Re: [tips] Data usage

2011-02-24 Thread Carol DeVolder
I'm so sick of hearing "myself" used inappropriately I could scream.


On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 9:41 AM, David Hogberg  wrote:

>
> Along those lines, "between you and I . . . " ought to be right up there,
> too.
>
> On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 10:36 AM,  wrote:
>
>> On 24 Feb 2011 at 10:26, Annette Taylor wrote:
>>
>> > Most people can'tuse "I" versus "me" correctly, including most
>> > academics:
>> >
>> > My student and me...went to a conference.
>> >
>> > Susie and me... saw that new movie.
>> >
>>
>> No, no, Annette, I think you've got it backward. The uneducated
>> nature of using "me" as the subject is well-known, even to the
>> uneducated, and only Cookie Monster still uses it (if even he does
>> now).  Most people are so afraid of making that mistake that they
>> overcorrect and avoid using "me" under any circumstances.
>>
>> For example "The waiter served my friend and I lunch"; "That new
>> movie was seen by Susie and I".
>>
>> Now that bugs me.
>>
>> 
>> Stephen L. Black, Ph.D.
>> Professor of Psychology, Emeritus
>> Bishop's University
>> Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada
>> e-mail:  sblack at ubishops.ca
>> -
>>
>> ---
>> You are currently subscribed to tips as: dhogb...@albion.edu.
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>
>
>
> --
> David K. Hogberg, PhD
> Professor of Psychology, Emeritus
> Department of Psychological Science
> Albion College
> Albion MI 49224
>
> Tel: 517/629-4834, Mobile: 517/262-1277
>
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-- 
Carol DeVolder, Ph.D.
Professor and Chair, Department of Psychology
St. Ambrose University
518 West Locust Street
Davenport, Iowa  52803
563-333-6482

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RE: [tips] Data usage

2011-02-24 Thread Dr. Bob Wildblood
Marc Carter said:


>   Me too.
>
>   In fact what has happened is that it's bleeding over
>   into other plural nouns, and I'm starting to
>   inadvertently say things like "the faculty are..."
>   -- people are looking at me funny.
>

Sounds rather British to me, and they seem to be happy with it. Could it be ... 
Ethnocentrism?

.
Robert W. Wildblood, PhD
Adjunct Psychology Faculty
Germanna Community College
drb...@rcn.com  

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Re: [tips] Data usage

2011-02-24 Thread David Hogberg
Along those lines, "between you and I . . . " ought to be right up there,
too.

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 10:36 AM,  wrote:

> On 24 Feb 2011 at 10:26, Annette Taylor wrote:
>
> > Most people can'tuse "I" versus "me" correctly, including most
> > academics:
> >
> > My student and me...went to a conference.
> >
> > Susie and me... saw that new movie.
> >
>
> No, no, Annette, I think you've got it backward. The uneducated
> nature of using "me" as the subject is well-known, even to the
> uneducated, and only Cookie Monster still uses it (if even he does
> now).  Most people are so afraid of making that mistake that they
> overcorrect and avoid using "me" under any circumstances.
>
> For example "The waiter served my friend and I lunch"; "That new
> movie was seen by Susie and I".
>
> Now that bugs me.
>
> 
> Stephen L. Black, Ph.D.
> Professor of Psychology, Emeritus
> Bishop's University
> Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada
> e-mail:  sblack at ubishops.ca
> -
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to tips as: dhogb...@albion.edu.
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-- 
David K. Hogberg, PhD
Professor of Psychology, Emeritus
Department of Psychological Science
Albion College
Albion MI 49224

Tel: 517/629-4834, Mobile: 517/262-1277

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Re: [tips] Data usage

2011-02-24 Thread sblack
On 24 Feb 2011 at 10:26, Annette Taylor wrote:
 
> Most people can'tuse "I" versus "me" correctly, including most 
> academics:
> 
> My student and me...went to a conference.
> 
> Susie and me... saw that new movie.
>

No, no, Annette, I think you've got it backward. The uneducated 
nature of using "me" as the subject is well-known, even to the 
uneducated, and only Cookie Monster still uses it (if even he does 
now).  Most people are so afraid of making that mistake that they 
overcorrect and avoid using "me" under any circumstances.

For example "The waiter served my friend and I lunch"; "That new 
movie was seen by Susie and I".

Now that bugs me.


Stephen L. Black, Ph.D.  
Professor of Psychology, Emeritus   
Bishop's University
Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada   
e-mail:  sblack at ubishops.ca
-

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RE:[tips] Data usage

2011-02-24 Thread Annette Taylor
Most people can't use "I"  versus "me" correctly, including most academics:

My student and me...went to a conference.

Susie and me... saw that new movie.

UGH!

For most people in America English is their only language, yet they can hardly 
ever speak it grammatically correctly.

Of course, having added to this rant, I now have to watch what I post here. 
YIKES!

Annette

Annette Kujawski Taylor, Ph. D.
Professor, Psychological Sciences
University of San Diego
5998 Alcala Park
San Diego, CA 92110
tay...@sandiego.edu<mailto:tay...@sandiego.edu>

From: Helweg-Larsen, Marie [helw...@dickinson.edu]
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 5:38 AM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)
Subject: RE:[tips] Data usage




It also doesn’t help that it says on all the fast checkout lanes in Walmart: 
less than 10 items.
Marie


Marie Helweg-Larsen, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Psychology
Danish Institute for Study Abroad (DIS), +45 2065 1360
Dickinson College (on leave 2010/2011)
http://users.dickinson.edu/~helwegm/index.html


From: Pollak, Edward [mailto:epol...@wcupa.edu]
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 14:32
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)
Subject: [tips] Data usage





Claudia Stanny wrote: “Speaking for myself, reading "the data is" makes me 
cringe, grind my teeth, and reach for a very sharp red pencil! ………  When I read 
"data" a part of me always substitutes words like numbers, observations, 
findings.”



Claudia, is it possible that you are a long lost sister of mine? Our 
grammatical sensitivities seem to be identical..   Let’s check this hypothesis 
of grammatical kinship with one more pet peeve: It annoys me no end when 
someone says e.g.,  “less people buy American-made cars.”   To my mind, it 
should be “fewer people.” If the referent occurs in discrete units (e.g., 
people, cars, trees, doillars, etc.) you use the adjective “fewer.” But if the 
referent is a more general concept or continuous, less discrete you use the 
word (water, forest, money) “less.”  So there are fewer trees and there may be 
less forested land. There are more people chasing fewer dollars but more people 
chasing less capital.



This seems obvious to me but it is so often breached that I’m beginning to 
question myself. It’s so common to have a colleague say “I have less students 
in my class this semester.” Or a newscaster says “The U.S. sold less cars this 
year.” This jars my grammatical sensibilities. So.. am I the only one who 
gets irked by this issue? Surely my purported grammatical soul mate, Claudia 
must have the same reaction.



Ed


Edward I. Pollak, Ph.D.
Department of Psychology
West Chester University of Pennsylvania
Office hours: Mondays noon-2 & 3-4; Tuesdays & Thursdays 8-9:15 & 12:30-2
http://home.comcast.net/~epollak/home.htm

Husband, father, grandfather, biopsychologist, & bluegrass fiddler.. in 
approximate order of importance.


From: Claudia Stanny mailto:csta...@uwf.edu>>



Speaking for myself, reading "the data is" makes me cringe, grind my teeth,

and reach for a very sharp red pencil!   :-)



[just recently finished editing a slew of "data  is" constructions to "data 
 are" in a colleague's prose] When I read "data" a part of me always 
substitutes words like numbers, observations, findings.  All plural (so far).





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Re: [tips] Data usage

2011-02-24 Thread sblack
On 24 Feb 2011 at 8:38, Helweg-Larsen, Marie wrote:
 
> It also doesn´t help that it says on all the fast checkout lanes
> in Walmart: less than 10 items. 

OK, if we're onto pet peeves, I have to mention two which no one 
seems to care about. The first is "in harm's way". Why use the 
pedestrian term "in danger" when you can so tritely personify it? I'm 
afraid that "in danger" has been put in harm's way and is likely to 
die out entirely.

Second is the misuse of "literally", and let me count the ways.  It 
seems now to mean merely "very" rather than to clarify an ambiguity 
between the actual and the metaphoric. Consider "I literally went 
into therapy".  Ponder "I literally jumped out of my skin". 

As for my original post on Michael Quinion, a respected authority on 
language,  who dared to use "data" in the singular, note that he 
defended himself by claiming that this is current "British non-
specialist usage". It would not, of course, get past APA, so my 
question was rhetorical, but language usage does change. Nowadays, it 
seems pedantic to me to maintain the distinction in conversation and 
in informal writing. But we can continue to cudgel students about it. 

(Actually Google's Ngram doesn't support part of my rant. It shows a 
steady decline in the use of "in danger" from 1800 to about 1940, 
when it bottoms out (with the hint of a small recovery just recently) 
So there seems to be no recent threat to its use. "In harm's way" is 
at much lower frequency, but does appear to have  exploded in usage 
around 1990 (although it may now be falling back from its peak, which 
is encouraging). 

Stephen

Stephen L. Black, Ph.D.  
Professor of Psychology, Emeritus   
Bishop's University
Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada   
e-mail:  sblack at ubishops.ca
-

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RE: [tips] Data usage

2011-02-24 Thread Marc Carter

Me too.

In fact what has happened is that it's bleeding over into other plural nouns, 
and I'm starting to inadvertently say things like "the faculty are..." -- 
people are looking at me funny.

m

--
Marc Carter, PhD
Associate Professor and Chair
Department of Psychology
College of Arts & Sciences
Baker University
--




From: Steven Specht [mailto:sspe...@utica.edu]
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 8:22 AM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)
Subject: Re: [tips] Data usage




I'm with you both!





Steven M. Specht, Ph.D.

Professor of Psychology

Department of Psychology

Utica College

Utica, NY 13502

(315) 792-3171

monkeybrain-collagist.blogspot.com<http://monkeybrain-collagist.blogspot.com>


"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and 
convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."

Martin Luther King Jr.

On Feb 24, 2011, at 8:32 AM, Pollak, Edward wrote:




Claudia Stanny wrote: "Speaking for myself, reading "the data is" makes me 
cringe, grind my teeth, and reach for a very sharp red pencil! .  When 
I read "data" a part of me always substitutes words like numbers, observations, 
findings."
Claudia, is it possible that you are a long lost sister of mine? Our 
grammatical sensitivities seem to be identical..   Let's check this hypothesis 
of grammatical kinship with one more pet peeve: It annoys me no end when 
someone says e.g.,  "less people buy American-made cars."   To my mind, it 
should be "fewer people." If the referent occurs in discrete units (e.g., 
people, cars, trees, doillars, etc.) you use the adjective "fewer." But if the 
referent is a more general concept or continuous, less discrete you use the 
word (water, forest, money) "less."  So there are fewer trees and there may be 
less forested land. There are more people chasing fewer dollars but more people 
chasing less capital.
This seems obvious to me but it is so often breached that I'm beginning to 
question myself. It's so common to have a colleague say "I have less students 
in my class this semester." Or a newscaster says "The U.S. sold less cars this 
year." This jars my grammatical sensibilities. So.. am I the only 
one who gets irked by this issue? Surely my purported grammatical soul mate, 
Claudia must have the same reaction.
Ed
Edward I. Pollak, Ph.D.
Department of Psychology
West Chester University of Pennsylvania
Office hours: Mondays noon-2 & 3-4; Tuesdays & Thursdays 8-9:15 & 12:30-2
http://home.comcast.net/~epollak/home.htm

Husband, father, grandfather, biopsychologist, & bluegrass fiddler.. in 
approximate order of importance.
From: Claudia Stanny mailto:csta...@uwf.edu>>
Speaking for myself, reading "the data is" makes me cringe, grind my teeth,
and reach for a very sharp red pencil!   :-)
[just recently finished editing a slew of "data  is" constructions to "data 
 are" in a colleague's prose] When I read "data" a part of me always 
substitutes words like numbers, observations, findings.  All plural (so far).


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Re: [tips] Data usage

2011-02-24 Thread Steven Specht
I'm with you both!



Steven M. Specht, Ph.D.
Professor of Psychology
Department of Psychology
Utica College
Utica, NY 13502
(315) 792-3171
monkeybrain-collagist.blogspot.com

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and 
convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."
Martin Luther King Jr.

On Feb 24, 2011, at 8:32 AM, Pollak, Edward wrote:

>  
> 
> Claudia Stanny wrote: “Speaking for myself, reading "the data is" makes me 
> cringe, grind my teeth, and reach for a very sharp red pencil! ………  When I 
> read "data" a part of me always substitutes words like numbers, observations, 
> findings.”
>  
> Claudia, is it possible that you are a long lost sister of mine? Our 
> grammatical sensitivities seem to be identical..   Let’s check this 
> hypothesis of grammatical kinship with one more pet peeve: It annoys me no 
> end when someone says e.g.,  “less people buy American-made cars.”   To my 
> mind, it should be “fewer people.” If the referent occurs in discrete units 
> (e.g., people, cars, trees, doillars, etc.) you use the adjective “fewer.” 
> But if the referent is a more general concept or continuous, less discrete 
> you use the word (water, forest, money) “less.”  So there are fewer trees and 
> there may be less forested land. There are more people chasing fewer dollars 
> but more people chasing less capital.
>  
> This seems obvious to me but it is so often breached that I’m beginning to 
> question myself. It’s so common to have a colleague say “I have less students 
> in my class this semester.” Or a newscaster says “The U.S. sold less cars 
> this year.” This jars my grammatical sensibilities. So.. am I the only 
> one who gets irked by this issue? Surely my purported grammatical soul mate, 
> Claudia must have the same reaction.
>  
> Ed
>  
>  
> Edward I. Pollak, Ph.D.
> Department of Psychology
> West Chester University of Pennsylvania
> Office hours: Mondays noon-2 & 3-4; Tuesdays & Thursdays 8-9:15 & 12:30-2
> http://home.comcast.net/~epollak/home.htm
> 
> Husband, father, grandfather, biopsychologist, & bluegrass fiddler.. in 
> approximate order of importance.
>  
> From: Claudia Stanny 
>  
> Speaking for myself, reading "the data is" makes me cringe, grind my teeth,
> and reach for a very sharp red pencil!   :-)
>  
> [just recently finished editing a slew of "data  is" constructions to 
> "data  are" in a colleague's prose] When I read "data" a part of me 
> always substitutes words like numbers, observations, findings.  All plural 
> (so far).
>  
>  
>  
> 
> ---
> 
> You are currently subscribed to tips as: sspe...@utica.edu.
> 
> To unsubscribe click here: 
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RE:[tips] Data usage

2011-02-24 Thread Helweg-Larsen, Marie
It also doesn't help that it says on all the fast checkout lanes in Walmart: 
less than 10 items.
Marie


Marie Helweg-Larsen, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Psychology
Danish Institute for Study Abroad (DIS), +45 2065 1360
Dickinson College (on leave 2010/2011)
http://users.dickinson.edu/~helwegm/index.html


From: Pollak, Edward [mailto:epol...@wcupa.edu]
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 14:32
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS)
Subject: [tips] Data usage





Claudia Stanny wrote: "Speaking for myself, reading "the data is" makes me 
cringe, grind my teeth, and reach for a very sharp red pencil! .  When 
I read "data" a part of me always substitutes words like numbers, observations, 
findings."



Claudia, is it possible that you are a long lost sister of mine? Our 
grammatical sensitivities seem to be identical..   Let's check this hypothesis 
of grammatical kinship with one more pet peeve: It annoys me no end when 
someone says e.g.,  "less people buy American-made cars."   To my mind, it 
should be "fewer people." If the referent occurs in discrete units (e.g., 
people, cars, trees, doillars, etc.) you use the adjective "fewer." But if the 
referent is a more general concept or continuous, less discrete you use the 
word (water, forest, money) "less."  So there are fewer trees and there may be 
less forested land. There are more people chasing fewer dollars but more people 
chasing less capital.



This seems obvious to me but it is so often breached that I'm beginning to 
question myself. It's so common to have a colleague say "I have less students 
in my class this semester." Or a newscaster says "The U.S. sold less cars this 
year." This jars my grammatical sensibilities. So.. am I the only 
one who gets irked by this issue? Surely my purported grammatical soul mate, 
Claudia must have the same reaction.



Ed


Edward I. Pollak, Ph.D.
Department of Psychology
West Chester University of Pennsylvania
Office hours: Mondays noon-2 & 3-4; Tuesdays & Thursdays 8-9:15 & 12:30-2
http://home.comcast.net/~epollak/home.htm

Husband, father, grandfather, biopsychologist, & bluegrass fiddler.. in 
approximate order of importance.


From: Claudia Stanny mailto:csta...@uwf.edu>>



Speaking for myself, reading "the data is" makes me cringe, grind my teeth,

and reach for a very sharp red pencil!   :-)



[just recently finished editing a slew of "data  is" constructions to "data 
 are" in a colleague's prose] When I read "data" a part of me always 
substitutes words like numbers, observations, findings.  All plural (so far).





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[tips] Data usage

2011-02-24 Thread Pollak, Edward
Claudia Stanny wrote: "Speaking for myself, reading "the data is" makes me 
cringe, grind my teeth, and reach for a very sharp red pencil! .  When 
I read "data" a part of me always substitutes words like numbers, observations, 
findings."



Claudia, is it possible that you are a long lost sister of mine? Our 
grammatical sensitivities seem to be identical..   Let's check this hypothesis 
of grammatical kinship with one more pet peeve: It annoys me no end when 
someone says e.g.,  "less people buy American-made cars."   To my mind, it 
should be "fewer people." If the referent occurs in discrete units (e.g., 
people, cars, trees, doillars, etc.) you use the adjective "fewer." But if the 
referent is a more general concept or continuous, less discrete you use the 
word (water, forest, money) "less."  So there are fewer trees and there may be 
less forested land. There are more people chasing fewer dollars but more people 
chasing less capital.



This seems obvious to me but it is so often breached that I'm beginning to 
question myself. It's so common to have a colleague say "I have less students 
in my class this semester." Or a newscaster says "The U.S. sold less cars this 
year." This jars my grammatical sensibilities. So.. am I the only 
one who gets irked by this issue? Surely my purported grammatical soul mate, 
Claudia must have the same reaction.



Ed


Edward I. Pollak, Ph.D.
Department of Psychology
West Chester University of Pennsylvania
Office hours: Mondays noon-2 & 3-4; Tuesdays & Thursdays 8-9:15 & 12:30-2
http://home.comcast.net/~epollak/home.htm

Husband, father, grandfather, biopsychologist, & bluegrass fiddler.. in 
approximate order of importance.


From: Claudia Stanny mailto:csta...@uwf.edu>>



Speaking for myself, reading "the data is" makes me cringe, grind my teeth,

and reach for a very sharp red pencil!   :-)



[just recently finished editing a slew of "data  is" constructions to "data 
 are" in a colleague's prose] When I read "data" a part of me always 
substitutes words like numbers, observations, findings.  All plural (so far).




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Re: [tips] Data usage

2011-02-23 Thread Claudia Stanny
Speaking for myself, reading "the data is" makes me cringe, grind my teeth,
and reach for a very sharp red pencil!   :-)

[just recently finished editing a slew of "data  is" constructions to
"data  are" in a colleague's prose]
When I read "data" a part of me always substitutes words like numbers,
observations, findings.  All plural (so far).

Claudia Stanny

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Re: [tips] Data usage

2011-02-23 Thread David Hogberg
Look what's happened to the use of "media."  Is, for example,
criterion/criteria next?  APA rules or not, misuses grate on my ears.

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 11:10 AM,  wrote:

> The word, not what it refers to.
>
> From Michael Quinion's "WorldWide Words" recently:
>
> "Several readers queried my writing in the last issue, "The data so
> far is unsurprising" because for them "data" is plural. It may be
> worth noting that British non-specialist usage has settled on "data"
> as a singular mass noun. "
>
> Would the APA let us get away with it? Send me something.
>
> Stephen
> 
> Stephen L. Black, Ph.D.
> Professor of Psychology, Emeritus
> Bishop's University
> Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada
> e-mail:  sblack at ubishops.ca
> -
>
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-- 
David K. Hogberg, PhD
Professor of Psychology, Emeritus
Department of Psychological Science
Albion College
Albion MI 49224

Tel: 517/629-4834, Mobile: 517/262-1277

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[tips] Data usage

2011-02-23 Thread sblack
The word, not what it refers to.

>From Michael Quinion's "WorldWide Words" recently:

"Several readers queried my writing in the last issue, "The data so 
far is unsurprising" because for them "data" is plural. It may be 
worth noting that British non-specialist usage has settled on "data" 
as a singular mass noun. "

Would the APA let us get away with it? Send me something.

Stephen

Stephen L. Black, Ph.D.  
Professor of Psychology, Emeritus   
Bishop's University
Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada   
e-mail:  sblack at ubishops.ca
-

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