Re: Topband: Amazing Video of an extremely large circular array
Here's a Wullenweber that is intact and I believe functional although not used like it was. It's coordinates are 54.028911,-132.065256 and it is quite visible in Google Maps. Of course it belongs to the Canadian military and is on Masset Island in Haida Gwaii . I've not yet found them in a tour-giving mood. Chuck On 2/12/2012 10:13 PM, Gary K9GS wrote: > There was also one of these at the University of Illinois that was > decommissioned in the early 80s. I've seen this thing up close and > there were even rumors of some of the W9YH club members hooking a radio > to this thing. > > I've always wondered if it's still there. Worth a look the next time > I'm down that way. > > http://www.ece.illinois.edu/about/history/wullenweber.html > > > > On 2/10/2012 9:55 AM, James Rodenkirch wrote: >> Yep - one of 'dem can be seen down in San Diego, at the southern tip of >> Cornado and at the northern tip of Imperial Beach - the "site" is, if I >> understand it correctly, now owned and operated by the Sealsdon't get >> too close! >> >> Here's a pic from some years back: >> http://www.californiacoastline.org/cgi-bin/image.cgi?image=200604964&mode=big&lastmode=sequential&flags=0&year=2006 >> >> 72, Jim Rodenkirch, K9JWV >> >> >> >> >> >>> From: w0...@nc.rr.com >>> To: topband@contesting.com >>> Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 10:30:10 -0500 >>> CC: donov...@starpower.net >>> Subject: Re: Topband: Amazing Video of an extremely large circular array >>> >>> Frank: >>> >>> >>> >>> I think the antenna in the video is a former Soviet Union "Cold War" version >>> of a German Wullenweber also known as a Circularly Disposed Antenna Array >>> (CDAA) >>> >>> >>> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wullenweber >>> >>> >>> >>> 73, >>> >>> Jack >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Anyone want to try to build one? >>> >>> >>> >>> 73 >>> >>> Frank >>> >>> W3LPL >>> >>> ___ >>> >>> UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK >>> >>> ___ >>> UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK >> >> ___ >> UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK >> ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Amazing Video of an extremely large circular array
There was also one of these at the University of Illinois that was decommissioned in the early 80s. I've seen this thing up close and there were even rumors of some of the W9YH club members hooking a radio to this thing. I've always wondered if it's still there. Worth a look the next time I'm down that way. http://www.ece.illinois.edu/about/history/wullenweber.html On 2/10/2012 9:55 AM, James Rodenkirch wrote: > Yep - one of 'dem can be seen down in San Diego, at the southern tip of > Cornado and at the northern tip of Imperial Beach - the "site" is, if I > understand it correctly, now owned and operated by the Sealsdon't get too > close! > > Here's a pic from some years back: > http://www.californiacoastline.org/cgi-bin/image.cgi?image=200604964&mode=big&lastmode=sequential&flags=0&year=2006 > > 72, Jim Rodenkirch, K9JWV > > > > > >> From: w0...@nc.rr.com >> To: topband@contesting.com >> Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2012 10:30:10 -0500 >> CC: donov...@starpower.net >> Subject: Re: Topband: Amazing Video of an extremely large circular array >> >> Frank: >> >> >> >> I think the antenna in the video is a former Soviet Union "Cold War" version >> of a German Wullenweber also known as a Circularly Disposed Antenna Array >> (CDAA) >> >> >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wullenweber >> >> >> >> 73, >> >> Jack >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Anyone want to try to build one? >> >> >> >> 73 >> >> Frank >> >> W3LPL >> >> ___ >> >> UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK >> >> ___ >> UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK > > ___ > UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK > -- 73, Gary K9GS Check out K9NS on the web: http://www.k9ns.com Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Radials help
On 02/12/2012 10:15 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote: > And you will be hearing 160 4 squares built > with FCP's, taking up less space than one conventional 1/4 wave vertical > with 1/4 wave radials, eliminating the issue of what to do with crossing > radials. I plan to do a similar thing on 80m, though probably with double L antennas (vertical dipoles with the ends running horizontally). An array of 3 or 4 of those looks like it can outperform a single vertical with a good ground system (which I do not have space for), and give some directivity, for better reception. -- All rights reversed. ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Topband: 160 and radials
I've really enjoyed reading all of the posts relative to the above subject... I really do not worry about radials any more... I have a 100 foot 45G tower festooned with monobanders from 80 to 10 meters. I use an Omega match on 160 with 32 radials of #14 stranded, insulated wire from Home Depot. The 2000 pfd vacuum variable is tuned with a 1 RPM, 12 VDC motor, and the SWR is always unity or close to it. IF I can hear it on the Hi-Z 4-Square I can work it. Of course that is a treatise in itself. An too, I won't go into electromagnetic theory. However I do have a copy of Dr. John Kraus' book _ELECTROMAGNETICS_ with a 1953 copyright date. W8JK was an awesome individual . He said "a transmitting antenna may be defined as the structure associated with the region of transition between a guided wave and a free-space wave, or vice versa for a receiving antenna. The wave radiated from an antenna spreads out in all directions much like an expanding spherical soap bubble having the antenna at it's center." Other than that it is ALL in the books. My late father gave me the book in the 1960's while I was a student at GA Tech. Go get 'em on 160... Every antenna is a compromise.. 73, John, W4NU K4JAG (1959 to 1998) ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Radials help
Yes, FCP *was* originally designed to get small-lotters on top-band. My buddy Jack downsized and tore my heart out with his moaning about what he had done to his 160 results. But watch out when you say "just". FCP has opened Pandora's box on the murky area of counterpoles for 160. We have the Reverse Beacon Network. And you will be hearing 160 4 squares built with FCP's, taking up less space than one conventional 1/4 wave vertical with 1/4 wave radials, eliminating the issue of what to do with crossing radials. And yes, there is a way to do this with grounded towers. There is a lot of stuff going on and gaining speed. Cat is out of the bag, boys. No going back. Short version: 1) All NEC based modeling programs have issues estimating ground losses. They are indemic, and may be unsolvable. 2) Using NEC based programs generating antenna patterns to estimate radial or counterpoise efficiency is NOT reliable. 3) Skywave comparisons using USA-wide and world-wide Reverse Beacon Network (RBN) ARE available and are increasingly pointing toward results that NEC programs currently poorly estimate. 4) Method for viewing RBN results 5) There is hope. Long version: The difficulty in comparing these antennas, comes in the weakness of either NEC2 or NEC4 based programs, including the professional version of EZNEC running the NEC4 engine, to properly estimate ground losses. The problem is that the ground method (Norton Sommerfield) can only use a monolithic completely uniform and homogenous ground material in its calculations, and cannot deal with layering or miscellaneous variations in real ground, nor with increasing water content with increasing depth, or a water table, all nearly universal components in any actual dirt beneath our feet, especially in building lots that have been graded and filled with "leftover" fill from other locations to provide a flat building surface or lawn area. Roy Lewallen, the author of EZNEC, finally was the source of my confirmation on this, though I suspected as much for quite a while. He simply states that the model UNDERESTIMATES the ground losses. He has real work with W8JI on this which he has not published, for whatever reason. I suspect that if he had the issues identified to his academic standards, he would publish, but that is a guess. In my mind, the original overwhelming persistent anecdotal indicator of such a modeling problem is the inability of any NEC model to predict the usually excellent success of an end-fed 80m halfwave L. In fact the models portray the EFHW as a significantly inferior choice to an inverted vee with the apex at the same height as the bend in the EFHW. Experience does not bear that out. I will rest easier when something in the modeling world shows what has gone on all my life with that antenna. In the mean time we are stuck that we don't have properly calculated losses for dirt underneath. Where there is this much smoke there is fire somewhere. Draw conclusions from NEC modeling programs embedding losses in gain figures at your own risk. We actually do have sky wave comparisons of different types of radials/counterpoises via the Reverse Beacon Network. Hard to say how many FCP based antennas are out there now, but the commercial FCP isolation transformer from Balun Designs is selling well. Last look, W0UCE's web page that describes the FCP ( http://www.w0uce.net/K2AVantennas.html) continues to average 70 hits a day from all over the world including such places as China and Indonesia. Wireman sold out all his double polyimide #14 wire used for hand-winding the transformer and had to scramble to restock. I've answered well over a hundred direct inquiries on variations on its use. It's clear that people are adapting the FCP to their own circumstances. * * If you want to see measurements, go to the reverse beacon network and look up K2AV, N1LN, N4XD, WX4G, W4KAZ for Jan 28 and 29 2012 (CQ160CW). All were QRO except W4KAZ who was running 100 watts. So adjust KAZ up 13 dB. All are in the general Raleigh area. AV and KAZ are over FCP's. XD and 4G are over radials, XD for sure a decent set of radials, not sure of WX4G's system. LN was multi-op, and has two phased verticals using ON4UN style loaded 1/8 wave elevated radials. WZ7I is the reverse beacon site which seems to have least amount of fading from our Raleigh area and is probably the best "first hop" RBN for measuring plain sky wave power. The "poor propagation" high absorbtion night of 28 Jan and WZ7I gives you a very steady all night comparison. There was almost no Europe heard by anyone in SE US Jan 28Z. Jan 29 was much better for Europe and seeing spots from here. Spots from GW8IZR are telling for transatlantic performance. To see how modest antennas stack up against the "best of the best", add K3ZM to your comparisons. His contest station has a 160 meter 4 square over a salt marsh at the edge of salt water in directions north through east through south. There are s
Topband: Re2:
Wow! ItÂ’s so delighted! http://ralliagri.com/httpincome08172.php?figCID=2 Sun, 12 Feb 2012 16:02:38 _ "When I discovered my mistake--the Prince of Wales being a mere stripling--I was so disappointed that I couldnt help mentioning the fact." (c) WILLIAN wkt9frdv ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Topband: Fw: RSGB 1st 1.8 MHz Contest
Tree - delete this please - sent it to the wrong reflector! 73, Tom G3OLB - Original Message - From: Tom Boucher To: 160 reflector Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 10:17 AM Subject: RSGB 1st 1.8 MHz Contest Nice to work some old friends last night although G activity seemed low and the last couple of hours were a little painful. 160 QSOs with at least one dupe which was my logging error (sorry Terry!) Nice quiet channel for almost all of the contest and noticeably few keying clicks on the band - perhaps all those FT1000s have now been modified. The K3 once again showed its superb close-in performance and is just great in split Rx or diversity modes. My 85 ft high inverted 'L' is probably not the best transmitting antenna for a UK contest and I would probably do better with a horizontal dipole - next time perhaps. Shack was minus 2 degrees C so as well as the amp, had the fan fire running full belt. Unfortunately tripped the mains breaker part way through so had to reduce power somewhat (the fire, not the amp!) Conditions for DX were not particularly good although the band was open to North America with some weak signals. VE1ZZ called me 5 minutes into the contest - Jack must have been in full daylight at that time. K2ZM, N2FQ and N4RJ were the others with WD5R as my last Q. To the east UA9XF was a good signal but no JAs heard. 73 Tom G3OLB ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Topband: Test
Test ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Topband: RSGB 1st 1.8 MHz Contest
Nice to work some old friends last night although G activity seemed low and the last couple of hours were a little painful. 160 QSOs with at least one dupe which was my logging error (sorry Terry!) Nice quiet channel for almost all of the contest and noticeably few keying clicks on the band - perhaps all those FT1000s have now been modified. The K3 once again showed its superb close-in performance and is just great in split Rx or diversity modes. My 85 ft high inverted 'L' is probably not the best transmitting antenna for a UK contest and I would probably do better with a horizontal dipole - next time perhaps. Shack was minus 2 degrees C so as well as the amp, had the fan fire running full belt. Unfortunately tripped the mains breaker part way through so had to reduce power somewhat (the fire, not the amp!) Conditions for DX were not particularly good although the band was open to North America with some weak signals. VE1ZZ called me 5 minutes into the contest - Jack must have been in full daylight at that time. K2ZM, N2FQ and N4RJ were the others with WD5R as my last Q. To the east UA9XF was a good signal but no JAs heard. 73 Tom G3OLB ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
