Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

[JC]

Mike

I understand that, I know several friends that enjoy JT modes, I used it a
lot on Meteor Scatter and few QSO's on EME, Actually I gave up on EME
because I like CW and really few JT modes boring, it is personal.

My point is, and what I stand for,  do not give up on noise!

I proved you can reduce the noise flor with horizontal phased loops. Not
only here but on 30+ places, and  in different countries as well.

You and my friends enjoy JT modes, I respect that and wish all the best . My
old brother by choice, PY1RO is very active today on HF just because JT
modes. 

It is a personal decision.

My choice was to fight noise, stay put here in my city lot, help others to
do the same, I am not special at all, a very poor CW operator. I don't
contest too. 

JT modes is not a solution for noise, it is just easy.

I have JT installed in my machine, I can tell you if the guy is -22db on the
vertical TX antenna,  the same signal is +1db on my HWF. I can hear hundreds
of station on any given night on 160m using my HWF on digital modes. Zone
23, 24, 26 and 28 are active on 160m, WSJT, hundreds of YB stations are
active on 80m, digital mode.

I just don't like JT modes. 

Regards
JC
N4IS




-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Walker
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2017 10:42 PM
To: JC 
Cc: Victor Goncharsky ; topBand List ;
Mark K3MSB 
Subject: Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

JC

Amateur radio is about communicating, regardless of the mode.

Chokes don't solve an RF noise floor issue if the RF noise is generated by
devices you don't own or control.

For my station, and I have space for it, everything is choked, and I mean
everything.  I bought cases of chokes.  Yes, they helped all I could
control.

The other thing is that the bulk of the 160M dx on a given night might just
be on a digital mode.  There have been nights I could only hear 1 or 2 CW
signals, and they were in North America.  Yet, on JT65 there might be 10 new
countries show up over the period of an hour or so.  It is actually pretty
impressive.

Regardless of the mode, they are still valid contacts.   No one said that
everyone had to do it.  It is about options, and there are many.

I am also suck at CW.  Yes, I have done it for 45 years or so.  I can do
it, but I don't enjoy it.I have have some CQ WPX CW contest paper to
prove it.  LOL

Amateur radio is many things to many people.  No one said you have to comply
or like or even do all or any.

I think that putting down phases of the hobby that others take enjoyment
from is really not productive.

many 73, Mike va3mw

On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 10:54 AM, JC  wrote:

> ..>>>
> I've worked 20 new countries on 160m this winter alone on bands that 
> are closed are so polluted with RF noise, that it would not be 
> possible with the human ear.
> <<<
>
> I kindly can't agree with that. Yes , noise is going up, but there are 
> so many things you can do to reduce the noise floor, chokes, small RX 
> antennas and filters.
>
> All of this requires some dedication and it is not easy. However far 
> from "not possible"
>
> My city lot is noisy as everybody else, I works 135 (CW) countries for 
> the CQ Marathon since Jan 1st 2017 on 160m. My total on the last 10 
> years is #
> 291 confirmed on 160m, 39 zones.
>
> My back yard is 100x150ft. not so small for a high performance station 
> on 160m.
>
> The digital mode is a choice, only a choice to avoid the hard work to 
> enjoy a DX on 160m.
>
> Digital mode  is boring as watch grass growing. But it is an option 
> where the PC try to do a connection with other PC using the antenna 
> you have, nothing wrong with that if you enjoy it.
>
> It is not a solution for noise. It is a computer calculation that 
> narrow the BW to few Hertz or less than one Hz.
>
> The decoding is another thing. I personally don't consider a QSO, just 
> a machine to machine connection.
>
> The human operator is an option, all communication could  and can be 
> done by software as well.
>
>
>  Again it is just a personal thing.
>
>
> Regards
>
> JC
> N4IS
>
>
>
>
_
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_
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Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

[Mike Waters]

Ok, what is the truth here? Is JT9 better than JT65 on 160m, or is it
inferior?

On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 5:50 PM, Brian D G3VGZ  wrote:

> ... I find the better ability for JT65 to decode co-channel signals with
> its two pass decoding makes up for any 2dB improvement in decoding JT9. I
> also find a single static crash can take out JT9 decodes, more so than JT65.
>

That certainly got my attention! Has anyone else experienced this? *And if
so, what filter were you using: the wide SSB filter or a narrower CW
filter?? *I'm inclined to think that JT9 is superior to JT65 on 160m.

*But I have an open mind.*
I'm cc'ing this to K1JT himself, the Top Band Digital 160m Yahoo Group, and
the Topband reflector.



* Please share your experiences.*

*TIA.*

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com


> On 5/13/2017 3:27 PM, Mike Waters wrote:
> Why not JT9? It has a 2 dB improvement in S/N ratio on 160, while using
> only 1/10 of the bandwidth.
> I cannot understand why JT9 is used so little on 160 thru 20. JT65 is a
> VHF mode.
> physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/wsjtx.html
> [snip]
>
> --
> Brian D
> G3VGZ
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
_
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Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

[Michael Walker]

JC

Amateur radio is about communicating, regardless of the mode.

Chokes don't solve an RF noise floor issue if the RF noise is generated by
devices you don't own or control.

For my station, and I have space for it, everything is choked, and I mean
everything.  I bought cases of chokes.  Yes, they helped all I could
control.

The other thing is that the bulk of the 160M dx on a given night might just
be on a digital mode.  There have been nights I could only hear 1 or 2 CW
signals, and they were in North America.  Yet, on JT65 there might be 10
new countries show up over the period of an hour or so.  It is actually
pretty impressive.

Regardless of the mode, they are still valid contacts.   No one said that
everyone had to do it.  It is about options, and there are many.

I am also suck at CW.  Yes, I have done it for 45 years or so.  I can do
it, but I don't enjoy it.I have have some CQ WPX CW contest paper to
prove it.  LOL

Amateur radio is many things to many people.  No one said you have to
comply or like or even do all or any.

I think that putting down phases of the hobby that others take enjoyment
from is really not productive.

many 73, Mike va3mw

On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 10:54 AM, JC  wrote:

> ..>>>
> I've worked 20 new countries on 160m this winter alone on bands that are
> closed are so polluted with RF noise, that it would not be possible with
> the human ear.
> <<<
>
> I kindly can't agree with that. Yes , noise is going up, but there are so
> many things you can do to reduce the noise floor, chokes, small RX antennas
> and filters.
>
> All of this requires some dedication and it is not easy. However far from
> "not possible"
>
> My city lot is noisy as everybody else, I works 135 (CW) countries for the
> CQ Marathon since Jan 1st 2017 on 160m. My total on the last 10 years is #
> 291 confirmed on 160m, 39 zones.
>
> My back yard is 100x150ft. not so small for a high performance station on
> 160m.
>
> The digital mode is a choice, only a choice to avoid the hard work to
> enjoy a DX on 160m.
>
> Digital mode  is boring as watch grass growing. But it is an option where
> the PC try to do a connection with other PC using the antenna you have,
> nothing wrong with that if you enjoy it.
>
> It is not a solution for noise. It is a computer calculation that narrow
> the BW to few Hertz or less than one Hz.
>
> The decoding is another thing. I personally don't consider a QSO, just a
> machine to machine connection.
>
> The human operator is an option, all communication could  and can be done
> by software as well.
>
>
>  Again it is just a personal thing.
>
>
> Regards
>
> JC
> N4IS
>
>
>
>
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

[JAYB1943]

Well, let’s face it – if two dishonest hams decide to agree that they had a 
QSO that never was and verify it on either LOTW or by QSL, it’s nobody’s 
business but their own, IMHO.  If getting some credit for something you 
never actually did makes u happy, who am I to spoil your happiness ? It’s a 
hobby, guys..have fun anyway you want to !!
73 jay NY2NY 
_
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Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

[Jorge Diez (CX6VM-CW5W)]

Wes

If you convince him to upload to LOTW, you will have the qso confirmed 

Some weeks ago, a JA station requested me to check the qsl I sent him, instead 
of 08:30 utc I filled the qsl with 20:30 utc

The JA card checker rejected the QSL. That's very good! 

I apologize for the mistake and send a new qsl card to him

But is nice to know that someone there have the sense to check that mistakes

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W 

Enviado desde mi iPhone

> El 14 may. 2017, a las 20:53, Wes Stewart  escribió:
> 
> I think that's nonsense.
> 
> That said, there a lot of ways to skin this cat:
> 
> Perhaps I can brib...sorry...convince SV2ASP/A to QSL me for an ATNO on 
> top-band at my local noon that will be a good one that ARRL will accept?
> 
> Either that or I can rent time on a super station on the east coast and work 
> him; or, as I know some "Honor" Roll members do, I can just have someone else 
> on the east coast work him using my call.
> 
> Or I can have an imaginary digital QSO 
> (http://www.sm2cew.com/Digital%20communications%20using%20minimal%20transfer.pdf)
>  and take credit for that.
> 
> Lastly, I can do it as I do, the old-fashioned way, as explained on my QRZ 
> page.
> 
> It all depends on what you can live with.
> 
> Wes  N7WS
> 
>> On 5/14/2017 3:15 PM, jayb1...@optonline.net wrote:
>> And MY 2 cents...the ONLY criteria for ANY ARRL (or other) awards is very
>> simple: If both stations AGREE they have made a QSO, then they DID have a
>> valid QSO...regardless how/when/mode/assist/etc is used.There is no
>> third-party judge required or invited...KIS..jay ny2ny
>> _
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>> 
> 
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
_
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Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

[Mike Waters]

I thought the OP was talking about casual non-contest JT65 exchanges in one
narrow section of 160.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

[Wes Stewart]

I think that's nonsense.

That said, there a lot of ways to skin this cat:

Perhaps I can brib...sorry...convince SV2ASP/A to QSL me for an ATNO on top-band 
at my local noon that will be a good one that ARRL will accept?


Either that or I can rent time on a super station on the east coast and work 
him; or, as I know some "Honor" Roll members do, I can just have someone else on 
the east coast work him using my call.


Or I can have an imaginary digital QSO 
(http://www.sm2cew.com/Digital%20communications%20using%20minimal%20transfer.pdf) 
and take credit for that.


Lastly, I can do it as I do, the old-fashioned way, as explained on my QRZ page.

It all depends on what you can live with.

Wes  N7WS

On 5/14/2017 3:15 PM, jayb1...@optonline.net wrote:

And MY 2 cents...the ONLY criteria for ANY ARRL (or other) awards is very
simple: If both stations AGREE they have made a QSO, then they DID have a
valid QSO...regardless how/when/mode/assist/etc is used.There is no
third-party judge required or invited...KIS..jay ny2ny
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband



_
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Re: Topband: CNN notch filter recommendations

[JC]

Kevin 

There is a well known 

DLW Associates AM Broadcast Band Brick-Wall High Pass Filters

http://dlwc.com/


The 9 pole filter can be tuned for one of the deep nulls attenuate the station 
you need by 70db or more, give DLW a call.

Regards
JC
N4IS

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Kevin KL7KY
Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2017 12:55 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: CNN notch filter recommendations

Hi all,Has anyone had "success" notching out a single AM bcb station that 
+50dB?I see a lot of bcb filters that are commercially made, but wanted some 
real world feedback from someone that has dealt with it.I'm looking for 
something that I can leave in-line between the rig and the amp - that will 
handle at least 200w.Any input would be appreciated.ThanksKevin KL7KY 


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7 edge, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone 
_ Topband Reflector Archives - 
http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
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Re: Topband: CNN notch filter recommendations

[Kevin KL7KY]

Frstly...sorry about the CNN ...dang auto correct got by me that time...i meant 
BCB..Thanks for all the input guys!Kevin KL7KY 


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7 edge, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
 Original message From: James Wolf  Date: 
5/14/17  10:25  (GMT-09:00) To: 'Kevin KL7KY' , 
topband@contesting.com Subject: RE: Topband: CNN notch filter recommendations 
Here you can see the measured response of the filter in the commercial K9AY
controller.

http://www.wolfrfsystems.com/Specs.html

Jim, KR9U
___

>On 5/14/2017 9:55 AM, Kevin KL7KY wrote:
> Hi all,Has anyone had "success" notching out a single AM bcb station 
> that +50dB?I see a lot of bcb filters that are commercially made, but 
> wanted some real world feedback from someone that has dealt with 
> it.I'm looking for something that I can leave in-line between the rig 
> and the amp - that will handle at least 200w.Any input would be 
> appreciated.ThanksKevin KL7KY
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7 edge, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone 
> _ Topband Reflector Archives - 
> http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

[JAYB1943]

And MY 2 cents...the ONLY criteria for ANY ARRL (or other) awards is very 
simple: If both stations AGREE they have made a QSO, then they DID have a 
valid QSO...regardless how/when/mode/assist/etc is used.There is no 
third-party judge required or invited...KIS..jay ny2ny 
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

[Nick Maslon - K1NZ]

Hi Len,

So, you would rather me set up stations in W1 and work EU, W4 and work the
Caribbean, W5 and work SA, and W6 and work Asia on SSB or CW instead of
letting me work digimodes from my QTH in W1? All those stations are in the
same DXCC entity and they all count for the same award.

73,
Nick K1NZ


On the Droid.

On May 14, 2017 13:07, "Lennart m"  wrote:

Yes - almost but:
You have to complete your QSO  on yourself
You are not obliged to use any PC or any other supports. If you do, then it
would not be a valid 100% QSO between two OPS.

That is my 10 USD worth

Len¨
SM7BIC

-Ursprungligt meddelande-
Från: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] För Nick Maslon - K1NZ
Skickat: den 14 maj 2017 17:17
Till: topband@contesting.com
Ämne: Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

Hi everyone,

Here's my stance on awards such as DXCC and achieving them with digimodes
such as JT65. Honestly, they're only worth the amount of importance you put
into them. They're essentially made up radio points anyway. If DXCC means
SSB and CW only, good for you. If you're having fun working working DXCC
with the JTmodes, good for you. If you only count entities worked from
stations you've built, good for you. If you operate from large stations that
aren't your own under your call, good for you. Honestly, that piece of paper
means something different to everyone. Isn't the whole point of this hobby
just to enjoy getting on the air, make new friends, and pray that the sun
doesn't obliterate the ionosphere?

Just my $.02.

73,
Nick K1NZ
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
_
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Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

[Brian D G3VGZ]

Tim Shoppa  wrote:

> Maybe JT65 is too young to have good statistics, but how many DXCC
> entities have ever been activated on JT65 on 160M?

57 out of my total of 84 entities on 160 have been worked using JT modes.
I've heard quite a few more.


> 
> Phone as an amateur mode had been around for what, half a century, before
> they introduced the CW-specific DXCC Certificate in the late 1970's.
> Before then it was just assumed that phone was so much harder.
> 


-- 
Brian D 
G3VGZ
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

[Brian D G3VGZ]

WSJT-X 1.7.0

Mike Waters  wrote:

> That's interesting. Thank you for sharing that with us.
> 
> What software are you using, Brian? Joe Taylor's, or some other?

> 
> I'm guessing you're only using the wide SSB filter. In any case, I'll have
> to try that and see, using CW and SSB filters.
> 
> 73, Mike www.w0btu.com
> 
> On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 5:50 PM, Brian D G3VGZ
>  > wrote:
> 
> >
> > I find the better ability for JT65 to decode co-channel signals with its
> > two pass decoding makes up for any 2dB improvement in decoding JT9. I
> > also find a single static crash can take out JT9 decodes, more so than
> > JT65.
> >
> > > > Why not JT9? It has a 2 dB improvement in S/N ratio on 160, while
> > > > using only 1/10 of the bandwidth.
> > > >
> > > > I cannot understand why JT9 is used so little on 160 thru 20. JT65
> > > > is a VHF mode.
> > > >
> > > > physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/wsjtx.html
> >
> _ Topband Reflector Archives -
> http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> 
> 


-- 
Brian D 
G3VGZ
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: CNN notch filter recommendations

[James Wolf]

Here you can see the measured response of the filter in the commercial K9AY
controller.

http://www.wolfrfsystems.com/Specs.html

Jim, KR9U
___

>On 5/14/2017 9:55 AM, Kevin KL7KY wrote:
> Hi all,Has anyone had "success" notching out a single AM bcb station 
> that +50dB?I see a lot of bcb filters that are commercially made, but 
> wanted some real world feedback from someone that has dealt with 
> it.I'm looking for something that I can leave in-line between the rig 
> and the amp - that will handle at least 200w.Any input would be 
> appreciated.ThanksKevin KL7KY
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7 edge, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone 
> _ Topband Reflector Archives - 
> http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
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Re: Topband: CNN notch filter recommendations

[Richard (Rick) Karlquist]

I've done a lot of filter design.  I am assuming that your requirement
is to remove a single station, and that you don't have any requirement
to pass the rest of the BCB band.  The question is: which is more
difficult:  a single frequency notch or a traditional high pass
filter that filters out the whole BCB.  To get 50 dB in a notch,
you will need to have multiple resonators in cascade.  You have to
watch the insertion loss since you are putting 100W through it.
So by the time you get done, it is not clear that the single
frequency notch is easier.

That's filter theory.  But in the real world, there are various
off the shelf high pass filters available, and even construction
articles if you want to build your own.  A 50 dB notch filter, OTOH,
will not be off the shelf or even have construction articles.
There might a software program somewhere to design it, but you
still need to know what you are doing.

A particular problem with notch filters is that many designs are
based on a notch within a bandpass.  IOW, you only need to
pass frequencies near the notch.  In your case, you need to
pass frequencies way above the notch.  Now you are even farther
off the beaten track.  This is probably only for the filter
enthusiast.

The commercially made filters have rejection that varies with
the frequency of the station.  You didn't say what the frequency
of the station is.  If it is fairly far down in the band, nearly
any filter than can handle the power should work.  If it is on
1690 (we have one of those here), you need the top of the line filter. 
Watch out of specsmanship games on the data sheets in that case.

Some filters may talk about rejection at 1500 kHz.

Rick N6RK

On 5/14/2017 9:55 AM, Kevin KL7KY wrote:

Hi all,Has anyone had "success" notching out a single AM bcb station that 
+50dB?I see a lot of bcb filters that are commercially made, but wanted some real world 
feedback from someone that has dealt with it.I'm looking for something that I can leave 
in-line between the rig and the amp - that will handle at least 200w.Any input would be 
appreciated.ThanksKevin KL7KY


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7 edge, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband



_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: Feeding a two wire Beverage at the center

[Herbert Schoenbohm]

have heard that a 450 ohm ladder Beverage can be fed in the center or even
off center.  This is something I would like to do but have never seen any
write up on the way it is done.  I presume it would require a reflection
transformer and ground on each end.  But the means of feed the wires at the
center or off center has be puzzling for me..  Anyone who has done this
with a two wire reversibleplease let me know how and if the principle
even works.

Herb, KV4FZ
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Bev-Flex 4 Beverage system

[Herbert Schoenbohm]

I have heard that a 450 ohm ladder Beverage can be fed in the center or
even off center.  This is something I would like to do but have never seen
any write up on the way it is done.  I presume ti would require a
reflection transformer and ground on each end.  But the means of feed the
wires at the center or off center has be puzzled.  Anyone who has done this
with a two wire reversibleplease lewt me know.

On 4/14/2017 9:58 AM, Alan Swinger wrote:

I checked out the JK Antenna web site and the system looks good and
sounds like it performs well. Have there been any side-by-side
comparisons w/ a standard 2 wire 450 ohm Beverage?
Tks - Alan K9MBQ

-Original Message-

From: Ned Mountain  
Sent: Apr 13, 2017 7:35 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: Bev-Flex 4 Beverage system

I have already received several e mails since my posting.  The data sheets
and specs are on the JK antenna website.  (jkantennas..com)



Here is a link to a video presentation I did some time back to one of the
local clubs regarding the system.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZiQXihUvIo

&feature=youtu.be



Ned

WC4X


Can you explain how do hook up a two wire ladder line Beverage with a
center feed?

Thanks, Herb, KV4FZ

Ned Mountain
ned.mount...@mindspring.com
770 823 4205 <(770)%20823-4205> (M)



_
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_
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_
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Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

[Lennart m]

Yes - almost but:
You have to complete your QSO  on yourself
You are not obliged to use any PC or any other supports. If you do, then it
would not be a valid 100% QSO between two OPS.

That is my 10 USD worth

Len¨
SM7BIC

-Ursprungligt meddelande-
Från: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] För Nick Maslon - K1NZ
Skickat: den 14 maj 2017 17:17
Till: topband@contesting.com
Ämne: Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

Hi everyone,

Here's my stance on awards such as DXCC and achieving them with digimodes
such as JT65. Honestly, they're only worth the amount of importance you put
into them. They're essentially made up radio points anyway. If DXCC means
SSB and CW only, good for you. If you're having fun working working DXCC
with the JTmodes, good for you. If you only count entities worked from
stations you've built, good for you. If you operate from large stations that
aren't your own under your call, good for you. Honestly, that piece of paper
means something different to everyone. Isn't the whole point of this hobby
just to enjoy getting on the air, make new friends, and pray that the sun
doesn't obliterate the ionosphere?

Just my $.02.

73,
Nick K1NZ
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: CNN notch filter recommendations

[Kevin KL7KY]

Hi all,Has anyone had "success" notching out a single AM bcb station that 
+50dB?I see a lot of bcb filters that are commercially made, but wanted some 
real world feedback from someone that has dealt with it.I'm looking for 
something that I can leave in-line between the rig and the amp - that will 
handle at least 200w.Any input would be appreciated.ThanksKevin KL7KY 


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S7 edge, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
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Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

[Nick Maslon - K1NZ]

Hi everyone,

Here's my stance on awards such as DXCC and achieving them with digimodes
such as JT65. Honestly, they're only worth the amount of importance you put
into them. They're essentially made up radio points anyway. If DXCC means
SSB and CW only, good for you. If you're having fun working working DXCC
with the JTmodes, good for you. If you only count entities worked from
stations you've built, good for you. If you operate from large stations
that aren't your own under your call, good for you. Honestly, that piece of
paper means something different to everyone. Isn't the whole point of this
hobby just to enjoy getting on the air, make new friends, and pray that the
sun doesn't obliterate the ionosphere?

Just my $.02.

73,
Nick K1NZ
_
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Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

[Lennart m]

Well stated JC!!
I fully agree.
The local QRM is getting worse each year with all those LED:s and other ,
mostly tiny things radiating several hundreds meters. Only two ways to go:1
Identify the QRM source and get rid of it, 2: Try to improve your RX
antennas.
To me, a 160 QSO is between 2 OPS sitting in front of their radios.
Period

Len
SM7BIC

-Ursprungligt meddelande-
Från: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] För JC
Skickat: den 14 maj 2017 16:54
Till: 'Mike va3mw' ; 'Mark K3MSB'

Kopia: 'Victor Goncharsky' ; 'topBand List'

Ämne: Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

..>>>
I've worked 20 new countries on 160m this winter alone on bands that are
closed are so polluted with RF noise, that it would not be possible with the
human ear. 
<<<

I kindly can't agree with that. Yes , noise is going up, but there are so
many things you can do to reduce the noise floor, chokes, small RX antennas
and filters.

All of this requires some dedication and it is not easy. However far from
"not possible"

My city lot is noisy as everybody else, I works 135 (CW) countries for the
CQ Marathon since Jan 1st 2017 on 160m. My total on the last 10 years is #
291 confirmed on 160m, 39 zones.

My back yard is 100x150ft. not so small for a high performance station on
160m.

The digital mode is a choice, only a choice to avoid the hard work to enjoy
a DX on 160m. 

Digital mode  is boring as watch grass growing. But it is an option where
the PC try to do a connection with other PC using the antenna you have,
nothing wrong with that if you enjoy it.

It is not a solution for noise. It is a computer calculation that narrow the
BW to few Hertz or less than one Hz. 

The decoding is another thing. I personally don't consider a QSO, just a
machine to machine connection. 

The human operator is an option, all communication could  and can be done by
software as well. 


 Again it is just a personal thing.


Regards

JC
N4IS



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Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

[JC]

..>>>
I've worked 20 new countries on 160m this winter alone on bands that are closed 
are so polluted with RF noise, that it would not be possible with the human 
ear. 
<<<

I kindly can't agree with that. Yes , noise is going up, but there are so many 
things you can do to reduce the noise floor, chokes, small RX antennas and 
filters.

All of this requires some dedication and it is not easy. However far from "not 
possible"

My city lot is noisy as everybody else, I works 135 (CW) countries for the CQ 
Marathon since Jan 1st 2017 on 160m. My total on the last 10 years is # 291 
confirmed on 160m, 39 zones.

My back yard is 100x150ft. not so small for a high performance station on 160m.

The digital mode is a choice, only a choice to avoid the hard work to enjoy a 
DX on 160m. 

Digital mode  is boring as watch grass growing. But it is an option where the 
PC try to do a connection with other PC using the antenna you have, nothing 
wrong with that if you enjoy it.

It is not a solution for noise. It is a computer calculation that narrow the BW 
to few Hertz or less than one Hz. 

The decoding is another thing. I personally don't consider a QSO, just a 
machine to machine connection. 

The human operator is an option, all communication could  and can be done by 
software as well. 


 Again it is just a personal thing.


Regards

JC
N4IS



_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

[Jorge Diez - CX6VM]

Hello

of course we have choices and we can all do it any which way we choose.

My question was about the feeling of doing a CW and a JT65 QSo on topband.
I worked a new one on JT65 and really didn´t feel the excitement working it
as I did with any new one on CW

Maybe for digital lovers is great. They feel the same working RTTY or JT65?

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W

2017-05-14 11:03 GMT-03:00 Tim Shoppa :

> Maybe JT65 is too young to have good statistics, but how many DXCC entities
> have ever been activated on JT65 on 160M?
>
> Phone as an amateur mode had been around for what, half a century, before
> they introduced the CW-specific DXCC Certificate in the late 1970's. Before
> then it was just assumed that phone was so much harder.
>
> Tim N3QE
>
> On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 3:03 PM, James Denneny <57jndenn...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> > I am hoping more DX stations will take advantage of the JT65 mode on 1838
> > next season.  I have been using it on 20M recently and am amazed at its
> > weak
> > signal performance.
> >
> >
> >
> > This mode should enhance the capture of DX entities on TB particularly
> with
> > propagation decline. It's main drawback is the time involved with
> exchanges
> > due to decoding but, the enhanced performance makes up for that.
> >
> >
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > K7EG
> >
> > _
> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>



-- 
73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W
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Topband: Topband and JT65

[John Randall via Topband]

Perhaps they days of contesting and dxcc awards among others  are now over, 
what with the rise of the online sdr receivers and software. The ability to 
cheat has grown in leaps and bounds.
73John

Digitally signed mail - John  M0ELS

“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak 
it.”
George Orwell
_
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Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

[Tim Shoppa]

Maybe JT65 is too young to have good statistics, but how many DXCC entities
have ever been activated on JT65 on 160M?

Phone as an amateur mode had been around for what, half a century, before
they introduced the CW-specific DXCC Certificate in the late 1970's. Before
then it was just assumed that phone was so much harder.

Tim N3QE

On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 3:03 PM, James Denneny <57jndenn...@comcast.net>
wrote:

> I am hoping more DX stations will take advantage of the JT65 mode on 1838
> next season.  I have been using it on 20M recently and am amazed at its
> weak
> signal performance.
>
>
>
> This mode should enhance the capture of DX entities on TB particularly with
> propagation decline. It's main drawback is the time involved with exchanges
> due to decoding but, the enhanced performance makes up for that.
>
>
>
> Jim
>
> K7EG
>
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
_
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Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

[Joel Harrison]

Currently available DXCC awards are:
CW only DXCC
SSB only DXCC
Digital only DXCC

Then there is the "Mixed" DXCC award you can acquire that includes all modes.

So the segregation already exists if someone wants to take advantage of them.

A polite request to the reflector folks (unrelated to this specific post
from Mark) PLEASE identify yourself AND your CALLSIGN at the end of your
thread. Some folks just type their message and who they are in amateur
radio circles is not identified in their email address. Its a personal
thing. I just like to know who folks are. Thanks.

73 Joel W5ZN



> Well said Victor.
>
> I'm going to offend with this email no matter how nice I try to make it,
> but I am trying to not be inflammatory. Here goes
>
> A human ear can not compete with a computer that extracts signals below
> the
> noise level.
>
> Being a software engineer my friends are somewhat amazed I have no
> interest
> in RTTY or the JT modes. A few years ago they got me to do some RTTY
> contests. Talk about boring. You set the computer up, spin the VFO to
> align
> vertical cursor and push the correct buttons. Ditto with PSK31 only using
> a
> waterfall display. Download the software, spin the VFO, and push the
> buttons. As I told my friend “Even a caveman can do this”.
>
> The JT modes certainly have their place as an advancement in
> communications
> technology and capability. But from a competition perspective, machine and
> human detected modes need to be strictly segregated.
>
> My hat's off to those that get DXCC on 160 via CW and SSB. Sorry, but the
> hat stays on for using digital to get “the last few”. Not crying over
> spilt
> milk here; I have my TB DXCC and none of it is the JT modes.
>
> The ARRL needs to address this, but I doubt they're going to. We've gotten
> to the point where single band awards need to be split between human and
> machine detected modes.
>
> As posters in other threads have noted, the JT modes on TB will enable
> those with limited real estate to work 160M DX easily. This is both a
> blessing and a curse (as the saying goes). Yes, they may be able to use
> the
> JT modes to “easily” work DX on 160, but compare them to the guys in the
> same situation that work TB DX on CW / SSB and take years to do it.
>
> 73 Mark K3MSB
>
> On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 4:39 AM, Victor Goncharsky via Topband <
> topband@contesting.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Wrong.
>> Both in SSB and AM cases the operator's skills and abilities are
>> involved.
>> Even more of those are needed on CW.
>> On those JT modes an operator is just a computer accessory.
>>
>>
>> >Воскресенье, 14 мая 2017, 5:41 +03:00 от Mike va3mw <
>> va...@portcredit.net >:
>> >
>> >JT9 vs JT65 over CW
>> >
>> >The same conversation happened when SSB started to gain strength over
>> AM.
>> >
>> >73
>> >
>> >Mike va3mw
>> >
>>
>> --
>> 73, Victor Goncharsky US5WE/K1WE (UW5W in VHF contests, ex UB5WE), P.E.
>> UARL Technical and VHF Committies
>> DXCC Honor Roll #1 (Mixed, Phone), 9BDXCC, 8BWAS
>> DXCC card checker (160 meters).
>> _
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


www.w5zn.org

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Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

[Brian Pease]

True enough, but time marches on.  This is similar to the discussion 
about whether Columbus or Captain Cook would have used GPS if it had 
been available, or instead navigated without it just for the challenge.  
I have, in fact "navigated" once across the Atlantic using a sextant, 
but I made use of time signals and a programmable pocket calculator.  I 
compared results to Satnav, the 1-satellite doppler predecessor to GPS.  
I guess this was the equivalent of using CW vs JT.


On 5/14/2017 8:25 AM, Mark K3MSB wrote:

Well said Victor.

I'm going to offend with this email no matter how nice I try to make it,
but I am trying to not be inflammatory. Here goes

A human ear can not compete with a computer that extracts signals below the
noise level.

Being a software engineer my friends are somewhat amazed I have no interest
in RTTY or the JT modes. A few years ago they got me to do some RTTY
contests. Talk about boring. You set the computer up, spin the VFO to align
vertical cursor and push the correct buttons. Ditto with PSK31 only using a
waterfall display. Download the software, spin the VFO, and push the
buttons. As I told my friend “Even a caveman can do this”.

The JT modes certainly have their place as an advancement in communications
technology and capability. But from a competition perspective, machine and
human detected modes need to be strictly segregated.

My hat's off to those that get DXCC on 160 via CW and SSB. Sorry, but the
hat stays on for using digital to get “the last few”. Not crying over spilt
milk here; I have my TB DXCC and none of it is the JT modes.

The ARRL needs to address this, but I doubt they're going to. We've gotten
to the point where single band awards need to be split between human and
machine detected modes.

As posters in other threads have noted, the JT modes on TB will enable
those with limited real estate to work 160M DX easily. This is both a
blessing and a curse (as the saying goes). Yes, they may be able to use the
JT modes to “easily” work DX on 160, but compare them to the guys in the
same situation that work TB DX on CW / SSB and take years to do it.

73 Mark K3MSB

On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 4:39 AM, Victor Goncharsky via Topband <
topband@contesting.com> wrote:


Wrong.
Both in SSB and AM cases the operator's skills and abilities are involved.
Even more of those are needed on CW.
On those JT modes an operator is just a computer accessory.



Воскресенье, 14 мая 2017, 5:41 +03:00 от Mike va3mw <

va...@portcredit.net >:

JT9 vs JT65 over CW

The same conversation happened when SSB started to gain strength over AM.

73

Mike va3mw


--
73, Victor Goncharsky US5WE/K1WE (UW5W in VHF contests, ex UB5WE), P.E.
UARL Technical and VHF Committies
DXCC Honor Roll #1 (Mixed, Phone), 9BDXCC, 8BWAS
DXCC card checker (160 meters).
_
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_
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_
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Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

[Mike va3mw]

Yes, and while that works for you, not everyone sees it that way. 

I've worked 20 new countries on 160m this winter alone on bands that are closed 
are so polluted with RF noise, that it would not be possible with the human 
ear. 

It also allows those that are space limited to get on and be rewarded with 
making a contact with a limited station. 

Regardless, we have choices and we can all do it any which way we choose. If 
you don't like it, there is no requirement to participate. That is the beauty 
of the hobby!

Many 73, Mike va3mw

> On May 14, 2017, at 8:25 AM, Mark K3MSB  wrote:
> 
> Well said Victor.
> 
> I'm going to offend with this email no matter how nice I try to make it,
> but I am trying to not be inflammatory. Here goes
> 
> A human ear can not compete with a computer that extracts signals below the
> noise level.
> 
> Being a software engineer my friends are somewhat amazed I have no interest
> in RTTY or the JT modes. A few years ago they got me to do some RTTY
> contests. Talk about boring. You set the computer up, spin the VFO to align
> vertical cursor and push the correct buttons. Ditto with PSK31 only using a
> waterfall display. Download the software, spin the VFO, and push the
> buttons. As I told my friend “Even a caveman can do this”.
> 
> The JT modes certainly have their place as an advancement in communications
> technology and capability. But from a competition perspective, machine and
> human detected modes need to be strictly segregated.
> 
> My hat's off to those that get DXCC on 160 via CW and SSB. Sorry, but the
> hat stays on for using digital to get “the last few”. Not crying over spilt
> milk here; I have my TB DXCC and none of it is the JT modes.
> 
> The ARRL needs to address this, but I doubt they're going to. We've gotten
> to the point where single band awards need to be split between human and
> machine detected modes.
> 
> As posters in other threads have noted, the JT modes on TB will enable
> those with limited real estate to work 160M DX easily. This is both a
> blessing and a curse (as the saying goes). Yes, they may be able to use the
> JT modes to “easily” work DX on 160, but compare them to the guys in the
> same situation that work TB DX on CW / SSB and take years to do it.
> 
> 73 Mark K3MSB
> 
> On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 4:39 AM, Victor Goncharsky via Topband <
> topband@contesting.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Wrong.
>> Both in SSB and AM cases the operator's skills and abilities are involved.
>> Even more of those are needed on CW.
>> On those JT modes an operator is just a computer accessory.
>> 
>> 
>>> Воскресенье, 14 мая 2017, 5:41 +03:00 от Mike va3mw <
>> va...@portcredit.net >:
>>> 
>>> JT9 vs JT65 over CW
>>> 
>>> The same conversation happened when SSB started to gain strength over AM.
>>> 
>>> 73
>>> 
>>> Mike va3mw
>>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 73, Victor Goncharsky US5WE/K1WE (UW5W in VHF contests, ex UB5WE), P.E.
>> UARL Technical and VHF Committies
>> DXCC Honor Roll #1 (Mixed, Phone), 9BDXCC, 8BWAS
>> DXCC card checker (160 meters).
>> _
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>> 
> _
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_
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Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

[Mark K3MSB]

Well said Victor.

I'm going to offend with this email no matter how nice I try to make it,
but I am trying to not be inflammatory. Here goes

A human ear can not compete with a computer that extracts signals below the
noise level.

Being a software engineer my friends are somewhat amazed I have no interest
in RTTY or the JT modes. A few years ago they got me to do some RTTY
contests. Talk about boring. You set the computer up, spin the VFO to align
vertical cursor and push the correct buttons. Ditto with PSK31 only using a
waterfall display. Download the software, spin the VFO, and push the
buttons. As I told my friend “Even a caveman can do this”.

The JT modes certainly have their place as an advancement in communications
technology and capability. But from a competition perspective, machine and
human detected modes need to be strictly segregated.

My hat's off to those that get DXCC on 160 via CW and SSB. Sorry, but the
hat stays on for using digital to get “the last few”. Not crying over spilt
milk here; I have my TB DXCC and none of it is the JT modes.

The ARRL needs to address this, but I doubt they're going to. We've gotten
to the point where single band awards need to be split between human and
machine detected modes.

As posters in other threads have noted, the JT modes on TB will enable
those with limited real estate to work 160M DX easily. This is both a
blessing and a curse (as the saying goes). Yes, they may be able to use the
JT modes to “easily” work DX on 160, but compare them to the guys in the
same situation that work TB DX on CW / SSB and take years to do it.

73 Mark K3MSB

On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 4:39 AM, Victor Goncharsky via Topband <
topband@contesting.com> wrote:

>
> Wrong.
> Both in SSB and AM cases the operator's skills and abilities are involved.
> Even more of those are needed on CW.
> On those JT modes an operator is just a computer accessory.
>
>
> >Воскресенье, 14 мая 2017, 5:41 +03:00 от Mike va3mw <
> va...@portcredit.net >:
> >
> >JT9 vs JT65 over CW
> >
> >The same conversation happened when SSB started to gain strength over AM.
> >
> >73
> >
> >Mike va3mw
> >
>
> --
> 73, Victor Goncharsky US5WE/K1WE (UW5W in VHF contests, ex UB5WE), P.E.
> UARL Technical and VHF Committies
> DXCC Honor Roll #1 (Mixed, Phone), 9BDXCC, 8BWAS
> DXCC card checker (160 meters).
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
_
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Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

[Victor Goncharsky via Topband]

Wrong.
Both in SSB and AM cases the operator's skills and abilities are involved.
Even more of those are needed on CW.
On those JT modes an operator is just a computer accessory.


>Воскресенье, 14 мая 2017, 5:41 +03:00 от Mike va3mw < va...@portcredit.net >:
>
>JT9 vs JT65 over CW
>
>The same conversation happened when SSB started to gain strength over AM. 
>
>73
>
>Mike va3mw
>

-- 
73, Victor Goncharsky US5WE/K1WE (UW5W in VHF contests, ex UB5WE), P.E.
UARL Technical and VHF Committies
DXCC Honor Roll #1 (Mixed, Phone), 9BDXCC, 8BWAS
DXCC card checker (160 meters).
_
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