Re: Topband: HK0NA on LOTW
Yes. - Original Message - From: "Chortek, Robert L" To: Cc: Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 2:26 PM Subject: Re: Topband: HK0NA on LOTW Has anyone received a LOTW confirmation fir HK0 yet? Bob AA6VB Sent from my iPhone On Aug 11, 2012, at 11:42 AM, "Jim N7US" wrote: > Additional info about the missing Q’s can be found at > http://www.sjdxa.org/hk0na.htm . > > 73, Jim N7US > > > > -Original Message- > From: wa3...@comcast.net [mailto:wa3...@comcast.net] > > For those of you that use LOTW, HK0NA logs were supposedly uploaded to > LOTW today. Having said that I didnt get 160 confirmed as yet even tho I > am in their log books. I am guessing it takes a long time to process > 195000 QSOs in the LOTW system so I will wait a day or two before I start > writing people to see whats up. > > > > ___ > UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Radials through heavy brush (Was:Radials over a stone wall)
Another economical and light weight method of pushing wire through brush would be to use a 10' piece of 1/2" PVC or plastic electrical conduit. In the case of the electrical conduit it can be extended by adding multiple pieces together for greater length. It's lite weight and flexible enough to bounce it with one hand over things like roots or stones that might get in the way. If you don't want to carry 10' lengths of plastic pipes around, look in the big box stores or electrical suppliers for threaded push rods made of fiberglass. Typically they come in 4' sections with 4 or 5 in pack that threat one onto the other and are brightly colored. That makes it easy to find in the leaves and twigs. Just tape your wire on to the end and push. Autumn is coming, time to get those TB antennas back in the air. W7JW -Original Message- From: Dean Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 4:01 PM Cc: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Radials through heavy brush (Was:Radials over a stone wall) Brilliant Gary! Dean K3GGN ~~~ On 8/10/2012 11:16 PM, Gary K9GS wrote: > Here's how I lay radials in the woods with heavy brush. > > I have a ~15 foot long piece of wooden oak stairway handrail. The kind > you see for basement stairs. It's about 2 inches in diameter and has a > flat on one side so it's D shaped in cross section. > > With the flat facing down, cut a bevel on each end at a ~30-45 degree > angle to the flat. Looking from the side it looks kinda like this: > > <___> > > In each end I screw in a small screw eye. > > To lay a radial, lay the handrail on the ground, flat side down, and tie > the radial to either screw eye. If there is a lot of "stuff" to go > through that's close to the ground it's easier to tie the radial to the > trailing screw eye. Then, keeping the flat on the ground use the > handrail like a needle to thread it under/through the brush. You can > sometimes give it a good push and it will go right through. This is > where it helps to have a longer/heavier handrail. > > Then I work my way around the brush pile and get to the end of the > handrail. Then just untie the wire. I usually tie the end of the wire > to a 3-4 inch long nail and just push the nail into the ground to hold > the end in place. > > The length of the handrail also helps to keep the radials evenly > spaced. You can keep the end closest to the antenna aligned with the > base and use the previously laid radial as a guide to keep things even. > > Wear a long-sleeved shirt or your arms will look like you were in a cat > fight. Around here (Wisconsin) our brush is typically "Buckthorn" which > is covered with 1/4 inch long very sharp thorns > > This works really well for me...YMMV > ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Radials through heavy brush (Was:Radials over a stone wall)
Brilliant Gary! Dean K3GGN ~~~ On 8/10/2012 11:16 PM, Gary K9GS wrote: > Here's how I lay radials in the woods with heavy brush. > > I have a ~15 foot long piece of wooden oak stairway handrail. The kind > you see for basement stairs. It's about 2 inches in diameter and has a > flat on one side so it's D shaped in cross section. > > With the flat facing down, cut a bevel on each end at a ~30-45 degree > angle to the flat. Looking from the side it looks kinda like this: > > <___> > > In each end I screw in a small screw eye. > > To lay a radial, lay the handrail on the ground, flat side down, and tie > the radial to either screw eye. If there is a lot of "stuff" to go > through that's close to the ground it's easier to tie the radial to the > trailing screw eye. Then, keeping the flat on the ground use the > handrail like a needle to thread it under/through the brush. You can > sometimes give it a good push and it will go right through. This is > where it helps to have a longer/heavier handrail. > > Then I work my way around the brush pile and get to the end of the > handrail. Then just untie the wire. I usually tie the end of the wire > to a 3-4 inch long nail and just push the nail into the ground to hold > the end in place. > > The length of the handrail also helps to keep the radials evenly > spaced. You can keep the end closest to the antenna aligned with the > base and use the previously laid radial as a guide to keep things even. > > Wear a long-sleeved shirt or your arms will look like you were in a cat > fight. Around here (Wisconsin) our brush is typically "Buckthorn" which > is covered with 1/4 inch long very sharp thorns > > This works really well for me...YMMV > ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: HK0NA on LOTW
Yes, 8 QSLs out of 10 QSOs including 160. Put me over the top for 160 DXCC. 73 Joe K2UF No trees were harmed in the sending of this e-mail; however, many electrons were inconvenienced. -Original Message- From: topband-boun...@contesting.com [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Chortek, Robert L Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 3:27 PM To: Cc: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: HK0NA on LOTW Has anyone received a LOTW confirmation fir HK0 yet? Bob AA6VB Sent from my iPhone On Aug 11, 2012, at 11:42 AM, "Jim N7US" wrote: > Additional info about the missing Q's can be found at http://www.sjdxa.org/hk0na.htm . > > 73, Jim N7US > > > > -Original Message- > From: wa3...@comcast.net [mailto:wa3...@comcast.net] > > For those of you that use LOTW, HK0NA logs were supposedly uploaded to LOTW today. Having said that I didnt get 160 confirmed as yet even tho I am in their log books. I am guessing it takes a long time to process 195000 QSOs in the LOTW system so I will wait a day or two before I start writing people to see whats up. > > > > ___ > UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: HK0NA on LOTW
Yes plenty of them for me on LOTW! Herb, KV4FZ On 8/11/2012 3:26 PM, Chortek, Robert L wrote: > Has anyone received a LOTW confirmation fir HK0 yet? > > Bob AA6VB > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 11, 2012, at 11:42 AM, "Jim N7US" wrote: > >> Additional info about the missing Q’s can be found at >> http://www.sjdxa.org/hk0na.htm . >> >> 73, Jim N7US >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wa3...@comcast.net [mailto:wa3...@comcast.net] >> >> For those of you that use LOTW, HK0NA logs were supposedly uploaded to LOTW >> today. Having said that I didnt get 160 confirmed as yet even tho I am in >> their log books. I am guessing it takes a long time to process 195000 QSOs >> in the LOTW system so I will wait a day or two before I start writing people >> to see whats up. >> >> >> >> ___ >> UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK > ___ > UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: HK0NA on LOTW
Has anyone received a LOTW confirmation fir HK0 yet? Bob AA6VB Sent from my iPhone On Aug 11, 2012, at 11:42 AM, "Jim N7US" wrote: > Additional info about the missing Q’s can be found at > http://www.sjdxa.org/hk0na.htm . > > 73, Jim N7US > > > > -Original Message- > From: wa3...@comcast.net [mailto:wa3...@comcast.net] > > For those of you that use LOTW, HK0NA logs were supposedly uploaded to LOTW > today. Having said that I didnt get 160 confirmed as yet even tho I am in > their log books. I am guessing it takes a long time to process 195000 QSOs > in the LOTW system so I will wait a day or two before I start writing people > to see whats up. > > > > ___ > UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Topband: HK0NA on LOTW
Additional info about the missing Q’s can be found at http://www.sjdxa.org/hk0na.htm . 73, Jim N7US -Original Message- From: wa3...@comcast.net [mailto:wa3...@comcast.net] For those of you that use LOTW, HK0NA logs were supposedly uploaded to LOTW today. Having said that I didnt get 160 confirmed as yet even tho I am in their log books. I am guessing it takes a long time to process 195000 QSOs in the LOTW system so I will wait a day or two before I start writing people to see whats up. ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: RX 4 SQ Phasing
> This for instance > http://www.aytechnologies.com/TechData/ShortBev.htm There isn 't enough detail in the description to understand the model and the plots fully. A 560 foot long "beverage" on 175 kHz has about 15 dB null off the sides at 5 degrees wave angle, and a few dB F/B at low angles. The mode is the same as the K9AY, flag, EWE, and many other antennas use. It acts like two short top-loaded verticals phased, and fires opposite normal direction. You can find bad places as frequency is varied, at different angles and directions, but it is pretty tough to find a spot where any antenna has no nulls at all. > >It isn't in "Beverage mode", but it is in a mode that offers >> directivity. >> >> They work that way, too. > > And what mode is that? Yes they work suprisingly well at LF, so well in > fact that I can seperate stations on the same frequency, NDB's or the LF > BCB. No doubt. It models to be able to do that with 15 mS/m earth, or 1 mS/m earth. Mine act that way too, and they acted that way every place I ever lived. >> Certainly they are not good antennas in comparison to something full >> size, >> and are not acting as a Beverage, but they do have pronounced directivity >> at >> lower wave angles. > > > At LF its not much different than a BOG on 160 and its obvious that no > pattern reversal takes place. > Prior to these antennas the 175' Slinky also had good directivity on LF. > > Ive seen no models that explain this. Everything is explainable. Nothing is magic, and very little (much to all of our regrets) is a special gift, except being out away from noise, or moving close to where we want to communicate. > Thats always been my starting point, try it, then understand why, and then > improve it. It's all about phase shift and current. Nothing is magic. For example, we sometimes feel good because an antenna has noticeable F/B over 10 octaves. That really tells different people different things. It tells me the phasing is far from optimum directivity phase at the high end of the pattern frequency range. If I wanted the best 160 and 80 meter antenna, I would intentionally forego a significant back null on 400 meters. If I wanted a wideband null to never hear a certain direction more than raw S/N ratio on 160 and 80, I'd use that delay. It really all depends on what our goal is. 73 Tom ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: RX 4 SQ Phasing
Please elaborate! The LF stations you are likely to receive would all be from Europe or Mediteranean countries in N. Africa. From your location, I wonder how you would get enough directivity to separate them. Chuck On 8/11/2012 9:40 AM, ZR wrote: > And what mode is that? Yes they work suprisingly well at LF, so well in fact > that I can seperate stations on the same frequency, NDB's or the LF BCB. > ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: RX 4 SQ Phasing
On Sat, 2012-08-11 at 09:44 -0400, Tom W8JI wrote: ---snip--- > > Mostly what we find, when we cut through all the emotion, is we try to find > a way to justify why our locations and antennas are somehow "special". ---snip--- > 73 Tom > Hi, My antennas are indeed special. They fit in a rectangle 100 feet long by 35 feet wide. That I can work any stations at all on 160 and hear stations on 600 meters is - *special*. I have been taking notes to see what I can adapt to my postage stamp for improvements. 73, Bill ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: RX 4 SQ Phasing
- Original Message - From: "Tom W8JI" To: Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 11:43 AM Subject: Re: Topband: RX 4 SQ Phasing >> ** That doesnt make sense since the books, etc claim virtually no >> directivity at a 1/4 wave. At 175 KHz a 1/4 wave is 1406'. > > > I don't know what "books, etc" that comes from, but even over fairly good > soil a 600-foot "Beverage" models to have about 18 dB side null and a few > dB > F/B at 175 kHz. This for instance http://www.aytechnologies.com/TechData/ShortBev.htm >It isn't in "Beverage mode", but it is in a mode that offers > directivity. > > They work that way, too. And what mode is that? Yes they work suprisingly well at LF, so well in fact that I can seperate stations on the same frequency, NDB's or the LF BCB. > Certainly they are not good antennas in comparison to something full size, > and are not acting as a Beverage, but they do have pronounced directivity > at > lower wave angles. At LF its not much different than a BOG on 160 and its obvious that no pattern reversal takes place. Prior to these antennas the 175' Slinky also had good directivity on LF. Ive seen no models that explain this. > > This is why people should never give up, and should experiment with the > best > they can do. Even if it doesn't work close to right, it can make people > happy. > > 73 Tom Thats always been my starting point, try it, then understand why, and then improve it. Carl KM1H ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Topband: Radials over a stone wall
Good morning to everyone A technique I've seen used to go under a road or surface obstruction is to dig work-pit holes on opposite sides and use a hydraulic-jack laying on its side with its base pressing against a steel-plate or block of wood positioned against the back-side of the access pit. The jack's extending-post then presses against the end of a 'penetration pipe' whose length is increased by adding additional sections. If the soil is basically rock-free you could use a garden hose with one of those axially-thin adjustable spray nozzles set to generate a thin jet of water and feed it under the object. This technique might require a nozzle fitted on the end of a two-foot long guide-pipe to keep the path pretty straight. The eroded dirt flows back out of the hole along the hose/pipe into your work pit. As a kid I lost about 20-feet of hose digging a 'hole' straight into the ground after turning off the water and the slurry settled in around the hose... 73 Dick/w7wkr/CN98pi ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: RX 4 SQ Phasing
> ** That doesnt make sense since the books, etc claim virtually no > directivity at a 1/4 wave. At 175 KHz a 1/4 wave is 1406'. I don't know what "books, etc" that comes from, but even over fairly good soil a 600-foot "Beverage" models to have about 18 dB side null and a few dB F/B at 175 kHz. It isn't in "Beverage mode", but it is in a mode that offers directivity. They work that way, too. Certainly they are not good antennas in comparison to something full size, and are not acting as a Beverage, but they do have pronounced directivity at lower wave angles. This is why people should never give up, and should experiment with the best they can do. Even if it doesn't work close to right, it can make people happy. 73 Tom ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Radials over a stone wall
- Original Message - From: "Mike Waters" To: ; "topband" Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 11:04 AM Subject: Re: Topband: Radials over a stone wall > On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 9:10 AM, Herb Schoenbohm > wrote: > >> When drilling in stone to prevent overheating of the drill bit and tip >> consider using water as a coolant. >> > > You have to be careful doing that. Some types of carbide will instantly > crack from the thermal shock of cooling too fast. It's better just to > retract the drill a lot so that the grooves in the drill bit don't plug > up; > that's what generates a lot of heat. Cleaning out the grooves and hole on a regular basis is all Ive ever done and the bit is over 20 years old and still does the job. Its easy to tell when it needs cleaning as the progress slows down. Carl KM1H ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Radials over a stone wall
On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 9:10 AM, Herb Schoenbohm wrote: > When drilling in stone to prevent overheating of the drill bit and tip > consider using water as a coolant. > You have to be careful doing that. Some types of carbide will instantly crack from the thermal shock of cooling too fast. It's better just to retract the drill a lot so that the grooves in the drill bit don't plug up; that's what generates a lot of heat. The other thing that came to mind was to use a curved piece of pipe or tubing as a water drill. One end open, the other end hooked to a garden hose. The radius would have to be fairly constant in order not to bind in the hole. Hey, you could put a gopher in a bottomless cage on one side, and some food on the other. When he burrows under the wall to get at the food, you can run your radials through his burrow. ;-) Seriously, will it really matter if we run it up 48", over 24", and down 48"? Maybe it would if we wanted to use the radials on higher bands, but on 160? Just parallel some wires like Tom suggested, to keep the inductance down. I don't think we even know how far from the vertical the wall is. If the wall is short enough, far enough away, and/or at angle, a few radials bent or missing in the direction of the wall might not even matter. 73, Mike www.w0btu.com ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: RX 4 SQ Phasing
- Original Message - From: "Tom W8JI" To: Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 11:45 PM Subject: Re: Topband: RX 4 SQ Phasing > >I use 5 two wire Beverages for 10 directions and have good directivity > >down >> to the 175 KHz LF BCB and they are only 500-700' long. Performance seems >> to >> exceed published info. On the US BCB its like aiming a long yagi on 2M, >> multiple stations on the same frequency can be heard with ease during the >> day. > > If any of us **really** had an antenna as sharp as a long Yagi, we'd need > 16 > or more antennas to cover useful directions. ** More like 24, my 70cm yagis are 15 degrees. > > That's pretty typical behavior for a properly installed Beverage no matter > what the location, unless you park it over saltwater. > > 73 Tom ** That doesnt make sense since the books, etc claim virtually no directivity at a 1/4 wave. At 175 KHz a 1/4 wave is 1406'. Carl KM1H > > ___ > UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK > > > - > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2437/5192 - Release Date: 08/10/12 > ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Radials over a stone wall
When drilling in stone to prevent overheating of the drill bit and tip consider using water as a coolant. Herb, KV4FZ On 8/11/2012 9:22 AM, W2PM wrote: > Be real careful when drilling at those seam points tho as the bit can get > stuck when hitting the harder area around the joint and if your holding on > with both hands it will twist your arms around real good. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Aug 10, 2012, at 16:20, "ZR" wrote: > >> Rent a hammer drill with a 1/2" or 3/4" bit and an extension. Takes about 15 >> minutes a hole as long as you have AC out there. My 3/4" bit is 12" long and >> Ive used it several times to bust up big boulders at or near the surface in >> the yard. >> >> Start at a point where there is space between 2 rocks to minimize the >> effort. This is a job where you sit on the ground to work and then lay down >> when tired and keep drilling! >> >> Carl >> KM1H >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Herb Schoenbohm" >> To: "N2TK, Tony" >> Cc: "'topband'" >> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 3:32 PM >> Subject: Re: Topband: Radials over a stone wall >> >> >>> Tony, no need to fret about drilling. I would say than going under is >>> better than going over. The crews who do direct burial for cable TV and >>> fiber have special directional drill attachments that you should try to >>> borrow. the will go straight down along the wall until they get to the >>> dirt under the wall, find their way under the wall and come up on the >>> other side. You just a need a few of these connector and for them it is >>> something they do all the time under highways, concrete drainage and >>> sidewalks, as a matter of their work. >>> >>> If you want to DIY you could also excavate as much as possible on both >>> sides, take some 8 foot ground rods and drive them at an angle drive >>> with a sledge on each side and see if you can "establish contact". Fill >>> both sides of the pilot holes with rock salt, the water them for several >>> days. Eventually you should have a fairly low resistance connection >>> from one rod to the other, even if they do not touch. Connect you >>> radials to both ground rods. Only problem with the rock salt is it will >>> eventually each away at the copper covered steel rod. But you should be >>> good for a year or two. >>> >>> Before I get royally flamed here and subjected to humiliation by not >>> having this advice peer reviewed, let me suggest that this method has >>> never been tested by me and probably not by anyone else. >>> >>> >>> Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 8/10/2012 2:21 PM, N2TK, Tony wrote: Thanks Bill and Herb about drilling a hole through the wall. That could be tough. It is a stone wall with no mortar. It is about 20-28" thick. It is well constructed with large field stones. It would be rough to drill through all of that. I had thought about taking portion of the wall apart but figured I would never get it back to looking as good as it does now. The stones go fairly deep so not much chance of going under the wall. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Bill Wichers [mailto:bi...@waveform.net] Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 12:26 PM To: N2TK, Tony; topband Subject: RE: Topband: Radials over a stone wall I would expect an "up and over" to clear the wall would result in a choke-like effect on the radial and would, at best, reduce the radial's effectiveness. It should be easy to just drill some small (maybe 1/4"?) holes through the wall in a few places to pass the radials through. With a decent hammer drill and a carbide bit a small hole like that is pretty quick and easy to complete -- even in concrete or stone. Then just use a piece of coathanger wire as a wire fishing tool to run the radials through the hole. I use a wire pulling tool called a "creep-zit" to pull radials under fallen trees and logs in the woods. It works great. I basically just take one of the 6 foot long fiberglass rods (each of which is a little over 1/8" diameter), tape the radial to one end, and then I can push it under fallen debris easily. With a little practice you can even get around hidden obstructions in the ground this way. -Bill > I shunt feed my tower for topband. I use variable vacuum caps and a vacuum > relay at the base to switch between the low end and the high end of the > band. It seems to work okay. I have 100' buried radials spaced 10' at the > ends from o degrees going clockwise through about 220 degrees. I have a 4' > high stone wall that runs about 20/200 degrees that is about 35' at its > closest point to the tower. So the radials are progressively shorter on > the > West side of the tower. > > > > I am making an assumption that goi
Re: Topband: RX 4 SQ Phasing
> I'm not sure I'd go too far with the FCC map. At my QTH, which is shown > as average, actual ground/earth varies within a hundred feet from deep > old riverbottom loam to limestone with a thin covering of topsoil (or > sometimes none). While I don't know how this affects electrical ground > conditions, the difference must be fairly pronounced - and I am very > glad my shunt fed tower is based in the old riverbed. If you only use ground rods or depend on earth as a counterpoise, where you place the antenna locally can matter. With a reasonably good ground, most of the losses are in the Fresnel region outside the area you can control. The result is a mean value of all the variables combined, local soil under the antenna doesn't matter much. Since Rick's Beverages are long and likely cross a big sample area of soil, most likely they do a good job of averaging ground. Not that ground is all that important for a Beverage. Mostly what we find, when we cut through all the emotion, is we try to find a way to justify why our locations and antennas are somehow "special". In truth, the description of sorting multiple stations or having directivity in the BCB being somehow exceptional, like a "long Yagi", is just common performance. I lived in NW Ohio in an area with deep rich sandy black loam with water near the surface, and BC conductivity estimates from local AM station proof of performances placed that soil above 20 mS/ meter for that whole area, but nothing totally off the charts. The seriously flawed ground rod test using 60 Hz was off the charts for conductivity, because the top black soil layer was saturated with contaminated water. What we forget is skin depth can be many dozens of feet, and the wavelength is so long we get an averaged effect of all the stuff going on. We look at one tiny area near the surface, or look 1000 feet deep, and assume that defines something one way or another, usually to unintentionally make a system "special". My Beverages over that good very uniform soil worked exactly as described over rocky poor soil. As a matter of fact, they worked the same in Cleveland over clay, and in Rockdale County GA over rock. They work that way here, too. I could always go to the AM band with any properly installed Beverage of 400-500 feet or longer and change directions, and sort multiple AM stations on one frequency. It is common antenna behavior, because the "test" being used is so non-critical. It always fascinates people who listen, when several stations can be sorted on one AM BCB channel. That a normal reaction to a common non-special result where just 10 dB of response variation over nearly equal signal levels arriving from widely separated directions shows up as "changing audio like a switch". It's human nature, just like we commonly see when antenna systems are changed, and why we should make measurements. The best example of this common very human effect is to change the battery in your car, clean it , and wax it. It will run better, and get better fuel mileage. (A popular Ham author actually put that in an article on mobile installations!) I think this is what Rick was driving at. 73 Tom ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Radials over a stone wall
Be real careful when drilling at those seam points tho as the bit can get stuck when hitting the harder area around the joint and if your holding on with both hands it will twist your arms around real good. Sent from my iPad On Aug 10, 2012, at 16:20, "ZR" wrote: > Rent a hammer drill with a 1/2" or 3/4" bit and an extension. Takes about 15 > minutes a hole as long as you have AC out there. My 3/4" bit is 12" long and > Ive used it several times to bust up big boulders at or near the surface in > the yard. > > Start at a point where there is space between 2 rocks to minimize the > effort. This is a job where you sit on the ground to work and then lay down > when tired and keep drilling! > > Carl > KM1H > > > - Original Message - > From: "Herb Schoenbohm" > To: "N2TK, Tony" > Cc: "'topband'" > Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 3:32 PM > Subject: Re: Topband: Radials over a stone wall > > >> Tony, no need to fret about drilling. I would say than going under is >> better than going over. The crews who do direct burial for cable TV and >> fiber have special directional drill attachments that you should try to >> borrow. the will go straight down along the wall until they get to the >> dirt under the wall, find their way under the wall and come up on the >> other side. You just a need a few of these connector and for them it is >> something they do all the time under highways, concrete drainage and >> sidewalks, as a matter of their work. >> >> If you want to DIY you could also excavate as much as possible on both >> sides, take some 8 foot ground rods and drive them at an angle drive >> with a sledge on each side and see if you can "establish contact". Fill >> both sides of the pilot holes with rock salt, the water them for several >> days. Eventually you should have a fairly low resistance connection >> from one rod to the other, even if they do not touch. Connect you >> radials to both ground rods. Only problem with the rock salt is it will >> eventually each away at the copper covered steel rod. But you should be >> good for a year or two. >> >> Before I get royally flamed here and subjected to humiliation by not >> having this advice peer reviewed, let me suggest that this method has >> never been tested by me and probably not by anyone else. >> >> >> Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 8/10/2012 2:21 PM, N2TK, Tony wrote: >>> Thanks Bill and Herb about drilling a hole through the wall. That could >>> be >>> tough. It is a stone wall with no mortar. It is about 20-28" thick. It is >>> well constructed with large field stones. It would be rough to drill >>> through >>> all of that. I had thought about taking portion of the wall apart but >>> figured I would never get it back to looking as good as it does now. The >>> stones go fairly deep so not much chance of going under the wall. >>> >>> 73, >>> N2TK, Tony >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: Bill Wichers [mailto:bi...@waveform.net] >>> Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 12:26 PM >>> To: N2TK, Tony; topband >>> Subject: RE: Topband: Radials over a stone wall >>> >>> I would expect an "up and over" to clear the wall would result in a >>> choke-like effect on the radial and would, at best, reduce the radial's >>> effectiveness. >>> >>> It should be easy to just drill some small (maybe 1/4"?) holes through >>> the >>> wall in a few places to pass the radials through. With a decent hammer >>> drill >>> and a carbide bit a small hole like that is pretty quick and easy to >>> complete -- even in concrete or stone. Then just use a piece of >>> coathanger >>> wire as a wire fishing tool to run the radials through the hole. >>> >>> I use a wire pulling tool called a "creep-zit" to pull radials under >>> fallen >>> trees and logs in the woods. It works great. I basically just take one of >>> the 6 foot long fiberglass rods (each of which is a little over 1/8" >>> diameter), tape the radial to one end, and then I can push it under >>> fallen >>> debris easily. With a little practice you can even get around hidden >>> obstructions in the ground this way. >>> >>> -Bill >>> >>> I shunt feed my tower for topband. I use variable vacuum caps and a >>> vacuum relay at the base to switch between the low end and the high end of >>> the band. It seems to work okay. I have 100' buried radials spaced 10' at >>> the ends from o degrees going clockwise through about 220 degrees. I have >>> a 4' high stone wall that runs about 20/200 degrees that is about 35' at >>> its closest point to the tower. So the radials are progressively shorter >>> on the West side of the tower. I am making an assumption that going up over the wall will distort any benefits of extending the radials on the West side? Is that a true assumption. I can't really have the radials go from the tower base up at an angle >>> to clear the stone wall and con
Re: Topband: RX 4 SQ Phasing
>>>N4ZR wrote: >>>I'm not sure I'd go too far with the FCC map. You might look at your local soil surveys for better information, or contact your local NRCS office. I use the online Web Soil Survey. http://websoilsurvey.nrcs.usda.gov/app/HomePage.htm Once you select your area of interest and your soil type(s), you can navigate to 'Soil Properties and Qualities' and then to 'Soil Chemical Properties" and find Electrical Conductivity 'EC'. It is listed as millimhos per centimeter (same as millisiemens per centimeter if you prefer). You can look around at EC for your near and far fields and hopefully have something of greater confidence than the FCC map. Steve KK7UV ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: RX 4 SQ Phasing
I'm not sure I'd go too far with the FCC map. At my QTH, which is shown as average, actual ground/earth varies within a hundred feet from deep old riverbottom loam to limestone with a thin covering of topsoil (or sometimes none). While I don't know how this affects electrical ground conditions, the difference must be fairly pronounced - and I am very glad my shunt fed tower is based in the old riverbed. 73, Pete N4ZR The World Contest Station Database, at www.conteststations.com The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com, spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 On 8/10/2012 8:14 PM, Rick Karlquist wrote: > ZR wrote: >> Sometimes I wonder if its my very poor RF ground conditions that tilt the >> wave more and result in the performance of a much longer antenna. >> >> Carl >> KM1H > My ground is high conductivity according to the FCC map, so > maybe that doesn't explain the performance. > > Rick > N6RK > > ___ > UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK > ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
