Re: Topband: Elevated Radials EPILOGUE
Now in the most recent 22nd Edition of the ARRL Antenna Book... 3-14 - It goes on to say that a few elevated radials should perform as well as a large number of ground radials And that the signal will improve quickly with just a little elevation... Interesting graph - Figure 3.27 - you need to get to about 30 ground radials to equal 4 elevated. The elevated needed to be symmetric... It goes on from there. I suspect the fairly recent (??) information on the advantages of elevated has let to at least one military study and a ton of other information on the internet... talk about reconditioned AM stations with elevated radial? Buried is safer - but it requires a lot more work and money. But if you can use 8 (???) elevated radials versus 60 buried on 160M we're talking a mile difference in wire. Don't get me wrong, I'm new to this and by no means knowledgeable in the field - but I can say that after reading these two very well know books.. and a ton of stuff on the Internet - which is my specialty.. It's a little confusing.. It's time for Myth Busters Ham Radio. It should be fairly simple I would think.. Poor ground - (X) number of elevated at a specified wave length height - symmetrically laid out... Decent ground - (X) ground or (X) elevated at this wave length height.. etc That should do it for me. If anyone has more "real life" info on this.. email me at my call sign + @hawaii.rr.com 73 Bryan WH7DX [CONFIDENTIALITY AND PRIVACY NOTICE] Information transmitted by this email is proprietary to Mr. & Mrs. B and is intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed, or where ever the hell it ends up, and will almost certainly contain information that will offend a large portion of the population, which isn't our concern. If you are not the intended lucky recipient, or it appears that this mail has been forwarded to you without the proper authority of the Wizard of Email or Al Gore, you are notified that any thought, use, or consumption of this email is entirely your choice. In such case, Bon AppetitNote: A $.02 Internet Tax was charged for receiving this email and all funds were given to some family somewhere in America or the U.N Have a nice day. _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Elevated Radials EPILOGUE
There is some good stuff in ON4UN Low Band Book - Chapter 9-10 on Elevated Radials. He suggests that an elevated system would be even better above ground versus on the ground in poor conditions. References 0.1 wave height or less. For 160m that could be 50 feet down. In Section 2.2.7 K3LC says that there is no point in raising radials any higher than 6 meters on 160 or 3 meters on 80 meters. Such a height would be between 0.2db of what can be achieved with 64 buried radials... N7CL says they need to be higher The perfect on ground system might be 50-100 1/4 wave ground radials... In 2.1.2 he warns of trusting modeling because of outside factors. 9-12 Figure 9-18 (modeling) regarding 160m gain using 1/4 wave is interesting over average ground. If you wanted max. it suggests using 120 - 80meter radials. But the difference between 120 (1.5 dbi gain) and going with 32 (1.0 dbi gain) would make one wonder if it was really worth it for another 1-2 miles of wire.. work? 0.5 dbi gain? The Conclusion in 9-14 is interesting.. basically saying.. "Take the example of an 80-meter vertical over average ground: going from a lousy eight 20-meter long radials to 120 radials would only buy you 1.4db of gain, which is less than what I think it is in reality. In very good ground that difference wold be only 0.7 db!" 2.1.3.2 - "From these almost 70-year old studies, we can conclude that 60 quarter-wave long radials is a cost effective optimal solution for amateur purposes. K3NA's work in 2.3.1.3 talks about using 1/16 wave radials.. not going beyond 48.. but that doesn't match up with N6BV's work several years prior. In 2.2 Elevated Radial and beyond it's gets really interesting and less conclusive? The Conclusion States - "If you want to play it extra safe, and if you have the tower height, get the radials up as high as possible and add a few more. Use a ground screen if you have it. "It all is very logical. Get away from the lossy ground or hide the lossy ground with a dense screen using many radials. No free lunch!". This was one book and it goes on. All of this sounds like a great episode for Ham Radio Myth Busters... 73, Bryan WH7DX [CONFIDENTIALITY AND PRIVACY NOTICE] Information transmitted by this email is proprietary to Mr. & Mrs. B and is intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed, or where ever the hell it ends up, and will almost certainly contain information that will offend a large portion of the population, which isn't our concern. If you are not the intended lucky recipient, or it appears that this mail has been forwarded to you without the proper authority of the Wizard of Email or Al Gore, you are notified that any thought, use, or consumption of this email is entirely your choice. In such case, Bon AppetitNote: A $.02 Internet Tax was charged for receiving this email and all funds were given to some family somewhere in America or the U.N Have a nice day. _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Elevated Radials EPILOGUE
I can't believe that no one has put this really important question to bed already. If I had the land and an existing vertical with a large buried radial system and another tower available.. I would try it out for the sake of Ham Radio :-)) Put up another 160M vertical.. contact a few friends from around North America or International and take some notes. Put 2 1/4 wave elevated radials up in the air.. 10ft. Then try 30ft.. take some notes. How did the control sample compare (buried radials). Should give you an idea of propagation and changes. Put 4 1/4 wave in the air.. (if you noticed a difference with 10ft and 30ft - don't bother with the weaker one) any difference with 4 versus 2? - I'd bet there is... Put 12 1/4 wave in the air...how does that compare? Pretty close to Control Sample??What are the real world results. If it's one "S" unit and I don't need to lay a mile-plus of wire buried in the ground.. that might be enough. I don't think people want to have a ton of elevated radials in the air either - and I'm reading that you don't need to. If you don't want to go with elevated - then bury as many in the ground as you can - have fun... Surely, someone has the room and energy (friends) to give us all the "final" answer to this question. It would be a blast to do. We'll all pitch in some beer money. Please post the results.. :-) P.S. Can someone with a tower also test out a low dipole around 30 ft and then go to 60, 90 and 120 and post the results. I'm thinking a pulley and rope and some quick 10 minutes adjustments for real world results... that one's easy. Bryan WH7DX [CONFIDENTIALITY AND PRIVACY NOTICE] Information transmitted by this email is proprietary to Mr. & Mrs. B and is intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed, or where ever the hell it ends up, and will almost certainly contain information that will offend a large portion of the population, which isn't our concern. If you are not the intended lucky recipient, or it appears that this mail has been forwarded to you without the proper authority of the Wizard of Email or Al Gore, you are notified that any thought, use, or consumption of this email is entirely your choice. In such case, Bon AppetitNote: A $.02 Internet Tax was charged for receiving this email and all funds were given to some family somewhere in America or the U.N Have a nice day. _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: ARRL LOTW and More
Roger... As a new ham operator (1 year now).. I'm impressed by ARRL and what they do. The publications, the website and licensing information and support. The fair cost of membership, the speed of package deliver to Hawaii, email response. The only thing I can complain about is the backlog in LOTW but they're working to fix that now with an upgrade. Not a big deal. It's not like I can't log away in the meantime...I'm also impressed by eqsl and how easy that system is.. well designed and certainly worth uploading logs to.. takes about 60 seconds... export log by date from N1MM.. upload and done...LOTW is just a few more steps. Anyway... as a new operator with no experience and new eyes.. the whole ham radio experience is fascinating.I had no idea how complex it was. So much out there.. so many options.. the licensing levels.. propagation all over the place... up.. down.. closed.. It must have been an interesting experience for those working 20-30-40+ years in Ham.. I can only imagine.Now we have the Internet and the equipment.. I find myself looking up cluster reports while shopping!! I wonder if I could hear them etc... I grew up with computers in the 80s. Old TI-99/4A with cassette recorder for data storage.. I think I need to go blind more often.. no peaking.. :-) Anyway..there's always going to be little issues here and there.. but as a newbie.. it's pretty freak'n awesome! Merry Christmas!! Bryan WH7DX [CONFIDENTIALITY AND PRIVACY NOTICE] Information transmitted by this email is proprietary to Mr. & Mrs. B and is intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed, or where ever the hell it ends up, and will almost certainly contain information that will offend a large portion of the population, which isn't our concern. If you are not the intended lucky recipient, or it appears that this mail has been forwarded to you without the proper authority of the Wizard of Email or Al Gore, you are notified that any thought, use, or consumption of this email is entirely your choice. In such case, Bon AppetitNote: A $.02 Internet Tax was charged for receiving this email and all funds were given to some family somewhere in America or the U.N Have a nice day. ___ It is undesirable to believe a proposition when there is no ground whatsoever for supposing it is true. - Bertrand Russell
Re: Topband: ARRL LOTW and More
You can go to the link below to see current status. They are about 10 days behind. They posted a notice saying they are upgrading the system.. perhaps 5-7 weeks now. Today, technology is cheap and fast so they shouldn't have a problem once they put the right equipment in.. 9 million QSOs to process isn't a big deal. http://www.arrl.org/logbook-queue-status Bryan WH7DX [CONFIDENTIALITY AND PRIVACY NOTICE] Information transmitted by this email is proprietary to Mr. & Mrs. B and is intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed, or where ever the hell it ends up, and will almost certainly contain information that will offend a large portion of the population, which isn't our concern. If you are not the intended lucky recipient, or it appears that this mail has been forwarded to you without the proper authority of the Wizard of Email or Al Gore, you are notified that any thought, use, or consumption of this email is entirely your choice. In such case, Bon AppetitNote: A $.02 Internet Tax was charged for receiving this email and all funds were given to some family somewhere in America or the U.N Have a nice day. ___ It is undesirable to believe a proposition when there is no ground whatsoever for supposing it is true. - Bertrand Russell
Re: Topband: New TX antenna for 80 and 160?
Hello, Your location sounds similar to mine. I'm on a hill about 200 ft up and about 100-150 yards from ocean. I figured I'd throw yet another dipole over the tallest tree behind me. It's only about 30ft off the ground at the center - right next to the 40 and 80M... The 160M ends are about 8 ft and 15 ft I wasn't sure how the TX would work? Concerned at first. My 80M works well.. so I figured - give it a try. Dipole is cheap. Sling-Shot.. Wire.. done... Turns out - with about 600W it works with grey line or without. Reached East Coast, Russia, Chile, Caribbean etc.. on 160M. 5000-8000 miles so far. The problem for me was RX. I put up a 600ft beverage a few feet off the ground going east and it picks up signals I can't hear on other Radio... Probably S5 improvement? You don't NEED the beverage - but it helps big time. For me, it appears my signal was traveling further than my RX before.. call that "barking dog" or something... I use my TS-570 for TX with Dipole and Yaesu 897 with Beverage and use the Array Solutions RF Limiter to protect - keeps it around +40-60db max - not burying the needle. The beverage is also right next to low dipole for 160ft of the run. Doesn't seem to matter. I like have the two radios working the same time and playing with the volume etc.. :-) I would certainly try the Dipole first. Your location might be the equivalent of a 150ft tower on flat land not near the ocean. I figured, if my dipole didn't work.. I'd try the Cushcraft MA160V - good reviews.. low height - not that visible compared to tower - (I can't build a tower). I don't think I need it though. Last night I had a quick QSO with N7DD on LSB and he was 59 and I was 57 (3000 miles). I could hear his contact in Mexico but he couldn't hear me. We were both using beverages.. very clear. That was my first real 160M on phone (Told Larry that.. thank you!!). 160 is pretty much all CW... and my Beverage is only a month old if that. Have fun.. I'd start cheap and go from there. Maybe look into chicken wire to help with the ground. Throw it around the base and just throw a bunch of long wire around where you can. Water it! :-)) I posted this on Low Dipole 160M. Great article. http://lists.contesting.com/pipermail/topband/2012-November/039732.html Bryan WH7DX [CONFIDENTIALITY AND PRIVACY NOTICE] Information transmitted by this email is proprietary to Mr. & Mrs. B and is intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed, or where ever the hell it ends up, and will almost certainly contain information that will offend a large portion of the population, which isn't our concern. If you are not the intended lucky recipient, or it appears that this mail has been forwarded to you without the proper authority of the Wizard of Email or Al Gore, you are notified that any thought, use, or consumption of this email is entirely your choice. In such case, Bon AppetitNote: A $.02 Internet Tax was charged for receiving this email and all funds were given to some family somewhere in America or the U.N Have a nice day. ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: ARRL 160CW from W7DRA
Mike (KH6ND) at KH7X is a nice guy. He's operating at the North Shore on Oahu at a great Ham Radio QTH.Towers.. On a mountain.. Ocean... He holds many records. Traveled all over on expeditions.. I was fortunate to met him through my elmer (KH6R). Helped him move recently, and he gave me all his magazines and misc. stuff. He travels back to Hawaii for some contests. It used to be kh6yy http://www.kh6yy.net/ Glad you made the KH6 contact. Bryan WH7DX [CONFIDENTIALITY AND PRIVACY NOTICE] Information transmitted by this email is proprietary to Mr. & Mrs. B and is intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed, or where ever the hell it ends up, and will almost certainly contain information that will offend a large portion of the population, which isn't our concern. If you are not the intended lucky recipient, or it appears that this mail has been forwarded to you without the proper authority of the Wizard of Email or Al Gore, you are notified that any thought, use, or consumption of this email is entirely your choice. In such case, Bon AppetitNote: A $.02 Internet Tax was charged for receiving this email and all funds were given to some family somewhere in America or the U.N Have a nice day. ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: 230+ QSLs On LOW Dipole - There's Hope!
I got my first confirmation that the low dipole is working and not just transmitting straight up into the air.. Last night my Elmer came over to play around with the CQ CW... Around 11PM Hawaii Time or 09:00 UTC... He worked 18 stations in one hour. (I'm in the process of learning CW). All over the U.S., Jamaica and Curacao. K3LR, W8UVZ, K7BG, AJ6T, W0AIH, N6ML, N0IJ, KF4Y, N7AT, K9CT, W7CB, N6MW, W6PH, W3LPL, W5TVN, 6Y3M, K0RF, PJ2T (5824 miles) The conditions weren't ideal with a few thunderstorms around the islands and A7 / K3. Not real quiet. The Array Solutions RF limiter works well with the Yaesu 897D and Beverage Antenna to protect the receiver (S-5 to S+20 or so). The beverage makes a clear difference. It looks like we were getting about 500W out of the 811H with the slightly inverted dipole about 30 feet off the ground at the center and 15 on the ends. Because of the lack of coax the beverage is about 30 feet to the side of the low dipole approx. running down about 180ft of the dipole antenna.. and then on for another 420ft etc. It doesn't seem to cause any problems. I like tuning the two radios and turning the volume down on the TX while listening on the RX radio. It's a little more work than using the DX Engineering Auto Switch but it was a simple hook-up and I wasn't even sure if my TX would work?? :-) I'm pretty sure the 230ft off the ocean with quick drop-off and proximity help. I'd like to model my antenna's to see. Thank you guys!That made my weekend.Now I can play with this and get my CW going. Bryan WH7DX [CONFIDENTIALITY AND PRIVACY NOTICE] Information transmitted by this email is proprietary to Mr. & Mrs. B and is intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed, or where ever the hell it ends up, and will almost certainly contain information that will offend a large portion of the population, which isn't our concern. If you are not the intended lucky recipient, or it appears that this mail has been forwarded to you without the proper authority of the Wizard of Email or Al Gore, you are notified that any thought, use, or consumption of this email is entirely your choice. In such case, Bon AppetitNote: A $.02 Internet Tax was charged for receiving this email and all funds were given to some family somewhere in America or the U.N Have a nice day. ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: 230+ QSLs On LOW Dipole - There's Hope!
I did a search for K2UO here and didn't see anything recent, so I thought I would post the article again for those with Low Dipoles or tight spaces. Mentioned in ON4UN's book. http://vss.pl/lf/14.pdf K2UO was #61 for North America (2009) with an antenna that is 12-30ft high on flat land was using 100W for the first 75 Countries. Then added Amp and Beverage. 2009 Data (anyone have the link to current data?) http://www.qsl.net/160/ [CONFIDENTIALITY AND PRIVACY NOTICE] Information transmitted by this email is proprietary to Mr. & Mrs. B and is intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed, or where ever the hell it ends up, and will almost certainly contain information that will offend a large portion of the population, which isn't our concern. If you are not the intended lucky recipient, or it appears that this mail has been forwarded to you without the proper authority of the Wizard of Email or Al Gore, you are notified that any thought, use, or consumption of this email is entirely your choice. In such case, Bon AppetitNote: A $.02 Internet Tax was charged for receiving this email and all funds were given to some family somewhere in America or the U.N Have a nice day. ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: TX/ RX Antenna Switching
Yes, I didn't get that right and makes sense. Only 50W on my Radio.. 1/2 power into Amp. I'm obviously not electronically edumacated (as they say in Hawaii :-).. just trying to figure out how to reach out without spending an arm/leg or hurting anything :-) I ordered the Array AS-RXFEB to try it out. It's the easiest way to install. I'm going to use the TS-570 for TX and Yaesu 987 for RX. For me, I should be able to tell pretty easily if it works or not I would think? The Beverage itself should be a nice improvement as a directional to NE (Mainland U.S.) What's the RX with and without the product attached to antenna? Can I tell a difference by ear? See an S difference? I would try 5 watts without the filter on and see what it shows? Maxed out? Try 10 watts with and without etc... I looked up the instructions for DX RTR-1 Switch and Diagram 2 is what I'd be using. 811H amp. Beverage, Amp Buffer etc... If I'm not satisfied with Array on 2nd Radio (having to adjust volume might be an annoying issue).. I think the DX is the second choice. http://static.dxengineering.com/global/images/instructions/dxe-rtr-1a-rev1.pdf I'm using a DX Eng. 4 Port Switch for Hex, 40, 80 and 160M dipole. I might go with the Cushcraft MA-160V if not satisfied with Dipole. (limited space and height issues). When everyone was trying to reach PT0S a few days ago.. I was getting clear signals from all over the U.S. & East Coast was no problem 5-7 (my noise is usually around S3-4 on low Dipole - with 200ft ocean drop nearby). Not too close to city.. on point. East Coast from me is nearly 5000 miles and it was a pileup. I recorded it on phone to have friend tell me call signs (getting ready to learn CW now). Yesterday.. Noise level was S0-S1. Very quiet. Thank you!! Bryan. [CONFIDENTIALITY AND PRIVACY NOTICE] Information transmitted by this email is proprietary to Mr. & Mrs. B and is intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed, or where ever the hell it ends up, and will almost certainly contain information that will offend a large portion of the population, which isn't our concern. If you are not the intended lucky recipient, or it appears that this mail has been forwarded to you without the proper authority of the Wizard of Email or Al Gore, you are notified that any thought, use, or consumption of this email is entirely your choice. In such case, Bon AppetitNote: A $.02 Internet Tax was charged for receiving this email and all funds were given to some family somewhere in America or the U.N Have a nice day. ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: TX/ RX Antenna Switching
Thanks for input. Because I'm using two different radios for TX / RX - This product from Array sounds like a simple fix to RF overload. I think if I was using one radio and needed to switch - I'd go with the other products. I guess I'll see about any volume? issues with that setup?Do my own audio sounds checks??? :-) Turn volume on Beverage RX Yaesu up and down as needed to hear signals not available to TX antenna... ??? I think I should take the advise I was given and move beverage as far away as possible... but probably only 100-150ft is what I have to work with. Bryan WH7DX [CONFIDENTIALITY AND PRIVACY NOTICE] Information transmitted by this email is proprietary to Mr. & Mrs. B and is intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed, or where ever the hell it ends up, and will almost certainly contain information that will offend a large portion of the population, which isn't our concern. If you are not the intended lucky recipient, or it appears that this mail has been forwarded to you without the proper authority of the Wizard of Email or Al Gore, you are notified that any thought, use, or consumption of this email is entirely your choice. In such case, Bon AppetitNote: A $.02 Internet Tax was charged for receiving this email and all funds were given to some family somewhere in America or the U.N Have a nice day. ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: TX/ RX Antenna Switching
Thanks guys. It sounds like the DX and MFJ are out because of Watt limitations (200W?). There are two Front End Savers so far.. KD9SV Front End Saver and OK1RR Saver And there's this.. which sounds simple if I want to use my Yaesu 987 for the Beverage RX only. No changes to main rig config. Just add Box to Yaesu Ant.?? ICE PRODUCT - RF Limit - Signal Protector (just saw this) Limit to S-9 +60DB? With lightning arrestor for $60. >>Here is a trick unit that is ideal for serious listeners on HF, VHF, and UHF. >>Receiver protector limits input RF signal threshold at any frequency at >>0.3VRMS to protect receiver front end from damage due to nearby transmitted >>fields. Receiver still acts normally and measured signal strength is not >>affected. Circuit uses a multi-stage design of transformer saturation coupling and current limiters. Models 196 and 198 are receive RF limiting only, while models 197 and 199 offer the same but with our constant-drain, capacitor-blocked lightning arrestor technology built in to the same unit. For all receivers, especially the new broadband super-sensitive solid state units. Low frequency models are fitted with RCA pin connectors while high frequency units are BNC. N connectors available on request. Chassis measure (HWD) 1" x 2" x 3", weight one pound, packed with 4 page owner's manual / data sheet.<< [CONFIDENTIALITY AND PRIVACY NOTICE] Information transmitted by this email is proprietary to Mr. & Mrs. B and is intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed, or where ever the hell it ends up, and will almost certainly contain information that will offend a large portion of the population, which isn't our concern. If you are not the intended lucky recipient, or it appears that this mail has been forwarded to you without the proper authority of the Wizard of Email or Al Gore, you are notified that any thought, use, or consumption of this email is entirely your choice. In such case, Bon AppetitNote: A $.02 Internet Tax was charged for receiving this email and all funds were given to some family somewhere in America or the U.N Have a nice day. ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: TX/ RX Antenna Switching
The DX switch only handles 200 watts and the MFJ is about the same. Being as popular as 800+ watts is for 160 with two antennas tx rx there must be more I would think? I need to check manual. Do transceivers config for auto setup and switching with antennas now? How to handle input power off beverage near 800+ watts tx Need to search some more. Sent from my iPhone ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: TX/ RX Antenna Switching
I need to figure out what's the best way to connect a beverage antenna for RX and my dipole for TX. I have a TS-570 and I can use the Antenna 1 & 2 connection - but then I'd need to manually remember to switch when transmitting etc. don't want to damage the beverage. I have a Yaesu 987 that I can use as a dedicated Beverage RX but I'm concerned about overload from TX antenna nearby. I'm using a 811H with about 400-600W showing up on my meter. I use a DX 4 port switch for my 40,80,160 and HEX. So run the Beverage to Antenna 2 or Yaesu? A friend mentioned, that If I'm going to use a foot pedal.. perhaps wiring the PTT? to the Yaesu to switch it into TX with no MIC.. I haven't looked that up yet. Basically, protecting RX by going into TX and no output?? I've seen this MFJ device which sounds like it might work? http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-1708 There is also this DX Engineering device that might work? http://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-rtr-1 It seems to me that most are using a Beverage and TX so it must be very common and simple? Any suggestions? Thank you! Bryan [CONFIDENTIALITY AND PRIVACY NOTICE] Information transmitted by this email is proprietary to Mr. & Mrs. B and is intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed, or where ever the hell it ends up, and will almost certainly contain information that will offend a large portion of the population, which isn't our concern. If you are not the intended lucky recipient, or it appears that this mail has been forwarded to you without the proper authority of the Wizard of Email or Al Gore, you are notified that any thought, use, or consumption of this email is entirely your choice. In such case, Bon AppetitNote: A $.02 Internet Tax was charged for receiving this email and all funds were given to some family somewhere in America or the U.N Have a nice day. ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Outing The Scofflaws...
I don't like seeing all the comments I'm reading in the cluster reports. It's sad.. but it will pass soon. Like someone else pointed out.. I'd hate to see people turn away from all the hassles of an expedition like PT0S because of the acts of some. I haven't had contact with PT0S yet but I know there is still plenty of time. It's like a Black Friday Sale for them right now. Crazy. We just need to count on people to do the right thing and hope this unique group of tech nerds don't go down the same social garbage disposal as other areas in our Country right now. That's my $.02 Bryan, WH7DX [CONFIDENTIALITY AND PRIVACY NOTICE] Information transmitted by this email is proprietary to Mr. & Mrs. B and is intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed, or where ever the hell it ends up, and will almost certainly contain information that will offend a large portion of the population, which isn't our concern. If you are not the intended lucky recipient, or it appears that this mail has been forwarded to you without the proper authority of the Wizard of Email or Al Gore, you are notified that any thought, use, or consumption of this email is entirely your choice. In such case, Bon AppetitNote: A $.02 Internet Tax was charged for receiving this email and all funds were given to some family somewhere in America or the U.N Have a nice day. ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna
I'll look into the chicken wire. I heard about that. That sounds good. I should be able to run it to the right and left of the terminated end. Stick a piece of copper in the ground too.. some wires.. a few long ones... :-) On the feed line I can use some of the same, just not as much is necessary. Because of my location, I can't put up a 100' tower. I'm using the largest tree over my wall for the dipoles. What I can do is install a self-supporting vertical on the back side that isn't very visible from the street. Something like this? I have a Henry's Aluminum Coated Roof... I wonder how that would act as a ground? 60+ gallons put on within that last year. Run a sprinkler on it for the contests.. hahaha http://www.cushcraftamateur.com/Product.php?productid=MA-160V Put an antenna to the left of the hex beam... run some radials over the wall up the mountain? Copper strap to roof? Looks like I'm going to play with the Dipole and Beverage for a while and then probably pull the dipole down and put up something like the MA-160V in the future? Use RG-6 line in the future and run another Beverage in the opposite direction - NW. The bottom photo shows where I would put it... on left of hex beam. I don't think Hex would be a problem.. only about 20 feet away though. I can get Vertical over Hex is needed. http://www.qrz.com/db/WH7DX [CONFIDENTIALITY AND PRIVACY NOTICE] Information transmitted by this email is proprietary to Mr. & Mrs. B and is intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed, or where ever the hell it ends up, and will almost certainly contain information that will offend a large portion of the population, which isn't our concern. If you are not the intended lucky recipient, or it appears that this mail has been forwarded to you without the proper authority of the Wizard of Email or Al Gore, you are notified that any thought, use, or consumption of this email is entirely your choice. In such case, Bon AppetitNote: A $.02 Internet Tax was charged for receiving this email and all funds were given to some family somewhere in America or the U.N Have a nice day. ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna
I was just reading about SALT spray in Hawaii and the what it does to the soil.. I never thought about that. Salt spray and not much rain for me. Salty volcanic top soil/rock? Again, thanks for all the emails.Helped walk it through. Going N/E and taking it as far away from Dipoles as 125ft of coax will take me :-) Cutting 8ft copper grounding rod into 2 or more pieces. Can't pound them in very far... will need to drill them in as anchors for radials. Using radial wire (whatever I can get here).. to run some wires out from the copper ground at the feed point (attach one to galvanized fence in the area??) and put MORE on the terminated end.. one or two long ones 100ft? I'm wondering if I'll see a difference in performance when it rains and washes away the salt spray on the ground? This was an interesting site... the Top Band info was really useful. http://www.chem.hawaii.edu/uham/index.html This is funny... so Hawaii... The first problem is to get from the traditional local "relative directions" such as Mauka, to actual compass references, the concepts seldom used in Hawaii such as "north" and "east". Streets are usually not much help at all, since they seem to delight in going on all sorts of wierd angles. Besides, when North and South King Street run mostly east and west and North King is south of South King Street, it is not surprising that few in Hawaii can actually point north from any given location. In fact, finding any map of Hawaii that contains latitude and longitude lines is a struggle, and many maps of Hawaii seem to have even given up on the tradition of printing maps with north at the top! [CONFIDENTIALITY AND PRIVACY NOTICE] Information transmitted by this email is proprietary to Mr. & Mrs. B and is intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed, or where ever the hell it ends up, and will almost certainly contain information that will offend a large portion of the population, which isn't our concern. If you are not the intended lucky recipient, or it appears that this mail has been forwarded to you without the proper authority of the Wizard of Email or Al Gore, you are notified that any thought, use, or consumption of this email is entirely your choice. In such case, Bon AppetitNote: A $.02 Internet Tax was charged for receiving this email and all funds were given to some family somewhere in America or the U.N Have a nice day. ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna
Thanks for the input guys. Very helpful. I guess those emails don't show up here (private)? New to this system. Forget what I said about dipole radiating right off the ends of the line - straight out.. I thought I read that in one of my books and it said that most people didn't know that.. but it looks like I misread it or something because I can't find anything on Internet supporting that. Just broadside to wire. AA0RS might have been directional - and not in my direction :-) Filters.. possibly filtering out the signal by accident or operator error :-) Using a TS-570G and I'm thinking about using my Yaesu 987 for Beverage? Easier than trying to remember to switch antennas? Any have any comments on grounding needs with beverage over hard volcanic ash rock and dry bushes on a mountain... Just run a bunch of radials on the ground. Drill in a copper rod as far as possible to hold down radials? [CONFIDENTIALITY AND PRIVACY NOTICE] Information transmitted by this email is proprietary to Mr. & Mrs. B and is intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed, or where ever the hell it ends up, and will almost certainly contain information that will offend a large portion of the population, which isn't our concern. If you are not the intended lucky recipient, or it appears that this mail has been forwarded to you without the proper authority of the Wizard of Email or Al Gore, you are notified that any thought, use, or consumption of this email is entirely your choice. In such case, Bon AppetitNote: A $.02 Internet Tax was charged for receiving this email and all funds were given to some family somewhere in America or the U.N Have a nice day. ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna
Tonight right after sunset I heard AA0RS in Colorado for sure. He popped up on the cluster right then. (I need to learn CW). He was 5-5 on LSB but only 5-1 on CW. I was surprised I couldn't hear him that strong on CW because he was loud and clear on LSB. That's pretty unusual? I believe I also had N2RK in NY before.. not positive. I could just faintly hear the DK station. If I didn't see the cluster I wouldn't have known. My grey line is Africa/Russia. Does it seem like my low altitude dipole is working ok. Colorado is 3300 miles to the NE and my dipole is NE / SW with another 450ft of hill right behind me over the NE. I read that the dipole also radiates right off the ends outward. LY7M AA0RS 1827.0 339 0412z 09 Nov RA4LWAA0RS 1827.0 339hr at my SR 0401z 09 Nov SV3RFAA0RS 1827.0 cq 0359z 09 Nov DK2CHDK2CH 1839.5 cq on BPSK310356z 09 Nov RK4FLLY7M 1832.0 [LoTW] CQing0332z 09 Nov RA4LWLY7M 1832.0 [LoTW] cqn 0330z 09 Nov LY7M S57S 1823.1 [LoTW] cq 0317z 09 Nov RA4LWN2RK 1831.2 cq machine 0310z 09 Nov RA4LWN2RK 1831.2 si freq 0307z 09 Nov LY7M N2RK 1831.4 579 0307z 09 Nov [CONFIDENTIALITY AND PRIVACY NOTICE] Information transmitted by this email is proprietary to Mr. & Mrs. B and is intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed, or where ever the hell it ends up, and will almost certainly contain information that will offend a large portion of the population, which isn't our concern. If you are not the intended lucky recipient, or it appears that this mail has been forwarded to you without the proper authority of the Wizard of Email or Al Gore, you are notified that any thought, use, or consumption of this email is entirely your choice. In such case, Bon AppetitNote: A $.02 Internet Tax was charged for receiving this email and all funds were given to some family somewhere in America or the U.N Have a nice day. ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna
After some more reading... It looks like NE is the best approach. Point it towards North America. I can probably get it pointed at the lower states. I wasn't sure if I wanted to go bi-directional or not and try and get Australia / NZ but I think I'll go for quiet and just try NA for now. I will need to take it up about 50-75 feet from the feed point I would guess. I don't now if an elevated beverage would be a negative. The ground is mostly hard old volcanic ash with loose dirt here and there.. just enough to make you fall down It's usually always dry and I'm thinking it is a very poor ground. Drill a few holes for copper ground rods on both side? Put about 10 radial wires on the rods and spread them around. In Hawaii I'm thinking bailing wire but it will rust. Fence wire isn't common. Question.. I was going to start the beverage pretty close to the 40, 80 & 160 dipole in the tree.. I'm low on LMR400. Last of my spool. If it was important, I could order more from mainland and start it higher on the mountain - giving me a more horizontal antenna. Should I be concerned with the beverage distance, using it for receiving and probably on a different radio? Thank you. Bryan WH7DX [CONFIDENTIALITY AND PRIVACY NOTICE] Information transmitted by this email is proprietary to Mr. & Mrs. B and is intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed, or where ever the hell it ends up, and will almost certainly contain information that will offend a large portion of the population, which isn't our concern. If you are not the intended lucky recipient, or it appears that this mail has been forwarded to you without the proper authority of the Wizard of Email or Al Gore, you are notified that any thought, use, or consumption of this email is entirely your choice. In such case, Bon AppetitNote: A $.02 Internet Tax was charged for receiving this email and all funds were given to some family somewhere in America or the U.N Have a nice day. ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna
This is my first post so I hope this is correct. Not sure where it's going.. how it's linked in the thread? I have a 160M dipole up as high as I can. About 40 feet at center and 20 feet at ends in the trees. On a sloping hill.. 200ft above ocean that is <100 yards away. South and East are my strong locations (height, no noise, ocean) I live in Hawaii. On 160 Dipole I've been able to hear Europe at times and North America. I don't know CW yet, but a friend had the first CW contact to the west coast recently. No grey band etc.. So I wasn't just radiating straight up? I almost had contact with either Taiwan or Togo S. Africa (which was grey line). I was only getting a garbled message - couldn't make it out. Pretty sure I heard WH7 two times. It was loud in (4-5) in and out but too garbled. Noticed those two on the cluster at 1.830 shortly after. Hardly any activity at the time etc. Noise is usually about 3-4. 1.808 has a constant noise. That's not the NJ problem is it?? I'm going to run a 600ft Beverage and I'm thinking of putting that on my Yaesu 987 with tuner as a receiving antenna. More fail safe than using Antenna 1 & 2 on my Kenwood 570 and forgetting to switch while broadcasting. The hill behind my house continues up to about 650ft. To the right is east and the same elevation. My dipole is behind the house running parallel to the property - East / West. I guess I'm terminated the end of the beverage and I'm just wondering the best direction to run it. It's either up the hill which is more North or to the East? I'm thinking more East? I don't know if running a beverage up a hill is a good idea. I'd like to point it S/E but that's not possible with Coax location. East?? I have a 40 & 80 dipole in the same location and they are able to work NA and the Pacific. http://maps.google.com/maps?q=5+lumahai+street&ll=21.261021,-157.704674&spn=0.004279,0.0053&client=safari&oe=UTF-8&hnear=5+Lumahai+St,+Honolulu,+Hawaii+96825&gl=us&t=h&z=18 [CONFIDENTIALITY AND PRIVACY NOTICE] Information transmitted by this email is proprietary to Mr. & Mrs. B and is intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed, or where ever the hell it ends up, and will almost certainly contain information that will offend a large portion of the population, which isn't our concern. If you are not the intended lucky recipient, or it appears that this mail has been forwarded to you without the proper authority of the Wizard of Email or Al Gore, you are notified that any thought, use, or consumption of this email is entirely your choice. In such case, Bon AppetitNote: A $.02 Internet Tax was charged for receiving this email and all funds were given to some family somewhere in America or the U.N Have a nice day. ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
