Re:[tips] Franklin's kite and other scientific myths
box but when people started to refer to the air crib as a Skinner box it is quite possible that people might have though Deborah Skinner was being forced to bar press or peck at a lit disk in order to get food, water, and/or attention. So, the assertion of deleterious effects of the air crib on Deborah Skinner are clearly false but it is unclear who actually believes this to be true -- I would think that a false belief has to have some widespread acceptance for it to be considered a myth (consider: is the belief that President Obama was born in Kenya, is a secret Muslim, and has had all of his achievements given to him instead of earning it a myth or a delusion?). -Mike Palij New York University m...@nyu.edu From: Allen Esterson [allenester...@compuserve.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 4:10 AM To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) Subject: [tips] Franklin's kite and other scientific myths Benjamin Franklin ventured out on a stormy day to fly a kite with a lightning rod and a key dangling on the end of the string. ... This famous myth is one of several tall tales in science history that Alberto Martinez, associate professor of history, examines in his new book *Science Secrets: The Truth about Darwin’s Finches, Einstein's Wife, and Other Myths*. Alberto Martinez on the making of scientific myths: Speculations evolve into alleged anecdotes that even lead to scholarly studies. Laypersons, scientists and history professors are all vulnerable to the charm of 'likely stories'. http://www.utexas.edu/know/2011/06/06/science_secrets/ Psychology (of course) is not immune from the dissemination of myths: http://www.snopes.com/science/skinner.asp Allen Esterson Former lecturer, Science Department Southwark College, London allenester...@compuserve.com http://www.esterson.org --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5n=Tl=tipso=10922 or send a blank email to leave-10922-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
Re: Re:[tips] Franklin's kite and other scientific myths
NOTE: The full post by Allen that I am responding is provided after my signature. On Thu, 09 Jun 2011 03:06:01 -0700, Allen Esterson wrote: On 8 June 2011 Mike Palij wrote: I'm not sure that Skinner's Air Crib and rumors that his daughter was psychotic and a suicide should be considered a myth of psychology in the same sense as, say, We only use 10% of out brain or even the claim that Freud use icebergs as metaphors for the mind as he conceived it … […] So, the assertion of deleterious effects of the air crib on Deborah Skinner are clearly false but it is unclear who actually believes this to be true -- I would think that a false belief has to have some widespread acceptance for it to be considered a myth Mike raises a good point here that makes me think I was a bit glib in alluding to the story of Skinner's daughter Deborah and the supposed Skinner box as a myth. Perhaps the stories that circulated might more accurately be called rumours, as Mike suggests. Nevertheless, at one time it did seem to have had what might be called semi-official warrant, as this writer indicates (writing in 2004): When I was a freshman in college, my Psych 101 professor told us all about a psychologist who was so set on proving his theories about an 'apparatus' he had invented, that he went too far. The psychologist was none other than B.F. Skinner, the inventor of the famous 'Skinner Box.' And the story is that he locked his infant daughter in a Skinner Box for the first two years of her life, causing her to grow up psychologically damaged. Consequently, she sued him, after which she tragically committed suicide. What blows me away is that this story was taught in my freshman psychology class, and the instructor truly appeared to believe that the story was true. I believed it was true, too, and I imagine that everyone else in the class did, too. After all, it was written up in the text book and everything. http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art30372.asp A few points on the statement on the www.bellaonline.com article: (1) No information is given about (a) who the professor was that made this statement (behaviorists, who predominated in academia in the first 2/3 of the 20th century, would never make such a statement; a non-research oriented psychoanalytic clinician or humanistic psychology clinician might make such a statement but only out of ignorance and/or to disparage behaviorism as represented by Skinner) and (b) which intro psych textbook contained his story? My intro psych class (back when it was a one year course) used some edition of Hilgard and Atkinson -- I don't remember seeing Skinner's work or the aircrib being presented in a negative light (one semester used the Keller PSI system which was unlikely to present Skinner and his work negatively). Is any Tipster or non-Tipster aware of any intro psych textbook that would present the aircrib story as producing madness and suicide? I think it would interesting to see text(s) that actually do this if they exists. (2) Statements like the one above are memories and, given what we know about the creation of false memories, probably should be suspect until one has supporting evidence from an independent source, like an intro psych textbook that presents the aircrib from a negative perspective. If one is just BS'ing, making statements like the one above is par for the course but if one is trying to be serious one probably has to provide more details as well as how to independently verify the claims. (3) I have no doubt that there were stories like the one alluded to above. I do have some doubt that intro psych instructors would present a story like that above as though it was factually accurate (if an instructor did do that, I suspect that the behaviorist on the faculty would give that instructor a good talking to as well as telling them to take a look at Skinner's Cumulative Record or ask to provide the references that presented such a story as true). Now, we all know that instructors can say some pretty stupid things in class or present their prejudices/biases as fact while being blissfully ignorant of the facts. Might there have been some instructors over the past 50 years had said something like that statement above? Possibly. But I would like a lot more information about the circumstances. (4) If someone can show that many different intro psych textbooks presented the Aircrib horror story as a fact, then I'd be willing to say that maybe it was a myth in academia like Freud's iceberg. But I don't think this is the case. Are there popular media sources that may have presented this story as fact? Yes, as evidenced by the statement above, but I believe that the number of people who believed the story to be true is rather small, say, relative to the number of people who believe people only use 10% of their brain or, upgraded for the 21st century, 20% of their brain. -Mike Palij New York University m...@nyu.edu - Original
[tips] Franklin's kite and other scientific myths
Benjamin Franklin ventured out on a stormy day to fly a kite with a lightning rod and a key dangling on the end of the string. ... This famous myth is one of several tall tales in science history that Alberto Martinez, associate professor of history, examines in his new book *Science Secrets: The Truth about Darwin’s Finches, Einstein's Wife, and Other Myths*. Alberto Martinez on the making of scientific myths: Speculations evolve into alleged anecdotes that even lead to scholarly studies. Laypersons, scientists and history professors are all vulnerable to the charm of 'likely stories'. http://www.utexas.edu/know/2011/06/06/science_secrets/ Psychology (of course) is not immune from the dissemination of myths: http://www.snopes.com/science/skinner.asp Allen Esterson Former lecturer, Science Department Southwark College, London allenester...@compuserve.com http://www.esterson.org --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5n=Tl=tipso=10895 or send a blank email to leave-10895-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
re: [tips] Franklin's kite and other scientific myths
On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 02:10:45 -0700, Allen Esterson wrote: [snip] Alberto Martinez on the making of scientific myths: Speculations evolve into alleged anecdotes that even lead to scholarly studies. Laypersons, scientists and history professors are all vulnerable to the charm of 'likely stories'. http://www.utexas.edu/know/2011/06/06/science_secrets/ Psychology (of course) is not immune from the dissemination of myths: http://www.snopes.com/science/skinner.asp I'm not sure that Skinner's Air Crib and rumors that his daughter was psychotic and a suicide should be considered a myth of psychology in the same sense as, say, We only use 10% of out brain or even the claim that Freud use icebergs as metaphors for the mind as he conceived it (Scott Lilienfeld Co list most of the common/popular myths in psychology in their book 50 Great Myths of Popular Psychology). It is unclear to me who actually believed the Skinner myth (I have not read Lauren Slater's book and maybe she identifies relevant sources) but it was not presented in intro psych textbooks or other sources that students would have presented to them (unlike the iceberg myth) nor does it seem to be a popular belief (unlike the 10% brain usage myth). As an undergraduate I actually went and got the Ladies Home Journal article, read it, and always wondered how anyone could think it was a tool or torture or whatever (indeed, snopes make the same point which suggests that anyone who reached this conclusion on the basis of this article has some real serious intellectual/emotional issues). The Baby in a Box article is reprinted in Skinner's Cumulative Record but I believe that first edition was published in 1972 and I had searched for the article prior to 1972, Part of the problem might be with the colloquial use of the term Skinner box. Traditionally, an operant chamber was informally referred to as a Skinner box but when people started to refer to the air crib as a Skinner box it is quite possible that people might have though Deborah Skinner was being forced to bar press or peck at a lit disk in order to get food, water, and/or attention. So, the assertion of deleterious effects of the air crib on Deborah Skinner are clearly false but it is unclear who actually believes this to be true -- I would think that a false belief has to have some widespread acceptance for it to be considered a myth (consider: is the belief that President Obama was born in Kenya, is a secret Muslim, and has had all of his achievements given to him instead of earning it a myth or a delusion?). -Mike Palij New York University m...@nyu.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5n=Tl=tipso=10897 or send a blank email to leave-10897-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
RE: [tips] Franklin's kite and other scientific myths
Of further relevance to psychology, did anyone else read this part of the interview with Alberto Martinez: http://www.utexas.edu/know/2011/06/06/science_secrets/ As for Einstein, writers have contrived reasons why he made his theory of relativity: that his wife was his secret coworker, that he was influenced by patent applications, modern art or mystical beliefs about God. But no, these are all just myths. Surprisingly, there’s more evidence that Einstein was influenced by, of all things, developmental psychology. I’m not saying that this was the most important factor (optics and electrodynamics were far more important), just that it was more important than the factors I just mentioned. If others did read it, am I the only one who doesn't know what he is talking about? What influence did developmental psychology have on Einstein's theorizing? Rick Dr. Rick Froman, Chair Division of Humanities and Social Sciences John Brown University Siloam Springs, AR 72761 rfro...@jbu.edu From: Allen Esterson [allenester...@compuserve.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 4:10 AM To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) Subject: [tips] Franklin's kite and other scientific myths Benjamin Franklin ventured out on a stormy day to fly a kite with a lightning rod and a key dangling on the end of the string. ... This famous myth is one of several tall tales in science history that Alberto Martinez, associate professor of history, examines in his new book *Science Secrets: The Truth about Darwin’s Finches, Einstein's Wife, and Other Myths*. Alberto Martinez on the making of scientific myths: Speculations evolve into alleged anecdotes that even lead to scholarly studies. Laypersons, scientists and history professors are all vulnerable to the charm of 'likely stories'. http://www.utexas.edu/know/2011/06/06/science_secrets/ Psychology (of course) is not immune from the dissemination of myths: http://www.snopes.com/science/skinner.asp Allen Esterson Former lecturer, Science Department Southwark College, London allenester...@compuserve.com http://www.esterson.org --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5n=Tl=tipso=10899 or send a blank email to leave-10899-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
Re: [tips] Franklin's kite and other scientific myths
I'm not sure what problem there would be with a bar to press or a button to push in a crib. If you can teach pigeons to read that way http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_ctJqjlrHA it should work on kids, too. Rick Stevens Psychology Department University of Louisiana at Monroe stevens.r...@gmail.com SL - Evert Snook On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 7:21 AM, Mike Palij m...@nyu.edu wrote: [snip] Part of the problem might be with the colloquial use of the term Skinner box. Traditionally, an operant chamber was informally referred to as a Skinner box but when people started to refer to the air crib as a Skinner box it is quite possible that people might have though Deborah Skinner was being forced to bar press or peck at a lit disk in order to get food, water, and/or attention. ... -Mike Palij New York University m...@nyu.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: stevens.r...@gmail.com. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13526.d532f8e870faf8a0d8f6433b7952f38dn=Tl=tipso=10897 or send a blank email to leave-10897-13526.d532f8e870faf8a0d8f6433b7952f...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5n=Tl=tipso=10900 or send a blank email to leave-10900-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
Re: [tips] Franklin's kite and other scientific myths
It's been done -- just not by Skinner. Paul Brandon Emeritus Professor of Psychology Minnesota State University, Mankato paul.bran...@mnsu.edu On Jun 8, 2011, at 8:33 AM, Rick Stevens wrote: I'm not sure what problem there would be with a bar to press or a button to push in a crib. If you can teach pigeons to read that way http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_ctJqjlrHA it should work on kids, too. Rick Stevens Psychology Department University of Louisiana at Monroe stevens.r...@gmail.com SL - Evert Snook On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 7:21 AM, Mike Palij m...@nyu.edu wrote: [snip] Part of the problem might be with the colloquial use of the term Skinner box. Traditionally, an operant chamber was informally referred to as a Skinner box but when people started to refer to the air crib as a Skinner box it is quite possible that people might have though Deborah Skinner was being forced to bar press or peck at a lit disk in order to get food, water, and/or attention. ... -Mike Palij New York University m...@nyu.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: stevens.r...@gmail.com. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13526.d532f8e870faf8a0d8f6433b7952f38dn=Tl=tipso=10897 or send a blank email to leave-10897-13526.d532f8e870faf8a0d8f6433b7952f...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: paul.bran...@mnsu.edu. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13438.3b5166ef147b143fedd04b1c4a64900bn=Tl=tipso=10900 (It may be necessary to cut and paste the above URL if the line is broken) or send a blank email to leave-10900-13438.3b5166ef147b143fedd04b1c4a649...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5n=Tl=tipso=10901 or send a blank email to leave-10901-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
Re: [tips] Franklin's kite and other scientific myths
On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 06:34:14 -0700, Rick Stevens I'm not sure what problem there would be with a bar to press or a button to push in a crib. If you can teach pigeons to read that way http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_ctJqjlrHA it should work on kids, too. It's not a real problem but a problem of appearance. Some people might be really put off by seeing a child in an air crib pressing a bar or pushing a button to get a treat or something else. They might see this as treating infants as animals instead of human beings. It's a matter of perspective and interpretation. Humanistic psychologists of 1960-1970 vintage would probably howl about it. -Mike Palij New York University m...@nyu.edu On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 7:21 AM, Mike Palij m...@nyu.edu wrote: [snip] Part of the problem might be with the colloquial use of the term Skinner box. Traditionally, an operant chamber was informally referred to as a Skinner box but when people started to refer to the air crib as a Skinner box it is quite possible that people might have though Deborah Skinner was being forced to bar press or peck at a lit disk in order to get food, water, and/or attention. --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5n=Tl=tipso=10902 or send a blank email to leave-10902-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
Re: [tips] Franklin's kite and other scientific myths
If I remember his article about the crib, there were no levers or discs. It was lined with paper (?) that could be pulled out and disposed of easil (a la hospital bed lining), and temperature and humidity controls that you could play with to maximize the comfort of the child, and it did not have bars to get a head stuck in. It gave parents a break, hence they were in a better mood and more social when they played with the kids. I'm not much of a Skinnerian, but it was one heck of a crib, and if anyone crings at the oddity of it, one only has to compare it to millions of kids that are plopped in front of a TV, ignored, neglected, etc. Anyone interested should read Skinners original article describing it. --Original Message-- From: Mike Palij To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) Cc: Mike Palij ReplyTo: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) Subject: Re: [tips] Franklin's kite and other scientific myths Sent: Jun 8, 2011 10:47 AM On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 06:34:14 -0700, Rick Stevens I'm not sure what problem there would be with a bar to press or a button to push in a crib. If you can teach pigeons to read that way http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_ctJqjlrHA it should work on kids, too. It's not a real problem but a problem of appearance. Some people might be really put off by seeing a child in an air crib pressing a bar or pushing a button to get a treat or something else. They might see this as treating infants as animals instead of human beings. It's a matter of perspective and interpretation. Humanistic psychologists of 1960-1970 vintage would probably howl about it. -Mike Palij New York University m...@nyu.edu On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 7:21 AM, Mike Palij m...@nyu.edu wrote: [snip] Part of the problem might be with the colloquial use of the term Skinner box. Traditionally, an operant chamber was informally referred to as a Skinner box but when people started to refer to the air crib as a Skinner box it is quite possible that people might have though Deborah Skinner was being forced to bar press or peck at a lit disk in order to get food, water, and/or attention. --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: ku...@mail.plymouth.edu. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13338.f659d005276678c0696b7f6beda66454n=Tl=tipso=10902 or send a blank email to leave-10902-13338.f659d005276678c0696b7f6beda66...@fsulist.frostburg.edu Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device from U.S. Cellular --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: arch...@jab.org. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5n=Tl=tipso=10904 or send a blank email to leave-10904-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
