Re: Topband: FT8 on 160m

[Victor Goncharsky via Topband]

http://www.iaru-r1.org/index.php/downloads/func-startdown/718/  

IARU Region 1 160m Band plan:
1810 - 1838 200 CW,1836 kHz – QRP Centre of Activity
1838 - 1840 500 Narrow band modes
1840 - 1843 2700 All modes – digimodes, (*)
1843 - 2000 2700 All modes, (*)

There's no exclusive frequency for FT8 or any other K1JT mode.
Therefore using CW on any frequency is absolutely legal.

-- 
73, Victor Goncharsky US5WE/K1WE (UW5W in VHF contests, ex UB5WE), P.E.
UARL Technical and VHF Committies
DXCC Honor Roll #1 (Mixed, Phone), 9BDXCC, 8BWAS
DXCC card checker (160 meters).
_
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Re: Topband: CQ WW CW 160m observations

[MR TREVOR DUNNE]

Sorry Ray I guess my RX loop just didn't hear you, I will put up something 
aimed towards NA for CQ160

73
Trevor
EI2GLB
- Original Message -
From: rayn6vr 
To: MR TREVOR DUNNE , Ian Fugler 
Cc: Topband@contesting.com
Sent: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 21:58:20 - (GMT)
Subject: Re: Topband: CQ WW CW 160m observations

Trevor,I called u for almost 20 minutes  my Saturday evening just before ur SR. 
U peaked 459 at times but u never hear me or some of the other Ws 
calling.Hoping for better condx.Ray, N6VR Near Prescott, AZ



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message From: MR TREVOR DUNNE  
Date: 11/27/17  11:38 AM  (GMT-07:00) To: Ian Fugler  Cc: 
Topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: CQ WW CW 160m observations 
Thanks for the report Ian you did very well, me not being able to run is a big 
reason why I missed lots I really need to improve my CW,

73
Trevor
EI2GLB
- Original Message -
From: Ian Fugler 
To: g...@ka1j.com, Topband@contesting.com
Sent: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 14:55:29 - (GMT)
Subject: Re: Topband: CQ WW CW 160m observations

Trevor

I worked 123 US stations on topband over the weekend, including Gary KA1J
(thanks!) and a couple in Zone 3.  However, I think conditions were not
great and it seemed on several occasions that the US stations were hearing
EU better than we could hear them.  Some of the RBN reports from north
America on my signal were never matched by any of the US or VE people that
called me.  In fact, I think that all of my north American contacts were
when I was running.  Every time I clicked on a spot for a W or VE station, I
could not hear them.  I also struggled to hear (let alone work) much beyond
zone 18 to the east.

So, I think condx were down and the general band noise in EU was high.

73,

Ian G4IIY





-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Smith
Sent: 27 November 2017 14:39
To: Topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: CQ WW CW 160m observations

Hi Trevor,

I'm in Connecticut. I didn't compete much, I was too busy otherwise this
weekend. I ran full power to give out some Q's on 160. 

I heard many more EU than I could get to hear me. Some stations I called
maybe 20 times and they either didn't reply to me or went to another call.
Odd, I usually make nearly all the EU contacts I hear in a contest. 

73,

Gary
KA1J

> Hi All
> 
> First time to give 160 a good go during CQ WW and I was surprised how 
> few NA stations I heard,
> 
> I feel I was active at the right time 03-08utc but apart from VO1HP 
> K3LR and W3LPL I don't think I worked a half a dozen more, worked some 
> Caribbean stations as well I don't have a contest winning setup by any 
> means but I was expecting a lot more from NA, due to work I'm going to 
> miss the ARRL 160 contest next weekend which is a pity as it would 
> give me a better chance to see how well I can hear NA, Just wondering 
> how did guys over this side find NA prop and how did the NA guys find 
> prop to EU??
> 
> Thanks
> Trevor
> EI2GLB
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> 



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Topband: Fwd: Announcing Edition #22- The Stew Perry TopBand DX Challenge

[Lew Sayre]

Greetings Nocturnal Raucous Radio Frequency Flingers,
  The Boring Amateur Radio Club urges you to set aside Dec. 30/31 for a
pleasant
get together with several hundred of your best 160M friends during The Stew
Perry
TopBand Challenge. So you won't embarrass yourself, go now and read the
rules
which live at:http://www.kkn.net/stew/  That wasn't so
hard, was it?
 Tradition allows auspicious Radio Giants to conjure up categories for
the participants
to compete for, culminating in a highly sought after plaque. Plaques must
be in good taste
to be listed.  Listed below are the Stalwarts who have paid $65 to sponsor
a plaque
for this year's competition. You can join this group if you wish. All it
takes is an email to me.


KL7RA Top # QSOs, S/O
EI2CN  W/K/N/VE/XE station with most Qs with EI/British Isles
W2GD Team- Top # Qs, NA/SA by a EU station
N9TF Top # Grid Squares, QRP,S/O,NA with non-resonant antenna
   < 40' above the ground
WQ4RP  Top Score Multi-Op, QRP, World

K2AV  "Master of the Small Lot" Top score from property
containing all
antennas < 1/3 acre or 1,350 Meters Sq, or 14,520
feet sq.
N9TF  Top Score US/SO/LP, multiband vertical-no trap/load or
resonator-
tuner at Rig only
W9XR  "W3GH Memorial"  Top Score FN Grid Block
VK6VZ Top Score-Northern Hemisphere Station working Southern
 Hemisphere Stations- Winner receives Flying
Doctors of
 VK baseball hat.

K7FL   Top Score 100% Search & Pounce
K2PO   Top Score, S/O, Low Power, Zone 3

KH6LC VK-ZL Challenge- Top Score, S/O, VK-ZL
KR2Q   Golden Log Plaque- Most QSOs without a bust
Dr. Beldar L1AR   Top Score, S/O, Using Temporary Antenna erected on or
 after Dec. 3, 2017- because as we all know- Some
temporary
 antennas will outlive their SK owners!


 All of the 2016 plaques have been sent out to their winners, except
for 2 plaques, due to
technical catastrophes of the plaque making process. Patience...as this
will be resolved.
Also if anyone even has an email address for R9HAG, please let me know of
it. Maybe he
is a virtual station as I can find no evidence of his physical address or
existence other than
submitted logs and QSOs here and there. . He has a valuable plaque awaiting
him.
 Please expeditiously execute your December chores early so you'll have
a better chance
for quality radio time in the Stew Perry. You phone Ops also have time to
resurrect your CW
skills before the starting Stew gong. A bonus of operating CW is you can
usually eat while
operating. You just can't chew or swallow while receiving if you value
accuracy.
 The ARRL is sponsoring a nice warm up for The Stew Perry this weekend
in its 160M CW
contest. Try to participate  in that competition also. It has a different
flavor and will help that small
club in its endeavors.
 There will be more missives from The Boring Amateur Radio Club as the
numbers of plaques
and 160M fervors increase.
73 and I remain,
   Lew w7ew   The Boring Amateur Radio Club Committee on Hyperbole
w...@arrl.net
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Re: Topband: CQ WW CW 160m observations

[VK3HJ]

East Coast of Australia was smashed by thunderstorms all weekend, and I 
disconnected my antennas.


My usual experience of Top Band on contest weekends, is that it just becomes 
very difficult to work any DX.


Luke VK3HJ 


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Re: Topband: FT8 on 160m

[Grant Saviers]

My WSTJ waterfall shows about 50Hz bandwidth for ft8 signals.  In "band 
plan" theory the ft8 segment is 1840 to 1842.5.   However, many rigs 
won't pass audio much below 300Hz and may not above 2.5KHz.  I run "wide 
open" DSP on my Pro3 so see to 3Khz.  Above 2.6Khz there are few ft8 
signals to 1843KHz but some other very slow even weaker signal modes per 
the band plan.  An ft8 signal only needs that 50Hz but the decoder shows 
all transmissions better than the limiting S/N within the 0 to 3Khz range.


In CQWW I heard several CW ops at the low end of the ft8 plan segment, 
in 0 to 600 Hz.  I could decode ft8 fine thru them which surprised me a 
bit, the cw speeds ranged from teens to 30+ wpm.  Of course "reserved" 
is not true, but there is a band plan and it seemed to be generally 
observed by the contest ops.


While my dial shows 1840KHz, with AFSK USB the "carrier" really isn't there.

At least that is how I think it works !!

Grant KZ1W

On 11/27/2017 12:43 PM, Roger Parsons via Topband wrote:

As we all know, CQWW produces huge activity on all HF bands. This year I was 
hearing stations up to well above 1850kHz. I have found that trying to run 
Europe is often more productive in the 1840-1850 segment, presumably because it 
is less crowded than lower in frequency.


Late in the contest I started to CQ on about 1842kHz, and after a while, and several 
QSOs, was told (on CW): "Please QSY. 1840 is reserved for FT8. Good luck in the 
contest." Ignoring the fact that nobody has a reserved frequency on any band, I 
thought OK, don't want to upset anybody, and moved to 1842.9kHz. Shortly, the same 
message arrived.

My (probably incorrect) understanding is that FT8 stations are using USB with a 
carrier frequency of 1840kHz. So a CW station on 1842.9 should be out of their 
passband. I did listen carefully and could not hear any FT8 transmissions above 
1842.2. (I have multiple receive antennas in a very quiet location.)

I believe that FT8 transmissions in principle use a microscopic bandwidth, but 
it appears they actually need a wide clear channel.

Yes? No?

73 Roger
VE3ZI
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Re: Topband: CQ WW CW 160m observations

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

 Very poor from Colorado.  80 and 40 were not what I would call great 
either.  I did snag 9m6 for a new on on 80 well after my SR on Sunday.  
I woke up early and thought I would have great fun on the lowbands.  I 
mostly got cqed in my face by BY's on 40 and the UP0L and the HS 
stations.   Next to nothing on 80 or 160 at SR.



On 11/27/2017 1:23 PM, Roger Parsons via Topband wrote:

Quite surprised at the negative comments on 160m conditions this last weekend, 
as I found them excellent to Europe, particularly on Sunday morning. I worked 
over 200 which is a lot more than I have ever managed before. Really long haul 
conditions were however non-existent - P3 was the only Asia heard (but not 
worked).

73 Roger
VE3ZI
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Re: Topband: FT8 on 160m

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

The normal bandwidth for FT8 is 2.5 to 2.8 kc.  at 1.842.9 you should 
have been outside the FT8 band.  Hardly anyone operates above 2.5 it 
seems anyway.  I think you  were essentially being trolled.  I suppose 
you could have been pretty wide for a local or close in station wiping 
out a fair portion of the upper end of the band.


I am usually on 160 FT8 every night but I took the weekend off for the 
contest from FT8.


Too bad the guy did not identify.  I noticed a few freq cops on the 
cluster announcements where some FT8 users think they deserve clear 
space which we know does not exist is a shared band that we have.


W0MU


On 11/27/2017 2:17 PM, Tim Shoppa wrote:

As a practical matter there are several 2 kHZ segments of each band that are 
now devoted to 24x7 JT65, FT8, and other digital modes. Weak signal CW work - 
eg working rare mults or even just weak guys from common mults - in those 
segments just isn’t gonna happen.

Substantial parts of 80M and 40M have been pretty bad for several years now 
with SAILNET and other automatic modes.

Tim N3QE


On Nov 27, 2017, at 3:43 PM, Roger Parsons via Topband  
wrote:

As we all know, CQWW produces huge activity on all HF bands. This year I was 
hearing stations up to well above 1850kHz. I have found that trying to run 
Europe is often more productive in the 1840-1850 segment, presumably because it 
is less crowded than lower in frequency.


Late in the contest I started to CQ on about 1842kHz, and after a while, and several 
QSOs, was told (on CW): "Please QSY. 1840 is reserved for FT8. Good luck in the 
contest." Ignoring the fact that nobody has a reserved frequency on any band, I 
thought OK, don't want to upset anybody, and moved to 1842.9kHz. Shortly, the same 
message arrived.

My (probably incorrect) understanding is that FT8 stations are using USB with a 
carrier frequency of 1840kHz. So a CW station on 1842.9 should be out of their 
passband. I did listen carefully and could not hear any FT8 transmissions above 
1842.2. (I have multiple receive antennas in a very quiet location.)

I believe that FT8 transmissions in principle use a microscopic bandwidth, but 
it appears they actually need a wide clear channel.

Yes? No?

73 Roger
VE3ZI
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Re: Topband: Beverage construction

[Mike Waters]

Exactly! Doing that creates impedance mismatches at each end.
Now, if your aim is to trip people or animals, slope it. ;-)

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Nov 27, 2017 4:55 PM, "Donald Chester"  wrote:


>  did you slope the last 50' on each end?

Sloping the ends of a beverage serves no useful purpose.  That's an old
wives' tale ...
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Re: Topband: Beverage construction

[Donald Chester]

Thu Nov 23 13:42:27 EST 2017 Dave k4em at bellsouth.net wrote:
>  did you slope the last 50' on each end?

Sloping the ends of a beverage serves no useful purpose.  That's an old wives' 
tale (or maybe I should say old Hammy Hambone's tale) started by W1WCR, I 
believe.  Whether the wire is horizontal all the way to eacd end  with a 
vertical lead straight down to the ground point, or 50' of sloping the wire at 
each end, you have exactly the same vertical and horizontal component of wire.  
Precisely why a Pennant antenna and a Flag antenna of the same total height and 
length perform approximately the same.  The only advantage to the sloping wire 
is that the sloping antenna itself acts as a guy wire for the end poles, 
eliminating the need to terminate each end of the antenna with a separate guy 
wire.  But the long gradual slope makes the antenna wire more hazardous to 
surface traffic than a short guy wire at each pole.

Don k4kyv
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Re: Topband: CQ WW CW 160m observations

[rayn6vr]

Trevor,I called u for almost 20 minutes  my Saturday evening just before ur SR. 
U peaked 459 at times but u never hear me or some of the other Ws 
calling.Hoping for better condx.Ray, N6VR Near Prescott, AZ



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message From: MR TREVOR DUNNE  
Date: 11/27/17  11:38 AM  (GMT-07:00) To: Ian Fugler  Cc: 
Topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: CQ WW CW 160m observations 
Thanks for the report Ian you did very well, me not being able to run is a big 
reason why I missed lots I really need to improve my CW,

73
Trevor
EI2GLB
- Original Message -
From: Ian Fugler 
To: g...@ka1j.com, Topband@contesting.com
Sent: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 14:55:29 - (GMT)
Subject: Re: Topband: CQ WW CW 160m observations

Trevor

I worked 123 US stations on topband over the weekend, including Gary KA1J
(thanks!) and a couple in Zone 3.  However, I think conditions were not
great and it seemed on several occasions that the US stations were hearing
EU better than we could hear them.  Some of the RBN reports from north
America on my signal were never matched by any of the US or VE people that
called me.  In fact, I think that all of my north American contacts were
when I was running.  Every time I clicked on a spot for a W or VE station, I
could not hear them.  I also struggled to hear (let alone work) much beyond
zone 18 to the east.

So, I think condx were down and the general band noise in EU was high.

73,

Ian G4IIY





-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Smith
Sent: 27 November 2017 14:39
To: Topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: CQ WW CW 160m observations

Hi Trevor,

I'm in Connecticut. I didn't compete much, I was too busy otherwise this
weekend. I ran full power to give out some Q's on 160. 

I heard many more EU than I could get to hear me. Some stations I called
maybe 20 times and they either didn't reply to me or went to another call.
Odd, I usually make nearly all the EU contacts I hear in a contest. 

73,

Gary
KA1J

> Hi All
> 
> First time to give 160 a good go during CQ WW and I was surprised how 
> few NA stations I heard,
> 
> I feel I was active at the right time 03-08utc but apart from VO1HP 
> K3LR and W3LPL I don't think I worked a half a dozen more, worked some 
> Caribbean stations as well I don't have a contest winning setup by any 
> means but I was expecting a lot more from NA, due to work I'm going to 
> miss the ARRL 160 contest next weekend which is a pity as it would 
> give me a better chance to see how well I can hear NA, Just wondering 
> how did guys over this side find NA prop and how did the NA guys find 
> prop to EU??
> 
> Thanks
> Trevor
> EI2GLB
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> 



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Re: Topband: FT8 on 160m

[Tim Shoppa]

As a practical matter there are several 2 kHZ segments of each band that are 
now devoted to 24x7 JT65, FT8, and other digital modes. Weak signal CW work - 
eg working rare mults or even just weak guys from common mults - in those 
segments just isn’t gonna happen.

Substantial parts of 80M and 40M have been pretty bad for several years now 
with SAILNET and other automatic modes.

Tim N3QE

> On Nov 27, 2017, at 3:43 PM, Roger Parsons via Topband 
>  wrote:
> 
> As we all know, CQWW produces huge activity on all HF bands. This year I was 
> hearing stations up to well above 1850kHz. I have found that trying to run 
> Europe is often more productive in the 1840-1850 segment, presumably because 
> it is less crowded than lower in frequency. 
> 
> 
> Late in the contest I started to CQ on about 1842kHz, and after a while, and 
> several QSOs, was told (on CW): "Please QSY. 1840 is reserved for FT8. Good 
> luck in the contest." Ignoring the fact that nobody has a reserved frequency 
> on any band, I thought OK, don't want to upset anybody, and moved to 
> 1842.9kHz. Shortly, the same message arrived.
> 
> My (probably incorrect) understanding is that FT8 stations are using USB with 
> a carrier frequency of 1840kHz. So a CW station on 1842.9 should be out of 
> their passband. I did listen carefully and could not hear any FT8 
> transmissions above 1842.2. (I have multiple receive antennas in a very quiet 
> location.)
> 
> I believe that FT8 transmissions in principle use a microscopic bandwidth, 
> but it appears they actually need a wide clear channel.
> 
> Yes? No?
> 
> 73 Roger
> VE3ZI
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
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Topband: FT8 on 160m

[Roger Parsons via Topband]

As we all know, CQWW produces huge activity on all HF bands. This year I was 
hearing stations up to well above 1850kHz. I have found that trying to run 
Europe is often more productive in the 1840-1850 segment, presumably because it 
is less crowded than lower in frequency. 


Late in the contest I started to CQ on about 1842kHz, and after a while, and 
several QSOs, was told (on CW): "Please QSY. 1840 is reserved for FT8. Good 
luck in the contest." Ignoring the fact that nobody has a reserved frequency on 
any band, I thought OK, don't want to upset anybody, and moved to 1842.9kHz. 
Shortly, the same message arrived.

My (probably incorrect) understanding is that FT8 stations are using USB with a 
carrier frequency of 1840kHz. So a CW station on 1842.9 should be out of their 
passband. I did listen carefully and could not hear any FT8 transmissions above 
1842.2. (I have multiple receive antennas in a very quiet location.)

I believe that FT8 transmissions in principle use a microscopic bandwidth, but 
it appears they actually need a wide clear channel.

Yes? No?

73 Roger
VE3ZI
_
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Re: Topband: CQ WW CW 160m observations

[Roger Parsons via Topband]

Quite surprised at the negative comments on 160m conditions this last weekend, 
as I found them excellent to Europe, particularly on Sunday morning. I worked 
over 200 which is a lot more than I have ever managed before. Really long haul 
conditions were however non-existent - P3 was the only Asia heard (but not 
worked).

73 Roger
VE3ZI
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Re: Topband: 160m magnetic loop

[John Randall via Topband]

Hi Roger, No, I have not seen it, but will take a look. I am eager to get this 
up and see what it does, especially with that proposed 890Hecta solar farm 
going up just a few miles away, its going to generate a lot more noise for all 
concerned. My loft is full on junk, so will probably have to clear it out and 
then see if its a feasible location with the surrounding noise. I hope the 
further from the house, the quieter it will be...ha ha.There were a lot of 
stations on the 160m contest, but its not my cuppa so I have a few shouts on 
ssb and then called it quits. CW is out due to arthiritis and this keyboard 
stuff is just not me either. Around 21h30 clock time , the locals start 
switching off their appliances and gadgets and I can connect my preamp. 
I am not too worried about Dx and I take it as and if it comes along. Too old 
to worry about paper certificates etc etc. Back to the loop, did you isolate 
the loop from the transceiver ?
73John - M0ELS


Digitally signed mail - John  M0ELS

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Re: Topband: CQ WW CW 160m observations

[Henk Remijn PA5KT]

I did not long stay on 160m as conditions did not seem very good.

Heard JA3YBK on saturday evening, but heavy pile up.

Worked some zone 5 and 4and some Caribbean.

I just had my inv L up on Friday. It has 2 radials. All temporary setup 
till the rework of the garden is finished.

K9AY loop is adding RX capabilities.

Power around 600 Watts.

73 Henk


Op 27-11-2017 om 18:33 schreef Ed Sawyer:

I worked G4IIY at about 03Z on Sunday morning.  Ian was one of the most
consistent signals CQing and heard from my end (nice job Ian).  However - no
one from EU was strong.  A few of the Carib and Zone 33 stations were strong
some of the time but even then not frequently.

  


I worked EI9E around the same time as G4IIY but EI9E was not quite as strong
and if he was CQing frequently then he wasn't heard a lot here.  Many EU
stations were at the noise level on the end of my phased 1000 ft beverages
to EU.  They clearly could not hear the USA well.

  


I worked a total of 15 EU stations in this contest.  It ranks as one of the
top 5 worst CQ WW 160/80/40 conditions in memory (since 1997 for me).

  


See you all on for a bit in ARRL 160.

  


73

  


Ed  N1UR  (2 el phased array and 1.5kw from Vermont)

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Re: Topband: CQ WW CW 160m observations

[MR TREVOR DUNNE]

Thanks for the report Ian you did very well, me not being able to run is a big 
reason why I missed lots I really need to improve my CW,

73
Trevor
EI2GLB
- Original Message -
From: Ian Fugler 
To: g...@ka1j.com, Topband@contesting.com
Sent: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 14:55:29 - (GMT)
Subject: Re: Topband: CQ WW CW 160m observations

Trevor

I worked 123 US stations on topband over the weekend, including Gary KA1J
(thanks!) and a couple in Zone 3.  However, I think conditions were not
great and it seemed on several occasions that the US stations were hearing
EU better than we could hear them.  Some of the RBN reports from north
America on my signal were never matched by any of the US or VE people that
called me.  In fact, I think that all of my north American contacts were
when I was running.  Every time I clicked on a spot for a W or VE station, I
could not hear them.  I also struggled to hear (let alone work) much beyond
zone 18 to the east.

So, I think condx were down and the general band noise in EU was high.

73,

Ian G4IIY





-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Smith
Sent: 27 November 2017 14:39
To: Topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: CQ WW CW 160m observations

Hi Trevor,

I'm in Connecticut. I didn't compete much, I was too busy otherwise this
weekend. I ran full power to give out some Q's on 160. 

I heard many more EU than I could get to hear me. Some stations I called
maybe 20 times and they either didn't reply to me or went to another call.
Odd, I usually make nearly all the EU contacts I hear in a contest. 

73,

Gary
KA1J

> Hi All
> 
> First time to give 160 a good go during CQ WW and I was surprised how 
> few NA stations I heard,
> 
> I feel I was active at the right time 03-08utc but apart from VO1HP 
> K3LR and W3LPL I don't think I worked a half a dozen more, worked some 
> Caribbean stations as well I don't have a contest winning setup by any 
> means but I was expecting a lot more from NA, due to work I'm going to 
> miss the ARRL 160 contest next weekend which is a pity as it would 
> give me a better chance to see how well I can hear NA, Just wondering 
> how did guys over this side find NA prop and how did the NA guys find 
> prop to EU??
> 
> Thanks
> Trevor
> EI2GLB
> _
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> 



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Topband: CQ WW CW 160m observations

[David Olean]

Trevor,.

I was calling and calling many EU stations and they would uniformly come 
back calling CQ right in my face both evenings. I was running 1500 watts 
into a vertical with 125 radials. I seemed to hear just fine, but no one 
across the pond could hear me. I quit in disgust on Friday evening about 
0330 UT,  but was active all evening on Saturday until the Sun came up 
in Europe. I only called CQ once around 0700 UT on Saturday and that is 
when I worked you.  Mostly I tuned looking for DX stations. A few 
earlier CQs produced nothing.  Very strange conditions for sure. I 
thought my antenna was broken.


Dave K1WHS

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Re: Topband: CQ WW CW 160m observations

[Ed Sawyer]

I worked G4IIY at about 03Z on Sunday morning.  Ian was one of the most
consistent signals CQing and heard from my end (nice job Ian).  However - no
one from EU was strong.  A few of the Carib and Zone 33 stations were strong
some of the time but even then not frequently.

 

I worked EI9E around the same time as G4IIY but EI9E was not quite as strong
and if he was CQing frequently then he wasn't heard a lot here.  Many EU
stations were at the noise level on the end of my phased 1000 ft beverages
to EU.  They clearly could not hear the USA well.  

 

I worked a total of 15 EU stations in this contest.  It ranks as one of the
top 5 worst CQ WW 160/80/40 conditions in memory (since 1997 for me).

 

See you all on for a bit in ARRL 160.

 

73

 

Ed  N1UR  (2 el phased array and 1.5kw from Vermont)

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Re: Topband: BOG pre amp info ?

[Lee STRAHAN]

 Hello Tim and all.
 The input impedance of the W7IUV amp is also highly dependent on the 
negative feedback found by looking at the unbypassed base bias circuit. And 
highly dependent on the size of the unbypassed emitter degeneration resistance.
There is a thorough discussion of this by Wes W7ZOI in the ARRL book 
"Experimental Methods in RF Design". 
Lee   K7TJR   OR

>Input impedance on the W7IUV preamp is determined almost entirely by the DC 
>bias currents.

>Clifton Labs used to have a really nifty set of pages on modeling and 
>measurement of the various high performance preamps. I really miss that site.

>Tim N3QE

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 9:46 AM, Roger Kennedy < ro...@wessexproductions.co.uk> 
wrote:

> Hi Don
>
> Gosh, really?  Looking at the circuit, and given the resistors used, I 
> would have thought the input impedance would be about 800 ohms . . .
>
> And hard to estimate the output impedance, but wouldn't have thought 
> it was about 50 ohms.
>
> Guess I'm wrong then !  Sorry about that.
>
> (I already built a FET pre-amp for my Loop . . . but was just 
> commenting.)
>
> 73  Roger G3YRO
>
>
>   _
>
> From: Don Kirk [mailto:wd8...@gmail.com]
> Sent: 27 November 2017 13:09
> To: Roger Kennedy
> Cc: topband
> Subject: Re: Topband: BOG pre amp info ?
>
>
>
> HI Roger,
>
>
> You said "However, the circuit seems odd . . . I used transformers in 
> and out on my Loop Preamp, to give a match to 50 ohms."
>
>
> I believe your above statement was in reference to the W7IUV preamp.  
> I've measured the W7IUV preamp input and output impedances and also 
> modeled the W7IUV preamp using LTspice, and both methods yield input 
> and output impedances of close to 50 ohms.  Therefore no additional 
> components (such as matching transformers) are required for impedance 
> matching purposes on the W7IUV preamp.
>
> Just FYI,
> Don (wd8dsb)
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 5:36 AM, Roger Kennedy 
>  wrote:
>
>
>
> That's a nice cheap board, and worth using considering it has relay 
> switching too . . .
>
> However, the circuit seems odd . . . I used transformers in and out on 
> my Loop Preamp, to give a match to 50 ohms.
>
> Roger G3YRO
>
> 
> ---
>
> Try this guy he does good quality boards and it's easier than 
> importing from the states,
>
> https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/
>  PCB-for-experimenters-
> 2N5109-or-DCP68-transistor-/261634019988>
> W7IUV-Beverage-preamplifier-PCB-for-experimenters-2
> N5109-or-DCP68-transistor-/261634019988
>
> Trevor
> EI2GLB
>
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_ 
>  topband
>
>
>
> _
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>
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Re: Topband: BOG pre amp info ?

[Jan Babinec]

Hi Tim,

K8ZOA's file are available here


https://www.okdxf.eu/index.php/technika


73  Jan OM2XW

Technika - okdxf.eu
www.okdxf.eu
Zvláštní přijímací anténa (Beverage, SALA, Pennant, Flag apod.) je nutností při 
práci na pásmech 160, 80 a často i 40 m. Aby však mělo použití ...





Od: Topband  v mene používateľa Tim Shoppa 

Odoslané: 27. novembra 2017 15:03:26
Komu: Roger Kennedy
Kópia: topBand List
Predmet: Re: Topband: BOG pre amp info ?

Input impedance on the W7IUV preamp is determined almost entirely by the DC
bias currents.

Clifton Labs used to have a really nifty set of pages on modeling and
measurement of the various high performance preamps. I really miss that
site.

Tim N3QE

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 9:46 AM, Roger Kennedy <
ro...@wessexproductions.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi Don
>
> Gosh, really?  Looking at the circuit, and given the resistors used, I
> would
> have thought the input impedance would be about 800 ohms . . .
>
> And hard to estimate the output impedance, but wouldn't have thought it was
> about 50 ohms.
>
> Guess I'm wrong then !  Sorry about that.
>
> (I already built a FET pre-amp for my Loop . . . but was just commenting.)
>
> 73  Roger G3YRO
>
>
>   _
>
> From: Don Kirk [mailto:wd8...@gmail.com]
> Sent: 27 November 2017 13:09
> To: Roger Kennedy
> Cc: topband
> Subject: Re: Topband: BOG pre amp info ?
>
>
>
> HI Roger,
>
>
> You said "However, the circuit seems odd . . . I used transformers in and
> out on my Loop Preamp, to give a match to 50 ohms."
>
>
> I believe your above statement was in reference to the W7IUV preamp.  I've
> measured the W7IUV preamp input and output impedances and also modeled the
> W7IUV preamp using LTspice, and both methods yield input and output
> impedances of close to 50 ohms.  Therefore no additional components (such
> as
> matching transformers) are required for impedance matching purposes on the
> W7IUV preamp.
>
> Just FYI,
> Don (wd8dsb)
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 5:36 AM, Roger Kennedy
>  wrote:
>
>
>
> That's a nice cheap board, and worth using considering it has relay
> switching too . . .
>
> However, the circuit seems odd . . . I used transformers in and out on my
> Loop Preamp, to give a match to 50 ohms.
>
> Roger G3YRO
>
> 
> ---
>
> Try this guy he does good quality boards and it's easier than importing
> from
> the states,
>
> https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/
>  PCB-for-experimenters-
> 2N5109-or-DCP68-transistor-/261634019988>
> W7IUV-Beverage-preamplifier-PCB-for-experimenters-2
> N5109-or-DCP68-transistor-/261634019988
>
> Trevor
> EI2GLB
>
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_
>  topband
>
>
>
> _
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>
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Re: Topband: BOG pre amp info ?

[Tim Shoppa]

Input impedance on the W7IUV preamp is determined almost entirely by the DC
bias currents.

Clifton Labs used to have a really nifty set of pages on modeling and
measurement of the various high performance preamps. I really miss that
site.

Tim N3QE

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 9:46 AM, Roger Kennedy <
ro...@wessexproductions.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi Don
>
> Gosh, really?  Looking at the circuit, and given the resistors used, I
> would
> have thought the input impedance would be about 800 ohms . . .
>
> And hard to estimate the output impedance, but wouldn't have thought it was
> about 50 ohms.
>
> Guess I'm wrong then !  Sorry about that.
>
> (I already built a FET pre-amp for my Loop . . . but was just commenting.)
>
> 73  Roger G3YRO
>
>
>   _
>
> From: Don Kirk [mailto:wd8...@gmail.com]
> Sent: 27 November 2017 13:09
> To: Roger Kennedy
> Cc: topband
> Subject: Re: Topband: BOG pre amp info ?
>
>
>
> HI Roger,
>
>
> You said "However, the circuit seems odd . . . I used transformers in and
> out on my Loop Preamp, to give a match to 50 ohms."
>
>
> I believe your above statement was in reference to the W7IUV preamp.  I've
> measured the W7IUV preamp input and output impedances and also modeled the
> W7IUV preamp using LTspice, and both methods yield input and output
> impedances of close to 50 ohms.  Therefore no additional components (such
> as
> matching transformers) are required for impedance matching purposes on the
> W7IUV preamp.
>
> Just FYI,
> Don (wd8dsb)
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 5:36 AM, Roger Kennedy
>  wrote:
>
>
>
> That's a nice cheap board, and worth using considering it has relay
> switching too . . .
>
> However, the circuit seems odd . . . I used transformers in and out on my
> Loop Preamp, to give a match to 50 ohms.
>
> Roger G3YRO
>
> 
> ---
>
> Try this guy he does good quality boards and it's easier than importing
> from
> the states,
>
> https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/
>  PCB-for-experimenters-
> 2N5109-or-DCP68-transistor-/261634019988>
> W7IUV-Beverage-preamplifier-PCB-for-experimenters-2
> N5109-or-DCP68-transistor-/261634019988
>
> Trevor
> EI2GLB
>
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_
>  topband
>
>
>
> _
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>
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Re: Topband: CQ WW CW 160m observations

[Ian Fugler]

Trevor

I worked 123 US stations on topband over the weekend, including Gary KA1J
(thanks!) and a couple in Zone 3.  However, I think conditions were not
great and it seemed on several occasions that the US stations were hearing
EU better than we could hear them.  Some of the RBN reports from north
America on my signal were never matched by any of the US or VE people that
called me.  In fact, I think that all of my north American contacts were
when I was running.  Every time I clicked on a spot for a W or VE station, I
could not hear them.  I also struggled to hear (let alone work) much beyond
zone 18 to the east.

So, I think condx were down and the general band noise in EU was high.

73,

Ian G4IIY





-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Smith
Sent: 27 November 2017 14:39
To: Topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: CQ WW CW 160m observations

Hi Trevor,

I'm in Connecticut. I didn't compete much, I was too busy otherwise this
weekend. I ran full power to give out some Q's on 160. 

I heard many more EU than I could get to hear me. Some stations I called
maybe 20 times and they either didn't reply to me or went to another call.
Odd, I usually make nearly all the EU contacts I hear in a contest. 

73,

Gary
KA1J

> Hi All
> 
> First time to give 160 a good go during CQ WW and I was surprised how 
> few NA stations I heard,
> 
> I feel I was active at the right time 03-08utc but apart from VO1HP 
> K3LR and W3LPL I don't think I worked a half a dozen more, worked some 
> Caribbean stations as well I don't have a contest winning setup by any 
> means but I was expecting a lot more from NA, due to work I'm going to 
> miss the ARRL 160 contest next weekend which is a pity as it would 
> give me a better chance to see how well I can hear NA, Just wondering 
> how did guys over this side find NA prop and how did the NA guys find 
> prop to EU??
> 
> Thanks
> Trevor
> EI2GLB
> _
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> 



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Topband: CQ WW CW 160m observations

[Roger Kennedy]

Trevor I popped on a few times on 160 over the contest weekend . . . but
agree, conditions were rather poor . . . I worked pretty much the same NA
stations as you.

I actually heard quite a few more US stations, but it was when they were
calling other Europeans (who often didn't hear them) . . . but as I never
heard them calling CQ I didn't have extra contacts.

73 Roger G3YRO

--

Hi All

First time to give 160 a good go during CQ WW and I was surprised how few NA
stations I heard,

I feel I was active at the right time 03-08utc but apart from VO1HP K3LR and
W3LPL I don't think I worked a half a dozen more, worked some Caribbean
stations as well I don't have a contest winning setup by any means but I was
expecting a lot more from NA, due to work I'm going to miss the ARRL 160
contest next weekend which is a pity as it would give me a better chance to
see how well I can hear NA,
Just wondering how did guys over this side find NA prop and how did the NA
guys find prop to EU??

Thanks
Trevor
EI2GLB


Regards

Roger Kennedy
Wessex Radio Productions

Tel: 0191 250 2715
Website: http://wessexproductions.co.uk

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Topband: BOG pre amp info ?

[Roger Kennedy]

Hi Don
 
Gosh, really?  Looking at the circuit, and given the resistors used, I would
have thought the input impedance would be about 800 ohms . . .
 
And hard to estimate the output impedance, but wouldn't have thought it was
about 50 ohms.
 
Guess I'm wrong then !  Sorry about that.
 
(I already built a FET pre-amp for my Loop . . . but was just commenting.)
 
73  Roger G3YRO


  _  

From: Don Kirk [mailto:wd8...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 27 November 2017 13:09
To: Roger Kennedy
Cc: topband
Subject: Re: Topband: BOG pre amp info ?



HI Roger,


You said "However, the circuit seems odd . . . I used transformers in and
out on my Loop Preamp, to give a match to 50 ohms." 


I believe your above statement was in reference to the W7IUV preamp.  I've
measured the W7IUV preamp input and output impedances and also modeled the
W7IUV preamp using LTspice, and both methods yield input and output
impedances of close to 50 ohms.  Therefore no additional components (such as
matching transformers) are required for impedance matching purposes on the
W7IUV preamp.

Just FYI,
Don (wd8dsb)


On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 5:36 AM, Roger Kennedy
 wrote:



That's a nice cheap board, and worth using considering it has relay
switching too . . .

However, the circuit seems odd . . . I used transformers in and out on my
Loop Preamp, to give a match to 50 ohms.

Roger G3YRO

---

Try this guy he does good quality boards and it's easier than importing from
the states,

https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/

W7IUV-Beverage-preamplifier-PCB-for-experimenters-2
N5109-or-DCP68-transistor-/261634019988

Trevor
EI2GLB

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 topband



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Re: Topband: CQ WW CW 160m observations

[Gary Smith]

Hi Trevor,

I'm in Connecticut. I didn't compete much, 
I was too busy otherwise this weekend. I 
ran full power to give out some Q's on 
160. 

I heard many more EU than I could get to 
hear me. Some stations I called maybe 20 
times and they either didn't reply to me 
or went to another call. Odd, I usually 
make nearly all the EU contacts I hear in 
a contest. 

73,

Gary
KA1J

> Hi All
> 
> First time to give 160 a good go during CQ WW and I was surprised how
> few NA stations I heard,
> 
> I feel I was active at the right time 03-08utc but apart from VO1HP
> K3LR and W3LPL I don't think I worked a half a dozen more, worked some
> Caribbean stations as well I don't have a contest winning setup by any
> means but I was expecting a lot more from NA, due to work I'm going to
> miss the ARRL 160 contest next weekend which is a pity as it would
> give me a better chance to see how well I can hear NA, Just wondering
> how did guys over this side find NA prop and how did the NA guys find
> prop to EU??
> 
> Thanks
> Trevor
> EI2GLB
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> 



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Re: Topband: CQ WW CW 160m observations

[Chortek, Robert L.]

I found conditions very poor and even on 80 no EU heard at my station in San 
Jose, California.

Bob AA6VB

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 27, 2017, at 5:57 AM, MR TREVOR DUNNE 
mailto:ei2...@eircom.net>> wrote:

Hi All

First time to give 160 a good go during CQ WW and I was surprised how few NA 
stations I heard,

I feel I was active at the right time 03-08utc but apart from VO1HP K3LR and 
W3LPL I don't think I worked a half a dozen more, worked some Caribbean 
stations as well I don't have a contest winning setup by any means but I was 
expecting a lot more from NA, due to work I'm going to miss the ARRL 160 
contest next weekend which is a pity as it would give me a better chance to see 
how well I can hear NA,
Just wondering how did guys over this side find NA prop and how did the NA guys 
find prop to EU??

Thanks
Trevor
EI2GLB
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Topband: CQ WW CW 160m observations

[MR TREVOR DUNNE]

Hi All

First time to give 160 a good go during CQ WW and I was surprised how few NA 
stations I heard,

I feel I was active at the right time 03-08utc but apart from VO1HP K3LR and 
W3LPL I don't think I worked a half a dozen more, worked some Caribbean 
stations as well I don't have a contest winning setup by any means but I was 
expecting a lot more from NA, due to work I'm going to miss the ARRL 160 
contest next weekend which is a pity as it would give me a better chance to see 
how well I can hear NA,
Just wondering how did guys over this side find NA prop and how did the NA guys 
find prop to EU??

Thanks
Trevor
EI2GLB
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Re: Topband: BOG pre amp info ?

[Don Kirk]

HI Roger,

You said "However, the circuit seems odd . . . I used transformers in and
out on my Loop Preamp, to give a match to 50 ohms."

I believe your above statement was in reference to the W7IUV preamp.  I've
measured the W7IUV preamp input and output impedances and also modeled the
W7IUV preamp using LTspice, and both methods yield input and output
impedances of close to 50 ohms.  Therefore no additional components (such
as matching transformers) are required for impedance matching purposes on
the W7IUV preamp.

Just FYI,
Don (wd8dsb)

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 5:36 AM, Roger Kennedy <
ro...@wessexproductions.co.uk> wrote:

>
> That's a nice cheap board, and worth using considering it has relay
> switching too . . .
>
> However, the circuit seems odd . . . I used transformers in and out on my
> Loop Preamp, to give a match to 50 ohms.
>
> Roger G3YRO
>
> 
> ---
>
> Try this guy he does good quality boards and it's easier than importing
> from
> the states,
>
> https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/W7IUV-Beverage-preamplifier-
> PCB-for-experimenters-2
> N5109-or-DCP68-transistor-/261634019988
>
> Trevor
> EI2GLB
>
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
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Topband: BOG pre amp info ?

[Roger Kennedy]

That's a nice cheap board, and worth using considering it has relay
switching too . . . 

However, the circuit seems odd . . . I used transformers in and out on my
Loop Preamp, to give a match to 50 ohms.

Roger G3YRO

---

Try this guy he does good quality boards and it's easier than importing from
the states,

https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/W7IUV-Beverage-preamplifier-PCB-for-experimenters-2
N5109-or-DCP68-transistor-/261634019988

Trevor 
EI2GLB

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Topband: 160m magnetic loop for receive

[Roger Kennedy]

I meant to add that as well as having a better signal/noise ratio than my
main antenna, it's particularly useful in a Contest, like this weekend's
CQWW.

It makes it easier to pick out the DX signals between the strong Europeans .
. . on the Loop the EU stations are weaker, but the DX stations are
stronger.

I've always lived in an ordinary house & garden, so never had room for a
Beverage . . . but this Loop really is the next best thing!  When I get
round to it, I'll create a web page for it, with diagrams etc.

Roger G3YRO


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Topband: 160m magnetic loop for receive

[Roger Kennedy]

Hi John

I built a 6ft diameter 4-turn 160m receiving loop a few weeks ago - did you
see my write-up on qrz.com?

It's installed up in my loft, pointing E-W, and is varicap tuned (sending DC
down the coax)

It works really well on DX - I've worked about 100 North and South American
stations using it.

Roger G3YRO



I have completed my magnetic loop and it consists of a 1t primary and a 3t
secondary inside a large hula loop 42" dia and wound with the same sense.
The primary has a capacitor in series with the winding, which then connects
to a binocular transformer ( common noise choke and isolation ), the other
side of which connects to the coax feed point. The secondary has a 250/250pf
airspaced variable cap across it but with another cap in series with the
winding to resonate it on topband. On the desk, it works very well on rx,
considering the indoor noise enviroment and the next step is to get it up on
a pole at the bottom of the garden.
The nights are lonely on topband in the UK, with some same old same stations
heard. Where is the DX heard, ANYWHERE EXCEPTING IN THE UK IT SEEMS. Sofar 4
stations worked on 1850 QRO.

73John -M0ELS


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