Re: Topband: TO7CC
I haven't heard them or seen spots on 160 or 80 for the west coast around 1400 UTC give or take. Doug -Original Message- Try to focuse our work on top band each time as possible. Every nights ops are there. At the end of FT5ZM QRG back quiet but dont Forget that another guys still on fréquences for you. Finaly team stay on the Island untill sunday morning. Dépending cndx Est coast stations Can be ear half and more after SR. In FR time around 2H30 AM. Last night have strong noise even on 80 didn't log much qso in lows bands. TO7CC team _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: Power stayed on!
Well, we didn't get as much ice as had been initially forecast last night, and my power stayed on! Thank the Lord for that! So, I stayed warm and comfortable and had a good night's sleep! Just stayin' inside at present. Real mess out there, and these days, I'm too crippled up to get out in it! Thank the Lord for special favors! Have a good day all! 73, Charlie, K4OTV _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Power stayed on!
Thats good news Charlie. After about 4 hrs of fluff it started coming down pretty heavy maybe 20 minutes ago, no winds yet. This photo could be my road about half way down the hill, houses on the low side and little on the high and lots of turns and trees. Only difference is we have no street lights. http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/deep-freeze/ice-storm-leaves-500k-shivering-without-power-across-southeast-n29171 Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 9:40 AM Subject: Topband: Power stayed on! Well, we didn't get as much ice as had been initially forecast last night, and my power stayed on! Thank the Lord for that! So, I stayed warm and comfortable and had a good night's sleep! Just stayin' inside at present. Real mess out there, and these days, I'm too crippled up to get out in it! Thank the Lord for special favors! Have a good day all! 73, Charlie, K4OTV _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Power stayed on!
Thanks, Carl! Guess it's your turn, now! Guess I'm not the only hillbilly on here! Tom said his yagis look like noodles and most all the support ropes for his wire antennas had broken under the ice load, and he said he had lots of radial icing. So I guess I can't complain too much! Take care and stay warm! 73, Charlie, K4OTV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 10:27 AM To: Charlie Cunningham; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Power stayed on! Thats good news Charlie. After about 4 hrs of fluff it started coming down pretty heavy maybe 20 minutes ago, no winds yet. This photo could be my road about half way down the hill, houses on the low side and little on the high and lots of turns and trees. Only difference is we have no street lights. http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/deep-freeze/ice-storm-leaves-500k-shivering -without-power-across-southeast-n29171 Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Charlie Cunningham charlie-cunning...@nc.rr.com To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 9:40 AM Subject: Topband: Power stayed on! Well, we didn't get as much ice as had been initially forecast last night, and my power stayed on! Thank the Lord for that! So, I stayed warm and comfortable and had a good night's sleep! Just stayin' inside at present. Real mess out there, and these days, I'm too crippled up to get out in it! Thank the Lord for special favors! Have a good day all! 73, Charlie, K4OTV _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Low band noise
I just sent this to the fellow in Waco. I'd recommend getting the PC ap called Zelscope which is a software based scope. It was ten bucks a few year ago. (there are also several free iphone aps which do this too - audio spectrum analyzers) Hook receiver to sound Card and you can see the waveform, determine base frequency. You can then snapshot the screen and show the waveform which will have certain group of peaks. Arrl would characterize as 3 peak, 4 peak, 5 peak but you would also see if there are multiple sources of the noise or a single one. If this is a single source a MFJ1025 nuller will work nicely to eliminate it with the proper sense antenna and some twidling of the controls to null out the crud. After years of working with ARRL and the power co here we identified 4 sources of gap noise and they they fixed all but one (because an idiot neighbor blocked access to the right of way and they haven't got around to dealing with them yet since the problem isn't affecting safety or other power transmission issues.). But now with the sole source of crud I can null it out all the time on most bands including 160 but as you tune across the band you have to re null since the line changes the crud noise phase along its length. There are some frequencies where nulling can't be had (altho by reorienting the sense Antenna or setting up a second one it can. I have three sense antennas out there for this purpose. Sent from my iPad On Feb 11, 2014, at 15:58, Bruce k...@myfairpoint.net wrote: Getting noise from my NW direction. Does not seem to be local. Started wondering what, at distance, could be causing it. At times it seems to have a rhythm like a motor. There are a lot of power generating wind mills showing up. Checking through Google, they generate DC and convert to 3 phase AC it with an inverter. The frequency and phase of the inverter is controlled with a sample from the power grid. Could their inverters have enough sine wave distortion to have harmonic energy? So my question is: Does anyone have first hand knowledge of interference on the low bands from power generator wind mills? Bruce-K1FZ www.qsl.net/k1fz/beveragenotes.html www.qsl.net/k1fz/pennantnotes.html _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: TO7CC
Heard TO7CC at our SS yesterday on 80m CW - 0100z, until about 0130z. You worked K6XT, but I was there too. Will be looking for you on 80m CW at or Sunset this evening, about 0100z and later. 73, tnx, Ray, N6VR On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 7:35 AM, Doug Renwick ve...@sasktel.net wrote: I haven't heard them or seen spots on 160 or 80 for the west coast around 1400 UTC give or take. Doug -Original Message- Try to focuse our work on top band each time as possible. Every nights ops are there. At the end of FT5ZM QRG back quiet but dont Forget that another guys still on fréquences for you. Finaly team stay on the Island untill sunday morning. Dépending cndx Est coast stations Can be ear half and more after SR. In FR time around 2H30 AM. Last night have strong noise even on 80 didn't log much qso in lows bands. TO7CC team _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: Ice
The ice that fell off my Yagi's typically measures about 1 thick off the largest pieces, and 1/2 thick on the smaller thicknesses. I'm going to assume the thick pieces are from the bottoms, so that's probably like 3/4 inch radial ice. We lost power just before sunset last night.The power lines are a mess on my road, I'd guess they use maybe 400 ft spans, so they broke in multiple places. I expect days before we have commercial power. All of my Yagis sprung back except the 40 meter antenna. The ice dropped off one side of the top antenna, so it rotated the elements enough to look pretty ugly. The bottom 40M Yagi lived just fine until big chunks of ice kept banging it, and then one side of one element bent. Many ropes snapped. The next time I need to remember to go out and release tension **before** the ice hits. Once it started icing, none of the ropes running through pulleys could be released. I have not looked at Beverages and in woods and fields, but I have a lot of tree and building damage so I expect some chain saw and receiving antenna work. All in all not bad for such a large amount of ice. 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Ice
The last ice storm surely would have taken down my 160m inverted-L, had it not been for the counterweight at the end. (It's made from #16 THHN, not very strong.) The pulley did not completely ice up, apparently because it moved every so often as ice made the antenna heavier. At one point, the ice on the antenna raised the counterweight way up in the air. After the ice melted, it all returned to the way it was before the storm. I lost one wire on one of the Beverages (where there was a kink from other damage), but it's a matter of time before a bigger ice storm completely takes down both Beverages. I'm toying with the idea of counterweights at the ends to help protect them. The pulleys are already there. 73, Mike www.w0btu.com On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 2:32 PM, Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com wrote: Many ropes snapped. The next time I need to remember to go out and release tension **before** the ice hits. Once it started icing, none of the ropes running through pulleys could be released. _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Ice
Yikes!! BTW - that lower 40m yagi with the bent element probably works just fine! I don't know if you've ever modeled yagis with bent or missing elements, but the results are pretty interesting! Yagis just want to work! :-) GL! -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 3:33 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Ice The ice that fell off my Yagi's typically measures about 1 thick off the largest pieces, and 1/2 thick on the smaller thicknesses. I'm going to assume the thick pieces are from the bottoms, so that's probably like 3/4 inch radial ice. We lost power just before sunset last night.The power lines are a mess on my road, I'd guess they use maybe 400 ft spans, so they broke in multiple places. I expect days before we have commercial power. All of my Yagis sprung back except the 40 meter antenna. The ice dropped off one side of the top antenna, so it rotated the elements enough to look pretty ugly. The bottom 40M Yagi lived just fine until big chunks of ice kept banging it, and then one side of one element bent. Many ropes snapped. The next time I need to remember to go out and release tension **before** the ice hits. Once it started icing, none of the ropes running through pulleys could be released. I have not looked at Beverages and in woods and fields, but I have a lot of tree and building damage so I expect some chain saw and receiving antenna work. All in all not bad for such a large amount of ice. 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Power stayed on!
Genuinely sorry to hear of the unfortunate damage this storm has done to some of us. It takes so much effort to put things together in a way that we're happy with and mother nature can undo it in a heartbeat. Sandy did my damage with salt water submerging all my external antenna switching systems as well as the loss of my wire antennas which snapped from falling branches. This time I escaped damage, I hope those affected get their equipment back to shape as fast as possible. 73, Gary KA1J --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: NQ4I
Need heaters inside the elements, at least towards the ends, that can be turned on to melt the ice. Where there's a will, there's a way to do that. 73, Mike www.w0btu.com On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 2:51 PM, John Harden, D.M.D. jh...@bellsouth.netwrote: Hi all...well the antennas are starting to give up...so far I have lost the top 40m KLM 4 el at 155 ft that is used for the MULT station...it is dangling from the top of the tower..next to go will be the 3 el Telrex 40m RUN top antenna...also ready to fold up is the monster 8 el homebrew 8 el 20m on 89 ft boom...not looking good either is the top 8 el 15m RUN antenna at 155 ft...I might very well lose the rest of the antennas tonight...it is raining and ice pellets and the loads keep increasing on the antennas...we had planed to operate in the ARRL CW this coming weekend...not sure if there will be any antennas left...tomorrow morning will end the storm around 11 am..temps are forecast to rise to 34 degrees F and maybe some melting will tke place. de Rick NQ4I _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Power stayed on!
Looks like we dodged the bullet here also. Storms are unpredictable and go anywhere from right up the Hudson River valley to out to sea Watching the storm track it took a sharp right turn over LI, NY and then a NE tack past Boston and out to sea. About 8 of fluff which stopped about 4PM and likely some rain later tonight from the back side as the temps get into the 40's. We are still getting a few 25-30 mph gusts but not like earlier when it was pretty steady for several hours. I took one pass with the plowtruck at 430 so we can get in/out as needed and will do the cleanup tomorrow. Carl KM1H Subject: Re: Topband: Power stayed on! Genuinely sorry to hear of the unfortunate damage this storm has done to some of us. It takes so much effort to put things together in a way that we're happy with and mother nature can undo it in a heartbeat. Sandy did my damage with salt water submerging all my external antenna switching systems as well as the loss of my wire antennas which snapped from falling branches. This time I escaped damage, I hope those affected get their equipment back to shape as fast as possible. 73, Gary KA1J --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: Question - optimum number of radials
I understand that 120 radials is the golden standard. At what point is there no significant improvement? How much worse is 60 radials? How much worse is 24 radials (4 of 1/4 lambda and 20 or 1/10 lambda)? This may have been discussed in the past, but if there is any engineering reference or field testing that has been done, I would like to know the results. Thanks Dale - N3BNA _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Question - optimum number of radials
w0btu.com/Optimum_number_of_ground_radials_vs_radial_length.html Check the links on that page to N6LF, Rudy Severns' pages. His work has been called the gold standard of radial science. 73, Mike www.w0btu.com On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 5:12 PM, DALE LONG dale.l...@prodigy.net wrote: I understand that 120 radials is the golden standard. At what point is there no significant improvement? How much worse is 60 radials? How much worse is 24 radials (4 of 1/4 lambda and 20 or 1/10 lambda)? _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Question - optimum number of radials
N6LF has done quite a bit of actual testing of various in ground and elevated radial systems. See: http://www.antennasbyn6lf.com/ K3LC has done extensive modeling of both in ground and elevated radial systems: http://www2.gcc.edu/dept/elee/Faculty/Christman.htm However, if the majority of your on/in ground radials are only 0.1 wave you won't need many before the point of diminishing returns. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2/13/2014 6:12 PM, DALE LONG wrote: I understand that 120 radials is the golden standard. At what point is there no significant improvement? How much worse is 60 radials? How much worse is 24 radials (4 of 1/4 lambda and 20 or 1/10 lambda)? This may have been discussed in the past, but if there is any engineering reference or field testing that has been done, I would like to know the results. Thanks Dale - N3BNA _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Ice
I lost one wire on one of the Beverages (where there was a kink from other damage), but it's a matter of time before a bigger ice storm completely takes down both Beverages. I'm toying with the idea of counterweights at the ends to help protect them. The pulleys are already there. 73, Mike www.w0btu.com FWIW, I rigged all my PVC Beverage poles so they are simply zip-tied to metal T-posts. When an ice storm is predicted, all that needs to be done is to clip the ties and let the poles/wire fall to the ground. It takes about 1/2 hour (if even that) to set them upright after the storm. 73, Charlie, N0TT _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Ice
I believe OH8X had one or more “hammers” mounted to their 160 Yagi to help remove the ice buildup. Sadly their extraordinary effort recently fell victim to winds and reportedly torque: http://dx-world.net/2013/oh8x-tower-collapse/ Not sure what the answer is. My Puny 3-el SteppIR with fiberglass elements and retracted innards survived a November ice storm, gusts 60-70 reported locally, and a direct hit to the director by a falling tree and the 160 Inv-L wire. One bracket is bent some, the boom is bent some, but it still works. Repairs when it’s warmer. Take care, there’s more on the way as far as Lower 48’s stormy WX: http://www.weatherstreet.com/states/gfsx-sfc-temperature-and-wind-forecast.htm http://www.weatherstreet.com/states/gfsx-slp-forecast.htm 73, Gary NL7Y _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Question - optimum number of radials
I understand that 120 radials is the golden standard. At what point is there no significant improvement? 120 radials never was a gold standard. The FCC said if a AM BC station uses something like 110 radials, I forget the exact number, they can avoid doing a radial system proof of performance. I think Hams assumed that somehow meant 110 radials or whatever the exact number was were somehow perfect. There is no improvement here on 40M at about 20-30 radials. YMMV. This will be different on different bands at the same location, and different on the same bands at different locations, and even different with different antennas. So what happens in one cause is probably not true in others. Read carefully, and you will see even Rudy Severns says that, so his gold standard isn't gold. 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Question - optimum number of radials
Jerry Sevick, W2FMI, has an interesting comment about the 120 number in his book, The Short Vertical Antenna and Ground Radial. At the end of the first chapter he notes: ...it should be mentioned that the world standard for the number of radials to be used with verticals in the AM broadcast band is 120. This number was based on the classic paper published in 1937 by Brown, Lewis, and Epstein. During the course of a business meeting with Dr. Brown, I asked him how he and his colleagues arrived at the 120 radial figure--because I was quite sure 100 would work as well. His answer was interesting. He said that he and the others had been thinking in terms of 100 radials, but the farmer who plowed in 100 radials had wire left over because copper is soft and stretches easily. When he asked what to do with the extra wire, the farmer was told to plow it in. The result was a world standard of 120 radials. H! Brad, KV5V On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 7:49 PM, Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com wrote: I understand that 120 radials is the golden standard. At what point is there no significant improvement? 120 radials never was a gold standard. The FCC said if a AM BC station uses something like 110 radials, I forget the exact number, they can avoid doing a radial system proof of performance. I think Hams assumed that somehow meant 110 radials or whatever the exact number was were somehow perfect. There is no improvement here on 40M at about 20-30 radials. YMMV. This will be different on different bands at the same location, and different on the same bands at different locations, and even different with different antennas. So what happens in one cause is probably not true in others. Read carefully, and you will see even Rudy Severns says that, so his gold standard isn't gold. 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Question - optimum number of radials
Jerry Sevick, W2FMI, has an interesting comment about the 120 number in his book, The Short Vertical Antenna and Ground Radial. At the end of the first chapter he notes: ...it should be mentioned that the world standard for the number of radials to be used with verticals in the AM broadcast band is 120. This number was based on the classic paper published in 1937 by Brown, Lewis, and Epstein. During the course of a business meeting with Dr. Brown, I asked him how he and his colleagues arrived at the 120 radial figure--because I was quite sure 100 would work as well. His answer was interesting. He said that he and the others had been thinking in terms of 100 radials, but the farmer who plowed in 100 radials had wire left over because copper is soft and stretches easily. When he asked what to do with the extra wire, the farmer was told to plow it in. The result was a world standard of 120 radials. That's an interesting story, but the story-teller must never have looked at the papers. BL and E used 113 radials maxium, not 120. Brown, Lewis, and Epstein's papers are all over the web, if you search for them. The FCC says: At the present development of the art, it is considered that where a vertical radiator is employed with its base on the ground, the ground system should consist of buried radial wires at least one-fourth wave length long. There should be as many of these radials evenly spaced as practicable and in no event less than 90. (120 radials of 0.35 to 0.4 of a wave length in length and spaced 3° is considered an excellent ground system and in case of high base voltage, a base screen of suitable dimensions should be employed.) So you see, the FCC requires 90 radials unless you prove you can make efficiency with fewer. They do not say 120 quarter wave radials, they require 90 1/4 wave or longer, and say 120 radials .35 to .4 wl is considered excellent. _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Question - optimum number of radials
For anyone interested in modeling a vertical with a variable number of radials you might refer back to this post: http://lists.contesting.com/archives//html/Topband/2013-04/msg00017.html Near the bottom you'll find a link to download a .weq format model for use with AutoEZ. AutoEZ requires Microsoft Excel and EZNEC v5. (Shooting myself in the foot here.) Even using the free demo version of AutoEZ you can still take advantage of the multi-config aspect of the model. Manually set the variables to any desired values (such as variable N for number of radials) then use the View Ant button. That will build a temporary .ez format model and send it to EZNEC. Then switch over to the EZNEC main window and click the EZNEC FF Plot button or other buttons as desired. In effect you are using AutoEZ to build the model and EZNEC to process it. If you don't have the Pro/4 (NEC-4) version of EZNEC you can simulate buried radials by putting them ~0.001 wavelengths above ground. For info on that subject see the EZNEC Help Index Elevated Radial Systems. Dan, AC6LA http://ac6la.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: Palomar R-X Noise Bridge
I have a question about using the noise bridge. I have used it cut stubs to 1/4 wavelength using 52 ohm cable with no problems. I now need some stubs using 75 ohm cable which I have on hand. Will the same procedure work for 75 ohm that works for 52 ohm cable, or will the different impedance need to be accounted for. I started to cut cable and this question came to me. My first thought is that it will work fine, but I am not sure. I did some searches on the web but found nothing about it. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Pat Armstrong KF5YZ _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
