LAN adapter.  It won't work with
LabView or anything else out there with the exception of EZGPIB.  If you
care about compatibility with canned software that talks GPIB, these devices
are not the way to go.  If you want to get up and running very quickly or
just want to use EZGPIB, it's fine.  Ultimately my adapter is sitting in a
drawer and I bought a PCI-GPIB card on eBay for about $100.

-Bob

On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 8:43 PM, Chad Simpson wrote:

> Hello all, this is my first post to the list...
>
> Like many of you, over time I've acquired enough test equipment with the
> GPIB interface that I'm wanting to make use of it.  I have narrowed the
> choice down to one of the Prologix devices (GPIB-USB or GPIB-LAN), but I
> haven't found much information about the differences between the two.
>  Apart
> from the obvious (price, tether distance from the PC), can anyone comment
> on
> the pros & cons of the two?  I am running all Macs, so anything pertinent
> to
> using these interfaces under OS X would be especially welcome.  I do have
> Win XP running under vmware, so if necessary I can use that, though I
> prefer
> to try and run everything under OS X.
>
> Some specific questions I have:
> - How well do the different drivers work?
> - Is one faster than the other?
> - What about compatability with various software?  Are the software
> interfaces really different, or similar enough that either could be used
> with minimal tweaking?
>
> Thanks, and have a great 4th of July everyone!
> Chad.
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Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN

[Hal Murray]

> Thus the GPIB-LAN device should work with OS-X whereas the GPIB-USB
> device will need a driver (currently there doesn't appear to be one so
> you would need to roll your own).

I'd be surprised if it takes any driver work.

I have one of the older Prologix units.  It uses one of the FTDI USB to 
serial chips.  I doubt if they have changed anything as drastic as this.

I haven't used OS-X.  There are 2 chips that have mostly cornered the market 
on USB-to-serial adapters: FTDI and Prolific.  I expect most OSes (and 
distributions) include well debugged drivers for both.



-- 
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's.  I hate spam.




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Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN

[Bruce Griffiths]

Chad Simpson wrote:
> Hello all, this is my first post to the list...
>
> Like many of you, over time I've acquired enough test equipment with the
> GPIB interface that I'm wanting to make use of it.  I have narrowed the
> choice down to one of the Prologix devices (GPIB-USB or GPIB-LAN), but I
> haven't found much information about the differences between the two.  Apart
> from the obvious (price, tether distance from the PC), can anyone comment on
> the pros & cons of the two?  I am running all Macs, so anything pertinent to
> using these interfaces under OS X would be especially welcome.  I do have
> Win XP running under vmware, so if necessary I can use that, though I prefer
> to try and run everything under OS X.
>
> Some specific questions I have:
> - How well do the different drivers work?
> - Is one faster than the other?
> - What about compatability with various software?  Are the software
> interfaces really different, or similar enough that either could be used
> with minimal tweaking?
>
> Thanks, and have a great 4th of July everyone!
> Chad.
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>   
The GPIB-LAN device doesn't require drivers so it should work on any
modern OS (and hardware) that implements networking via UTP cable and
uses TCP/IP.
The GPIB-USB adapter needs a driver for the OS in use.

Thus the GPIB-LAN device should work with OS-X whereas the GPIB-USB
device will need a driver (currently there doesn't appear to be one so
you would need to roll your own).

The configuration tool for the GPIB-LAN device is a Windows program but
you should only need to use it to initially configure the device.
The critical configuration parameters are stored in non volatile memory.

Bruce


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Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN

[Hal Murray]

> Like many of you, over time I've acquired enough test equipment with
> the GPIB interface that I'm wanting to make use of it.  I have
> narrowed the choice down to one of the Prologix devices (GPIB-USB or
> GPIB-LAN), but I haven't found much information about the differences
> between the two.  Apart from the obvious (price, tether distance from
> the PC), can anyone comment on the pros & cons of the two

I have one of the older USB versions.  I'm happy with it.  It uses one of the 
popular USB to serial chips so it looks like a typical serial port and the 
driver should be well debugged.  I use it from Linux with no troubles.


-- 
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's.  I hate spam.




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Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB vs. GPIB-LAN

[Lux, James P]

On 7/4/09 7:43 PM, "Chad Simpson"  wrote:

> Hello all, this is my first post to the list...
> 
> Like many of you, over time I've acquired enough test equipment with the
> GPIB interface that I'm wanting to make use of it.  I have narrowed the
> choice down to one of the Prologix devices (GPIB-USB or GPIB-LAN), but I
> haven't found much information about the differences between the two.  Apart
> from the obvious (price, tether distance from the PC), can anyone comment on
> the pros & cons of the two?  I am running all Macs, so anything pertinent to
> using these interfaces under OS X would be especially welcome.  I do have
> Win XP running under vmware, so if necessary I can use that, though I prefer
> to try and run everything under OS X.
> 
> Some specific questions I have:
> - How well do the different drivers work?
> - Is one faster than the other?
> - What about compatability with various software?  Are the software
> interfaces really different, or similar enough that either could be used
> with minimal tweaking?
> 

Actually, this is quite timely.. I've been looking for a basic Ethernet/GPIB
box at work..  

Jim


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