Re: Topband: ADC Overload from MW transmitters
-Original Message- From: MIKE DURKIN Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 10:47 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: ADC Overload from MW transmitters SPAM !! Mike-- Can you explain this opinion? In my experience, almost anything Tom takes the trouble to publish is well thought-out and worth reading. Your expletive puzzles me. Bill--W4BSG --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: ADC Overload from MW transmitters
Mike-- It is obvious that you do not know who Tom is. and-- the word SPAM followed by six exclamation points IS an expletive. also-- I did not put forth any opinion about ADC or SDR. Bill--W4BSG -Original Message- From: MIKE DURKIN Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 12:07 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: ADC Overload from MW transmitters If i must Tom never mentioned what type of SDR would be wiped out by moderate signals ... That in its self has three problems ... NO filtering? (should this be called -- comparing apples to apples, not apples to turds) poor ADC (real cheap soundcard 8bit)? insanely bad phase error in the nearby transmitter OR the wonderfull SDR that he built. Nearly the entire email was lamented as a setup for a flame war by simply omitting details ... that is not the actions of a good engineering radio operator ... hence ... SPAM. -- it was a showing off the effort put into the SDR i guess. And i worry about you Bill the word "SPAM" being an expletive in your vocabulary ... I think of many responses on here to ADC overload as this -- When dealing with a computer .. the quality of work/info put into it will have the same ratio that you will get out of it -- qubed. how many samples per second are true overload and i mean overload -- not phase error -- if you don't know the difference you really shouldn't put forth an opinion as truth. That video that was posted in this discussion(awhile ago) did point out the difference quite well and understandable by almost anyone .. check it out, if not again. Not sure if i should really send this .. but, what the hell. From: bayc...@mediacombb.net To: patriot...@msn.com; topband@contesting.com Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 17:41:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Topband: ADC Overload from MW transmitters -Original Message- From: MIKE DURKIN Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 10:47 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: ADC Overload from MW transmitters SPAM !! Mike-- Can you explain this opinion? In my experience, almost anything Tom takes the trouble to publish is well thought-out and worth reading. Your expletive puzzles me. Bill--W4BSG --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Modeling Ground and losses
Richard-- Is it conventional to compare the surface wave fields at a distance so near the Radial length and the wave length? 0.1 km Sounds like a lot, but it is only 100m, which is low, in Lambda terms.. Bill--W4BSG -Original Message- From: Richard Fry Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2015 12:08 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Modeling Ground and losses The feedpoint connection, in all cases of vertical antennas, whether the system is shunt fed or series fed, or even if it is an end-fed half wave, ties one feed terminal to the ground or counterpoise system. It has to be that way, and the current out into that counterpoise (whatever the counterpoise is) has to be equal to the common mode current at the junction flowing up into the radiator. The link below leads to a NEC4 comparison of a 1/4WL vertical monopole using four 1/4WL radial wires at 90-deg horizontal intervals. In one case the radials are buried. In the other case they (and the monopole) are elevated 1 meter above the earth, and not connected to the earth by any metallic path. Applied power in both cases is 100 watts, and earth conductivity in both cases is 5 mS/m, d.c.5. The surface wave fields at 0.1 km from these two configurations differ by about 1.15 dB, which means that their radiated powers differ by about 30%. If the total energy flowing into the monopole system with buried radials is dictated only by its hard-wired connection through the transmission line back to the transmitter, then what is accounting for the reduction of its radiated power? http://s20.postimg.org/453nz5vn1/160_M_QTR_WV_MONOPOLE_Flds.jpg R. Fry _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: Fw: 78th Anniversary of First Ham License
-Original Message- From: Bill Aycock Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 9:15 PM To: Paul Elliott Subject: Re: Topband: 78th Anniversary of First Ham License Paul-- To repeat a cliché', Way to go! At that time, I was 10, and had just completed the Exploration (dismantling) of my first Radio-- also an Atwater-Kent. Battery powered, with a speaker that sat on top. It had been a Trade-in at the Hardware and Furniture my Dad ran. Also in Texas. Bill--W4BSG -Original Message- From: Paul Elliott Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 7:41 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: 78th Anniversary of First Ham License Today I have the extremely good fortune to celebrate 78 years of being a licensed ham. On a day late in January 1937, in Kingsville TX, I came home from school and found a small envelope waiting for me. Inside was my license, dated January 19, 1937: operating privileges Class C, station call sign W5GGV. I was 14 years old at the time. My first rig, operating only on 40 m CW, consisted of a type 45 tube in a TNT circuit and a 2 tube receiver (regenerative detector and one stage of audio). Both were built from parts scavenged from junked Atwater Kent receivers. My key was a piece of hacksaw blade. I did not start operating on 160 m until about 20 years ago. On a 120' x 120' lot (very noisy electrically), in Hobbs, NM, I have been able to confirm 187 countries on 160 m. I am still trying to come up with some way to improve my receiving antenna situation. Age, not surprisingly, has taken its toll but has not stopped me completely. Both sending and receiving speed have decreased to about 25 wpm-can still have fun with what I have left. My thanks to all those on this reflector who have provided help and instruction to me over the years. There are some very good people on this reflector. One small historical note: I still have my original license although somewhat the worse for wear. It got thoroughly soaked in the Pacific Ocean and stained when the ship I was on in WW II was sunk by a kamikaze. 73 Paul W5DM _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Unknown Pulse Signal Wiping out 1900-1925 kHz
Bruce-- I am significantly older than you, and I do remember theloose lips slogan, but I hardly think it applies, here. For one thing, the source is not trying to hide this signal (or, is incompetent). That is the current problem. Bill--W4BSG0) -Original Message- From: k...@myfairpoint.net Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2014 1:28 PM To: mstang...@comcast.net Cc: Topband Subject: Re: Topband: Unknown Pulse Signal Wiping out 1900-1925 kHz Don't know, don't want to know. Anyone old enough to remember about loose lips, sinking ships and social media. ? 73 Bruce-K1FZ On Tue, 9 Dec 2014 18:54:25 + (UTC), mstang...@comcast.net wrote: Could it be coming for Cutler ME, the site of the Navy's VLF station? Maybe they are running tests on a some MF system. Mike N2M _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Crossed Field Antenna
WOW!! I thought that had been shot with a silver bullet, at a crossroad, and had a stake driven through its heart over ten years ago! The Flat-Earthers are still among us. Bill--W4BSG -Original Message- From: Michael St. Angelo Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 8:28 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Crossed Field Antenna It's been quiet on this group. The April 9th issue of Radio World Magazine has an article about the Crossed field Antenna. An company, Crossed Field Antennas LTD, Has filed a comment with the FCC espousing its advantages: http://apps.fcc.gov/ecfs/comment/view?id=6017582994 This should rustle you from you winter doldrums.. 73, Mike N2MS _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Verifying integrity of 75 ohm coax.
Jim-- I wish you would NOT do this. Vaseline is a Petroleum based product and has nothing to do with Lanolin, which a a natural animal based Wax. The unnecessary broadcast of errors like this make me wonder if anything you say is fact-based. Bill--W4BSG -Original Message- From: Jim GM Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 8:22 AM To: topband Subject: Re: Topband: Verifying integrity of 75 ohm coax. Vaseline will work keeps moisture out, non conductive. You can cover a lot of surface. Over years it drys out gets crusty. Vaseline is made of lanolin mostly, I believe. Neverseizes or anitseize compound found in any hardware store, Works very well drys out some but keeps working for years. buried cables with claps and wrapped with electrical tap connects look like new when taken apart. Underground cable going to house for Time Warner cable has it in inpregnanted in the shielding jacket. -- Jim K9TF _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Verifying integrity of 75 ohm coax.
Charlie-- PLEASE-- go back and read what I wrote. Please. I have no argument at all with Vaseline (Petroleum Jelly) for any use you feel comfortable with. My complaint was with the false association of Vaseline with Lanolin as if it were fact. I have no argument with Lanolin either, I use it frequently. I really object to Fatuous Statements, especially when there is no reason, and the claim that Vaseline was based on Lanolin was wrong and served no purpose. Read for comprehension next time. Bill--W4BSG -Original Message- From: n0...@juno.com Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 4:37 PM To: billayc...@centurytel.net Subject: Re: Topband: Verifying integrity of 75 ohm coax. FYI Billthe use of medical grade petroleum jelly was recommended in ON4UN's LBDXing book. That doesn't always make it right, but personally, I've been using the jelly for years to keep water out of connectors and it works very well. The tube of the jelly works great as an applicator rather than from a jar. I fill the connector completely, leaving no voids. Charlie, N0TT On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 09:41:58 -0600 Bill Aycock billayc...@centurytel.net writes: Jim-- I wish you would NOT do this. Vaseline is a Petroleum based product and has nothing to do with Lanolin, which a a natural animal based Wax. The unnecessary broadcast of errors like this make me wonder if anything you say is fact-based. Bill--W4BSG -Original Message- From: Jim GM Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 8:22 AM To: topband Subject: Re: Topband: Verifying integrity of 75 ohm coax. Vaseline will work keeps moisture out, non conductive. You can cover a lot of surface. Over years it drys out gets crusty. Vaseline is made of lanolin mostly, I believe. Neverseizes or anitseize compound found in any hardware store, Works very well drys out some but keeps working for years. buried cables with claps and wrapped with electrical tap connects look like new when taken apart. Underground cable going to house for Time Warner cable has it in inpregnanted in the shielding jacket. -- Jim K9TF _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: Fw: KP5 the DXCC
_ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
You think the frequency selection is stupid? Take a look at their objective. --Super Slow CW. 10 hours for a QSO. A QLF contest has more Pizazz and makes more sense. Bill--W4BSG -Original Message- From: Tom W8JI Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2013 9:32 PM To: Rick ; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW What a stupid frequency for a test beacon of any type! - Original Message - From: Rick n...@triad.rr.com To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 4:57 PM Subject: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW Good evening all, Hate to burst the theories, but it appears the carrier on 3501.6 MHz is a QRSS beacon operated by W4HBK. I used Spectrum Lab and selected the 1-second dit in the Quick Settings tab, Slow Morse Reception (QRSS) menu selection. The carrier drops about 6 Hz from the space to the mark and decode with the eye. Inter-character spacing is a dit, intra character spacing is a dah both are on the space, or higher tone. Idle period is also the space tone. I dropped W4HBK an e-mail to get further information on this beacon ... he is also operating a QRSS beacon on 30 meters. His reply was: Hi, Rick. Tnx for the report. I am using an eight second dot period and transmitting on a frequency of 3500.8 with a frequency shift of 5 Hz. You can see details of my mept at my blog: http://pensacolasnapper.blogspot.com/2011/07/my-new-dds-mept.html It is built around the DDS VFO kit sold by N3ZI and amplifier kit from W8DIZ. Power is 1 W to a 43 foot vertical. 73 bill w4hbk Oh, his QTH is Gulf Breeze FL, near Pensacola. And now, back to our regularly scheduled program. 73 Rick NM3G _ Topband Reflector - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3614/6767 - Release Date: 10/20/13 _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Steady Carrier on 80 CW
For what it's worth, considering the fine DF work done, I don't think the QRSS station was the offender. It seems like it was probably in Georgia, south of Savannah. Just guessing. Bill--W4BSG _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: W8ji ATR-10 design 160M?
Jim-- It sounds like you are just shooting in the dark and hoping for a hit. Are you measuring anything? Remind me-- what is your antenna? Bill--W4BSG -Original Message- From: Jim GM Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2013 10:23 AM To: topband Subject: Re: Topband: W8ji ATR-10 design 160M? I understand least amount of inductance. I can email a Power Point file of what I have. if any one is interested. Just ignore my notes. They just remind me what I have done so I do not do over again. I am not getting multiple minimum SWR points. If I move the external capacitance in between the 2 external inductors I can run 500 watts with out an arc over. Keeping the 100 pF external cap there and add another 100pF cap back at the antenna going to ground the cap in the MFJ-989 B starts arcing around 300 watts again. I am at a bit of a loss. My MFJ-998RT auto tuner will be back from repairs soon. If I do not do something with this situation I will FRY the thing again. -- Jim K9TF _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: WLW
I agree that mark makes valuable contributions, but I wish he had not put it out under the WLW Logo. Bill--W4BSG -Original Message- From: Juan EA5RS Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 12:27 PM To: topband@contesting.com Cc: 'Mark Connelly' ; 'Bill Aycock' Subject: Re: Topband: WLW I could agree that some of the messages on this thread might have been boring, but I find Mark's posting VERY interesting pointing to an actual propagation effect not fully explained by propagation models. 73 Juan EA5RS -Mensaje original- De: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] En nombre de Bill Aycock Enviado el: martes, 17 de septiembre de 2013 18:52 Para: topband@contesting.com; Mark Connelly Asunto: Re: Topband: WLW I HATE it when Topbanders get bored; thing like this WCKYWLW etc flood out. Bill--W4BSG -Original Message- From: Mark Connelly Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 10:15 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: WLW 1.7 megawatts out of WLW was no doubt the highest power run by anyone in the Western Hemisphere on medium wave. Duba, Saudi Arabia runs 2 megawatts on 1521 kHz all the time. No wonder that it often screams in here on the coast of Massachusetts around local sunset, as in this recording: http://www.qsl.net/wa1ion/audio1/dx_saudi_arabia-1521_20060503_2300z.mp3 or this one: http://www.qsl.net/wa1ion/audio1/dx_1521_saudi_arabia_20081029_2300z.mp3 1521 has proven to be a useful propagation indicator to the Middle East, as is the UAE station (R. Farda) on 1575 with 800 kW and Kuwait (R. Sawa) 1548 (600 kW). The signals are at least 15 dB stronger at seashore sites than at locations even just 5 to 10 miles inland, especially if the intervening land is sandy or rocky. A receiving antenna that is substantially elevated would cut those losses some at the inland site. Mark Connelly, WA1ION South Yarmouth, MA He told us it was put in for Crosley who got a bug in his butt to see what the rig would really do. The meter showed the total current on the three finals. One night he cranked it up as far as it would go. Keep in mind, the voltage on the finals was 17,500 volts, as I remember. He got that meter up to 100 amps. Do the math. He burnt up some local fences that night. Of course, 13 transmitters (with plug-in coils) each running 220,000 watts simultaneously on several bands down the road at VOA was astonishing, but that 1,700,000 watts at WLW was stuck in our minds all the way home that night. We were TopBand guys, afterall! 73, Best DX, Barry, W9UCW _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: WLW
Mark—I’m sorry. Yours DID have technical merit. Much of the rest did not. I lived through a lot of the best of the old AM Radio days, and reading faulty memories about it IS boring. Bill—W4BSG From: Mark Connelly Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 1:14 PM To: billayc...@centurytel.net ; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: WLW Got it, I'll cease from sending out this sort of rubbish. Mark -Original Message- From: Bill Aycock billayc...@centurytel.net To: topband topband@contesting.com; Mark Connelly markwa1...@aol.com Sent: Tue, Sep 17, 2013 1:00 pm Subject: Re: Topband: WLW I HATE it when Topbanders get bored; thing like this WCKYWLW etc flood out. Bill--W4BSG -Original Message- From: Mark Connelly Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 10:15 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: WLW 1.7 megawatts out of WLW was no doubt the highest power run by anyone in the Western Hemisphere on medium wave. Duba, Saudi Arabia runs 2 megawatts on 1521 kHz all the time. No wonder that it often screams in here on the coast of Massachusetts around local sunset, as in this recording: http://www.qsl.net/wa1ion/audio1/dx_saudi_arabia-1521_20060503_2300z.mp3 or this one: http://www.qsl.net/wa1ion/audio1/dx_1521_saudi_arabia_20081029_2300z.mp3 1521 has proven to be a useful propagation indicator to the Middle East, as is the UAE station (R. Farda) on 1575 with 800 kW and Kuwait (R. Sawa) 1548 (600 kW). The signals are at least 15 dB stronger at seashore sites than at locations even just 5 to 10 miles inland, especially if the intervening land is sandy or rocky. A receiving antenna that is substantially elevated would cut those losses some at the inland site. Mark Connelly, WA1ION South Yarmouth, MA He told us it was put in for Crosley who got a bug in his butt to see what the rig would really do. The meter showed the total current on the three finals. One night he cranked it up as far as it would go. Keep in mind, the voltage on the finals was 17,500 volts, as I remember. He got that meter up to 100 amps. Do the math. He burnt up some local fences that night. Of course, 13 transmitters (with plug-in coils) each running 220,000 watts simultaneously on several bands down the road at VOA was astonishing, but that 1,700,000 watts at WLW was stuck in our minds all the way home that night. We were TopBand guys, afterall! 73, Best DX, Barry, W9UCW _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Ground mounted 1/2 and 1/4 wave verticals (was GAP)
Gentlemen-- I am learning a LOT, but there is a Great Deal of confusion (at least in my mind) because at least three quite different conditions are involved. We have the base fed 1/4 wave vertical; the base fed 1/2 wave vertical; and the center fed 1/2 wave vertical. Grounding considerations are very different. As far as I know, even though the same analytical tools are pertinent, the characteristics and the design approaches are quite separate. Please, try to clearly separate them in these discussions, to help people like me. Bill--W4BSG ___ It is undesirable to believe a proposition when there is no ground whatsoever for supposing it is true. #8212; Bertrand Russell
Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 117, Issue 22
JOHN-- We are fortunate that you are only allowed an opinion, not a directie. Also-- Most posters give their call when yelling. Bill--W4BSG -Original Message- From: John Nemo Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 9:19 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 117, Issue 22 Digimodes on top band.NO THANK YOU. From: topband-requ...@contesting.com topband-requ...@contesting.com To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Sunday, 16 September 2012, 23:38 Subject: Topband Digest, Vol 117, Issue 22 Send Topband mailing list submissions to topband@contesting.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/topband or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to topband-requ...@contesting.com You can reach the person managing the list at topband-ow...@contesting.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Topband digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: Topband Digest, Vol 117, Issue 20 (Jim Brown) 2. Re: Old Radios (Eddy Swynar) 3. Re: Topband Digest, Vol 117, Issue 20 (Mike Armstrong) 4. Re: American Samoa on TB? (Greg Chartrand) 5. Re: Topband Digest, Vol 117, Issue 20 (Tom W8JI) 6. Re: American Samoa on TB? (Bernie McClenny, W3UR) 7. Re: American Samoa on TB? (Herb Schoenbohm) -- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 12:19:29 -0700 From: Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 117, Issue 20 Message-ID: 50562641.9040...@audiosystemsgroup.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 9/16/2012 11:53 AM, Tom W8JI wrote: Another part is they just may not recognize CW, or what the CW station is doing. You would be surprised how many old timers and experienced CW ops are using digital modes. I think that even in this no-code world, almost ANY ham would at least RECOGNIZE CW, even if they couldn't copy it, but I'd bet that very few CW or SSB ops who don't work digital modes would recognize any of them as being signals, let alone recognize the mode. 73, Jim K9YC -- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 16:03:49 -0400 From: Eddy Swynar deswy...@xplornet.ca To: ZR z...@jeremy.mv.com Cc: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Old Radios Message-ID: 3f3b67b9-0788-4daf-b924-e306f49f9...@xplornet.ca Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii On 2012-09-16, at 3:49 PM, ZR wrote: I'll try to get a 210 on 160 for ARRL and see how many states I can work. If not the modified 1928 Radiola 60 superhet is all ready to at least listen. It took 2 1/2 years to work DXCC on 80 with PP 211's which were very stable but Ive taken that apart and now building a 160-20 rig starting off with a 27 and ending in a 860. Hi Carl, It'd be just great to hear you on Topband with that 210 rig... As for garnering W.A.S. during the QSO Party, I should forewarn you: historically I don't think ANYONE has EVER netted 60 (or more) QSOs during the entire two-weekends of the event! The west coast is only now beginning to make its presence known in the past few years in the person of Steve (VE7SL---forgive me if I have your callsign incorrect, Steve). Most activity is from the north-eastern USA, although there IS a VERY strong contingent that joins the group from the mid-west. No matter, it's a laid-back, leisurely, fun exercise, it'd be nice if you could join the fray, Carl. ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ -- Message: 3 Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 13:07:02 -0700 From: Mike Armstrong armst...@aol.com To: Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com Cc: k...@arrl.net k...@arrl.net,topband@contesting.com topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 117, Issue 20 Message-ID: 29b9f29c-e9c1-47d8-bcb0-627cf97c9...@aol.com Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii Tom, on point ... I am, almost exclusively, a CW and Digi op in that order. I will say, anecdotally, that I have not experienced any interference caused by one or the other to the other on 160. I admit that I am not THE most active op on 160, but I am there a fair amount of time. Since most 160 band plans, like the DX window, seem to have gone by the wayside, it would be incumbent upon us as those who love the band, to come up with one that includes the newer modes. The reason? Better utilization by those who have WAY LESS than optimal stations for 160. Particularly those who are antenna and power limited. With the advent of modes like JT65, this has been a godsend for the apartment dweller or those who live in a yard-nazi environment that makes it virtually impossible to put up anything larger than a mobile whip. Ask those folks about JT65 and they practically bow to the software writer as being the savior of their
Re: Topband: THE ITINERANT 160 METER ANTENNA PROJECT
Jim-- Forgive me, but this is a completely ambiguous statement. I have read many conflicting statements on this subject. So, how can I believe what I read? Please be specific about what you mean, and your test results. Bill--W4BSG -Original Message- From: Jim WA9YSD Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2012 10:14 AM To: Top Band Subject: Re: Topband: THE ITINERANT 160 METER ANTENNA PROJECT I ran comparisons side by side over the years with folded dipoles, bazookas against just a plain Jane wire dipole. You can believe what you read. Stay on course, fight a good fight, and keep the faith. Jim K9TF/WA9YSD From: Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com To: Jim WA9YSD wa9...@yahoo.com; Top Band topband@contesting.com Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2012 8:58 AM Subject: Re: Topband: THE ITINERANT 160 METER ANTENNA PROJECT I had read in a Hand Book for the 1930's the 3 wire folded dipole and 2 wire folded dipole had a couple factor of 1. This would make this antenna the preferred driven element for a long yagi. Why? Unless we know what they meant by the use of the phrase coupling factor, we can't possibly extrapolate the meaning to infer anything about coupling in a Yagi. I have not seen the exact text, but most likely they mean coupling from one conductor to the next inside the dipiole is unitywhich has nothing to do with how that group of conductors couples to anything else in the world. It would really only mean that group of conductors or wires behaves as one conductor or wire. Folded dipoles are all so used when installations require long lengths of feed line. Only because their impedance closely matches the impedance of low-loss open wire lines available years ago. This meant the open wire line operated with a low SWR on the band the dipole was cut for. Other than feed impedance, they are just a dipole. They have the same radiation resistance as a regular dipole, using the IRE definition of radiation resistance. The only changed is impedance seen by the feedline. Back when the Bazooka or Double Bazooka or other wise now known as coaxial antenna back around 1970 I think when I saw it in Ham Radio Mag.. Its coupling factor was around 0.9 That antenna was entirely false in theory and concept. The article, as I recall, did not accurately describe how the antenna worked. That antenna is just a thick dipole with a stub across the feedpoint. The stub internal conductors and the coax jacket introduces a little loss, so it has LESS gain than a regular dipole. I was aware of the antenna because a person who worked for me started raving about them, and selling them. His supposition, based on the article, was they had gain and had increased bandwidth, and less noise. The theory made no sense on paper, and when I compared one to a regular dipole the same material and thickness they were identical, as near as I could tell. No some had told me that later on the coupling fact was really Velocity Factor. Now how can the velocity factor gets interpreted as to how well a driven element couples when compared to gamma match elements or Dipole or a folded dipole or bazooka? It doesn't. Don't believe everything you read. One book we have, considered to be a bible on baluns, starts on the second page with a misconception of balance and the behavior of dipoles and coaxial lines, and a flawed test to prove the theory. The entire book is about balance, and the foundation shows a misunderstanding of the cause of common mode current. This why, later in the book, a balun that isn't even a balun is described. This is a hobby without much peer review, and yet we expect people, articles, or books we hold in high esteem to be right 100% of the time. This doesn't mean they are worthless, just that we need to understand things are not flawless. 73 Tom ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: 2 Parallel Beverages
Sounds good to me. HI Bill--W4BSG - Original Message - From: ZR z...@jeremy.mv.com To: Bill Aycock billayc...@centurytel.net Cc: topband@contesting.com Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 9:24 AM Subject: Re: Topband: 2 Parallel Beverages I figured that word would raise a flag. Lets say privately sharing the results which leaves no footprints behind. Bottom line is that Id very much like to do a full evaluation and see if it even comes close to warranting its high price. Mine seems to work extremely well but Ive no benchmark to compare against. Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Bill Aycock billayc...@centurytel.net To: ZR z...@jeremy.mv.com; he...@vitelcom.net Cc: topband@contesting.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 10:35 PM Subject: Re: Topband: 2 Parallel Beverages There is a BIG difference (Legally) between reverse Engineering for personal use, and publishing the results. Bill--W4BSG - Original Message - From: ZR z...@jeremy.mv.com To: he...@vitelcom.net Cc: topband@contesting.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 7:26 PM Subject: Re: Topband: 2 Parallel Beverages Has DXE actually made that claim publicly? I fail to see how they can stop anyone from reverse engineering for personal use. I doubt they could even spell Customer Relations from reports Ive heard. Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Herb Schoenbohm he...@vitelcom.net To: ZR z...@jeremy.mv.com Cc: topband@contesting.com Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 8:12 PM Subject: Re: Topband: 2 Parallel Beverages On 5/23/2012 6:51 PM, ZR wrote: Is this box sealed in epoxy? Why hasnt someone reverse engineered it and published the schematic? If anyone has a bad one send it to me; the least I can do is look at it with a VNA or a GR bridge. Carl KM1H The box is cast aluminum and relatively easy to take apart. However DXE appears not to wish a schematic publish nor do I want to do battle with their attorneys as others have. I would just like to talk to someone in their customer relations department. I have the box working but without their support. Herb, KV4FZ - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2425/5018 - Release Date: 05/23/12 ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2425/5019 - Release Date: 05/24/12 ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 113, Issue 8
This post is the best evidence ever that Top Posting is a good Idea. Bill--W4BSG - Original Message - From: gw3jxn gw3...@tiscali.co.uk To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 3:27 AM Subject: Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 113, Issue 8 - Original Message - From: topband-requ...@contesting.com To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2012 7:00 PM Subject: Topband Digest, Vol 113, Issue 8 Send Topband mailing list submissions to topband@contesting.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/topband or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to topband-requ...@contesting.com You can reach the person managing the list at topband-ow...@contesting.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Topband digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: Fwd: radals fer 160m vertcal (Jim WA9YSD) 2. Re: Fwd: radals fer 160m vertcal (ZR) 3. Re: Fwd: radals fer 160m vertcal (Charlie Young) 4. Re: Fwd: radals fer 160m vertcal (Richard Fry) 5. Re: Fwd: radals fer 160m vertcal (James Rodenkirch) 6. Radials on top band (John Harden) 7. Re: Fwd: radals fer 160m vertcal (Mike Waters) -- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 07:00:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim WA9YSD wa9...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: Topband: Fwd: radals fer 160m vertcal To: Top Band topband@contesting.com Message-ID: 1336226408.63699.yahoomail...@web111714.mail.gq1.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Keep in mind this Sole purpose of a BC station is to get coverage of about 60 miles running 5KW day time and 1 KW night time with no fad and quality signal not to work DX. I read in some posts or on some web site that it does not matter if the ends are tied to a ground rod or not.??Note then ends not at the base of the vertical. My backyard is only 35 by 36 feet.??You guys only think you have a small back yard.??Compare it with this one. The City water pipe system sure works as the good ground I guess so does the neighbors plumbing cause their house in only 8 feet from mine :-) Jim K9TF ? Stay on course, fight a good fight, and keep the faith.?Jim K9TF/WA9YSD -- Message: 2 Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 10:34:06 -0400 From: ZR z...@jeremy.mv.com Subject: Re: Topband: Fwd: radals fer 160m vertcal To: Richard Fry r...@adams.net, topband@contesting.com Message-ID: F637FEFE70F444C692A62D16142B015F@computer1 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original There have been several reports of established AM stations that the FCC gave permission to replace a decayed or destroyed inground radial system with elevated radials or an elevated mesh/radial arrangement. In all the cases I read the FS measurements exceed the original and power had to be reduced to the original level. Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Richard Fry r...@adams.net To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2012 8:07 AM Subject: Re: Topband: Fwd: radals fer 160m vertcal James Rodenkirch wrote: What about radials above the ground? This link http://www.commtechrf.com/documents/nab1995.pdf leads to a paper by Clarence Beverage with some real-world results for monopoles with elevated wires used as a counterpoise. Here is a quote from it: \ \The antenna system consisted of a lightweight, 15 inch face tower, 120 feet in height, with a base insulator at the 15 foot elevation and six elevated radials, a quarter wave in length, spaced evenly around the tower and elevated 15 feet above the ground. The radials were fully insulated from ground and supported at the ends by wooden tripods. Power was fed to the system through a 200 foot length of coaxial cable with the cable shield connected to the shunt element of the T network and to the elevated radials. A balun or RF choke on the feedline was not employed and the feedline was isolated from the lower section of the tower. The system operated on 1580 kHz at a power of 750 watts. The efficiency of the antenna was determined by radial field intensity measurements along 12 radials extending out to a distance of up to 85 kilometers. The measured RMS efficiency was 287 mV/m for 1 kW, at one kilometer, which is the same measured value as would be expected for a 0.17 wave tower above 120 buried radials. / / So while such elevated installations are rare for AM broadcast stations, their performance has been measured to be about the same as when using an r-f ground consisting of 120 buried wires, each 1/4-wave long (free space length). These elevated systems are readily modeled using NEC-2. However the radiation patterns shown by a typical NEC far-field analysis do not accurately show the fields actually launched by
Re: Topband: Best small space antennas
Guy-- Thanks-- beautifully described. It is as I thought, but the diagram on the W0UCE page confused me, particularly with the connections to the Counterpoise. Bill--W4BSG - Original Message - From: Guy Olinger K2AV olin...@bellsouth.net To: Bill Aycock billayc...@centurytel.net Cc: topband@contesting.com Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 1:56 AM Subject: Re: Topband: Best small space antennas Bill, Instructions for creating a drawing of the basic configuration: 160 only, no tuning inductors or capacitors. Tuning after construction by adjusting the length of the top of the L. Start in the center of a blank piece of paper. Draw a transformer with a completely separate primary and secondary. Draw the core bars vertical so all of one winding is on the left and all of the other winding is on the right. On the left side of the tranformer connect the upper end of the winding to the inverted L. On the left side of the transformer connect the lower end of the winding to the folded counterpoise. On the right side of the transformer connect the upper end of the winding to the feed coax center conductor. On the right side of the transformer connect the lower end of the winding to the feed coax shield. Do not ground the coax shield until 30-50 feet away from the transformer. That's the wiring diagram. Length of the inverted L is adjusted to prune to resonance at your choice of center frequency. This appears to be centering in the vicinity of 130-140 feet, **IF** you are using an isolation transformer built to our specs, but we will know more when there are 100 of these up in the air and reporting. The transformer is wound on an Amidon T300A-2 #2 material powdered iron toroid. Twenty bifilar turns of #14 double polyimide insulated, sleeved with AWG12 teflon standard wall no shrink sleeving. Requires 15 feet of wire and 15 feet of teflon sleeve, cut in half to make the two winding wires. 73, Guy. On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 11:33 PM, Bill Aycock billayc...@centurytel.netwrote: Guy--(and others who may contribute) I have been following your posts, and have some questions, brought on by a view at the W0UCE diagrams, at: http://www.w0uce.net/**K2AVantennas.htmlhttp://www.w0uce.net/K2AVantennas.html The top figure seems to match what I understood from your post, but the figure that includes the Inv L confuses me, particularly with regard to the connections. I need a more simplistic description, including the connections to the transformer Thanks- Bill--W4BSG - Original Message - From: Guy Olinger K2AV olin...@bellsouth.net To: Jim Miller Waco Texas WB5OXQ wb5ox...@grandecom.net Cc: topband@contesting.com Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 7:57 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Best small space antennas Note: the following is not a theoretical or untested antenna. There are working antennas in the field using the folded counterpoise described below, scoring well in contests**, in use up to a year and more. Contest scores of the sort attained are not made using antennas with significant deficiencies or fundamental flaws. A miscellaneous end-fed inverted L or end-fed inverted U over an elevated 5/16 wave single wire folded counterpoise (FCP) will have good radiation from a small lot, with the ability to put out a strong signal not usually associated with small lots. In the simple implementation of this antenna (160 only), the length of the L or U is adjusted for zero reactance, usually resulting in a 50-60 ohm feed Z at resonance. There are NO radials. The main design point of the antenna is to minimize lossy currents induced in the dirt and confine TX signal current to the FCP and the radiating wire. This is a real, and lossy issue for a few short or miscellaneous radials. Enough of an issue to kill 15 dB. The radiating wire first goes up as much vertical as you can manage, then out as far as manageable, and then down if length is still needed to prune to resonance. The main point is to pick a feed point on the property that has your best vertical rise and then get the rest of the length for resonance however you can. For some properties this has meant putting extra angles in the up+over+down radiator. Some properties will not need the down part. The antenna uses a REQUIRED isolation transformer at the feed point because the counterpoise is NOT resonant, and the feed would really rather use the much lower Z but hugely lossy coax shield current as a counterpoise. The folds in the FCP are designed to maximally reduce counterpoise fields at the ground, reducing lossy currents in the dirt. The isolation transformer's leftover inductive reactance, a disadvantage in many applications, in this case helps to tune out the capacitive reactance of the FCP and reduces the length of the radiating wire needed to achieve simple resonance for the antenna. The counterpoise extends plus and minus 33 feet from
Re: Topband: Best small space antennas
Guy--(and others who may contribute) I have been following your posts, and have some questions, brought on by a view at the W0UCE diagrams, at: http://www.w0uce.net/K2AVantennas.html The top figure seems to match what I understood from your post, but the figure that includes the Inv L confuses me, particularly with regard to the connections. I need a more simplistic description, including the connections to the transformer Thanks- Bill--W4BSG - Original Message - From: Guy Olinger K2AV olin...@bellsouth.net To: Jim Miller Waco Texas WB5OXQ wb5ox...@grandecom.net Cc: topband@contesting.com Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 7:57 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Best small space antennas Note: the following is not a theoretical or untested antenna. There are working antennas in the field using the folded counterpoise described below, scoring well in contests**, in use up to a year and more. Contest scores of the sort attained are not made using antennas with significant deficiencies or fundamental flaws. A miscellaneous end-fed inverted L or end-fed inverted U over an elevated 5/16 wave single wire folded counterpoise (FCP) will have good radiation from a small lot, with the ability to put out a strong signal not usually associated with small lots. In the simple implementation of this antenna (160 only), the length of the L or U is adjusted for zero reactance, usually resulting in a 50-60 ohm feed Z at resonance. There are NO radials. The main design point of the antenna is to minimize lossy currents induced in the dirt and confine TX signal current to the FCP and the radiating wire. This is a real, and lossy issue for a few short or miscellaneous radials. Enough of an issue to kill 15 dB. The radiating wire first goes up as much vertical as you can manage, then out as far as manageable, and then down if length is still needed to prune to resonance. The main point is to pick a feed point on the property that has your best vertical rise and then get the rest of the length for resonance however you can. For some properties this has meant putting extra angles in the up+over+down radiator. Some properties will not need the down part. The antenna uses a REQUIRED isolation transformer at the feed point because the counterpoise is NOT resonant, and the feed would really rather use the much lower Z but hugely lossy coax shield current as a counterpoise. The folds in the FCP are designed to maximally reduce counterpoise fields at the ground, reducing lossy currents in the dirt. The isolation transformer's leftover inductive reactance, a disadvantage in many applications, in this case helps to tune out the capacitive reactance of the FCP and reduces the length of the radiating wire needed to achieve simple resonance for the antenna. The counterpoise extends plus and minus 33 feet from the feed point, 167 feet folded into 66 linear feet occupied on the property. The middle 20 feet of the 66 should be straight, but either end can be bent away from the straight line to accommodate the property. Up 8 feet or higher is recommended. Lowering the counterpoise increases the coupling to dirt, increasing losses. The isolation transformer uses the same physical components as a balun, but the unlike the balun there is NO connection of any kind between the primary and secondary windings. This is accomplished with twenty bifilar turns of double polyimide insulated #14 with teflon sleeving wound on an Amidon T300A-2 #2 material powdered iron toroid. One wire is the primary, and the other is the secondary. The low MU powdered iron toroid was picked over time to avoid heating, still provide required coupling, with other choices sometimes failing in spectacular fashion. We have no information of our currently-used winding method on the Amidon T300A-2 ever failing for any cause, though we would not expect it to survive a direct lightning strike. With the isolation transformer, the antenna and FCP is entirely above ground and not connected to anything else. We use a 5 megohm resistor, in parallel with a non-resistor lawn mower spark plug, from the FCP to ground as a static drain. The gap drains lightning induced voltage to protect the resistor, the resistor drains wind, snow, rain static. The resistor and gap protect the winding from a voltage puncture that will grow into a carbon track to ground. 73, Guy. ** As reported in Dec 2011 CQ, Jan 2011 CW160CW contest, USA low power unassisted, the 29 scores over 100K out of 335 scored logs in class: Station, state, score, QSO, ST+PROV, DX K9AY WI 259,346 991 58 36 W0UO TX 250,716 882 58 44 K1EP MA 232,750 909 56 39 K2AV NC 223,908 907 57 37 No radials, 5/16 FCP K8BL OH 203,328 819 58 38 KU1CW KS 197,885 795 58 37 N2WN TN 191,090 640 55 42 WB8JUI OH 190,372 852 58 38 N7IR AZ 183,855 856 58 27 W2TZ NY 178,633 723 56 35 NA8V MI 177,030 793 59 31 W4AA
