Re: Topband: Receiving +1
Steve, as I have also post stam lot for antennas available I tried various antennas. I have to say most of them does not work! Mainly because of strong coupling between RX and TX antennas on my small lot. After several years I found that as still effective is W2PM Mini Diammond loop or K9FD loop (or similar design) + Half sloper or inverted L antenna with decent radials system both on 160m band. You will not be Topband big gun but You will be on the air and even during good condx and serious antenna on the second side You will be able to work sometime DXs. My 2cents aid if it help, 73 - Petr, OK1RP --- http://topband.blog.cz On Tue, 6 Sep 2011 09:22:36 +0300, hodg...@cytanet.com.cy said: > As I do not have space for a decent receiving > antenna, what is the consensus of opinion on > say txing on 160 and rxing on another band, > what would such a Qso count as ? > > > 73 Steve, ZC4Li. > > ___ > UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: New entry to TopBand with antenna question
The November CQ WW CW DX Contest is the best weekend of the season for 160 meter DX activity, several U.S. stations have worked 100 countries on 160 meters in a single weekend in that one. The CQ WW SSB DX Contest next month also has excellent 160 meter DX activity. The CQ WW DX contests also have much less QRM than the 160 meter contests. 73 Frank W3LPL Original message >Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2011 18:07:53 -0500 >From: K4SAV >Subject: Re: Topband: New entry to TopBand with antenna question >To: topband@contesting.com > >Jim Brown wrote: >> That's a very ambitious objective. It took me three seasons to do it >> when I moved from Chicago to CA, and two more years to get the >> confirmations. It's much easier from W9 than from W6, but it's still >> very ambitious. I'm using an 86 ft Tee vertical (see below) with 70+ >> radials, Beverages for four directions, and 1.5kW. >> >> > >DXCC on 160 in two years from 9 land isn't an unreasonable goal. Start >with one the 160 meter contests and that should start you off with about >40-60 if you look for the DX stations. At the end of one year I had 135 >with a 45 ft high inverted L (from Alabama). However those weren't >confirmed in that length of time. I have high power and a good >receiving antenna. It's tougher for the 6 land guys though. > >Jerry, K4SAV > >___ >UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: New entry to TopBand with antenna question
Since you mentioned a tuner, Buy or build a tuner. I have two that handle 1.5 kw without blinking. One is the murch transmatch which was popular 25 years ago, the other is the ultimate transmatch that is in the handbook. For transmit here I am no longer using either at the moment. For a really cheap solution I have an inverted L that goes up 70 feet and slopes down & out for 65 feet.I cut my inverted L "long' and tune it with a capacitor to electrically shortens it. First I used a large air variable cap. Tuned the antenna rather quickly. I started with 6 on ground radials. Then 12, then 20 and now have 60. I am on a quarter acre lot which means most of these radials are less than 50 feet long and some are only 30 feet long. If you want to work 100 contries in 2 years, That should be easily done (much more difficult if you are only an SSB op).You will need to get in the arrl, cq ww 160 contests as well as the arrl And CQ Dx contests. The plates in my air variable cap started rusting rather soon even though it was in a sealed box. Then I went to separate fixed caps. This worked well but lacks bandwidth. For the 160 contests, 30 - 50 kcs of band width will not "get it" with the dx being found from 1801 - 1910 or so. The better fix for me was to get a motorized Jennings vacuum variable which I use at the feed point and remotely tune the vacuum variable from the shack. Still the fixed value caps will do a good job for you for most of the season. The inverted L is a noisy and poor rx antenna. No room for beverages here, I had good luck with the W2UP rotatable loop turned with an old cdr 44 rotor but the neighbors complain about it so I put it up in October and take it down in march. Timing is on your side as 160 has been fantastic the last few years with W3LPL, K3LR and others working over 100 countries on the CW contest weekends. As someone else mentioned, Beverages are the way to go especially when you have 7 acres to work with. 73 Chet N4FX -Original Message- From: topband-boun...@contesting.com [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Michael G. Carper Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2011 11:06 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: New entry to TopBand with antenna question -Original Message- From: topband-boun...@contesting.com [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Michael G. Carper Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2011 11:06 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: New entry to TopBand with antenna question Hey folks. I've been a ham for 37 years, but I've spent my entire ham "career" on 80-10m (with the exception of 7 countries worked on 160m about ten years ago). For the most part, the same obstacle has kept me off TopBand that prevents most - antenna space. Now that I've made DXCC on all bands 80-10m (and very close on 6m). and since we've recently moved to a place with 7-acres and a nice tall tree-line, I figure my options for 160m are better. That said - we're leasing this place and I've probably got 2-years here. My goal is simple - make DXCC on 160m within the next 2 years. So I'm looking for some advice about the antenna. I'm very tempted to buy a B&W folded dipole and call it done. but I'm curious about what others are doing. I've got an amplifier, but no high-power tuner. So I want to avoid a tuner - the folded dipole seems to get me there and I can put it up at 70' or so in the elm trees. Thoughts? Mike, WA9PIE ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Termination resistor for 160-80- Pennant antenna (Receiveonly)
I agree with Bob. When in Ayer Island, OC-177, 2007, I also used the KD9SV transformer and performed very well indeed. FYI. Jo, YC0LOW On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 12:26 PM, ROBERT HARMON wrote: > > KD9SV offers the transformer and 900 ohm resistor for the pennant antenna, > ready to go, very inexpensive. I am using his kit and works great. > It is stock number SV-PEN on his website: http://www.radiobooks.com/ > > > Bob > K6UJ > > > > > > > On Sep 5, 2011, at 3:10 PM, Hardy Landskov wrote: > > > I used 2--1800 ohm, 1 watt resistors in parallel. The resistance came out > to > > be 920 ohms but close enough to see that the F/B ratio was 25 db or so. > > 73 Hardy N7RT > > > > - Original Message - > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 9:50 AM > > Subject: Topband: Termination resistor for 160-80- Pennant antenna > > (Receiveonly) > > > > > >> The 160-80 pennant antenna calls for a 900 ohm termination resistor. > >> Since 900 is not a standard resistor value, what is the best way to > >> accomplish this? Not enough room for a beverage at this qth! > >> > >> Thanks > >> > >> Allan W2TN > >> ___ > >> UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK > > > > ___ > > UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK > > ___ > UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK > ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Topband: Top band Receiving antennas
I have been on 160 since 1988. It has never been a strong presence because I was never really able to hear well on my long and narrow, 1 acre city lot. Last year I went to a shunt feed on my 100 foot 45G tower. It is festooned with monobanders from 80 to 10 meters. The match is an Omega match with 2000 pfd in series and 1000 pfd to ground (both vacuum variables of course). I have 32 radials at the base & all soldered to a solid copper bus of #04 wire that is clamped to the tower using stainless hardware. It works very well. The 2000 pfd was necessary as the shunt wire cage is only 30 feet in height due to monobanders down to 30 feet. It gets out quite well. Last year I went to the Hi-Z antennas Triangle array (3 phased verticals) and I began to hear like I've never heard before. My previous Ewe's, low dipoles, short beverages, K9AY loops, etc. really did not hear that well by comparison. I had to have the land cleared down the hill beyond the creek so I would be over 100 feet away from the shunt fed tower. One falling tree smoked one of the verticals and a huge March lightening strike smoked all of the electronics. During August I upgraded to a Hi-Z 4-square array (after more brush clearing, etc.). I tried to use the old RG-6/U feed but it had been smoked by lightening, too!! Now the 4-square is up es running and I have arrived at the promised land relative to low band receiving. I can hear stuff I NEVER could here before. The RDF on this antenna is equivalent to 1000 foot beverages, and it is electrically steerable in 4 directions. 73, John, W4NU K4JAG, 1959 to 1998 ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Newbie Antenna Question (long)
On 09/05/2011 11:03 PM, Jim Bennett wrote: > I accept the fact that a vertical antenna is the best bet (for transmitting, > anyway) 160 meters, AND that the Inverted L is basically a vertical antenna. > If that is the case, does this mean that it radiates just like any other > vertical, primarily omnidirectional? If it is omnidirectional, does it matter > in which direction the horizontal portion of an Inverted L is aimed? I can > run mine in either of two different directions; one higher, but not too > stealthy, the other direction a tad lower, but more hidden from the HOA Nazis. > > Oh, and yes, I am planning on installing several long radials. It would > be great if I could plop down 50-100 of 'em, but that isn't realistic, > either! I've already got two strung out along the fence perimeter, and I > might be able to get one or two more put down, providing the XYL doesn't go > ballistic with all the wire strung out around the house. At least she's also > a ham, so she "might" cut me some slack on that part of the project! The double L antenna could be a stealthy alternative too, which does not require radials. It outperforms an inverted L with a smaller number of radials and comes pretty close to the performance of an inverted L with a reasonable number of radials. Depending on how much copper you want to sink into the ground (60+ radials could be a lot of work and I don't know how much time/energy you have), it could go either way. Here is some info on the double L antenna: http://www.yccc.org/Articles/double_l.htm http://surriel.com/radio/160-meter-double-l-antenna As you can see from the photos, it's barely visible. The performance is 6dB (1 S point) below a vertical over perfect ground. That corresponds to maybe 2-3dB below that of an inverted L with 30-70 1/4 wave radials over poor ground. Given that I do not have the space for that many 1/4 wave radials on 160m, I'll take the low effort antenna any day over 2dB more performance for 10x as much work :) You can add radials over time to get some more performance, but the double L does not require them to get started... -- All rights reversed. ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Newbie Antenna Question (long)
On 9/5/2011 8:03 PM, Jim Bennett wrote: > The ARRL Antenna Book, and ON4UN's Low Band DX'ing book, I accept the fact > that a vertical antenna is the best bet (for transmitting, anyway) 160 > meters, AND that the Inverted L is basically a vertical antenna. If that is > the case, does this mean that it radiates just like any other vertical, > primarily omnidirectional? If it is omnidirectional, does it matter in which > direction the horizontal portion of an Inverted L is aimed? The vertical wire is omni and radiates at a low angle, the horizontal wire serves to resonate it and radiates at a high angle (for local contacts). A Tee top to the vertical (rather than the L) provides the same top-loading to resonate the wire, but the radiation from the top section cancels itself out so that only the bottom section is working. Thus, a Tee is a better low-angle antenna. The K6MM vertical is a compromise for when you can't string something into a tree. The wire in the tree is likely to work a lot better. With either, do the best you can with radials and have fun. It's worth trying to make that vertical as tall as practical, given your limitations. Taller means a higher radiation resistance, which means less loss in your radial system. 73, Jim K9YC ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Receiving
The Hi-Z 3 element and 4 element (4 sq) receiving antennas have a comparatively small footprint and provide excellent performance. 73. . .Dave W0FLS - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2011 1:22 AM Subject: Topband: Receiving > As I do not have space for a decent receiving > antenna, what is the consensus of opinion on > say txing on 160 and rxing on another band, > what would such a Qso count as ? > > > 73 Steve, ZC4Li. > > ___ > UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK > ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: New entry to TopBand with antenna question
Hi Mike, The following is assuming that you would not knowingly throw away dB on suboptimal 160 antenna construction, provided the issues were manageable in your situation. I have clear evidence, for years now, that a local 160 QRP operator, with the following issues properly dealt with, outscores and has a louder signal than maybe half the 100 watt 160m signals on the air. I have challenged some of the latter, and from some of them encountered a defensive retort approximately translated "I worked so-and-so DX, so my antenna is fine, thank you." That equates probably to the fact that so-and-so DX had VERY good DXpedition operators and a superior listening setup and THEY made up for the lost dB's that MUST be in some of these transmitting setups. So in interest of those getting in the water for the first time, the thumbnail non-technical version of the nasty math, model and measuring experience follows: You didn't mention whether a tower was one of the supports. Do this antenna in the trees if you can. If you take the L up next to a tower, even spaced 10 or 15 feet, you are actually hard-loading the tower, and you would be better off dealing with loading the tower directly. There are many tower-supports-L situations where models show that there is more current in the tower than the L. Consider the two connected directly by a transformer with a step DOWN ratio from the L to the tower. If the tower does not have a dense radial field out from its base, it will be lossy, EVEN IF you have an excellent elevated radial system from the L. You will be FORCING current from the base of the tower into the dirt, and along every tower conductor, presumably buried or laying on the dirt. It's a PITA to model, but the results are almost always bad in the model and careful culling of tales from the field confirm it. You are throwing away dB's you could otherwise use to get to that new country that's close to the noise in your RX. I've gotten tower/dirt combo's in models to kill 4 or 5 dB, and models tend to UNDERESTIMATE dirt loss. Beside the tower base to dirt loss, there is the problem that no matter whether radials are from the tower, or from the L, now the radial current can no longer be opposite phase and current equal to the COMBINATION of the tower and vertical currents, which is a complex addition of unequal phase and unequal amplitude. The radials will have the feedline phase and amplitude. Now even more current is induced in lossy tower vicinity dirt. If you have a tower on the property, put your 160 L as far away from it as possible, and if you MUST use the tower as one support because that's all you can do, then use the tower to support the far end of the horizontal, to minimize forced current in the tower. ** Do not use the tower to support the vertical run. ** But read on if vertical run is not supported by a tower. If you can get up 12 elevated radials, then try to get up 16 to 20 instead. That will give you a "near dense radials" rating, good to the point of diminishing returns. If you can do 30, then do it, getting you that last dB shard transmitting. Make sure that the radials are 1) all the same height and 2) same length, and 3), IMPORTANTLY, that they are equally spaced around the compass. You are constructing a device that is creating a counter-field to the RF field. The field from the vertical radiator is already smoothly distributed at the dirt. The 16-20 is to get the field from the radials smoothly distributed at the dirt, opposite phased, and smoothly and more totally cancel out. 30 is to get that cancellation out past diminishing returns. After that, there are a number of good multi-impedance Ununs that will have 28, 22 and 16 ohm matching configurations or something like that and will deliver a good match. I assume you are going to trim the horizontal part of the L for resonance. Then just use the Unun connectors that deliver the best SWR. Then immediately use a common mode current block rated at 160 meters on the shack side of the Unun, and then ground the shield of the feed coax on the shack side of the common mode current block, about 20 to 25 feet away from the antenna. Do not ground the antenna on the antenna side of the current block. You alread have DC grounding through the Unum, common mode block, coax shield, and shield ground. This will isolate the antenna from feed line common mode noise, AND keep the feedline shield from accepting counterpoise directed antenna current. You want the energy on the elevated radial wires to be equal to the energy on the vertical wire, at the feedpoint. If an unblocked feedline just happened to show a low Z, it can siphon off energy from the radials. Now the field from the radial current and the opposite field from the vertical radiator's current are NOT equal, and the field is is only partially cancelled, and you have lossy induced current in the dirt underneath. Why NOT start off with everything done right? Add
Re: Topband: New entry to TopBand with antenna question
Pardon me for asking a dumb question... but how do you guys switch between the beverage antenna and the inverted-L... given that your XCVR has only a single antenna port for both TX/RX? Mike, WA9PIE -Original Message- From: Michael G. Carper [mailto:m...@wa9pie.net] Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 8:01 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: RE: Topband: New entry to TopBand with antenna question Okay... great responses all. Here's what I think I'm gonna do... I'll go vertical with an inverted L. I'm thinking to be resonant around 1.825MHz, I'll need about 128.2' of wire. I'll go up about 70'... then the rest will be almost exactly horizontal. I'll go with at least a dozen elevated radials about 134.8' long. I'll terminate those at a post where I'll have an insulator for the "driven element" and one where the radials terminate. I'll stick an SO-239 there to make things easy. I figure this should be resonant at the chosen frequency. Later, I'll put up at least one beverage antenna for receive (but there's no way I'll have a chance to do that initially). Does that sound reasonable as a starting position? Thanks to all who talked me out of the B&W Folded Dipole. Mike, WA9PIE -Original Message- From: topband-boun...@contesting.com [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Michael G. Carper Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2011 11:06 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: New entry to TopBand with antenna question Hey folks. I've been a ham for 37 years, but I've spent my entire ham "career" on 80-10m (with the exception of 7 countries worked on 160m about ten years ago). For the most part, the same obstacle has kept me off TopBand that prevents most - antenna space. Now that I've made DXCC on all bands 80-10m (and very close on 6m). and since we've recently moved to a place with 7-acres and a nice tall tree-line, I figure my options for 160m are better. That said - we're leasing this place and I've probably got 2-years here. My goal is simple - make DXCC on 160m within the next 2 years. So I'm looking for some advice about the antenna. I'm very tempted to buy a B&W folded dipole and call it done. but I'm curious about what others are doing. I've got an amplifier, but no high-power tuner. So I want to avoid a tuner - the folded dipole seems to get me there and I can put it up at 70' or so in the elm trees. Thoughts? Mike, WA9PIE ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
