Re: [time-nuts] Any time-nut able to copy 82S191 PROM?

[Didier Juges]

Well, I have an old EP-1140 EPROM programmer that may be able to but I do
not have the manual or the software for it.
Software was running under MS-DOS, maybe an early Windows version like 3.0
or 3.1 so it may well be old enough to support those chips.
I do have a modern TL866 II Plus but it does not do Bipolar PROMS (too much
power needed I suppose, and no market)

If you find the software, you can have the burner for the price of shipping.

Didier KO4BB



On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 6:20 PM Skip Withrow  wrote:

> Hello Time-Nuts,
> I have an 82S191 bipolar PROM that I need copied (to do a software
> upgrade).  Just wondering if there is a time-nut in the U.S. that has
> the capability still?  I can send the master device and blank PROM,
> and will provide the label to send them back to me.
>
> Thanks in advance.
> Skip Withrow
>
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[time-nuts] Any time-nut able to copy 82S191 PROM?

[Skip Withrow]

Hello Time-Nuts,
I have an 82S191 bipolar PROM that I need copied (to do a software
upgrade).  Just wondering if there is a time-nut in the U.S. that has
the capability still?  I can send the master device and blank PROM,
and will provide the label to send them back to me.

Thanks in advance.
Skip Withrow

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Re: [time-nuts] Are there SC-crystals out there in the wild that are not Overtone?

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

A, but did you then whip up a batch of ammonium bifluoride  to clean them 
up after 
playing with the grinding compound? :) They figured that part out part way 
through WWII.
The lack proper post grind etch just about had all the radios out there out of 
service.

Bob

> On Feb 27, 2020, at 5:12 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist  
> wrote:
> 
> Been there; done that!
> 
> Rick N6RK
> 
> On 2/27/2020 12:15 PM, David Van Horn via time-nuts wrote:
>> I remember opening up those military crystals and sanding them down with 
>> Ajax cleaner to raise the frequency or rubbing a little solder on the plate 
>> to lower it for CW transmitters.
>> High school days. 😊
>> --
>> David VanHorn
>> Lead Hardware Engineer
>> Backcountry Access, Inc.
>> 2820 Wilderness Pl, Unit H
>> Boulder, CO  80301 USA
>> phone: 303-417-1345  x110
>> email: david.vanh...@backcountryaccess.com
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Re: [time-nuts] Are there SC-crystals out there in the wild that are not Overtone?

[Richard (Rick) Karlquist]

Been there; done that!

Rick N6RK

On 2/27/2020 12:15 PM, David Van Horn via time-nuts wrote:

I remember opening up those military crystals and sanding them down with Ajax 
cleaner to raise the frequency or rubbing a little solder on the plate to lower 
it for CW transmitters.

High school days. 😊

--
David VanHorn
Lead Hardware Engineer

Backcountry Access, Inc.
2820 Wilderness Pl, Unit H
Boulder, CO  80301 USA
phone: 303-417-1345  x110
email: david.vanh...@backcountryaccess.com

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Re: [time-nuts] New Subscriber, DIY GPSDO project (yes, another one)

[ew via time-nuts]

Please contact me direct off list
In a message dated 2/27/2020 4:46:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
time-n...@welwarsky.de writes:

On Donnerstag, 27. Februar 2020 19:16:22 CET ew via time-nuts wrote:
> Matthias where are you located. I am in the US but I have some partners in
> crime that may be able to help you with AV testing    ewkeh...@aol.com
> 
> Bert Kehren

I'm in Germany.

BR,
Matthias

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Re: [time-nuts] New Subscriber, DIY GPSDO project (yes, another one)

[Matthias Welwarsky]

On Donnerstag, 27. Februar 2020 19:16:22 CET ew via time-nuts wrote:
> Matthias where are you located. I am in the US but I have some partners in
> crime that may be able to help you with AV testingewkeh...@aol.com
> 
> Bert Kehren

I'm in Germany.

BR,
Matthias

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Re: [time-nuts] Are there SC-crystals out there in the wild that are not Overtone?

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

The crystal industry in the US went from a couple of outfits (mostly in PA)  
making < 
a hundred a month in the 1930’s,  to a massive bunch of outfits during WWII. 
Most 
were turning out a couple hundred an hour. 

Much of that collapsed when the war ended and the demand went away. A few 
outfits
combined with others. The vast majority of companies simply vanished. 

Bob

> On Feb 27, 2020, at 2:07 PM, jimlux  wrote:
> 
> On 2/27/20 8:45 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
>> OTOH, you could build a simple Colpitts
>> oscillator and see where it oscillates.
>> That's what they did back in the dark
>> ages.
>> Any time nut should be up for that.
>> Rick N6RK
> 
> But does a deForest Audion (ref Colpitts patent 1624537 1918) have enough 
> gain at 5 or 10 MHz?
> 
> I guess so, by 1930 deForest was selling oscillators and receivers at 15,000 
> kilocycles. Although I didn't see any indication of crystal oscillators - 
> they're all LC tuned. (One mention of crystal control is in an article about 
> a SW crystal controlled Transmitter by Lester Spangenberg)
> 
> https://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Radio-News/30s/Radio-News-1930-05-R.pdf
> 
> (Timenuts - your experience and training probably qualifies you for a job in 
> Radio-Television - Talking Pictures, see the ads!)
> 
> I seem to recall that crystals for frequency control (on a commercial basis) 
> were sort of a post WW2 thing (partly because of developments in piezo 
> hydrophones for sonar)
> 
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Re: [time-nuts] Are there SC-crystals out there in the wild that are not Overtone?

[David Van Horn via time-nuts]

I remember opening up those military crystals and sanding them down with Ajax 
cleaner to raise the frequency or rubbing a little solder on the plate to lower 
it for CW transmitters.

High school days. 😊

--
David VanHorn
Lead Hardware Engineer

Backcountry Access, Inc.
2820 Wilderness Pl, Unit H
Boulder, CO  80301 USA
phone: 303-417-1345  x110
email: david.vanh...@backcountryaccess.com 

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Re: [time-nuts] Are there SC-crystals out there in the wild that are not Overtone?

[Richard (Rick) Karlquist]

I seem to recall that crystals for frequency control (on a commercial 
basis) were sort of a post WW2 thing (partly because of developments in 
piezo hydrophones for sonar)




Crystals for radios were well established pre-WWII.  There was an
FCS paper ~30 years ago about the WWII quartz shortage and the
research to find alternatives to quartz (which they didn't know
how to grow synthetically yet).  Spoiler alert:  there is nothing
else like quartz!.

Novice hams routinely used war surplus crystals (FT-243?) after the war.
I had some at 3.7 and 7.15 MHz fundamental and they oscillated
fine with receiving tubes, circa 1965.

There was some standard military crystal test set from the war that
was always referenced in crystal specs in those days.  The test
set was in essence a "golden" oscillator.

Rick N6RK

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Re: [time-nuts] Are there SC-crystals out there in the wild that are not Overtone?

[jimlux]

On 2/27/20 8:45 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:

OTOH, you could build a simple Colpitts
oscillator and see where it oscillates.
That's what they did back in the dark
ages.

Any time nut should be up for that.

Rick N6RK



But does a deForest Audion (ref Colpitts patent 1624537 1918) have 
enough gain at 5 or 10 MHz?


I guess so, by 1930 deForest was selling oscillators and receivers at 
15,000 kilocycles. Although I didn't see any indication of crystal 
oscillators - they're all LC tuned. (One mention of crystal control is 
in an article about a SW crystal controlled Transmitter by Lester 
Spangenberg)


https://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Radio-News/30s/Radio-News-1930-05-R.pdf

(Timenuts - your experience and training probably qualifies you for a 
job in Radio-Television - Talking Pictures, see the ads!)


I seem to recall that crystals for frequency control (on a commercial 
basis) were sort of a post WW2 thing (partly because of developments in 
piezo hydrophones for sonar)


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Re: [time-nuts] New Subscriber, DIY GPSDO project (yes, another one)

[ew via time-nuts]

Matthias where are you located. I am in the US but I have some partners in 
crime that may be able to help you with AV testing    ewkeh...@aol.com

Bert Kehren
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Re: [time-nuts] Are there SC-crystals out there in the wild that are not Overtone?

[Gerhard Hoffmann]

Am 27.02.20 um 17:45 schrieb Richard (Rick) Karlquist:

OTOH, you could build a simple Colpitts
oscillator and see where it oscillates.
That's what they did back in the dark
ages.

Any time nut should be up for that.


5.000 MHz. That was easy. It used to be in something Colpitts-like

for 30 years, but did not age to its advantage like good Scotch.

I was just puzzled because I could not find the fundamental.

When the subharmonic is so far off as Bernd has said, then I could

well have searched a day with the network analyzer at 1 Hz receiver

bandwidth without finding it. I'll postpone that to the weekend.


Someone has reverse-engineered the whole oscillator:

< https://www.bartelsos.de/dk7jb.php/ocxo-morion-mv89a?download=118 >

Jörn seems to read the timenut list, HI!


cheers, Gerhard

(now I'll have to shovel some snow, first time for this winter!)







Rick N6RK

On 2/27/2020 5:35 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote:

Hi

Ok, so just to run the math:

5 MHz / 2.9 = 1.724 MHz

If the Q at the fundamental is 500K (a wild guess) then 1.724 MHz / 
500,000 = 3.4 Hz


In a world where a synthesized sweeper *might* be stepping in 10Hz 
steps, that’s an

easy one to miss.

Bob



On Feb 26, 2020, at 11:40 PM, Bernd Neubig  wrote:

Hi Gerhard,
I am rather sure that it is a 5 MHz 3rd overtone crystal.
the resistance should be in the 80 to 110 Ohm range and Q about 1.5 
million. You can see the resonance without ringing in a span of 100 
Hz or smaller with a sweep time of 10 sec minimum.

See attached the response of a 5 MHz SC3 crystal in HC-40/U package.
Indeed the 5.45 MHz is the B-mode which has a temperature 
coefficient of -30 ppm/K
Because the crystal blank  has  a plano-convex shape. The overtones 
are quite far away from 3 times or 5 times the fundamental mode. 3rd 
overtone is about (rough guess) 2.9 time of fundamental mode.
To find them you must really carefully sweep around a few 10 to 100 
kHz span with slow sweep time a narrow bandwidth


Regards
Bernd
DK1AG

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com] Im Auftrag 
von Gerhard Hoffmann via time-nuts

Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. Februar 2020 01:42

To get a first impression, I soldered the crystal to an SMA plug and 
put it on an
R&S ZVB-8 network analyzer and measured S11. I could see the 5 MHz 
resonance
as a 15 dB dip.  There was also a resonance at 5.45 and a smaller 
one another 90 KHz

higher. the +10% suggest that it is an SC cut.
But I could not see anything at 1 or 1. MHz, so it should be a 
fundamental crystal?

Is that common?
I made most measurements at room temperature. I can turn the hot air 
solder

station down to 91°C which is not far away from the crystal's 87.7°C
inflection point, and I could see some variation on the 5.45 MHz 
resonance vs. temp.
I must build a fixture for the hot air because the sweep time at 1 
Hz bandwidth

is close to eternal.
Is the un-harmonicity (???) between fundamental and overtones 
stronger with SC-cuts
than normal AT? I also could not see anything at 15 MHz. Next I'll 
make a board
for the PI fixture as described by Bernd Neubig in his crystal 
cookbook.
BTW I could see some more dips with >= 10 Hz resolution. I hope that 
does not mean

that the ZVB needs service.




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Re: [time-nuts] PCB layout question for GPSDO

[Matthias Welwarsky]

On Donnerstag, 27. Februar 2020 16:17:56 CET Tobias Pluess wrote:

> I will see how well it works. At least I got my PCBs this week, and my
> Mouser order for some components is on the way. I will start with the
> software for the STM32 soon, maybe I will then bother the mailing list
> again a bit more ;-)
> 
> And I am also working on a bit of a writeup of the whole design.

If you want to exchange notes on the software, I'm using a quite similar 
design (same ublox module, same TDC, similar MCU). My stuff will probably be 
on github in a few weeks.

BR,
Matthias



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Re: [time-nuts] Are there SC-crystals out there in the wild that are not Overtone?

[Brian Lloyd]

On 2/27/20 10:45, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
> OTOH, you could build a simple Colpitts
> oscillator and see where it oscillates.
> That's what they did back in the dark
> ages.
>
> Any time nut should be up for that.
I was going to suggest pumping it with white noise and then doing a long
FFT to see which bin has any energy in it to get into the ballpark but
building an oscillator seems to be far and away the simplest solution.
>
> Rick N6RK
>
> On 2/27/2020 5:35 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> Ok, so just to run the math:
>>
>> 5 MHz / 2.9 = 1.724 MHz
>>
>> If the Q at the fundamental is 500K (a wild guess) then 1.724 MHz /
>> 500,000 = 3.4 Hz
>>
>> In a world where a synthesized sweeper *might* be stepping in 10Hz
>> steps, that’s an
>> easy one to miss.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>>> On Feb 26, 2020, at 11:40 PM, Bernd Neubig  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Gerhard,
>>> I am rather sure that it is a 5 MHz 3rd overtone crystal.
>>> the resistance should be in the 80 to 110 Ohm range and Q about 1.5
>>> million. You can see the resonance without ringing in a span of 100
>>> Hz or smaller with a sweep time of 10 sec minimum.
>>> See attached the response of a 5 MHz SC3 crystal in HC-40/U package.
>>> Indeed the 5.45 MHz is the B-mode which has a temperature
>>> coefficient of -30 ppm/K
>>> Because the crystal blank  has  a plano-convex shape. The overtones
>>> are quite far away from 3 times or 5 times the fundamental mode. 3rd
>>> overtone is about (rough guess) 2.9 time of fundamental mode.
>>> To find them you must really carefully sweep around a few 10 to 100
>>> kHz span with slow sweep time a narrow bandwidth
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Bernd
>>> DK1AG
>>>
>>> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
>>> Von: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com] Im Auftrag
>>> von Gerhard Hoffmann via time-nuts
>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. Februar 2020 01:42
>>>
>>> To get a first impression, I soldered the crystal to an SMA plug and
>>> put it on an
>>> R&S ZVB-8 network analyzer and measured S11. I could see the 5 MHz
>>> resonance
>>> as a 15 dB dip.  There was also a resonance at 5.45 and a smaller
>>> one another 90 KHz
>>> higher. the +10% suggest that it is an SC cut.
>>> But I could not see anything at 1 or 1. MHz, so it should be a
>>> fundamental crystal?
>>> Is that common?
>>> I made most measurements at room temperature. I can turn the hot air
>>> solder
>>> station down to 91°C which is not far away from the crystal's 87.7°C
>>> inflection point, and I could see some variation on the 5.45 MHz
>>> resonance vs. temp.
>>> I must build a fixture for the hot air because the sweep time at 1
>>> Hz bandwidth
>>> is close to eternal.
>>> Is the un-harmonicity (???) between fundamental and overtones
>>> stronger with SC-cuts
>>> than normal AT? I also could not see anything at 15 MHz. Next I'll
>>> make a board
>>> for the PI fixture as described by Bernd Neubig in his crystal
>>> cookbook.
>>> BTW I could see some more dips with >= 10 Hz resolution. I hope that
>>> does not mean
>>> that the ZVB needs service.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe,
>>> go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>>> and follow the instructions there.
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>>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>>
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-- 


 

Brian Lloyd
706 Flightline
Spring Branch, TX 78070
br...@lloyd.aero 
+1.210.802.8359


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Re: [time-nuts] Are there SC-crystals out there in the wild that are not Overtone?

[Richard (Rick) Karlquist]

OTOH, you could build a simple Colpitts
oscillator and see where it oscillates.
That's what they did back in the dark
ages.

Any time nut should be up for that.

Rick N6RK

On 2/27/2020 5:35 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote:

Hi

Ok, so just to run the math:

5 MHz / 2.9 = 1.724 MHz

If the Q at the fundamental is 500K (a wild guess) then 1.724 MHz / 500,000 = 
3.4 Hz

In a world where a synthesized sweeper *might* be stepping in 10Hz steps, 
that’s an
easy one to miss.

Bob



On Feb 26, 2020, at 11:40 PM, Bernd Neubig  wrote:

Hi Gerhard,
I am rather sure that it is a 5 MHz 3rd overtone crystal.
the resistance should be in the 80 to 110 Ohm range and Q about 1.5 million. 
You can see the resonance without ringing in a span of 100 Hz or smaller with a 
sweep time of 10 sec minimum.
See attached the response of a 5 MHz SC3 crystal in HC-40/U package.
Indeed the 5.45 MHz is the B-mode which has a temperature coefficient of -30 
ppm/K
Because the crystal blank  has  a plano-convex shape. The overtones are quite 
far away from 3 times or 5 times the fundamental mode. 3rd overtone is about 
(rough guess) 2.9 time of fundamental mode.
To find them you must really carefully sweep around a few 10 to 100 kHz span 
with slow sweep time a narrow bandwidth

Regards
Bernd
DK1AG

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com] Im Auftrag von Gerhard 
Hoffmann via time-nuts
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. Februar 2020 01:42

To get a first impression, I soldered the crystal to an SMA plug and put it on 
an
R&S ZVB-8 network analyzer and measured S11. I could see the 5 MHz resonance
as a 15 dB dip.  There was also a resonance at 5.45 and a smaller one another 
90 KHz
higher. the +10% suggest that it is an SC cut.
But I could not see anything at 1 or 1. MHz, so it should be a fundamental 
crystal?
Is that common?
I made most measurements at room temperature. I can turn the hot air solder
station down to 91°C which is not far away from the crystal's 87.7°C
inflection point, and I could see some variation on the 5.45 MHz resonance vs. 
temp.
I must build a fixture for the hot air because the sweep time at 1 Hz bandwidth
is close to eternal.
Is the un-harmonicity (???) between fundamental and overtones stronger with 
SC-cuts
than normal AT? I also could not see anything at 15 MHz. Next I'll make a board
for the PI fixture as described by Bernd Neubig in his crystal cookbook.
BTW I could see some more dips with >= 10 Hz resolution. I hope that does not 
mean
that the ZVB needs service.




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Re: [time-nuts] Are there SC-crystals out there in the wild that are not Overtone?

[Dana Whitlow]

If you start off viewing the crystal in series (S21) I believe that you'll
be able to see
some response far enough away from the resonance to make it easier to find.

Dana


On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 9:39 AM Magnus Danielson  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Even if my VNA steps in 1 Hz if I ask it kindly, it can be a bit
> teadious work to find it.
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus
>
> On 2020-02-27 14:35, Bob kb8tq wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > Ok, so just to run the math:
> >
> > 5 MHz / 2.9 = 1.724 MHz
> >
> > If the Q at the fundamental is 500K (a wild guess) then 1.724 MHz /
> 500,000 = 3.4 Hz
> >
> > In a world where a synthesized sweeper *might* be stepping in 10Hz
> steps, that’s an
> > easy one to miss.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >> On Feb 26, 2020, at 11:40 PM, Bernd Neubig  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Gerhard,
> >> I am rather sure that it is a 5 MHz 3rd overtone crystal.
> >> the resistance should be in the 80 to 110 Ohm range and Q about 1.5
> million. You can see the resonance without ringing in a span of 100 Hz or
> smaller with a sweep time of 10 sec minimum.
> >> See attached the response of a 5 MHz SC3 crystal in HC-40/U package.
> >> Indeed the 5.45 MHz is the B-mode which has a temperature coefficient
> of -30 ppm/K
> >> Because the crystal blank  has  a plano-convex shape. The overtones are
> quite far away from 3 times or 5 times the fundamental mode. 3rd overtone
> is about (rough guess) 2.9 time of fundamental mode.
> >> To find them you must really carefully sweep around a few 10 to 100 kHz
> span with slow sweep time a narrow bandwidth
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> Bernd
> >> DK1AG
> >>
> >> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> >> Von: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com] Im Auftrag
> von Gerhard Hoffmann via time-nuts
> >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. Februar 2020 01:42
> >>
> >> To get a first impression, I soldered the crystal to an SMA plug and
> put it on an
> >> R&S ZVB-8 network analyzer and measured S11. I could see the 5 MHz
> resonance
> >> as a 15 dB dip.  There was also a resonance at 5.45 and a smaller one
> another 90 KHz
> >> higher. the +10% suggest that it is an SC cut.
> >> But I could not see anything at 1 or 1. MHz, so it should be a
> fundamental crystal?
> >> Is that common?
> >> I made most measurements at room temperature. I can turn the hot air
> solder
> >> station down to 91°C which is not far away from the crystal's 87.7°C
> >> inflection point, and I could see some variation on the 5.45 MHz
> resonance vs. temp.
> >> I must build a fixture for the hot air because the sweep time at 1 Hz
> bandwidth
> >> is close to eternal.
> >> Is the un-harmonicity (???) between fundamental and overtones stronger
> with SC-cuts
> >> than normal AT? I also could not see anything at 15 MHz. Next I'll make
> a board
> >> for the PI fixture as described by Bernd Neubig in his crystal cookbook.
> >> BTW I could see some more dips with >= 10 Hz resolution. I hope that
> does not mean
> >> that the ZVB needs service.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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> to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> >> and follow the instructions there.
> >> <5MC5735H.jpg>___
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> >> and follow the instructions there.
> >
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Re: [time-nuts] Are there SC-crystals out there in the wild that are not Overtone?

[Magnus Danielson]

Hi,

Even if my VNA steps in 1 Hz if I ask it kindly, it can be a bit
teadious work to find it.

Cheers,
Magnus

On 2020-02-27 14:35, Bob kb8tq wrote:
> Hi
>
> Ok, so just to run the math:
>
> 5 MHz / 2.9 = 1.724 MHz
>
> If the Q at the fundamental is 500K (a wild guess) then 1.724 MHz / 500,000 = 
> 3.4 Hz
>
> In a world where a synthesized sweeper *might* be stepping in 10Hz steps, 
> that’s an 
> easy one to miss.
>
> Bob
>
>
>> On Feb 26, 2020, at 11:40 PM, Bernd Neubig  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Gerhard,
>> I am rather sure that it is a 5 MHz 3rd overtone crystal.
>> the resistance should be in the 80 to 110 Ohm range and Q about 1.5 million. 
>> You can see the resonance without ringing in a span of 100 Hz or smaller 
>> with a sweep time of 10 sec minimum. 
>> See attached the response of a 5 MHz SC3 crystal in HC-40/U package.
>> Indeed the 5.45 MHz is the B-mode which has a temperature coefficient of -30 
>> ppm/K
>> Because the crystal blank  has  a plano-convex shape. The overtones are 
>> quite far away from 3 times or 5 times the fundamental mode. 3rd overtone is 
>> about (rough guess) 2.9 time of fundamental mode.
>> To find them you must really carefully sweep around a few 10 to 100 kHz span 
>> with slow sweep time a narrow bandwidth
>>
>> Regards
>> Bernd
>> DK1AG
>>
>> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
>> Von: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com] Im Auftrag von 
>> Gerhard Hoffmann via time-nuts
>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. Februar 2020 01:42
>>
>> To get a first impression, I soldered the crystal to an SMA plug and put it 
>> on an
>> R&S ZVB-8 network analyzer and measured S11. I could see the 5 MHz resonance
>> as a 15 dB dip.  There was also a resonance at 5.45 and a smaller one 
>> another 90 KHz
>> higher. the +10% suggest that it is an SC cut.
>> But I could not see anything at 1 or 1. MHz, so it should be a 
>> fundamental crystal?
>> Is that common?
>> I made most measurements at room temperature. I can turn the hot air solder
>> station down to 91°C which is not far away from the crystal's 87.7°C
>> inflection point, and I could see some variation on the 5.45 MHz resonance 
>> vs. temp.
>> I must build a fixture for the hot air because the sweep time at 1 Hz 
>> bandwidth
>> is close to eternal.
>> Is the un-harmonicity (???) between fundamental and overtones stronger with 
>> SC-cuts
>> than normal AT? I also could not see anything at 15 MHz. Next I'll make a 
>> board
>> for the PI fixture as described by Bernd Neubig in his crystal cookbook.
>> BTW I could see some more dips with >= 10 Hz resolution. I hope that does 
>> not mean
>> that the ZVB needs service.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to 
>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>> and follow the instructions there.
>> <5MC5735H.jpg>___
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>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>> and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] PCB layout question for GPSDO

[Tobias Pluess]

Hi Matthias,
jup, I agree but this "problem" will be easily fixed using the internal
pullup resistors of the STM32.

Best
Tobias
HB9FSX


On Thu, Feb 27, 2020 at 2:43 PM Matthias Welwarsky 
wrote:

> On Mittwoch, 19. Februar 2020 14:50:57 CET  wrote:
> > Hoi Tobias,
> >
> > Sorry for the late answer. Took me some time to look at your
> > schematics.
> >
>
> And I just had a quick look, too: I think you're missing a pull-up
> resistor
> for the TDC7200 INTB signal. Not a huge problem, the built-in pull-up of
> the
> STM32 can handle it, but it'd be better to have one.
>
> BR,
> Matthias
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] PCB layout question for GPSDO

[Matthias Welwarsky]

On Mittwoch, 19. Februar 2020 14:50:57 CET  wrote:
> Hoi Tobias,
> 
> Sorry for the late answer. Took me some time to look at your
> schematics.
> 

And I just had a quick look, too: I think you're missing a pull-up resistor 
for the TDC7200 INTB signal. Not a huge problem, the built-in pull-up of the 
STM32 can handle it, but it'd be better to have one.

BR,
Matthias





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Re: [time-nuts] Are there SC-crystals out there in the wild that are not Overtone?

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

Ok, so just to run the math:

5 MHz / 2.9 = 1.724 MHz

If the Q at the fundamental is 500K (a wild guess) then 1.724 MHz / 500,000 = 
3.4 Hz

In a world where a synthesized sweeper *might* be stepping in 10Hz steps, 
that’s an 
easy one to miss.

Bob


> On Feb 26, 2020, at 11:40 PM, Bernd Neubig  wrote:
> 
> Hi Gerhard,
> I am rather sure that it is a 5 MHz 3rd overtone crystal.
> the resistance should be in the 80 to 110 Ohm range and Q about 1.5 million. 
> You can see the resonance without ringing in a span of 100 Hz or smaller with 
> a sweep time of 10 sec minimum. 
> See attached the response of a 5 MHz SC3 crystal in HC-40/U package.
> Indeed the 5.45 MHz is the B-mode which has a temperature coefficient of -30 
> ppm/K
> Because the crystal blank  has  a plano-convex shape. The overtones are quite 
> far away from 3 times or 5 times the fundamental mode. 3rd overtone is about 
> (rough guess) 2.9 time of fundamental mode.
> To find them you must really carefully sweep around a few 10 to 100 kHz span 
> with slow sweep time a narrow bandwidth
> 
> Regards
> Bernd
> DK1AG
> 
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com] Im Auftrag von 
> Gerhard Hoffmann via time-nuts
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. Februar 2020 01:42
> 
> To get a first impression, I soldered the crystal to an SMA plug and put it 
> on an
> R&S ZVB-8 network analyzer and measured S11. I could see the 5 MHz resonance
> as a 15 dB dip.  There was also a resonance at 5.45 and a smaller one another 
> 90 KHz
> higher. the +10% suggest that it is an SC cut.
> But I could not see anything at 1 or 1. MHz, so it should be a 
> fundamental crystal?
> Is that common?
> I made most measurements at room temperature. I can turn the hot air solder
> station down to 91°C which is not far away from the crystal's 87.7°C
> inflection point, and I could see some variation on the 5.45 MHz resonance 
> vs. temp.
> I must build a fixture for the hot air because the sweep time at 1 Hz 
> bandwidth
> is close to eternal.
> Is the un-harmonicity (???) between fundamental and overtones stronger with 
> SC-cuts
> than normal AT? I also could not see anything at 15 MHz. Next I'll make a 
> board
> for the PI fixture as described by Bernd Neubig in his crystal cookbook.
> BTW I could see some more dips with >= 10 Hz resolution. I hope that does not 
> mean
> that the ZVB needs service.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to 
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
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