Re: Topband: Stew Beef
I completely agree with Don on this. the incessant and utterly meaningless "599" or "59" because it is programmed in and the operator too lazy to think about a real signal report makes the minimal value of contests sink to zero. They have become nothing more than a vehicle to keep the ham radio economy running and the "play" part, after consumer hams have done the plugging. 73 Rob K5UJ <<>> _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Stew Beef
"Back when the signal report was a real part of the exchange and contesters tended to exchange honest reports, a major contest could be an opportunity to determine how well your station got out" The days of "honest reports" in a contest? I am 63 years old, operated my first contest when I was 18 and I don't remember those days. You found out how well your station "got out" by how long you waited in the pileups and how much of the time you could call CQ. "...the minimal value of contests sink to zero." As opposed to all the valuable weather reports, in ane chatter, QRM on DX stations, character assassination and kvetching about "Obama" in the rest of ham radio... "They have become nothing more than a vehicle to keep the ham radio economy running and the "play" part, after consumer hams have done the plugging." In my experience, the average contester is more operationally and technically savvy than the average ham, especially the average ham that complains about them. 73, Kevin K3OX - Original Message - From: "Rob Atkinson" To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, January 8, 2016 9:12:31 AM Subject: Re: Topband: Stew Beef I completely agree with Don on this. the incessant and utterly meaningless "599" or "59" because it is programmed in and the operator too lazy to think about a real signal report makes the minimal value of contests sink to zero. They have become nothing more than a vehicle to keep the ham radio economy running and the "play" part, after consumer hams have done the plugging. 73 Rob K5UJ <<>> _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Stew Beef
Sorry, I think this is nonsense, especially directed toward SPTBDC. If you want to know "how well you got out" and better yet, how well you're hearing, just look at your results listing in columns BestDxKM/MAXP/QRP/LOW and compare with similar stations in your region. Also check whether you appear in anybody else's BestDX column listing. 73, Barry N1EU On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 9:12 AM, Rob Atkinson wrote: > I completely agree with Don on this. the incessant and utterly > meaningless "599" or "59" because it is programmed in and the operator > too lazy to think about a real signal report makes the minimal value > of contests sink to zero. > > They have become nothing more than a vehicle to keep the ham radio > economy running and the "play" part, after consumer hams have done the > plugging. > > 73 > > Rob > K5UJ > > > << that > your RST is likely to be "599" regardless, even when the other op can just > barely dig you out of the noise. Same with contests on other bands, both > phone > and CW. That nonsensical practice has eliminated what was erstwhile > perhaps > the most useful function of contesting, and IMHO, diminishes the > worthiness of > contests altogether. Back when the signal report was a real part of the > exchange and contesters tended to exchange honest reports, a major contest > could be an opportunity to determine how well your station got out, and > into > what localities you put the best and worst signal strength, providing some > insight to improvements you might wish make to your transmitter and antenna > system. >>> > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Stew Beef
What I often do during a phone contest exchange is omit the signal report and only give out the section, serial number, etc. Very few operators request the signal report and when they do I reply 'my report to you is already in your logging program, there is no use in repeating it.' I could say a lot more but it would be deemed 'not politically correct.' Have we hit bottom yet? Doug I wasn't born in Saskatchewan, but I got here as soon as I could. -Original Message- I completely agree with Don on this. the incessant and utterly meaningless "599" or "59" because it is programmed in and the operator too lazy to think about a real signal report makes the minimal value of contests sink to zero. They have become nothing more than a vehicle to keep the ham radio economy running and the "play" part, after consumer hams have done the plugging. 73 Rob K5UJ <<>> _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Stew Beef
Touché > On Jan 8, 2016, at 8:49 AM, kol...@rcn.com wrote: > > In my experience, the average contester is more operationally and > technically savvy than the average ham, especially the average ham that > complains about them. > > 73, Kevin K3OX > > > > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Stew Beef
Especially on 160 meters I don't think the S in RST has a lot of scientific value since there is no real numerical standard as it relates to true signal strength. In my own mind I have come up with a standard in which the S is directly related to the S meter reading on my radio (so I don't have to guess on what S value I should assign to a signal), but on 160 meters when my noise floor is typically S 6.2, that only leaves me with the ability to send a 6, 7, 8, or 9 for the S value (sometimes I will send a value of 5 for the S value when the the signal is right at my noise floor). Others might consider a value of 9 for when a persons signal is 30 dB over S9. So no matter what a person sends you for the S value, what does it really mean, not much (regardless if you are in a contest or not on 160 meters). Contests have a lot of value regarding improvement in technology to handle nearby strong signals, improve or maintain operator proficiency under difficult conditions, motivation to improve your stations efficiency (including the ability to multi-task), justification of spectrum (increase activity on our bands which often are under utilized), provides an event to look forward to and often social interaction, etc. I would have no problem getting rid of RST reports in contests as they really are meaningless (based on my above comments), but I have come to find contests (especially on 160 meters) a great way to evaluate and improve my station and my own skills. I often go back to the reverse beacon network after a contest to compare my signal with other nearby stations to see how well the signal level from my station stacks up. 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 9:12 AM, Rob Atkinson wrote: > I completely agree with Don on this. the incessant and utterly > meaningless "599" or "59" because it is programmed in and the operator > too lazy to think about a real signal report makes the minimal value > of contests sink to zero. > > They have become nothing more than a vehicle to keep the ham radio > economy running and the "play" part, after consumer hams have done the > plugging. > > 73 > > Rob > K5UJ > > > << that > your RST is likely to be "599" regardless, even when the other op can just > barely dig you out of the noise. Same with contests on other bands, both > phone > and CW. That nonsensical practice has eliminated what was erstwhile > perhaps > the most useful function of contesting, and IMHO, diminishes the > worthiness of > contests altogether. Back when the signal report was a real part of the > exchange and contesters tended to exchange honest reports, a major contest > could be an opportunity to determine how well your station got out, and > into > what localities you put the best and worst signal strength, providing some > insight to improvements you might wish make to your transmitter and antenna > system. >>> > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Stew Beef
One really needs to look at the contest rules before deciding to not send RST. If it is the rules, please send it. A few years ago, there was a bit of a blow up on the CQ Contest reflector over this very issue. A high scoring station decided to not send RST. He did this in order to shave a few seconds off his contest exchange, and some folks cried fowl. In the end, he decided to submit his log as a checklog. So - instead of a big score, he scored zero... So - do whatever you like. SP does not require RST, so no problem there. But - be aware that some contests require RST, and may lead to a DQ for not following the rules... Tom - VE3CX On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Doug Renwick wrote: > What I often do during a phone contest exchange is omit the signal report > and only give out the section, serial number, etc. Very few operators > request the signal report and when they do I reply 'my report to you is > already in your logging program, there is no use in repeating it.' I could > say a lot more but it would be deemed 'not politically correct.' Have we > hit bottom yet? > Doug > > I wasn't born in Saskatchewan, but I got here as soon as I could. > > -Original Message- > > I completely agree with Don on this. the incessant and utterly > meaningless "599" or "59" because it is programmed in and the operator > too lazy to think about a real signal report makes the minimal value > of contests sink to zero. > > They have become nothing more than a vehicle to keep the ham radio > economy running and the "play" part, after consumer hams have done the > plugging. > > 73 > > Rob > K5UJ > > > << that > your RST is likely to be "599" regardless, even when the other op can just > barely dig you out of the noise. Same with contests on other bands, both > phone > and CW. That nonsensical practice has eliminated what was erstwhile > perhaps > the most useful function of contesting, and IMHO, diminishes the worthiness > of > contests altogether. Back when the signal report was a real part of the > exchange and contesters tended to exchange honest reports, a major contest > could be an opportunity to determine how well your station got out, and > into > what localities you put the best and worst signal strength, providing some > insight to improvements you might wish make to your transmitter and antenna > system. >>> > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Stew Beef
Aren’t we forgetting that the signal report is how well the other station is receiving us, not how well we are “getting out”. One receiving station may have a high local noise level and reports your signal as 449, another station with less local noise gives you a 559, and another station with low local noise and/or an effective noise cancelling system gives you a 599. All for the same number of desired signal microvolts arriving at their location. The signal report is more of an indication of their RX conditions rather than indicative of your TX capability. 73 Lloyd - N9LB -From: "Rob Atkinson" To: Cc: Sent: Fri, 8 Jan 2016 08:12:31 -0600 Subject: Re: Topband: Stew Beef I completely agree with Don on this. the incessant and utterly meaningless "599" or "59" because it is programmed in and the operator too lazy to think about a real signal report makes the minimal value of contests sink to zero. They have become nothing more than a vehicle to keep the ham radio economy running and the "play" part, after consumer hams have done the plugging. 73 Rob K5UJ _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Stew Beef
It's been a long time since I entered a contest seriously so I can't get DQd. Doug I wasn't born in Saskatchewan, but I got here as soon as I could. _ One really needs to look at the contest rules before deciding to not send RST. If it is the rules, please send it. A few years ago, there was a bit of a blow up on the CQ Contest reflector over this very issue. A high scoring station decided to not send RST. He did this in order to shave a few seconds off his contest exchange, and some folks cried fowl. In the end, he decided to submit his log as a checklog. So - instead of a big score, he scored zero... So - do whatever you like. SP does not require RST, so no problem there. But - be aware that some contests require RST, and may lead to a DQ for not following the rules... Tom - VE3CX --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Stew Beef
Does anyone recall the signal reports provided by Shortwave Listeners? It was SINFO, later SINPO. Signal, interference, noise, propagation, and overall. - If I recall correctly. It gave a better picture of signal quality, but took time. SWL's have time, Contesters do not. My $0.02 Art - NK8X > > > > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > ᐧ _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Stew Beef
So for contesters the next logical step would be to eliminate the signal report. Doug I wasn't born in Saskatchewan, but I got here as soon as I could. -Original Message- Does anyone recall the signal reports provided by Shortwave Listeners? It was SINFO, later SINPO. Signal, interference, noise, propagation, and overall. - If I recall correctly. It gave a better picture of signal quality, but took time. SWL's have time, Contesters do not. My $0.02 Art - NK8X --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Stew Beef
"...The days of "honest reports" in a contest? I am 63 years old, operated my first contest when I was 18 and I don't remember those days. You found out how well your station "got out" by how long you waited in the pileups and how much of the time you could call CQ. ..." Well, when I retired at 60, because the employer decided that at this age, brain-rot sets in, I spent three months of new-found 'spare' time typing my logs for the last 40 years. Genuine RST seemed to appear in contests until the mid 70s. Now, stuck with a DOS log, too old for exporting, I blench at the thought of typing 62 years'-worth, especially as I've made more QSOs since retiring than before. When I win the lottery [my XYL believes in The Power of Positive Thinking; I believe in Sod's Law] yes, when, I shall employ a typist who might be able to do things even a modern Window$ log-prog can't, too. I shall also employ tramps [hobos] to march the streets with sandwich-boards proclaiming "Genuine RST or Nothing". 73 - Mort, G2JL _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Stew Beef
"...some folks cried fowl" So, did he chicken out ? 73 - Mort, G2JL _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Stew Beef
Eggsactly. -- Michael Adams | N1EN | m...@n1en.org -Original Message- "...some folks cried fowl" So, did he chicken out ? 73 - Mort, G2JL _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: BOG near salt water
When you say "NOT work", you probably need to specifically list the diminished performance attribute due to more conductive media underneath. It is very easy to model a BOG over more conductive media. It should be noted that the ability to form a *pattern* is retained, but the *sensitivity* is diminished. In the case that other RX antennas are less desirable for whatever reason, it would be good to know that a BOG still could be used likely requiring a remote RX amp, and would still have enough pattern to do the necessary business of reducing side and rear reception of unwanted noise and signals. BOGs have an unpredictable success rate mostly due to not taking steps to deal with the large variation in velocity factor from site to individual site, and a BOG being able to form a single direction pattern with significant front-to-back ratio only on one band. The pattern of a well designed BOG is quite similar to a K9AY. This would still be true over salt muck along with the need for amplification. 73, Guy K2AV On Wednesday, January 6, 2016, Milt > wrote: > Val, > > Beverages of any type will NOT work over salt water or earth where the > chemical makeup of the earth produces a highly conductive material. > > Here is the way I understand the theory. > > The Beverage works on the principle of a two wire transmission line where > one side of the transmission line is your Beverage wire and the other side > is the earth. > > The wire half has RF voltage induced in it by 'tilting' of the wave due to > the difference in the velocity factor of the 2 halves of the 'transmission > line'. The signal travels faster in the wire than it does in the earth, > producing the miniscule amount of RF voltage in the wire, which is > impedance matched to your coaxial cable. > > If the medium which comprises the other half of your Beverage system has a > VF at or nearly so the same as your wire half, no RF voltage is produces > and you will NOT have any signal. > > Congratulations on your success. It means the earth comprising the other > half of your BOG is not salt saturated. You are getting signal tilt > producing an RF voltage, and therefore signals. > > If you were to move the BOG over the salt water and have your grounds at > each end connected to the salt you will find that there will be for all > intents and purposes ZERO signal produced. It is then truly just a > balanced open wire feed line and nothing else. > > Keep up the good work. Always try and prove things for your self. That > is what it is all about. > > 73, and good luck, de Milt, N5IA > > > -Original Message- From: Hugh Valentine > Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 9:15 PM > To: TopBand > Subject: Topband: BOG near salt water > > Some say a BOG is not effective at/over salt water. > > For grins I installed a 200’ BOG to Europe. 4:1 Binocular XFMR, #18 > single wire, (92 Ohm Termination= 1.1:1 SWR on RG6 cable) 4’ Ground Rods, > No radials. > Works about same as K9AY. Maybe 8DB down in sig strength. > Installed approximately from 1’ to a maximum of 30’ from salt water. > > I would say it works and can be installed rapidly. > > Val > N4RJ > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband -- Sent via Gmail Mobile on my iPhone _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Stew Beef
I agree. This is my biggest gripe about contests, meaningless signal reports. You hear SIG 599 PSE RPT. Any data sent which does not convey information is noise. This turns off hams, and more importantly, prospective hams. Hopefully we are using real signal reports during the Stew Perry contest. Stew would have wanted it that way. Mike N2MS - Original Message - From: Rob Atkinson To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Fri, 08 Jan 2016 14:12:31 - (UTC) Subject: Re: Topband: Stew Beef I completely agree with Don on this. the incessant and utterly meaningless "599" or "59" because it is programmed in and the operator too lazy to think about a real signal report makes the minimal value of contests sink to zero. They have become nothing more than a vehicle to keep the ham radio economy running and the "play" part, after consumer hams have done the plugging. 73 Rob K5UJ _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: RST in contests
Guy - I think we have beat this one into the ground. And it really isn't consistent with the purpose of this reflector. Thanks. Tree N6TR _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Stew Beef
No he just ducked "...some folks cried fowl" So, did he chicken out ? 73 - Mort, G2JL _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband . _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Stew Beef
On Fri,1/8/2016 6:49 AM, kol...@rcn.com wrote: In my experience, the average contester is more operationally and technically savvy than the average ham, especially the average ham that complains about them. I agree. The contesters I know have better rigs, better antenna systems, better operating skills, better knowledge of propagation than the average active ham. And they chose/put together those "better" things by a lot of study. There are, of course, exceptions. :) 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Stew Beef
You don't USE signal reports in Stew Perry, just grid squares. The only place anybody might use real signal reports in contests these days is QRP contests. 73, Barry N1EU On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 12:20 PM, wrote: > > I agree. This is my biggest gripe about contests, meaningless signal > reports. > > You hear SIG 599 PSE RPT. Any data sent which does not convey information > is noise. > > This turns off hams, and more importantly, prospective hams. > > Hopefully we are using real signal reports during the Stew Perry contest. > Stew would have wanted it that way. > > Mike N2MS > > - Original Message - > From: Rob Atkinson > To: topband@contesting.com > Sent: Fri, 08 Jan 2016 14:12:31 - (UTC) > Subject: Re: Topband: Stew Beef > > I completely agree with Don on this. the incessant and utterly > meaningless "599" or "59" because it is programmed in and the operator > too lazy to think about a real signal report makes the minimal value > of contests sink to zero. > > They have become nothing more than a vehicle to keep the ham radio > economy running and the "play" part, after consumer hams have done the > plugging. > > 73 > > Rob > K5UJ > > > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Stew Beef
On Fri,1/8/2016 8:34 AM, Mort wrote: Now, stuck with a DOS log, too old for exporting, I blench at the thought of typing 62 years'-worth, especially as I've made more QSOs since retiring than before. Before giving up on exporting it, cast about for text-based methods of exporting it to various spreadsheet programs. You may spend a week figuring out how to do it, but that's a LOT less than retyping it. :) Several years ago, I dug out old logs from the '50s when I was W8FNI, then the 60s and 70s when I was W9NEC. All paper. My first challenge was to try to figure out what time zone I was using, and in most, I still don't know. Other tasks have percolated to the top, and I've never taken the time to type most of them (although I did start). 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: Signal Reports
On Fri,1/8/2016 9:32 AM, Barry N1EU wrote: The only place anybody might use real signal reports in contests these days is QRP contests. When I'm running QRP, my "signal report" is that the other station hears me and gives me TU after I send my exchange! 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: Giving "true" signal reports
What do you give if you listen to the signal on a beverage? Does it have a preamp and do you take that into account? A S9 on the transmit antenna won't be S9 on a beverage. I think the idea of using a contest to find out how you are getting out is fine but you don't, as others have already pointed out, need a signal report for that. Did you work the station you were calling? Did it take a LONG time or not? What were the conditions at their end? LOTS of variables including the conditions at their station. If you want "true" signal reports use the reverse beacon network. All the above applies but you can compare your signal to someone else's knowing the conditions were similar if not the same. Ron N4XD _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Stew Beef
On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 12:20 PM, wrote: > Hopefully we are using real signal reports during the Stew Perry contest. > Stew would have wanted it that way. It's interesting to see people complaining about general contest issues when the thread is specifically about the Stew Perry. Some clearly are clueless about the Stew Perry format. All one has to do to see what is going on in the "Stew", is Google "Stew Perry Rules" and go look. Not a great inconvenience, really. Hint: " 4. Exchange: Four character grid square (i.e. CN85). RST is optional." Once in a great while I will hear a 599, but just about always only the grid square. N1MM's entry window for the Stew has call and grid, so that's it. 599 is in the Cabrillo log format, but that is probably just a concession to log-checking programs. And how many of us were actually acquainted with Stew before he joined the ranks of Silent Keys, while he was still wandering upon the face of the earth? Without that, how does one know what Stew would have wanted? Voodoo? Seance? 73, Guy K2AV _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: What would Stew want?
The Boring ARC does not pretend to know whether or not Stew would want the TBDC named after him. The Boring ARC did not create the Stew - it just saw a good idea that came together and needed some organization for the concept to grow into what it is today. The Stew concept was invented by a group of interested hams - and the rules were developed in committee. I can't honestly remember all of the people who were involved in the discussion - but I know that Bill Fisher, KM9P / W4AN (a silent key himself) was very much involved. Maybe someone else who was there can provide more details. The first Stew was run - and then there was nobody around to do the work of generating the results. That is when the Boring ARC stepped in. I do believe that Stew would like some of the concepts incorporated into the Stew contest. He might even operate it given the chance. However, even if that is not true, I hope Stew is happy with the fact that the event is something that honors his contribution to the band - and if nothing else - provides a reason for people who are new to the band to wonder who this K1BB [sic] fellow is. I can't think of any other contest that has taken the name of an individual - so this must be a great honor! 73 Tree N6TR (who never met Stew - but heard him on the band at least once) _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Stew Beef
How? I don´t remember any rig at that time showing signal strength correctly and I started in the hobby in 1958. Only a few modern SDR rigs do it nowadays. And how to you report genuine signal strength reports with AGC turned off? Or while receiving on special rx antennas? Signal strength reports are totally meaningless, are just there to synch to something following. 73 Peter -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mort Sent: Freitag, 8. Januar 2016 17:34 Genuine RST seemed to appear in contests until the mid 70s _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: BOG near salt water
"When you say "NOT work", you probably need to specifically list the diminished performance attribute due to more conductive media underneath." The issue with horizontal wire and the ground is the fact that the reflected signal from the ground is 180 degree out of phase, (-1 in the formula) and with a good ground conductivity the current in the wire and the current in the ground will deeply cancel each other. That’s why any horizontal wire very near the ground only receives along the wire and vertical polarized. 73's JC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Stew Beef
ENOUGH of this silly bickering! Ham radio is supposed to be FUN! (Remember that? You know, where we smile, and get a warm fuzzy feeling? :-) Instead, some curmudgeons chose to frown, pout, fume and fulminate --and attempt to share their misery with as many others as possible-- over things that are NEVER going to change. 73, Mike www.w0btu.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: SAignal reporting
A contest program that interfaces with the rig could read AGC and be calibrated to give adequate signal-strength readings, maybe not quite equal to a laboratory field-strength meter but better than auto-5NN. Few things are more ludicrous than being given 5NN & then asked for four or five repeats, as happens to us peasants with restricted antennas. 73 - Mort, G2JL _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: SAignal reporting
Hi Mort, Well it could happen to us LIDs with poor fists on every QSO. 73, Bill KU8H On 01/08/2016 03:57 PM, Mort wrote: A contest program that interfaces with the rig could read AGC and be calibrated to give adequate signal-strength readings, maybe not quite equal to a laboratory field-strength meter but better than auto-5NN. Few things are more ludicrous than being given 5NN & then asked for four or five repeats, as happens to us peasants with restricted antennas. 73 - Mort, G2JL _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: What would Stew want?
enough said, or needs to be said,,, lets close this thread now dx is 73 john w8wej On 1/8/2016 6:18 PM, Tree wrote: The Boring ARC does not pretend to know whether or not Stew would want the TBDC named after him. The Boring ARC did not create the Stew - it just saw a good idea that came together and needed some organization for the concept to grow into what it is today. The Stew concept was invented by a group of interested hams - and the rules were developed in committee. I can't honestly remember all of the people who were involved in the discussion - but I know that Bill Fisher, KM9P / W4AN (a silent key himself) was very much involved. Maybe someone else who was there can provide more details. The first Stew was run - and then there was nobody around to do the work of generating the results. That is when the Boring ARC stepped in. I do believe that Stew would like some of the concepts incorporated into the Stew contest. He might even operate it given the chance. However, even if that is not true, I hope Stew is happy with the fact that the event is something that honors his contribution to the band - and if nothing else - provides a reason for people who are new to the band to wonder who this K1BB [sic] fellow is. I can't think of any other contest that has taken the name of an individual - so this must be a great honor! 73 Tree N6TR (who never met Stew - but heard him on the band at least once) _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: BOG near salt water
Not arguing at all with your "why" that goes with diminished performance. Just pointing out that it's not an on-off switch but a diminishment to a BOG that can still be useful with amplification and attention to issues that hound all BOGs. Regards, Guy K2AV On Friday, January 8, 2016, JC wrote: > "When you say "NOT work", you probably need to specifically list the > diminished performance attribute due to more conductive media underneath." > > > > The issue with horizontal wire and the ground is the fact that the > reflected signal from the ground is 180 degree out of phase, (-1 in the > formula) and with a good ground conductivity the current in the wire and > the current in the ground will deeply cancel each other. That’s why any > horizontal wire very near the ground only receives along the wire and > vertical polarized. > > 73's > JC > > -- Sent via Gmail Mobile on my iPhone _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: placement oc coil
Hello to all.I am planning a 60 foot vertical.I am wanting to either place a coil on the vertical for topband.The vertical is a hy-tower.I have base loaded(not very effective) I have toploaded with a single wire(not enough room).I now have plenty of room.So my question. Base load with many radials,60+ top load at the highest with wires? top load with coil? and if this is best where should the coil be placed. thanks to all es 73 john w5jmw _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: placement oc coil
Hello John I, too, have experimented with base and top loading with verticals on Topband. No question about it, the toploading is much better. Just take a look at your feedpoint impedance with the base coil vs any sort of top loading. One point to note, a specific coil that will resonate the base will not provide the same loading if placed at the top...more "coil" will be needed if mounted near the top of the antenna. When I had a single 65' vertical with 90 radials resonated with T wire loading I had a base impedance near 25 ohms...the same 65' vertical with a large EF Johnson broadcast coil at the base gives me close to 10 ohms...ugh! I use the base loading as it provides a cleaner installation vs. overhead loading wires but if I had my druthers they would be top loaded with an 80M trap and "L" wire to resonate on 160. Top load if you can and let us know your results 73 de AG6X -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of w5...@towerfarm.net Sent: Friday, January 08, 2016 3:10 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: placement oc coil Hello to all.I am planning a 60 foot vertical.I am wanting to either place a coil on the vertical for topband.The vertical is a hy-tower.I have base loaded(not very effective) I have toploaded with a single wire(not enough room).I now have plenty of room.So my question. Base load with many radials,60+ top load at the highest with wires? top load with coil? and if this is best where should the coil be placed. thanks to all es 73 john w5jmw _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: placement oc coil
Rule of thumb...The higher you place the loading coil on the tower before the horizontal top loading wire, the more efficient the antenna will be. If the coil is at the top and then connects to a top loading wire you solve several problems. If the wire end is brought temporarily near the ground if can be punned for resonance of the vertical. This will avoid having to go up avoid you having to adjust the coil. Also an old trick was to tape a #47 light bulb with a few turns at the junction at the top of the tower. Feed a few watts in the evening till you get visible illumination then start trimming the end of the wire. If the light gets brighter you are going in the right direction but if it dims just add more wire till it gets to its brightest point. You might need a series cap at the base to tune out any reluctance. Or an MFJ-259 will tell you how much fixed capacitance to put in. If the MFJ tells you at the base you need some ore inductance a simple L network can deal with that. Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ On 1/8/2016 7:09 PM, w5...@towerfarm.net wrote: Hello to all.I am planning a 60 foot vertical.I am wanting to either place a coil on the vertical for topband.The vertical is a hy-tower.I have base loaded(not very effective) I have toploaded with a single wire(not enough room).I now have plenty of room.So my question. Base load with many radials,60+ top load at the highest with wires? top load with coil? and if this is best where should the coil be placed. thanks to all es 73 john w5jmw _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: placement oc coil
_ A. E. BUZZ JEHLE POB 2277 BANDERA TX 78003-2277 USA 1 830 796 4196 CELL 1 713 725 5914 On Jan 9, 2016, at 12:24 AM, Herbert Schoenbohm wrote: Rule of thumb...The higher you place the loading coil on the tower before the horizontal top loading wire, the more efficient the antenna will be. If the coil is at the top and then connects to a top loading wire you solve several problems. If the wire end is brought temporarily near the ground if can be punned for resonance of the vertical. This will avoid having to go up avoid you having to adjust the coil. Also an old trick was to tape a #47 light bulb with a few turns at the junction at the top of the tower. Feed a few watts in the evening till you get visible illumination then start trimming the end of the wire. If the light gets brighter you are going in the right direction but if it dims just add more wire till it gets to its brightest point. You might need a series cap at the base to tune out any reluctance. Or an MFJ-259 will tell you how much fixed capacitance to put in. If the MFJ tells you at the base you need some ore inductance a simple L network can dea l with that. Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ On 1/8/2016 7:09 PM, w5...@towerfarm.net wrote: > Hello to all.I am planning a 60 foot vertical.I am wanting to either place a > coil on the vertical for topband.The vertical is a hy-tower.I have base > loaded(not very effective) I have toploaded with a single wire(not enough > room).I now have plenty of room.So my question. > Base load with many radials,60+ > top load at the highest with wires? > top load with coil? and if this is best where should the coil be placed. > > thanks to all es 73 john w5jmw > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: [Bulk] placement oc coil
Rudy N6LF has covered the top loading issues pretty thoroughly, see http://rudys.typepad.com/files/qex-short-verticals-for-160m.pdf Bottom line IMO: install as many top loading wires as you can as horizontal as possible and then consider a loading coil. I had eight 6' spokes of 3/8 Al tubing and a perimeter wire to resonate 40' of 3" irrigation pipe on 80m w/o any coils. Worked great on my barn's steel roof. Grant KZ1W On 1/8/2016 15:09 PM, w5...@towerfarm.net wrote: Hello to all.I am planning a 60 foot vertical.I am wanting to either place a coil on the vertical for topband.The vertical is a hy-tower.I have base loaded(not very effective) I have toploaded with a single wire(not enough room).I now have plenty of room.So my question. Base load with many radials,60+ top load at the highest with wires? top load with coil? and if this is best where should the coil be placed. thanks to all es 73 john w5jmw _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
