Re:[tips] A Doctor in Iraq
Michael Smith writes: >It seems to me the "possibility" of the poor young woman >being forced to marry against her will is rather being almost >forcefully insisted upon by Allen with no evidence whatsoever. The words I used in criticizing Dr Afkhani’s article were that (given his psychological viewpoint) he failed to mention that the young woman’s symptoms “may possibly relate to…”, and that he failed to “even touch on the possibility" of, reluctance on the part of the young woman to marry a relative chosen for her as determined by her father. I think it is evident that I was raising it as a possibility that should have been considered by Dr Afkhani, not “almost forcefully insisting” that this was the case. Michael suggests that what I wrote was: >Another example of American cultural insensitivity? Interesting comment, given that I linked to a Kurdish Women’s Rights organisation campaigning against quite common extreme violence against Kurdish young women who fail to conform to the cultural norms expected of them in Kurdish Iraq: http://www.kwrw.org/ And was it an example of cultural insensitivity when I wrote: “I’m not saying that Dr Afkhani should have advocated that the Kurdish healer should have necessarily delved into her situation to find out exactly what was at the root of her anxieties. Unfortunately in such traditional patriarchal societies a young woman who openly rebelled against being forced to marry against her wishes (if such were the case here) might find life virtually impossible, and coming to terms with her situation could be making the best of a bad situation.” Allen Esterson Former lecturer, Science Department Southwark College, London allenester...@compuserve.com http://www.esterson.org - From: Michael Smith Subject:Re: A Doctor in Iraq Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 21:35:40 -0600 It seems to me the "possibility" of the poor young woman being forced to marry against her will is rather being almost forcefully insisted upon by Allen with no evidence whatsoever. Another example of American cultural insensitivity? From: Jim Clark Subject:Re: A Doctor in Iraq Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 22:01:19 -0600 Hi I believe you would have to say "British cultural insensitivity" in Allen's case, although generally it does seem common to lump all those Eurocentric types together. As for the question of "being forced into marriage" as a possible explanation for the girl's distress, personally I would tend to give it greater credence than demonic possession, even absent evidence in this specific case, much as I would be more likely to attribute someone having the sniffles to a cold, sadness, and the like rather than a spirit trying to find its way out the nose. Not all hypotheses are created equal. And it hardly seems like much of a stretch, given widespread concern about forcing girls into marriage and related acts among certain cultural groups, and the dire consequences for girls who resist. Following article describes problem in UK, for example. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/mar/11/forcedmarriageswhocounts The article and subsequent discussion makes clear that getting firm figures on the extent of the problem, even in the UK, is a real challenge. Imagine how much more challenging to get sound information in Iraq and other middle eastern countries, especially in rural areas. Take care Jim James M. Clark Professor of Psychology 204-786-9757 204-774-4134 Fax j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5&n=T&l=tips&o=7567 or send a blank email to leave-7567-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
Re: [tips] A Doctor in Iraq
Hi I believe you would have to say "British cultural insensitivity" in Allen's case, although generally it does seem common to lump all those Eurocentric types together. As for the question of "being forced into marriage" as a possible explanation for the girl's distress, personally I would tend to give it greater credence than demonic possession, even absent evidence in this specific case, much as I would be more likely to attribute someone having the sniffles to a cold, sadness, and the like rather than a spirit trying to find its way out the nose. Not all hypotheses are created equal. And it hardly seems like much of a stretch, given widespread concern about forcing girls into marriage and related acts among certain cultural groups, and the dire consequences for girls who resist. Following article describes problem in UK, for example. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/mar/11/forcedmarriageswhocounts The article and subsequent discussion makes clear that getting firm figures on the extent of the problem, even in the UK, is a real challenge. Imagine how much more challenging to get sound information in Iraq and other middle eastern countries, especially in rural areas. Take care Jim James M. Clark Professor of Psychology 204-786-9757 204-774-4134 Fax j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca >>> Michael Smith 30-Dec-10 9:35:40 PM >>> It seems to me the "possibility" of the poor young woman being forced to marry against her will is rather being almost forcefully insisted upon by Allen with no evidence whatsoever. Another example of American cultural insensitivity? --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13251.645f86b5cec4da0a56ffea7a891720c9&n=T&l=tips&o=7561 or send a blank email to leave-7561-13251.645f86b5cec4da0a56ffea7a89172...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5&n=T&l=tips&o=7562 or send a blank email to leave-7562-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
Re: [tips] A Doctor in Iraq
It seems to me the "possibility" of the poor young woman being forced to marry against her will is rather being almost forcefully insisted upon by Allen with no evidence whatsoever. Another example of American cultural insensitivity? --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5&n=T&l=tips&o=7561 or send a blank email to leave-7561-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
RE: [tips] Avatar Movie and Stereotypes
On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 13:39:23 -0800, Dr. Bob Wildblood wrote: >I believe that the answer to the question, When will white people stop >making pictures like Avatar is, when we don't have to make pictures >like Avatar any more. I'm not sure I know what this means. Let me substitute the name of another movie for Avatar: I believe that the answer to the question, When will white people stop making pictures like "Birth of a Nation" is, when we don't have to make pictures like "Birth of a Nation" any more. There are two ways to interpret the statement with "Birth of a Nation" in it: (1) Films like "Birth of a Nation" won't have to be made after the White race is once again lord and master over the inferior races. Everyone will know the correct history of the U.S. (or the Confederate States of America) then. (2) Films like "Birth of a Nation" won't have to be made after true equality among the races and other groups of people is attained. Everyone will know the correct history of the U.S. then. There are some people who will think that statement (1) is the correct interpretation while others will think that it is statement (2). So, pardon my confusion, but under what conditions will a film like Avatar will no longer have to be made? >I'm sure that some people watch these movies >and seem them merely as entertainment, but I see a reflection of what >is really going on in this country and in the rest of the world. I bet that people who watched "Birth of a Nation", a very popular film in its time, thought the same thing. >Often in situations where there is an oppressed people who have been >exploited by a "conquering horde" a person who is a member of the >conquering horde steps up and makes a difference. Maybe in the movies but not often in real life. Again, not to kick a dead horse when it's down, consider the view of Avatar suggested by a couple of sociologists; see: http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/12/28/on-avatar-the-movie-spoiler-alert/ >As an example, no matter whether the actions were always the most >admirable, does anyone remember Charlie Wilson. For those who don't, >from Wikipedia (yadda, yadda) the following: [snip] >And they also made a movie about him. The movie "Charlie Wilson's War" was directed by Mike Nichols (which means that it should have be automatically seen by a certain segment of the American public), starred Tom Hanks as CharlieWilson, Julia Roberts as a Jesus freak intending to save the people of Afghanistan, and Philip Seymor Hoffman as a CIA spook named Gust Avrakotos (not to mention an exceedly cute Amy Adams who knows how to swing a mean pony tail). It is a story of how Charlie Wilson managed to get the C.I.A. to fund arming the Afghans with weapons they needed to defeat the U.S.S.R. The amounts he was able to get was in the hundreds of millions. Once the U.S.S.R. was out of Afghanistan, Wilson could not get a couple of million bucks to build schools or the infrastructure that was destroyed in the war with the U.S.S.R. The mujahideen who fought the U.S.S.R. eventually evolved into the Taliban which in turn would bring in Osama bin Ladin and we all know where things went from there. For more on the movie and associated background, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Wilson%27s_War Note: I was really surprised by the beginning when Hanks/Wilson joins friends in a hot tub in Vegas and two hot topless dancers also join in. I always wondered how they were going to show that on "ordinary" TV. It is worth noting the story that Gust tells Charlie about the "Zen master". It is quoted on the www.imdb.com website for the movie: |Gust Avrakotos: There's a little boy and on his 14th birthday he gets |a horse... and everybody in the village says, "how wonderful. The boy |got a horse" And the Zen master says, "we'll see." Two years later, the |boy falls off the horse, breaks his leg, and everyone in the village says, |"How terrible." And the Zen master says, "We'll see." Then, a war |breaks out and all the young men have to go off and fight... except the |boy can't cause his legs all messed up. and everybody in the village says, |"How wonderful." | |Charlie Wilson: Now the Zen master says, "We'll see." http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0472062/quotes So, returning to a statement that was made at the beginning of this post: >Often in situations where there is an oppressed people who have been >exploited by a "conquering horde" a person who is a member of the >conquering horde steps up and makes a difference. And what effect will this have? "We'll see." -Mike Palij New York University m...@nyu.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5&n=T&l=tips&o=7560 or send a blank email to leave-7560-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
RE: [tips] Avatar Movie and Stereotypes
I believe that the answer to the question, When will white people stop making pictures like Avatar is, when we don't have to make pictures like Avatar any more. I'm sure that some people watch these movies and seem them merely as entertainment, but I see a reflection of what is really going on in this country and in the rest of the world. Often in situations where there is an oppressed people who have been exploited by a "conquering horde" a person who is a member of the conquering horde steps up and makes a difference. As an example, no matter whether the actions were always the most admirable, does anyone remember Charlie Wilson. For those who don't, from Wikipedia (yadda, yadda) the following: Charles "Charlie" Nesbitt Wilson (June 1, 1933 – February 10, 2010) was a United States naval officer and former 12-term Democratic United States Representative from the 2nd congressional district in Texas. He was best known for leading Congress into supporting Operation Cyclone, the largest-ever Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) covert operation, which under the Reagan administration supplied military equipment, including anti-aircraft weapons such as Stinger antiaircraft missiles, and paramilitary officers from their Special Activities Division to the Afghan Mujahideen during the Soviet war in Afghanistan. His behind-the-scenes campaign was the subject of the non-fiction book Charlie Wilson's War by George Crile and a subsequent film adaptation starring Tom Hanks as Wilson. And they also made a movie about him. . Robert W. Wildblood, PhD Adjunct Psychology Faculty Germanna Community College drb...@rcn.com --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5&n=T&l=tips&o=7559 or send a blank email to leave-7559-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
RE: [tips] Avatar Movie and Stereotypes
On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 09:24:56 -0800, Tim Shearon wrote: >Bob Wildbood said: " As the beloved Bobby Burns said, 'Wad >Power but hae the gift to gie us, to see oursels as ithers see us.' >I think that Avatar gives us that gift.' > >Exactly the filmmaker's point- at least that is what they often say. >But I see Michael's point as well- couldn't they put just a *little* >ambiguity or complexity in there! The criticism I had of Dances >With Wolves II, [snip] Just to develip the last point that Tim Shearon touches on, here is a review that take Avatar to task for using a formulaic approach to the racial issues implicit in the movie; see: http://io9.com/5422666/when-will-white-people-stop-making-movies-like-avatar?skyline=true&s=x Read the comments as well because they are interesting for what they have to say about Avatar and the process of making a hit movie. On the point of having White people go "native" and become the hero of the "native" people, consider this comment by "Zenpoet": |I don't remember the comedian who said it, but it really pointed out |this very idea to me. I don't remember the beginning of the joke, but |his punchline was something to the effect of "coming this fall, |"The Last N*gger on Earth, starring Tom Hanks." | |As a mid-west white guy, I hadn't really noticed this phenominon. |Now that I look back, its crazy how many movies/books are like this. |Last of the Mohicans, the Last Samurai, Dances With Wolves, etc... |Its disappointing really However, there are some surprises to be found in Avatar -- consider the viewpoint expressed in this paper: http://www.inter-disciplinary.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/mirallespaper.pdf Though the surprise may not be what we expect (which, of course, makes it a surprise). It pays to remember that "Hollywood" movies, of which Avatar is a classic example, are products that are supposed to make money. Making a movie that makes money or becomes a blockbuster is an art and few people know know to do so more or less consistently -- James Cameron is part of this group. Using stereotypes is part of the process (NOTE: do we need to be reminded that people who have stereotypes in their minds engage in automatic processing of stereotypical stimuli, thus making following a film or story easier because the processing is less demanding; a non-stereotypical character, situation, or plot makes one engage in controlled processing, making the following of a movie harder and perhaps unplesant for some people -- perhaps someone should do some "need for cognition" research on movies that use stereotypes versus movies that don't or violate stereotypes). -Mike Palij New York University m...@nyu.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5&n=T&l=tips&o=7557 or send a blank email to leave-7557-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
RE: [tips] Avatar Movie and Stereotypes
Bob Wildbood said: " As the beloved Bobby Burns said, 'Wad Power but hae the gift to gie us, to see oursels as ithers see us.' I think that Avatar gives us that gift.' Exactly the filmmaker's point- at least that is what they often say. But I see Michael's point as well- couldn't they put just a *little* ambiguity or complexity in there! The criticism I had of Dances With Wolves II, I mean Avatar, and the one my student's saw, was the over-simplification Michael points to - of course they recognized it as a device- In the defense of creative folk, this is a very common literary and film practice to quickly establish a character by making them fit a stereotypes. Which, of course, often translates to "spend all my time and effort rendering weapons and creatures on the tree trunks rather than on developing complex or ambiguous characters". . . But we have to remember that films are also evaluated on whether the story fits together and introducing ambiguous characters and making us think might well just make it more and more complex and less fluid till finally the story gets lost- and apparently that happens quite easily. I do agree that such movies can seem to become interchangeable after a while. Not having made films or, therefore, any of these decisions I can understand why they tend to "take the easy way out" more times than not. But, yes. The familiarity of this or similar movies does provide a teaching or discussion device. I do think that this "moment" may get lost in some students who defend the creative decisions etc. rather than engaging the topic you wish them to discuss so I don't think I would tend to use it for that purpose. :) Perhaps the effectiveness of doing this would depend, as it usually does, on how well we developed the exercise, the class itself, professorial style, etc. Tim ___ Timothy O. Shearon, PhD Professor, Department of Psychology The College of Idaho Caldwell, ID 83605 email: tshea...@collegeofidaho.edu teaching: intro to neuropsychology; psychopharmacology; general; history and systems "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." Dorothy Parker --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5&n=T&l=tips&o=7555 or send a blank email to leave-7555-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
[tips] Voodoo doctor in Haiti
Never mind a doctor in Iraq,healing is an essential characteristic of the Voodoo sciences. Michael "omnicentric" Sylvester,PhD Daytona Beach,Florida --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5&n=T&l=tips&o=7554 or send a blank email to leave-7554-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
Re: [tips] Avatar Movie and Stereotypes
Much of what Michael said about Avatar was true (see below if you haven't read
it and are interested), and I believe that it was all intentional to make a
point. We are a country in which many are filled with prejudice and fear of
those who are different, and we are often very likely to exploit those who have
something that we believe we need to have in order to make a large profit
(e.g., the fact that we think that it is better to exploit the limited oil
reserves that we have so that oil companies can make huge profits rather than
to spend money on establishing a reasonable alternative). So I see Avatar a
relatively accurate picture of how others around the world see us as a country,
and many of the stereotypes are more true than we would like them to be.
Remember too, that there were two marines who didn't fit the stereotype, Jake
and Trudy. As the beloved Bobby Burns said, "Wad Power but hae the gift to gie
us, to see oursels as ithers see us." I think that Avatar gives!
us that gift.
Michael Britt wrote:
>
> When Avatar first came out it was clear that the
> movie contained some stereotypes, but now that I've
> watched it umpteen times with my kids I've come to
> dislike the movie more and more because I'm seeing
Here's
> what I see:
> 1. The scientists are all (except perhaps Sigourney
> Weaver) geeky
> 2. The military are all beefy ("jarheads")
> 3. The soldiers are depicted as not only ignorant of
> the culture of the Na'vi, but also uncaring and
> dismissive of it. I know that there was an
> element of this in the US invasion of Iraq, but
> still, can't one military person show some
> concern/interest about the natives of the planet
> aside from our hero?
> 4. Speaking of "natives" - It would be an
> interesting exercise to list all the pejorative
> terms the military use toward the Na'vi during
> the movie ("blue monkeys" comes to mind)
> 5. The corporate guy is depicted as your typical
> stereotype of a corporate guy - concerned only
> with money, equally dismissive of the Na'vi
> 6. I agree with those critics who have criticized
> the whole theme of "white guy comes in to save
> the day for the natives, who are not capable of
> helping themselves"
> 7. The Colonel of the military isn't just the worst
> offender of the stereotypes - he is a really,
> really mean guy. Why is he given so many
> opportunities throughout the film to show
> exactly how mean he is? What in the world
> drives such a mean person? Character
> development is not something this movie gives a
> whole lot of time to.
.
Robert W. Wildblood, PhD
Adjunct Psychology Faculty
Germanna Community College
drb...@rcn.com
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[tips] Avatar Movie and Stereotypes
When Avatar first came out it was clear that the movie contained some
stereotypes, but now that I've watched it umpteen times with my kids I've come
to dislike the movie more and more because I'm seeing more stereotypes with
each viewing. Since so many students have seen the movie maybe Avatar would
make for a good class discussion on this topic. Here's what I see:
The scientists are all (except perhaps Sigourney Weaver) geeky
The military are all beefy ("jarheads")
The soldiers are depicted as not only ignorant of the culture of the Na'vi, but
also uncaring and dismissive of it. I know that there was an element of this
in the US invasion of Iraq, but still, can't one military person show some
concern/interest about the natives of the planet aside from our hero?
Speaking of "natives" - It would be an interesting exercise to list all the
pejorative terms the military use toward the Na'vi during the movie ("blue
monkeys" comes to mind)
The corporate guy is depicted as your typical stereotype of a corporate guy -
concerned only with money, equally dismissive of the Na'vi
I agree with those critics who have criticized the whole theme of "white guy
comes in to save the day for the natives, who are not capable of helping
themselves"
The Colonel of the military isn't just the worst offender of the stereotypes -
he is a really, really mean guy. Why is he given so many opportunities
throughout the film to show exactly how mean he is? What in the world drives
such a mean person? Character development is not something this movie gives a
whole lot of time to.
Michael
Michael A. Britt, Ph.D.
mich...@thepsychfiles.com
http://www.ThePsychFiles.com
Twitter: mbritt
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Re:[tips] A Doctor in Iraq
With reference to the article "A Doctor in Iraq, Watching a Faith
Healer at Work"
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/28/health/28cases.html?_r=2:
Stephen writes:
>I think Allen may be coming down a bit too
>hard on Dr. Afkhami [who writes]:
>That disorder is well known to mental health professionals:
>once termed hysteria, it is usually touched off or worsened
>by a well-defined stressor like an engagement."
My first reaction was to think that there was some validity in
Stephen’s point, but on further thought I’m not so sure. All Dr Afkhani
is referring to here is the stress and possible anxieties that may
arise when a young person becomes engaged to be married, which
possibility is universal. But my point was that he failed to even touch
on the possibility that at least part of the young woman’s fears may be
associated with being reluctant to marry a relative chosen for her as
determined by her father.
I’m not saying that Dr Afkhani should have advocated that the Kurdish
healer should have necessarily delved into her situation to find out
exactly what was at the root of her anxieties. Unfortunately in such
traditional patriarchal societies a young woman who openly rebelled
against being forced to marry against her wishes (if such were the case
here) might find life virtually impossible, and coming to terms with
her situation could be making the best of a bad situation. In fact
rebellion could cost a young woman her life if she went against Kurdish
tradition, as this UN human rights report in November 2010 shows:
“Eliminating gender-based violence in Kurdistan, the conservative
northern region of Iraq where ‘honour’-based killings are still common,
remains a battle.”
http://www.irinnews.org/Report.aspx?ReportID=91216
Given this background, I still find it disturbing that an article in
the New York Times should recount the situation of a young Iraqi
Kurdish woman in the terms described not only without raising the
possibility that she was being forced into a marriage she didn’t want,
but even hailing the healer’s treatment of the woman as an example of
“patient-centered care”. And I suspect that this Kurdish Women’s Rights
organisation would not be happy either:
http://www.kwrw.org/
Allen Esterson
Former lecturer, Science Department
Southwark College, London
allenester...@compuserve.com
http://www.esterson.org
--
From: sbl...@ubishops.ca
Subject: Re: A Doctor in Iraq
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2010 16:50:26 -0500
On 29 Dec 2010 at 14:22, Allen Esterson wrote:
> There´s an extraordinary article that was published in the 28
December
> issue of the New York Times:
> "A Doctor in Iraq, Watching a Faith Healer at Work"
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/28/health/28cases.html?_r=2
Interesting article. But I think Allen may be coming down a bit too
hard on Dr. Afkhami. Allen says:
> Nowhere in the article is there a glimmer of a suggestion that the
> young woman´s symptoms may just possibly relate to her being
> reluctantly forced into a marriage with a relative. Instead Dr
Afkhami
> applauds the techniques used to quieten her fears:
Afkhami does say:
---
"my Iraqi colleague leaned over and whispered a diagnosis in my ear:
"conversion disorder."
That disorder is well known to mental health professionals: once
termed hysteria, it is usually touched off or worsened by a well-
defined stressor like an engagement "
--
I would call that, although not a laser beam directed at the issue,
at least a glimmer of a suggestion that the condition was brought
about by a stressful engagement.
The problem for Afkhami and for Mullah Eskandar is that they are
trapped by their different cultural worldviews. Afkhami sees
everything through the filter of psychoanalysis, which is notorious
for ignoring an obvious environmental cause of a problem, and going
for the alleged "deep-seated", buried one. An example would be
ignoring a medical cause of crippling dystonia, and going instead for
a fanciful interpretation of the hidden meaning of such symptoms
(true case).
Mullah Eskandar (and possibly Afkhami also) would have difficulty in
recognizing that a marriage match sanctioned by the families could be
a source of distress to the prospective bride. Did she not agree to
be married? Much easier to blame a jinn, which, as Afkahami noted,
"shifted responsibility from her to a supernatural being".
The question is: Are there similar examples in Western medicine?
Suppose a married woman sees a doctor because of panic attacks
relating to fear of intercourse ("frigidity"). She could avoid the
attacks by not having sex. But in Western culture, this is not an
option which a medical doctor or a clinical psychologist is likely to
offer. So they look for a physical cause or deep-seated psychological
one based on early childhood experiences. The latter is the
equivalent of the jinn theory.
Stephen
