Re: [time-nuts] Vibration isolation of quartz oscillators
ed breya writes: > The nicest optical bench I've ever seen in person, was in one of our > labs many years ago. It was a huge, precisely flat polished granite slab > about 6-8" thick, about 4x8' or maybe 5x10', mounted on active-leveling > pneumatic bladders. It was loaded with thousands of threaded inserts, > uniformly spaced on a grid, for mounting optical devices and equipment. It is worth foot-noting here, that at that level of quality they are usually not made from natural granite, but rather from "epoxy-granite", which can be designed to have very low temp-co. > There are lower-grade type platforms available, commonly called "optical > breadboards," that are made from thick sheets of aluminum or stainless > steel, [...] and these obviously have a sizeable temp-co, so the money you saved on your bench you get to spend on your air-con. They are a lot easier to move around though. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Vibration isolation of quartz oscillators
The nicest optical bench I've ever seen in person, was in one of our labs many years ago. It was a huge, precisely flat polished granite slab about 6-8" thick, about 4x8' or maybe 5x10', mounted on active-leveling pneumatic bladders. It was loaded with thousands of threaded inserts, uniformly spaced on a grid, for mounting optical devices and equipment. There are lower-grade type platforms available, commonly called "optical breadboards," that are made from thick sheets of aluminum or stainless steel, that are formed into a fairly rigid 3-D structure with a honeycomb interior bonded between the outer sheets. They likewise have a grid of threaded holes or inserts. I have a few small ones of these, salvaged from old equipment. They are about 16" square and 3" thick, with a grid of 1/4-20 threads on 1" centers. Ed ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Vibration isolation of quartz oscillators
In my youth I worked for a time in my dad's automotive machine shop. We did a lot of work on medium-sized industrial engines, Cummins V-12s, GMC V16-71s, International TD-24s, etc. To handle these we bought a Van Norman crankshaft grinder, a sizable machine, which I operated. The shop was in downtown Tucson, right across the street from the (then) Southern Pacific Railroad tracks. The grinder was originally installed right on the 6" thick concrete slab floor. It wasn't long before I noticed that if I was grinding a journal when a trail rumbled by I got runout and had to pause grinding until the train passed We wound up moving the machine and digging a hole about 2-3 meters deep and about 2 by 3 meters "square", lining it with fiberboard and filling it up with concrete and reinstalling the machine on top. About two years ago that building was demolished as part of a "modernization" of downtown (it's still a vacant lot) and I wondered how surprised they were when they went to remove the slab. Wes N7WS On 6/28/2020 8:05 AM, Dr. David Kirkby wrote: Dr David Kirkby Ph.D C.Eng MIET Email: drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk Web: https://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/ Kirkby Microwave Ltd (Tel 01621-680100 / +44 1621-680100) Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Chelmsford, Essex, CM3 6DT. On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 at 12:44, Tom Van Baak wrote: About slabs and stability... Around the world there must be a hundred precision time labs, including official NMI (National Metrology Institute) labs that contribute to the calculation of UTC itself. You run into photos of these labs and their T&F gear on the web all the time when you search for time nutty stuff. Those of us with home labs -- even if just a few vintage frequency standards -- can relate. Anyone, one of my favorite lab photos is from VSL, the Dutch Metrology Institute. Photo attached. [1] Spend time time pan/zooming around the gear in the photo. The usual suspects: hp 105 quartz; TimeTech (I think); lots of SDI (Spectradynamics); also Truetime or Symmetricom stuff; maybe that's an old Tracor/Fluke VLF receiver on the far right (?); and of course lots of Stanford Research SR620 counters, the TIC still used by almost every time lab. But what really caught my eye was not just the four hp 5071A in the foreground but *how they are mounted* -- on top of massive granite blocks! There's a picture of a granite block here, at a former place I used to work as a student - EQD Aquila, the MODs calibration labs. https://www.derelictplaces.co.uk/main/military-sites/14101-aquila-mod-testing-facility-bromley-march-2004-a.html#.XvirQuco9PY about 60% of the way down the page. (Some of the pictures are quite amusing, as well as some of scientific interest). There's a couple of guys at my radio club used to work somewhere where a milling machine was turning high precision device. I just phoned one to ask what they used for anti-vibration, as I knew they took some precautions. He said they had dug a hole about 2 m into the ground, above that was 600 mm of "rubber", then 1.4 m of reinforced concrete. That used to stop lorries messing up the work. That's a different sort of application. I assume the OPs objects are quite large - not wrist watches. Otherwise, I was wondering if an active damping system might be practical. They certainly exist for laser tables https://www.newport.com/n/active-vibration-damping but I would imagine that for heavy 19" rack equipment, there would need to be quite a bit of power consumed in such a system. I've never done any calculations - just intuitively, I can't imagine that one could achieve anything useful without some pretty big power amplifiers. When I worked at UCL we had a laser table. Our department was near a main road. The laser table had gas-filled "dampers", but apparently these made the vibration problems worse rather than better, so the gas was removed. We never had any active system. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FW: HP-5732A operation with no CRT display.
I'll check my 5372A manual to see if I can be of any help. Don W4WJ On Sunday, June 28, 2020 ed breya wrote: I have a 5372A, and way back when I got it, I of course looked for the manual and think I got the pdf. As I recall, this was from the era where HP still provided full "real" manuals with all the schematics etc. The exception sometimes is if the entire display is an OEM unit, treated as a single component, and minimally documented. I don't recall much of the guts, as it's been a lot of years since I saw the inside. Do you have the regular manual? Is the display an OEM unit, or actually HP-made? If it's all HP, then it seems the schematics should be around somewhere, unless maybe accidentally left out of the printing somehow. Ed ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FW: HP-5732A operation with no CRT display.
Lester, I think looking at the parts list in the Service manual from Artek it’s a bought out all in one unit. If I recall the BOM has one line item. Have you checked with Walter at Sphere? He has the next PN in the sequence which is a Sony Color display. Or check with Newscope for a LCD replacement. My new to me 5372A has a bright screen but I noticed it glitched a few times yesterday. The size changed for an instant a couple of time but other wise is working. Dave Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 28, 2020, at 5:50 PM, ed breya wrote: > > I have a 5372A, and way back when I got it, I of course looked for the > manual and think I got the pdf. As I recall, this was from the era where HP > still provided full "real" manuals with all the schematics etc. The exception > sometimes is if the entire display is an OEM unit, treated as a single > component, and minimally documented. I don't recall much of the guts, as it's > been a lot of years since I saw the inside. > > Do you have the regular manual? Is the display an OEM unit, or actually > HP-made? If it's all HP, then it seems the schematics should be around > somewhere, unless maybe accidentally left out of the printing somehow. > > Ed > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FW: HP-5732A operation with no CRT display.
I have a 5372A, and way back when I got it, I of course looked for the manual and think I got the pdf. As I recall, this was from the era where HP still provided full "real" manuals with all the schematics etc. The exception sometimes is if the entire display is an OEM unit, treated as a single component, and minimally documented. I don't recall much of the guts, as it's been a lot of years since I saw the inside. Do you have the regular manual? Is the display an OEM unit, or actually HP-made? If it's all HP, then it seems the schematics should be around somewhere, unless maybe accidentally left out of the printing somehow. Ed ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] HP5370B parts needed
I am trying bring HP5370B back to life. It is missing power supply board and display interface board. If anyone has a spare or a junk machine and interested in selling, please let me know. Display interface board is the one second from the left. Power supply card is by itself, close to banks of filter capacitors. Thank you. --- (Mr.) Taka Kamiya KB4EMF / ex JF2DKG ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FW: HP-5372A operation with no CRT display.
Steve: I probably will be reduced to stealing the two assemblies from a 71 to go into the 72 Lester B Veenstra K1YCM MØYCM W8YCM 6Y6Y les...@veenstras.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FW: HP-5372A operation with no CRT display.
Yes, but no schematics visible. Lester B Veenstra K1YCM MØYCM W8YCM 6Y6Y les...@veenstras.com -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@lists.febo.com] On Behalf Of Dave Miller Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 11:31 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FW: HP-5732A operation with no CRT display. Lester, All I can find is the PN 2090-0209 for the whole assembly. Dave VE7HR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FW: HP-5732A operation with no CRT display.
Lester, Might that be a 5372A? 😉 I have it’s brother, the 5371A. I turn it on every few months to make sure it’s still working. I’m going to be away for at least a week but will look for my documentation when I return. My 5371A is on the disposal list as I start my downsizing. Steve WB0DBS > On Jun 28, 2020, at 9:29 AM, Lester Veenstra via time-nuts > wrote: > > > > TimeNuts: > > > >I have a HP 5732A with a defective CRT driver board. Since this (A17) > is undocumented (as no repairable) I am of course trying to work my way > around it to see if the defect is findable. > > > > Any A17 boards loose out there, or even better, documentation? > > I see good H and V sync inputs as well as the ZMod (Video data) into the > board, bur the drive for the two deflection coils is not what I would > expect. > > > > Trace is some where up off crt but with vertical coils disconnected, still > no horizontal line. > > With no drives connected to H & V coils, dim spot in center. Spot moves well > in both axis with low voltage DC applied. > > > > > > However, it occurs to me; Does anyone have HPIB code that allows use of the > instrument without the GUI user interface? > > I seem to recall some discussion of “raw data” dumps turned into useful > measurements. > > > > > > Lester B Veenstra K1YCM MØYCM W8YCM 6Y6Y > > les...@veenstras.com > > > > 452 Stable Ln (HC84 RFD USPS Mail) > > Keyser WV 26726 > > > > GPS: 39.336826 N 78.982287 W (Google) > > GPS: 39.33682 N 78.9823741 W (GPSDO) > > > > > > Telephones: > > Home: +1-304-289-6057 > > US cell+1-304-790-9192 > > Jamaica cell: +1-876-456-8898 > > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FW: HP-5372A operation with no CRT display.
"You can get a bitmap of the screen using "INTERFACE;PSOURCE,DISPLAY;PRINT", but it is not particularly fast and comes with gratis PCL escapes, but it does work." Interesting, I will look into it as a way to get a starting point, atleast for initial tests and diadnostics --- "If you dump the raw measurements, that's precisely what you get, and you will need to do all the processing, math and plotting yourself.: Well in the world of Linux/Python, processing, math and plotting, these are not really big difficulties Lester B Veenstra K1YCM MØYCM W8YCM 6Y6Y les...@veenstras.com 452 Stable Ln (HC84 RFD USPS Mail) Keyser WV 26726 GPS: 39.336826 N 78.982287 W (Google) GPS: 39.33682 N 78.9823741 W (GPSDO) Telephones: Home: +1-304-289-6057 US cell +1-304-790-9192 Jamaica cell: +1-876-456-8898 -Original Message- From: Poul-Henning Kamp [mailto:p...@phk.freebsd.dk] Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 11:21 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Cc: Lester Veenstra Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FW: HP-5732A operation with no CRT display. Lester Veenstra via time-nuts writes: I assume you mean HP-5372A and not 5732A ? > I see good H and V sync inputs as well as the ZMod (Video data) into the > board, bur the drive for the two deflection coils is not what I would > expect. The 5372 uses a weird video-format, 19KHz horizontal and 60Hz vertical, but it might be possible to find a LCD panel which can do that. There are two bits of video, "half intensity" and "full intensity", so a color panel would be required. > However, it occurs to me; Does anyone have HPIB code that allows use of the > instrument without the GUI user interface? I've never quite gotten the hang of HPIB with the HP5372, the HPIB is very geared towards moving the raw binary data, and not very much towards "remote front-panel". You can get a bitmap of the screen using "INTERFACE;PSOURCE,DISPLAY;PRINT", but it is not particularly fast and comes with gratis PCL escapes, but it does work. If you dump the raw measurements, that's precisely what you get, and you will need to do all the processing, math and plotting yourself. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FW: HP-5372A operation with no CRT display.
I assume you mean HP-5372A---Yes, of course. Mind not fully in control Lester B Veenstra K1YCM MØYCM W8YCM 6Y6Y les...@veenstras.com 452 Stable Ln (HC84 RFD USPS Mail) Keyser WV 26726 GPS: 39.336826 N 78.982287 W (Google) GPS: 39.33682 N 78.9823741 W (GPSDO) Telephones: Home: +1-304-289-6057 US cell +1-304-790-9192 Jamaica cell: +1-876-456-8898 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FW: HP-5732A operation with no CRT display.
Lester, All I can find is the PN 2090-0209 for the whole assembly. Dave VE7HR On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 7:29 AM Lester Veenstra via time-nuts < time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > > > TimeNuts: > > > > I have a HP 5732A with a defective CRT driver board. Since this (A17) > is undocumented (as no repairable) I am of course trying to work my way > around it to see if the defect is findable. > > > > Any A17 boards loose out there, or even better, documentation? > > I see good H and V sync inputs as well as the ZMod (Video data) into the > board, bur the drive for the two deflection coils is not what I would > expect. > > > > Trace is some where up off crt but with vertical coils disconnected, still > no horizontal line. > > With no drives connected to H & V coils, dim spot in center. Spot moves > well > in both axis with low voltage DC applied. > > > > > > However, it occurs to me; Does anyone have HPIB code that allows use of > the > instrument without the GUI user interface? > > I seem to recall some discussion of “raw data” dumps turned into useful > measurements. > > > > > > Lester B Veenstra K1YCM MØYCM W8YCM 6Y6Y > > les...@veenstras.com > > > > 452 Stable Ln (HC84 RFD USPS Mail) > > Keyser WV 26726 > > > > GPS: 39.336826 N 78.982287 W (Google) > > GPS: 39.33682 N 78.9823741 W (GPSDO) > > > > > > Telephones: > > Home: +1-304-289-6057 > > US cell+1-304-790-9192 > > Jamaica cell: +1-876-456-8898 > > > > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com > and follow the instructions there. > -- 72 de Dave VE7HR ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Vibration isolation of quartz oscillators
Dr David Kirkby Ph.D C.Eng MIET Email: drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk Web: https://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/ Kirkby Microwave Ltd (Tel 01621-680100 / +44 1621-680100) Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Chelmsford, Essex, CM3 6DT. On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 at 12:44, Tom Van Baak wrote: > About slabs and stability... Around the world there must be a hundred > precision time labs, including official NMI (National Metrology > Institute) labs that contribute to the calculation of UTC itself. You > run into photos of these labs and their T&F gear on the web all the time > when you search for time nutty stuff. Those of us with home labs -- even > if just a few vintage frequency standards -- can relate. > > Anyone, one of my favorite lab photos is from VSL, the Dutch Metrology > Institute. Photo attached. [1] > > Spend time time pan/zooming around the gear in the photo. The usual > suspects: hp 105 quartz; TimeTech (I think); lots of SDI > (Spectradynamics); also Truetime or Symmetricom stuff; maybe that's an > old Tracor/Fluke VLF receiver on the far right (?); and of course lots > of Stanford Research SR620 counters, the TIC still used by almost every > time lab. > > But what really caught my eye was not just the four hp 5071A in the > foreground but *how they are mounted* -- on top of massive granite blocks! > There's a picture of a granite block here, at a former place I used to work as a student - EQD Aquila, the MODs calibration labs. https://www.derelictplaces.co.uk/main/military-sites/14101-aquila-mod-testing-facility-bromley-march-2004-a.html#.XvirQuco9PY about 60% of the way down the page. (Some of the pictures are quite amusing, as well as some of scientific interest). There's a couple of guys at my radio club used to work somewhere where a milling machine was turning high precision device. I just phoned one to ask what they used for anti-vibration, as I knew they took some precautions. He said they had dug a hole about 2 m into the ground, above that was 600 mm of "rubber", then 1.4 m of reinforced concrete. That used to stop lorries messing up the work. That's a different sort of application. I assume the OPs objects are quite large - not wrist watches. Otherwise, I was wondering if an active damping system might be practical. They certainly exist for laser tables https://www.newport.com/n/active-vibration-damping but I would imagine that for heavy 19" rack equipment, there would need to be quite a bit of power consumed in such a system. I've never done any calculations - just intuitively, I can't imagine that one could achieve anything useful without some pretty big power amplifiers. When I worked at UCL we had a laser table. Our department was near a main road. The laser table had gas-filled "dampers", but apparently these made the vibration problems worse rather than better, so the gas was removed. We never had any active system. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FW: HP-5732A operation with no CRT display.
Lester Veenstra via time-nuts writes: I assume you mean HP-5372A and not 5732A ? > I see good H and V sync inputs as well as the ZMod (Video data) into the > board, bur the drive for the two deflection coils is not what I would > expect. The 5372 uses a weird video-format, 19KHz horizontal and 60Hz vertical, but it might be possible to find a LCD panel which can do that. There are two bits of video, "half intensity" and "full intensity", so a color panel would be required. > However, it occurs to me; Does anyone have HPIB code that allows use of the > instrument without the GUI user interface? I've never quite gotten the hang of HPIB with the HP5372, the HPIB is very geared towards moving the raw binary data, and not very much towards "remote front-panel". You can get a bitmap of the screen using "INTERFACE;PSOURCE,DISPLAY;PRINT", but it is not particularly fast and comes with gratis PCL escapes, but it does work. If you dump the raw measurements, that's precisely what you get, and you will need to do all the processing, math and plotting yourself. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] FW: HP-5732A operation with no CRT display.
TimeNuts: I have a HP 5732A with a defective CRT driver board. Since this (A17) is undocumented (as no repairable) I am of course trying to work my way around it to see if the defect is findable. Any A17 boards loose out there, or even better, documentation? I see good H and V sync inputs as well as the ZMod (Video data) into the board, bur the drive for the two deflection coils is not what I would expect. Trace is some where up off crt but with vertical coils disconnected, still no horizontal line. With no drives connected to H & V coils, dim spot in center. Spot moves well in both axis with low voltage DC applied. However, it occurs to me; Does anyone have HPIB code that allows use of the instrument without the GUI user interface? I seem to recall some discussion of raw data dumps turned into useful measurements. Lester B Veenstra K1YCM MØYCM W8YCM 6Y6Y les...@veenstras.com 452 Stable Ln (HC84 RFD USPS Mail) Keyser WV 26726 GPS: 39.336826 N 78.982287 W (Google) GPS: 39.33682 N 78.9823741 W (GPSDO) Telephones: Home: +1-304-289-6057 US cell+1-304-790-9192 Jamaica cell: +1-876-456-8898 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Vibration isolation of quartz oscillators
Tom Van Baak writes: > Note the unknown mystery support technique underneath. No mystery at all. Such supports are standard equipment for a lot of "nano" kit, such as optical tables, SEM microscopes and similar. Google "optical table vibration isolation" and you will find lots of heavy duty stuff. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Elpromatime (Was Re: time-nuts Digest, Vol 191, Issue 28)
From: Dave B via time-nuts [] Also, has anyone tried this? (An alternative to Meinberg on Windows perhaps...) https://elpromatime.com/downloads/I'd take a look, but I don't run Windows here any more. Cheers n beers. Dave G8KBV Dave, It's the same version level as Meinberg (both one release out of date), and as Meinberg's compilation of the port works I don't see any reason to change. Make me wonder why they are bringing out their version. 73, David GM8ARV -- SatSignal Software - Quality software for you Web: https://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk Twitter: @gm8arv ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Vibration isolation of quartz oscillators
Once I get my OSA 8607 back I plan on mounting it along with a FRK/M100 RB in a HP chassis. Attached a picture of a vibration mount for the OSA. Very soft. Can not be used for the Rb because of weight but also vibration mounted. The Rb is fan cooled with a Sunon MagLev 80X80x15 30db(A) mounted with rubber mounts that where sold at one time for hard disk drives. I can not feel or hear any thing on the housing. I turned in to a frequency nut while living in Miami so when I moved to Palm City that included massive downsizing the lab down to 9 by 20 feet, my work bench with all instruments except frequency take up 240X31 inches. The frequency instruments are in a short 19 inch rack on the opposite side. Home is on a concrete slab and walls are concrete block Miami code. In the corner a half size Sears bench with a half height 19 inch rack. The unit will be placed on top which will be eye level. Right now there is soft foam with a metal plate will be replaced with 1 inch 18X18 marble. Will experiment with soft foam versus bubble pack. My biggest problem is the HP54132A, I have one on each side. To much vibration. That is why I bought a FA2. My HP5065A which has super AV rests on a shelf mounted on the outside wall since it is not part of my long term plan but is needed during testing of the Rb/OSA. The limited space forces me to make decisions. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Precise Pendulum
Interesting ... They quote - “At the other end of the scale, gravity dominates over very long distances, while quantum effects vanish entirely at these distances.” I thought quantum entanglement was valid over any distance - Einstein’s “spooky action at a distance”. Thus offering the possibility of instantaneous transfer of information over stellar distances. This is one of the problems they are trying to sort out with the incompatibility of the two conflicting hypothesis. To then dismiss one of the ‘strange’ properties of quantum mechanics where there is an apparent overlap, right at the beginning, seems a bit strange. John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Vibration isolation of quartz oscillators
Through the mysteries of business consolidation and the resulting asset transfers, I have in my Virginia basement a rather nice Zeiss metallurgical microscope (which I have absolutely no use for but I couldn't stand to see consigned to a dumpster), which is perched on its original mount, a 30"x48"x4" granite slab. The slab sits on a square-tube-steel table that is actually a low-pressure vessel that has four round rubber bladders mounted in the top corners, holding up the slab. Each bladder has its own valve which has a short arm that contacts the bottom of the slab and servos that corner of the slab. This marvellous air-suspension microscope has tags indicating it came from AT&T Bell Labs in NJ. Since it shares the basement with three milling machines and one lathe, my kids will already have their hands full when my time comes, so what the hell... ;-) 73, geo - n4ua On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 7:44 AM Tom Van Baak wrote: > About slabs and stability... Around the world there must be a hundred > precision time labs, including official NMI (National Metrology > Institute) labs that contribute to the calculation of UTC itself. You > run into photos of these labs and their T&F gear on the web all the time > when you search for time nutty stuff. Those of us with home labs -- even > if just a few vintage frequency standards -- can relate. > > Anyone, one of my favorite lab photos is from VSL, the Dutch Metrology > Institute. Photo attached. [1] > > Spend time time pan/zooming around the gear in the photo. The usual > suspects: hp 105 quartz; TimeTech (I think); lots of SDI > (Spectradynamics); also Truetime or Symmetricom stuff; maybe that's an > old Tracor/Fluke VLF receiver on the far right (?); and of course lots > of Stanford Research SR620 counters, the TIC still used by almost every > time lab. > > But what really caught my eye was not just the four hp 5071A in the > foreground but *how they are mounted* -- on top of massive granite blocks! > > The answer is [42]. In this case the question is how many cm wide is a > 5071A cesium clock? That means the scale of the 1600x1200 JPG is about > 1.5 mm per pixel, which implies the blocks are exactly 50x50x40 cm. > That's nearly half a ton of mass. Note the unknown mystery support > technique underneath. Either they had spare black granite blocks lying > around their office that looked really cool or they put some thought > into vibration isolation of their clocks. Still, tell me more about > inner tubes. > > I personally don't know the background of this setup. If you have VSL or > .NL connections please let us know. I remember when I first talked with > them about their lab many years ago, the UTC(VSL) BIPM stability numbers > seemed unusually good to me for "a national lab with only 4 cesium > clocks" so the granite blocks left a heavy impression on me. > > Anyway, for those of you looking for maximum quartz oscillator / > frequency standard stability and vibration isolation, maybe the granite > block isolation idea is worth looking into. I know Michael mentioned > space constraints for his BVA so this rock solid slab solution might not > help him. > > /tvb > > [1] I can't find the original vsl.nl web photo that I remember. But a > recent one like it is: > > https://elpromatime.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/VSL.jpg , via: > > https://elpromatime.com/portfolio_page/time-server-nts9000 , via: > > many google image searches for words including: VSL dutch metrology .nl > caesium 5071a clocks UTC BIPM > > [42] > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42_(number)#The_Hitchhiker's_Guide_to_the_Galaxy > > > On 6/27/2020 5:09 PM, Neville Michie wrote: > > An old trick I learned from an Australian standards lab was to make a > vibration free > > table with a 2 foot by 2 foot by 2 inch paving slab supported by a > partly inflated > > wheel barrow inner tube. > > I tried it recently for measurements of force in an electric clock > movement > > and it cut out the background vibration in a spectacular way. > > cheers, Neville Michie > > > >> On 27 Jun 2020, at 22:02, Michael Wouters > wrote: > >> > >> I have three Oscilloquartz 8607-Bs that I'm rehousing. > >> > >> In their former life they were part of the frequency synthesis chains > >> for H-masers and they hung vertically from a rubber suspension that was > >> presumably intended to provide vibration isolation. Unfortunately, the > >> person responsible for this has long since retired so is no longer > >> around to ask questions of. > >> > >> In the experiment I will be averaging over 100 s, which suggests to > >> me that very low frequencies are what I need to filter out (if at > >> all), and I am skeptical that the rubber will do this. Space is tight > >> so I am wondering > >> whether I should simply ditch the isolation. > >> > >> What do other people do with their quartzes ? I thought I should ask > >> for some advice before attempting measurements. > >> > >> Cheers > >> Michael > >> > >>
[time-nuts] Elpromatime (Was Re: time-nuts Digest, Vol 191, Issue 28)
A funny looking "SMA" ended cable https://elpromatime.com/portfolio_page/time-server-nts-pico/ (Scroll down.) Also, has anyone tried this? (An alternative to Meinberg on Windows perhaps...) https://elpromatime.com/downloads/ I'd take a look, but I don't run Windows here any more. Cheers n beers. Dave G8KBV On 28/06/2020 12:44, time-nuts-requ...@lists.febo.com wrote: > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2020 04:32:49 -0700 > From: Tom Van Baak > To: time-nuts@lists.febo.com > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Vibration isolation of quartz oscillators > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" > > About slabs and stability... Around the world there must be a hundred > precision time labs, including official NMI (National Metrology > Institute) labs that contribute to the calculation of UTC itself. You > run into photos of these labs and their T&F gear on the web all the time > when you search for time nutty stuff. Those of us with home labs -- even > if just a few vintage frequency standards -- can relate. > > Anyone, one of my favorite lab photos is from VSL, the Dutch Metrology > Institute. Photo attached. [1] > > Spend time time pan/zooming around the gear in the photo. The usual > suspects: hp 105 quartz; TimeTech (I think); lots of SDI > (Spectradynamics); also Truetime or Symmetricom stuff; maybe that's an > old Tracor/Fluke VLF receiver on the far right (?); and of course lots > of Stanford Research SR620 counters, the TIC still used by almost every > time lab. > > But what really caught my eye was not just the four hp 5071A in the > foreground but *how they are mounted* -- on top of massive granite blocks! > > The answer is [42]. In this case the question is how many cm wide is a > 5071A cesium clock? That means the scale of the 1600x1200 JPG is about > 1.5 mm per pixel, which implies the blocks are exactly 50x50x40 cm. > That's nearly half a ton of mass. Note the unknown mystery support > technique underneath. Either they had spare black granite blocks lying > around their office that looked really cool or they put some thought > into vibration isolation of their clocks. Still, tell me more about > inner tubes. > > I personally don't know the background of this setup. If you have VSL or > .NL connections please let us know. I remember when I first talked with > them about their lab many years ago, the UTC(VSL) BIPM stability numbers > seemed unusually good to me for "a national lab with only 4 cesium > clocks" so the granite blocks left a heavy impression on me. > > Anyway, for those of you looking for maximum quartz oscillator / > frequency standard stability and vibration isolation, maybe the granite > block isolation idea is worth looking into. I know Michael mentioned > space constraints for his BVA so this rock solid slab solution might not > help him. > > /tvb > > [1] I can't find the original vsl.nl web photo that I remember. But a > recent one like it is: > > https://elpromatime.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/VSL.jpg , via: > > https://elpromatime.com/portfolio_page/time-server-nts9000 , via: > > many google image searches for words including: VSL dutch metrology .nl > caesium 5071a clocks UTC BIPM > > -- Created on and sent from a Unix like PC running and using free and open source software: ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Precise pendulum
https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/06/tiny-pendulum-may-reveal-gravitys-secrets/ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Vibration isolation of quartz oscillators
Neville Michie writes: > An old trick I learned from an Australian standards lab was to make a > vibration free > table with a 2 foot by 2 foot by 2 inch paving slab supported by a partly > inflated > wheel barrow inner tube. Yes, that works surprisingly well, because the toroid shape of the inner tube. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com and follow the instructions there.
