Re: Topband: propagation in reply of real antennas for topband comments

[Bryon Paul Veal NØAH]

No propagation? Just remote in where the signal you need is on ground wave! We 
don't need no stinking real men antennasand apparently no one is at the 
switch of the ARRL DXCC desk to care.  They are too busy rearranging the chairs 
on the Titanic.  Not a popular view (I know) but I can assure you there is some 
reality with our times right now.I think a lot of old timers hiding in the 
woodwork are trying get those topband DXCC numbers up in their sunset years bu 
any means, excuse the pun.

Paul. N0AH

Get Outlook for Android


From: Topband  on behalf of K9FD 

Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 5:10:32 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: AA0RS sig in EU

I find part of the problem to be many hams are willing to spend 10,000
dollars for a new
SDR radio,  and 50 cents on a decent antenna.  and wonder why they have
no propagation.

Merv K9FD/KH6

> Hello !
>
> it seems that slowly the band nw opens up. Dave had a workable signal
> this morning into EU. It was a kind of 1 minute QSB intervall. And on
> the peak he was 549. But he came back to the second call .
>
> In them ol`days we used to work the westcoast by the third weekend in
> September. But from what i experienced the last years, we have less
> stns capable of bridging the continent and another ocean.
>
> Its about time everybody brings up the filaments and wears the
> headphones again.
>
> see u guys down there wolfdf2py
>
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

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Re: Topband: [TowerTalk] Advise needed on phased beverages

[Eric NO3M]

I've used a three beverage broadside array aimed NE on 160m for the last 
4 years or so and it works very well.  Each beverage is 1000ft (304m) 
long and spaced about 300-310ft.


For best results on 160m, the spacing should be at least 300ft between 
beverages and the outer elements reduced to 1/2 voltage (1:2:1 binomial 
feed, cleans up pattern knocking down side lobes). You can accomplish 
that with 6dB attenuation pads on each of the outer legs, or one pad 
after combining the outer elements.  Resistor values for the 6dB pad(s) 
should be chosen for the circuit impedance wherever you decide to place 
them.  All elements are combined in-phase.


ON4UN's book has some info on this regarding a 4-el broadside vertical 
array (Ch. 7, Fig. 7-29), which is fed 1:2:2:1.


73 Eric NO3M


On 9/11/18 11:27 AM, Herbert Schoenbohm wrote:



I use DXE 9:1 beverage transformers and DXE 470 ohm termination

resistors.

I brought 150m (500ft) 50 ohm cable from each beverage feedpoint to
the shack and connected to Microham Stack Switch (like Stackmatch).
All the cables were of identical length to ensure same phasing.
So I presume this system gives me full ability to test any combination
of those 3 beverages alone or phased with each other?
Well, all the 3 beverages alone are quite identical indeed which is

good.

But now when switched in pairs or all 3 together I am not seeing much
effect. I do know what the patterns should look like and I presumed
the effect would be strong especially with signals coming from side
but most of the time I notice no difference with any signals when
comparing any single beverages to combinations.
This is puzzling. Modelling suggests I should for example have very
big improvements in suppressing signals 45 degrees off on 160m when
using 2 phased beverages 120m apart as well as when using all 3
beverages on 80m but I did not notice such drops of 10-20db almost in
any signals from any off directions.
I could hardly notice sometimes the expected 3-5db increase in the
signals from the right direction but not always as well.
Can some of you having experiences with phased beverages tell me if I
have done something wrong in my setup?? Should I test them
differently? Are the phased beverages overrated and in real life there
is seldom a significant improvement over 1 single wire beverage that
is already long enough like 220m in my case?
Look forward to any input. I can send the modelled patterns and maps
of my beverages in picture files to anyone interested.



60m (your separation) is about 3/8 wavelength on 160, and the elements
are long (1 1/8th wavelength) so they'll interact signficantly, even if
disconnected from the feed (just like parasitic elements on a Yagi).

How high off the ground are the wires?

How did you model the switching?

___



__

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Re: Topband: AA0RS sig in EU

[K9FD]

I find part of the problem to be many hams are willing to spend 10,000 
dollars for a new
SDR radio,  and 50 cents on a decent antenna.  and wonder why they have 
no propagation.


Merv K9FD/KH6


Hello !

it seems that slowly the band nw opens up. Dave had a workable signal 
this morning into EU. It was a kind of 1 minute QSB intervall. And on 
the peak he was 549. But he came back to the second call .


In them ol`days we used to work the westcoast by the third weekend in 
September. But from what i experienced the last years, we have less 
stns capable of bridging the continent and another ocean.


Its about time everybody brings up the filaments and wears the 
headphones again.


see u guys down there wolf    df2py

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband


_
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Re: Topband: AA0RS sig in EU

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

The band was open this morning to VK... I worked VK2HJ es VK2WF

73,

John, W4NU
Atlanta, GA

On 9/11/2018 5:26 PM, vk2wf wrote:

Hi allYesterday I worked DL7CX, OT4A and PE5T just on my sunrise.73Adrian vk2wf


Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy S7 on the Telstra Mobile Network
 Original message From: daraym...@iowatelecom.net Date: 12/9/18  6:58 am  
(GMT+10:00) To: topband@contesting.com, "Dr. Wolf Ostwald"  
Subject: Re: Topband: AA0RS sig in EU
Greetings Topbanders. . .Wolf is right.  Get out phones and fire up the
filaments!  I got on TB this morning for the first time this season (just
got the antennas recommissioned after lightning season) and worked VK7CW,
VK5XDX, VK2WF, and VK3HJ.  No sign of our good friends from JA yet but
things are looking up!   73. . .Dave, W0FLS

-Original Message-
From: Dr. Wolf Ostwald
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2018 2:35 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: AA0RS sig in EU

Hello !

it seems that slowly the band nw opens up. Dave had a workable signal
this morning into EU. It was a kind of 1 minute QSB intervall. And on
the peak he was 549. But he came back to the second call .

In them ol`days we used to work the westcoast by the third weekend in
September. But from what i experienced the last years, we have less stns
capable of bridging the continent and another ocean.

Its about time everybody brings up the filaments and wears the
headphones again.

see u guys down there wolf    df2py

_
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Re: Topband: AA0RS sig in EU

[vk2wf]

Hi allYesterday I worked DL7CX, OT4A and PE5T just on my sunrise.73Adrian vk2wf 


Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy S7 on the Telstra Mobile Network
 Original message From: daraym...@iowatelecom.net Date: 12/9/18 
 6:58 am  (GMT+10:00) To: topband@contesting.com, "Dr. Wolf Ostwald" 
 Subject: Re: Topband: AA0RS sig in EU 
Greetings Topbanders. . .Wolf is right.  Get out phones and fire up the 
filaments!  I got on TB this morning for the first time this season (just 
got the antennas recommissioned after lightning season) and worked VK7CW, 
VK5XDX, VK2WF, and VK3HJ.  No sign of our good friends from JA yet but 
things are looking up!   73. . .Dave, W0FLS

-Original Message- 
From: Dr. Wolf Ostwald
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2018 2:35 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: AA0RS sig in EU

Hello !

it seems that slowly the band nw opens up. Dave had a workable signal
this morning into EU. It was a kind of 1 minute QSB intervall. And on
the peak he was 549. But he came back to the second call .

In them ol`days we used to work the westcoast by the third weekend in
September. But from what i experienced the last years, we have less stns
capable of bridging the continent and another ocean.

Its about time everybody brings up the filaments and wears the
headphones again.

see u guys down there wolf    df2py

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 

_
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Re: Topband: AA0RS sig in EU

[daraymond]

Greetings Topbanders. . .Wolf is right.  Get out phones and fire up the 
filaments!  I got on TB this morning for the first time this season (just 
got the antennas recommissioned after lightning season) and worked VK7CW, 
VK5XDX, VK2WF, and VK3HJ.  No sign of our good friends from JA yet but 
things are looking up!   73. . .Dave, W0FLS


-Original Message- 
From: Dr. Wolf Ostwald

Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2018 2:35 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: AA0RS sig in EU

Hello !

it seems that slowly the band nw opens up. Dave had a workable signal
this morning into EU. It was a kind of 1 minute QSB intervall. And on
the peak he was 549. But he came back to the second call .

In them ol`days we used to work the westcoast by the third weekend in
September. But from what i experienced the last years, we have less stns
capable of bridging the continent and another ocean.

Its about time everybody brings up the filaments and wears the
headphones again.

see u guys down there wolfdf2py

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband 


_
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Re: Topband: OT - disconnecting coax and rotor/control cable

[David Harmon]

Rick you are so right!
I do the same thing as you do.
Butone time I made the mistake of allowing the coaxes to lay on the 
floornow I have 2 holes burned through the carpet in the shack.
Won't do that again!


73

David Harmon
K6XYZ
Sperry, OK

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Richard 
Schmiedt
Sent: Friday, September 7, 2018 11:36 PM
To: g...@ka1j.com
Cc: Topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: OT - disconnecting coax and rotor/control cable

I’ve been hit twice, in SC where we have lots of lightning.  I gave up on 
proper grounding techniques during a lightning storm. My shack is now optimized 
to ISOLATE all station equipment from the antennas, AC mains, and grounds 
coming into the shack when I’m not around. All the stuff coming from the 
outside, like antenna transmission lines are directly grounded to a buss going 
to outside grounding rods, this includes all rg6 lines from RX antennas. 
Rotator cables are detached with 8 pin cinch-jones plugs which are unplugged, 
and the outside ends are tied around the grounding strip to the outside. The 
mains for both 120 and 240V lines optimized for quick disconnect from their 
sockets (including the computer).  Finally the station ground is removed. All 
station equipment and leads are at least 2-4 feet from the ant outside inputs 
to the shack. 

Switches don’t work even with just nearby strikes. Isolation means no grounds 
around for lightning to seek. For a direct strike, all bets are off no matter 
what you do. 

It takes me less than 2 mins to completely isolate my equipment. I have had no 
problems (knock on wood) with my radio equipment over 15 years where I’ve had 
other TVs and electronics in the house blown up by nearby strikes. 

There are many examples of coaxial grounding strips you can use. For the F 
connectors I use slip on connectors. For coax, slip ons are good for low power, 
but I prefer to screw them on for high power.  The KISS principle is your 
friend ...

Good luck and my 2 cents. 

Rick
W4GE

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 6, 2018, at 7:14 PM, Gary Smith  wrote:
> 
> Don't know where best to post this and I respect the knowledge base 
> here so I'll ask with the OT in the subject line. I'm getting to the 
> point I want to do less effort and still do things right. I had 
> lightning damage to a K3 and don't want to do that again.
> 
> What enters the house are: 
> 
> - RX antenna controller cables One with 5 wires, one with 6.
> - Antenna rotor cable 6 wires. 
> - The remote coax switch 7 wires.  
> - Two coax going to the amplifiers.
> - Two RG-6 coax going to the Rx antennas.
> 
> I would also like to separate the 120 V strips at the same time
> 
> What I would like to do... is have one or two switches to flip that 
> will allow disconnect of all of this.
> 
> As it is now, I have to unscrew each coax each time I close the shack 
> and re-attach the next time I'm in the shack. I made molex connectors 
> for the Rx controller cables, have not yet done that with the rotor 
> cable nor the remote coax cable. I unplug the power to the terminal 
> strips
> 
> I was thinking of perhaps using relays (I have a lot of SS relays but 
> don't think they would be usable in this endeavor.
> Maybe relays like in the old SB-220 where there were many individual 
> relays activated at the same time, would work for control/rotor 
> cables. But I wonder if the air gap in such a relay would be 
> sufficient to be a barrier come another lightning issue.
> 
> I have several vacuum & heavy contact air gap relays that could do the 
> job for the coax. I also have some substantial relays I could use for 
> the power cords involved.
> 
> If I were to have all this in one
> enclosure, it would be nice to get up, flip a few switches and walk 
> away knowing my station is truly disconnected. At this point I have 
> time to do anything, and I like making things, but only if it's worth 
> the time.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 73,
> 
> Gary
> KA1J
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Re: Topband: [TowerTalk] Advise needed on phased beverages

[donovanf]

Hi Tonno, 



Broadside phased Beverages and short verticals do work! As you 
should have seen in your modelling, broadside spacing determines 
the angle of radiation with optimum front-to-side ratio. 



I've had excellent results with broadside phased Beverages at W3LPL, 
and more recently with broadside-endfire arrays of short verticals 
(W8JI passive 8-circle arrays). 



Beverages and short verticals are so lossy that they don't interact with 
each other even at very small spacings. 


During my professional career I worked on Beverage arrays with 32, 
64 and 128 broadside phased Beverages for 3 to 30 MHz. The Beverages 
were installed over a field as precisely flat as a football field but much 
larger. There were no obstructions or other antennas within hundreds 
of meters of the array. in every direction. 


The patterns were verified by a transmitter flown on an aircraft -- flying 
in a precisely controlled pattern accurately reported by telemetry -- 
and received by the Beverage array. I wish we could afford to do 
this precision pattern measurement with our ham antennas! 



On 160 meters you should achieve best results by phasing just the 
two outer Beverages. The middle Beverage doesn't contribute much, 
as you should see in your model. 


On 80 meters your Beverages are probably too long, its likely that 
signals arriving at the far end of your Beverage have the wrong phase 
relationship to signals arriving at the near end. Y ou should achieve 
the best results by phasing only the two closest Beverages. 


Your model won't accurately predict this because antenna models 
always -- incorrectly -- assume a constant-phase received signal 
wave front. In many cases the wave front on 80 meters will not be 
phase coherent across an array more than one wavelength wide 
nd/or more than one wavelength long. 


Perhaps your lack of broadside directivity is caused by common 
mode signals leaking into your system from the outside of the coax 
cable shields. You didn't mention common mode chokes in your 
antenna description, 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 







- Original Message -

From: "Herbert Schoenbohm"  
To: jim...@earthlink.net, "TopBand List"  
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 3:27:12 PM 
Subject: Re: Topband: [TowerTalk] Advise needed on phased beverages 

Jim, yes, I suspected they might interact of course. But can I avoid it? 
> ungrounding both ends of the unused beverage would also not eliminate 
> coupling I am afraid? 

If the feedlines are a half wave or multiples of a half wave you should try 
terminating the unused shack end. This electrically places the termination 
right at the feed point. 

Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ 

On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 11:10 AM jimlux  wrote: 

> On 9/11/18 6:19 AM, Tonno Vahk wrote: 
> > Jim, yes, I suspected they might interact of course. But can I avoid it? 
> > ungrounding both ends of the unused beverage would also not eliminate 
> > coupling I am afraid? 
> 
> Exactly... no convenient way to change it in the field. 
> 
> A model can tell - run the model with the wire in and wire not in and 
> see what the difference is. 
> 
> 
> > 
> > Height is ca 2m +/- 0.5m. 
> > 
> > I did not model switching in any other way than simply creating 
> > feedpoint for both beverages. No feedlines in the model. Could such long 
> > feedlines even if the same length, create a trouble? 
> 
> Sure - the feedline is an impedance transformer, so it changes the 
> impedance at the feed end of the antenna. For instance, if it were a 
> quarter wavelength (or an odd multiple), if you short the shack end, 
> it's an open at the antenna end, and vice versa. 
> 
> I'm not sure how sensitive a beverage is to end termination impedance. 
> 
> If you're using NEC or a derivative, you can put a TL card or NT card in 
> to do the transmission line and the model will show the effect. 
> 
> 
> > 
> > On 11 Sep 2018, at 15:19, jimlux  > > wrote: 
> > 
> > On 9/11/18 5:00 AM, Tonno Vahk wrote: 
> >> Hi, 
> >> Last weekend I finally got into experimenting with phased beverages, 
> >> something I was planning for some time. 
> >> I installed 3 broadside 219m (718ft) long beverages into the forest 
> >> looking at 90 degrees and separated 60m (200ft) from each other (120m 
> >> between the outer ones). 
> >> I took great care to make sure the wires are straight and fully 
> >> parallel to each other as well as starting from the the same line. 
> >> I use DXE 9:1 beverage transformers and DXE 470 ohm termination 
> resistors. 
> >> I brought 150m (500ft) 50 ohm cable from each beverage feedpoint to 
> >> the shack and connected to Microham Stack Switch (like Stackmatch). 
> >> All the cables were of identical length to ensure same phasing. 
> >> So I presume this system gives me full ability to test any combination 
> >> of those 3 beverages alone or phased with each other? 
> >> Well, all the 3 beverages alone are quite identical indeed which is 
> good. 
> >> But now whe

Re: Topband: Radial wire

[Mike Waters]

I just realized that my Beverage wire below was severely stretched. Twice!
That may have shortened its life, and may be the reason why it's so rusty
in many places. (I can't say by how much.)

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Thu, Sep 6, 2018, 12:47 PM Mike Waters  wrote:

> ... I have a Beverage made from 17 gauge plated steel electric fence wire
> that's been up roughly 8 years. The plating is gone from much of it, and
> signal levels are really down now because of that due to paramagnetic
> losses. In contact with moist soil, I would not expect it to last as long.
>
_
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Re: Topband: Radial wire

[Rob Atkinson]

>Rob, Not barbed wire, but electric fence wire.  This wire stays good for
>decades. Look at the horse and cattle farms around you. It has the same
>conductivity as your galvanized steel tower.  Nor does anyone consider
>making a tower out of copper or copper clad steel.☺ A radial system of 60
>1/4 wave of #10 copper cost 50 times what the electric fence wire costs.

Big difference between wire on fence and buried.  I've mistakenly
installed galvanized steel ground rods here.  Pulling them back out 10
years later they were nothing but rust and useless.  The surface area
of a tower's galvanized legs is much greater than the surface area of
a skinny wire, therefore the RF conductivity is NOT the same.  copper
has in fact become expensive compared to 15 years ago but all antennas
have gotten expensive.  The ground system is 1/2 of an antenna.  But,
unlike the directly excited part, you don't have to do the ground
system all at once.  You can put it in at affordable segments over
time, assuming you will use it for years to come.

73

Rob
K5UJ
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Re: Topband: Radial wire

[Jim Thomson]

Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2018 15:27:35 -0500
From: Rob Atkinson 
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Radial wire

http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: [TowerTalk] Advise needed on phased beverages

[Herbert Schoenbohm]

 Jim, yes, I suspected they might interact of course. But can I avoid it?
> ungrounding both ends of the unused beverage would also not eliminate
> coupling I am afraid?

If the feedlines are a half wave or multiples of a half wave you should try
terminating the unused shack end.  This electrically places the termination
right at the feed point.

Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ

On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 11:10 AM jimlux  wrote:

> On 9/11/18 6:19 AM, Tonno Vahk wrote:
> > Jim, yes, I suspected they might interact of course. But can I avoid it?
> > ungrounding both ends of the unused beverage would also not eliminate
> > coupling I am afraid?
>
> Exactly... no convenient way to change it in the field.
>
> A model can tell - run the model with the wire in and wire not in and
> see what the difference is.
>
>
> >
> > Height is ca 2m +/- 0.5m.
> >
> > I did not model switching in any other way than simply creating
> > feedpoint for both beverages. No feedlines in the model. Could such long
> > feedlines even if the same length, create a trouble?
>
> Sure - the feedline is an impedance transformer, so it changes the
> impedance at the feed end of the antenna. For instance, if it were a
> quarter wavelength (or an odd multiple), if you short the shack end,
> it's an open at the antenna end, and vice versa.
>
> I'm not sure how sensitive a beverage is to end termination impedance.
>
> If you're using NEC or a derivative, you can put a TL card or NT card in
> to do the transmission line and the model will show the effect.
>
>
> >
> > On 11 Sep 2018, at 15:19, jimlux  > > wrote:
> >
> > On 9/11/18 5:00 AM, Tonno Vahk wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >> Last weekend I finally got into experimenting with phased beverages,
> >> something I was planning for some time.
> >> I installed 3 broadside 219m (718ft) long beverages into the forest
> >> looking at 90 degrees and separated 60m (200ft) from each other (120m
> >> between the outer ones).
> >> I took great care to make sure the wires are straight and fully
> >> parallel to each other as well as starting from the the same line.
> >> I use DXE 9:1 beverage transformers and DXE 470 ohm termination
> resistors.
> >> I brought 150m (500ft) 50 ohm cable from each beverage feedpoint to
> >> the shack and connected to Microham Stack Switch (like Stackmatch).
> >> All the cables were of identical length to ensure same phasing.
> >> So I presume this system gives me full ability to test any combination
> >> of those 3 beverages alone or phased with each other?
> >> Well, all the 3 beverages alone are quite identical indeed which is
> good.
> >> But now when switched in pairs or all 3 together I am not seeing much
> >> effect. I do know what the patterns should look like and I presumed
> >> the effect would be strong especially with signals coming from side
> >> but most of the time I notice no difference with any signals when
> >> comparing any single beverages to combinations.
> >> This is puzzling. Modelling suggests I should for example have very
> >> big improvements in suppressing signals 45 degrees off on 160m when
> >> using 2 phased beverages 120m apart as well as when using all 3
> >> beverages on 80m but I did not notice such drops of 10-20db almost in
> >> any signals from any off directions.
> >> I could hardly notice sometimes the expected 3-5db increase in the
> >> signals from the right direction but not always as well.
> >> Can some of you having experiences with phased beverages tell me if I
> >> have done something wrong in my setup?? Should I test them
> >> differently? Are the phased beverages overrated and in real life there
> >> is seldom a significant improvement over 1 single wire beverage that
> >> is already long enough like 220m in my case?
> >> Look forward to any input. I can send the modelled patterns and maps
> >> of my beverages in picture files to anyone interested.
> >
> >
> >
> > 60m (your separation) is about 3/8 wavelength on 160, and the elements
> > are long (1 1/8th wavelength) so they'll interact signficantly, even if
> > disconnected from the feed (just like parasitic elements on a Yagi).
> >
> > How high off the ground are the wires?
> >
> > How did you model the switching?
> >
> > ___
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > TowerTalk mailing list
> > towert...@contesting.com 
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >
>
> ___
>
>
>
> ___
> TowerTalk mailing list
> towert...@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
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Re: Topband: OT - disconnecting coax and rotor/control cable

[Richard Schmiedt]

I’ve been hit twice, in SC where we have lots of lightning.  I gave up on 
proper grounding techniques during a lightning storm. My shack is now optimized 
to ISOLATE all station equipment from the antennas, AC mains, and grounds 
coming into the shack when I’m not around. All the stuff coming from the 
outside, like antenna transmission lines are directly grounded to a buss going 
to outside grounding rods, this includes all rg6 lines from RX antennas. 
Rotator cables are detached with 8 pin cinch-jones plugs which are unplugged, 
and the outside ends are tied around the grounding strip to the outside. The 
mains for both 120 and 240V lines optimized for quick disconnect from their 
sockets (including the computer).  Finally the station ground is removed. All 
station equipment and leads are at least 2-4 feet from the ant outside inputs 
to the shack. 

Switches don’t work even with just nearby strikes. Isolation means no grounds 
around for lightning to seek. For a direct strike, all bets are off no matter 
what you do. 

It takes me less than 2 mins to completely isolate my equipment. I have had no 
problems (knock on wood) with my radio equipment over 15 years where I’ve had 
other TVs and electronics in the house blown up by nearby strikes. 

There are many examples of coaxial grounding strips you can use. For the F 
connectors I use slip on connectors. For coax, slip ons are good for low power, 
but I prefer to screw them on for high power.  The KISS principle is your 
friend ...

Good luck and my 2 cents. 

Rick
W4GE

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 6, 2018, at 7:14 PM, Gary Smith  wrote:
> 
> Don't know where best to post this and I 
> respect the knowledge base here so I'll 
> ask with the OT in the subject line. I'm 
> getting to the point I want to do less 
> effort and still do things right. I had 
> lightning damage to a K3 and don't want to 
> do that again. 
> 
> What enters the house are: 
> 
> - RX antenna controller cables One with 5 
> wires, one with 6.
> - Antenna rotor cable 6 wires. 
> - The remote coax switch 7 wires.  
> - Two coax going to the amplifiers.
> - Two RG-6 coax going to the Rx antennas.
> 
> I would also like to separate the 120 V 
> strips at the same time
> 
> What I would like to do... is have one or 
> two switches to flip that will allow 
> disconnect of all of this. 
> 
> As it is now, I have to unscrew each coax 
> each time I close the shack and re-attach 
> the next time I'm in the shack. I made 
> molex connectors for the Rx controller 
> cables, have not yet done that with the 
> rotor cable nor the remote coax cable. I 
> unplug the power to the terminal strips
> 
> I was thinking of perhaps using relays (I 
> have a lot of SS relays but don't think 
> they would be usable in this endeavor. 
> Maybe relays like in the old SB-220 where 
> there were many individual relays 
> activated at the same time, would work for 
> control/rotor cables. But I wonder if the 
> air gap in such a relay would be 
> sufficient to be a barrier come another 
> lightning issue. 
> 
> I have several vacuum & heavy contact air 
> gap relays that could do the job for the 
> coax. I also have some substantial relays 
> I could use for the power cords involved.
> 
> If I were to have all this in one 
> enclosure, it would be nice to get up, 
> flip a few switches and walk away knowing 
> my station is truly disconnected. At this 
> point I have time to do anything, and I 
> like making things, but only if it's worth 
> the time.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 73,
> 
> Gary
> KA1J
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Re: Topband: Radial Wire

[Herbert Schoenbohm]

Roger posted.":but I would emphasize that WD1A is horrible for
bi-directional Beverages as the loss is excessive in the transmission line
mode."  Roger that is clearly the case as I have found here the hard way.
I now use the WD1A for single wire Beverage antennas due to its low cost
and strength.  I just terminate the far end with a 450 Ohm non-inductive
resistor. it would be great for radials as well.

Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ

On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 6:30 PM Roger Parsons via Topband <
topband@contesting.com> wrote:

> Joel W5ZN wrote:
>
> ... low cost radial wire options got me thinking about WD1A. Anyone have
> any experience with it as radial wire?? There are two wires that should
> pull apart easily ...
>
> I use WD1A wire mostly for (single direction) Beverages, but also as
> radials at the ends of those antennas. In my experience it is excellent for
> both applications BUT only if the two wires remain joined. If they are
> pulled apart they seem to be self tangling! I think that the wire is
> actually a very clever design - the two wires appear to have opposite
> twists - so it lays very flat and straight.
>
> (I know this is not the subject of the posts, but I would emphasise that
> WD1A is horrible for bi-directional Beverages as the loss is excessive in
> the transmission line mode.)
>
> 73 Roger
>  VE3ZI
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Topband: AA0RS sig in EU

[Dr. Wolf Ostwald]

Hello !

it seems that slowly the band nw opens up. Dave had a workable signal 
this morning into EU. It was a kind of 1 minute QSB intervall. And on 
the peak he was 549. But he came back to the second call .


In them ol`days we used to work the westcoast by the third weekend in 
September. But from what i experienced the last years, we have less stns 
capable of bridging the continent and another ocean.


Its about time everybody brings up the filaments and wears the 
headphones again.


see u guys down there wolf    df2py

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Re: Topband: Edge-wound inductors vs round stock (was Air Wound Coil)

[MU 4CX250B]

Don raises interesting points. A couple of minor addenda.  First, keep
in mind that "skin depth," iwhich is the tendency of an AC current to
flow near a conductor surface, is frequency dependent. The skin depth
approaches infinity at zero frequency, which means DC currents are
pretty much uniform throughout  the cross section of a uniform wire.
On 160m the skin depth is about 50 microns.

Second, lines of current tend to repel each other (I.e., spread out)
because the magnetic field of the moving charges repel each other.  In
an edge-wound inductor, the current density will be highest along the
outer thin side of of the inductor. IMHO there is an insignificant
performance difference between it and a traditional inductor.
73,
Jim w8zr

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 6, 2018, at 10:49 AM, Donald Chester  wrote:
>
> Sat Sep 1 21:21:26 EDT 2018 Mike www.w0btu.com wrote:
>> It may very well be true that tank coils made from round copper have some
>> slight advantages over edge-wound. But after all is said and done, does
>> this really make a great deal of difference? :-)
>> I have an edge-wound roller inductor in my homebrew amplifier.
>> http://www.w0btu.com/833C_linear_amplifier.html
>> It's reliable, doesn't arc, and doesn't get warm. Isn't that what's really
>> important?
>
> I recently ran across this discussion on another radio forum, claiming that 
> edge wound is inferior in terms of Q to round wire. It was said that on a 
> flat strip, the current tends to crowd to the two edges for the same reasons 
> that cause skin effect, thereby wasting much of the copper. Round wires would 
> be less prone to this "crowding effect" because they have no edges.
>
> I checked out a few on-line sites, but they quickly get bogged down in long 
> series of long, tedious mathematical equations, and I was not able to come to 
> any clear conclusions.  Some suggest that the subject is not well understood, 
> even suggesting Terman's textbook is wrong, or that the effect is negligible 
> if the radius of curvature at the edges of the strip is much greater than the 
> skin depth.  The skin-effect proposition makes some sense, although I had 
> never thought of this. The closest I  could come to a conclusion from the 
> texts is in regard to the "proximity effect" of closely spaced parallel round 
> conductors, in which the rf current density in each conductor crowds in the 
> direction away from the adjacent conductor.  The rectangular conductor could 
> be thought of as approximating a large number of closely-spaced round 
> conductors, so the current density would tend to crowd towards the edges of 
> the conductor.  I would like to see/hear some opinions on the subject.
>
> I can understand that primary advantage of edge-wound would be for mechanical 
> reasons, for example for a rotary inductor where an effective sliding contact 
> is more difficult with round wire. Slip-on coil clips like the ones EF 
> Johnson used to make are designed to work with edge-wound coils. I would add 
> that the spacing between turns with edge-wound can be decrease compared to 
> the same amount of copper in round stock, thus increasing the number of turns 
> per inch with edge-wound, resulting in more rigidity for a given thickness of 
> conductor.  Most broadcast transmitters, phasors and ATU units use edge-wound 
> stock, so there must be a good reason.
>
> I threw together a  prototype for  the matching unit for my 160m vertical, 
> using some badly corroded round-wire coil stock from the junkbox, with  
> deteriorated  plastic supporting strips. Once the final  design of the coils 
> was determined by trial-and-error, I built a  permanent version, using 
> like-new silver-plated edgewound coil stock, with the same coil diameter and 
> turns spacing.  I had anticipated slightly better efficiency with the final 
> version, but as it turned out, the prototype and final version performed 
> equally well, neither one any better or any worse than the other. With the 
> same DC input to the final, the rf ammeter  reading at the base of the 
> vertical was exactly the  same with either set of matching coils.
>
> Don k4kyv
>
>
>
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