[time-nuts] Re: PCTEL Timing Antenna with integrated GPS Receiver ?
Furuno was often the OEM (GT77/GT80) for these “All-in-One” antennas, like Symmetricom 58834A-H01 In 2015, I uploaded Furuno files to Didier, KO4BB repository. http://www.ko4bb.com/getsimple/index.php?id=manuals&dir=02_GPS_Timing greg, w9gb === Date: Sun, 9 May 2021 21:10:13 -0400 From: Bob kb8tq Subject: [time-nuts] Re: PCTEL Timing Antenna with integrated GPS Receiver? To: Hi One would guess that the GPS module in the device is something fairly normal. Motorola modules showed up in the early versions of this gizmo. Bob ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: PCTEL Timing Antenna with integrated GPS Receiver?
Hi One would guess that the GPS module in the device is something fairly normal. Motorola modules showed up in the early versions of this gizmo. Bob > On May 9, 2021, at 9:00 PM, John Miller via time-nuts > wrote: > > Tom, > Thanks for sharing - this looks very interesting. I don’t think it’s quite > identical, though. The unit I got was available in 232 and 422 (the one > coming to me is 232), and the data sheet for the PCTEL lists it as a 12 > channel receiver, whereas the 58534A is an 8 channel. > > Once it’s in my hands and I crack it open I’ll post pictures and we can > figure out for sure! > > John > >> On May 9, 2021, at 4:28 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote: >> >> The equivalent hp integrated timing antenna was the 58534a. You may find its >> documentation helpful: >> >> http://leapsecond.com/museum/hp58534a/ >> >> /tvb >> >> >> On 5/8/2021 6:36 PM, John Miller via time-nuts wrote: >>> I did mean this unit in particular, specifically I’m really interesting in >>> turning up the pinout for that connector. I have at least been able to find >>> a mating end for it. My past hour of furious googling has turned up >>> surprisingly little about this model. I am very interested in how it >>> performs. >>> >>> John >>> >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an >> email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an > email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: PCTEL Timing Antenna with integrated GPS Receiver?
Tom, Thanks for sharing - this looks very interesting. I don’t think it’s quite identical, though. The unit I got was available in 232 and 422 (the one coming to me is 232), and the data sheet for the PCTEL lists it as a 12 channel receiver, whereas the 58534A is an 8 channel. Once it’s in my hands and I crack it open I’ll post pictures and we can figure out for sure! John > On May 9, 2021, at 4:28 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote: > > The equivalent hp integrated timing antenna was the 58534a. You may find its > documentation helpful: > > http://leapsecond.com/museum/hp58534a/ > > /tvb > > > On 5/8/2021 6:36 PM, John Miller via time-nuts wrote: >> I did mean this unit in particular, specifically I’m really interesting in >> turning up the pinout for that connector. I have at least been able to find >> a mating end for it. My past hour of furious googling has turned up >> surprisingly little about this model. I am very interested in how it >> performs. >> >> John >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an > email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: PCTEL Timing Antenna with integrated GPS Receiver?
The equivalent hp integrated timing antenna was the 58534a. You may find its documentation helpful: http://leapsecond.com/museum/hp58534a/ /tvb On 5/8/2021 6:36 PM, John Miller via time-nuts wrote: I did mean this unit in particular, specifically I’m really interesting in turning up the pinout for that connector. I have at least been able to find a mating end for it. My past hour of furious googling has turned up surprisingly little about this model. I am very interested in how it performs. John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: PCTEL Timing Antenna with integrated GPS Receiver?
> Generally speaking once power and ground are found everything else more or > less falls in place. Can you figure out power/ground with an ohmmeter? Or perhaps a battery, resistor, and voltmeter? Is the shell of the connector directly connected to one of the pins? -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: PCTEL Timing Antenna with integrated GPS Receiver?
paul swed writes: > I have used some pctel antennas and they have been very good over the > years. (Very good = works). The model number at least gives you a hint if > RS 422 or 232. But if you can't find any further detail you are stuck with > one option. If you can figure out how to power it, it is pretty trivial to see if the data stream is single-ended (RS232) or differential (RS422) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: PCTEL Timing Antenna with integrated GPS Receiver?
John Totally agree on the power and ground. Good to know you like to take them apart if required. On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 2:09 PM John Miller via time-nuts < time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > I take everything apart, so that much is a given - I just also like to > have as much original documentation as I can, especially if there are any > special initialization or configuration commands. Whatever I find I will > document for anyone else who gets one of these in the future. Generally > speaking once power and ground are found everything else more or less falls > in place. > > John > > > On May 9, 2021, at 10:48 AM, paul swed wrote: > > > > Back to the problem for a minute. > > I have used some pctel antennas and they have been very good over the > > years. (Very good = works). The model number at least gives you a hint if > > RS 422 or 232. But if you can't find any further detail you are stuck > with > > one option. > > Open it up and look. Most of these antennas can be opened and then > > re-assembled. The hardest part is ensuring a good seal. > > With respect to what's inside it should be reasonably apparent. Ground, > > Power to some linear regulator, maybe a RS422 chip or 232 driver. > Expected > > leads for 422 nema and 1 pps so that would be 4 pins right there. > > So you would be able to get the unit going if your willing to dig in. Pun > > intended. > > Good luck and let us know what you find. > > Regards > > Paul > > WB8TSL > > > > On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 8:11 AM Poul-Henning Kamp > wrote: > > > >> > >> Mike Ingle writes: > >> > >>> Hi, in reading between the lines, are you saying that in practice, the > >>> tempco of twisted pair is worse than the tempco of coax? > >> > >> I seriously doubt it. The change in coppers conductivity will not make > >> that kind of difference in propagation time until the cables are > measured > >> in kilometers. > >> > >> I suspect the tempco comes from the RS-422 linedriver chip in the > antenna > >> or possibly from ceramic capacitors used to control its slew-rate. > >> > >> -- > >> Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > >> p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > >> FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe > >> Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by > incompetence. > >> ___ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe > send > >> an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. > >> > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe > send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send > an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: PCTEL Timing Antenna with integrated GPS Receiver?
I take everything apart, so that much is a given - I just also like to have as much original documentation as I can, especially if there are any special initialization or configuration commands. Whatever I find I will document for anyone else who gets one of these in the future. Generally speaking once power and ground are found everything else more or less falls in place. John > On May 9, 2021, at 10:48 AM, paul swed wrote: > > Back to the problem for a minute. > I have used some pctel antennas and they have been very good over the > years. (Very good = works). The model number at least gives you a hint if > RS 422 or 232. But if you can't find any further detail you are stuck with > one option. > Open it up and look. Most of these antennas can be opened and then > re-assembled. The hardest part is ensuring a good seal. > With respect to what's inside it should be reasonably apparent. Ground, > Power to some linear regulator, maybe a RS422 chip or 232 driver. Expected > leads for 422 nema and 1 pps so that would be 4 pins right there. > So you would be able to get the unit going if your willing to dig in. Pun > intended. > Good luck and let us know what you find. > Regards > Paul > WB8TSL > > On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 8:11 AM Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > >> >> Mike Ingle writes: >> >>> Hi, in reading between the lines, are you saying that in practice, the >>> tempco of twisted pair is worse than the tempco of coax? >> >> I seriously doubt it. The change in coppers conductivity will not make >> that kind of difference in propagation time until the cables are measured >> in kilometers. >> >> I suspect the tempco comes from the RS-422 linedriver chip in the antenna >> or possibly from ceramic capacitors used to control its slew-rate. >> >> -- >> Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 >> p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 >> FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe >> Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send >> an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. >> > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an > email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: PCTEL Timing Antenna with integrated GPS Receiver?
Back to the problem for a minute. I have used some pctel antennas and they have been very good over the years. (Very good = works). The model number at least gives you a hint if RS 422 or 232. But if you can't find any further detail you are stuck with one option. Open it up and look. Most of these antennas can be opened and then re-assembled. The hardest part is ensuring a good seal. With respect to what's inside it should be reasonably apparent. Ground, Power to some linear regulator, maybe a RS422 chip or 232 driver. Expected leads for 422 nema and 1 pps so that would be 4 pins right there. So you would be able to get the unit going if your willing to dig in. Pun intended. Good luck and let us know what you find. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 8:11 AM Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > Mike Ingle writes: > > > Hi, in reading between the lines, are you saying that in practice, the > > tempco of twisted pair is worse than the tempco of coax? > > I seriously doubt it. The change in coppers conductivity will not make > that kind of difference in propagation time until the cables are measured > in kilometers. > > I suspect the tempco comes from the RS-422 linedriver chip in the antenna > or possibly from ceramic capacitors used to control its slew-rate. > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send > an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: PCTEL Timing Antenna with integrated GPS Receiver?
Mike Ingle writes: > Hi, in reading between the lines, are you saying that in practice, the > tempco of twisted pair is worse than the tempco of coax? I seriously doubt it. The change in coppers conductivity will not make that kind of difference in propagation time until the cables are measured in kilometers. I suspect the tempco comes from the RS-422 linedriver chip in the antenna or possibly from ceramic capacitors used to control its slew-rate. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: PCTEL Timing Antenna with integrated GPS Receiver?
Hi, in reading between the lines, are you saying that in practice, the tempco of twisted pair is worse than the tempco of coax? Wouldn't any install where that was critical include a loopback to calibrate out cable delay? On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 8:27 AM Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > Douglas Baker writes: > > > I am trying to figure what the advantage is for an antenna with the > > built-in GPS receiver is. > > On reason is that the running the twisted pairs through standard > preinstalled lightning protection barriers is trivial, whereas > certifying and finding space for a suitable lightning barrier > for coax is a lot of work. > > Another advantage is that you can reuse existing cabling in rented > buildings, instead of paying sometimes unbeliveable amounts to run > your coax to the roof. > > (One of the main reasons Telecome Cesiums are still a thing, is that > they often are much cheaper than renting space for a GPS antenna > on the roof and cabled down to your kit in the basement.) > > However, one downside is that the PPS signals may suffer from tempco > on the order of 1 µs/K. > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send > an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: PCTEL Timing Antenna with integrated GPS Receiver?
Douglas Baker writes: > I am trying to figure what the advantage is for an antenna with the > built-in GPS receiver is. On reason is that the running the twisted pairs through standard preinstalled lightning protection barriers is trivial, whereas certifying and finding space for a suitable lightning barrier for coax is a lot of work. Another advantage is that you can reuse existing cabling in rented buildings, instead of paying sometimes unbeliveable amounts to run your coax to the roof. (One of the main reasons Telecome Cesiums are still a thing, is that they often are much cheaper than renting space for a GPS antenna on the roof and cabled down to your kit in the basement.) However, one downside is that the PPS signals may suffer from tempco on the order of 1 µs/K. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: PCTEL Timing Antenna with integrated GPS Receiver?
Hi John, I am trying to figure what the advantage is for an antenna with the built-in GPS receiver is. This was the approach many years ago when low noise/high gain pre-amps were not available. Today, the good LNA's are cheap and work great. Plus this limits the use to just one user end application. With the standard GPS antenna & LNA you can use a 4-port (or more) splitter and distribute the signal to several receivers. And the cost of 8-conductor cable is probably more expensive than good LMR coax for the same length of run. And if you have a long run you would have to use RS422 instead of RS232 for a reliable setup. Pctel is a good company and they have done well with the timing antenna design that they took over from Micro Pulse. But I just don't think this will be a big seller for them. The only possible reason I can come up with to go this route would be that you have a lot of RFI in the lab or wherever and need to remote the receiver away from the RFI source. And even then that's not a guarantee! 73's Doug Baker On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 7:35 PM John Miller via time-nuts < time-nuts@lists.febo.com> wrote: > Hello All, > I was browsing around looking at surplussed reference antennas, like you > do, and I stumbled across something really interesting and impulse bought > it because it was cheap enough. It’s a PCTEL GPS-TMG-RCVR232-NLM - the 232 > in the model name may catch your eye. Before reading the model number, what > got me was the connector on the bottom - not N or TNC like you may expect, > but a large aviation-style 8 pin DIN connector. > > I found a spec sheet here: > https://www.winncom.com/pdf/PCTel_GPS_TMG_RCVR/PCTel_GPS-TMG-RCVR_Series.pdf > < > https://www.winncom.com/pdf/PCTel_GPS_TMG_RCVR/PCTel_GPS-TMG-RCVR_Series.pdf > > > > Nothing too impressive, but it looks neat to me. As long as it doesn’t > have leap second issues, I’m going to incorporate it into the rest of my > stack. > > Has anyone ever used one of these before? Any familiarity? > > Regards, > John > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send > an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: PCTEL Timing Antenna with integrated GPS Receiver?
I did mean this unit in particular, specifically I’m really interesting in turning up the pinout for that connector. I have at least been able to find a mating end for it. My past hour of furious googling has turned up surprisingly little about this model. I am very interested in how it performs. John > On May 8, 2021, at 9:31 PM, Hal Murray wrote: > >> Has anyone ever used one of these before? Any familiarity? > > That depends on what you mean by "one of these". Do you mean the particular > model or the general idea of moving the receiver up next to the antenna which > trades coax running at 1.4 GHz to twisted pairs running at 10-50 kilobits/sec > which are much easier to make work at typical distances. > > I have no knowledge of that particular unit. > > HP made/rebranded a similar design. > > My first GPS unit was that sort of design. That was roughly 20 years ago. > It > was a re-purposed marine unit. > > -- > These are my opinions. I hate spam. > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an > email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Re: PCTEL Timing Antenna with integrated GPS Receiver?
> Has anyone ever used one of these before? Any familiarity? That depends on what you mean by "one of these". Do you mean the particular model or the general idea of moving the receiver up next to the antenna which trades coax running at 1.4 GHz to twisted pairs running at 10-50 kilobits/sec which are much easier to make work at typical distances. I have no knowledge of that particular unit. HP made/rebranded a similar design. My first GPS unit was that sort of design. That was roughly 20 years ago. It was a re-purposed marine unit. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-le...@lists.febo.com To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
