[time-nuts] Regarding HP 5065A upgrade to 10811-oscillators
Hi, The -60109 usually does have the very good short term stability at short Tau but to actually use it you need to go open loop on the 5065A or 5061A/B. In closed loop the instrument actually drives the stability and pretty much any 10811 variant will work. HP knew this and recommended going open loop to test stabilities at the shorter Tau. Cheers, Corby ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: Help needed IDing GPS antenna
Hi John, Since TOPCON is a manufacturer of topographic instruments, I think that this antenna is used for this kind of work. GPS antennas made for geodesy or surveying usually have a very good quality and their prices are according to it. But given the label at the bottom it could be used by UPS and its subsidiaries installed on their trucks and vans for tracking them. In this case the antenna class is a common navigation one. Ignacio El 08/02/2022 a las 21:31, John Miller via time-nuts escribió: Hey all, I'm looking for a specs sheet for an antenna i recently got my hands on. It's marked Topcon on the top, II Morrow Inc model 590-1114 on the bottom. I've tried searching in all the usual places but haven't found anything yet. If anyone could send anything my way that would be much appreciated! Some pictures here: https://photos.millerjs.org/?f=Topcon+Antenna Thanks, John -- El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electrónico en busca de virus. https://www.avast.com/antivirus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: Regarding HP 5065A upgrade to 10811-oscillators
Hi Again, there is no basic difference between the 10811-60109 and any other 10811 with the same basic pinout. ( They made two packages, one with an edge connector. Eventually they wrapped one up to put it in a GPSDO). The only difference between the 60109 was a test and select process back when it was made. Its been long enough since that test for it to be totally meaningless. Bob > On Feb 12, 2022, at 10:15 AM, Bill Notfaded wrote: > > Good morning- > > My 5065A has a 10811-60109. I thought that was a standard and part of the > reason they work so well? > > > Best Regards, > > Bill > > > On Sat, Feb 12, 2022, 7:21 AM Bob kb8tq wrote: > >> Hi >> >> You just might find that kit will drop into a 5065 with minor >> mods….. >> >> Bob >> >>> On Feb 12, 2022, at 8:39 AM, Ke-Fong Lin wrote: >>> >>> Hi everyone, >>> >>> Last month, I bought a 10811-60109 on ebay, it was sold with the >>> complete oscillator assembly for a 5061A/B cesium clock. >>> I bought it for the 10811-60109 because it has somewhat better >>> specifications than a regular 10811. >>> >>> It was sold as a spare from military surplus. I've taken a quick look >>> and it seems compatible with the older 5061A connections. >>> I mean electronically, but I'm not so sure about the mechanical part. >>> So it may well be such an upgrade kit, but for 5061. >>> >>> The PCB board doesn't seem complicated and HP basically used >>> "jellybean" components on it. >>> But as for the mechanical part, there would be some work to do. >>> >>> By the way, if somebody wants to do the upgrade for a 5061, I can >>> basically give him/her the complete assembly. >>> Minus the 10811-60109 of course :) >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> On Sat, Feb 12, 2022 at 2:10 PM Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts >>> wrote: Greetings forum. Yes - I have performed this upgrade, having obtaineda 10811 / high >> performance option. While the complete original HP kit was not available, I salvagedthe >> 10->5 MHz divider/connection board from a 105Band re-designed the back PCB >> with the 2 x 15pole 3.96 pitch connectors and mechanics so that the design would be ableto fit into the 5065A chassis in a way >> that the10811 Coarse adjustment could be reached with a longadjustment tool >> directly. Picture(s) available upon request. I have the design files (Cadence Allegro) as well asGerber/Drill files >> for anyone that want to fabricate sucha back plate board. Please contact me off-list if you want thedesign files. Best Regards Ulf KylenfallSM6GXV ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe >> send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> /* Lin Ke-Fong >>> * another...@gmail.com >>> * I always do what I say, especially if it's something stupid. >>> */ >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe >> send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send >> an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an > email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Types of noise (was: Phase Station 53100A Questions)
On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 18:25:05 -0500 Joseph Gwinn wrote: > May not realize that thermal noise (additive) and phase > noise (multiplicative) are not the same, and do not behave the same. It seems like you are mixing up here quite a few different concepts: Phase noise vs amplitude noise, additive vs multiplicative noise, thermal vs other noise sources, white noise vs 1/f^a-noise. All these are orthogonal to each other and you can pick and match them. I.e. Phase noise can be additive, 1/f^2-noise and thermal. Amplitude and phase noise are looking at noise from two different perspective. One is how large the variation of the peak of a sine wave is, the other is how much the zero crossing varies in time. Note that all natural noise sources will be both amplitude and phase noise. What makes them one or the other is how we treat them in our system. E.g., amplitude noise is often relative easy to supress with some AGC system. Or, passing through amplifiers amplitude noise and phase noise gets different "treatment" and thus the noise figure amplifier for each of them will end up being different. Whether noise is additive or multiplicative is not a property of the noise itself, but a property where in the system it appears. E.g. while in school we always treat all noise sources in an amplifiers additive, once we get out and start engineering we add up noise figure values in dB. Which means we treat them as multiplicative noise. In reality most systems have both additive and multiplicative behaviour, but often one is dominant over the other. In RF systems, due to having multiple non-linear stages, noise is almost always dominantly multiplicative. Last but not least, the power spectral density or whether noise is white or 1/f^a is depends which of the noise sources is dominant at which frequency. Obviously, 1/f^a is the dominant one for low frequencies. While for white noise we have good models that explain them (either thermal/Johnson noise or shot noise, usually), we do not have a proper explanation for 1/f^a noise. Most seem to agree that at least 1/f^1 noise in semiconductors, the most likely cause is trapping of electrons (though that explanation has quite some problem). Please note that for very low frequencies what we declare to be noise in noise spectra is usually related to environmental effects, which I personally would not bunch together with "normal" noise processes, as their treatment/mitigation has to be done differently. Attila Kinali -- The driving force behind research is the question: "Why?" There are things we don't understand and things we always wonder about. And that's why we do research. -- Kobayashi Makoto ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: Regarding HP 5065A upgrade to 10811-oscillators
Hi You just might find that kit will drop into a 5065 with minor mods….. Bob > On Feb 12, 2022, at 8:39 AM, Ke-Fong Lin wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > Last month, I bought a 10811-60109 on ebay, it was sold with the > complete oscillator assembly for a 5061A/B cesium clock. > I bought it for the 10811-60109 because it has somewhat better > specifications than a regular 10811. > > It was sold as a spare from military surplus. I've taken a quick look > and it seems compatible with the older 5061A connections. > I mean electronically, but I'm not so sure about the mechanical part. > So it may well be such an upgrade kit, but for 5061. > > The PCB board doesn't seem complicated and HP basically used > "jellybean" components on it. > But as for the mechanical part, there would be some work to do. > > By the way, if somebody wants to do the upgrade for a 5061, I can > basically give him/her the complete assembly. > Minus the 10811-60109 of course :) > > Best regards, > > On Sat, Feb 12, 2022 at 2:10 PM Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts > wrote: >> >> >> Greetings forum. >> Yes - I have performed this upgrade, having obtaineda 10811 / high >> performance option. >> >> While the complete original HP kit was not available, I salvagedthe 10->5 >> MHz divider/connection board from a 105Band re-designed the back PCB with >> the 2 x 15pole 3.96 pitch connectors and mechanics >> so that the design would be ableto fit into the 5065A chassis in a way that >> the10811 Coarse adjustment could be reached with a longadjustment tool >> directly. >> Picture(s) available upon request. >> >> I have the design files (Cadence Allegro) as well asGerber/Drill files for >> anyone that want to fabricate sucha back plate board. >> >> Please contact me off-list if you want thedesign files. >> Best Regards >> Ulf KylenfallSM6GXV >> >> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an >> email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. > > > > -- > /* Lin Ke-Fong > * another...@gmail.com > * I always do what I say, especially if it's something stupid. > */ > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an > email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: Regarding HP 5065A upgrade to 10811-oscillators
Hi everyone, Last month, I bought a 10811-60109 on ebay, it was sold with the complete oscillator assembly for a 5061A/B cesium clock. I bought it for the 10811-60109 because it has somewhat better specifications than a regular 10811. It was sold as a spare from military surplus. I've taken a quick look and it seems compatible with the older 5061A connections. I mean electronically, but I'm not so sure about the mechanical part. So it may well be such an upgrade kit, but for 5061. The PCB board doesn't seem complicated and HP basically used "jellybean" components on it. But as for the mechanical part, there would be some work to do. By the way, if somebody wants to do the upgrade for a 5061, I can basically give him/her the complete assembly. Minus the 10811-60109 of course :) Best regards, On Sat, Feb 12, 2022 at 2:10 PM Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts wrote: > > > Greetings forum. > Yes - I have performed this upgrade, having obtaineda 10811 / high > performance option. > > While the complete original HP kit was not available, I salvagedthe 10->5 MHz > divider/connection board from a 105Band re-designed the back PCB with the 2 x > 15pole 3.96 pitch connectors and mechanics > so that the design would be ableto fit into the 5065A chassis in a way that > the10811 Coarse adjustment could be reached with a longadjustment tool > directly. > Picture(s) available upon request. > > I have the design files (Cadence Allegro) as well asGerber/Drill files for > anyone that want to fabricate sucha back plate board. > > Please contact me off-list if you want thedesign files. > Best Regards > Ulf KylenfallSM6GXV > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an > email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. -- /* Lin Ke-Fong * another...@gmail.com * I always do what I say, especially if it's something stupid. */ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Regarding HP 5065A upgrade to 10811-oscillators
Greetings forum. Yes - I have performed this upgrade, having obtaineda 10811 / high performance option. While the complete original HP kit was not available, I salvagedthe 10->5 MHz divider/connection board from a 105Band re-designed the back PCB with the 2 x 15pole 3.96 pitch connectors and mechanics so that the design would be ableto fit into the 5065A chassis in a way that the10811 Coarse adjustment could be reached with a longadjustment tool directly. Picture(s) available upon request. I have the design files (Cadence Allegro) as well asGerber/Drill files for anyone that want to fabricate sucha back plate board. Please contact me off-list if you want thedesign files. Best Regards Ulf KylenfallSM6GXV ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
