Re: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:23:23 -0700 (PDT), Chuck Carson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Dennis Dai [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Im just relaying what this guy told me. Obviously jboss would not disappear, just whatever 'entity' this was in Georgia I believe is where they were located. We tried contacting them when we were first looking into moving from weblogic. This was also several months ago so alot could have happened in that time. I think the guy said some of the head guys were butting heads and that sort of stuff. I have the contact info somewhere. I wanna say it was a guy named Gary but not 100%. I don't know anyone named Gary ... -- x Rémy Maucherat Developer Consultant JBoss Group (Europe) SàRL x - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
If you are only using the jsp/servlet container I think Tomcat is a good choice: good performance, well documented and plenty of people using it (I think in many cases is the best support). If you have reasons to get a commercial container you could use a cheaper solution like ServletExec from NewAtlanta, I used it in a project and it worked very well. I don't know much about their support because I tryed mailing lists when I had questions and all was solved this way. If you are planning to use any more services from J2EE stack in the future (EJB, transactions ...), you can try Jonas by Objectweb, a production quality open source J2EE solution with good and free documentation. Changing from Tomcat to it should be easy since Jonas uses Tomcat as servlet/jsp container. One year ago I used JBoss for testing purposes only, in general it was a good experience but buying good documentation for $100 wasn't worth for me (but probably better than paying $$$ for Weblogic). My suggestion is to try Tomcat now and Jonas in the near future if you need more. On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 01:31:52 +0200, Bjørn T Johansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am taking over a project that's running on Weblogic 8.1 SP3 today.. They are only using the jsp-container and it is time to renew the support agreement with BEA. So I was just wondering, is it worth it? Or is Tomcat as good as WL or maybe better? Does WL have features that is missing in Tomcat? When the time comes to use EJB, is JBoss as good as/better than WL? So basically, I would like some advice on why I should/shouldn't continue with Weblogic? :) Regards, BTJ -- --- Bjørn T Johansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Someone wrote: I understand that if you play a Windows CD backwards you hear strange Satanic messages To which someone replied: It's even worse than that; play it forwards and it installs Windows --- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, Bjørn T Johansen wrote: | I am taking over a project that's running on Weblogic 8.1 SP3 today.. They are only using | the jsp-container and it is time to renew the support agreement with BEA. Kjoer med Tomcat! Serioest - hvis du vet hva det er snakk om, og vet hva du gjoer, saa er jo Tomcat -vesentlig- bedre enn noe som helst kommersielt. Sjekk denne: http://www.webperformanceinc.com/library/ServletReport/ (Selskap som hindrer en i aa publish performance benchmarks simpelthe1n ber om aa -aldri- faa en dollar av meg - det er regelrett forkastelig! ) Mvh, Endre - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
Ehh, oops. ;) I was about to post personally to this dude, which obviously is a Norwegian, when I hit the send button (ctrl+x, y) slightly early! Endre! On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, Endre Stølsvik wrote: | On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, Bjørn T Johansen wrote: | | | I am taking over a project that's running on Weblogic 8.1 SP3 today.. They are only using | | the jsp-container and it is time to renew the support agreement with BEA. | | Kjoer med Tomcat! Serioest - hvis du vet hva det er snakk om, og vet hva | du gjoer, saa er jo Tomcat -vesentlig- bedre enn noe som helst | kommersielt. | | Sjekk denne: | http://www.webperformanceinc.com/library/ServletReport/ | (Selskap som hindrer en i aa publish performance benchmarks | simpelthe1n ber om aa -aldri- faa en dollar av meg - det er regelrett | forkastelig! ) | | Mvh, | Endre - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
If you are only using a servlet/jsp container. Ditch weblogic right now. Look at resin, servletexec, jetty, or any other (much cheaper) servlet container. I had a bad experience with weblogic: - I would provide bugs with cases to them and their support would take forever to understand the issue. - Their compliance to the servlet and JSP spec is comparable to Microsoft's IE. (Just because it looks right and runs right - doesn't mean compliance) - Converting to tomcat was an undertaking because the site originally coded by a consulting firm which knew buzzwords, but not coding. - We had massive stability issues with the site. (It was as stable as a 4 year old running on the beach on a windy day carrying a giant beach ball) They recommended a firm and with a straight face - the firm recommended that they recode the entire site (offshore) for an incredible price tag. (And 4 months of frozen dev time) After switching to tomcat + apache over 2 years ago, I can count on one hand the number of times we had unexpected outages due to tomcat's bugs. (Which were easily diagnosed and fixed(worked around) since we had the source) The site was also significantly faster after the move. In summary - I'm kind of jaded against weblogic. -Tim Bjørn T Johansen wrote: I am taking over a project that's running on Weblogic 8.1 SP3 today.. They are only using the jsp-container and it is time to renew the support agreement with BEA. So I was just wondering, is it worth it? Or is Tomcat as good as WL or maybe better? Does WL have features that is missing in Tomcat? When the time comes to use EJB, is JBoss as good as/better than WL? So basically, I would like some advice on why I should/shouldn't continue with Weblogic? :) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
Hi, I would add a couple of minor points, as others have already covered the main ones. You say you're only using Weblogic's JSP container. Tomcat's JSP container (known as Jasper) is used not only by Tomcat, but by JBoss, JonAS, IBM's Websphere, and a number of other commercial products. So by switching, you not only get a free solution (BEA is $ as others have noted), but one that's used by a huge customer base and with many support options. As QM noted, there's no official professional services provider for Tomcat, or Apache in general. The ASF cannot sanction such an official provider because of its legal formulation. However, there are a number of support companies which will do Apache, Tomcat, and Jasper. Some of them, such as Covalent, have an excellent track record, numerous Fortune 1000 customers, and 24x7 support. That should be sufficient to CYA for management, which as someone mentioned is always a consideration. Yoav Shapira Millennium Research Informatics -Original Message- From: Bjørn T Johansen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 7:32 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic? I am taking over a project that's running on Weblogic 8.1 SP3 today.. They are only using the jsp-container and it is time to renew the support agreement with BEA. So I was just wondering, is it worth it? Or is Tomcat as good as WL or maybe better? Does WL have features that is missing in Tomcat? When the time comes to use EJB, is JBoss as good as/better than WL? So basically, I would like some advice on why I should/shouldn't continue with Weblogic? :) Regards, BTJ -- --- Bjørn T Johansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Someone wrote: I understand that if you play a Windows CD backwards you hear strange Satanic messages To which someone replied: It's even worse than that; play it forwards and it installs Windows --- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business communication, and may contain information that is confidential, proprietary and/or privileged. This e-mail is intended only for the individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and may not be saved, copied, printed, disclosed or used by anyone else. If you are not the(an) intended recipient, please immediately delete this e-mail from your computer system and notify the sender. Thank you. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
So the conclusion would be that BEA isn't worth the cost... And since I am used to using opensource, including Tomcat, then Tomcat seems to be the right way to go... (and maybe JBoss if we get that far...) Thanks for your replies... :) BTJ Shapira, Yoav wrote: Hi, I would add a couple of minor points, as others have already covered the main ones. You say you're only using Weblogic's JSP container. Tomcat's JSP container (known as Jasper) is used not only by Tomcat, but by JBoss, JonAS, IBM's Websphere, and a number of other commercial products. So by switching, you not only get a free solution (BEA is $ as others have noted), but one that's used by a huge customer base and with many support options. As QM noted, there's no official professional services provider for Tomcat, or Apache in general. The ASF cannot sanction such an official provider because of its legal formulation. However, there are a number of support companies which will do Apache, Tomcat, and Jasper. Some of them, such as Covalent, have an excellent track record, numerous Fortune 1000 customers, and 24x7 support. That should be sufficient to CYA for management, which as someone mentioned is always a consideration. Yoav Shapira Millennium Research Informatics -Original Message- From: Bjørn T Johansen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 7:32 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic? I am taking over a project that's running on Weblogic 8.1 SP3 today.. They are only using the jsp-container and it is time to renew the support agreement with BEA. So I was just wondering, is it worth it? Or is Tomcat as good as WL or maybe better? Does WL have features that is missing in Tomcat? When the time comes to use EJB, is JBoss as good as/better than WL? So basically, I would like some advice on why I should/shouldn't continue with Weblogic? :) Regards, BTJ -- --- Bjørn T Johansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Someone wrote: I understand that if you play a Windows CD backwards you hear strange Satanic messages To which someone replied: It's even worse than that; play it forwards and it installs Windows --- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business communication, and may contain information that is confidential, proprietary and/or privileged. This e-mail is intended only for the individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and may not be saved, copied, printed, disclosed or used by anyone else. If you are not the(an) intended recipient, please immediately delete this e-mail from your computer system and notify the sender. Thank you. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
--- Bjørn T Johansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So the conclusion would be that BEA isn't worth the cost... And since I am used to using opensource, including Tomcat, then Tomcat seems to be the right way to go... (and maybe JBoss if we get that far...) Thanks for your replies... :) BTJ Shapira, Yoav wrote: Hi, I would add a couple of minor points, as others have already covered the main ones. You say you're only using Weblogic's JSP container. Tomcat's JSP container (known as Jasper) is used not only by Tomcat, but by JBoss, JonAS, IBM's Websphere, and a number of other commercial products. So by switching, you not only get a free solution (BEA is $ as others have noted), but one that's used by a huge customer base and with many support options. As QM noted, there's no official professional services provider for Tomcat, or Apache in general. The ASF cannot sanction such an official provider because of its legal formulation. However, there are a number of support companies which will do Apache, Tomcat, and Jasper. Some of them, such as Covalent, have an excellent track record, numerous Fortune 1000 customers, and 24x7 support. That should be sufficient to CYA for management, which as someone mentioned is always a consideration. Yoav Shapira Millennium Research Informatics -Original Message- From: Bjørn T Johansen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 7:32 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic? I am taking over a project that's running on Weblogic 8.1 SP3 today.. They are only using the jsp-container and it is time to renew the support agreement with BEA. So I was just wondering, is it worth it? Or is Tomcat as good as WL or maybe better? Does WL have features that is missing in Tomcat? When the time comes to use EJB, is JBoss as good as/better than WL? So basically, I would like some advice on why I should/shouldn't continue with Weblogic? :) Regards, BTJ -- --- Bjørn T Johansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Someone wrote: I understand that if you play a Windows CD backwards you hear strange Satanic messages To which someone replied: It's even worse than that; play it forwards and it installs Windows --- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This e-mail, including any attachments, is a confidential business communication, and may contain information that is confidential, proprietary and/or privileged. This e-mail is intended only for the individual(s) to whom it is addressed, and may not be saved, copied, printed, disclosed or used by anyone else. If you are not the(an) intended recipient, please immediately delete this e-mail from your computer system and notify the sender. Thank you. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] We are also looking to migrate all our apps from weblogic to tomcat. When you look at the real world TCO, tomcat is defintely the way to go. If you need better performance just scale out behind an IP load balancer or use Tomcat clustering. Our main reason was BEA's Nazi licensing practices, development license costs, support costs, etc We are now down to only 1 app that use EJB's and it is getting ready to be decommisioned. I am also damn impressed in how far the Tomcat project has come in the recent years. Support for tomcat is as good if not better than BEA's support for weblogic, it best of all it's free. As far as JBoss goes, I heard a nasty rumor that JBoss might not be around much longer. -rhugga - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
Mwah-h! I would **love** to know your source on that. Hani S. doesn't count As far as JBoss goes, I heard a nasty rumor that JBoss might not be around much longer. -rhugga - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
It was the Director of PR for JBoss as of about 5 months ago. We were trying to buy the documentation and he was the only one we could even get ahold of. I think his name was Gary but I will have to dig thru my contact to be sure. Also, I don't think he was a JBoss employee but a consultant for them. Just what I heard. I know the product is good, I just got the impression they were having political problems... Our developers really like it. -rhugga --- Mike Curwen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mwah-h! I would **love** to know your source on that. Hani S. doesn't count As far as JBoss goes, I heard a nasty rumor that JBoss might not be around much longer. -rhugga - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] = Chuck Carson - Sr. Systems Engineer Syrrx, Inc. - www.syrrx.com 10410 Science Center Drive San Diego, CA 92121 Work: 858.731.3540 Fax: 858.550.0526 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
On 9/20/2004 3:00 PM, Chuck Carson wrote: As far as JBoss goes, I heard a nasty rumor that JBoss might not be around much longer. Well, you do know that there're tomcat developers that work for JBoss on this list, right? ;-) -- Dennis Dai [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
--- Dennis Dai [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/20/2004 3:00 PM, Chuck Carson wrote: As far as JBoss goes, I heard a nasty rumor that JBoss might not be around much longer. Well, you do know that there're tomcat developers that work for JBoss on this list, right? ;-) -- Dennis Dai [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Im just relaying what this guy told me. Obviously jboss would not disappear, just whatever 'entity' this was in Georgia I believe is where they were located. We tried contacting them when we were first looking into moving from weblogic. This was also several months ago so alot could have happened in that time. I think the guy said some of the head guys were butting heads and that sort of stuff. I have the contact info somewhere. I wanna say it was a guy named Gary but not 100%. -rhugga - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
JBoss is having trouble becuase there is another freeware/shareware application server from part or all of the original developer group that developed JBoss. I wish I could recll the name I want to say genuity but I'm not sure. As far as JBoss going away I don't know -Original Message- From: Mike Curwen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 4:00 PM To: 'Tomcat Users List' Subject: RE: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic? Mwah-h! I would **love** to know your source on that. Hani S. doesn't count As far as JBoss goes, I heard a nasty rumor that JBoss might not be around much longer. -rhugga - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
That's Geronimo - another Apache project. On 9/20/2004 5:03 PM, John Najarian wrote: JBoss is having trouble becuase there is another freeware/shareware application server from part or all of the original developer group that developed JBoss. I wish I could recll the name I want to say genuity but I'm not sure. As far as JBoss going away I don't know -Original Message- From: Mike Curwen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 4:00 PM To: 'Tomcat Users List' Subject: RE: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic? Mwah-h! I would **love** to know your source on that. Hani S. doesn't count As far as JBoss goes, I heard a nasty rumor that JBoss might not be around much longer. -rhugga -- Dennis Dai [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
You're right thanks. Since it comes from apache I would bet the documentation is probably better than JBoss'. I never liked the documentation from JBoss. They still don't allow users to download version 4 documentation and that's been out for close to a year. -Original Message- From: Dennis Dai [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 5:47 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Re: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic? That's Geronimo - another Apache project. On 9/20/2004 5:03 PM, John Najarian wrote: JBoss is having trouble becuase there is another freeware/shareware application server from part or all of the original developer group that developed JBoss. I wish I could recll the name I want to say genuity but I'm not sure. As far as JBoss going away I don't know -Original Message- From: Mike Curwen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 4:00 PM To: 'Tomcat Users List' Subject: RE: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic? Mwah-h! I would **love** to know your source on that. Hani S. doesn't count As far as JBoss goes, I heard a nasty rumor that JBoss might not be around much longer. -rhugga -- Dennis Dai [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
I am taking over a project that's running on Weblogic 8.1 SP3 today.. They are only using the jsp-container and it is time to renew the support agreement with BEA. So I was just wondering, is it worth it? Or is Tomcat as good as WL or maybe better? Does WL have features that is missing in Tomcat? When the time comes to use EJB, is JBoss as good as/better than WL? So basically, I would like some advice on why I should/shouldn't continue with Weblogic? :) Regards, BTJ -- --- Bjørn T Johansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Someone wrote: I understand that if you play a Windows CD backwards you hear strange Satanic messages To which someone replied: It's even worse than that; play it forwards and it installs Windows --- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
The one comment I would make is that with BEA, you have a certain degree of accountability that you don't have with an open-source product. That can be important in a business environment. I'm probably starting a religious war by posting this, but to some companies it is frankly more important to have someone that's on the hook for problems that arise (and ultimately someone that is legally liable should it really go bad), and you just don't have that with an open-source project. This may or may not be important in your environment, and to be sure there are plenty of advantages that OSS has over commercial offerings and you need to weigh those against the downside(s). I'm not sure I can really comment in terms of how they compare from a technological standpoint. I can tell you that WebLogic is a very robust platform (having previously had some apps running on it), and one benefit that you might see is that having all the various pieces coming from the same vendor might make it more stable (think BEA vs. Tomcat w/JBoss and Axis all pieced together). This isn't necasserily true, but could be. On the flip side, all that functionality comes at the price of added complexity. Tomcat really is very simple to get going with and to administer and tune, and if it has all the functionality you need, this can be a boon to your work. I do have one app hosted on Tomcat. It's what I would call a low-to-mid-size app load-wise (around 75 concurrent users at any given time, on the order of 5,000 requests per day). Tomcat gives us fantastic performance with that load, so my guess it that it will scale quite a bit further. The other thing to be careful about, since you said you are inheriting this app, is if the programmers did anything that is WL-specific that you'd have to deal with to convert. If there's nothing, the decision is in some ways harder because you can justify Tomcat a little bit easier (on cost if nothing else). If there's ANYTHING that's WL-specific, if I were in your shoes, I'd probably stick with WL, just to try and minimize any problems I might get blamed for. It might be tough to figure out if there's anything that might be a problem or not, so possibly it's better to play it safe. In short, I'm a big fan of Tomcat, I use it exclusively during development and use it in production as well, but since you have an existing app already running on WL, and since it is a business environment, all things considered, I'd tend towards the side of sticking with WL. Especially if your company doesn't have a problem with the price, I think my lean would increase! -- Frank W. Zammetti Founder and Chief Software Architect Omnytex Technologies http://www.omnytex.com On Sun, September 19, 2004 7:31 pm, Bjørn T Johansen said: I am taking over a project that's running on Weblogic 8.1 SP3 today.. They are only using the jsp-container and it is time to renew the support agreement with BEA. So I was just wondering, is it worth it? Or is Tomcat as good as WL or maybe better? Does WL have features that is missing in Tomcat? When the time comes to use EJB, is JBoss as good as/better than WL? So basically, I would like some advice on why I should/shouldn't continue with Weblogic? :) Regards, BTJ -- --- Bjørn T Johansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Someone wrote: I understand that if you play a Windows CD backwards you hear strange Satanic messages To which someone replied: It's even worse than that; play it forwards and it installs Windows --- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
JBOSS is as good as any EJB container out there on the market, if not better. The only different is support. You have to pay BEA a small fortune for support and they will help you every step of the way. On the other hand, if you use JBOSS, you are pretty much on your own. Although you can hire the JBOSS consulting team to assist you, but you have to have a team of developers/admin in-house who are very knowledgeable and know what they are doing. Hope this helps. -Original Message- From: Bjørn T Johansen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 6:32 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic? I am taking over a project that's running on Weblogic 8.1 SP3 today.. They are only using the jsp-container and it is time to renew the support agreement with BEA. So I was just wondering, is it worth it? Or is Tomcat as good as WL or maybe better? Does WL have features that is missing in Tomcat? When the time comes to use EJB, is JBoss as good as/better than WL? So basically, I would like some advice on why I should/shouldn't continue with Weblogic? :) Regards, BTJ -- --- Bjørn T Johansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Someone wrote: I understand that if you play a Windows CD backwards you hear strange Satanic messages To which someone replied: It's even worse than that; play it forwards and it installs Windows --- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
I have to agree with epyonne. JBoss has lousy documentation doesn't have good support. Tomcat is a very fine JSP/Servlet container. There isn't anything it can't do. -Original Message- From: Bjørn T Johansen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 4:32 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic? I am taking over a project that's running on Weblogic 8.1 SP3 today.. They are only using the jsp-container and it is time to renew the support agreement with BEA. So I was just wondering, is it worth it? Or is Tomcat as good as WL or maybe better? Does WL have features that is missing in Tomcat? When the time comes to use EJB, is JBoss as good as/better than WL? So basically, I would like some advice on why I should/shouldn't continue with Weblogic? :) Regards, BTJ -- --- Bjørn T Johansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Someone wrote: I understand that if you play a Windows CD backwards you hear strange Satanic messages To which someone replied: It's even worse than that; play it forwards and it installs Windows --- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
as long as you know what you are doing and understand every aspect of the software you will be using, you wont need any support from any vendor. at least thats what i understand from using tomcat vs bea. On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 19:09:46 -0500, epyonne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: JBOSS is as good as any EJB container out there on the market, if not better. The only different is support. You have to pay BEA a small fortune for support and they will help you every step of the way. On the other hand, if you use JBOSS, you are pretty much on your own. Although you can hire the JBOSS consulting team to assist you, but you have to have a team of developers/admin in-house who are very knowledgeable and know what they are doing. Hope this helps. -Original Message- From: Bjørn T Johansen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 6:32 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic? I am taking over a project that's running on Weblogic 8.1 SP3 today.. They are only using the jsp-container and it is time to renew the support agreement with BEA. So I was just wondering, is it worth it? Or is Tomcat as good as WL or maybe better? Does WL have features that is missing in Tomcat? When the time comes to use EJB, is JBoss as good as/better than WL? So basically, I would like some advice on why I should/shouldn't continue with Weblogic? :) Regards, BTJ -- --- Bjørn T Johansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Someone wrote: I understand that if you play a Windows CD backwards you hear strange Satanic messages To which someone replied: It's even worse than that; play it forwards and it installs Windows --- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
Not so when going to a full blown application server vs a JSP/Servlet container. I've worked with iPlanet, Sun's application Server(built on iPlanet) JBoss. JBoss is a PIA when compared. Poor documentations few resources. -Original Message- From: Big Chiz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 5:42 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Re: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic? as long as you know what you are doing and understand every aspect of the software you will be using, you wont need any support from any vendor. at least thats what i understand from using tomcat vs bea. On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 19:09:46 -0500, epyonne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: JBOSS is as good as any EJB container out there on the market, if not better. The only different is support. You have to pay BEA a small fortune for support and they will help you every step of the way. On the other hand, if you use JBOSS, you are pretty much on your own. Although you can hire the JBOSS consulting team to assist you, but you have to have a team of developers/admin in-house who are very knowledgeable and know what they are doing. Hope this helps. -Original Message- From: Bjørn T Johansen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 6:32 PM To: Tomcat Users List Subject: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic? I am taking over a project that's running on Weblogic 8.1 SP3 today.. They are only using the jsp-container and it is time to renew the support agreement with BEA. So I was just wondering, is it worth it? Or is Tomcat as good as WL or maybe better? Does WL have features that is missing in Tomcat? When the time comes to use EJB, is JBoss as good as/better than WL? So basically, I would like some advice on why I should/shouldn't continue with Weblogic? :) Regards, BTJ -- --- Bjørn T Johansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Someone wrote: I understand that if you play a Windows CD backwards you hear strange Satanic messages To which someone replied: It's even worse than that; play it forwards and it installs Windows --- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs BEA Weblogic?
On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 01:31:52AM +0200, Bj?rn T Johansen wrote: : So basically, I would like some advice on why I should/shouldn't continue : with Weblogic? :) I've used Tomcat and Weblogic, and can offer a brief comparison: 1/ Co$t. You can't beat Tomcat's price. WL licensing is based on the number of CPUs in the machine. (Doesn't sound too bad until you have 40+ CPUs involved. ;) 2/ Spec compliance/upkeep: Tomcat 5.x implements servlet spec 2.4, while (IIRC) Weblogic 8.1 is still 2.3. Granted, BEA has several reasons to take the Corporate slow and steady Pace; but it's nice that I can use the servlet 2.4/JSP 2.0 features *now* instead of waiting. 3/ Clustering: Weblogic wins here, not so much because WL clustering is any better but because it's been tried and tested. I've been using WL clusters for more than 4 years now, since v5.1. By comparison, Tomcat clustering appeared in v5.0 (last year, was it?) so it hasn't experienced nearly as much road-testing. 4/ Webserver connectivity: I've never had a problem with mod_jk; but based on list posts, I'm the pathological case. (The ratio of jk flaws vs pilot error is beyond me.) Setting up the Weblogic Proxy Plugin was a complete no-brainer, vs mod_jk which was a partial no_brainer. 5/ All-In-One package: What are your long-term app dev goals? WL provides EJB and other features out of the box. As others have mentioned, doing that with Tomcat involves adding other products to the mix, which can slow down a pre-product RD effort. 6/ Hand-holding: for a fee, BEA can send a pro-serv team to your site and/or provide training. There is no official (Apache-based) Tomcat consulting/pro-serv, as far as I know. While unofficial services are certainly available, you'd have to shop around, check credentials, etc. That said, don't let the open source vs vended labels fool you. The support models aren't too different as long as you don't deviate too far from the norm with your app/setup, and you're conservative about upgrades. What you really have to worry about is in it for the long run vs fly-by-night; and neither Tomcat nor Weblogic show any signs of disappearing for the forseeable future. -QM -- software -- http://www.brandxdev.net tech news -- http://www.RoarNetworX.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
JNDIRealm source code - (was: Re: Tomcat vs Bea WebLogic)
Hi,
I am using tomcat 4.1.27, Java sdk-1.4.1_02 and JNDIRealm to use the Micro$oft
Site Server service to authenticate our webapps.
I get an error code 2 exception (Protocol Error) only when the user and the
password is right. That is to say, when an OK is expected. I am thinking
about modify the JNDIRealm to support that Micro$oft returned 'code', instead
of raising an exception. It looks easy :) . You can see below the appointed
catalina log.
Can you supply me any URL, CVS repository, or whatever which points me to the
JNDI source code?.
I have read the JNDI API I must use is the one included in Java sdk 1.4.2.
Last question: Can we solve the 'M$ protocol' issue just using Tomcat 5.0?.
Regards,
Davi Leal
Tim Funk wrote:
I have gotten JNDIRealm to work against iPlanet. I have heard others get it
working against:
- Active Directory (I personally had problems due to some IT policies)
- Novell
- OpenLDAP
But in the worst case - the code is open for change so creating a custom
Realm should be simple if one understands JNDI programming. Which is what I
had to do with respect to ActiveDirectory and wacky business rules vs
domain setup.
-Tim
David Diaz wrote:
Reference: http://www.weblogic.com/docs51/admindocs/ldap2.html#intro
The WebLogic LDAP realm has been tested against the following LDAP
servers:
* OpenLDAP
* iPlanet Directory Server
* Microsoft Site Server
I would like to get a similar Tomcat link to show to my boss.
APPENDIX
The catalina log
59 JNDIRealm[Standalone]: Connecting to URL ldap://host:1003
* Testing with a no-existent user:
44 JNDIRealm[Standalone]: lookupUser(davi)
44 JNDIRealm[Standalone]: dn=cn=davi,ou=Members,o=tpi
44 JNDIRealm[Standalone]: validating credentials by binding as the user
44 JNDIRealm[Standalone]: binding as cn=davi,ou=Members,o=org
44 JNDIRealm[Standalone]: bind attempt failed
44 JNDIRealm[Standalone]: Autentificaci¾n fallida para el usuario davi
* Testing with an user which is right, but using a worng password:
36 JNDIRealm[Standalone]: lookupUser(ph32796)
36 JNDIRealm[Standalone]: dn=cn=ph32796,ou=Members,o=org
36 JNDIRealm[Standalone]: validating credentials by binding as the user
36 JNDIRealm[Standalone]: binding as cn=ph32796,ou=Members,o=org
36 JNDIRealm[Standalone]: bind attempt failed
36 JNDIRealm[Standalone]: Autentificaci¾n fallida para el usuario ph32796
* Testing with both user and password right:
09 JNDIRealm[Standalone]: lookupUser(phe2796)
09 JNDIRealm[Standalone]: dn=cn=phe2796,ou=Members,o=org
09 JNDIRealm[Standalone]: validating credentials by binding as the user
09 JNDIRealm[Standalone]: binding as cn=phe2796,ou=Members,o=org
09 JNDIRealm[Standalone]: Excepci¾n al realizar la autentificaci¾n
javax.naming.CommunicationException: [LDAP: error code 2 - Protocol Error];
remaining name ''
at com.sun.jndi.ldap.LdapCtx.mapErrorCode(LdapCtx.java:2965)
...
09 JNDIRealm[Standalone]: Closing directory context
The realm we are using in server.xml
Realm className=org.apache.catalina.realm.JNDIRealm debug=99
connectionName=cn=PHE2796,ou=Members,o=org
connectionPassword=
connectionURL=ldap://host:1003;
userPattern=cn={0},ou=Members,o=org
userSubtree=true
roleBase=ou=UserCFuncional,ou=CFuncional,ou=Groups,o=org
roleName=cn
roleSearch=(uniqueMember={0})
/
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Tomcat vs Bea WebLogic - (was: Re: What LDAP servers does JNDI realm support?)
Davi Leal wrote:
jerome moliere wrote:
As I am getting [LDAP: error code 2 - Protocol Error] (See below), I
would like to know if that Micro$oft product is a certified LDAP
server.
as fai as i Know, like any other microsoft product, partially... :)
I have been told the LDAP protocol is no-100% a standard. That is to say,
a
lot of providers have realized different offers, which share only 90% of
the specification (the core standard).
Nowdays, it is said, the Netscape's one being the more
recognised/compatible/
standard.
So, my question is now: What LDAP products does the JNDI Tomcat realm
support?
No problem with OpenLDAP ('from my experience), NDS or Sun
implementations seem to work nicely.
For microsoft active directory is quite a LDAP server, but you can't use
the referral paradigm
Reference: http://www.weblogic.com/docs51/admindocs/ldap2.html#intro
The WebLogic LDAP realm has been tested against the following LDAP servers:
* OpenLDAP
* iPlanet Directory Server
* Microsoft Site Server
I would like to get a similar Tomcat link to show to my boss.
Regards,
Davi Leal
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Re: Tomcat vs Bea WebLogic -
I have gotten JNDIRealm to work against iPlanet. I have heard others get it working against: - Active Directory (I personally had problems due to some IT policies) - Novell - OpenLDAP But in the worst case - the code is open for change so creating a custom Realm should be simple if one understands JNDI programming. Which is what I had to do with respect to ActiveDirectory and wacky business rules vs domain setup. -Tim David Diaz wrote: Reference: http://www.weblogic.com/docs51/admindocs/ldap2.html#intro The WebLogic LDAP realm has been tested against the following LDAP servers: * OpenLDAP * iPlanet Directory Server * Microsoft Site Server I would like to get a similar Tomcat link to show to my boss. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Tomcat vs Bea WebLogic -
Thanks Tim for this useful information. I have gotten JNDIRealm to work against iPlanet. I have heard others get it working against: - Active Directory (I personally had problems due to some IT policies) - Novell - OpenLDAP But in the worst case - the code is open for change so creating a custom Realm should be simple if one understands JNDI programming. Which is what I had to do with respect to ActiveDirectory and wacky business rules vs domain setup. David Diaz wrote: Reference: http://www.weblogic.com/docs51/admindocs/ldap2.html#intro The WebLogic LDAP realm has been tested against the following LDAP servers: * OpenLDAP * iPlanet Directory Server * Microsoft Site Server I would like to get a similar Tomcat link to show to my boss. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
