Re: Topband: Inverted L improvement question

[Mike Waters]

How about a Waller flag? Better than a Beverage, since you can rotate it!

Search for *Waller* or *Waller flag* in the Topband archives. Lots of
information there, with a link to the N4IS page about them.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 4:20 PM Wes Stewart  wrote:

> I just drove down to the local convenience store and bought some Powerball
> tickets.  If I win, there's a nice 80 acre parcel across the street from me
> that I would buy.  Until then, I'm stuck on a 1.7 acre plot with no room
> for beverages.
>
> Wes  N7WS
>
> On 12/22/2018 1:20 PM, Mike Waters wrote:
>
> Hi Wes,
>
> Once you try a Beverage, you'll realize that those antennas weren't
> hearing the weak ones that called you. ;-) See
> http://www.w0btu.com/Beverage_antennas.html.
>
>
_
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Re: Topband: Inverted L improvement question

[David Olean]

Hello Wes,

    I tried 160 back in the early 70's when my brother was active from 
CO and we skedded on weekends. I used a long wire about 650 ft long for 
both TX and RX.  Working Europe was special with that setup.  I had a 
75A4 RX and a t-368 RF deck with 1000 volts on the 4-400 to net me 80 
watts output! LORAN was a big problem then. Things were dormant here on 
160 for years until recently when I resurrected the long wire. It stunk, 
so I put up an inverted VEE with the apex at 80 ft and the ends at about 
25 or 30 ft. I worked about 90 countries with that setup but I had to 
work at it. I did nab VK, ZL, UA0 and JA with that antenna but it was a 
struggle. In all my time on 160 I was never spotted on DX Summit.  I 
think I had the vee up for two winters and I am sure, I could easily 
work 100 countries with it if I were more active. Still I was at the 
bottom of any pileup.


So I determined that my inverted VEE was not so hot and I desired 
something better.  I ripped apart an old Rohn 25 80 ft tower removing 
all the VHF feedlines etc and loaded it as a gamma matched vertical for 
160 with top loading. I remember trying to tune it up during CQ WW CW 
and I had the SWR at about 3:1 as it got dark.  I had a BC band variable 
across it for tuning, and when I listened, I heard HK2NA way over S9. I 
figured the cap might withstand about ten or fifteen watts, so called 
him with low power in a pileup and he came right back! Instantly I knew 
that the vertical was the way to go.  The next day, I got the VSWR flat 
at 1810 and I was off to the races! I started to see that I was being 
spotted on DX Summit quite often. I have a quiet location with night 
time noise on the vertical at about -113 dBm typically.  I could tell I 
needed better hearing, so made a beverage, but the wire went rather 
close to one of my guy anchors and I did not think that the beverage was 
working all that well. I remember asking about it as I did not detect 
any huge drop in noise and the S/N ratio was not much better than with 
the vertical.


I discovered the guy anchor problem and its solution while driving down 
the hill from my VHF shack on the top of my little hilltop. I have a 130 
ft Rohn 45 up there for 144 MHz and a guy anchor is set right next to my 
woods road.  As I drove by it in my truck, I had the AM radio on and 
tuned to WABC in NYC a few hundred miles away. This was at noontime and 
I did not realize the radio was even turned on, but when driving by the 
guy anchor, WABC peaked up out of the noise and was good copy on the car 
radio. The proverbial lightbulb went on in my brain as I figured that 
all the noise from my tower was getting into that beverage wire that ran 
right past the guy wire. I left that beverage in place, then made an 
exact duplicate to it but located it about 400 ft away from my tower. I 
could switch between the two antennas. What a difference! Not only was 
the new wire very quiet at better than -130 dBm, but the signals from EU 
were about 5 dB better on it on an absolute basis. In short, the S/N 
ratio difference was earth shaking!  I ripped out the old beverage and 
have been having fun ever since.


Bottom line is that an active array,  a beverage, or other directional 
array is the best way to hear things no matter how quiet your QTH is.  
See the following article by K9LA:


https://k9la.us/May16_Notes_on_Low-Noise_Receive_Antennas.pdf

I have been playing with about seven beverages and my worst one 
typically is the SW wire. I see a -120 dBm noise level on my P3 at the 
narrowest span during evening hours after sunset. I had to invest in a 
BC band filter to get rid of strong BC stations as well as install 
ferrites on everything here to make the beverages behave. All have 
contributed to better receiving.



Dave K1WHS


On 12/22/2018 8:20 PM, Mike Waters wrote:

Hi Wes,

Once you try a Beverage, you'll realize that those antennas weren't hearing
the weak ones that called you. ;-) See
http://www.w0btu.com/Beverage_antennas.html.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 8:05 AM Wes Stewart  wrote:


Although licensed for 60 years I'm a relative newby on topband.  (I did
work VE7
in 1959 but that's another story).  I decided to semi-seriously take up
the band
to acquire my 9th DXCC band award.

As I've described before, pardon the redundancy, I worked my first 70
entities
using an inverted-vee dipole with the apex at about 45 feet and the ends
down
around six feet.  Of course conventional wisdom says that this couldn't
possibly
work for anything but local contacts.  A year ago, I replaced the dipole
with an
inverted-L, 55 feet vertical, the rest horizontal, over a skimpy radial
field of
about (so far) 20 insulated radials each 55 feet long laying on the desert
dirt.  I both transmit and receive on this antenna, as I did the dipole
before
it.  I've since worked 40+ stations, completing DXCC plus a few.

Perhaps I'm blessed with a relatively quiet location, although unlike 

Re: Topband: Updated Beverage antenna notes

[David Olean]

I would echo the comments about running an RG-6 feedline across a radial 
field. I picked up huge amounts of common mode noise that got into 
everything. (even other beverage wires!) I had to move the feedline to 
cure it.  Ferrites were not effective by simply decoupling each end of 
the feedline.


Dave K1WHS

On 12/22/2018 8:10 PM, Mike Waters wrote:

Well-written, Bruce! :-)

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 12:14 PM F Z_Bruce  wrote:


https://www.qsl.net/k1fz/beverage_antenna.html

73
Bruce-k1fz
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Re: Topband: Inverted L improvement question

[Wes Stewart]

I just drove down to the local convenience store and bought some Powerball 
tickets.  If I win, there's a nice 80 acre parcel across the street from me that 
I would buy.  Until then, I'm stuck on a 1.7 acre plot with no room for beverages.


Wes  N7WS

On 12/22/2018 1:20 PM, Mike Waters wrote:

Hi Wes,

Once you try a Beverage, you'll realize that those antennas weren't hearing 
the weak ones that called you. ;-) See

http://www.w0btu.com/Beverage_antennas.html.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com 


_
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Topband: One Week until The Stew Perry Top Band DX Challenge!

[Lew Sayre]

Greetings Top Band Insomniacs, RF Maniacs and Low Band Lovers,
 It is slightly less than one week until the starting gong for The Stew
Perry Top Band DX Challenge sponsored by The Boring Amateur Radio
Club.  Be sure to set aside up to 14 hours to participate in the best 160M
CW contest in our solar system Dec. 29/30. Please go read the rules:
http://www.kkn.net/stew/ Where else can
you spend an enjoyable
evening exchanging grid squares with 160M enthusiasts worldwide?
 Certain aspects of The Stew competition will be recognized by beautiful
plaques. Those special categories are sponsored by Radio Stalwarts as
noted below.  You can join this stellar group by sponsoring a plaque also.
Simply email me at my address listed at the end of this epistle for
information.

KL7RATop # QSOs, S/O
EI2CN  W/K/N/VE/XE station with most QSOs with EI/British Isles
N9TFTop Score QRP, from RF deprived Grids EN00 through EN79
N9TFTop # Grids NA,S/O,QRP non-resonant antenna <40' above
  ground
N9TF Top Score USA,S/O,L/P-multi trap vertical, non-resonant on
  160M   no matching device for 160 on or at antenna, tuner in shack
 OK.
UX1UA   Top # SA + NA QSOs by Zone 16 Station
UX1UA   Top # QSOs with Zone 16 by NA Station
K7CA  Top Score Zone 22
K7CA  Top Score Zone 24

W2GD Team   Top # QSOs wid NA/SA by EU Station
KH6LCTop Score From VK or ZL
K1EP   Top Score by Op 21 y/o or less
K2PO   Top Score, S/O, Low Power, Zone 3
K5WA   Top # Grids using minimally directional antennas-
  (random wire, inverted V or Loop, etc.)
K5WATop # Grids 100 watts or less
N7GP Top # NA Grids worked from Zone 25
VE9AA   Top Score 100w Mobile- (vehicle,radio, antenna all
  capable of actual highway travel. No need to sign /M)
WA6CDR N5IA Memorial- Top # Grids Worked
NQ6N   Highest score by Station working other Stations
who are running 100 watts or less
EI4HQ Top Score, S/O, QRP
K6ND   K6SE Memorial- Top Score, S/O, World
W7RH  Top Score Asia, Low Power (100W or less)
K7FLTop Score 100% S & P
KR2Q   Golden Log- Highest # QSOs with no busts
VK6GX Heroic Tropical QRN Fighters- (Top Score +/- 15 deg
  of equator)
K2AVMaster of The Small Lot- (Top Score from property
 containing all antennas =/< 1/4 acre, 1012 meters square, 10890 sq ft)

VK6VZ   A Flying Doctors of VK Baseball cap for Top Score- Northern
Hemisphere  Station working Southern Hemisphere Stations.

 The Reflectors note excellent DX is afoot. Very long distance contacts
are
being completed on 160M. The weather is perfect for  this with blizzards,
floods,
windstorms, tornados and ice. So find a break in whatever nasty weather you
have
and get your system spiffed for next weekend.. The further away your QSO
partner
is at, the more points you get for that contact. What a concept!
 This year get your log in early and please specify in your comments
any
plaque that you might want to win. The Boring Amateur Radio Club has many
talents but mind reading is not one of those talents.  Even if you only
make 3 QSOs
please submit a log. You might win a plaque and you'll also have your call
on the
same list as the best 160M stations in the world.
 There will be one or two more Stew Perry TopBand DX Challenge
exhortations
to the 160M faithful, listing the available plaques.
73 and I remain,
Lew  w7ew
Boring Amateur Radio Club Committee on Nocturnal Radio
w...@arrl.net
_
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Re: Topband: choke/bleeder resistor on RXvertical?

[Mike Waters]

Precisely, Peter! There was no DC path to ground on my inverted-L, because
the tuner at the base was just two or three capacitors.

A spark gap across the resistor will also discharge surge voltages from
nearby lightning strikes. The tips of my homebrew shunt spark gap melted
more than once from that. And that's why I use Ohmite Type OY resistors for
that.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 10:55 AM Peter Bertini 
wrote:

> A drain resistor would be advisable if there is no DC return path to
> earth... if there is no inductor or resistance between the antenna and
> earth it can develop wind or snow induced static voltage buildup, which can
> lead to discharges that will cause noise in the receiver. Static voltages
> can also damage any inline preamps between the vertical and receiver.
>
_
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Re: Topband: JAs on TopBand

[Sam Josuweit]

I was going to get up early today. Kicking myself...

Sam (N3XZ)

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mark
K3MSB
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 11:57 AM
To: topBand List
Subject: Topband: JAs on TopBand

This morning was surreal.

I couldn't sleep so I got up around 0900Z, had a cup of coffee, read for a
while, then went down to the shack.  I worked 3D2AG on 80M CW and was
listening to him put in a very nice signal to the east coast while I did
some email correspondence.  I QSY'd to 160M around 1145Z.

I worked JH1HDT, JA7BXS, and JA0MVW between 1202Z and 1216Z. 3 JA's!!!
Wow!!!

My SR is around 0723Z.  I figured what the heck, parked on 1823 and called
CQ DX.  This is where it gets surreal.  I worked JH7PFD, JO1WXO,
JH2FXK, and JA2ZL between 1222 and 1234Z -- They called me!  I had to dig
to get some of them, but we made it.

I was going to shut down and noticed BG2AUE was spotted on 80M.  I went to
80M and oh my God I'm hearing him.   Coffee flying,  I quickly
changed feedlines and turned the linear so the knobs would match my red
electrical tape marks.  Squirted some RF  He was 20 KHz down from where
I had worked 3D2AG and the SWR was higher than I'd like. but 3500Z are
forgiving so more RF was squirted.He came back to me!  Well, I'm pretty
sure he did as he was weak as water,  when I worked him at 1259Z, which is
my SR + 35 minutes or so.  I have an email out to him and I am checking
LoTW periodically well,  more than periodically..

I'm waiting for Rod Serling to walk around the corner.. "Here we have
one Mark K3MSB, an unknowing visitor to the Twilight Zone..."

Days like this are what make all the days upon days of crappy propagation
worth it!   As my TopBand Elmer Glenn K3SWZ always tells me -- "you have to
put in the seat time and be there when "it" happens. "

73 Mark K3MSB
_
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Re: Topband: Inverted L improvement question

[Mike Waters]

Hi Wes,

Once you try a Beverage, you'll realize that those antennas weren't hearing
the weak ones that called you. ;-) See
http://www.w0btu.com/Beverage_antennas.html.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 8:05 AM Wes Stewart  wrote:

> Although licensed for 60 years I'm a relative newby on topband.  (I did
> work VE7
> in 1959 but that's another story).  I decided to semi-seriously take up
> the band
> to acquire my 9th DXCC band award.
>
> As I've described before, pardon the redundancy, I worked my first 70
> entities
> using an inverted-vee dipole with the apex at about 45 feet and the ends
> down
> around six feet.  Of course conventional wisdom says that this couldn't
> possibly
> work for anything but local contacts.  A year ago, I replaced the dipole
> with an
> inverted-L, 55 feet vertical, the rest horizontal, over a skimpy radial
> field of
> about (so far) 20 insulated radials each 55 feet long laying on the desert
> dirt.  I both transmit and receive on this antenna, as I did the dipole
> before
> it.  I've since worked 40+ stations, completing DXCC plus a few.
>
> Perhaps I'm blessed with a relatively quiet location, although unlike some
> I'm
> not miles from civilization, but not in a subdivision either.  I have made
> zero
> effort to silence noise sources in my house, but do work with the local
> co-op
> power utility to silence obvious noise sources. (Their sleuth is a ham)
> Although I'm considering an RX-only antenna, and it might be eyeopening,
> I'm not
> yet convinced of that.  Anything I would use on RX would probably have a
> broad
> peak and get its noise rejection from the rear.
>
> Examining where most of the unworked DX is from here (EU, ME and central
> AS) the
> paths are mostly over the (noisy) continental land mass of NA (and the
> polar
> region) at my SS or early evening.  The null of any RX antenna pointing at
> these
> areas would be looking at the sunlit Pacific Ocean.  At my SR, the
> converse
> would be true.
>
> So all things considered, using only 500W (10dB too few according to one
> of my
> friends), I already hear as well as I'm heard.  My bigger obstacle is QRM
> from
> the east. Nevertheless, I'm willing to try an RX antenna, if I can be
> convinced
> it will be of benefit, so I'm open to suggestions.
>
> Wes   N7WS
>
>
>
>
> On 12/19/2018 7:13 AM, Rob Atkinson wrote:
> > If your inverted L is any good at all it will suck as a receiving
> > antenna.  This is one of the key things to accept about medium wave
> > but many casual 160 m. operators can't wrap their heads around it.   A
> > flame throwing tx antenna will probably have a completely unacceptable
> > noise level on receive.  Tx/rx reciprocity works on HF but not as well
> > on medum wave.   Separate rx antenna(s) are mandatory.A
> > significant irritant on 160 are the operators with poor antennas that
> > hear great, therefore they expect to be heard equally well, and can't
> > be made to believe they are piss weak when they transmit.
> >
> > Rob
> > K5UJ
>
>
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Updated Beverage antenna notes

[Mike Waters]

Well-written, Bruce! :-)

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Sat, Dec 22, 2018, 12:14 PM F Z_Bruce  wrote:

> https://www.qsl.net/k1fz/beverage_antenna.html
>
> 73
> Bruce-k1fz
> _
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
>
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Re: Topband: FT8 - How it really works

[James M. Roop]

Jerry,
If you would like to do some mid-day comparison testing between FT8 and CW,
let me know.  Looks like the path length is about 400 miles.

Jim,
K9SE


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Re: Topband: FT8 - How it really works

[K4SAV]

Still doing FT8 testing this morning 3 hours after sunrise I looked for 
something resembling dead band conditions with only a few weak stations. 
There was nothing on 160 but the west coast guys were still on 80.  They 
were weak but there.  They would have been good copy on CW but FT8 was 
having much difficulty.  It was getting only about one decode every 5 
minutes or so. Never got a decode of someone sending CQ so that I could 
see what FT8 was calculating for a report.  This was on my receiving 
antenna.  I couldn't hear them on the transmit antenna and FT8 never 
decoded anything on that antenna.


Based on my tests of mixing noise into the audio and seeing FT8 decode 
below the noise floor, I really expected to see better performance from 
FT8, but it didn't happen.  The dead band test yesterday didn't bode 
well for FT8 either.


I think for the test yesterday when mixing in audio noise to cover up 
the signals, I had FT8 in deep decode mode.  I wonder if those decodes 
were just guesses because it knew which stations were on which 
frequencies before I added that noise.  This deserves a retest.


So I did a retest.  This time I set up the noise such that I could just 
barely hear the FT8 signals.  I did that before I let WSJTX hear the 
band, and I set it to decode normally.  It didn't do nearly as well.  
There weren't many decodes and the signals were being reported in the 
range -12 to -17 dB.  There were no -24 dB reports like the last test. 
where they were all -24 dB  I changed the mode to deep decode and let 
WSJTX look at the band for a while.  Then I added the noise back.  Now 
there are many more decodes and the reported numbers were much lower.  
Hmm.  Guesses?


I think I have concluded my FT8 testing.  My curiosity of how this works 
is sufficiently satisfied.  Others can form their opinions from this 
data, their own tests, or from whatever source they desire.


Thanks to others that showed some interest in this experiment.

Now that I am feeling better, hope to be up early enough to work some of 
that early morning DX that I have been missing and all you other guys 
have been getting.  (CW of course)


Jerry, K4SAV


On 12/21/2018 5:11 PM, K4SAV wrote:


Yesterday I said  " I don't have a measurement with the results of 
that showdown of CW versus FT8 in dead band conditions but the answer 
would be interesting to know."


This afternoon I tried to get an answer to that.  I wanted to see if 
FT8 would decode a station I couldn't hear.  I wanted to find that 
happen and then switch to narrow band CW and see if I could hear him. 
I first went to 6 meters but there was nothing there. Then I went to 
160 and nothing there. I waited until it was sunset in the northeast.  
As soon as that happens the band fills up with stations from that 
area.  It's not dark here but the S meter immediately goes to S9 plus.


NEWS FLASH for those guys.  You can work stations at any time on 160.  
You don't have to wait until dark.  High power, CW, and a good 
receiving antenna is good for about 600-800 miles on 160 at noon. Low 
power should also be good but at a little less distance.  Don't know 
what FT8 will do to the distance.


All those stations were defeating my test to find a condition close to 
that of a dead band and a weak signal or two.  So I switched to my 
receiving antenna and pointed it west to reduce signal amplitudes and 
still have some noise.


I can still hear a bunch of signals in there but FT8 isn't decoding 
anything with the antenna pointed west.  There seems to be some high 
level static when pointed west.  It's not noticeable on CW but it 
sounds bad on USB.  Maybe that is causing FT8 to not decode anything.


So I consider this test pretty much unsuccessful.  If anyone else runs 
a similar test please post the results.  I will try again.  I know 
this isn't a top priority question for most people, but curiosity gets 
to me sometimes.


Jerry, K4SAV
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Topband: Updated Beverage antenna notes

[F Z_Bruce]

https://www.qsl.net/k1fz/beverage_antenna.html

73
Bruce-k1fz
_
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Re: Topband: JAs on TopBand

[w1tc]

Hi Mark,

Congrats!

I got up with the dog at 4:30 then took a listen.  RW0CR and RA0FF (both zone 
19)had good signals on 160 FT8.  I worked Alex RW0CR.

Then caught Harry, JD1BMH, at my sunrise on 80 FT8.

Then switched to 160 cw and heard the JA’s.  Worked 3.   Big pile on JA0MVW on 
1824.5 for some reason.   Completely forgot to call CQ myself. Band was quiet 
and the JA’s were perfectly readable.

I had a day like this last feb, where I worked 6 JA’s and Kim HL5IVL.

According to legend, band will be awful tomorrow.

73 All
Tom W1TC



On 12/22/2018 11:57 AM, Mark K3MSB wrote:

This morning was surreal.

I couldn't sleep so I got up around 0900Z, had a cup of coffee, read for a
while, then went down to the shack.  I worked 3D2AG on 80M CW and was
listening to him put in a very nice signal to the east coast while I did
some email correspondence.  I QSY'd to 160M around 1145Z.

I worked JH1HDT, JA7BXS, and JA0MVW between 1202Z and 1216Z. 3 JA's!!!
Wow!!!

My SR is around 0723Z.  I figured what the heck, parked on 1823 and called
CQ DX.  This is where it gets surreal.  I worked JH7PFD, JO1WXO,
JH2FXK, and JA2ZL between 1222 and 1234Z -- They called me!  I had to dig
to get some of them, but we made it.

I was going to shut down and noticed BG2AUE was spotted on 80M.  I went to
80M and oh my God I'm hearing him.   Coffee flying,  I quickly
changed feedlines and turned the linear so the knobs would match my red
electrical tape marks.  Squirted some RF  He was 20 KHz down from where
I had worked 3D2AG and the SWR was higher than I'd like. but 3500Z are
forgiving so more RF was squirted.He came back to me!  Well, I'm pretty
sure he did as he was weak as water,  when I worked him at 1259Z, which is
my SR + 35 minutes or so.  I have an email out to him and I am checking
LoTW periodically well,  more than periodically..

I'm waiting for Rod Serling to walk around the corner.. "Here we have
one Mark K3MSB, an unknowing visitor to the Twilight Zone..."

Days like this are what make all the days upon days of crappy propagation
worth it!   As my TopBand Elmer Glenn K3SWZ always tells me -- "you have to
put in the seat time and be there when "it" happens. "

73 Mark K3MSB
_
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Re: Topband: JAs on TopBand

[K9FD]

JA here at sunrise were 599,  but by that time not many around,  heard 
some weak
UA4,  RA9 etc,  but not much activity,    Saw strong signal up in the 
FT-8 band and
did not bother to tune up there,  30 mins after sunrise it was still 
there so out of
curiosity I turned on FT-8 and there was A41ZZ calling cq.   we 
exchanged rerports
he peaked -0 almost 40 mins after sunrise.   The band is open,  no one 
there on

any mode it appeared.
Worked VU2 on a few days ago, he peaked at sunrise, but I could copy him 
for another

45 minutes as well.
I was here in 2008 time frame and looks like we are returning to those 
good days again

soon.
73  Merv  K9FD   Molokai Island Hawaii.


I worked three (3) JA's here in Atlanta this morning.. It was actually 
better after sunrise... I received a 579 from JH2FXK at 1257 Z..


They were rolling in from the NW on the Hi-Z 8

73,

John, W4NU

On 12/22/2018 11:57 AM, Mark K3MSB wrote:

This morning was surreal.

I couldn't sleep so I got up around 0900Z, had a cup of coffee, read 
for a

while, then went down to the shack.  I worked 3D2AG on 80M CW and was
listening to him put in a very nice signal to the east coast while I did
some email correspondence.  I QSY'd to 160M around 1145Z.

I worked JH1HDT, JA7BXS, and JA0MVW between 1202Z and 1216Z. 3 JA's!!!
Wow!!!

My SR is around 0723Z.  I figured what the heck, parked on 1823 and 
called

CQ DX.  This is where it gets surreal.  I worked JH7PFD, JO1WXO,
JH2FXK, and JA2ZL between 1222 and 1234Z -- They called me!  I had to 
dig

to get some of them, but we made it.

I was going to shut down and noticed BG2AUE was spotted on 80M. I 
went to

80M and oh my God I'm hearing him.   Coffee flying,  I quickly
changed feedlines and turned the linear so the knobs would match my red
electrical tape marks.  Squirted some RF  He was 20 KHz down from 
where
I had worked 3D2AG and the SWR was higher than I'd like. but 
3500Z are
forgiving so more RF was squirted.    He came back to me!  Well, I'm 
pretty
sure he did as he was weak as water,  when I worked him at 1259Z, 
which is

my SR + 35 minutes or so.  I have an email out to him and I am checking
LoTW periodically well,  more than periodically..

I'm waiting for Rod Serling to walk around the corner.. "Here we 
have

one Mark K3MSB, an unknowing visitor to the Twilight Zone..."

Days like this are what make all the days upon days of crappy 
propagation
worth it!   As my TopBand Elmer Glenn K3SWZ always tells me -- "you 
have to

put in the seat time and be there when "it" happens. "

73 Mark K3MSB
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Re: Topband: JAs on TopBand

[rgarrett5]

Hi Mark,

Working JA on TB never gets old.  

I got up about 11:20Z, messed around with making a big breakfast and finally
sat down in front of the rig at 12:15Z, about 9 minutes before SR.  Wow,
JA0MVW was way loud.  I worked him followed by JA7BXS, JH1HDT, JA3MIX,
JR1ELZ I believe, don't have the log in front of me and finally at 12:45Z,
JH2FXK.  I received 569 to 589 from all of the stations but FXK who gave me
559.  

As was stated before, this band even after 30 plus years is still so
fascinating to me.  It has been many a year since I worked JA after SR but
today it happened many times HI.  

Looking forward to K1ZM and company's visit to V84SAA in February.  73, Bob
K3UL

-Original Message-
From: Topband  On Behalf Of Mark K3MSB
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 11:57 AM
To: topBand List 
Subject: Topband: JAs on TopBand

This morning was surreal.

I couldn't sleep so I got up around 0900Z, had a cup of coffee, read for a
while, then went down to the shack.  I worked 3D2AG on 80M CW and was
listening to him put in a very nice signal to the east coast while I did
some email correspondence.  I QSY'd to 160M around 1145Z.

I worked JH1HDT, JA7BXS, and JA0MVW between 1202Z and 1216Z. 3 JA's!!!
Wow!!!

My SR is around 0723Z.  I figured what the heck, parked on 1823 and called
CQ DX.  This is where it gets surreal.  I worked JH7PFD, JO1WXO, JH2FXK,
and JA2ZL between 1222 and 1234Z -- They called me!  I had to dig to get
some of them, but we made it.

I was going to shut down and noticed BG2AUE was spotted on 80M.  I went to
80M and oh my God I'm hearing him.   Coffee flying,  I quickly
changed feedlines and turned the linear so the knobs would match my red
electrical tape marks.  Squirted some RF  He was 20 KHz down from where
I had worked 3D2AG and the SWR was higher than I'd like. but 3500Z are
forgiving so more RF was squirted.He came back to me!  Well, I'm pretty
sure he did as he was weak as water,  when I worked him at 1259Z, which is
my SR + 35 minutes or so.  I have an email out to him and I am checking LoTW
periodically well,  more than periodically..

I'm waiting for Rod Serling to walk around the corner.. "Here we have
one Mark K3MSB, an unknowing visitor to the Twilight Zone..."

Days like this are what make all the days upon days of crappy propagation
worth it!   As my TopBand Elmer Glenn K3SWZ always tells me -- "you have to
put in the seat time and be there when "it" happens. "

73 Mark K3MSB
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Re: Topband: JAs on TopBand

[John Harden, D.M.D.]

I worked three (3) JA's here in Atlanta this morning.. It was actually 
better after sunrise... I received a 579 from JH2FXK at 1257 Z..


They were rolling in from the NW on the Hi-Z 8

73,

John, W4NU

On 12/22/2018 11:57 AM, Mark K3MSB wrote:

This morning was surreal.

I couldn't sleep so I got up around 0900Z, had a cup of coffee, read for a
while, then went down to the shack.  I worked 3D2AG on 80M CW and was
listening to him put in a very nice signal to the east coast while I did
some email correspondence.  I QSY'd to 160M around 1145Z.

I worked JH1HDT, JA7BXS, and JA0MVW between 1202Z and 1216Z. 3 JA's!!!
Wow!!!

My SR is around 0723Z.  I figured what the heck, parked on 1823 and called
CQ DX.  This is where it gets surreal.  I worked JH7PFD, JO1WXO,
JH2FXK, and JA2ZL between 1222 and 1234Z -- They called me!  I had to dig
to get some of them, but we made it.

I was going to shut down and noticed BG2AUE was spotted on 80M.  I went to
80M and oh my God I'm hearing him.   Coffee flying,  I quickly
changed feedlines and turned the linear so the knobs would match my red
electrical tape marks.  Squirted some RF  He was 20 KHz down from where
I had worked 3D2AG and the SWR was higher than I'd like. but 3500Z are
forgiving so more RF was squirted.He came back to me!  Well, I'm pretty
sure he did as he was weak as water,  when I worked him at 1259Z, which is
my SR + 35 minutes or so.  I have an email out to him and I am checking
LoTW periodically well,  more than periodically..

I'm waiting for Rod Serling to walk around the corner.. "Here we have
one Mark K3MSB, an unknowing visitor to the Twilight Zone..."

Days like this are what make all the days upon days of crappy propagation
worth it!   As my TopBand Elmer Glenn K3SWZ always tells me -- "you have to
put in the seat time and be there when "it" happens. "

73 Mark K3MSB
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Re: Topband: JAs on TopBand

[David Olean]

Hello Mark,

Glad you caught it! That is a wonderful day for the northeast! I was up 
at 1115UT this AM,  as the dog wanted to go out, and I pondered whether 
to trudge out to my barn and get on 160. I had been up until 1 AM re 
working an old 75A4 and a PTO and was exhausted. I decided to go back to 
bed. Darn!  I had a similar experience about a week or so ago. I worked 
8 JAs in the morning. I was on cloud 9 all day. Like you, I was pulling 
out weak signals. At other times I have noticed that the JA and UA0 
signals might be louder but they don't hear me. Must be a polarization 
thing!


Congratulations to you, and raspberries for me as I went back to bed!

Dave K1WHS

On 12/22/2018 4:57 PM, Mark K3MSB wrote:

This morning was surreal.

I couldn't sleep so I got up around 0900Z, had a cup of coffee, read for a
while, then went down to the shack.  I worked 3D2AG on 80M CW and was
listening to him put in a very nice signal to the east coast while I did
some email correspondence.  I QSY'd to 160M around 1145Z.

I worked JH1HDT, JA7BXS, and JA0MVW between 1202Z and 1216Z. 3 JA's!!!
Wow!!!

My SR is around 0723Z.  I figured what the heck, parked on 1823 and called
CQ DX.  This is where it gets surreal.  I worked JH7PFD, JO1WXO,
JH2FXK, and JA2ZL between 1222 and 1234Z -- They called me!  I had to dig
to get some of them, but we made it.

I was going to shut down and noticed BG2AUE was spotted on 80M.  I went to
80M and oh my God I'm hearing him.   Coffee flying,  I quickly
changed feedlines and turned the linear so the knobs would match my red
electrical tape marks.  Squirted some RF  He was 20 KHz down from where
I had worked 3D2AG and the SWR was higher than I'd like. but 3500Z are
forgiving so more RF was squirted.He came back to me!  Well, I'm pretty
sure he did as he was weak as water,  when I worked him at 1259Z, which is
my SR + 35 minutes or so.  I have an email out to him and I am checking
LoTW periodically well,  more than periodically..

I'm waiting for Rod Serling to walk around the corner.. "Here we have
one Mark K3MSB, an unknowing visitor to the Twilight Zone..."

Days like this are what make all the days upon days of crappy propagation
worth it!   As my TopBand Elmer Glenn K3SWZ always tells me -- "you have to
put in the seat time and be there when "it" happens. "

73 Mark K3MSB
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Topband: JAs on TopBand

[Mark K3MSB]

This morning was surreal.

I couldn't sleep so I got up around 0900Z, had a cup of coffee, read for a
while, then went down to the shack.  I worked 3D2AG on 80M CW and was
listening to him put in a very nice signal to the east coast while I did
some email correspondence.  I QSY'd to 160M around 1145Z.

I worked JH1HDT, JA7BXS, and JA0MVW between 1202Z and 1216Z. 3 JA's!!!
Wow!!!

My SR is around 0723Z.  I figured what the heck, parked on 1823 and called
CQ DX.  This is where it gets surreal.  I worked JH7PFD, JO1WXO,
JH2FXK, and JA2ZL between 1222 and 1234Z -- They called me!  I had to dig
to get some of them, but we made it.

I was going to shut down and noticed BG2AUE was spotted on 80M.  I went to
80M and oh my God I'm hearing him.   Coffee flying,  I quickly
changed feedlines and turned the linear so the knobs would match my red
electrical tape marks.  Squirted some RF  He was 20 KHz down from where
I had worked 3D2AG and the SWR was higher than I'd like. but 3500Z are
forgiving so more RF was squirted.He came back to me!  Well, I'm pretty
sure he did as he was weak as water,  when I worked him at 1259Z, which is
my SR + 35 minutes or so.  I have an email out to him and I am checking
LoTW periodically well,  more than periodically..

I'm waiting for Rod Serling to walk around the corner.. "Here we have
one Mark K3MSB, an unknowing visitor to the Twilight Zone..."

Days like this are what make all the days upon days of crappy propagation
worth it!   As my TopBand Elmer Glenn K3SWZ always tells me -- "you have to
put in the seat time and be there when "it" happens. "

73 Mark K3MSB
_
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Re: Topband: choke/bleeder resistor on RXvertical?

[Peter Bertini]

A drain resistor would be advisable if there is no DC return path to
earth... if there is no inductor or resistance between the antenna and
earth it can develop wind or snow induced static voltage buildup, which can
lead to discharges that will cause noise in the receiver. Static voltages
can also damage any inline preamps between the vertical and receiver.

Pete
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Re: Topband: capacity needed for Detuning tower

[n4is]

Terry

My tower  is 116 high , plus 10 ft of mast with a top hat, and the HWF. I
never had any  problem on 80m because the antenna is too long and near 1/2
wave vertical for 80m, my Vertical WF is 60 ft from the tower and I never
noticed any degradation on the irradiation diagram measured with polar plot.

My friend Peter N8PR used to have the K8UR  four square for 80.. It worked
very well on 80m, however the dipole side connected to the coaxial braid,
connected to the phase box than connected to another  coaxial and the other
dipole connected to the braid, all this connected forms a 1/2 wave on 160m.
Peter antenna on 160m is very similar to my but his signal was always 10 db
lower than my  on 160m, the 1/2 wave formed by the 80m dipoles was changing
the irradiation patter on 160m, simulating on EZNEC we found that the signal
was going up and not low angle as it should be on 160m. Peter disconnected
the 80 dipoles from the phasing box and immediately his 160m signal become
very similar to my signal on all RBNs that we were able to check.

Saying that,  John K9UWA detuned his tower and his 4  square improved a lot.
The way to find the capacitor value is  using a small variable capacitor in
series with a MFJ 259, adjust the capacitor for zero ohms reactance on the
MFJ meter.

Luis IV3PRK has on his site a detailed description how to detune the tower
using antenna analyzers, here 

http://www.iv3prk.it/detuning-tx-ant..htm

http://www.iv3prk.it/user/image/site2-rxant.prk_detuning-tower.pdf

73's
JC
N4IS

-Original Message-
From: Topband  On Behalf Of John Kaufmann
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2018 7:12 AM
To: 'terry burge' ; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: capacity needed for Deturning tower

On 160 I've used a vertical wire of 20 feet with a 1000 pF variable
capacitor to detune a tower at its base.  You can scale that to 80.

73, John W1FV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of terry
burge
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 9:22 PM
To: topband@contesting.com; terry burge
Subject: Topband: capacity needed for Deturning tower

Hi again,


This may not be possible to answer with anything like 10% accuracy but can
someone give me an idea just how much capacitance I need for putting up a
50-55' vertical wire up the lower half of my tower to detune it on 75 meters
around the DX windown (3790-3800 Khz). The tower is Rohn 55 with 117' above
ground. A 3 element 20-6 mtr Steppir at 118', a GP6 at the very top with
peak at 134' and a 40 meter dipole (63' or so) at 104'. I have my K8UR style
4-Square around the tower with the lower half of the slopers pulled in
towards the tower. 


Since I've not been able to get a beverage or bog to work due to a lot of
noise I'm going to run a detuning line up to below my Comtek unit at 64' and
try detuning the tower. But I just don't know what to expect to need for
capacitance to detune the tower. 


Terry

KI7M

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Re: Topband: Inverted L improvement question

[Wes Stewart]

Although licensed for 60 years I'm a relative newby on topband.  (I did work VE7 
in 1959 but that's another story).  I decided to semi-seriously take up the band 
to acquire my 9th DXCC band award.


As I've described before, pardon the redundancy, I worked my first 70 entities 
using an inverted-vee dipole with the apex at about 45 feet and the ends down 
around six feet.  Of course conventional wisdom says that this couldn't possibly 
work for anything but local contacts.  A year ago, I replaced the dipole with an 
inverted-L, 55 feet vertical, the rest horizontal, over a skimpy radial field of 
about (so far) 20 insulated radials each 55 feet long laying on the desert 
dirt.  I both transmit and receive on this antenna, as I did the dipole before 
it.  I've since worked 40+ stations, completing DXCC plus a few.


Perhaps I'm blessed with a relatively quiet location, although unlike some I'm 
not miles from civilization, but not in a subdivision either.  I have made zero 
effort to silence noise sources in my house, but do work with the local co-op 
power utility to silence obvious noise sources. (Their sleuth is a ham)   
Although I'm considering an RX-only antenna, and it might be eyeopening, I'm not 
yet convinced of that.  Anything I would use on RX would probably have a broad 
peak and get its noise rejection from the rear.


Examining where most of the unworked DX is from here (EU, ME and central AS) the 
paths are mostly over the (noisy) continental land mass of NA (and the polar 
region) at my SS or early evening.  The null of any RX antenna pointing at these 
areas would be looking at the sunlit Pacific Ocean.  At my SR, the converse 
would be true.


So all things considered, using only 500W (10dB too few according to one of my 
friends), I already hear as well as I'm heard.  My bigger obstacle is QRM from 
the east. Nevertheless, I'm willing to try an RX antenna, if I can be convinced 
it will be of benefit, so I'm open to suggestions.


Wes   N7WS




On 12/19/2018 7:13 AM, Rob Atkinson wrote:

If your inverted L is any good at all it will suck as a receiving
antenna.  This is one of the key things to accept about medium wave
but many casual 160 m. operators can't wrap their heads around it.   A
flame throwing tx antenna will probably have a completely unacceptable
noise level on receive.  Tx/rx reciprocity works on HF but not as well
on medum wave.   Separate rx antenna(s) are mandatory.A
significant irritant on 160 are the operators with poor antennas that
hear great, therefore they expect to be heard equally well, and can't
be made to believe they are piss weak when they transmit.

Rob
K5UJ
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Re: Topband: capacity needed for Deturning tower

[John Kaufmann]

On 160 I've used a vertical wire of 20 feet with a 1000 pF variable
capacitor to detune a tower at its base.  You can scale that to 80.

73, John W1FV

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of terry
burge
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2018 9:22 PM
To: topband@contesting.com; terry burge
Subject: Topband: capacity needed for Deturning tower

Hi again,


This may not be possible to answer with anything like 10% accuracy but can
someone give me an idea just how much capacitance I need for putting up a
50-55' vertical wire up the lower half of my tower to detune it on 75 meters
around the DX windown (3790-3800 Khz). The tower is Rohn 55 with 117' above
ground. A 3 element 20-6 mtr Steppir at 118', a GP6 at the very top with
peak at 134' and a 40 meter dipole (63' or so) at 104'. I have my K8UR style
4-Square around the tower with the lower half of the slopers pulled in
towards the tower. 


Since I've not been able to get a beverage or bog to work due to a lot of
noise I'm going to run a detuning line up to below my Comtek unit at 64' and
try detuning the tower. But I just don't know what to expect to need for
capacitance to detune the tower. 


Terry

KI7M

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