Re: Topband: NA activity + Inv-L corner insulator

[Jim Brown]

On 9/25/2021 7:19 PM, Pete Smith N4ZR wrote:
Re the Flexweave, I didn't recognize the name so I googled it, and who 
knew...?  It sounds like it might work very well for the whole inverted 
L, and these days it's not appreciably more expensive than #14 THHN.


I don't recommend it. I bought several varieties of it when I got back 
on the air in 2003 and rigged several wires using it. So did neighbor 
K9IKZ. Within a year, all were on the ground.


I'm a big fan of solid copper, #14 to #9, depending mainly on the 
stress. Those of my antennas having the greatest mechanical stress are 
#8 bare copper, stretched (between trailer hitch and trunk of big 
redwood) until it breaks, making it approximate #9 hard drawn. FD wires 
are #14.


And soldered connections are a big no-no. W6GJB and I use multiple split 
bolts.


73, Jim K9YC
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: NA activity + Inv-L corner insulator

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

I had to laugh - I'm sure that the couple of box wrenches I lost in the 
trees behind my townhouse in Reston, VA are still there - or if not, do 
you suppose people thought they grew there somehow?


Re the Flexweave, I didn't recognize the name so I googled it, and who 
knew...?  It sounds like it might work very well for the whole inverted 
L, and these days it's not appreciably more expensive than #14 THHN.


I got a very nice-looking pulley from Amazon 
(https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GWLH7WS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) 
for $13, which is made of 304 stainless with a nylon sheave which has a 
very large and deep groove.  It's hard to imagine a scenario where the 
rope will hop out of this sheave.


73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the new Reverse Beacon Network
web server at .
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 9/25/2021 7:32 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:

In the pulley snag conundrum, I found that the small marine grade stainless
steel, ball bearing pulleys would handle the black sheathed 3/16 in
parachute cord style rope and never a snag. They also pull very easy as the
bearing never freezes up from exposure to merely (vs. salt) water.

I also have a pair of insulators at the bend, one to the vertical wire,
another to the horizontal wire with a loop of "Flexweave" wire from the
horizontal to the vertical. That way in the wind there is no way for the
forces to be flexing a hard connection from the vertical to the horizontal.
After 2 or 3 (or was it 7 or 8) failures at this point with wires on the
ground it finally dawned on me that the wind constantly varied the angle
between the two wires, and fatigue at the joint was inevitable and
frequent.

YMMV but I'll never again have a "hard joint" at that point. I started this
in 2010, and have gone 11 years without the L coming down for that (one
dumb rope thing, though).

73, and long in the future may your heirs have to figure out how to get it
down out of the trees.

Guy K2AV

On Sat, Sep 25, 2021 at 4:23 PM  wrote:


. Here in Ohio we are still having moderate QRN especially in the
evenings. When I get on at our SR, the VK/ZL boys are often coming
through fairly well with much less QRN.

My INV-L has a ceramic insulator at the apex, which is held in place
by 3/16" black synthetic rope of some kind ( Home Depot source) thrown
over my 52 ft tall black walnut tree tied off to another tree. I dont
use pullies since so often the rope slips off the roller and into the
crack between the roller and the U-bracket. So I just tied a rope to
the other side of the insulator and hoist.


_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
Reflector


_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: NA activity + Inv-L corner insulator

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

In the pulley snag conundrum, I found that the small marine grade stainless
steel, ball bearing pulleys would handle the black sheathed 3/16 in
parachute cord style rope and never a snag. They also pull very easy as the
bearing never freezes up from exposure to merely (vs. salt) water.

I also have a pair of insulators at the bend, one to the vertical wire,
another to the horizontal wire with a loop of "Flexweave" wire from the
horizontal to the vertical. That way in the wind there is no way for the
forces to be flexing a hard connection from the vertical to the horizontal.
After 2 or 3 (or was it 7 or 8) failures at this point with wires on the
ground it finally dawned on me that the wind constantly varied the angle
between the two wires, and fatigue at the joint was inevitable and
frequent.

YMMV but I'll never again have a "hard joint" at that point. I started this
in 2010, and have gone 11 years without the L coming down for that (one
dumb rope thing, though).

73, and long in the future may your heirs have to figure out how to get it
down out of the trees.

Guy K2AV

On Sat, Sep 25, 2021 at 4:23 PM  wrote:

> . Here in Ohio we are still having moderate QRN especially in the
> evenings. When I get on at our SR, the VK/ZL boys are often coming
> through fairly well with much less QRN.
>
> My INV-L has a ceramic insulator at the apex, which is held in place
> by 3/16" black synthetic rope of some kind ( Home Depot source) thrown
> over my 52 ft tall black walnut tree tied off to another tree. I dont
> use pullies since so often the rope slips off the roller and into the
> crack between the roller and the U-bracket. So I just tied a rope to
> the other side of the insulator and hoist.
>
>
> _
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> Reflector
>
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: NA activity + Inv-L corner insulator

[Jim Brown]

On 9/25/2021 1:23 PM, w3...@roadrunner.com wrote:

I dont
use pullies since so often the rope slips off the roller and into the
crack between the roller and the U-bracket. So I just tied a rope to
the other side of the insulator and hoist.


This suggests a mismatch of pulley dimensions to rope diameter.

73, Jim K9YC
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Corner insulator of Inverted L

[Jim Brown]

On 9/25/2021 10:19 AM, Mike Smith VE9AA wrote:

For a little better access, I could've put the rope through a pulley, but
ropes tend to last longer if just going over branches around hereor so
it seems.  Ropes and wires through (cheap) pulleys tend to break them.


I've experienced exactly the opposite with wires rigged in my tall 
redwoods. Wires in these trees MUST be rigged with good pulleys and 
weights to allow for trees swaying in the wind -- without that, the 
first good wind will put those wires on the ground. My wires are rigged 
with the support rope tied down on one end and counterweighted on the 
other by about 95# of sand in a water bucket. I experienced that failure 
about ten years ago when I didn't rig that weight soon enough after the 
tree climber rigged the antenna. The wind came within a week or so, and 
the antenna ended up on the ground. In 15 years, with 6-8 wires rigged 
with pulleys and counterweight, I've had only one of them fall in a storm.


And here, rope rigged over a branch will eventually be worn through, 
dropping the antenna to the ground. This, of course, strongly depends on 
the trees, their structural characteristics, how high the antenna is 
rigged, and so on.


73, Jim K9YC
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Topband: NA activity + Inv-L corner insulator

[W3HKK]

. Here in Ohio we are still having moderate QRN especially in the
evenings. When I get on at our SR, the VK/ZL boys are often coming
through fairly well with much less QRN.

My INV-L has a ceramic insulator at the apex, which is held in place
by 3/16" black synthetic rope of some kind ( Home Depot source) thrown
over my 52 ft tall black walnut tree tied off to another tree. I dont
use pullies since so often the rope slips off the roller and into the
crack between the roller and the U-bracket. So I just tied a rope to
the other side of the insulator and hoist. 


_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Corner insulator of Inverted L

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

Thanks everyone who replied - I think I have a handle on it now

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the new Reverse Beacon Network
web server at .
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.




On 9/25/2021 9:32 AM, Pete Smith N4ZR wrote:
I'm in the process of putting my inverted L back up, and have a 
construction question - how do you position and attach the corner 
insulator?  My support for the vertical section is an old maple, 
plenty tall but only really reachable with a pull-up rope by firing a 
tennis-ball gun over it.  The first time I put this up, I used a 
pulley with a deep insulated sleeve and passed the inverted L wire 
through the pulley.  Neat, it seemed - the corner was automatically 
positioned to keep the vertical portion the right length. 
Unfortunately, over a year or so, the antenna wire flexing over the  
pulley caused it to break, so this time around I'd like to use a rope 
through the pulley and an insulator at the corner. Question is how 
best to do it, to minimize strain on the antenna wire, making it more 
durable.



.

_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Corner insulator of Inverted L

[Mike Smith VE9AA]

I'm not sure if this is the right way Pete, but my "corner insulator" on one
of my 160m inverted L's is a 1/2" x 90* grey electrical type of PVC elbow
that I bent using a heat gun.  You could also buy them premade at home depot
or whatever.

I threw a rope over a Maple tree and tied and taped the elbow to the rope
(center of the radius), ran my 127' of wire through the elbow and then
raised it up in the air.

For a little better access, I could've put the rope through a pulley, but
ropes tend to last longer if just going over branches around hereor so
it seems.  Ropes and wires through (cheap) pulleys tend to break them.

I don't know if I have ever seen this method used anywhere else, but I
sometimes use this on longer wires, like the 160m L.  I've never had a wire
break @ the PVC elbow yet.  Course, I do still have ropes break from time to
time.  Mother Nature is a fierce opponent.

GL

Mike VE9AA
  - - 

I'm in the process of putting my inverted L back up, and have a construction
question - how do you position and attach the corner insulator?  My support
for the vertical section is an old maple, plenty tall but only really
reachable with a pull-up rope by firing a tennis-ball gun over it.  The
first time I put this up, I used a pulley with a deep insulated sleeve and
passed the inverted L wire through the pulley.  Neat, it seemed - the corner
was automatically positioned to keep the vertical portion the right length. 
Unfortunately, over a year or so, the antenna wire flexing over the  pulley
caused it to break, so this time around I'd like to use a rope through the
pulley and an insulator at the corner.  Question is how best to do it, to
minimize strain on the antenna wire, making it more durable.

--
73, Pete N4ZR


Mike, Coreen & Corey
Keswick Ridge, NB


_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Corner insulator of Inverted L

[donovanf]

Hi Pete, 


One of the best ways to figure out how to rig antenna wires 
for long reliable life is to examine how power companies 
and trolley lines rig their wires. 


I have many 280 foot diameter quad loops with the corners 
hundreds of feet high and supported at the corners by ropes. 
The loops sometimes support hundreds of pounds of ice 
during ice storms. The loops have been installed for decades 
with no failures. 


I use two small thimbles, one that supports the vertical wire 
and one that supports the horizontal wire, with a short slack 
wire section between them. A small shackle mechanically 
joins the insulator to the two thimbles. 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 

- Original Message -

From: "Pete Smith N4ZR"  
To: "topband reflector"  
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2021 1:32:26 PM 
Subject: Topband: Corner insulator of Inverted L 

I'm in the process of putting my inverted L back up, and have a 
construction question - how do you position and attach the corner 
insulator? My support for the vertical section is an old maple, plenty 
tall but only really reachable with a pull-up rope by firing a 
tennis-ball gun over it. The first time I put this up, I used a pulley 
with a deep insulated sleeve and passed the inverted L wire through the 
pulley. Neat, it seemed - the corner was automatically positioned to 
keep the vertical portion the right length. Unfortunately, over a year 
or so, the antenna wire flexing over the pulley caused it to break, so 
this time around I'd like to use a rope through the pulley and an 
insulator at the corner. Question is how best to do it, to minimize 
strain on the antenna wire, making it more durable. 

-- 
73, Pete N4ZR 
Check out the new Reverse Beacon Network 
web server at . 
For spots, please use your favorite 
"retail" DX cluster. 

_ 
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector 

_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Topband: North American Activity

[Roger Kennedy]

DX propagation continues to be pretty good on 160m . . . as indicated by RBN
reports, and the odd QSO.

But despite quite a lot of us Europeans coming on the band most nights,
there seems to be very little response from NA stations.

Maybe there will be more activity tonight . . .

73 Roger G3YRO


_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Topband: Corner insulator of Inverted L

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

I'm in the process of putting my inverted L back up, and have a 
construction question - how do you position and attach the corner 
insulator?  My support for the vertical section is an old maple, plenty 
tall but only really reachable with a pull-up rope by firing a 
tennis-ball gun over it.  The first time I put this up, I used a pulley 
with a deep insulated sleeve and passed the inverted L wire through the 
pulley.  Neat, it seemed - the corner was automatically positioned to 
keep the vertical portion the right length.  Unfortunately, over a year 
or so, the antenna wire flexing over the  pulley caused it to break, so 
this time around I'd like to use a rope through the pulley and an 
insulator at the corner.  Question is how best to do it, to minimize 
strain on the antenna wire, making it more durable.


--
73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the new Reverse Beacon Network
web server at .
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector