Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[paul swed]

John
Yes I did go through the code looking for the touch screen. Like you I
wanted to know how it was used. What magical stuff might it allow. Well
none. :-)
It does take at least 2 good decodes to display time as I recall.
Regards
Paul.

On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 3:06 AM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:

> Hello Time Nuts/Paul,
>
> Yes - I know you have said that - the point was/is I wasn't sure there was
> something in the code or not that could be calling some of the
> touch screen functions - if you said you scrubbed that and I didn't
> understand - thanks for doing that.
>
> I was wondering - using the Stormwise antenna in inductive coupling mode -
> I got at least one good decode cycle - but the TFT/Teensy
> evidently froze - I wasn't getting the serial port dump - the Teensy
> appeared to be locked up - no LED blinks, etc:
>
>
> https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/2308903/99171441-ee159b80-26bd-11eb-8b1f-062ce90a1265.jpg
>
> Good news is that evidently at least one good decode cycle took place (CH
> code) or maybe it was in the process of completing one good decode cycle.
>
> 73's,
> John
> AJ6BC
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 13, 2020 at 10:40 AM paul swed  wrote:
>
> > John I mentioned in an earlier post the touchscreen is not used and there
> > is nothing in the code that I see. I have no wires connected. Display is
> > stable.
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 13, 2020 at 11:09 AM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
> > j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Time Nuts,
> > >
> > > Paul, the wiring harness I made is longer than 6" - not by much - but
> > I'll
> > > shorten those and see if it clears it up.
> > > I thought the same thing - maybe the display could be flaky - or maybe
> > > strange things can happen too if in
> > > the software the touch screen part is enabled but the wiring isn't
> there
> > -
> > > not sure.  But, can't rule that out right
> > > now - will double check to see if in the code the touchscreen part is
> > > running or not.
> > >
> > > I'm also checking the CHIP_MIC_CTRL register in my code - I wanted to
> see
> > > if disabling the micbias block could work -
> > > the register can be written/changed - in the control_sgtl5000.cpp file
> -
> > in
> > > the micGain() function -
> > > change:
> > >
> > > return write(CHIP_MIC_CTRL, 0x0170 | preamp_gain)
> > > to
> > > // return write(CHIP_MIC_CTRL, 0x0070 | preamp_gain)
> > >// attempt to disable mic bias block --- aj6bc/jcw
> > > or
> > > return write(CHIP_MIC_CTRL, 0x | preamp_gain)
> > >
> > > If you want to read that back - then:
> > > in control_sgtl5000.h - move:
> > >  unsigned int read(unsigned int reg); // removed from protected:
> > >
> > > from protected to public:
> > >
> > > and in your code you can call something like:
> > > // check value of mic control register:
> > >   mic_ctl_regval = sgtl5000_1.read(CHIP_MIC_CTRL);
> > >   Serial.printf("\r\nMic Control Register (ADDR 0x002A) = 0x%x \r\n",
> > > mic_ctl_regval);
> > >
> > > you may need to:
> > > #define CHIP_MIC_CTRL  0x002A // microphone gain & internal
> > microphone
> > > bias
> > > at the top of your file.
> > >
> > > I'm still not sure if that's OK to do - I think the chip is looking
> for a
> > > feedback on that possibly and it doesn't really buy you much.
> > > I'm still testing all of that now - maybe just being able to read that
> > > register back is worth something.
> > >
> > > I received the antenna from Stormwise and am using in an inductive
> > coupling
> > > mode with the Teensy set up - and I got the first
> > > successful decode using the code from Chris Howard - so good job there
> > > Chris.  Gotta admit it's pretty cool watching the inductive
> > > coupling effect work.
> > >
> > > It's apparent I still have some noise - I haven't done a lot yet for
> > > shielding anything, so I obviously need to do that - good news
> > > obviously is finally seeing some good decodes coming in.
> > >
> > > Of course, this is in the quiet wee-hours but WWVB is pretty strong at
> > this
> > > time at my QTH.
> > >
> > > I'll work on ways to reduce noise next.
> > >
> > > 73's,
> > > John
> > > AJ6BC
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 12:21 PM paul swed 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I kind of wonder if you don't have a flakey display. I did not add
> the
> > > > terminating R and everything has always worked fine on the display.
> > > After I
> > > > quit using the 3" jumper cables to the audio card and stacked the
> > > modules,
> > > > the audio worked correctly.
> > > > My display is on a set of 6" jumpers and has been stable from day
> one.
> > > > Though currently the display isn't connected since I am experimenting
> > > with
> > > > various modules in the teensy.
> > > > Regards
> > > > Paul
> > > > WB8TSL
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 10:47 AM Graham / KE9H <
> ke9h.gra...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > John:
> > > > > I suggest you try Chris Howard's
> > > 

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[John C. Westmoreland, P.E.]

Hello Time Nuts/Paul,

Yes - I know you have said that - the point was/is I wasn't sure there was
something in the code or not that could be calling some of the
touch screen functions - if you said you scrubbed that and I didn't
understand - thanks for doing that.

I was wondering - using the Stormwise antenna in inductive coupling mode -
I got at least one good decode cycle - but the TFT/Teensy
evidently froze - I wasn't getting the serial port dump - the Teensy
appeared to be locked up - no LED blinks, etc:

https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/2308903/99171441-ee159b80-26bd-11eb-8b1f-062ce90a1265.jpg

Good news is that evidently at least one good decode cycle took place (CH
code) or maybe it was in the process of completing one good decode cycle.

73's,
John
AJ6BC


On Fri, Nov 13, 2020 at 10:40 AM paul swed  wrote:

> John I mentioned in an earlier post the touchscreen is not used and there
> is nothing in the code that I see. I have no wires connected. Display is
> stable.
>
> On Fri, Nov 13, 2020 at 11:09 AM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
> j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello Time Nuts,
> >
> > Paul, the wiring harness I made is longer than 6" - not by much - but
> I'll
> > shorten those and see if it clears it up.
> > I thought the same thing - maybe the display could be flaky - or maybe
> > strange things can happen too if in
> > the software the touch screen part is enabled but the wiring isn't there
> -
> > not sure.  But, can't rule that out right
> > now - will double check to see if in the code the touchscreen part is
> > running or not.
> >
> > I'm also checking the CHIP_MIC_CTRL register in my code - I wanted to see
> > if disabling the micbias block could work -
> > the register can be written/changed - in the control_sgtl5000.cpp file -
> in
> > the micGain() function -
> > change:
> >
> > return write(CHIP_MIC_CTRL, 0x0170 | preamp_gain)
> > to
> > // return write(CHIP_MIC_CTRL, 0x0070 | preamp_gain)
> >// attempt to disable mic bias block --- aj6bc/jcw
> > or
> > return write(CHIP_MIC_CTRL, 0x | preamp_gain)
> >
> > If you want to read that back - then:
> > in control_sgtl5000.h - move:
> >  unsigned int read(unsigned int reg); // removed from protected:
> >
> > from protected to public:
> >
> > and in your code you can call something like:
> > // check value of mic control register:
> >   mic_ctl_regval = sgtl5000_1.read(CHIP_MIC_CTRL);
> >   Serial.printf("\r\nMic Control Register (ADDR 0x002A) = 0x%x \r\n",
> > mic_ctl_regval);
> >
> > you may need to:
> > #define CHIP_MIC_CTRL  0x002A // microphone gain & internal
> microphone
> > bias
> > at the top of your file.
> >
> > I'm still not sure if that's OK to do - I think the chip is looking for a
> > feedback on that possibly and it doesn't really buy you much.
> > I'm still testing all of that now - maybe just being able to read that
> > register back is worth something.
> >
> > I received the antenna from Stormwise and am using in an inductive
> coupling
> > mode with the Teensy set up - and I got the first
> > successful decode using the code from Chris Howard - so good job there
> > Chris.  Gotta admit it's pretty cool watching the inductive
> > coupling effect work.
> >
> > It's apparent I still have some noise - I haven't done a lot yet for
> > shielding anything, so I obviously need to do that - good news
> > obviously is finally seeing some good decodes coming in.
> >
> > Of course, this is in the quiet wee-hours but WWVB is pretty strong at
> this
> > time at my QTH.
> >
> > I'll work on ways to reduce noise next.
> >
> > 73's,
> > John
> > AJ6BC
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 12:21 PM paul swed  wrote:
> >
> > > I kind of wonder if you don't have a flakey display. I did not add the
> > > terminating R and everything has always worked fine on the display.
> > After I
> > > quit using the 3" jumper cables to the audio card and stacked the
> > modules,
> > > the audio worked correctly.
> > > My display is on a set of 6" jumpers and has been stable from day one.
> > > Though currently the display isn't connected since I am experimenting
> > with
> > > various modules in the teensy.
> > > Regards
> > > Paul
> > > WB8TSL
> > >
> > > On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 10:47 AM Graham / KE9H 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > John:
> > > > I suggest you try Chris Howard's
> > > > https://github.com/chris-elfpen/Teensy4WWVBsdr
> > > > You might have to adjust the I/O pins for Teensy 4.1 vs 4.0
> > > > I am having no problems with the display once I put in the source
> > > > termination resistor.
> > > > Been running for multiple days, so far.
> > > > --- Graham
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 9:45 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
> > > > j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello Time Nuts,
> > > > >
> > > > > I've been running some tests - I just had the screen 'white-out'
> > > problem
> > > > > happen again - I have a termination resistor on the SCK 

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[paul swed]

John I mentioned in an earlier post the touchscreen is not used and there
is nothing in the code that I see. I have no wires connected. Display is
stable.

On Fri, Nov 13, 2020 at 11:09 AM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:

> Hello Time Nuts,
>
> Paul, the wiring harness I made is longer than 6" - not by much - but I'll
> shorten those and see if it clears it up.
> I thought the same thing - maybe the display could be flaky - or maybe
> strange things can happen too if in
> the software the touch screen part is enabled but the wiring isn't there -
> not sure.  But, can't rule that out right
> now - will double check to see if in the code the touchscreen part is
> running or not.
>
> I'm also checking the CHIP_MIC_CTRL register in my code - I wanted to see
> if disabling the micbias block could work -
> the register can be written/changed - in the control_sgtl5000.cpp file - in
> the micGain() function -
> change:
>
> return write(CHIP_MIC_CTRL, 0x0170 | preamp_gain)
> to
> // return write(CHIP_MIC_CTRL, 0x0070 | preamp_gain)
>// attempt to disable mic bias block --- aj6bc/jcw
> or
> return write(CHIP_MIC_CTRL, 0x | preamp_gain)
>
> If you want to read that back - then:
> in control_sgtl5000.h - move:
>  unsigned int read(unsigned int reg); // removed from protected:
>
> from protected to public:
>
> and in your code you can call something like:
> // check value of mic control register:
>   mic_ctl_regval = sgtl5000_1.read(CHIP_MIC_CTRL);
>   Serial.printf("\r\nMic Control Register (ADDR 0x002A) = 0x%x \r\n",
> mic_ctl_regval);
>
> you may need to:
> #define CHIP_MIC_CTRL  0x002A // microphone gain & internal microphone
> bias
> at the top of your file.
>
> I'm still not sure if that's OK to do - I think the chip is looking for a
> feedback on that possibly and it doesn't really buy you much.
> I'm still testing all of that now - maybe just being able to read that
> register back is worth something.
>
> I received the antenna from Stormwise and am using in an inductive coupling
> mode with the Teensy set up - and I got the first
> successful decode using the code from Chris Howard - so good job there
> Chris.  Gotta admit it's pretty cool watching the inductive
> coupling effect work.
>
> It's apparent I still have some noise - I haven't done a lot yet for
> shielding anything, so I obviously need to do that - good news
> obviously is finally seeing some good decodes coming in.
>
> Of course, this is in the quiet wee-hours but WWVB is pretty strong at this
> time at my QTH.
>
> I'll work on ways to reduce noise next.
>
> 73's,
> John
> AJ6BC
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 12:21 PM paul swed  wrote:
>
> > I kind of wonder if you don't have a flakey display. I did not add the
> > terminating R and everything has always worked fine on the display.
> After I
> > quit using the 3" jumper cables to the audio card and stacked the
> modules,
> > the audio worked correctly.
> > My display is on a set of 6" jumpers and has been stable from day one.
> > Though currently the display isn't connected since I am experimenting
> with
> > various modules in the teensy.
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 10:47 AM Graham / KE9H 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > John:
> > > I suggest you try Chris Howard's
> > > https://github.com/chris-elfpen/Teensy4WWVBsdr
> > > You might have to adjust the I/O pins for Teensy 4.1 vs 4.0
> > > I am having no problems with the display once I put in the source
> > > termination resistor.
> > > Been running for multiple days, so far.
> > > --- Graham
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 9:45 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
> > > j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello Time Nuts,
> > > >
> > > > I've been running some tests - I just had the screen 'white-out'
> > problem
> > > > happen again - I have a termination resistor on the SCK line (pin 13
> on
> > > the
> > > > Teensy 4.1) -
> > > > so it appears this is related to the TFT screen updates - maybe a
> pixel
> > > > write going out of bounds.  The Teensy is still running - but the
> > screen
> > > > can't be read.
> > > >
> > > > Note the current code I'm testing is here in case anyone is
> interested
> > -
> > > > it's from the PJRC forum:
> > > > https://github.com/jwestmoreland/el_supremoWWVBsdr
> > > >
> > > > 73's,
> > > > John
> > > > AJ6BC
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > ___
> > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> > > To unsubscribe, go to
> > > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> > > and follow the instructions there.
> > >
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- 

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[John C. Westmoreland, P.E.]

Hello Time Nuts,

Paul, the wiring harness I made is longer than 6" - not by much - but I'll
shorten those and see if it clears it up.
I thought the same thing - maybe the display could be flaky - or maybe
strange things can happen too if in
the software the touch screen part is enabled but the wiring isn't there -
not sure.  But, can't rule that out right
now - will double check to see if in the code the touchscreen part is
running or not.

I'm also checking the CHIP_MIC_CTRL register in my code - I wanted to see
if disabling the micbias block could work -
the register can be written/changed - in the control_sgtl5000.cpp file - in
the micGain() function -
change:

return write(CHIP_MIC_CTRL, 0x0170 | preamp_gain)
to
// return write(CHIP_MIC_CTRL, 0x0070 | preamp_gain)
   // attempt to disable mic bias block --- aj6bc/jcw
or
return write(CHIP_MIC_CTRL, 0x | preamp_gain)

If you want to read that back - then:
in control_sgtl5000.h - move:
 unsigned int read(unsigned int reg); // removed from protected:

from protected to public:

and in your code you can call something like:
// check value of mic control register:
  mic_ctl_regval = sgtl5000_1.read(CHIP_MIC_CTRL);
  Serial.printf("\r\nMic Control Register (ADDR 0x002A) = 0x%x \r\n",
mic_ctl_regval);

you may need to:
#define CHIP_MIC_CTRL  0x002A // microphone gain & internal microphone
bias
at the top of your file.

I'm still not sure if that's OK to do - I think the chip is looking for a
feedback on that possibly and it doesn't really buy you much.
I'm still testing all of that now - maybe just being able to read that
register back is worth something.

I received the antenna from Stormwise and am using in an inductive coupling
mode with the Teensy set up - and I got the first
successful decode using the code from Chris Howard - so good job there
Chris.  Gotta admit it's pretty cool watching the inductive
coupling effect work.

It's apparent I still have some noise - I haven't done a lot yet for
shielding anything, so I obviously need to do that - good news
obviously is finally seeing some good decodes coming in.

Of course, this is in the quiet wee-hours but WWVB is pretty strong at this
time at my QTH.

I'll work on ways to reduce noise next.

73's,
John
AJ6BC






On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 12:21 PM paul swed  wrote:

> I kind of wonder if you don't have a flakey display. I did not add the
> terminating R and everything has always worked fine on the display. After I
> quit using the 3" jumper cables to the audio card and stacked the modules,
> the audio worked correctly.
> My display is on a set of 6" jumpers and has been stable from day one.
> Though currently the display isn't connected since I am experimenting with
> various modules in the teensy.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
> On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 10:47 AM Graham / KE9H 
> wrote:
>
> > John:
> > I suggest you try Chris Howard's
> > https://github.com/chris-elfpen/Teensy4WWVBsdr
> > You might have to adjust the I/O pins for Teensy 4.1 vs 4.0
> > I am having no problems with the display once I put in the source
> > termination resistor.
> > Been running for multiple days, so far.
> > --- Graham
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 9:45 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
> > j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Time Nuts,
> > >
> > > I've been running some tests - I just had the screen 'white-out'
> problem
> > > happen again - I have a termination resistor on the SCK line (pin 13 on
> > the
> > > Teensy 4.1) -
> > > so it appears this is related to the TFT screen updates - maybe a pixel
> > > write going out of bounds.  The Teensy is still running - but the
> screen
> > > can't be read.
> > >
> > > Note the current code I'm testing is here in case anyone is interested
> -
> > > it's from the PJRC forum:
> > > https://github.com/jwestmoreland/el_supremoWWVBsdr
> > >
> > > 73's,
> > > John
> > > AJ6BC
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> and follow the instructions there.
>
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To unsubscribe, go to 
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and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[paul swed]

I kind of wonder if you don't have a flakey display. I did not add the
terminating R and everything has always worked fine on the display. After I
quit using the 3" jumper cables to the audio card and stacked the modules,
the audio worked correctly.
My display is on a set of 6" jumpers and has been stable from day one.
Though currently the display isn't connected since I am experimenting with
various modules in the teensy.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Wed, Nov 11, 2020 at 10:47 AM Graham / KE9H 
wrote:

> John:
> I suggest you try Chris Howard's
> https://github.com/chris-elfpen/Teensy4WWVBsdr
> You might have to adjust the I/O pins for Teensy 4.1 vs 4.0
> I am having no problems with the display once I put in the source
> termination resistor.
> Been running for multiple days, so far.
> --- Graham
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 9:45 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
> j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello Time Nuts,
> >
> > I've been running some tests - I just had the screen 'white-out' problem
> > happen again - I have a termination resistor on the SCK line (pin 13 on
> the
> > Teensy 4.1) -
> > so it appears this is related to the TFT screen updates - maybe a pixel
> > write going out of bounds.  The Teensy is still running - but the screen
> > can't be read.
> >
> > Note the current code I'm testing is here in case anyone is interested -
> > it's from the PJRC forum:
> > https://github.com/jwestmoreland/el_supremoWWVBsdr
> >
> > 73's,
> > John
> > AJ6BC
> >
> >
> >
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> and follow the instructions there.
>
___
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To unsubscribe, go to 
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and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[Graham / KE9H]

John:
I suggest you try Chris Howard's
https://github.com/chris-elfpen/Teensy4WWVBsdr
You might have to adjust the I/O pins for Teensy 4.1 vs 4.0
I am having no problems with the display once I put in the source
termination resistor.
Been running for multiple days, so far.
--- Graham



On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 9:45 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:

> Hello Time Nuts,
>
> I've been running some tests - I just had the screen 'white-out' problem
> happen again - I have a termination resistor on the SCK line (pin 13 on the
> Teensy 4.1) -
> so it appears this is related to the TFT screen updates - maybe a pixel
> write going out of bounds.  The Teensy is still running - but the screen
> can't be read.
>
> Note the current code I'm testing is here in case anyone is interested -
> it's from the PJRC forum:
> https://github.com/jwestmoreland/el_supremoWWVBsdr
>
> 73's,
> John
> AJ6BC
>
>
>
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to 
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[John C. Westmoreland, P.E.]

Hello Time Nuts,

I've been running some tests - I just had the screen 'white-out' problem
happen again - I have a termination resistor on the SCK line (pin 13 on the
Teensy 4.1) -
so it appears this is related to the TFT screen updates - maybe a pixel
write going out of bounds.  The Teensy is still running - but the screen
can't be read.

Note the current code I'm testing is here in case anyone is interested -
it's from the PJRC forum:
https://github.com/jwestmoreland/el_supremoWWVBsdr

73's,
John
AJ6BC


On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 10:43 AM paul swed  wrote:

> Graham that is the alternate approach. The new suggested KD2BD vcTCXO works
> very well. Its 10 MHz and readily available. But then the old divider
> chains are needed. The KD2BD method works well if you have plenty of
> solder.
> First mixer is 50 KHz LO. Result 10 KHz IF.
> 10 KHz IF gain
> Second Mixer is a 10 KHz LO results in a 0 Hz IF.
> But the products are actually phase offset and bit.
> The above comments are seriously over simplified.
> Having built the KD2BD receiver I am interested in a low solder solution.
> :-)
> Really have to do far more experimentation. The teensy is very powerful.
> Regards
> Paul
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 12:56 PM Graham / KE9H 
> wrote:
>
> > Paul:
> >
> > It might be easier to relegate that function to hardware.
> > A simple TC-VCO that drives the sampling clock for the ADC and is
> steerable
> > for frequency/phase lock from the CPU would allow you to build a
> > synchronous receiver without working about locking the CPU clocking
> system
> > to anything.
> >
> > --- Graham
> >
> > ==
> >
> > --- Graham
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 8:06 PM paul swed  wrote:
> >
> > > No time to experiment the last few days as the weather has been great
> and
> > > have to get outside stuff done. That said trying to tease apart how to
> > > create a lockable NCO in the teensy.
> > > Its not clear to me that I can create a sine wave oscillator and drive
> > that
> > > out to a pin to see stability and adjustment effects. It can be done by
> > > mixing with another internal signal and measuring the output. But my
> > > preference would be direct measurement.
> > > With respect to sine and cosine. It seems a second oscillator and a
> third
> > > oscillator that is 90 degrees out can be created. Supposedly these
> would
> > be
> > > locked. (To be proven)
> > > Regards
> > > Paul
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 7:59 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
> > > j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello Graham and Fellow Time Nuts,
> > > >
> > > > I did what Paul had mentioned as well - and that appeared to clear up
> > the
> > > > immediate screen issues but I will
> > > > insert a termination resistor as well as Graham has suggested.
> > > >
> > > > I looked on the PJRC forum as well - and it appears there has been a
> > lot
> > > of
> > > > discussion and development regarding
> > > > the enhancement of the performance of these TFT displays - also -
> > > there's a
> > > > beta version of the arduino libraries -
> > > > Teensyduino 1.54 Beta #4 -
> > > > https://forum.pjrc.com/threads/64303-Teensyduino-1-54-Beta-4 - take
> a
> > > look
> > > > at that
> > > > for those that are experimenting with this platform.
> > > >
> > > > As far as my current setup - in the wee hours today - the WWVB signal
> > was
> > > > coming in very strong - my HPSDR rig
> > > > using the Clock tool from Multipsk was decoding every minute - the
> > Clock
> > > > programs' PLL was solidly locked.
> > > >
> > > > I noticed for the Teensy4WWVBsdr code it appeared to be in sync with
> > > WWVB -
> > > > it was decoding either a minute or
> > > > the hour apparently correctly - but it was shifted - meaning say for:
> > > >
> > > > 2:38:00 AM it decoded 2 as the minute - which was incorrect but
> correct
> > > for
> > > > another time position
> > > >
> > > > or, for the hour it would say 8 as hour.  This makes me think
> obviously
> > > for
> > > > some reason the positions are being
> > > > shifted in an otherwise somewhat successful decode attempt.
> > > >
> > > > I am using the Teensy 4.1 - I need to check all of the libs to make
> > sure
> > > > nothing incompatible is possibly taking place.
> > > >
> > > > I've been informed also the antenna from Stormwise is on the way.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks again Graham - KE9H - for helping out on this.
> > > >
> > > > 73's,
> > > > John
> > > > AJ6BC
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 8:02 AM Graham / KE9H 
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > John W:
> > > > >
> > > > > Regarding your Teensy WWVB receiver display issues.
> > > > > The Teensy does not have a source termination resistor on the SPI
> > > clock.
> > > > > Add a 50 Ohm resistor (value not critical, anything from 33 to 75
> > will
> > > > > work) in series with the SPI Clock signal, as physically close to
> the
> > > > > Teensy as practical.
> > > > > This totally cleared up all of my display issues.
> > > > >
> > 

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[paul swed]

Graham that is the alternate approach. The new suggested KD2BD vcTCXO works
very well. Its 10 MHz and readily available. But then the old divider
chains are needed. The KD2BD method works well if you have plenty of solder.
First mixer is 50 KHz LO. Result 10 KHz IF.
10 KHz IF gain
Second Mixer is a 10 KHz LO results in a 0 Hz IF.
But the products are actually phase offset and bit.
The above comments are seriously over simplified.
Having built the KD2BD receiver I am interested in a low solder solution.
:-)
Really have to do far more experimentation. The teensy is very powerful.
Regards
Paul


On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 12:56 PM Graham / KE9H 
wrote:

> Paul:
>
> It might be easier to relegate that function to hardware.
> A simple TC-VCO that drives the sampling clock for the ADC and is steerable
> for frequency/phase lock from the CPU would allow you to build a
> synchronous receiver without working about locking the CPU clocking system
> to anything.
>
> --- Graham
>
> ==
>
> --- Graham
>
> On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 8:06 PM paul swed  wrote:
>
> > No time to experiment the last few days as the weather has been great and
> > have to get outside stuff done. That said trying to tease apart how to
> > create a lockable NCO in the teensy.
> > Its not clear to me that I can create a sine wave oscillator and drive
> that
> > out to a pin to see stability and adjustment effects. It can be done by
> > mixing with another internal signal and measuring the output. But my
> > preference would be direct measurement.
> > With respect to sine and cosine. It seems a second oscillator and a third
> > oscillator that is 90 degrees out can be created. Supposedly these would
> be
> > locked. (To be proven)
> > Regards
> > Paul
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 7:59 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
> > j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Graham and Fellow Time Nuts,
> > >
> > > I did what Paul had mentioned as well - and that appeared to clear up
> the
> > > immediate screen issues but I will
> > > insert a termination resistor as well as Graham has suggested.
> > >
> > > I looked on the PJRC forum as well - and it appears there has been a
> lot
> > of
> > > discussion and development regarding
> > > the enhancement of the performance of these TFT displays - also -
> > there's a
> > > beta version of the arduino libraries -
> > > Teensyduino 1.54 Beta #4 -
> > > https://forum.pjrc.com/threads/64303-Teensyduino-1-54-Beta-4 - take a
> > look
> > > at that
> > > for those that are experimenting with this platform.
> > >
> > > As far as my current setup - in the wee hours today - the WWVB signal
> was
> > > coming in very strong - my HPSDR rig
> > > using the Clock tool from Multipsk was decoding every minute - the
> Clock
> > > programs' PLL was solidly locked.
> > >
> > > I noticed for the Teensy4WWVBsdr code it appeared to be in sync with
> > WWVB -
> > > it was decoding either a minute or
> > > the hour apparently correctly - but it was shifted - meaning say for:
> > >
> > > 2:38:00 AM it decoded 2 as the minute - which was incorrect but correct
> > for
> > > another time position
> > >
> > > or, for the hour it would say 8 as hour.  This makes me think obviously
> > for
> > > some reason the positions are being
> > > shifted in an otherwise somewhat successful decode attempt.
> > >
> > > I am using the Teensy 4.1 - I need to check all of the libs to make
> sure
> > > nothing incompatible is possibly taking place.
> > >
> > > I've been informed also the antenna from Stormwise is on the way.
> > >
> > > Thanks again Graham - KE9H - for helping out on this.
> > >
> > > 73's,
> > > John
> > > AJ6BC
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 8:02 AM Graham / KE9H 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > John W:
> > > >
> > > > Regarding your Teensy WWVB receiver display issues.
> > > > The Teensy does not have a source termination resistor on the SPI
> > clock.
> > > > Add a 50 Ohm resistor (value not critical, anything from 33 to 75
> will
> > > > work) in series with the SPI Clock signal, as physically close to the
> > > > Teensy as practical.
> > > > This totally cleared up all of my display issues.
> > > >
> https://www.analog.com/media/cn/training-seminars/tutorials/MT-097.pdf
> > > > Source termination resistors provide a source resistance to absorb
> the
> > > > reflection of fast edges off the slave device input, reducing all the
> > > > bouncing and wiggles on the rising and falling edges of signals,
> > > > particularly important/beneficial on clock signals.
> > > >
> > > > --- Graham
> > > >
> > > > ==
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 10:55 AM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
> > > > j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Paul/Chris,
> > > > >
> > > > > Also - in addition to the white screen, I get this sometimes after
> > > > running
> > > > > for a while - have you guys seen this?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> 

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[Graham / KE9H]

Paul:

It might be easier to relegate that function to hardware.
A simple TC-VCO that drives the sampling clock for the ADC and is steerable
for frequency/phase lock from the CPU would allow you to build a
synchronous receiver without working about locking the CPU clocking system
to anything.

--- Graham

==

--- Graham

On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 8:06 PM paul swed  wrote:

> No time to experiment the last few days as the weather has been great and
> have to get outside stuff done. That said trying to tease apart how to
> create a lockable NCO in the teensy.
> Its not clear to me that I can create a sine wave oscillator and drive that
> out to a pin to see stability and adjustment effects. It can be done by
> mixing with another internal signal and measuring the output. But my
> preference would be direct measurement.
> With respect to sine and cosine. It seems a second oscillator and a third
> oscillator that is 90 degrees out can be created. Supposedly these would be
> locked. (To be proven)
> Regards
> Paul
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 7:59 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
> j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello Graham and Fellow Time Nuts,
> >
> > I did what Paul had mentioned as well - and that appeared to clear up the
> > immediate screen issues but I will
> > insert a termination resistor as well as Graham has suggested.
> >
> > I looked on the PJRC forum as well - and it appears there has been a lot
> of
> > discussion and development regarding
> > the enhancement of the performance of these TFT displays - also -
> there's a
> > beta version of the arduino libraries -
> > Teensyduino 1.54 Beta #4 -
> > https://forum.pjrc.com/threads/64303-Teensyduino-1-54-Beta-4 - take a
> look
> > at that
> > for those that are experimenting with this platform.
> >
> > As far as my current setup - in the wee hours today - the WWVB signal was
> > coming in very strong - my HPSDR rig
> > using the Clock tool from Multipsk was decoding every minute - the Clock
> > programs' PLL was solidly locked.
> >
> > I noticed for the Teensy4WWVBsdr code it appeared to be in sync with
> WWVB -
> > it was decoding either a minute or
> > the hour apparently correctly - but it was shifted - meaning say for:
> >
> > 2:38:00 AM it decoded 2 as the minute - which was incorrect but correct
> for
> > another time position
> >
> > or, for the hour it would say 8 as hour.  This makes me think obviously
> for
> > some reason the positions are being
> > shifted in an otherwise somewhat successful decode attempt.
> >
> > I am using the Teensy 4.1 - I need to check all of the libs to make sure
> > nothing incompatible is possibly taking place.
> >
> > I've been informed also the antenna from Stormwise is on the way.
> >
> > Thanks again Graham - KE9H - for helping out on this.
> >
> > 73's,
> > John
> > AJ6BC
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 8:02 AM Graham / KE9H 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > John W:
> > >
> > > Regarding your Teensy WWVB receiver display issues.
> > > The Teensy does not have a source termination resistor on the SPI
> clock.
> > > Add a 50 Ohm resistor (value not critical, anything from 33 to 75 will
> > > work) in series with the SPI Clock signal, as physically close to the
> > > Teensy as practical.
> > > This totally cleared up all of my display issues.
> > > https://www.analog.com/media/cn/training-seminars/tutorials/MT-097.pdf
> > > Source termination resistors provide a source resistance to absorb the
> > > reflection of fast edges off the slave device input, reducing all the
> > > bouncing and wiggles on the rising and falling edges of signals,
> > > particularly important/beneficial on clock signals.
> > >
> > > --- Graham
> > >
> > > ==
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 10:55 AM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
> > > j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Paul/Chris,
> > > >
> > > > Also - in addition to the white screen, I get this sometimes after
> > > running
> > > > for a while - have you guys seen this?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/2308903/98118247-cd4c7b00-1e5f-11eb-8510-aa1ed0beba52.jpg
> > > >
> > > > 73's,
> > > > John
> > > > AJ6BC
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe, go to
> > > > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> > > > and follow the instructions there.
> > > >
> > > ___
> > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> > > To unsubscribe, go to
> > > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> > > and follow the instructions there.
> > >
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> 

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[paul swed]

No time to experiment the last few days as the weather has been great and
have to get outside stuff done. That said trying to tease apart how to
create a lockable NCO in the teensy.
Its not clear to me that I can create a sine wave oscillator and drive that
out to a pin to see stability and adjustment effects. It can be done by
mixing with another internal signal and measuring the output. But my
preference would be direct measurement.
With respect to sine and cosine. It seems a second oscillator and a third
oscillator that is 90 degrees out can be created. Supposedly these would be
locked. (To be proven)
Regards
Paul


On Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 7:59 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:

> Hello Graham and Fellow Time Nuts,
>
> I did what Paul had mentioned as well - and that appeared to clear up the
> immediate screen issues but I will
> insert a termination resistor as well as Graham has suggested.
>
> I looked on the PJRC forum as well - and it appears there has been a lot of
> discussion and development regarding
> the enhancement of the performance of these TFT displays - also - there's a
> beta version of the arduino libraries -
> Teensyduino 1.54 Beta #4 -
> https://forum.pjrc.com/threads/64303-Teensyduino-1-54-Beta-4 - take a look
> at that
> for those that are experimenting with this platform.
>
> As far as my current setup - in the wee hours today - the WWVB signal was
> coming in very strong - my HPSDR rig
> using the Clock tool from Multipsk was decoding every minute - the Clock
> programs' PLL was solidly locked.
>
> I noticed for the Teensy4WWVBsdr code it appeared to be in sync with WWVB -
> it was decoding either a minute or
> the hour apparently correctly - but it was shifted - meaning say for:
>
> 2:38:00 AM it decoded 2 as the minute - which was incorrect but correct for
> another time position
>
> or, for the hour it would say 8 as hour.  This makes me think obviously for
> some reason the positions are being
> shifted in an otherwise somewhat successful decode attempt.
>
> I am using the Teensy 4.1 - I need to check all of the libs to make sure
> nothing incompatible is possibly taking place.
>
> I've been informed also the antenna from Stormwise is on the way.
>
> Thanks again Graham - KE9H - for helping out on this.
>
> 73's,
> John
> AJ6BC
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 8:02 AM Graham / KE9H 
> wrote:
>
> > John W:
> >
> > Regarding your Teensy WWVB receiver display issues.
> > The Teensy does not have a source termination resistor on the SPI clock.
> > Add a 50 Ohm resistor (value not critical, anything from 33 to 75 will
> > work) in series with the SPI Clock signal, as physically close to the
> > Teensy as practical.
> > This totally cleared up all of my display issues.
> > https://www.analog.com/media/cn/training-seminars/tutorials/MT-097.pdf
> > Source termination resistors provide a source resistance to absorb the
> > reflection of fast edges off the slave device input, reducing all the
> > bouncing and wiggles on the rising and falling edges of signals,
> > particularly important/beneficial on clock signals.
> >
> > --- Graham
> >
> > ==
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 10:55 AM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
> > j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Paul/Chris,
> > >
> > > Also - in addition to the white screen, I get this sometimes after
> > running
> > > for a while - have you guys seen this?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/2308903/98118247-cd4c7b00-1e5f-11eb-8510-aa1ed0beba52.jpg
> > >
> > > 73's,
> > > John
> > > AJ6BC
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe, go to
> > > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> > > and follow the instructions there.
> > >
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> and follow the instructions there.
>
___
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To unsubscribe, go to 
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and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[John C. Westmoreland, P.E.]

Hello Graham and Fellow Time Nuts,

I did what Paul had mentioned as well - and that appeared to clear up the
immediate screen issues but I will
insert a termination resistor as well as Graham has suggested.

I looked on the PJRC forum as well - and it appears there has been a lot of
discussion and development regarding
the enhancement of the performance of these TFT displays - also - there's a
beta version of the arduino libraries -
Teensyduino 1.54 Beta #4 -
https://forum.pjrc.com/threads/64303-Teensyduino-1-54-Beta-4 - take a look
at that
for those that are experimenting with this platform.

As far as my current setup - in the wee hours today - the WWVB signal was
coming in very strong - my HPSDR rig
using the Clock tool from Multipsk was decoding every minute - the Clock
programs' PLL was solidly locked.

I noticed for the Teensy4WWVBsdr code it appeared to be in sync with WWVB -
it was decoding either a minute or
the hour apparently correctly - but it was shifted - meaning say for:

2:38:00 AM it decoded 2 as the minute - which was incorrect but correct for
another time position

or, for the hour it would say 8 as hour.  This makes me think obviously for
some reason the positions are being
shifted in an otherwise somewhat successful decode attempt.

I am using the Teensy 4.1 - I need to check all of the libs to make sure
nothing incompatible is possibly taking place.

I've been informed also the antenna from Stormwise is on the way.

Thanks again Graham - KE9H - for helping out on this.

73's,
John
AJ6BC


On Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 8:02 AM Graham / KE9H  wrote:

> John W:
>
> Regarding your Teensy WWVB receiver display issues.
> The Teensy does not have a source termination resistor on the SPI clock.
> Add a 50 Ohm resistor (value not critical, anything from 33 to 75 will
> work) in series with the SPI Clock signal, as physically close to the
> Teensy as practical.
> This totally cleared up all of my display issues.
> https://www.analog.com/media/cn/training-seminars/tutorials/MT-097.pdf
> Source termination resistors provide a source resistance to absorb the
> reflection of fast edges off the slave device input, reducing all the
> bouncing and wiggles on the rising and falling edges of signals,
> particularly important/beneficial on clock signals.
>
> --- Graham
>
> ==
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 10:55 AM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
> j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
>
> > Paul/Chris,
> >
> > Also - in addition to the white screen, I get this sometimes after
> running
> > for a while - have you guys seen this?
> >
> >
> >
> https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/2308903/98118247-cd4c7b00-1e5f-11eb-8510-aa1ed0beba52.jpg
> >
> > 73's,
> > John
> > AJ6BC
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> and follow the instructions there.
>
___
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To unsubscribe, go to 
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[Graham / KE9H]

John W:

Regarding your Teensy WWVB receiver display issues.
The Teensy does not have a source termination resistor on the SPI clock.
Add a 50 Ohm resistor (value not critical, anything from 33 to 75 will
work) in series with the SPI Clock signal, as physically close to the
Teensy as practical.
This totally cleared up all of my display issues.
https://www.analog.com/media/cn/training-seminars/tutorials/MT-097.pdf
Source termination resistors provide a source resistance to absorb the
reflection of fast edges off the slave device input, reducing all the
bouncing and wiggles on the rising and falling edges of signals,
particularly important/beneficial on clock signals.

--- Graham

==


On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 10:55 AM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:

> Paul/Chris,
>
> Also - in addition to the white screen, I get this sometimes after running
> for a while - have you guys seen this?
>
>
> https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/2308903/98118247-cd4c7b00-1e5f-11eb-8510-aa1ed0beba52.jpg
>
> 73's,
> John
> AJ6BC
>
>
> To unsubscribe, go to
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> and follow the instructions there.
>
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to 
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[paul swed]

; > directly stacked on to the cpu. I originally used 3" leeds those
> > >> little
> > >> >> > jumpers. It makes a mess of the clock signals.
> > >> >> > Regards
> > >> >> > Paul.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 10:55 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
> > >> >> > j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >> Paul,
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> Have you successfully decoded WWVB with Chris's code?
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> I haven't gotten that to work.
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> I'm using the same antenna set up I've used that works with the
> > >> >> multipsk
> > >> >> >> Clock program to decode WWVB that will decode fairly reliably as
> > >> long
> > >> >> as
> > >> >> >> atmospheric conditions are favorable.
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> Note, if using the Arduino IDE and you're connected to a PC; it
> > will
> > >> >> >> sometimes set the clock on the TFT to the PC's clock; I'm
> > mentioning
> > >> >> that
> > >> >> >> since some that try this could think their set up is synced to
> > WWVB
> > >> >> when
> > >> >> >> it
> > >> >> >> actually grabbed time from the PC.  Maybe the loader from Teensy
> > >> does
> > >> >> >> that;
> > >> >> >> I haven't looked close enough yet to know for sure what's
> setting
> > >> that.
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> Glad you're making progress with your approach.
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> 73's,
> > >> >> >> John
> > >> >> >> AJ6BC
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 2, 2020, 18:20 paul swed 
> wrote:
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> > John thats exactly what Chris did. Its the teensywwvb.ino. It
> > >> decodes
> > >> >> >> the
> > >> >> >> > AM timecode just as the DCF code does. In fact Chris's code is
> > >> >> derived
> > >> >> >> from
> > >> >> >> > the DCF code with the changes you are asking about and it
> works.
> > >> >> >> Download
> > >> >> >> > his solution and read the comments throughout. The original
> DCF
> > >> >> comments
> > >> >> >> > are in it also.
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > Its the starting point for the tinkering I am doing towards a
> > BPSK
> > >> >> SDR.
> > >> >> >> > Thats a big leap for me.
> > >> >> >> > What the code gives you is the frontend gain, followed by a
> > >> bandpass
> > >> >> >> > filter. Multiplier that mixes the LO and incoming signal to a
> > >> lowpass
> > >> >> >> > filter. Then on to AM detection and AGC.
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > If you don't care to install the arduino IDE with teensy
> > extension
> > >> >> just
> > >> >> >> use
> > >> >> >> > notepad ++ to look at the code. Pretty exciting.
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > Regards
> > >> >> >> > Paul
> > >> >> >> > WB8TSL
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 8:24 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
> > >> >> >> > j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > > Hello Time Nuts,
> > >> >> >> > >
> > >> >> >> > > I have a question -
> > >> >> >> > >
> > >> >> >> > > Has anyone been successful getting WWVB to decode using the
> > >> example
> > >> >> >> for
> > >> &g

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[John C. Westmoreland, P.E.]

sing the same antenna set up I've used that works with the
> >> >> multipsk
> >> >> >> Clock program to decode WWVB that will decode fairly reliably as
> >> long
> >> >> as
> >> >> >> atmospheric conditions are favorable.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Note, if using the Arduino IDE and you're connected to a PC; it
> will
> >> >> >> sometimes set the clock on the TFT to the PC's clock; I'm
> mentioning
> >> >> that
> >> >> >> since some that try this could think their set up is synced to
> WWVB
> >> >> when
> >> >> >> it
> >> >> >> actually grabbed time from the PC.  Maybe the loader from Teensy
> >> does
> >> >> >> that;
> >> >> >> I haven't looked close enough yet to know for sure what's setting
> >> that.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Glad you're making progress with your approach.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> 73's,
> >> >> >> John
> >> >> >> AJ6BC
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 2, 2020, 18:20 paul swed  wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > John thats exactly what Chris did. Its the teensywwvb.ino. It
> >> decodes
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> > AM timecode just as the DCF code does. In fact Chris's code is
> >> >> derived
> >> >> >> from
> >> >> >> > the DCF code with the changes you are asking about and it works.
> >> >> >> Download
> >> >> >> > his solution and read the comments throughout. The original DCF
> >> >> comments
> >> >> >> > are in it also.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Its the starting point for the tinkering I am doing towards a
> BPSK
> >> >> SDR.
> >> >> >> > Thats a big leap for me.
> >> >> >> > What the code gives you is the frontend gain, followed by a
> >> bandpass
> >> >> >> > filter. Multiplier that mixes the LO and incoming signal to a
> >> lowpass
> >> >> >> > filter. Then on to AM detection and AGC.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > If you don't care to install the arduino IDE with teensy
> extension
> >> >> just
> >> >> >> use
> >> >> >> > notepad ++ to look at the code. Pretty exciting.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Regards
> >> >> >> > Paul
> >> >> >> > WB8TSL
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 8:24 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
> >> >> >> > j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > > Hello Time Nuts,
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > I have a question -
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > Has anyone been successful getting WWVB to decode using the
> >> example
> >> >> >> for
> >> >> >> > > DCF77 and making the changes for WWVB?
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > Chris has his own approach - it's interesting - but on my
> setup
> >> at
> >> >> >> least
> >> >> >> > I
> >> >> >> > > haven't been successful with it - maybe it's my antenna - not
> >> sure
> >> >> >> just
> >> >> >> > > yet.
> >> >> >> > > Also - my screen eventually 'whites-out' after running that
> for
> >> a
> >> >> >> while -
> >> >> >> > > meaning - the screen goes completely white and I don't know
> >> what's
> >> >> >> doing
> >> >> >> > > that yet - I suppose it's a bug of some sort.
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > But, with the DCF77 approach - it appears to identify bits OK
> -
> >> >> with
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> > > code having only minimal changes - so I'd like

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[paul swed]

gt; >> >> > AM timecode just as the DCF code does. In fact Chris's code is
> >> derived
> >> >> from
> >> >> > the DCF code with the changes you are asking about and it works.
> >> >> Download
> >> >> > his solution and read the comments throughout. The original DCF
> >> comments
> >> >> > are in it also.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Its the starting point for the tinkering I am doing towards a BPSK
> >> SDR.
> >> >> > Thats a big leap for me.
> >> >> > What the code gives you is the frontend gain, followed by a
> bandpass
> >> >> > filter. Multiplier that mixes the LO and incoming signal to a
> lowpass
> >> >> > filter. Then on to AM detection and AGC.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > If you don't care to install the arduino IDE with teensy extension
> >> just
> >> >> use
> >> >> > notepad ++ to look at the code. Pretty exciting.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Regards
> >> >> > Paul
> >> >> > WB8TSL
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 8:24 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
> >> >> > j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > Hello Time Nuts,
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > I have a question -
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Has anyone been successful getting WWVB to decode using the
> example
> >> >> for
> >> >> > > DCF77 and making the changes for WWVB?
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Chris has his own approach - it's interesting - but on my setup
> at
> >> >> least
> >> >> > I
> >> >> > > haven't been successful with it - maybe it's my antenna - not
> sure
> >> >> just
> >> >> > > yet.
> >> >> > > Also - my screen eventually 'whites-out' after running that for a
> >> >> while -
> >> >> > > meaning - the screen goes completely white and I don't know
> what's
> >> >> doing
> >> >> > > that yet - I suppose it's a bug of some sort.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > But, with the DCF77 approach - it appears to identify bits OK -
> >> with
> >> >> the
> >> >> > > code having only minimal changes - so I'd like to go down that
> >> path.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Note - I have a fork here - but it's debug - and not sure it's
> >> worth
> >> >> > > anything other than looking at some of the data that's being
> >> dumped.
> >> >> > > https://github.com/jwestmoreland/Teensy-DCF77
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > For DC7FF - the AM is just 0.2ms (1) and 0.1ms (0) with no AM at
> >> the
> >> >> > minute
> >> >> > > marker, but WWVB is a little more complicated -
> >> >> > > 0.2ms (0), 0.5ms (1), and 0.8 ms (Marker) - 2 consecutive markers
> >> mark
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > > end of current minute/beginning of next minute.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > The DCF77 code seems to take some advantage of the signal
> >> level/timing
> >> >> > and
> >> >> > > the dimensions of the TFT display for
> >> >> > > displaying the signaling - at least that's what it appears to me
> >> right
> >> >> > now
> >> >> > > unless I'm looking at this wrong - I guess that isn't
> >> >> > > a big deal until you try to deal with the marker timing for WWVB
> -
> >> of
> >> >> > > course I could be looking at this wrong right now too.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Maybe trying something like the Goertzel algorithm like KE9NS has
> >> >> done in
> >> >> > > his work with WWV is worth taking a look at too with
> >> >> > > this setup.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > 73's,
> >> >> > > John
> >> >> > > AJ6BC
> >> >> > >
&

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[paul swed]

> >> >> that;
>> >> >> I haven't looked close enough yet to know for sure what's setting
>> that.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Glad you're making progress with your approach.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 73's,
>> >> >> John
>> >> >> AJ6BC
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Mon, Nov 2, 2020, 18:20 paul swed  wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > John thats exactly what Chris did. Its the teensywwvb.ino. It
>> decodes
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> > AM timecode just as the DCF code does. In fact Chris's code is
>> >> derived
>> >> >> from
>> >> >> > the DCF code with the changes you are asking about and it works.
>> >> >> Download
>> >> >> > his solution and read the comments throughout. The original DCF
>> >> comments
>> >> >> > are in it also.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Its the starting point for the tinkering I am doing towards a BPSK
>> >> SDR.
>> >> >> > Thats a big leap for me.
>> >> >> > What the code gives you is the frontend gain, followed by a
>> bandpass
>> >> >> > filter. Multiplier that mixes the LO and incoming signal to a
>> lowpass
>> >> >> > filter. Then on to AM detection and AGC.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > If you don't care to install the arduino IDE with teensy extension
>> >> just
>> >> >> use
>> >> >> > notepad ++ to look at the code. Pretty exciting.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Regards
>> >> >> > Paul
>> >> >> > WB8TSL
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 8:24 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
>> >> >> > j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > > Hello Time Nuts,
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > I have a question -
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > Has anyone been successful getting WWVB to decode using the
>> example
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> > > DCF77 and making the changes for WWVB?
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > Chris has his own approach - it's interesting - but on my setup
>> at
>> >> >> least
>> >> >> > I
>> >> >> > > haven't been successful with it - maybe it's my antenna - not
>> sure
>> >> >> just
>> >> >> > > yet.
>> >> >> > > Also - my screen eventually 'whites-out' after running that for
>> a
>> >> >> while -
>> >> >> > > meaning - the screen goes completely white and I don't know
>> what's
>> >> >> doing
>> >> >> > > that yet - I suppose it's a bug of some sort.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > But, with the DCF77 approach - it appears to identify bits OK -
>> >> with
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> > > code having only minimal changes - so I'd like to go down that
>> >> path.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > Note - I have a fork here - but it's debug - and not sure it's
>> >> worth
>> >> >> > > anything other than looking at some of the data that's being
>> >> dumped.
>> >> >> > > https://github.com/jwestmoreland/Teensy-DCF77
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > For DC7FF - the AM is just 0.2ms (1) and 0.1ms (0) with no AM at
>> >> the
>> >> >> > minute
>> >> >> > > marker, but WWVB is a little more complicated -
>> >> >> > > 0.2ms (0), 0.5ms (1), and 0.8 ms (Marker) - 2 consecutive
>> markers
>> >> mark
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > > end of current minute/beginning of next minute.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > The DCF77 code seems to take some advantage of the signal
>> >> level/timing
>> >> >> > and
>> >> >> > > the dimensions of the TFT display for
>> >> >> > > dis

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[paul swed]

> filter. Multiplier that mixes the LO and incoming signal to a
> lowpass
> > >> > filter. Then on to AM detection and AGC.
> > >> >
> > >> > If you don't care to install the arduino IDE with teensy extension
> > just
> > >> use
> > >> > notepad ++ to look at the code. Pretty exciting.
> > >> >
> > >> > Regards
> > >> > Paul
> > >> > WB8TSL
> > >> >
> > >> > On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 8:24 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
> > >> > j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > Hello Time Nuts,
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I have a question -
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Has anyone been successful getting WWVB to decode using the
> example
> > >> for
> > >> > > DCF77 and making the changes for WWVB?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Chris has his own approach - it's interesting - but on my setup at
> > >> least
> > >> > I
> > >> > > haven't been successful with it - maybe it's my antenna - not sure
> > >> just
> > >> > > yet.
> > >> > > Also - my screen eventually 'whites-out' after running that for a
> > >> while -
> > >> > > meaning - the screen goes completely white and I don't know what's
> > >> doing
> > >> > > that yet - I suppose it's a bug of some sort.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > But, with the DCF77 approach - it appears to identify bits OK -
> with
> > >> the
> > >> > > code having only minimal changes - so I'd like to go down that
> path.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Note - I have a fork here - but it's debug - and not sure it's
> worth
> > >> > > anything other than looking at some of the data that's being
> dumped.
> > >> > > https://github.com/jwestmoreland/Teensy-DCF77
> > >> > >
> > >> > > For DC7FF - the AM is just 0.2ms (1) and 0.1ms (0) with no AM at
> the
> > >> > minute
> > >> > > marker, but WWVB is a little more complicated -
> > >> > > 0.2ms (0), 0.5ms (1), and 0.8 ms (Marker) - 2 consecutive markers
> > mark
> > >> > the
> > >> > > end of current minute/beginning of next minute.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > The DCF77 code seems to take some advantage of the signal
> > level/timing
> > >> > and
> > >> > > the dimensions of the TFT display for
> > >> > > displaying the signaling - at least that's what it appears to me
> > right
> > >> > now
> > >> > > unless I'm looking at this wrong - I guess that isn't
> > >> > > a big deal until you try to deal with the marker timing for WWVB -
> > of
> > >> > > course I could be looking at this wrong right now too.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Maybe trying something like the Goertzel algorithm like KE9NS has
> > >> done in
> > >> > > his work with WWV is worth taking a look at too with
> > >> > > this setup.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > 73's,
> > >> > > John
> > >> > > AJ6BC
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > On Sun, Nov 1, 2020 at 10:50 AM Mike Feher 
> > wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > Too bad I am an old retired hardware engineer and know nothing
> > about
> > >> > > these
> > >> > > > new SW controlled devices. Have Fun - Regards - Mike
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Mike B. Feher, N4FS
> > >> > > > 89 Arnold Blvd.
> > >> > > > Howell NJ 07731
> > >> > > > 848-245-9115
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > -Original Message-
> > >> > > > From: time-nuts  On Behalf Of
> > >> paul
> > >> > > swed
> > >> > > > Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2020 12:48 PM
> > >> > > > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <
> > >> > > > time-nuts@lists.febo.com>
> > >> > > &g

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[John C. Westmoreland, P.E.]

t; >> > filter. Then on to AM detection and AGC.
>> >> >
>> >> > If you don't care to install the arduino IDE with teensy extension
>> just
>> >> use
>> >> > notepad ++ to look at the code. Pretty exciting.
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards
>> >> > Paul
>> >> > WB8TSL
>> >> >
>> >> > On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 8:24 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
>> >> > j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > Hello Time Nuts,
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I have a question -
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Has anyone been successful getting WWVB to decode using the example
>> >> for
>> >> > > DCF77 and making the changes for WWVB?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Chris has his own approach - it's interesting - but on my setup at
>> >> least
>> >> > I
>> >> > > haven't been successful with it - maybe it's my antenna - not sure
>> >> just
>> >> > > yet.
>> >> > > Also - my screen eventually 'whites-out' after running that for a
>> >> while -
>> >> > > meaning - the screen goes completely white and I don't know what's
>> >> doing
>> >> > > that yet - I suppose it's a bug of some sort.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > But, with the DCF77 approach - it appears to identify bits OK -
>> with
>> >> the
>> >> > > code having only minimal changes - so I'd like to go down that
>> path.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Note - I have a fork here - but it's debug - and not sure it's
>> worth
>> >> > > anything other than looking at some of the data that's being
>> dumped.
>> >> > > https://github.com/jwestmoreland/Teensy-DCF77
>> >> > >
>> >> > > For DC7FF - the AM is just 0.2ms (1) and 0.1ms (0) with no AM at
>> the
>> >> > minute
>> >> > > marker, but WWVB is a little more complicated -
>> >> > > 0.2ms (0), 0.5ms (1), and 0.8 ms (Marker) - 2 consecutive markers
>> mark
>> >> > the
>> >> > > end of current minute/beginning of next minute.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > The DCF77 code seems to take some advantage of the signal
>> level/timing
>> >> > and
>> >> > > the dimensions of the TFT display for
>> >> > > displaying the signaling - at least that's what it appears to me
>> right
>> >> > now
>> >> > > unless I'm looking at this wrong - I guess that isn't
>> >> > > a big deal until you try to deal with the marker timing for WWVB -
>> of
>> >> > > course I could be looking at this wrong right now too.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Maybe trying something like the Goertzel algorithm like KE9NS has
>> >> done in
>> >> > > his work with WWV is worth taking a look at too with
>> >> > > this setup.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > 73's,
>> >> > > John
>> >> > > AJ6BC
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > On Sun, Nov 1, 2020 at 10:50 AM Mike Feher 
>> wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > > Too bad I am an old retired hardware engineer and know nothing
>> about
>> >> > > these
>> >> > > > new SW controlled devices. Have Fun - Regards - Mike
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Mike B. Feher, N4FS
>> >> > > > 89 Arnold Blvd.
>> >> > > > Howell NJ 07731
>> >> > > > 848-245-9115
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > -Original Message-
>> >> > > > From: time-nuts  On Behalf Of
>> >> paul
>> >> > > swed
>> >> > > > Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2020 12:48 PM
>> >> > > > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <
>> >> > > > time-nuts@lists.febo.com>
>> >> > > > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > John sent the link on the teensy wwvb AM receiver. It ca

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[John C. Westmoreland, P.E.]

ing the changes for WWVB?
> >> > >
> >> > > Chris has his own approach - it's interesting - but on my setup at
> >> least
> >> > I
> >> > > haven't been successful with it - maybe it's my antenna - not sure
> >> just
> >> > > yet.
> >> > > Also - my screen eventually 'whites-out' after running that for a
> >> while -
> >> > > meaning - the screen goes completely white and I don't know what's
> >> doing
> >> > > that yet - I suppose it's a bug of some sort.
> >> > >
> >> > > But, with the DCF77 approach - it appears to identify bits OK - with
> >> the
> >> > > code having only minimal changes - so I'd like to go down that path.
> >> > >
> >> > > Note - I have a fork here - but it's debug - and not sure it's worth
> >> > > anything other than looking at some of the data that's being dumped.
> >> > > https://github.com/jwestmoreland/Teensy-DCF77
> >> > >
> >> > > For DC7FF - the AM is just 0.2ms (1) and 0.1ms (0) with no AM at the
> >> > minute
> >> > > marker, but WWVB is a little more complicated -
> >> > > 0.2ms (0), 0.5ms (1), and 0.8 ms (Marker) - 2 consecutive markers
> mark
> >> > the
> >> > > end of current minute/beginning of next minute.
> >> > >
> >> > > The DCF77 code seems to take some advantage of the signal
> level/timing
> >> > and
> >> > > the dimensions of the TFT display for
> >> > > displaying the signaling - at least that's what it appears to me
> right
> >> > now
> >> > > unless I'm looking at this wrong - I guess that isn't
> >> > > a big deal until you try to deal with the marker timing for WWVB -
> of
> >> > > course I could be looking at this wrong right now too.
> >> > >
> >> > > Maybe trying something like the Goertzel algorithm like KE9NS has
> >> done in
> >> > > his work with WWV is worth taking a look at too with
> >> > > this setup.
> >> > >
> >> > > 73's,
> >> > > John
> >> > > AJ6BC
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > On Sun, Nov 1, 2020 at 10:50 AM Mike Feher 
> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > Too bad I am an old retired hardware engineer and know nothing
> about
> >> > > these
> >> > > > new SW controlled devices. Have Fun - Regards - Mike
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Mike B. Feher, N4FS
> >> > > > 89 Arnold Blvd.
> >> > > > Howell NJ 07731
> >> > > > 848-245-9115
> >> > > >
> >> > > > -Original Message-
> >> > > > From: time-nuts  On Behalf Of
> >> paul
> >> > > swed
> >> > > > Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2020 12:48 PM
> >> > > > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <
> >> > > > time-nuts@lists.febo.com>
> >> > > > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments
> >> > > >
> >> > > > John sent the link on the teensy wwvb AM receiver. It can easily
> be
> >> > > > shifted to other frequencies. Using the work Frank dcf77 and then
> >> Chris
> >> > > > wwvb did with the PJRC audio design tool gives quite a bit of
> >> insight
> >> > to
> >> > > > the work that was done.
> >> > > > The system assumes a sample rate of 192Khz. That limits the
> receive
> >> > range
> >> > > > to about 98KHz.
> >> > > > I have not been able to confirm the rate I am using is 192Khz and
> >> when
> >> > > the
> >> > > > set command is used its not recognized. So somethings up.
> >> > > > The design Chris has essentially is a microphone input with some
> 38
> >> db
> >> > of
> >> > > > gain feeding a bandpass filter around 60 KHz to a multiplier (RF
> >> mixer)
> >> > > > then a low pass filter. Chris and Franks design is much more than
> >> these
> >> > > few
> >> > > > words with spectrum display, signal level, and AGC.
> >> > > > So without any effor

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[paul swed]

 minute
>> > > marker, but WWVB is a little more complicated -
>> > > 0.2ms (0), 0.5ms (1), and 0.8 ms (Marker) - 2 consecutive markers mark
>> > the
>> > > end of current minute/beginning of next minute.
>> > >
>> > > The DCF77 code seems to take some advantage of the signal level/timing
>> > and
>> > > the dimensions of the TFT display for
>> > > displaying the signaling - at least that's what it appears to me right
>> > now
>> > > unless I'm looking at this wrong - I guess that isn't
>> > > a big deal until you try to deal with the marker timing for WWVB - of
>> > > course I could be looking at this wrong right now too.
>> > >
>> > > Maybe trying something like the Goertzel algorithm like KE9NS has
>> done in
>> > > his work with WWV is worth taking a look at too with
>> > > this setup.
>> > >
>> > > 73's,
>> > > John
>> > > AJ6BC
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Sun, Nov 1, 2020 at 10:50 AM Mike Feher  wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Too bad I am an old retired hardware engineer and know nothing about
>> > > these
>> > > > new SW controlled devices. Have Fun - Regards - Mike
>> > > >
>> > > > Mike B. Feher, N4FS
>> > > > 89 Arnold Blvd.
>> > > > Howell NJ 07731
>> > > > 848-245-9115
>> > > >
>> > > > -Original Message-
>> > > > From: time-nuts  On Behalf Of
>> paul
>> > > swed
>> > > > Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2020 12:48 PM
>> > > > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <
>> > > > time-nuts@lists.febo.com>
>> > > > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments
>> > > >
>> > > > John sent the link on the teensy wwvb AM receiver. It can easily be
>> > > > shifted to other frequencies. Using the work Frank dcf77 and then
>> Chris
>> > > > wwvb did with the PJRC audio design tool gives quite a bit of
>> insight
>> > to
>> > > > the work that was done.
>> > > > The system assumes a sample rate of 192Khz. That limits the receive
>> > range
>> > > > to about 98KHz.
>> > > > I have not been able to confirm the rate I am using is 192Khz and
>> when
>> > > the
>> > > > set command is used its not recognized. So somethings up.
>> > > > The design Chris has essentially is a microphone input with some 38
>> db
>> > of
>> > > > gain feeding a bandpass filter around 60 KHz to a multiplier (RF
>> mixer)
>> > > > then a low pass filter. Chris and Franks design is much more than
>> these
>> > > few
>> > > > words with spectrum display, signal level, and AGC.
>> > > > So without any effort the frontend solution is sitting in the teensy
>> > that
>> > > > cuts out a bunch of typical wiring. Granted its not as tight as
>> > discrete
>> > > > components can be. But its a chunk of software code. No digi key
>> orders
>> > > for
>> > > > L & Cs... :-) The output of the chain is 600 Hz audio that does
>> contain
>> > > the
>> > > > phase changes.
>> > > >
>> > > > But the trick is creating the true I & Q channels. Not an issue to
>> add
>> > a
>> > > > second multiplier and chain did that last night. But at someplace a
>> 90
>> > > > degree phase change or delay needs to occur.
>> > > > Or as suggested a hilbert transform.
>> > > > Regards
>> > > > Paul
>> > > > WB8TSL
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > ___
>> > > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
>> > > > To unsubscribe, go to
>> > > > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>> > > > and follow the instructions there.
>> > > >
>> > > ___
>> > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
>> > > To unsubscribe, go to
>> > > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>> > > and follow the instructions there.
>> > >
>> > ___
>> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
>> > To unsubscribe, go to
>> > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>> > and follow the instructions there.
>> >
>> ___
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>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[paul swed]

WWV is worth taking a look at too with
> > > this setup.
> > >
> > > 73's,
> > > John
> > > AJ6BC
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Nov 1, 2020 at 10:50 AM Mike Feher  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Too bad I am an old retired hardware engineer and know nothing about
> > > these
> > > > new SW controlled devices. Have Fun - Regards - Mike
> > > >
> > > > Mike B. Feher, N4FS
> > > > 89 Arnold Blvd.
> > > > Howell NJ 07731
> > > > 848-245-9115
> > > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: time-nuts  On Behalf Of paul
> > > swed
> > > > Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2020 12:48 PM
> > > > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <
> > > > time-nuts@lists.febo.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments
> > > >
> > > > John sent the link on the teensy wwvb AM receiver. It can easily be
> > > > shifted to other frequencies. Using the work Frank dcf77 and then
> Chris
> > > > wwvb did with the PJRC audio design tool gives quite a bit of insight
> > to
> > > > the work that was done.
> > > > The system assumes a sample rate of 192Khz. That limits the receive
> > range
> > > > to about 98KHz.
> > > > I have not been able to confirm the rate I am using is 192Khz and
> when
> > > the
> > > > set command is used its not recognized. So somethings up.
> > > > The design Chris has essentially is a microphone input with some 38
> db
> > of
> > > > gain feeding a bandpass filter around 60 KHz to a multiplier (RF
> mixer)
> > > > then a low pass filter. Chris and Franks design is much more than
> these
> > > few
> > > > words with spectrum display, signal level, and AGC.
> > > > So without any effort the frontend solution is sitting in the teensy
> > that
> > > > cuts out a bunch of typical wiring. Granted its not as tight as
> > discrete
> > > > components can be. But its a chunk of software code. No digi key
> orders
> > > for
> > > > L & Cs... :-) The output of the chain is 600 Hz audio that does
> contain
> > > the
> > > > phase changes.
> > > >
> > > > But the trick is creating the true I & Q channels. Not an issue to
> add
> > a
> > > > second multiplier and chain did that last night. But at someplace a
> 90
> > > > degree phase change or delay needs to occur.
> > > > Or as suggested a hilbert transform.
> > > > Regards
> > > > Paul
> > > > WB8TSL
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> > > > To unsubscribe, go to
> > > > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> > > > and follow the instructions there.
> > > >
> > > ___
> > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> > > To unsubscribe, go to
> > > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> > > and follow the instructions there.
> > >
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> > http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
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Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[John C. Westmoreland, P.E.]

Paul,

Have you successfully decoded WWVB with Chris's code?

I haven't gotten that to work.

I'm using the same antenna set up I've used that works with the multipsk
Clock program to decode WWVB that will decode fairly reliably as long as
atmospheric conditions are favorable.

Note, if using the Arduino IDE and you're connected to a PC; it will
sometimes set the clock on the TFT to the PC's clock; I'm mentioning that
since some that try this could think their set up is synced to WWVB when it
actually grabbed time from the PC.  Maybe the loader from Teensy does that;
I haven't looked close enough yet to know for sure what's setting that.

Glad you're making progress with your approach.

73's,
John
AJ6BC


On Mon, Nov 2, 2020, 18:20 paul swed  wrote:

> John thats exactly what Chris did. Its the teensywwvb.ino. It decodes the
> AM timecode just as the DCF code does. In fact Chris's code is derived from
> the DCF code with the changes you are asking about and it works. Download
> his solution and read the comments throughout. The original DCF comments
> are in it also.
>
> Its the starting point for the tinkering I am doing towards a BPSK SDR.
> Thats a big leap for me.
> What the code gives you is the frontend gain, followed by a bandpass
> filter. Multiplier that mixes the LO and incoming signal to a lowpass
> filter. Then on to AM detection and AGC.
>
> If you don't care to install the arduino IDE with teensy extension just use
> notepad ++ to look at the code. Pretty exciting.
>
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
> On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 8:24 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
> j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello Time Nuts,
> >
> > I have a question -
> >
> > Has anyone been successful getting WWVB to decode using the example for
> > DCF77 and making the changes for WWVB?
> >
> > Chris has his own approach - it's interesting - but on my setup at least
> I
> > haven't been successful with it - maybe it's my antenna - not sure just
> > yet.
> > Also - my screen eventually 'whites-out' after running that for a while -
> > meaning - the screen goes completely white and I don't know what's doing
> > that yet - I suppose it's a bug of some sort.
> >
> > But, with the DCF77 approach - it appears to identify bits OK - with the
> > code having only minimal changes - so I'd like to go down that path.
> >
> > Note - I have a fork here - but it's debug - and not sure it's worth
> > anything other than looking at some of the data that's being dumped.
> > https://github.com/jwestmoreland/Teensy-DCF77
> >
> > For DC7FF - the AM is just 0.2ms (1) and 0.1ms (0) with no AM at the
> minute
> > marker, but WWVB is a little more complicated -
> > 0.2ms (0), 0.5ms (1), and 0.8 ms (Marker) - 2 consecutive markers mark
> the
> > end of current minute/beginning of next minute.
> >
> > The DCF77 code seems to take some advantage of the signal level/timing
> and
> > the dimensions of the TFT display for
> > displaying the signaling - at least that's what it appears to me right
> now
> > unless I'm looking at this wrong - I guess that isn't
> > a big deal until you try to deal with the marker timing for WWVB - of
> > course I could be looking at this wrong right now too.
> >
> > Maybe trying something like the Goertzel algorithm like KE9NS has done in
> > his work with WWV is worth taking a look at too with
> > this setup.
> >
> > 73's,
> > John
> > AJ6BC
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 1, 2020 at 10:50 AM Mike Feher  wrote:
> >
> > > Too bad I am an old retired hardware engineer and know nothing about
> > these
> > > new SW controlled devices. Have Fun - Regards - Mike
> > >
> > > Mike B. Feher, N4FS
> > > 89 Arnold Blvd.
> > > Howell NJ 07731
> > > 848-245-9115
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: time-nuts  On Behalf Of paul
> > swed
> > > Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2020 12:48 PM
> > > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <
> > > time-nuts@lists.febo.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments
> > >
> > > John sent the link on the teensy wwvb AM receiver. It can easily be
> > > shifted to other frequencies. Using the work Frank dcf77 and then Chris
> > > wwvb did with the PJRC audio design tool gives quite a bit of insight
> to
> > > the work that was done.
> > > The system assumes a sample rate of 192Khz. That limits the receive
> range
> > > to about 98KHz.
> > > I ha

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[Chris Howard]

On 11/2/20 6:59 PM, John C. Westmoreland, P.E. wrote:

Hello Time Nuts,

I have a question -

Has anyone been successful getting WWVB to decode using the example for
DCF77 and making the changes for WWVB?



Yes.

Maybe you mean other than me?

Chris


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Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[paul swed]

John thats exactly what Chris did. Its the teensywwvb.ino. It decodes the
AM timecode just as the DCF code does. In fact Chris's code is derived from
the DCF code with the changes you are asking about and it works. Download
his solution and read the comments throughout. The original DCF comments
are in it also.

Its the starting point for the tinkering I am doing towards a BPSK SDR.
Thats a big leap for me.
What the code gives you is the frontend gain, followed by a bandpass
filter. Multiplier that mixes the LO and incoming signal to a lowpass
filter. Then on to AM detection and AGC.

If you don't care to install the arduino IDE with teensy extension just use
notepad ++ to look at the code. Pretty exciting.

Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 8:24 PM John C. Westmoreland, P.E. <
j...@westmorelandengineering.com> wrote:

> Hello Time Nuts,
>
> I have a question -
>
> Has anyone been successful getting WWVB to decode using the example for
> DCF77 and making the changes for WWVB?
>
> Chris has his own approach - it's interesting - but on my setup at least I
> haven't been successful with it - maybe it's my antenna - not sure just
> yet.
> Also - my screen eventually 'whites-out' after running that for a while -
> meaning - the screen goes completely white and I don't know what's doing
> that yet - I suppose it's a bug of some sort.
>
> But, with the DCF77 approach - it appears to identify bits OK - with the
> code having only minimal changes - so I'd like to go down that path.
>
> Note - I have a fork here - but it's debug - and not sure it's worth
> anything other than looking at some of the data that's being dumped.
> https://github.com/jwestmoreland/Teensy-DCF77
>
> For DC7FF - the AM is just 0.2ms (1) and 0.1ms (0) with no AM at the minute
> marker, but WWVB is a little more complicated -
> 0.2ms (0), 0.5ms (1), and 0.8 ms (Marker) - 2 consecutive markers mark the
> end of current minute/beginning of next minute.
>
> The DCF77 code seems to take some advantage of the signal level/timing and
> the dimensions of the TFT display for
> displaying the signaling - at least that's what it appears to me right now
> unless I'm looking at this wrong - I guess that isn't
> a big deal until you try to deal with the marker timing for WWVB - of
> course I could be looking at this wrong right now too.
>
> Maybe trying something like the Goertzel algorithm like KE9NS has done in
> his work with WWV is worth taking a look at too with
> this setup.
>
> 73's,
> John
> AJ6BC
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 1, 2020 at 10:50 AM Mike Feher  wrote:
>
> > Too bad I am an old retired hardware engineer and know nothing about
> these
> > new SW controlled devices. Have Fun - Regards - Mike
> >
> > Mike B. Feher, N4FS
> > 89 Arnold Blvd.
> > Howell NJ 07731
> > 848-245-9115
> >
> > -Original Message-----
> > From: time-nuts  On Behalf Of paul
> swed
> > Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2020 12:48 PM
> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <
> > time-nuts@lists.febo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments
> >
> > John sent the link on the teensy wwvb AM receiver. It can easily be
> > shifted to other frequencies. Using the work Frank dcf77 and then Chris
> > wwvb did with the PJRC audio design tool gives quite a bit of insight to
> > the work that was done.
> > The system assumes a sample rate of 192Khz. That limits the receive range
> > to about 98KHz.
> > I have not been able to confirm the rate I am using is 192Khz and when
> the
> > set command is used its not recognized. So somethings up.
> > The design Chris has essentially is a microphone input with some 38 db of
> > gain feeding a bandpass filter around 60 KHz to a multiplier (RF mixer)
> > then a low pass filter. Chris and Franks design is much more than these
> few
> > words with spectrum display, signal level, and AGC.
> > So without any effort the frontend solution is sitting in the teensy that
> > cuts out a bunch of typical wiring. Granted its not as tight as discrete
> > components can be. But its a chunk of software code. No digi key orders
> for
> > L & Cs... :-) The output of the chain is 600 Hz audio that does contain
> the
> > phase changes.
> >
> > But the trick is creating the true I & Q channels. Not an issue to add a
> > second multiplier and chain did that last night. But at someplace a 90
> > degree phase change or delay needs to occur.
> > Or as suggested a hilbert transform.
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[John C. Westmoreland, P.E.]

Hello Time Nuts,

I have a question -

Has anyone been successful getting WWVB to decode using the example for
DCF77 and making the changes for WWVB?

Chris has his own approach - it's interesting - but on my setup at least I
haven't been successful with it - maybe it's my antenna - not sure just yet.
Also - my screen eventually 'whites-out' after running that for a while -
meaning - the screen goes completely white and I don't know what's doing
that yet - I suppose it's a bug of some sort.

But, with the DCF77 approach - it appears to identify bits OK - with the
code having only minimal changes - so I'd like to go down that path.

Note - I have a fork here - but it's debug - and not sure it's worth
anything other than looking at some of the data that's being dumped.
https://github.com/jwestmoreland/Teensy-DCF77

For DC7FF - the AM is just 0.2ms (1) and 0.1ms (0) with no AM at the minute
marker, but WWVB is a little more complicated -
0.2ms (0), 0.5ms (1), and 0.8 ms (Marker) - 2 consecutive markers mark the
end of current minute/beginning of next minute.

The DCF77 code seems to take some advantage of the signal level/timing and
the dimensions of the TFT display for
displaying the signaling - at least that's what it appears to me right now
unless I'm looking at this wrong - I guess that isn't
a big deal until you try to deal with the marker timing for WWVB - of
course I could be looking at this wrong right now too.

Maybe trying something like the Goertzel algorithm like KE9NS has done in
his work with WWV is worth taking a look at too with
this setup.

73's,
John
AJ6BC





On Sun, Nov 1, 2020 at 10:50 AM Mike Feher  wrote:

> Too bad I am an old retired hardware engineer and know nothing about these
> new SW controlled devices. Have Fun - Regards - Mike
>
> Mike B. Feher, N4FS
> 89 Arnold Blvd.
> Howell NJ 07731
> 848-245-9115
>
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts  On Behalf Of paul swed
> Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2020 12:48 PM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <
> time-nuts@lists.febo.com>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments
>
> John sent the link on the teensy wwvb AM receiver. It can easily be
> shifted to other frequencies. Using the work Frank dcf77 and then Chris
> wwvb did with the PJRC audio design tool gives quite a bit of insight to
> the work that was done.
> The system assumes a sample rate of 192Khz. That limits the receive range
> to about 98KHz.
> I have not been able to confirm the rate I am using is 192Khz and when the
> set command is used its not recognized. So somethings up.
> The design Chris has essentially is a microphone input with some 38 db of
> gain feeding a bandpass filter around 60 KHz to a multiplier (RF mixer)
> then a low pass filter. Chris and Franks design is much more than these few
> words with spectrum display, signal level, and AGC.
> So without any effort the frontend solution is sitting in the teensy that
> cuts out a bunch of typical wiring. Granted its not as tight as discrete
> components can be. But its a chunk of software code. No digi key orders for
> L & Cs... :-) The output of the chain is 600 Hz audio that does contain the
> phase changes.
>
> But the trick is creating the true I & Q channels. Not an issue to add a
> second multiplier and chain did that last night. But at someplace a 90
> degree phase change or delay needs to occur.
> Or as suggested a hilbert transform.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
>
>
>
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[paul swed]

John sent the link on the teensy wwvb AM receiver. It can easily be shifted
to other frequencies. Using the work Frank dcf77 and then Chris wwvb did
with the PJRC audio design tool gives quite a bit of insight to the work
that was done.
The system assumes a sample rate of 192Khz. That limits the receive range
to about 98KHz.
I have not been able to confirm the rate I am using is 192Khz and when the
set command is used its not recognized. So somethings up.
The design Chris has essentially is a microphone input with some 38 db of
gain feeding a bandpass filter around 60 KHz to a multiplier (RF mixer)
then a low pass filter. Chris and Franks design is much more than these few
words with spectrum display, signal level, and AGC.
So without any effort the frontend solution is sitting in the teensy that
cuts out a bunch of typical wiring. Granted its not as tight as discrete
components can be. But its a chunk of software code. No digi key orders for
L & Cs... :-)
The output of the chain is 600 Hz audio that does contain the phase changes.

But the trick is creating the true I & Q channels. Not an issue to add a
second multiplier and chain did that last night. But at someplace a 90
degree phase change or delay needs to occur.
Or as suggested a hilbert transform.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL



On Sun, Nov 1, 2020 at 5:35 AM  wrote:

> Thanks John.
>
> Ray,
> AB7HE
>
>  Original Message ----
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments
> From: "John C. Westmoreland, P.E." 
> Date: Sat, October 31, 2020 9:06 pm
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> 
>
> Ray,
>
> https://github.com/chris-elfpen/Teensy4WWVBsdr
>
> 73's,
> John
> AJ6BC
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 18:31  wrote:
>
> > Bob,
> >
> > "Things already accomplished by Chris in the wwvb AM receiver"
> >
> > Is there a link to the AM receiver? Curious as to what that looks like.
> >
> > Ray,
> > AB7HE
> >
> >  Original Message 
> > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments
> > From: Bob kb8tq 
> > Date: Sat, October 31, 2020 11:42 am
> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> > 
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > …..errr…..
> >
> > Can you pull the clock oscillator off the Teensy board? (Yes, the
> > soldering
> > iron would be involved).
> >
> > Will the clock input to the MCU accept something like 10 MHz? If so
> > solder
> > on a cable ….
> >
> > At that point whatever the Teeny does is locked to the 10 MHz. If that
> > comes
> > from one of the $3 eBay OCXO’s, steer that with a DAC output … now
> > you
> > have a WWVB GPSDO.
> >
> > Indeed, if the Teensy needs 28 MHz, then the OCXO will not be quite as
> > cheap.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> > > On Oct 31, 2020, at 1:47 PM, paul swed  wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello to the group. Wanted to update the everyone thats interested in
> > > what I have learned so far on the Teensy and audio codec. No complete
> > > solution yet. Much of my experimentation and knowledge has come from
> > Frank
> > > and Chris, who built the complete wwvb AM time receiver. In addition
> > > and important is Johns KD2DB BPSK receiver. There is a reason this
> > matters.
> > >
> > > The teensy combination is powerful and somewhat easy to use. (Has to be
> > for
> > > me). So over the week or so it's been getting used to the audio
> libraries
> > > and how pieces are connected in software and then seeing the results.
> All
> > > of the base experiments worked very quickly. Simple things like signal
> > > generators, multipliers and filters. Things already accomplished by
> Chris
> > > in the wwvb AM receiver.
> > >
> > > But the question really is what to accomplish?
> > > If its the wwvb bpsk timecode. Simply buy an ES100 and be done.
> > >
> > > The interest that I have is a locked reference. Minimizing soldering
> and
> > > construction. This is the point things get interesting.
> > > A NCO can be created in Teensy but it tends to be low frequency and a
> > > multiple of 60 KHz. Stability sort of isn't. But if it could be created
> > > then a complete frequency reference in the teensy could be
> accomplished.
> > > That makes for a heck of a low power receiver 1 watt, inexpensive, and
> > > little soldering.
> > > The above path literally follows the old Spectracoms and Truetime
> direct
> > > conversion receivers.
> > > Have to look at their schematics because 

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[rcbuck]

Thanks John.

Ray,
AB7HE

 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments
From: "John C. Westmoreland, P.E." 
Date: Sat, October 31, 2020 9:06 pm
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement


Ray,

https://github.com/chris-elfpen/Teensy4WWVBsdr

73's,
John
AJ6BC


On Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 18:31  wrote:

> Bob,
>
> "Things already accomplished by Chris in the wwvb AM receiver"
>
> Is there a link to the AM receiver? Curious as to what that looks like.
>
> Ray,
> AB7HE
>
> ---- Original Message ----
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments
> From: Bob kb8tq 
> Date: Sat, October 31, 2020 11:42 am
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> 
>
> Hi
>
> …..errr…..
>
> Can you pull the clock oscillator off the Teensy board? (Yes, the
> soldering
> iron would be involved).
>
> Will the clock input to the MCU accept something like 10 MHz? If so
> solder
> on a cable ….
>
> At that point whatever the Teeny does is locked to the 10 MHz. If that
> comes
> from one of the $3 eBay OCXO’s, steer that with a DAC output … now
> you
> have a WWVB GPSDO.
>
> Indeed, if the Teensy needs 28 MHz, then the OCXO will not be quite as
> cheap.
>
> Bob
>
> > On Oct 31, 2020, at 1:47 PM, paul swed  wrote:
> >
> > Hello to the group. Wanted to update the everyone thats interested in
> > what I have learned so far on the Teensy and audio codec. No complete
> > solution yet. Much of my experimentation and knowledge has come from
> Frank
> > and Chris, who built the complete wwvb AM time receiver. In addition
> > and important is Johns KD2DB BPSK receiver. There is a reason this
> matters.
> >
> > The teensy combination is powerful and somewhat easy to use. (Has to be
> for
> > me). So over the week or so it's been getting used to the audio libraries
> > and how pieces are connected in software and then seeing the results. All
> > of the base experiments worked very quickly. Simple things like signal
> > generators, multipliers and filters. Things already accomplished by Chris
> > in the wwvb AM receiver.
> >
> > But the question really is what to accomplish?
> > If its the wwvb bpsk timecode. Simply buy an ES100 and be done.
> >
> > The interest that I have is a locked reference. Minimizing soldering and
> > construction. This is the point things get interesting.
> > A NCO can be created in Teensy but it tends to be low frequency and a
> > multiple of 60 KHz. Stability sort of isn't. But if it could be created
> > then a complete frequency reference in the teensy could be accomplished.
> > That makes for a heck of a low power receiver 1 watt, inexpensive, and
> > little soldering.
> > The above path literally follows the old Spectracoms and Truetime direct
> > conversion receivers.
> > Have to look at their schematics because they do lock a useful reference.
> > But that means something external has to come into the teensy. Get the
> > soldering iron hot.
> >
> > The other approach is essentially Johns KD2BD receiver in software with
> an
> > external reference chain delivering 50KHz and 10 KHz to the teensy. Well
> > this is getting ugly now because that external chain is made up of a
> > classical divider 10 MHz to 50 KHz etc. But does give a very nicely
> locked
> > useful wwvb reference. Its really a hybrid because it significantly
> reduces
> > the soldering required in a true KD2BD receiver but isn't the pure in
> > a chip solution.
> >
> > All of this is just for fun because the fact is the GPDSOs we use are
> > better.
> > If a receiver is built a natural by-product is the time message. Its just
> > not my focus or interest.
> > Much more to learn.
> >
> > Next steps
> > Start to reuse the wwvb teensy AM receiver.
> > Chop out all of the display software. Its all very nice but for me at
> this
> > stage gets in the way of understanding things.
> >
> > With respect to I generation several suggestions have been made. But
> the
> > teensy supports multiple multipliers. Sort of thinking, use the sine
> > wave oscillator and add a 90 degree delay to a second path to a second
> > multiplier. An alternative inject the delay in the wwvb signal also. How
> > fine a delay is a serious question.
> > Much to learn and potholes to fall into.
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[John C. Westmoreland, P.E.]

Ray,

https://github.com/chris-elfpen/Teensy4WWVBsdr

73's,
John
AJ6BC


On Sat, Oct 31, 2020, 18:31  wrote:

> Bob,
>
> "Things already accomplished by Chris in the wwvb AM receiver"
>
> Is there a link to the AM receiver? Curious as to what that looks like.
>
> Ray,
> AB7HE
>
> ---- Original Message ----
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments
> From: Bob kb8tq 
> Date: Sat, October 31, 2020 11:42 am
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> 
>
> Hi
>
> …..errr…..
>
> Can you pull the clock oscillator off the Teensy board? (Yes, the
> soldering
> iron would be involved).
>
> Will the clock input to the MCU accept something like 10 MHz? If so
> solder
> on a cable ….
>
> At that point whatever the Teeny does is locked to the 10 MHz. If that
> comes
> from one of the $3 eBay OCXO’s, steer that with a DAC output … now
> you
> have a WWVB GPSDO.
>
> Indeed, if the Teensy needs 28 MHz, then the OCXO will not be quite as
> cheap.
>
> Bob
>
> > On Oct 31, 2020, at 1:47 PM, paul swed  wrote:
> >
> > Hello to the group. Wanted to update the everyone thats interested in
> > what I have learned so far on the Teensy and audio codec. No complete
> > solution yet. Much of my experimentation and knowledge has come from
> Frank
> > and Chris, who built the complete wwvb AM time receiver. In addition
> > and important is Johns KD2DB BPSK receiver. There is a reason this
> matters.
> >
> > The teensy combination is powerful and somewhat easy to use. (Has to be
> for
> > me). So over the week or so it's been getting used to the audio libraries
> > and how pieces are connected in software and then seeing the results. All
> > of the base experiments worked very quickly. Simple things like signal
> > generators, multipliers and filters. Things already accomplished by Chris
> > in the wwvb AM receiver.
> >
> > But the question really is what to accomplish?
> > If its the wwvb bpsk timecode. Simply buy an ES100 and be done.
> >
> > The interest that I have is a locked reference. Minimizing soldering and
> > construction. This is the point things get interesting.
> > A NCO can be created in Teensy but it tends to be low frequency and a
> > multiple of 60 KHz. Stability sort of isn't. But if it could be created
> > then a complete frequency reference in the teensy could be accomplished.
> > That makes for a heck of a low power receiver 1 watt, inexpensive, and
> > little soldering.
> > The above path literally follows the old Spectracoms and Truetime direct
> > conversion receivers.
> > Have to look at their schematics because they do lock a useful reference.
> > But that means something external has to come into the teensy. Get the
> > soldering iron hot.
> >
> > The other approach is essentially Johns KD2BD receiver in software with
> an
> > external reference chain delivering 50KHz and 10 KHz to the teensy. Well
> > this is getting ugly now because that external chain is made up of a
> > classical divider 10 MHz to 50 KHz etc. But does give a very nicely
> locked
> > useful wwvb reference. Its really a hybrid because it significantly
> reduces
> > the soldering required in a true KD2BD receiver but isn't the pure in
> > a chip solution.
> >
> > All of this is just for fun because the fact is the GPDSOs we use are
> > better.
> > If a receiver is built a natural by-product is the time message. Its just
> > not my focus or interest.
> > Much more to learn.
> >
> > Next steps
> > Start to reuse the wwvb teensy AM receiver.
> > Chop out all of the display software. Its all very nice but for me at
> this
> > stage gets in the way of understanding things.
> >
> > With respect to I generation several suggestions have been made. But
> the
> > teensy supports multiple multipliers. Sort of thinking, use the sine
> > wave oscillator and add a 90 degree delay to a second path to a second
> > multiplier. An alternative inject the delay in the wwvb signal also. How
> > fine a delay is a serious question.
> > Much to learn and potholes to fall into.
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> > and follow the instructions there.
>
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> and follow the instructions there.
>
> ___
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> To unsubscribe, go to
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[jimlux]

On 10/31/20 7:26 PM, Bob kb8tq wrote:

Hi




On Oct 31, 2020, at 9:45 PM, jimlux  wrote:

On 10/31/20 4:46 PM, Bob kb8tq wrote:

Hi
Looking at the data sheet for the MCU, they really do want 24 MHz and that’s 
about it. I suspect you would
do better to take your 10 MHz OCXO and run it into one of the frequency 
converter chips to get the 24.
Then feed that into the board. One more chip, but you now don’t have a bunch of 
stuff to hack up.



Yeah.. you can spin the dial on the signal generator and move the frequency up 
and down, but Nothing is guaranteed to work right.  Who knows what sort of 
little DPLLs are on that chip that have narrow ranges, etc.

This experiment was with a Teensy 3.1 - I had a lot of them, so I wasn't afraid 
to hack it up.


Your OCXO will have a much narrower tuning range at the extreme’s of it’s EFC 
than the tolerance on
the typical crystal. The MCU PLL’s will run over the OCXO tune range ….

Bob


I was thinking if you tried to run it at 10 MHz.. yeah, if you get a 24 
MHz OCXO, no problem.


But who knows what sort of weird timing stuff might happen inside 
running at less than half the speed.


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Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi



> On Oct 31, 2020, at 9:45 PM, jimlux  wrote:
> 
> On 10/31/20 4:46 PM, Bob kb8tq wrote:
>> Hi
>> Looking at the data sheet for the MCU, they really do want 24 MHz and that’s 
>> about it. I suspect you would
>> do better to take your 10 MHz OCXO and run it into one of the frequency 
>> converter chips to get the 24.
>> Then feed that into the board. One more chip, but you now don’t have a bunch 
>> of stuff to hack up.
> 
> 
> Yeah.. you can spin the dial on the signal generator and move the frequency 
> up and down, but Nothing is guaranteed to work right.  Who knows what 
> sort of little DPLLs are on that chip that have narrow ranges, etc.
> 
> This experiment was with a Teensy 3.1 - I had a lot of them, so I wasn't 
> afraid to hack it up.

Your OCXO will have a much narrower tuning range at the extreme’s of it’s EFC 
than the tolerance on 
the typical crystal. The MCU PLL’s will run over the OCXO tune range ….

Bob


> 
> 
>> Bob
>>> On Oct 31, 2020, at 7:17 PM, jimlux  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 10/31/20 11:42 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote:
 Hi
 …..errr…..
 Can you pull the clock oscillator off the Teensy board? (Yes, the soldering
 iron would be involved).
 Will the clock input to the MCU accept something like 10 MHz? If so solder
 on a cable ….
 At that point whatever the Teeny does is locked to the 10 MHz. If that 
 comes
 from one of the $3 eBay OCXO’s, steer that with a DAC output … now you
 have a WWVB GPSDO.
 Indeed, if the Teensy needs 28 MHz, then the OCXO will not be quite as 
 cheap.
 Bob
>>> 
>>> I've tried this - It will run just fine, but *all the UART and USB speeds 
>>> change*.  So, basically, the USB stops working, and you need to set your 
>>> serial port to something like 112.8 * 10/28 (and it takes a bit of fiddling 
>>> to get it to work right)..  I sort of cheated, and switched back and forth 
>>> - signal generator to 28MHz, load and debug software, start it, then switch 
>>> generator to 10 MHz.
>>> 
>>> And of course, all the functions that are time based, like delay() are the 
>>> wrong length.
>>> 
>>> One could probably figure out a relatively few patches to the Teensyduino 
>>> code base that would fix all this (clock rate is a variable - you can run 
>>> the teensy at multiple clock rates, even with the same crystal)
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
>>> To unsubscribe, go to 
>>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>>> and follow the instructions there.
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to 
>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>> and follow the instructions there.
> 
> 
> ___
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> To unsubscribe, go to 
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> and follow the instructions there.


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Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

The gizmo you want is a hot air rework tool. They are not all that expensive
( < $200 for a fancy one, quite a bit less for a simple one). They normally
come with a bunch of tips. That lets you “focus” the heat on the part you want 
to pull.

One of an infinite number, randomly chosen:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006FA481G/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8=1
 


Bob

> On Oct 31, 2020, at 8:42 PM, paul swed  wrote:
> 
> Jim
> Thanks for the details. I took a serious look at popping the xtal out and
> am afraid its a bit beyond me since there are 4 pads that need to be
> heated. I have worked on very small stuff under the microscope. But this
> seems problematic. I sort of thought all the bits would get upset. No free
> lunch.
> No matter not popping the xtal. Mainly because if anyone else did want to
> build the magical solution it would be as bad as soldering lots of chips.
> Super fine wires to very small pads.
> But at least at the moment perhaps thats not critical to developing
> something.
> I did tinker with delay and will need to use a scope at this point to see
> the effects.
> Regards
> Paul.
> 
> 
> On Sat, Oct 31, 2020 at 7:35 PM jimlux  wrote:
> 
>> On 10/31/20 11:42 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote:
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> …..errr…..
>>> 
>>> Can you pull the clock oscillator off the Teensy board? (Yes, the
>> soldering
>>> iron would be involved).
>>> 
>>> Will the clock input to the MCU accept something like 10 MHz? If so
>> solder
>>> on a cable ….
>>> 
>>> At that point whatever the Teeny does is locked to the 10 MHz. If that
>> comes
>>> from one of the $3 eBay OCXO’s, steer that with a DAC output … now you
>>> have a WWVB GPSDO.
>>> 
>>> Indeed, if the Teensy needs 28 MHz, then the OCXO will not be quite as
>> cheap.
>>> 
>>> Bob
>>> 
>> 
>> I've tried this - It will run just fine, but *all the UART and USB
>> speeds change*.  So, basically, the USB stops working, and you need to
>> set your serial port to something like 112.8 * 10/28 (and it takes a bit
>> of fiddling to get it to work right)..  I sort of cheated, and switched
>> back and forth - signal generator to 28MHz, load and debug software,
>> start it, then switch generator to 10 MHz.
>> 
>> And of course, all the functions that are time based, like delay() are
>> the wrong length.
>> 
>> One could probably figure out a relatively few patches to the
>> Teensyduino code base that would fix all this (clock rate is a variable
>> - you can run the teensy at multiple clock rates, even with the same
>> crystal)
>> 
>> ___
>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
>> To unsubscribe, go to
>> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
>> and follow the instructions there.
>> 
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> To unsubscribe, go to 
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
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Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[jimlux]

On 10/31/20 4:46 PM, Bob kb8tq wrote:

Hi

Looking at the data sheet for the MCU, they really do want 24 MHz and that’s 
about it. I suspect you would
do better to take your 10 MHz OCXO and run it into one of the frequency 
converter chips to get the 24.
Then feed that into the board. One more chip, but you now don’t have a bunch of 
stuff to hack up.



Yeah.. you can spin the dial on the signal generator and move the 
frequency up and down, but Nothing is guaranteed to work right.  Who 
knows what sort of little DPLLs are on that chip that have narrow 
ranges, etc.


This experiment was with a Teensy 3.1 - I had a lot of them, so I wasn't 
afraid to hack it up.





Bob


On Oct 31, 2020, at 7:17 PM, jimlux  wrote:

On 10/31/20 11:42 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote:

Hi
…..errr…..
Can you pull the clock oscillator off the Teensy board? (Yes, the soldering
iron would be involved).
Will the clock input to the MCU accept something like 10 MHz? If so solder
on a cable ….
At that point whatever the Teeny does is locked to the 10 MHz. If that comes
from one of the $3 eBay OCXO’s, steer that with a DAC output … now you
have a WWVB GPSDO.
Indeed, if the Teensy needs 28 MHz, then the OCXO will not be quite as cheap.
Bob


I've tried this - It will run just fine, but *all the UART and USB speeds 
change*.  So, basically, the USB stops working, and you need to set your serial 
port to something like 112.8 * 10/28 (and it takes a bit of fiddling to get it 
to work right)..  I sort of cheated, and switched back and forth - signal 
generator to 28MHz, load and debug software, start it, then switch generator to 
10 MHz.

And of course, all the functions that are time based, like delay() are the 
wrong length.

One could probably figure out a relatively few patches to the Teensyduino code 
base that would fix all this (clock rate is a variable - you can run the teensy 
at multiple clock rates, even with the same crystal)

___
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and follow the instructions there.



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Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[rcbuck]

Sorry Bob. I meant to address this question to Paul.

"Things already accomplished by Chris in the wwvb AM receiver"

Is there a link to the AM receiver? Curious as to what that looks like.

Ray,
AB7HE

 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments
From: 
Date: Sat, October 31, 2020 5:55 pm
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"


Bob,

"Things already accomplished by Chris in the wwvb AM receiver"

Is there a link to the AM receiver? Curious as to what that looks like.

Ray,
AB7HE

 Original Message ----
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments
From: Bob kb8tq 
Date: Sat, October 31, 2020 11:42 am
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement


Hi

…..errr….. 

Can you pull the clock oscillator off the Teensy board? (Yes, the
soldering 
iron would be involved).

Will the clock input to the MCU accept something like 10 MHz? If so
solder
on a cable ….

At that point whatever the Teeny does is locked to the 10 MHz. If that
comes
from one of the $3 eBay OCXO’s, steer that with a DAC output … now
you
have a WWVB GPSDO.

Indeed, if the Teensy needs 28 MHz, then the OCXO will not be quite as
cheap.

Bob

> On Oct 31, 2020, at 1:47 PM, paul swed  wrote:
> 
> Hello to the group. Wanted to update the everyone thats interested in
> what I have learned so far on the Teensy and audio codec. No complete
> solution yet. Much of my experimentation and knowledge has come from Frank
> and Chris, who built the complete wwvb AM time receiver. In addition
> and important is Johns KD2DB BPSK receiver. There is a reason this matters.
> 
> The teensy combination is powerful and somewhat easy to use. (Has to be for
> me). So over the week or so it's been getting used to the audio libraries
> and how pieces are connected in software and then seeing the results. All
> of the base experiments worked very quickly. Simple things like signal
> generators, multipliers and filters. Things already accomplished by Chris
> in the wwvb AM receiver.
> 
> But the question really is what to accomplish?
> If its the wwvb bpsk timecode. Simply buy an ES100 and be done.
> 
> The interest that I have is a locked reference. Minimizing soldering and
> construction. This is the point things get interesting.
> A NCO can be created in Teensy but it tends to be low frequency and a
> multiple of 60 KHz. Stability sort of isn't. But if it could be created
> then a complete frequency reference in the teensy could be accomplished.
> That makes for a heck of a low power receiver 1 watt, inexpensive, and
> little soldering.
> The above path literally follows the old Spectracoms and Truetime direct
> conversion receivers.
> Have to look at their schematics because they do lock a useful reference.
> But that means something external has to come into the teensy. Get the
> soldering iron hot.
> 
> The other approach is essentially Johns KD2BD receiver in software with an
> external reference chain delivering 50KHz and 10 KHz to the teensy. Well
> this is getting ugly now because that external chain is made up of a
> classical divider 10 MHz to 50 KHz etc. But does give a very nicely locked
> useful wwvb reference. Its really a hybrid because it significantly reduces
> the soldering required in a true KD2BD receiver but isn't the pure in
> a chip solution.
> 
> All of this is just for fun because the fact is the GPDSOs we use are
> better.
> If a receiver is built a natural by-product is the time message. Its just
> not my focus or interest.
> Much more to learn.
> 
> Next steps
> Start to reuse the wwvb teensy AM receiver.
> Chop out all of the display software. Its all very nice but for me at this
> stage gets in the way of understanding things.
> 
> With respect to I generation several suggestions have been made. But the
> teensy supports multiple multipliers. Sort of thinking, use the sine
> wave oscillator and add a 90 degree delay to a second path to a second
> multiplier. An alternative inject the delay in the wwvb signal also. How
> fine a delay is a serious question.
> Much to learn and potholes to fall into.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to 
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> and follow the instructions there.


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Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[rcbuck]

Bob,

"Things already accomplished by Chris in the wwvb AM receiver"

Is there a link to the AM receiver? Curious as to what that looks like.

Ray,
AB7HE

 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments
From: Bob kb8tq 
Date: Sat, October 31, 2020 11:42 am
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement


Hi

…..errr….. 

Can you pull the clock oscillator off the Teensy board? (Yes, the
soldering 
iron would be involved).

Will the clock input to the MCU accept something like 10 MHz? If so
solder
on a cable ….

At that point whatever the Teeny does is locked to the 10 MHz. If that
comes
from one of the $3 eBay OCXO’s, steer that with a DAC output … now
you
have a WWVB GPSDO.

Indeed, if the Teensy needs 28 MHz, then the OCXO will not be quite as
cheap.

Bob

> On Oct 31, 2020, at 1:47 PM, paul swed  wrote:
> 
> Hello to the group. Wanted to update the everyone thats interested in
> what I have learned so far on the Teensy and audio codec. No complete
> solution yet. Much of my experimentation and knowledge has come from Frank
> and Chris, who built the complete wwvb AM time receiver. In addition
> and important is Johns KD2DB BPSK receiver. There is a reason this matters.
> 
> The teensy combination is powerful and somewhat easy to use. (Has to be for
> me). So over the week or so it's been getting used to the audio libraries
> and how pieces are connected in software and then seeing the results. All
> of the base experiments worked very quickly. Simple things like signal
> generators, multipliers and filters. Things already accomplished by Chris
> in the wwvb AM receiver.
> 
> But the question really is what to accomplish?
> If its the wwvb bpsk timecode. Simply buy an ES100 and be done.
> 
> The interest that I have is a locked reference. Minimizing soldering and
> construction. This is the point things get interesting.
> A NCO can be created in Teensy but it tends to be low frequency and a
> multiple of 60 KHz. Stability sort of isn't. But if it could be created
> then a complete frequency reference in the teensy could be accomplished.
> That makes for a heck of a low power receiver 1 watt, inexpensive, and
> little soldering.
> The above path literally follows the old Spectracoms and Truetime direct
> conversion receivers.
> Have to look at their schematics because they do lock a useful reference.
> But that means something external has to come into the teensy. Get the
> soldering iron hot.
> 
> The other approach is essentially Johns KD2BD receiver in software with an
> external reference chain delivering 50KHz and 10 KHz to the teensy. Well
> this is getting ugly now because that external chain is made up of a
> classical divider 10 MHz to 50 KHz etc. But does give a very nicely locked
> useful wwvb reference. Its really a hybrid because it significantly reduces
> the soldering required in a true KD2BD receiver but isn't the pure in
> a chip solution.
> 
> All of this is just for fun because the fact is the GPDSOs we use are
> better.
> If a receiver is built a natural by-product is the time message. Its just
> not my focus or interest.
> Much more to learn.
> 
> Next steps
> Start to reuse the wwvb teensy AM receiver.
> Chop out all of the display software. Its all very nice but for me at this
> stage gets in the way of understanding things.
> 
> With respect to I generation several suggestions have been made. But the
> teensy supports multiple multipliers. Sort of thinking, use the sine
> wave oscillator and add a 90 degree delay to a second path to a second
> multiplier. An alternative inject the delay in the wwvb signal also. How
> fine a delay is a serious question.
> Much to learn and potholes to fall into.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to 
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
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Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[paul swed]

Jim
Thanks for the details. I took a serious look at popping the xtal out and
am afraid its a bit beyond me since there are 4 pads that need to be
heated. I have worked on very small stuff under the microscope. But this
seems problematic. I sort of thought all the bits would get upset. No free
lunch.
No matter not popping the xtal. Mainly because if anyone else did want to
build the magical solution it would be as bad as soldering lots of chips.
Super fine wires to very small pads.
But at least at the moment perhaps thats not critical to developing
something.
I did tinker with delay and will need to use a scope at this point to see
the effects.
Regards
Paul.


On Sat, Oct 31, 2020 at 7:35 PM jimlux  wrote:

> On 10/31/20 11:42 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > …..errr…..
> >
> > Can you pull the clock oscillator off the Teensy board? (Yes, the
> soldering
> > iron would be involved).
> >
> > Will the clock input to the MCU accept something like 10 MHz? If so
> solder
> > on a cable ….
> >
> > At that point whatever the Teeny does is locked to the 10 MHz. If that
> comes
> > from one of the $3 eBay OCXO’s, steer that with a DAC output … now you
> > have a WWVB GPSDO.
> >
> > Indeed, if the Teensy needs 28 MHz, then the OCXO will not be quite as
> cheap.
> >
> > Bob
> >
>
> I've tried this - It will run just fine, but *all the UART and USB
> speeds change*.  So, basically, the USB stops working, and you need to
> set your serial port to something like 112.8 * 10/28 (and it takes a bit
> of fiddling to get it to work right)..  I sort of cheated, and switched
> back and forth - signal generator to 28MHz, load and debug software,
> start it, then switch generator to 10 MHz.
>
> And of course, all the functions that are time based, like delay() are
> the wrong length.
>
> One could probably figure out a relatively few patches to the
> Teensyduino code base that would fix all this (clock rate is a variable
> - you can run the teensy at multiple clock rates, even with the same
> crystal)
>
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Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

Looking at the data sheet for the MCU, they really do want 24 MHz and that’s 
about it. I suspect you would 
do better to take your 10 MHz OCXO and run it into one of the frequency 
converter chips to get the 24. 
Then feed that into the board. One more chip, but you now don’t have a bunch of 
stuff to hack up.

Bob

> On Oct 31, 2020, at 7:17 PM, jimlux  wrote:
> 
> On 10/31/20 11:42 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote:
>> Hi
>> …..errr…..
>> Can you pull the clock oscillator off the Teensy board? (Yes, the soldering
>> iron would be involved).
>> Will the clock input to the MCU accept something like 10 MHz? If so solder
>> on a cable ….
>> At that point whatever the Teeny does is locked to the 10 MHz. If that comes
>> from one of the $3 eBay OCXO’s, steer that with a DAC output … now you
>> have a WWVB GPSDO.
>> Indeed, if the Teensy needs 28 MHz, then the OCXO will not be quite as cheap.
>> Bob
> 
> I've tried this - It will run just fine, but *all the UART and USB speeds 
> change*.  So, basically, the USB stops working, and you need to set your 
> serial port to something like 112.8 * 10/28 (and it takes a bit of fiddling 
> to get it to work right)..  I sort of cheated, and switched back and forth - 
> signal generator to 28MHz, load and debug software, start it, then switch 
> generator to 10 MHz.
> 
> And of course, all the functions that are time based, like delay() are the 
> wrong length.
> 
> One could probably figure out a relatively few patches to the Teensyduino 
> code base that would fix all this (clock rate is a variable - you can run the 
> teensy at multiple clock rates, even with the same crystal)
> 
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> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
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Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[jimlux]

On 10/31/20 11:42 AM, Bob kb8tq wrote:

Hi

…..errr…..

Can you pull the clock oscillator off the Teensy board? (Yes, the soldering
iron would be involved).

Will the clock input to the MCU accept something like 10 MHz? If so solder
on a cable ….

At that point whatever the Teeny does is locked to the 10 MHz. If that comes
from one of the $3 eBay OCXO’s, steer that with a DAC output … now you
have a WWVB GPSDO.

Indeed, if the Teensy needs 28 MHz, then the OCXO will not be quite as cheap.

Bob



I've tried this - It will run just fine, but *all the UART and USB 
speeds change*.  So, basically, the USB stops working, and you need to 
set your serial port to something like 112.8 * 10/28 (and it takes a bit 
of fiddling to get it to work right)..  I sort of cheated, and switched 
back and forth - signal generator to 28MHz, load and debug software, 
start it, then switch generator to 10 MHz.


And of course, all the functions that are time based, like delay() are 
the wrong length.


One could probably figure out a relatively few patches to the 
Teensyduino code base that would fix all this (clock rate is a variable 
- you can run the teensy at multiple clock rates, even with the same 
crystal)


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Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[paul swed]

Good suggestions. The Teensy runs at some 580 MHz. I thought on the crystal
I had seen something like 166. These things are seriously small. But the
schematic shows its 24 MHz.
Inside the teensy is a PLL that creates the high speed system clock. So
thats potentially a good answer. Use something like either a 20 or 25 Mhz
vcTCXO as John did in the KD2BD receiver. It will be seriously tough
getting the micro 4 pin crystal out without damaging the board.
Secondary effect will occur by changing the xtal. Such as audio sample
rates. Not sure there are real world effects to really consider.
Time to pull the microscope and see.
Regards
Paul


On Sat, Oct 31, 2020 at 5:55 PM John Ackermann N8UR  wrote:

> Just a thought, Paul --
>
> If the teensy can generate an output that is accurate but jittery, you
> could use a simple PLL to lock a crystal to that with a time constant
> that smooths out the jitter.
>
> John
> 
> On 10/31/20 1:47 PM, paul swed wrote:
> > Hello to the group. Wanted to update the everyone thats interested in
> > what I have learned so far on the Teensy and audio codec. No complete
> > solution yet. Much of my experimentation and knowledge has come from
> Frank
> > and Chris, who built the complete wwvb AM time receiver. In addition
> > and important is Johns KD2DB BPSK receiver. There is a reason this
> matters.
> >
> > The teensy combination is powerful and somewhat easy to use. (Has to be
> for
> > me). So over the week or so it's been getting used to the audio libraries
> > and how pieces are connected in software and then seeing the results. All
> > of the base experiments worked very quickly. Simple things like signal
> > generators, multipliers and filters. Things already accomplished by Chris
> > in the wwvb AM receiver.
> >
> > But the question really is what to accomplish?
> > If its the wwvb bpsk timecode. Simply buy an ES100 and be done.
> >
> > The interest that I have is a locked reference. Minimizing soldering and
> > construction. This is the point things get interesting.
> > A NCO can be created in Teensy but it tends to be low frequency and a
> > multiple of 60 KHz. Stability sort of isn't. But if it could be created
> > then a complete frequency reference in the teensy could be accomplished.
> > That makes for a heck of a low power receiver 1 watt, inexpensive, and
> > little soldering.
> > The above path literally follows the old Spectracoms and Truetime direct
> > conversion receivers.
> > Have to look at their schematics because they do lock a useful reference.
> > But that means something external has to come into the teensy. Get the
> > soldering iron hot.
> >
> > The other approach is essentially Johns KD2BD receiver in software with
> an
> > external reference chain delivering 50KHz and 10 KHz to the teensy. Well
> > this is getting ugly now because that external chain is made up of a
> > classical divider 10 MHz to 50 KHz etc. But does give a very nicely
> locked
> > useful wwvb reference. Its really a hybrid because it significantly
> reduces
> > the soldering required in a true KD2BD receiver but isn't the pure in
> > a chip solution.
> >
> > All of this is just for fun because the fact is the GPDSOs we use are
> > better.
> > If a receiver is built a natural by-product is the time message. Its just
> > not my focus or interest.
> > Much more to learn.
> >
> > Next steps
> > Start to reuse the wwvb teensy AM receiver.
> > Chop out all of the display software. Its all very nice but for me at
> this
> > stage gets in the way of understanding things.
> >
> > With respect to I generation several suggestions have been made. But
> the
> > teensy supports multiple multipliers. Sort of thinking, use the sine
> > wave oscillator and add a 90 degree delay to a second path to a second
> > multiplier. An alternative inject the delay in the wwvb signal also. How
> > fine a delay is a serious question.
> > Much to learn and potholes to fall into.
> > Regards
> > Paul
> > WB8TSL
> > ___
> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> > To unsubscribe, go to
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> > and follow the instructions there.
> >
>
> ___
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> To unsubscribe, go to
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> and follow the instructions there.
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Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[John Ackermann N8UR]

Just a thought, Paul --

If the teensy can generate an output that is accurate but jittery, you 
could use a simple PLL to lock a crystal to that with a time constant 
that smooths out the jitter.


John

On 10/31/20 1:47 PM, paul swed wrote:

Hello to the group. Wanted to update the everyone thats interested in
what I have learned so far on the Teensy and audio codec. No complete
solution yet. Much of my experimentation and knowledge has come from Frank
and Chris, who built the complete wwvb AM time receiver. In addition
and important is Johns KD2DB BPSK receiver. There is a reason this matters.

The teensy combination is powerful and somewhat easy to use. (Has to be for
me). So over the week or so it's been getting used to the audio libraries
and how pieces are connected in software and then seeing the results. All
of the base experiments worked very quickly. Simple things like signal
generators, multipliers and filters. Things already accomplished by Chris
in the wwvb AM receiver.

But the question really is what to accomplish?
If its the wwvb bpsk timecode. Simply buy an ES100 and be done.

The interest that I have is a locked reference. Minimizing soldering and
construction. This is the point things get interesting.
A NCO can be created in Teensy but it tends to be low frequency and a
multiple of 60 KHz. Stability sort of isn't. But if it could be created
then a complete frequency reference in the teensy could be accomplished.
That makes for a heck of a low power receiver 1 watt, inexpensive, and
little soldering.
The above path literally follows the old Spectracoms and Truetime direct
conversion receivers.
Have to look at their schematics because they do lock a useful reference.
But that means something external has to come into the teensy. Get the
soldering iron hot.

The other approach is essentially Johns KD2BD receiver in software with an
external reference chain delivering 50KHz and 10 KHz to the teensy. Well
this is getting ugly now because that external chain is made up of a
classical divider 10 MHz to 50 KHz etc. But does give a very nicely locked
useful wwvb reference. Its really a hybrid because it significantly reduces
the soldering required in a true KD2BD receiver but isn't the pure in
a chip solution.

All of this is just for fun because the fact is the GPDSOs we use are
better.
If a receiver is built a natural by-product is the time message. Its just
not my focus or interest.
Much more to learn.

Next steps
Start to reuse the wwvb teensy AM receiver.
Chop out all of the display software. Its all very nice but for me at this
stage gets in the way of understanding things.

With respect to I generation several suggestions have been made. But the
teensy supports multiple multipliers. Sort of thinking, use the sine
wave oscillator and add a 90 degree delay to a second path to a second
multiplier. An alternative inject the delay in the wwvb signal also. How
fine a delay is a serious question.
Much to learn and potholes to fall into.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
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Re: [time-nuts] WWVB teensy BPSK early experiments

[Bob kb8tq]

Hi

…..errr….. 

Can you pull the clock oscillator off the Teensy board? (Yes, the soldering 
iron would be involved).

Will the clock input to the MCU accept something like 10 MHz? If so solder
on a cable ….

At that point whatever the Teeny does is locked to the 10 MHz. If that comes
from one of the $3 eBay OCXO’s, steer that with a DAC output … now you
have a WWVB GPSDO.

Indeed, if the Teensy needs 28 MHz, then the OCXO will not be quite as cheap.

Bob

> On Oct 31, 2020, at 1:47 PM, paul swed  wrote:
> 
> Hello to the group. Wanted to update the everyone thats interested in
> what I have learned so far on the Teensy and audio codec. No complete
> solution yet. Much of my experimentation and knowledge has come from Frank
> and Chris, who built the complete wwvb AM time receiver. In addition
> and important is Johns KD2DB BPSK receiver. There is a reason this matters.
> 
> The teensy combination is powerful and somewhat easy to use. (Has to be for
> me). So over the week or so it's been getting used to the audio libraries
> and how pieces are connected in software and then seeing the results. All
> of the base experiments worked very quickly. Simple things like signal
> generators, multipliers and filters. Things already accomplished by Chris
> in the wwvb AM receiver.
> 
> But the question really is what to accomplish?
> If its the wwvb bpsk timecode. Simply buy an ES100 and be done.
> 
> The interest that I have is a locked reference. Minimizing soldering and
> construction. This is the point things get interesting.
> A NCO can be created in Teensy but it tends to be low frequency and a
> multiple of 60 KHz. Stability sort of isn't. But if it could be created
> then a complete frequency reference in the teensy could be accomplished.
> That makes for a heck of a low power receiver 1 watt, inexpensive, and
> little soldering.
> The above path literally follows the old Spectracoms and Truetime direct
> conversion receivers.
> Have to look at their schematics because they do lock a useful reference.
> But that means something external has to come into the teensy. Get the
> soldering iron hot.
> 
> The other approach is essentially Johns KD2BD receiver in software with an
> external reference chain delivering 50KHz and 10 KHz to the teensy. Well
> this is getting ugly now because that external chain is made up of a
> classical divider 10 MHz to 50 KHz etc. But does give a very nicely locked
> useful wwvb reference. Its really a hybrid because it significantly reduces
> the soldering required in a true KD2BD receiver but isn't the pure in
> a chip solution.
> 
> All of this is just for fun because the fact is the GPDSOs we use are
> better.
> If a receiver is built a natural by-product is the time message. Its just
> not my focus or interest.
> Much more to learn.
> 
> Next steps
> Start to reuse the wwvb teensy AM receiver.
> Chop out all of the display software. Its all very nice but for me at this
> stage gets in the way of understanding things.
> 
> With respect to I generation several suggestions have been made. But the
> teensy supports multiple multipliers. Sort of thinking, use the sine
> wave oscillator and add a 90 degree delay to a second path to a second
> multiplier. An alternative inject the delay in the wwvb signal also. How
> fine a delay is a serious question.
> Much to learn and potholes to fall into.
> Regards
> Paul
> WB8TSL
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to 
> http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
> and follow the instructions there.


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