Re: Topband: 40m array as RX antenna

[Bryon Paul Veal NØAH]

Need link to un subscribe from list.  Any help appreciated

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From: Topband  on behalf of John Harden, D.M.D. 

Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2018 5:53:14 AM
To: JC; j...@audiosystemsgroup.com; topband@contesting.com
Cc: l...@k7tjr.com
Subject: Re: Topband: 40m array as RX antenna

I have one of JC's Waller Flags on a 40 foot boom at 95 feet.. It is fed
with LMR-600 at the tower base XFMR where the 100 ohm twin-ax
terminates. It is use with a K-3 in diversity receive with a Hi-Z 8
which is down the hill es across the creek. The system hears remarkably
well.. Beverages, Ewes, and other RX antennas are out the door...

In the shack the 40 dB N4IS pre-amp is in a steel box for shielding
purposes.  All components of the station are connected via 1/2 " braid
to a 6 ' x 6" x 1\4' aluminum grounding bus.

There are multiple chokes in the leads per N4IS es NX4D... It has been a
long process.

The IC-7610 is also in use from time to time since this SDR radio is
Ultra-Quiet...

73,

John, W4NU


On 11/15/2018 7:19 AM, JC wrote:
> Hi Jim and Lee
>
>
> Before we agree that we disagree, let me elaborate on few basic concepts for 
> a good design. Point by point and let me know which one you disagree.
>
> 1- RF runs outside the cable surface, it does not matter what is inside, a 
> coax cable shield, a solid # 4 wire external surface is similar to a RG58 in 
> respect of RF current.
>
> 2- Every cable on your station is an antenna. If the cable is 1/8 to 1/2 wave 
> long on low bands, the energy on the outside surface is very high. 100ft 
> rotor cable , or 100ft 9913 from your 2m antenna, or 100ft of controls cable, 
> and or 100ft of RG6 on your RX antenna have almost the same energy of your 
> 160m inverted L ~ 120ft.
>
> 3- All these cables somehow are connected to your station ground at your 
> station. All of them are part of your antenna system and interact with each 
> other.
>
> 4- Any of these cables connecting into a well-designed board brings a lot of 
> energy on low bands, normally called common mode noise, signal that we don’t 
> want to mix with our RX signal coming from our RX antenna.
>
> 5- Prevent the external RF current to enter into our board is a big problem 
> on low bands. On Audio, you have an excellent description of pin 1 problem on 
> your papers, 60 and 120 Hz is the issue. On low bands 1.8 MHz, all RF signals 
> from 50 KHz to 10 MHz are responsible for the common mode noise current on 
> low band antennas.
>
> 6- To filter or decouple 1.8 MHz signal a 1000 pf or 1nF has a very high 
> impedance, 10nF is not enough, it is necessary 100 nF or more. DC filter is 
> an issue too, it is easy to inject the common mode noise into the Vcc.
>
>
> 7- May point is that is very difficult to protect any board or parts, like a 
> BALUN or transformer, or any amplifier from common mode noise, PIN 1 PROBLEM. 
>  A plastic box make almost impossible to avoid that. A Metal case protects 
> the board and avoid the external current to get into the board.
>
> 8- I can agree that the intensity of the signal and the  common mode signal 
> leak could be 20 db, 30 db or more. However when you dig a weak signal it is 
> huge problem.
>
> 73'
> JC
> N4IS
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jim Brown [mailto:j...@audiosystemsgroup.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2018 8:10 PM
> To: n...@n4is.com
> Cc: l...@k7tjr.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: 40m array as RX antenna
>
> On 11/14/2018 4:41 PM, n...@n4is.com wrote:
>> I would suggest a metal box to protect any RX system, it does help.
> Only if the circuit layout is poor. Lee is right - shielding of circuity is 
> only a band-aid for poor design.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
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Re: Topband: Propagation.

[Bryon Paul Veal NØAH]

What do I have to say to get booted off this thread?  10 meters rules???

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From: Topband  on behalf of W7RH 

Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 2:39:59 PM
To: Topband
Subject: Re: Topband: Propagation.

The not so Boring Report. Sorry Tree. Boring is actual a suburb of the
greater Portland, Gresham area on US 26 on the way to Mt Hood and Bend
Oregon. Know it well as the area was stomping ground in my youth. I'm
now an old fart who has been in the desert for over 30 years.

Here is my Propagation perspective from the West:

Except for rare Greyline at sunset propagation it takes several hours
for the F1 and F2 layers to settle. This early in the season out west
and you stay up to midnight you might get lucky but usually hear
nothing. The exception is those to far south and those to far north.

No propagation? 160m is always open somewhere. Sunrise here in the west
has seen many openings to VK and ZL with Asiatic Russia thrown in. All
summer there were good openings to South America, Central America  and
occasional African.

While the Midwest guys are enjoying getting into EU, West of the Rockies
only a few openings occur this early. Guys in the northern western tier
states and Canada with good RX capabilities can bust through the Auroral
zone and work into EU. The rest of us will have to be satisfied with
Mediterranean and North Africa. Thus far I've heard peeps from Wolf
DF2PY and Len SM7BIC. ON the other hand out of the blue 4U1GSC (Italy)
had a great signal at their sunrise two nights ago. Unfortunately I was
dealing with a line of thunderstorms on that path.

In other comments I tend to agree with Merv and Paul on recent comments.
I get kinda of sensitive once in a while regarding regarding remote
operations because I'm in a group of a half dozen or so who  primary
station is remote and solely for my use taking years to build and
optimize not to mention maintain. I don't like being lumped into the
dialup group.

Not being an avid DX'er card carrying member I'll take my poke. The real
proof of the pudding is in competitions because your "$10,000 radio" is
not going to work UN5J on FT8 with a 50cent antenna regardless of how
much power you run. To satisfy the argument my primary station is a
lowly TS480. My wife on the other hand would like to think I didn't
spend as much as I did on land and infrastructure. LOL

The ultimate award is competing on fair grounds with your peers and
getting nominated to Contesting Hall of Fame. This half deaf old timer
will never achieve that but still enjoys the competition in Zone 3!

With that in mind. Put on your headphones work them whatever way you
want because in the end it just doesn't matter to anyone except oneself.

73, Bob

W7RH


--
W7RH DM35OS


It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity.

Albert Einstein

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Re: Topband: propagation in reply of real antennas for topband comments

[Bryon Paul Veal NØAH]

No propagation? Just remote in where the signal you need is on ground wave! We 
don't need no stinking real men antennasand apparently no one is at the 
switch of the ARRL DXCC desk to care.  They are too busy rearranging the chairs 
on the Titanic.  Not a popular view (I know) but I can assure you there is some 
reality with our times right now.I think a lot of old timers hiding in the 
woodwork are trying get those topband DXCC numbers up in their sunset years bu 
any means, excuse the pun.

Paul. N0AH

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From: Topband  on behalf of K9FD 

Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 5:10:32 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: AA0RS sig in EU

I find part of the problem to be many hams are willing to spend 10,000
dollars for a new
SDR radio,  and 50 cents on a decent antenna.  and wonder why they have
no propagation.

Merv K9FD/KH6

> Hello !
>
> it seems that slowly the band nw opens up. Dave had a workable signal
> this morning into EU. It was a kind of 1 minute QSB intervall. And on
> the peak he was 549. But he came back to the second call .
>
> In them ol`days we used to work the westcoast by the third weekend in
> September. But from what i experienced the last years, we have less
> stns capable of bridging the continent and another ocean.
>
> Its about time everybody brings up the filaments and wears the
> headphones again.
>
> see u guys down there wolfdf2py
>
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Re: Topband: Private thanks to you on your posting vs W0BTU RE topband Leaving

[Bryon Paul Veal NØAH]

I think the problem is due to limited high Q antennas on top band, every one is 
more concerned about 30Khz of usable DX bandwidth.  I find a lot of topband and 
is fully underutilized, much like 80M.  So we hear a lot QRM for digital ops 
both on the air and reflectors.  I do feel digital modes could be using 
available underused spectrum to avoid run ins but that never seemed to be in 
the cards due to region IARU issues.

73. Paul. N0AH

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From: Topband  on behalf of chacuff 

Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2018 8:21:52 AM
To: Richard (Rick) Karlquist; Mark K3MSB
Cc: topband; Tree
Subject: Re: Topband: Private thanks to you on your posting vs W0BTU RE topband 
Leaving



Not Helpful...
But quite revealing...earning them stripes!
CecilK5DL


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

 Original message 
From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" 
Date: 9/5/18  8:20 AM  (GMT-06:00)
To: Mark K3MSB 
Cc: topband , Tree 
Subject: Topband: Private thanks to you on your posting vs W0BTU RE topband 
Leaving

Off the reflector:

Thanks Mark for posting this "rebuttal?" to W0BTU.
His rules are way too stifling for my tastes.

On another reflector, some bozo was going off
on me saying I didn't know what I was talking
about, etc. when I was trying to give him
some friendly advice.

The moderator asked me if I wanted
to have him kick this guy off the reflector
because he offended me.  I told him, heck no,
he just makes himself look stupid.  I'll let
the readers decide which one of us is the fool.
You know the saying, don't argue with a fool...

Anyway, your comments are very well received here.
I'm going to save your "rules" for future reference.

I'm a self confessed "never-FT8'er", but I wouldn't
dream of forcing the FT8 enthusiasts off the reflector.
I don't get where the beef is here.

73
Rick N6RK


> I had to go rummage around my Trash folder to find the original post that
> started this:
>
> “From the FT8 arguments in addition to the "millennials causing
> the WWV shutdown" argument, it appears that the parts of the hobby that I
> enjoy do not cross paths with those on the topband reflector. Although I
> wish you all many CW DX, it appears that I am no longer welcome and that I
> must take my leave.”
>
> I've no idea what the millennial and WWV comment is about as I did not
> follow that thread.
>
> So we're back to the old FT8 vs CW argument.Was this person
> specifically harassed and hunted down for his views?   Shame on the
> moderators if that's what happened.Or, did “the leaver” just not feel
> welcomed because others expressed contrary views and wouldn't back off?
> If that's the case, then there's the door, don't let it hit ya where the
> Good Lord split ya.
>
> I've been on this reflector for a number of years and from how I observe
> the moderators actions, I doubt any harassment and hunting down of heretics
> occurred;   I like to see the moderators shoot a warning shot across the
> bow to get the ship of discourse turned away from the rocks, and overall I
> think they do a good job of it.
>
> In today's society people believe they have a right not to be offended.
> Really?   I don't think so. Nobody, including myself,  has the right to
> have their opinions respected.You do have the right to express your
> opinions freely, and without fear of persecution.   In reality, that's not
> really true for a reflector as it's a private venue,  but most reflectors
> operate as a benign dictatorship and hold to these principles.
>
> Mark's Principles of Discourse:
>
> #1:   You don't have the right to not be offended.   You don't have the
> right to have your views favorably accepted.You don't have the right to
> expect people with contrary view to back down because you're offended.
> Accept the fact that people will not agree with you.
>
> #2:   Only you can decide to take offense.   Sometimes the offenses are
> real,  a lot of times imaginary.   When I've felt offended by people on a
> reflector, or in email, or other electronic mediums,  I privately email the
> potential offender for clarification.   The vast majority of times there
> was no offense intended.  Remember,  with electronic mediums you loose
> about 93% of the intended message (body language, tone of voice etc – look
> this one up if you don't believe me.Google is your friend.).
>
> #3:   If you don't respect the source of the insult,  don't let it bother
> you.
>
> #4:  If you're new to the sandbox, welcome.   Unfortunately, if you want to
> be respected for your views,  then you have to first earn your stripes.
> “Respect is something earned, not something given”.   I have no idea who
> said that, but it's true. The corollary is that even if you don't
> respect a persons position,  courtesy still remains.
>
> So Mike W0BTU,  this is the 2nd thread in which you've posted your
> stackexchange etiquette manifesto:
>
> “but I g

Re: Topband: 160 vert

[Bryon Paul Veal NØAH]

Why not go with 133 feet?

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From: Topband  on behalf of gary mankoff 

Sent: Monday, September 3, 2018 11:52:44 AM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: 160 vert

I am planning on a full size vertical made of gray pvc tubing with about 3 
lenghts of 125feet of 10 ga wire inside the pvc .this will be inserted in the 
branches of a tall tree .also going to use a FCP .I hope this works
Gary
N6biz
73

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Re: Topband: Copying IV3PRK in WA-State CN98

[Bryon Paul Veal NØAH]

No one knows anymorethe hobby will never be the same.  We had a guy in 
Colorado work the last P5 operation in zero band conditions...zero.  but he us 
an expert at remote operating.  That's when I stopped chasing DX

73

De Paul. N0AH

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From: Topband  on behalf of Dick Grolleman 

Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 11:52:23 PM
To: Dick Bingham; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Copying IV3PRK in WA-State CN98

Don't know what you want with all these links, they all look the same to me and 
it does not tell me anything.. But yes it is IV3PRK, and he is not using 
remote. Luis is very active again specially on FT8.

73 de Dick PA3FQA

-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Topband  Namens Dick Bingham
Verzonden: woensdag 22 augustus 2018 07:01
Aan: Topband 
Onderwerp: Topband: Copying IV3PRK in WA-State CN98

Is this for real or is he using a remote?

Copying *IV3PRK* ===>

Txmtr 

 Band 

 Mode 

 Distance 

 Time (UTC) 

AF4CD 

 160m FT8 2360 miles
04:46:14
K0IEA 

 160m FT8 1324 miles
04:42:14
N9JF 

 160m FT8 1568 miles
04:41:14
W7RH 

 160m FT8 957 miles 04:41:14 N1KI 

 160m FT8 2034 miles
04:38:29
W5XZ 

 160m FT8 1728 miles
04:37:59
W7VHM 

 160m FT8 265 miles
04:32:14
N4WLO 

 160m FT8 

Re: Topband: Baker Island DXpedition condx

[Bryon Paul Veal NØAH]

I have no doubt they will be successful on the lowbands with what should 
hopefully be an ambient free RF zone- Despite the short windows, and my guess 
30M will be their best band, if you want to call that a lowband. I do- The 
greyline characteristics in crap conditions are well proven.   I only say this 
because I am comparing my experience on Lord Howe in April of 1998 VK9LZ one 
man DX’pedition. Condx sucked- With K=8, A up to 70+, and SF never broke 70.  I 
worked 30M across every greyline I had during my darkness- 40 was ok, 80 was 
poor, and I didn’t have a topband antenna. I only had daytime propagation on 17 
and 20 meters North to JA, and a number of PAC islands, except one day 17M 
opened briefly to stateside.  30M was over 50% of my 2,432 QSO’s made in a week 
operating around 18-20 hours a day/night in a hut. Used a Cushcraft AP8A and no 
amp.  I am always surprised what 30m can do and I hope we see some fast rates 
on CW excluding the FT8 mess. Won’t be an ATNO for me, but will be interesting 
to see the topband results- It will certainly contribute to the better 
understanding TopBand propagation. I get FT-8, I really do- but just another 
means of taking away time from the pure essence of CW from 160M.



73  Paul  N0AH



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From: Topband  on behalf of C Allen Baker via 
Topband 
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2018 11:47:02 AM
To: topband@contesting.com; Jim Thomson; C Allen Baker
Subject: Re: Topband: Baker Island DXpedition on 160

DX

On Fri, 6/15/18, C Allen Baker via Topband  wrote:

 Subject: Re: Topband: Baker Island DXpedition on 160
 To: topband@contesting.com, "Jim Thomson" 
 Date: Friday, June 15, 2018, 12:45 PM

 Maybe CW till band worked dry.  Hope
 so.

 73, definitely working all the DC I can
 hear.

 Al,  W5IZ

 
 On Fri, 6/15/18, Jim Thomson 
 wrote:

  Subject: Topband: Baker Island
 DXpedition on 160
  To: topband@contesting.com
  Date: Friday, June 15, 2018, 11:47 AM

  Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 14:17:43 -0400
  From: GEORGE WALLNER 
  To: David Cutter ,
  David Cutter via Topband
  ,
  "'Roger Kennedy'"
  
  Subject: Topband: Baker Island
  DXpedition on 160

  >Hello TopBanders,
  >KH1/KH7Z will be active on 160
 from
  Baker Island from June 27 to July 6
  >(note that dates are tentative
 and
  may change -- please visit
  >http://baker2018.net/ for updates).GL
 and
  CU,
  >George,
  >AA7JV


  ##  How come no  FT8
  mode on 160 M ?   U list FT8 on
 all other bands,
  from  80-6m.

  Jim   VE7RF

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Re: Topband: Baker Island DXpedition on 160

[Bryon Paul Veal NØAH]

I  have used the Cushcraft MA-160V extensively over the years and it works 
amazing well.  It only stands at 36 feet tall for the CW DX window. It is top 
loaded.  It is very light.  I don't understand why more DXpeditions don't use 
them.   I would not trust the all the parts being included, but once it is 
complete, it plays very well.  Always good to use in unison with a RX antenna; 
beverage, flag, K9AY, etc.-



Bryon "Paul" Veal - M.Ed
U.S. amateur radio call sign - N0AH
ARISS International Space Station Committee Member
http://www.ariss.org/
U.S.S. Colorado BB-45 AB0BX Memorial Club Trustee
n...@arrl.net






From: Topband  on behalf of Richard (Rick) 
Karlquist 
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 12:46 PM
To: Chortek, Robert L.; C Allen Baker
Cc: Rob Atkinson; topband@contesting.com; Ed W0YK
Subject: Re: Topband: Baker Island DXpedition on 160



On 6/13/2018 11:35 AM, Chortek, Robert L. wrote:
> A short top loaded vertical over an excellent ground will put out a fabulous 
> signal on 160!
>

Proof:  fishing buoys get out like gangbusters.

Rick N6RK
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Re: Topband: 80 meter 4-square

[Bryon Paul Veal NØAH]

I think a 1/2 wave diamond array 4 square would look and work great since your 
tower is at 117 feet

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From: Topband  on behalf of terry burge 

Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2018 11:11:18 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: 80 meter 4-square

Hello Guys and Gals,


I have been planning on building an 80 meter 4-Square around my 117' tower. I 
know it will likely require detuning the tower to make it 'invisable' to the 
4-square so that is probably in the cards. Because of the difficulty of my 
particular location have to consider shifting the array a bit. Wondering if 
offsetting it from the tower a couple of feet to the east would matter? I've 
also thought about slightly orienting the 4-square instead of on N-S-E-W to 
turn it like 10 degrees where the north-south lineup of verticals would be more 
like 10 degrees - 190 degrees and the east west accordingly. The reason for 
this would be that the side hill to the NE where I have my one vertical has 
about 5 foot dropoff to the level ground. Basically I like in a gorge area with 
a seasonal creek through it but you deal with what you have of course.


Any thoughts pro or con?


Terry

KI7M

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Re: Topband: sunrise peak

[Bryon Paul Veal NØAH]

Maybe with the vegetation yoyr not in a position to see the solar disk?

73

PAUL N0AH

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From: Topband  on behalf of Bob Kupps via 
Topband 
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 5:08:49 PM
To: TopBand List
Subject: Topband: sunrise peak

Hi I have never yet observed a sunrise peak from HS0ZIA. In fact the band 
usually goes completely dead here to EU (to my NW) about an hour before my 
local SR.
73 Bob
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Re: Topband: Adding chicken wire or mesh on top of radial field

[Bryon Paul Veal NØAH]

The SWR increase is a good thing as it shows deminishing ground losses exposing 
the true mismatch of the 50 ohm coax to the impedance of the vertical.  So with 
a limited radial field, the mesh seemed to help

My first Inv L back in 1998 with one radial was a flat 1:1 match until W0YG 
explained to be what was going on.  By the time I added 60 1/4 wave radials, I 
was at 4:1 at resonance and used an UnUn to match the coax to the vertical for 
a 1.2:1 match.

Still use the UnUn with my MA160V and MA80/40V .

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From: Topband  on behalf of Eugene Colton 

Sent: Monday, January 29, 2018 10:50:43 AM
To: W0MU Mike Fatchett
Cc: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Adding chicken wire or mesh on top of radial field

My experience it helped a lot on top of my minimal 160 radial field by
adding much wire square footage to the ground radials.  It might not add
much improvement to a very extensive 160 radial field however.  Expect your
SWR to increase somewhat.
AF9O

On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 11:55 AM, W0MU Mike Fatchett  wrote:

> I have some 6ft wide chicken wire I can roll out on top of my existing
> radial field for 160.  Does anyone have an idea what this might do?
>
> W0MU
>
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Re: Topband: Adding chicken wire or mesh on top of radial field

[Bryon Paul Veal NØAH]

When I had a 2 acre 80 meter 4 sqr raxial field up in Wyoming, this was 
strongly discouraged due to cancellation of currents, and went with the 
traditional 120 1/4 wave radials using a copper busline to to solder the 
radials in the center so they would not criss cross each other.

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From: Topband  on behalf of W0MU Mike Fatchett 

Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2018 11:55:10 AM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: Adding chicken wire or mesh on top of radial field

I have some 6ft wide chicken wire I can roll out on top of my existing
radial field for 160.  Does anyone have an idea what this might do?

W0MU

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Re: Topband: FT8 qrm

[Bryon Paul Veal NØAH]

There were ops all over the FT8 segments, refused to even try and work them and 
some were some pretty rare mults for CQWWCW...gentleman agreements are of the 
past.sucks

PAUL. N0aH



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From: Topband  on behalf of John Randall via 
Topband 
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 2:25:52 AM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: FT8 qrm

Roger,Its the old problem with contests, where people are so eager to get that 
piece of paper, that they will operate across the whole band and even out of 
band in many cases. The big issue is whether contests are now even worth the 
effort, what with the ability to cheat ever greater by using websdr and other 
means to get that qso. My conscience would not allow me to cheat the system and 
I have no plan on even trying.
Why would a digital station even BE "ALLOWED" inside the small QRO segment 
beats me. Then you get the rag chewers hogging the same segment while others 
try to work DX, talking their friends across town. I know some QRO stations 
even operate outside the segment, judging by their signal strengths.
73John - M0ELS





Digitally signed mail - John  M0ELS

“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak 
it.”
George Orwell


On Monday, 27 November 2017, 23:23:55 GMT,  
wrote:

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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: BOG pre amp info ? (Lee STRAHAN)
  2. Re: CQ WW CW 160m observations (Ed Sawyer)
  3.  CQ WW CW 160m observations (David Olean)
  4. Re: CQ WW CW 160m observations (MR TREVOR DUNNE)
  5. Re: CQ WW CW 160m observations (Henk Remijn PA5KT)
  6. Re: 160m magnetic loop (John Randall)
  7. Re: CQ WW CW 160m observations (Roger Parsons)
  8. FT8 on 160m (Roger Parsons)
  9. Re: FT8 on 160m (Tim Shoppa)
  10. Re: CQ WW CW 160m observations (rayn6vr)
  11. Re: Beverage construction (Donald Chester)
  12. Re: Beverage construction (Mike Waters)
  13. Re: FT8 on 160m (W0MU Mike Fatchett)
  14. Re: CQ WW CW 160m observations (W0MU Mike Fatchett)


--

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 17:01:02 +
From: Lee STRAHAN 
To: Tim Shoppa , Roger Kennedy

Cc: topBand List 
Subject: Re: Topband: BOG pre amp info ?
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"



 Hello Tim and all.
The input impedance of the W7IUV amp is also highly dependent on the 
negative feedback found by looking at the unbypassed base bias circuit. And 
highly dependent on the size of the unbypassed emitter degeneration resistance.
There is a thorough discussion of this by Wes W7ZOI in the ARRL book 
"Experimental Methods in RF Design".
Lee  K7TJR  OR

>Input impedance on the W7IUV preamp is determined almost entirely by the DC 
>bias currents.

>Clifton Labs used to have a really nifty set of pages on modeling and 
>measurement of the various high performance preamps. I really miss that site.

>Tim N3QE

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 9:46 AM, Roger Kennedy < ro...@wessexproductions.co.uk> 
wrote:

> Hi Don
>
> Gosh, really?  Looking at the circuit, and given the resistors used, I
> would have thought the input impedance would be about 800 ohms . . .
>
> And hard to estimate the output impedance, but wouldn't have thought
> it was about 50 ohms.
>
> Guess I'm wrong then !  Sorry about that.
>
> (I already built a FET pre-amp for my Loop . . . but was just
> commenting.)
>
> 73  Roger G3YRO
>
>
>  _
>
> From: Don Kirk [mailto:wd8...@gmail.com]
> Sent: 27 November 2017 13:09
> To: Roger Kennedy
> Cc: topband
> Subject: Re: Topband: BOG pre amp info ?
>
>
>
> HI Roger,
>
>
> You said "However, the circuit seems odd . . . I used transformers in
> and out on my Loop Preamp, to give a match to 50 ohms."
>
>
> I believe your above statement was in reference to the W7IUV preamp.
> I've measured the W7IUV preamp input and output impedances and also
> modeled the W7IUV preamp using LTspice, and both methods yield input
> and output impedances of close to 50 ohms.  Therefore no additional
> components (such as matching transformers) are required for impedance
> matching purposes on the W7IUV preamp.
>
> Just FYI,
> Don (wd8dsb)
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 5:36 AM, Roger Kennedy
>  wrote:
>
>
>
> That's a nice cheap board, and worth using considering it has relay
> switching too . . .
>
> However, the circuit seems odd . . . I used transformers in and out on
> my Loop Preamp, to give a match to 50 ohms.
>
> Roger G3YRO
>
> ---

Re: Topband: 160m Vertical matching Help

[Bryon Paul Veal NØAH]

Rick,

what are the ball park figured on the coil diameter I'm guessing 5 or 
so inches across is a good place to start

Paul. N0AH

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On November 1, 2017 11:25:42 AM "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" 
 wrote:

> You need +j34 ohms in parallel with your coax coming in.
> This is about 3 microhenries.  This would be around 6
> turns on your coil if the turns are spaced a wire
> diameter.  IOW, tap the coax 6 turns from the grounded end.
> Then tap the antenna to whatever tunes to 1.83 MHz.
>
> Rick N6RK
>
> On 11/1/2017 9:54 AM, MR TREVOR DUNNE wrote:
>>
>> Hi All
>>
>>
>>
>> I finally got the vertical up and running, problem I have now is I can't 
>> find a low SWR on the coil, the best I can get is about 2.8:1 no matter 
>> where I tap the coil that's the best SWR, I can move that point up and down 
>> the band by moving the tap but the SWR stays the same,
>>
>> My current set up is about 55ft vertical I have 2 loading wires in a T 
>> shape, wires are 50ft either side of the vertical and the are pretty level 
>> and in line,
>>
>> I have 38 radials averaging about 45-60ft long, I will add more when time 
>> allows but don't the make the SWR worse ??
>>
>> With no coil I get resonance at 2.12mhz with R=16 X=2 on my MFJ269,
>>
>> The coil is 25ft of 5mm copper brake pipe in a 4" diameter, the coil is 
>> attached to base of the vertical and the other end is grounded,
>>
>> Any pointers on what I can do to get a better match,
>>
>> Thanks
>> Trevor
>> EI2GLB
>> _
>> Topband Reflector Archives - 
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>>
>>
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Re: Topband: 160m Vertical matching Help

[Bryon Paul Veal NØAH]

a drawing guys would help

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On November 1, 2017 12:28:35 PM MR TREVOR DUNNE  wrote:

> Thanks everyone for the replies, I'm new to all this so you may go easy on 
> me, I don't understand this R+JX stuff so I need a dummies guide if possible,
>
> I have the vertical section at the top of the coil and I connect the feed 
> line to it where I can get the lowest SWR at 1.825mhz,
>
> Does the amount of coil left under the tap matter I didn't know it would as 
> it's going to ground,
>
> Ideally I don't want to drop the loading wires as they are not easy to get 
> to but I can if I need to,
>
> Thanks
> Trevor
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" 
> To: "MR TREVOR DUNNE" , "topband List" 
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, 1 November, 2017 17:25:25
> Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Vertical matching Help
>
> You need +j34 ohms in parallel with your coax coming in.
> This is about 3 microhenries.  This would be around 6
> turns on your coil if the turns are spaced a wire
> diameter.  IOW, tap the coax 6 turns from the grounded end.
> Then tap the antenna to whatever tunes to 1.83 MHz.
>
> Rick N6RK
>
> On 11/1/2017 9:54 AM, MR TREVOR DUNNE wrote:
>>
>> Hi All
>>
>>
>>
>> I finally got the vertical up and running, problem I have now is I can't 
>> find a low SWR on the coil, the best I can get is about 2.8:1 no matter 
>> where I tap the coil that's the best SWR, I can move that point up and down 
>> the band by moving the tap but the SWR stays the same,
>>
>> My current set up is about 55ft vertical I have 2 loading wires in a T 
>> shape, wires are 50ft either side of the vertical and the are pretty level 
>> and in line,
>>
>> I have 38 radials averaging about 45-60ft long, I will add more when time 
>> allows but don't the make the SWR worse ??
>>
>> With no coil I get resonance at 2.12mhz with R=16 X=2 on my MFJ269,
>>
>> The coil is 25ft of 5mm copper brake pipe in a 4" diameter, the coil is 
>> attached to base of the vertical and the other end is grounded,
>>
>> Any pointers on what I can do to get a better match,
>>
>> Thanks
>> Trevor
>> EI2GLB
>> _
>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>>
>>
> _
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Re: Topband: Unfortunately I also feel that Ham radio is more or less lost.- Hans Hjelmstr?m

[Bryon Paul Veal NØAH]

RF/IP will save amateur radio.  It is a HUGE industry and is  growing by 
leaps and bounds. School's are ridiculously slow in getting RF into 
standard STEM curriculum but it will happen. Kids already use so many 
wireless devices...compare and contrast what they use with what we have and 
the light bulb turns on.

 As for digital, relax, all because you don't like it doesn't mean anything 
to the hobby. 21st century technologies will naturally be what drives our 
hobby, and that is mostly the digital modes.

Yes, there is a gap right now with youth and licensure, but it will close 
soon enough.

 160M rocks, just be glad it has new energy with modes common with the 
times.I just got my 160M DXCC, 92 CW, 6 PH, 2 JT65.  It has easy to 
associate antennas and other components making RF a lot of fun to teach and 
learn and apply to the MW and above stuff you can't see!

73

Paul. N0AH


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On October 25, 2017 9:46:19 AM W0MU Mike Fatchett  wrote:

> Ham radio is not dead.  It has been dying since I got into it.
>
> 1 - Fear of the FCC and loss of license is gone
>
> This was a rarity anyway.  People are still losing their licenses and
> the fines can be huge.
>> 2 - Profanity and other on-air forms of civil disrespect abound
> Society in general acts this way not just hams.  Hams are people too.
>> 3 - 8 and 9-YO EXTRA Class ticket holders - Cracker-Jack-prize
>> ticket-holders
> The tests have been made easier. Why does this matter?  My son who got
> is tech at 13 could of had his extra by 15 but he got his general and
> stopped.  He have very little interest in radio.  Some of it is because
> of the nasty people he has heard and had to deal with, lousy conditions
> and his free time is chewed up with fantasy football, Drones, gaming
> etc.  There are so many more outlets for kids and young people today
> than ever.
>> 4 - Cell phone comms to anywhere in the world kills mystery of radio
> What really has killed radio is the steep price to get in and dwindling
> locations in which to do it.  To be competitive you must have a pretty
> nice station.  That is a major turn off.  You can be a competitive gamer
> with middle of the road computers.
>> 5 - Examine QST's "The Doctor Is In" column and look at questions Extra's
>> are asking
> People have been asking silly questions for years in that column.
>> 6 - It appears today's kids are more interested in gaming as opposed to
>> things math/science
>>   they are just application-experts and have little or no understanding
>> of HOW a computer
>>   functions.(I have to admit my digital hardware skills are quite
>> lacking too.)
> How many kids were interested in ham radio when you were growing up?  I
> bet not many.  I went to a Junior high school and we had one teacher and
> about 8 students interested in a school about about 300 people.  I bet
> that percentage is off the charts high for interest in radio.  I just
> happened to live in a very rural area with a bunch of hams around.
>
> Those gamer kids probably know more about computer than most of us on
> this list.  They know how to over clock and get the most out of their
> rigs, etc.  Different skill sets.  They will be driving unmanned fighter
> jets, drones, tanks and more and will do it far better than any of us.
>
> How many hams can explain how their radios work.  Take a K3 or flex for
> example.  I bet most hams would not be able to tell you how a modern rig
> works.
>> 7 - CC&R restrictions against antennas has crippled many op's driving them
>> to being
>>   repeater-band operators
> Which is why FT8 and other modes like this and whatever is coming will
> keep ham radio alive.
>> 8 - Loss of CW as an entry-into-Ham-Radio-Filter has seriously dumbed-down
>> the technical
>>   side of Ham Radio
> Wrong.  Dead wrong.  There are more people interested in CW now than
> ever.  When you allow people to learn what they want instead of forcing
> them down a path you get more out of them.   I can't tell you the number
> of Parks on the air SSB or county hunter ops that have started to learn
> CW because they want to make more contacts and have figured out CW is
> better when condx suck.
>> 9 - Repeater systems linked together by commercial fiber lines, etc.
> Why is this bad?  Linking is good for statewide coverage, you get to
> talk to more people and the systems are more robust and can handle
> emergency and rescue ops better.
>
>>
>> 73 Dick/w7wkr at CN98pi and CN97uj
>> ===
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 12:23:51 +0200
>> From: Hans Hjelmstr?m 
>> To: Steve Ireland , sm5...@ssa.se,  sm6cmU
>>  , topband@contesting.com
>> Cc: Kjell Nerlich , sm6...@ssa.se,Peter Andersson
>>  
>> Subject: Re: Topband: FT8 - the end of 160m old school DXing? (long)
>> Message-ID: <435447a1-a63a-4146-b55b-f17403d32...@hjelmstrom.se>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; chars

Re: Topband: Best Receive Antenna over Sloping Terrain?

[Bryon Paul Veal NØAH]

Ed,

My E/W K9AY loop is on a slope and works fb..

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On September 1, 2017 2:58:09 AM Ed via Topband  wrote:

> Greetings from Saudi Arabia!  I think a lot about my home QTH in California 
> and how I want to make the most of my antenna potential.
>
> I have an area that I would like to devote to receiving antennas, that's 
> about 150' square feet. Thought about the DXE Active 4 Sq array but they 
> say installing this on Sloping terrain will degrade its performance. In my 
> case, the slope is about 30-35 degrees, so I'm sure that limits me.
>
> The transmitting antenna area is about 300-400 feet away, which provides 
> adequate isolation from where I want to install a receiving antenna. Trying 
> to figure out what is most suitable.  In addition to 160m, I am also 
> interested in BCB DXing and some the demonstrations viewed on YouTube are 
> quite impressive!
>
> Would really appreciate some input. I can always provide my home address, 
> where the two antenna areas can be seen on Google Maps.
>
> 73,
> Ed NI6S/7Z1ES
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