Re: Topband: Receive loop observations
I couldn't resist..K9YC says"The BEST way to buy ferrite parts is...buy in quantity from industrial distributors" Well, first off, I don't need quantity - I need one or two ferrite cores.so, I guess I'm "out of luck," eh? Let's see --- to test K9YC's hypothesis, I went shopping, on line, at three distributors, one of which was recommended by K9YC, for two ferrite material cores... 1) Amidon 2 each FT-114-61 = $4.50 Shipping = $13.43 Total: 17.93 2) Newark 2 each FT-114-61 = $2.60 Shipping = $9.30 Total: 11.90 3) W8DIZ' Kits and parts 4 each FT-114-61 = $7.00 Shipping = $5.34 Total: $12.34 Hmmm - looks like I can purchase two more of what I need from W8DIZ for $0.44 more than distributor #2..OR, put another wayit would cost me $2.16 more to purchase four cores from Newark than from W8DIZ. Ok, in the context of "fair markup," I guess "reasonable," a term used by myself and K7HP to describe our dealings with W8DIZ, remains an "ok" descriptor. 71.5/72 de Jim R. K9JWV From: Topband on behalf of Jim Brown Sent: Saturday, April 2, 2016 4:04 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Receive loop observations On Sat,4/2/2016 12:52 PM, HankP wrote: > BTW Kits and Parts has good assortment of cores at reasonable > priceshttp://www.kitsandparts.com/toroids.php 73 Hank K7HP That depends on how much markup you consider reasonable. The BEST way, by far, to buy ferrite parts is to buy in quantity from industrial distributors like Newark, Allied, and other more specialized distributors that focus on magnetic materials. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Receive loop observations
Hi Herb (KV4FZ), You said "but the 50 turns is going to be a chore" The only problem I find with winding a core with many turns is keeping track of the number of turns. What I do to solve the counting problem is that I take a zoomed in picture showing all the windings (using my smart phone camera, or one of my dedicated digital cameras), and this allows me to easily count how many turns are really on the core (versus what I thought I counted as I wound the core). Take the picture so the core fills up almost the entire camera screen, then when you view the picture you can zoom in even more (as needed) as you move around the core counting turns. I then add or remove turns as necessary for the desired number of turns. 50 turns are easy to count using this method. I just counted 103 turns on a T68-6 core using this method (wire size 30 awg = 0.010" diameter), and it took less than 2 minutes to count. I now often watch TV while winding cores since real time counting is no longer a critical task. 73, Don (wd8dsb) _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Receive loop observations
Better check Newarks minimum order policy..."the fine print"...I think it's $20. Also check Amidons cost per unit cost for the purchase of 100. Then sell the remainder to list members who might be interested. Also keep some in your junque box...you will go down this road again most likely. Yeah I know...you only need two... Cecil K5DL Sent using recycled electrons. > On Apr 3, 2016, at 8:06 AM, James Rodenkirch wrote: > > I couldn't resist..K9YC says"The BEST way to buy ferrite > parts is...buy in quantity from industrial distributors" > > Well, first off, I don't need quantity - I need one or two ferrite > cores.so, I guess I'm "out of luck," eh? > > Let's see --- to test K9YC's hypothesis, I went shopping, on line, at three > distributors, one of which was recommended by K9YC, for two ferrite material > cores... > > 1) Amidon > > 2 each FT-114-61 = $4.50 > Shipping = $13.43 > Total: 17.93 > > 2) Newark > > 2 each FT-114-61 = $2.60 > Shipping = $9.30 > Total: 11.90 > > 3) W8DIZ' Kits and parts > > 4 each FT-114-61 = $7.00 > Shipping = $5.34 > Total: $12.34 > > Hmmm - looks like I can purchase two more of what I need from W8DIZ > for $0.44 more than distributor #2..OR, put another wayit would cost > me $2.16 more to purchase four cores from Newark than from W8DIZ. Ok, in the > context of "fair markup," I guess "reasonable," a term used by myself and > K7HP to describe our dealings with W8DIZ, remains an "ok" descriptor. > > 71.5/72 de Jim R. K9JWV > > > From: Topband on behalf of Jim Brown > > Sent: Saturday, April 2, 2016 4:04 PM > To: topband@contesting.com > Subject: Re: Topband: Receive loop observations > >> On Sat,4/2/2016 12:52 PM, HankP wrote: >> BTW Kits and Parts has good assortment of cores at reasonable >> priceshttp://www.kitsandparts.com/toroids.php 73 Hank K7HP > > That depends on how much markup you consider reasonable. The BEST way, > by far, to buy ferrite parts is to buy in quantity from industrial > distributors like Newark, Allied, and other more specialized > distributors that focus on magnetic materials. > > 73, Jim K9YC > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Receive loop observations
You make my case, Cecil...my "requirements" are - I need two - and not in the position of buying beaucoup and hoping I can sell, at cost, to others I forgot the minimum "reqmt" of Newark - thanks for the reminder -- makes my position - small companies like W8DIZ' are more relevant when it's a onesy-twosy thang! 72 Jim R. From: Cecil Acuff Sent: Sunday, April 3, 2016 8:40 AM To: James Rodenkirch Cc: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Receive loop observations Better check Newarks minimum order policy..."the fine print"...I think it's $20. Also check Amidons cost per unit cost for the purchase of 100. Then sell the remainder to list members who might be interested. Also keep some in your junque box...you will go down this road again most likely. Yeah I know...you only need two... Cecil K5DL Sent using recycled electrons. > On Apr 3, 2016, at 8:06 AM, James Rodenkirch wrote: > > I couldn't resist..K9YC says"The BEST way to buy ferrite > parts is...buy in quantity from industrial distributors" > > Well, first off, I don't need quantity - I need one or two ferrite > cores.so, I guess I'm "out of luck," eh? > > Let's see --- to test K9YC's hypothesis, I went shopping, on line, at three > distributors, one of which was recommended by K9YC, for two ferrite material > cores... > > 1) Amidon > > 2 each FT-114-61 = $4.50 > Shipping = $13.43 > Total: 17.93 > > 2) Newark > > 2 each FT-114-61 = $2.60 > Shipping = $9.30 > Total: 11.90 > > 3) W8DIZ' Kits and parts > > 4 each FT-114-61 = $7.00 > Shipping = $5.34 > Total: $12.34 > > Hmmm - looks like I can purchase two more of what I need from W8DIZ > for $0.44 more than distributor #2..OR, put another wayit would cost > me $2.16 more to purchase four cores from Newark than from W8DIZ. Ok, in the > context of "fair markup," I guess "reasonable," a term used by myself and > K7HP to describe our dealings with W8DIZ, remains an "ok" descriptor. > > 71.5/72 de Jim R. K9JWV > > > From: Topband on behalf of Jim Brown > > Sent: Saturday, April 2, 2016 4:04 PM > To: topband@contesting.com > Subject: Re: Topband: Receive loop observations > >> On Sat,4/2/2016 12:52 PM, HankP wrote: >> BTW Kits and Parts has good assortment of cores at reasonable >> priceshttp://www.kitsandparts.com/toroids.php 73 Hank K7HP > > That depends on how much markup you consider reasonable. The BEST way, > by far, to buy ferrite parts is to buy in quantity from industrial > distributors like Newark, Allied, and other more specialized > distributors that focus on magnetic materials. > > 73, Jim K9YC > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Receive loop observations
On 4/3/2016 7:12 AM, Don Kirk wrote: Hi Herb (KV4FZ), You said "but the 50 turns is going to be a chore" The only problem I find with winding a core with many turns is keeping track of the number of turns. What I do to solve the counting problem is that I take a zoomed in picture showing all the windings (using my smart I have come to the same conclusion about turns counting. What I do is to calculate the length of wire needed and cut it to this length plus 10%. Then I put the core at the midpoint of the wire and wind half the turns passing one end through the core and wind the other half of the turns passing the other end through the core. When I get most of the wire on the core, I look at the core through my stereo microscope and count the turns. Then I do the last few turns actually counting as I go along. When I think I have 50 turns, I do a final recount. Alternately, I could use the microscope camera to take a photo. If I didn't have the microscope, I might get away with my DSLR camera, using a "lens extension tube" to fake the lens into macro focus lengths. The lens extension tube is just a hollow tube with bayonet fittings that goes between the lens and body. It costs a few bucks, way cheaper than a $500 macro lens. In most cases (other than my NCJ design), you are winding for inductance or resonant frequency, so you just precut the wire, wind it all onto the core, and then do: 1. Measure inductance, 2. Remove a turn. 3. repeat... If you want a really challenging coil winding experience, build a pair of 5B4AGN filter boxes like I did. Figure an entire weekend just to wind the coils. Rick N6RK _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: Preampm for 160 meter receive loop
OK - did a little listening yesterday evening and this A.M. on 160 with my loop and found band noise way down, relative to my transmitting antenna (an Inverted U). So, I'd like to add a pre-amp at the base of the loop BUT when I google 160 meter preamp for sale (or 160 meter preamp kit) the only items I find are a DXE product and an ARR 1 module. Either is/are more than I care to spend (not 'cuz I am "cheap," but 'cuz it's a loop, not a Beveridge or a K9AY loop, and I don't expect this loop to be that competitive with more sophisticated receive antennas). Any ideas or places to vector me to? I am disabled and can't operate any kind of tool BUT do have a friend who'll build a kit for me so a kit wud work. I saw the ICE pre-amps and wish they were still around - looks like that would be an excel "first start" kind pre-amp to purchase. Off-line replies are totally ok - don't need any "nah, this unit is better than what 'he' just said" sort of replies - just some ideas...thank you, in advance, for you replies. 71.5/72 de Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Receive loop observations
Jim's right when you need a quantity of ferrites. When buying onesy-twosys then go for the retailer. I've never liked Amidon's high shipping costs. Charlie, N0TT On Sun, 3 Apr 2016 13:06:26 + James Rodenkirch writes: > I couldn't resist..K9YC says"The BEST way to buy > ferrite parts is...buy in quantity from industrial distributors" > > > Well, first off, I don't need quantity - I need one or two ferrite > cores.so, I guess I'm "out of luck," eh? > > Let's see --- to test K9YC's hypothesis, I went shopping, on line, > at three distributors, one of which was recommended by K9YC, for two > ferrite material cores... > > 1) Amidon > > 2 each FT-114-61 = $4.50 > Shipping = $13.43 > Total: 17.93 > > 2) Newark > > 2 each FT-114-61 = $2.60 > Shipping = $9.30 > Total: 11.90 > > 3) W8DIZ' Kits and parts > > 4 each FT-114-61 = $7.00 > Shipping = $5.34 > Total: $12.34 > > Hmmm - looks like I can purchase two more of what I need > from W8DIZ for $0.44 more than distributor #2..OR, put another > wayit would cost me $2.16 more to purchase four cores from > Newark than from W8DIZ. Ok, in the context of "fair markup," I guess > "reasonable," a term used by myself and K7HP to describe our > dealings with W8DIZ, remains an "ok" descriptor. > > 71.5/72 de Jim R. K9JWV > > > From: Topband on behalf of Jim > Brown > Sent: Saturday, April 2, 2016 4:04 PM > To: topband@contesting.com > Subject: Re: Topband: Receive loop observations > > On Sat,4/2/2016 12:52 PM, HankP wrote: > > BTW Kits and Parts has good assortment of cores at reasonable > priceshttp://www.kitsandparts.com/toroids.php 73 Hank K7HP > > That depends on how much markup you consider reasonable. The BEST > way, > by far, to buy ferrite parts is to buy in quantity from industrial > distributors like Newark, Allied, and other more specialized > distributors that focus on magnetic materials. > > 73, Jim K9YC > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Receive loop observations
If you're on the air and have neighbors, you've got RX noise, and most of it comes from noisy electronics. SO -- you need ferrite cores to suppress that noise. You also need ferrite cores to kill common mode current on antennas. If you can buy cores that do both, you can buy in quantity. N6RK noted that a #43 core could be used, with somewhat reduced efficiency. Efficiency usually doesn't matter for RX applications. #43 cores are excellent for winding chokes to kill RFI above 4 MHz; #31 cores are better below 4 MHz, and work well above 4 MHz. Also -- most ferrite cores sold at ham flea markets are either Fair-Rite #43 or are similar cores from another mfr. Most of us have ham neighbors with whom we can combine a group purchase, and are members of one or more clubs with whom we can combine even more. Thus, buying in quantity is much easier than you think. 73, Jim K9YC On Sun,4/3/2016 6:06 AM, James Rodenkirch wrote: I couldn't resist..K9YC says"The BEST way to buy ferrite parts is...buy in quantity from industrial distributors" Well, first off, I don't need quantity - I need one or two ferrite cores.so, I guess I'm "out of luck," eh? _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Preampm for 160 meter receive loop
James, Here is a link to a low cost preamp on ebay. I have purchased one and it works as advertised. Maybe this will do what you desire to accomplish. http://www.ebay.com/itm/J310-push-pull-HF-pre-amp-KIT-BUILT-TESTED-/151745349257 ~73 Don KD8NNU 2014 3905CC Top Gun :-) -.- -.. ---.. -. -. ..- -Original Message- From: James Rodenkirch Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2016 11:46 AM To: topband Subject: Topband: Preampm for 160 meter receive loop OK - did a little listening yesterday evening and this A.M. on 160 with my loop and found band noise way down, relative to my transmitting antenna (an Inverted U). So, I'd like to add a pre-amp at the base of the loop BUT when I google 160 meter preamp for sale (or 160 meter preamp kit) the only items I find are a DXE product and an ARR 1 module. Either is/are more than I care to spend (not 'cuz I am "cheap," but 'cuz it's a loop, not a Beveridge or a K9AY loop, and I don't expect this loop to be that competitive with more sophisticated receive antennas). Any ideas or places to vector me to? I am disabled and can't operate any kind of tool BUT do have a friend who'll build a kit for me so a kit wud work. I saw the ICE pre-amps and wish they were still around - looks like that would be an excel "first start" kind pre-amp to purchase. Off-line replies are totally ok - don't need any "nah, this unit is better than what 'he' just said" sort of replies - just some ideas...thank you, in advance, for you replies. 71.5/72 de Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Receive loop observations
Newark hasn't had a minimum order in years. 73, Mike www.w0btu.com On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 9:40 AM, Cecil Acuff wrote: > Better check Newarks minimum order policy..."the fine print"...I think > it's $20. > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: MA-160V
I just picked up a used one. Any tips? Internet comes up a little bit dry. Anyone have any first hand knowledge? My intention is to use it sometimes @ home and sometimes "afield" with only a few radials (possibly raised if possible) 73 de Mike VE9AA Mike, Coreen & Corey Keswick Ridge, NB _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Preampm for 160 meter receive loop
I too have bought this (actually two of em) and works great. (I use one modified for LW use 470khz) 73 Renée, k6fsb Goldtr8 (KD8NNU) wrote: James, Here is a link to a low cost preamp on ebay. I have purchased one and it works as advertised. Maybe this will do what you desire to accomplish. http://www.ebay.com/itm/J310-push-pull-HF-pre-amp-KIT-BUILT-TESTED-/151745349257 ~73 Don KD8NNU 2014 3905CC Top Gun :-) -.- -.. ---.. -. -. ..- -Original Message- From: James Rodenkirch Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2016 11:46 AM To: topband Subject: Topband: Preampm for 160 meter receive loop OK - did a little listening yesterday evening and this A.M. on 160 with my loop and found band noise way down, relative to my transmitting antenna (an Inverted U). So, I'd like to add a pre-amp at the base of the loop BUT when I google 160 meter preamp for sale (or 160 meter preamp kit) the only items I find are a DXE product and an ARR 1 module. Either is/are more than I care to spend (not 'cuz I am "cheap," but 'cuz it's a loop, not a Beveridge or a K9AY loop, and I don't expect this loop to be that competitive with more sophisticated receive antennas). Any ideas or places to vector me to? I am disabled and can't operate any kind of tool BUT do have a friend who'll build a kit for me so a kit wud work. I saw the ICE pre-amps and wish they were still around - looks like that would be an excel "first start" kind pre-amp to purchase. Off-line replies are totally ok - don't need any "nah, this unit is better than what 'he' just said" sort of replies - just some ideas...thank you, in advance, for you replies. 71.5/72 de Jim Rodenkirch K9JWV _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Preampm for 160 meter receive loop
I've made and used several W7IUV Preamps over the years and worked well. There should be schematics on line still but I do have them if anyone is interested. Regards, Jim/k2hn _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
