Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
It peaks at 172 degrees from Raleigh, NC on a Hi-Z 3-element array (6 directions). We need some directions from Florida stations. 73, Paul K5ESW _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Paul and Gang, Based on Pauls heading and a few other headings that intersect Pauls heading, it looks like the signal is originating from the lower half of NC, or the NE part of SC that touches NC. Hard to describe, but an area like Fayetteville NC to the North, Wilmington NC to the South East, and Myrtle Beach SC to the South (maybe as far South as Georgetown or Charleston SC if I stretch things a bit). Still need a few more data points, but the above describes the general area unless it is out in the ocean. Lots of headings that don't intersect Pauls heading which I had to ignore. Don On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 7:05 AM, Paul Ferguson p...@paulferguson.us wrote: It peaks at 172 degrees from Raleigh, NC on a Hi-Z 3-element array (6 directions). We need some directions from Florida stations. 73, Paul K5ESW _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Well, most all the guys in New England see it peaking pretty much due south - which suggests that the origin is off-shore in the Atlantic, rather than on shore in the Carolinas. (Maybe from the Bermuda Triangle? :-)) How long have you had that Hi-Z 3-element receive array, Paul? Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Don Kirk Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 7:40 AM To: p...@paulferguson.us Cc: topband Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW Paul and Gang, Based on Pauls heading and a few other headings that intersect Pauls heading, it looks like the signal is originating from the lower half of NC, or the NE part of SC that touches NC. Hard to describe, but an area like Fayetteville NC to the North, Wilmington NC to the South East, and Myrtle Beach SC to the South (maybe as far South as Georgetown or Charleston SC if I stretch things a bit). Still need a few more data points, but the above describes the general area unless it is out in the ocean. Lots of headings that don't intersect Pauls heading which I had to ignore. Don On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 7:05 AM, Paul Ferguson p...@paulferguson.us wrote: It peaks at 172 degrees from Raleigh, NC on a Hi-Z 3-element array (6 directions). We need some directions from Florida stations. 73, Paul K5ESW _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
A rough azimuth from W4ZV in NC would be helpful , and from Florida - Original Message - From: Don Kirk wd8...@gmail.com To: p...@paulferguson.us Cc: topband topband@contesting.com Sent: Saturday, November 2, 2013 11:39:56 AM Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW Paul and Gang, Based on Pauls heading and a few other headings that intersect Pauls heading, it looks like the signal is originating from the lower half of NC, or the NE part of SC that touches NC. Hard to describe, but an area like Fayetteville NC to the North, Wilmington NC to the South East, and Myrtle Beach SC to the South (maybe as far South as Georgetown or Charleston SC if I stretch things a bit). Still need a few more data points, but the above describes the general area unless it is out in the ocean. Lots of headings that don't intersect Pauls heading which I had to ignore. Don On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 7:05 AM, Paul Ferguson p...@paulferguson.us wrote: It peaks at 172 degrees from Raleigh, NC on a Hi-Z 3-element array (6 directions). We need some directions from Florida stations. 73, Paul K5ESW _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
I think I can do a little better on estimating the direction (better than SE which I gave earlier). I can get two 30 dB nulls out of my receiving antenna by switching directions. Those nulls appear at 145 and 133 degrees. Pointed SW the signal is S9 this morning. In the null at 133 degrees the signal is S0 and not audiable. The signal is considerably stronger at the 145 degree null. So my best guess is 133 degrees from Decatur, Alabama (north central Alabama). Oh! As I was typing this, at 1353 UTC the signal on 3501.6 abruptly stopped. It was still at S9 just before it stopped. Then at 1355 UTC it came back but with RTTY for about 15 or 20 seconds, and then back into its continuous unmodulated carrier mode at S9. The RTTY burst was too fast for me to boot an RTTY decoder to see if I could copy anything. I suspect this is not an unintentional radiator. There is very little QSB on this signal. I was waiting to see if the signal amplitude was going to go down after sunrise. At 2 hours after sunrise it's starting to show signs of QSB. It went down to S4 but now its back up to S8. Now at 3 hours after sunrise it's S7 with QSB on my vertical, but only about S1 on my low dipole. A line of 133 degrees from my location goes thru Jacksonville, Fl and also thru that long chain of islands, Nassau Bahamas, Turks and Caicos, and Haiti and Dominican Republic. Most of Cuba would hit my 145 degree null, but Guantanamo is close enough to be a candidate (with a little measurement error). A measurement from Florida would be interesting. Jerry, K4SAV _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
I'm mapping the data, but nothing to hang my hat on at this time. The data from Steve (KK7UV) does not intersect any of the other reports (odd). A heading from W8JI or AA1K would be very helpful. Don (wd8dsb) If you guys will remember from a year ago, Don is the man who pinpoints these sources, if given a few more, reliable, data points. What is needed are reports from directional loops. 2-3 feet in diameter are fine for getting a sharp null, of a few degrees. This is much, much better data than from Beverages, etc. I built a loop with $5 worth of pvc pipe, and a bcb variable capacitor, and it took about an hour to glue together. I'm only hearing it S3 here in NJ at 10 am with a dipole, so doubt that my loop is going to hear it in daytime. Don - if it's in the direction you indicated (128 degrees) that puts in at the southern tip of WV or center of NC. Doubtful that any weak source is going to be audible to me this time of day from there. I'll do my best to get a bearing on it tonight if it gets louder. Rick K2xt _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
That's good information, Jerry! What we need, rather than relying on antenna patterns for direction, is direct phase measurement between a pair of vertical elements - with a third element (or a pair) to resolve F/B ambiguity) if well calibrated , such an array can be quite good for direction-finding measurements -but a good bit of engineering is required to do the phase measurement. I worked on an array like that for VHF marine radio years ago - worked quite well -mounted on boats and Coast Guard cutters. Then what we would need to pin down the origin would be at least 2-3 of such arrays at more or less right angles to the source for good triangulation. When I'm not so busy, perhaps I can do some design work on the phase measurement. Best approach is a system that commutates digitally between the antennas to compare phase. 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of K4SAV Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 10:53 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW I think I can do a little better on estimating the direction (better than SE which I gave earlier). I can get two 30 dB nulls out of my receiving antenna by switching directions. Those nulls appear at 145 and 133 degrees. Pointed SW the signal is S9 this morning. In the null at 133 degrees the signal is S0 and not audiable. The signal is considerably stronger at the 145 degree null. So my best guess is 133 degrees from Decatur, Alabama (north central Alabama). Oh! As I was typing this, at 1353 UTC the signal on 3501.6 abruptly stopped. It was still at S9 just before it stopped. Then at 1355 UTC it came back but with RTTY for about 15 or 20 seconds, and then back into its continuous unmodulated carrier mode at S9. The RTTY burst was too fast for me to boot an RTTY decoder to see if I could copy anything. I suspect this is not an unintentional radiator. There is very little QSB on this signal. I was waiting to see if the signal amplitude was going to go down after sunrise. At 2 hours after sunrise it's starting to show signs of QSB. It went down to S4 but now its back up to S8. Now at 3 hours after sunrise it's S7 with QSB on my vertical, but only about S1 on my low dipole. A line of 133 degrees from my location goes thru Jacksonville, Fl and also thru that long chain of islands, Nassau Bahamas, Turks and Caicos, and Haiti and Dominican Republic. Most of Cuba would hit my 145 degree null, but Guantanamo is close enough to be a candidate (with a little measurement error). A measurement from Florida would be interesting. Jerry, K4SAV _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Wondering if it might be a commerical station on the 2 - 3 MHz area and with a spur? Sent from my iPhone On Nov 2, 2013, at 10:53 AM, Rick Stealey rstea...@hotmail.com wrote: I'm mapping the data, but nothing to hang my hat on at this time. The data from Steve (KK7UV) does not intersect any of the other reports (odd). A heading from W8JI or AA1K would be very helpful. Don (wd8dsb) If you guys will remember from a year ago, Don is the man who pinpoints these sources, if given a few more, reliable, data points. What is needed are reports from directional loops. 2-3 feet in diameter are fine for getting a sharp null, of a few degrees. This is much, much better data than from Beverages, etc. I built a loop with $5 worth of pvc pipe, and a bcb variable capacitor, and it took about an hour to glue together. I'm only hearing it S3 here in NJ at 10 am with a dipole, so doubt that my loop is going to hear it in daytime. Don - if it's in the direction you indicated (128 degrees) that puts in at the southern tip of WV or center of NC. Doubtful that any weak source is going to be audible to me this time of day from there. I'll do my best to get a bearing on it tonight if it gets louder. Rick K2xt _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
The signal on 3501.6 seems to have some significant power behind it. At noon (1700 UTC) it is running S7 to S1 (QSB) on my vertical. There is also an unmodulated carrier on 10.5048 MHz, but not very strong (at noon). 3501.6 x 3 = 10.5048 Jerry, K4SAV On 11/2/2013 9:52 AM, K4SAV wrote: I think I can do a little better on estimating the direction (better than SE which I gave earlier). I can get two 30 dB nulls out of my receiving antenna by switching directions. Those nulls appear at 145 and 133 degrees. Pointed SW the signal is S9 this morning. In the null at 133 degrees the signal is S0 and not audiable. The signal is considerably stronger at the 145 degree null. So my best guess is 133 degrees from Decatur, Alabama (north central Alabama). Oh! As I was typing this, at 1353 UTC the signal on 3501.6 abruptly stopped. It was still at S9 just before it stopped. Then at 1355 UTC it came back but with RTTY for about 15 or 20 seconds, and then back into its continuous unmodulated carrier mode at S9. The RTTY burst was too fast for me to boot an RTTY decoder to see if I could copy anything. I suspect this is not an unintentional radiator. There is very little QSB on this signal. I was waiting to see if the signal amplitude was going to go down after sunrise. At 2 hours after sunrise it's starting to show signs of QSB. It went down to S4 but now its back up to S8. Now at 3 hours after sunrise it's S7 with QSB on my vertical, but only about S1 on my low dipole. A line of 133 degrees from my location goes thru Jacksonville, Fl and also thru that long chain of islands, Nassau Bahamas, Turks and Caicos, and Haiti and Dominican Republic. Most of Cuba would hit my 145 degree null, but Guantanamo is close enough to be a candidate (with a little measurement error). A measurement from Florida would be interesting. Jerry, K4SAV _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
I can only give a rough direction from here, because right now the multipath is terrible. I'm at 33-04-38N and 84-03-28W That's EM73XB or EM73XC It appears to center on 130 degrees true from me. Because of multipath it could be off +-5 degrees. The direction keeps shifting. That's a line from my house (midway between Forsyth and Barnesville GA) down past Brunswick GA, down the islands, eventually crossing the area of Puerto Rico and J3. I just went out to check it again, and it appears to be gone. 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Well darn. The signal on 3501.6 stopped at 2301 UTC. I thought maybe it would have some RTTY when it came back on like it did last time (maybe with a station ID), so I recorded it. It didn't. It just started up with a constant carrier. It came back at 0011 UTC. It's at S9+10 on my vertical. Tom thanks for the measurement. Makes me feel better about my 133 degree estimate. Jerry On 11/2/2013 7:08 PM, Tom W8JI wrote: I can only give a rough direction from here, because right now the multipath is terrible. I'm at 33-04-38N and 84-03-28W That's EM73XB or EM73XC It appears to center on 130 degrees true from me. Because of multipath it could be off +-5 degrees. The direction keeps shifting. That's a line from my house (midway between Forsyth and Barnesville GA) down past Brunswick GA, down the islands, eventually crossing the area of Puerto Rico and J3. I just went out to check it again, and it appears to be gone. 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Based on Tom's bearing, the source is clearly not in the Carolinas as a few have specuilated. Charlie, K4OTV You can be absolutely sure it is not in or anywhere near NC. My heading can't be more than a few degrees off. This closely matches Jerry's line, his line is just west of mine and almost parallel. The only issue is the multipath the signal had near sunset, but I think I got a pretty good average at 130 degrees true from me. (EM73XB or EM73XC). A second reading later in time is always best to double check, but the signal went away. 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Hi Guys, K5ESW reported the following : The 3501.5 carrier is audible in daylight in Raleigh, NC. It is running S3-S4 now at 3 pm local. It was about S6-S7 or better at night. What would be interesting to know is if anyone can hear this signal 24 hours a day, and then DF activity should be done from that area during the middle of the day. I will ask K5ESW if he can still hear this signal between noon and 3pm. In the Indianapolis area the signal runs S7 to S9 on my TX antenna during hours of darkness, but lots of fade/multipath. I noticed the signal was much more stable in the late afternoon (still light outside and running S) when I first heard it today (probably less multipath), and therefore tomorrow afternoon when it first appears I will attempt to update my headings. Don On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 9:10 PM, Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com wrote: Based on Tom's bearing, the source is clearly not in the Carolinas as a few have specuilated. Charlie, K4OTV You can be absolutely sure it is not in or anywhere near NC. My heading can't be more than a few degrees off. This closely matches Jerry's line, his line is just west of mine and almost parallel. The only issue is the multipath the signal had near sunset, but I think I got a pretty good average at 130 degrees true from me. (EM73XB or EM73XC). A second reading later in time is always best to double check, but the signal went away. 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
Everyone is measuring the 3501.6 signal only, right? The other ones, if they exist are in the noise for me, central NJ. I heard the 3501.6 from 10 am till I had to QRT at 3 pm, S3 on a dipole. It is S8 now, So maybe I have it 24 hrs a day. I took my loop outside to my porch and got a bearing on it but not a sharp one (multipath?). And damnit, I can't find my compass right now to give you the number, although it probably doesn't help anyway, me being in NJ. I probably don't have enough signal for the loop to hear it during the day. Rick K2XT _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
S9 in KS @ 2:20 UTC S/SE on HiZ pro 4-8 73/jeff/ac0c www.ac0c.com alpha-charlie-zero-charlie -Original Message- From: Rick Stealey Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 9:12 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW Everyone is measuring the 3501.6 signal only, right? The other ones, if they exist are in the noise for me, central NJ. I heard the 3501.6 from 10 am till I had to QRT at 3 pm, S3 on a dipole. It is S8 now, So maybe I have it 24 hrs a day. I took my loop outside to my porch and got a bearing on it but not a sharp one (multipath?). And damnit, I can't find my compass right now to give you the number, although it probably doesn't help anyway, me being in NJ. I probably don't have enough signal for the loop to hear it during the day. Rick K2XT _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
It's very strong here. On a vertical it is running S9+10 to S9+15 on peaks with QSB taking it down to S9. As I posted earlier it was running S1 to S7 at noon. That was due to QSB. I can hear it all day long. I can tell it has a lot of multipath right now. In the null of my antenna it flutters around, up and down, and then completely disappears for a little while. Earlier when it was more stable it just flat disappeared in my antenna null at 133 degrees. My largest measurement error is probably in accurately measuring my antenna position with a not too accurate compass. I also measured the offset between true north and compass direction. (I had it staked) After checking that at a website just now, I see that I missed it by one degree. That would make my estimate of 133 degrees be 132 degrees. Finally we have a measurement from Florida, and it is an interesting one. I don't know haw accurate the direction is, but it doesn't have to be very accurate to conclude that the source in in the USA, not out on one of the islands. Is someone plotting this? Jerry On 11/2/2013 9:01 PM, JC N4IS wrote: Hi guys I'm in Ft Lauderdale EL96ub and the carrier on 3501.6 is s9+10 coming around 350 degree with some QSB. Regards JC N4IS -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Don Kirk Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 9:29 PM To: Tom W8JI Cc: Charlie Cunningham; topband Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW Hi Guys, K5ESW reported the following : The 3501.5 carrier is audible in daylight in Raleigh, NC. It is running S3-S4 now at 3 pm local. It was about S6-S7 or better at night. What would be interesting to know is if anyone can hear this signal 24 hours a day, and then DF activity should be done from that area during the middle of the day. I will ask K5ESW if he can still hear this signal between noon and 3pm. In the Indianapolis area the signal runs S7 to S9 on my TX antenna during hours of darkness, but lots of fade/multipath. I noticed the signal was much more stable in the late afternoon (still light outside and running S) when I first heard it today (probably less multipath), and therefore tomorrow afternoon when it first appears I will attempt to update my headings. Don On Sat, Nov 2, 2013 at 9:10 PM, Tom W8JIw...@w8ji.com wrote: Based on Tom's bearing, the source is clearly not in the Carolinas as a few have specuilated. Charlie, K4OTV You can be absolutely sure it is not in or anywhere near NC. My heading can't be more than a few degrees off. This closely matches Jerry's line, his line is just west of mine and almost parallel. The only issue is the multipath the signal had near sunset, but I think I got a pretty good average at 130 degrees true from me. (EM73XB or EM73XC). A second reading later in time is always best to double check, but the signal went away. 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
The 3501.5 carrier very solid in Western Canada- s-7 or so at VE6WZit must be **real** loud out east!! My bearing will not likely be much help, but rotating the Yagi it clearly peaks between 90 -120 deg from Calgary. Zero copy off the back of the beam with the same reciprocal bearing. de steve ve6wz _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
This is looking like somewhere near the Florida/Georgia border, Jacksonville, Fl to Brunswick, Ga area. _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
This is looking like somewhere near the Florida/Georgia border, Jacksonville, Fl to Brunswick, Ga area. Any mobile station traveling the I-95 corridor could provide some very interesting data, very easily. What mile marker does the signal peak at? Then we take a loop and start driving around the swamps. Rick K2XT _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
05:00 UTC The 3501.5 carrier is s5/s6, some qsb comming from north west, so not from the carribian Kees, PE5T -- From: VE6WZ_Steve ve...@shaw.ca Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2013 3:52 AM To: K4SAV radi...@charter.net; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW The 3501.5 carrier very solid in Western Canada- s-7 or so at VE6WZit must be **real** loud out east!! My bearing will not likely be much help, but rotating the Yagi it clearly peaks between 90 -120 deg from Calgary. Zero copy off the back of the beam with the same reciprocal bearing. de steve ve6wz _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
