Re: Topband: Need help to improve DX on 1/2 acre lot from CA
I live in the central valley of California which is only about 300 feet ASL. I do not live near the coast nor live in the high desert . Height above sea level doesn't matter. Height compared to immediately surrounding terrain is what matters. Some facts regarding this station: 4. I don't have the capacity to erect a full size radiator on this band although I am curious about the Titanix 160 vertical, what it is and is it worth looking into ? There is little to be gained going from 60-70 feet to full height, but you probably could gain some with a change from what you have now to something a bit higher since you are ground system limited. The major problem you have, unless you have other things around the antenna soaking up RF, is lack of a reasonable ground system. 5. I have read a lot about the K9AY RX loop. I have room for is antenna but before I construct one, what are your opinions ? All antennas like that, including Flag's and so on, function as short two-element phased verticals. Any of them will work almost as well as any other for the same effective size. You would get the most effective size from something with the widest spaced and most vertical sides, since the vertical slope of side lenegth is what actually forms the business part of the element. 6. I also read about a 225 foot beverage run close to the ground as a RX ant. How does this compare to the K9AY loop ? It could work better. It might not. Try one. The key in limited real estate receiving is to experiment, and especially to not do something wrong when experimenting. 7. What is the best short 160 vertical configuration that has the best performance for working DX ? An inverted L is fine, but you really need to fill that area with ground system. 8. You will notice I mentioned that I only run a single ground radial on each band. Would adding lets say 3 more Make the difference between night and day for TX or RX ? Anything will help, but that is still a poor ground system. Since you have a multiple-band vertical antenna that requires a single common ground point, you are probably going to have to buckle up and do a little extraordinary work. There isn't any good choice in a multiband situation, other than using as many wires in or on the ground as straight and long as possible in all directions possible. The wires do not need to be over 1/4 wave long on the lowest band. An alternative would be a large conductive screen, but that is usually even more problematic if it is to last a long time and be reliable. If I were in your shoes, I'd install some short phased verticals of some type and fill my back yard with buried radials. No matter what you read or hear, the notion or sales pitch that one or two radials per band is enough. is wrong. You probably have a terrible ground on all or most bands. Fix them all. Fill the yard with as many of the longest, straightest, radials you can in as many directions as you can, and tie in any large metal fences, posts, plumbing, and other potential grounds as you can. That's the only proper way to do multiple bands. 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Help with RFI
I would seriously consider going wireless. A few years ago I had a direct strike on the top of my tower. Fortunately, everything was disconnected, so I sustained no damage in the shack. In fact, the only significant damage was to two computers on a cabled Ethernet network, both of which showed physical signs of damage at and near the Ethernet port. It was clear to me that induced current from the strike, picked up by the Ethernet cable, was responsible. I switched our house over to wireless networking and have been completely satisfied. It doesn't hurt that it all operates at UHF. 73, Pete N4ZR Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com. For spots, please go to your favorite ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node. On 1/12/2013 10:38 PM, Mike Waters wrote: I wrap a few turns of the CAT 5 Ethernet cable coming into the back of my shack PC around a few stacked 2.4 diameter #31 ferrite cores. Works for me. 73, Mike www.w0btu.com On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 4:48 PM, W7KW w7kw.te...@gmail.com wrote: I am having a problem with RF getting into my Ethernet cables. Anyone have any recommendations for a clamp-on filter that would help remove 1.8 MHz RF? _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Help with RFI
Wrapping everything in ferrite did not solve my 160m RFI problems. OZ7C provided a filter circuit that I use successfully: http://www.ddxg.dk/oz7c/adsl/adsl_160m_filter.pdf G3VMW has done additional work: http://www.rsars.org.uk/ELIBRARY/BBCONNECT.pdf 73 -- Brian K1LI On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 10:38 PM, Mike Waters mikew...@gmail.com wrote: I wrap a few turns of the CAT 5 Ethernet cable coming into the back of my shack PC around a few stacked 2.4 diameter #31 ferrite cores. Works for me. 73, Mike www.w0btu.com On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 4:48 PM, W7KW w7kw.te...@gmail.com wrote: I am having a problem with RF getting into my Ethernet cables. Anyone have any recommendations for a clamp-on filter that would help remove 1.8 MHz RF? _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Help with RFI
I would also try shielded CAT-6 cable. It has more turns/foot than CAT-5 and is more immune to EMI, and supports faster speeds. -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mike Waters Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:39 PM To: topband Subject: Re: Topband: Help with RFI I wrap a few turns of the CAT 5 Ethernet cable coming into the back of my shack PC around a few stacked 2.4 diameter #31 ferrite cores. Works for me. 73, Mike www.w0btu.com On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 4:48 PM, W7KW w7kw.te...@gmail.com wrote: I am having a problem with RF getting into my Ethernet cables. Anyone have any recommendations for a clamp-on filter that would help remove 1.8 MHz RF? _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Need help to improve DX on 1/2 acre lot from CA
Jeff, Adding 30 or more on-ground or slightly buried radials for your inv. L will make a big improvement in your tx signal. Also search the reflector archives for previous discussion on all these topics. 73 Jon AA1K Sent via the HTC Vivid™, an ATT 4G LTE smartphone - Reply message - From: k...@elite.net To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Need help to improve DX on 1/2 acre lot from CA Date: Sat, Jan 12, 2013 3:49 pm Hello All, I just assigned myself onto this forum, its been a long time and needs some help and would appreciate some questions answered on this huge experienced based forum. First, I want to describe my problem. I have a 1/2 acre lot in the back property where I install my antennas. The largest HF antenna is a HyGain Hy Tower which works great on 40 and 80. On 160, I run a separate radiator that runs up the side of the hytower separated by 6 inch insulators up to the top and then runs horizontal sloped from the top of the hygain hytower downward to a fence support that results in a full sized 1/4 WL inverted L on 160. The 160 meter feedpoint is common to the hytower feedpoint. I live in the central valley of California which is only about 300 feet ASL. I do not live near the coast nor live in the high desert . Some facts regarding this station: 1. I still have not copied or worked into Europe. I have been on this band somewhat seriously for at least 5 years 2. I hear a few Russians but they don't hear me. 3. I heard a FM5 last few nights peaking 559, called him countleesly with no QSO. My power is about 800 W on this band ( single 3-500 ). I am looking into finding a single GS35 amp for all bands on HFlove that tube. 4. I don't have the capacity to erect a full size radiator on this band although I am curious about the Titanix 160 vertical, what it is and is it worth looking into ? 5. I have read a lot about the K9AY RX loop. I have room for is antenna but before I construct one, what are your opinions ? 6. I also read about a 225 foot beverage run close to the ground as a RX ant. How does this compare to the K9AY loop ? 7. What is the best short 160 vertical configuration that has the best performance for working DX ? 8. You will notice I mentioned that I only run a single ground radial on each band. Would adding lets say 3 more Make the difference between night and day for TX or RX ? I think that's about it for now...73. Jeff K7XQ Atwater, CA. K7XQ website: http://users.elite.net/k7xq/k7xq.html _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Help with RFI
On 1/12/2013 7:38 PM, Mike Waters wrote: I wrap a few turns of the CAT 5 Ethernet cable coming into the back of my shack PC around a few stacked 2.4 diameter #31 ferrite cores. For 160M, 14 turns on a single #31 core is a pretty good choke. Don't overlook power supply cables as a possible receiving or radiating antenna for RF. A #43 core works at these frequencies, but not nearly as well. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Need help to improve DX on 1/2 acre lot from CA
On 1/12/2013 12:49 PM, k...@elite.net wrote: 1. I still have not copied or worked into Europe. I have been on this band somewhat seriously for at least 5 years EU is VERY tough from California, especially northern California. We have to go over the pole. My neighbor, K6XX has more than 60 acres on top of a 2,700 ft ridge up the road from me, and when I moved here he told me he can count the nights he can hear EU on the fingers of one hand. Six seasons have convinced me he's right. We're in the Santa Cruz Mountains. All the stars must be aligned -- propagation that gives us a path but not the east coast, a very good RX antenna, minimal local noise, high power, and a very good antenna system. That includes a serious radial system or other very effective counterpoise. 2. I hear a few Russians but they don't hear me. We have a fairly good shot at Asiatic Russia, and I work some in most contests. There was a UA0 working us a few nights ago an hour or so before midnight, which is unusually early for that path. 3. I heard a FM5 last few nights peaking 559, called him countleesly with no QSO. Stations in that latitude can have a lot of RX noise, and can be difficult to work. My power is about 800 W on this band ( single 3-500 ). I am looking into finding a single GS35 amp for all bands on HFlove that tube. Power is a good thing, but you need antenna help. Others have told you that you need to work on your radial system, and I strongly agree. Also, antenna efficiency increases with increasing vertical height. I did a tutorial on 160M antennas for limited space at Pacificon, and recently repeated it for a local ham club. You may find it useful It's on my webpage as a pdf. http://audiosystemsgroup.com/publish.htm 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Help with RFI
Im running shielded CAT 5e from the router up in the office to the basement and none of the rigs bothered it but I did have to use a single 31 core at the router outputs to eliminate its noise; the 6 CAT5e cables are grouped together thru the toroid, and another at the DC input. The cable modem that feeds it was also very noisy and even outputting on the RG6. Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Mike Waters mikew...@gmail.com To: topband topband@contesting.com Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:38 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Help with RFI I wrap a few turns of the CAT 5 Ethernet cable coming into the back of my shack PC around a few stacked 2.4 diameter #31 ferrite cores. Works for me. 73, Mike www.w0btu.com On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 4:48 PM, W7KW w7kw.te...@gmail.com wrote: I am having a problem with RF getting into my Ethernet cables. Anyone have any recommendations for a clamp-on filter that would help remove 1.8 MHz RF? _ Topband Reflector - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1430 / Virus Database: 2638/5530 - Release Date: 01/13/13 _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Help with RFI
On 1/13/2013 5:08 AM, Brian Machesney wrote: Wrapping everything in ferrite did not solve my 160m RFI problems. OZ7C provided a filter circuit that I use successfully: Let's define the problem. Interference to DSL is VERY different from interference to Ethernet. I agree with Pete that using wireless Ethernet for as much as practical of a system is a good thing, and I've been doing that since moving to CA seven years ago. My internet is CATV, so I've not had to tackle DSL myself. The problem with interference to DSL is that 160M is within the heart of the range of DSL signals, and both the equipment and the wiring are poorly designed to reject them. In the old days, all telco wiring was twisted pair, but in the last few decades it has been mostly downgraded to parallel conductors, and this has had a huge impact on RFI, noise, and crosstalk in difficult situations. There is also the issue of equipment poorly designed to reject the interference, or to switch to a lower bandwidth mode when interference is present. The issue of RFI to DSL has been worked through in considerable detail on the RFI email reflector, and the consensus is to first challenge the DSL vendor to fix it. A low pass filter for the telco line is also a good move, and so are replacing as much as practical of telco wiring with good twisted pair, like CAT5/6/7, and adding a serious common mode choke to the cables going to the modem. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector
Topband: Fw: Re: Need help to improve DX on 1/2 acre lot from CA
My dos centavos...sent direct to K7XQ yesterday evening. Sounds like the other responses, but I think more radials should do the trick even if they are not straight or uniformly spaced, although elevated ones should be as straight as possible. 73, JH W6UQZ --- On Sat, 1/12/13, jh-...@sbcglobal.net jh-...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: jh-...@sbcglobal.net jh-...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: Topband: Need help to improve DX on 1/2 acre lot from CA To: k...@elite.net Date: Saturday, January 12, 2013, 7:14 PM Some advice, from a ham who worked 93 countries on top band from an apartment in Monterey, including 9 EUs in one nite, several African countries, and deep into Central Asia, using a full-sized zig-zagged and bent inverted L. YOU NEED MORE RADIALS7-9 minimum if your feedpoint is on the ground, only 4 if it is raised 10' off the ground. Do you have a metal fence around your property? If so, connect that up to add to your radial system. You can also use a Folded Counterpoise system (look up W0UCE and K2AV). A listening loop (made of hardline) or rotatable Waller flag RX antenna would also help immensely. I used my TX ant as the RX ant. Soadding radials (up to 60 if you can manage it) and an RX ant is what you need. 73, JH W6UQZ --- On Sat, 1/12/13, k...@elite.net k...@elite.net wrote: From: k...@elite.net k...@elite.net Subject: Topband: Need help to improve DX on 1/2 acre lot from CA To: topband@contesting.com Date: Saturday, January 12, 2013, 12:49 PM Hello All, I just assigned myself onto this forum, its been a long time and needs some help and would appreciate some questions answered on this huge experienced based forum. First, I want to describe my problem. I have a 1/2 acre lot in the back property where I install my antennas. The largest HF antenna is a HyGain Hy Tower which works great on 40 and 80. On 160, I run a separate radiator that runs up the side of the hytower separated by 6 inch insulators up to the top and then runs horizontal sloped from the top of the hygain hytower downward to a fence support that results in a full sized 1/4 WL inverted L on 160. The 160 meter feedpoint is common to the hytower feedpoint. I live in the central valley of California which is only about 300 feet ASL. I do not live near the coast nor live in the high desert . Some facts regarding this station: 1. I still have not copied or worked into Europe. I have been on this band somewhat seriously for at least 5 years 2. I hear a few Russians but they don't hear me. 3. I heard a FM5 last few nights peaking 559, called him countleesly with no QSO. My power is about 800 W on this band ( single 3-500 ). I am looking into finding a single GS35 amp for all bands on HFlove that tube. 4. I don't have the capacity to erect a full size radiator on this band although I am curious about the Titanix 160 vertical, what it is and is it worth looking into ? 5. I have read a lot about the K9AY RX loop. I have room for is antenna but before I construct one, what are your opinions ? 6. I also read about a 225 foot beverage run close to the ground as a RX ant. How does this compare to the K9AY loop ? 7. What is the best short 160 vertical configuration that has the best performance for working DX ? 8. You will notice I mentioned that I only run a single ground radial on each band. Would adding lets say 3 more Make the difference between night and day for TX or RX ? I think that's about it for now...73. Jeff K7XQ Atwater, CA. K7XQ website: http://users.elite.net/k7xq/k7xq.html _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Topband: Being there; was Re: Need help to improve DX on 1/2 acre lot from CA
On 1/13/2013 8:52 AM, Jim Brown wrote: On 1/12/2013 12:49 PM, k...@elite.net wrote: 1. I still have not copied or worked into Europe. I have been on this band somewhat seriously for at least 5 years EU is VERY tough from California, especially northern California. We have to go over the pole. My neighbor, K6XX has more than 60 acres on top of a 2,700 ft ridge up the road from me, and when I moved here he told me he can count the nights he can hear EU on the fingers of one hand. Six seasons have convinced me he's right. We're in the Santa Cruz Mountains. All the stars must be aligned -- propagation that gives us a Europe on 160 meters from W6 is about being there the few nights it happens. In the recent SP contest, I easily worked VK6, CE1, JA, etc running 100W to a 60 foot vertical and using a loop receiving antenna. I never heard or planned to hear EU. I also recently worked the PT0S dxpedition on 160 meters. So I know there is nothing wrong with my station. It is entirely possible to have fun working DX from the central valley. Just not Europe. For WAC, try working the Azores, which technically count as EU. That's probably realistic. On the few nights when EU is in here, everyone works them, not just the big guns. There were a few crazy nights during the recent sunspot minimum when some Russians were working W6's on 160m phone. Unbelievable, you had to be there. It sounded like 20 meters. My favorite being there story is calling CQ all night in a 160 meter contest on the longest night of the year at the bottom of the sunspot cycle that was the lowest in a lifetime and, barely aware, just before sunrise, getting a called by a UA3. You just can't plan these things. Did I mention I was only running 100 watts? Rick N6RK _ Topband Reflector
