Re: [time-nuts] looking for data on time code display

[Morris Odell]

> I had hoped the frequencies listed on the controls might trigger some
association in someone who's knowledgable about time-codes. 250 Hz 

> doesn't seem to be a legal IRIG time-code frequency, although 1 kHz is.

I'd try feeding it with various frequencies as others have suggested and see
what happens. It's unlikely to have been used with other time codes such as
SMPTE.

I have an earlier unit made by Datachron, now defunct, which looks
superficially similar but uses DTL logic. Mine is definitely an IRIG decoder
and the funny filter frequencies may have been meant for manually shuttling
tapes at non standard speeds. After a lot of messing around (a story in
itself)  I have resurrected mine and use it as a nixie clock, fed with IRIG
B generated by a modern micro from the output of a GPS receiver. There's
more logic in the $9 AVR chip than the whole IRIG decoder which would have
cost thousands when it was new!

And while I'm on the subject, anyone got any DTL JK flip flops to spare to
keep the old box going? I've had to replace quite a few chips which probably
died when the device was fed with higher than specified mains voltage in its
early life.  The +5V supply was unregulated :-(

Morris VK3DOC
Melbourne, Australia



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Re: [time-nuts] looking for data on time code display

[paul swed]

It was just on the thread a month ago.
nematime $15 donation.
I have used it and it worked well.

On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 5:25 PM, J. Forster  wrote:

> I think I've seen IRIG Time Code SW for the PC that uses a sound card, but
> I forget where.  The various IRIG formats are well dovumented.
>
> And yes, Time Code readers were used with high and low speed searches on
> IRIG tape recorders. You set Start and Stop points and the tape would
> Play, Stop, Reverse, Stop, Play as you demuxed/analyzed the data.
>
> Typically there were 5 or 12 tracks of analog data and two time code
> tracks. Sometimes digit was recorded in roughly the same way.
>
> -John
>
> 
>
>
>
> > Fascinating. I also have one of these with slight differences, but it
> > does have a Fort Meade tag. Bought it from a guy on the BoatAnchors
> > list in Atlanta in the dim past.
> >
> > The HTID number is H9823180065821, NSN 664500DISPLAY, User ID STWA104
> >
> > The rotary switch adds a 160 KHz position. The two switches are marked
> > CODE POLARITY and POWER ON. The rear panel has a 4 pin circular jack
> > labeled AUX and a 24 pin rectangular connector marked PARALLEL.
> >
> > A partly torn tag taped to the top says Made by TRAK, Model ?? 2234/U,
> > SN 517. A plastic envelope contained a DD Form 1348-1A release/receipt
> > document from the Defense Reutilization Marketing Office at Meade. It
> > released 5 of these units worth $1500 each, dated 1-29-98, ship from
> > H98231 (in HTID number above) to SX1213 (marketing office?).
> >
> > Somewhere I'd heard that these units were for locating times on tape
> > recordings of intercepts. The different filter frequencies are for
> > different tape speeds, from high speed search to fine positioning.
> > The code might be IRIG but it could just as easily be something the
> > NSA invented for the purpose.
> >
> > I bought it because I'd visited the NSA museum at Fort Meade and seen
> > the code breaking machines. I didn't find them intimidating at all.
> > The gift shop would sell me a jacket with NSA logos, but I didn't
> > know where I would wear it. There is a certain cachet to having a
> > box that was used by top secret agents to decode radio intercepts.
> >
> > Bill Hawkins
> >
> > P.S. I'd recommend doing some signal tracing from the Input connector.
> > We have no idea what signal levels were used, if it wasn't IRIG. I
> > never found time to do that.
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: ed breya
> > Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 2:12 PM
> >
> > I looked at your first post again and noticed there were apparently
> > lots of TTL circuitry, so it could be an IRIG code receiver, and you
> > should be able talk to it. If you don't have a source readily
> > available, you may be able to fool it into responding a little to
> > gibberish applied from a modulated signal generator, just to see if
> > it's functional.
> >
> > Ed
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
> >
>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] looking for data on time code display

[J. Forster]

Maybe something like a Datum or AstroData.

The reverse code switch is for reading tapes backwards. It looks like a
modified standard product. It does not appear to interface w/ a tape
search controller.

At a guess it's mid 1960s to mid 1970s, to go w/ something like an Ampex
FR1800 or similar tape machine.

Many IRIG recorders could go  240, 120, 60, 30, 15, 7.5, 3.75, 1.875, and
0.9375 inches per second.

FWIW,

-John





>
> On Dec 11, 2011, at 6:18 PM, Jim Palfreyman wrote:
>
>> Any chance of a photo?
>
> 
>
> It's not mine, but it looks the same except that the yellow sticker is on
> the side of mine rather than the front.
>
> Best regards,
> -Steve
>
> --
> Steve Byan 
> Littleton, MA 01460
>
>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] looking for data on time code display

[Steve Byan]

On Dec 11, 2011, at 6:18 PM, Jim Palfreyman wrote:

> Any chance of a photo?



It's not mine, but it looks the same except that the yellow sticker is on the 
side of mine rather than the front.

Best regards,
-Steve

-- 
Steve Byan 
Littleton, MA 01460




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Re: [time-nuts] looking for data on time code display

[Steve Byan]

On Dec 11, 2011, at 5:25 PM, J. Forster wrote:

> I think I've seen IRIG Time Code SW for the PC that uses a sound card, but
> I forget where.  



Best regards,
-Steve

-- 
Steve Byan 
Littleton, MA 01460




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Re: [time-nuts] looking for data on time code display

[Steve Byan]

On Dec 11, 2011, at 4:12 PM, Bill Hawkins wrote:

> Fascinating. I also have one of these with slight differences, but it
> does have a Fort Meade tag. Bought it from a guy on the BoatAnchors
> list in Atlanta in the dim past.
> 
> The HTID number is H9823180065821, NSN 664500DISPLAY, User ID STWA104
> 
> The rotary switch adds a 160 KHz position. The two switches are marked
> CODE POLARITY and POWER ON. The rear panel has a 4 pin circular jack
> labeled AUX and a 24 pin rectangular connector marked PARALLEL.

Yeah, mine has those connectors also. Fair also had some with LED displays.

> A partly torn tag taped to the top says Made by TRAK, Model ?? 2234/U,
> SN 517. A plastic envelope contained a DD Form 1348-1A release/receipt
> document from the Defense Reutilization Marketing Office at Meade. It
> released 5 of these units worth $1500 each, dated 1-29-98, ship from
> H98231 (in HTID number above) to SX1213 (marketing office?).
> 
> Somewhere I'd heard that these units were for locating times on tape
> recordings of intercepts. The different filter frequencies are for
> different tape speeds, from high speed search to fine positioning.
> The code might be IRIG but it could just as easily be something the
> NSA invented for the purpose.

Maybe part of Project Boresight? 


> I bought it because I'd visited the NSA museum at Fort Meade and seen
> the code breaking machines. I didn't find them intimidating at all.
> The gift shop would sell me a jacket with NSA logos, but I didn't
> know where I would wear it. There is a certain cachet to having a
> box that was used by top secret agents to decode radio intercepts.
> 
> Bill Hawkins
> 
> P.S. I'd recommend doing some signal tracing from the Input connector.
> We have no idea what signal levels were used, if it wasn't IRIG. I
> never found time to do that.

Yeah, that'll be on my to-do list. I had hoped the frequencies listed on the 
controls might trigger some association in someone who's knowledgable about 
time-codes. 250 Hz doesn't seem to be a legal IRIG time-code frequency, 
although 1 kHz is.

Best regards,
Steve

-- 
Steve Byan 
Littleton, MA 01460




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Re: [time-nuts] looking for data on time code display

[gary]

Try their reading room first.

http://www.nsa.gov/public_info/foia/reading_room/index.shtml


If there is no information in the reading room, do a FOIA. This 
information is always run past lawyers, not engineers. Don't be 
surprised if you get a call from whatever NSA calls their legal 
department. I've had calls from JAG regarding FOIAs.


The lawyer more often than not is your friend in FOIA requests. For one 
thing, if the request is too broad, they can help you narrow down the 
request. Usually the first 100 pages is free. I have declassified 
documents that are in excess of 500 pages.


For this device, you would probably want to FOIA an operators manual. 
Too general of a request might get you every memo where the device is 
mentioned.



On 12/11/2011 3:18 PM, Jim Palfreyman wrote:

Any chance of a photo?

On 12 December 2011 04:26, Bob Camp  wrote:


Hi

Maybe you could call them up and ask for information on the system they
went with….:)…

Sounds like a great way to wind up on a "no fly" list.

Bob


On Dec 11, 2011, at 11:40 AM, Jean-Louis Noel wrote:


Hi,

From: "Steve Byan"


NSN 6625003684180


==
NSN: 6625-00-368-4180
INDICATOR, DIGITAL D
Part No: 0N194800
Price Range: n/a
Delivery Range: n/a
Mfr/OEM/Agencies: JOINT ELECTRONICS TYPE DESIGNATION SYSTEM, NATIONAL

SECURITY AGENCY

==

Bye,
Jean-Louis

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Re: [time-nuts] looking for data on time code display

[Jim Palfreyman]

Any chance of a photo?

On 12 December 2011 04:26, Bob Camp  wrote:

> Hi
>
> Maybe you could call them up and ask for information on the system they
> went with….:)…
>
> Sounds like a great way to wind up on a "no fly" list.
>
> Bob
>
>
> On Dec 11, 2011, at 11:40 AM, Jean-Louis Noel wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > From: "Steve Byan" 
> >
> >> NSN 6625003684180
> >
> > ==
> > NSN: 6625-00-368-4180
> > INDICATOR, DIGITAL D
> > Part No: 0N194800
> > Price Range: n/a
> > Delivery Range: n/a
> > Mfr/OEM/Agencies: JOINT ELECTRONICS TYPE DESIGNATION SYSTEM, NATIONAL
> SECURITY AGENCY
> > ==
> >
> > Bye,
> > Jean-Louis
> >
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> > and follow the instructions there.
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] looking for data on time code display

[J. Forster]

I think I've seen IRIG Time Code SW for the PC that uses a sound card, but
I forget where.  The various IRIG formats are well dovumented.

And yes, Time Code readers were used with high and low speed searches on
IRIG tape recorders. You set Start and Stop points and the tape would
Play, Stop, Reverse, Stop, Play as you demuxed/analyzed the data.

Typically there were 5 or 12 tracks of analog data and two time code
tracks. Sometimes digit was recorded in roughly the same way.

-John





> Fascinating. I also have one of these with slight differences, but it
> does have a Fort Meade tag. Bought it from a guy on the BoatAnchors
> list in Atlanta in the dim past.
>
> The HTID number is H9823180065821, NSN 664500DISPLAY, User ID STWA104
>
> The rotary switch adds a 160 KHz position. The two switches are marked
> CODE POLARITY and POWER ON. The rear panel has a 4 pin circular jack
> labeled AUX and a 24 pin rectangular connector marked PARALLEL.
>
> A partly torn tag taped to the top says Made by TRAK, Model ?? 2234/U,
> SN 517. A plastic envelope contained a DD Form 1348-1A release/receipt
> document from the Defense Reutilization Marketing Office at Meade. It
> released 5 of these units worth $1500 each, dated 1-29-98, ship from
> H98231 (in HTID number above) to SX1213 (marketing office?).
>
> Somewhere I'd heard that these units were for locating times on tape
> recordings of intercepts. The different filter frequencies are for
> different tape speeds, from high speed search to fine positioning.
> The code might be IRIG but it could just as easily be something the
> NSA invented for the purpose.
>
> I bought it because I'd visited the NSA museum at Fort Meade and seen
> the code breaking machines. I didn't find them intimidating at all.
> The gift shop would sell me a jacket with NSA logos, but I didn't
> know where I would wear it. There is a certain cachet to having a
> box that was used by top secret agents to decode radio intercepts.
>
> Bill Hawkins
>
> P.S. I'd recommend doing some signal tracing from the Input connector.
> We have no idea what signal levels were used, if it wasn't IRIG. I
> never found time to do that.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: ed breya
> Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 2:12 PM
>
> I looked at your first post again and noticed there were apparently
> lots of TTL circuitry, so it could be an IRIG code receiver, and you
> should be able talk to it. If you don't have a source readily
> available, you may be able to fool it into responding a little to
> gibberish applied from a modulated signal generator, just to see if
> it's functional.
>
> Ed
>
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
>



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Re: [time-nuts] looking for data on time code display

[lists]

I did the NSA museum tour too. Well worth the trip. 

I got a CIA polo shirt at the employee gift shop. Yeah, where do you wear it? I 
put it on for one of those 9/11 Conspiracy events. 

"Do you work for the CIA?"
"No, I just wear their shirts."

-Original Message-
From: "Bill Hawkins" 
Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 15:12:51 
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
        
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] looking for data on time code display

Fascinating. I also have one of these with slight differences, but it
does have a Fort Meade tag. Bought it from a guy on the BoatAnchors
list in Atlanta in the dim past.

The HTID number is H9823180065821, NSN 664500DISPLAY, User ID STWA104

The rotary switch adds a 160 KHz position. The two switches are marked
CODE POLARITY and POWER ON. The rear panel has a 4 pin circular jack
labeled AUX and a 24 pin rectangular connector marked PARALLEL.

A partly torn tag taped to the top says Made by TRAK, Model ?? 2234/U,
SN 517. A plastic envelope contained a DD Form 1348-1A release/receipt
document from the Defense Reutilization Marketing Office at Meade. It
released 5 of these units worth $1500 each, dated 1-29-98, ship from
H98231 (in HTID number above) to SX1213 (marketing office?).

Somewhere I'd heard that these units were for locating times on tape
recordings of intercepts. The different filter frequencies are for
different tape speeds, from high speed search to fine positioning.
The code might be IRIG but it could just as easily be something the
NSA invented for the purpose.

I bought it because I'd visited the NSA museum at Fort Meade and seen
the code breaking machines. I didn't find them intimidating at all.
The gift shop would sell me a jacket with NSA logos, but I didn't
know where I would wear it. There is a certain cachet to having a
box that was used by top secret agents to decode radio intercepts.

Bill Hawkins

P.S. I'd recommend doing some signal tracing from the Input connector.
We have no idea what signal levels were used, if it wasn't IRIG. I
never found time to do that.


-Original Message-
From: ed breya
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 2:12 PM

I looked at your first post again and noticed there were apparently 
lots of TTL circuitry, so it could be an IRIG code receiver, and you 
should be able talk to it. If you don't have a source readily 
available, you may be able to fool it into responding a little to 
gibberish applied from a modulated signal generator, just to see if 
it's functional.

Ed


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Re: [time-nuts] looking for data on time code display

[Bill Hawkins]

Fascinating. I also have one of these with slight differences, but it
does have a Fort Meade tag. Bought it from a guy on the BoatAnchors
list in Atlanta in the dim past.

The HTID number is H9823180065821, NSN 664500DISPLAY, User ID STWA104

The rotary switch adds a 160 KHz position. The two switches are marked
CODE POLARITY and POWER ON. The rear panel has a 4 pin circular jack
labeled AUX and a 24 pin rectangular connector marked PARALLEL.

A partly torn tag taped to the top says Made by TRAK, Model ?? 2234/U,
SN 517. A plastic envelope contained a DD Form 1348-1A release/receipt
document from the Defense Reutilization Marketing Office at Meade. It
released 5 of these units worth $1500 each, dated 1-29-98, ship from
H98231 (in HTID number above) to SX1213 (marketing office?).

Somewhere I'd heard that these units were for locating times on tape
recordings of intercepts. The different filter frequencies are for
different tape speeds, from high speed search to fine positioning.
The code might be IRIG but it could just as easily be something the
NSA invented for the purpose.

I bought it because I'd visited the NSA museum at Fort Meade and seen
the code breaking machines. I didn't find them intimidating at all.
The gift shop would sell me a jacket with NSA logos, but I didn't
know where I would wear it. There is a certain cachet to having a
box that was used by top secret agents to decode radio intercepts.

Bill Hawkins

P.S. I'd recommend doing some signal tracing from the Input connector.
We have no idea what signal levels were used, if it wasn't IRIG. I
never found time to do that.


-Original Message-
From: ed breya
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 2:12 PM

I looked at your first post again and noticed there were apparently 
lots of TTL circuitry, so it could be an IRIG code receiver, and you 
should be able talk to it. If you don't have a source readily 
available, you may be able to fool it into responding a little to 
gibberish applied from a modulated signal generator, just to see if 
it's functional.

Ed


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Re: [time-nuts] looking for data on time code display

[Bob Camp]

Hi

Maybe you could call them up and ask for information on the system they went 
with….:)…

Sounds like a great way to wind up on a "no fly" list.

Bob


On Dec 11, 2011, at 11:40 AM, Jean-Louis Noel wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> From: "Steve Byan" 
> 
>> NSN 6625003684180
> 
> ==
> NSN: 6625-00-368-4180
> INDICATOR, DIGITAL D
> Part No: 0N194800
> Price Range: n/a
> Delivery Range: n/a
> Mfr/OEM/Agencies: JOINT ELECTRONICS TYPE DESIGNATION SYSTEM, NATIONAL 
> SECURITY AGENCY
> ==
> 
> Bye,
> Jean-Louis
> 
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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Re: [time-nuts] looking for data on time code display

[Jean-Louis Noel]

Hi,

From: "Steve Byan" 


NSN 6625003684180


==
NSN: 6625-00-368-4180
INDICATOR, DIGITAL D
Part No: 0N194800
Price Range: n/a
Delivery Range: n/a
Mfr/OEM/Agencies: JOINT ELECTRONICS TYPE DESIGNATION SYSTEM, NATIONAL SECURITY 
AGENCY
==

Bye,
Jean-Louis

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