Re: Topband: QRP on 160?

[Mike Furrey]

Appears so! I need to find my QRP watt meter and check it.
   On Tuesday, July 2, 2024 at 09:31:40 AM CDT, Ken WA8JXM  
wrote:  
 
 Ah!  So "zero power" on a K3 is not actually zero?!   Good to know!
Ken WA8JXM
On Tue, Jul 2, 2024 at 9:46 AM Mike Furrey  wrote:

 I accidentally made a QRP Q on 160 ... I had just moved and set up my station 
and wanted to test a feature off the air but couldn't find a dummy load. 
So, I cranked the power of the K3 to zero, dropped my call, NO3M came back 
with a report. That dude has some ears!
73, Mike WA5POK

    On Monday, July 1, 2024 at 10:59:20 PM CDT, Ken WA8JXM  
wrote:  

 For the younger crowd, 25 watts was the max power allowed in several 160m
segments (especially the opposite coast) back in the 60's and 70's.  100w
was the max anywhere in the U.S.

When I first got on 160 in 1964, working two states away was
often considered DX for me!

Yes, there were exceptional stations, but they were rare.

Ken WA8JXM

On Mon, Jul 1, 2024 at 1:57 PM Radio KH6O  wrote:

> Is anyone regularly using say, 25W or less on 160?
>
> --
> 73,
> Jeff KH6O / 6
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Re: Topband: QRP on 160?

[Mike Furrey]

 I accidentally made a QRP Q on 160 ... I had just moved and set up my station 
and wanted to test a feature off the air but couldn't find a dummy load. 
So, I cranked the power of the K3 to zero, dropped my call, NO3M came back 
with a report. That dude has some ears!
73, Mike WA5POK

On Monday, July 1, 2024 at 10:59:20 PM CDT, Ken WA8JXM  
wrote:  
 
 For the younger crowd, 25 watts was the max power allowed in several 160m
segments (especially the opposite coast) back in the 60's and 70's.  100w
was the max anywhere in the U.S.

When I first got on 160 in 1964, working two states away was
often considered DX for me!

Yes, there were exceptional stations, but they were rare.

Ken WA8JXM

On Mon, Jul 1, 2024 at 1:57 PM Radio KH6O  wrote:

> Is anyone regularly using say, 25W or less on 160?
>
> --
> 73,
> Jeff KH6O / 6
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Re: Topband: K9AY minimum spacing from TX

[Mike Furrey]

 Well, on a small suburban lot with TALL pine trees (four and a large sweet gum 
tree in a square of 50 x60 feet), I had an inverted L with one L shaped 
elevated radial on the perimeter of the lot. One leg of the K9AY loop was about 
6' away from the elevated radial. On receive I switched in an inductor to 
de-tune the transmit antenna to keep noise from being re-radiated to the loop. 

Now on transmit, a resistor burned up in the relay box. I added the same 
resistance except about 20 watts worth of dissipation and that took care of 
that problem. I used no more than 600 watts output in the Houston area.

I did notice some directivity problems with the loop with the proximity of the 
wire and trees but still the signal to noise ratio was improved enough to work 
what I could not hear the the vertical. 

When living in TN I had a larger lot and used a top loaded vertical and the 
K9AY loop is about 50 feet from the transmit antenna and the loop seems to show 
better directivity.I do not worry much about signal directivity but noticed 
that I have better results when I orient the loop to null the noise.

I hope this helps. 73, Mike WA5POK



On Thursday, December 7, 2023 at 04:52:29 AM EST, Ashraf Chaabane 
 wrote:  
 
 Hi All,

How far should a K9AY be spaced from resonant antenna? I presume there is
no impact from nearby trees.

Please advise.
-- 
Ash ~ 3V8SS/KF5EYY
http://www.kf5eyy.info/
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Re: Topband: "Tower Maintenance for Radio Amateurs"

[Mike Furrey]

 As for a Valentine's Day club meeting ... The YL here is also a ham and 
understands the show BUT we are skipping our meeting tonight to go to dinner. 
The club is also a repeater club so ...
73, Mike WA5POK

On Tuesday, February 14, 2023 at 11:46:34 AM CST, Dino Darling 
 wrote:  
 
 The question now is how to tell the wife we'll go to valentines dinner 
tomorrow. Any advice?


Dino - KX6D

From: Topband  on behalf of 
Robert Urban 
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2023 3:33:18 PM
To: Topband reflector 
Subject: Topband: "Tower Maintenance for Radio Amateurs"

*The Madison DX Club's February 14, 2023 Program is:*

*Tower Maintenance for Radio Amateurs*
By Don Daso K4ZA, Author of ARRL’s "Antenna Towers for Radio Amateurs"

Happy Valentine’s Day! Love is in the air; is your antenna?  Tonight’s
speaker will help us plan for the work we need to do regularly to keep our
towers safe and useable.  This is a chance to hear from Don, K4ZA who has
seen and done it all when it comes to towers and antennas. There will be
ample time for discussion and questions.

  - 6:00 Central Time to socialize before the business meeting begins and
  to provide time to work through any technical issues.
  - A brief business meeting will begin at 6:30 Central Time.
  - The program will begin immediately following the meeting at
    approximately 7:15 Central Time. Please note time change for Program
  start, due to N9LB’s presentation in our business meeting on current
  DXpedtions, we need to allocate more time for our business meeting this
  month

*UTC Time: Informal chat starts at z Feb 15, Business Meeting at 0030z
Feb 15, Program at 0115z 15 February 2023*

*Business Meeting Agenda:*

·        Treasurer’s Report

·        How’s DX?  *Special report by Lloyd N9LB*

·        Member Activities

·        Club's YouTube Channel & Web page

·        watch programs you may have missed

·        subscribe

·        *like* (thumbs up) programs

·        check out the updated and up to date info on our page.

·        minutes

·        program info

·        link to YouTube channel

·        how to join

·        New Business

·        Adjournment



Hope to see you all on Zoom, Tuesday evening.

*Kevin Shea, N9JKP*

*President, Madison DX Club*

*n9...@arrl.net *

Web site: Madison DX Club 



 Kevin Shea is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting.

Join Zoom Meeting
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/8561554523?pwd=MFE3d1dXYWc1MGw4MDZtSEZ4bEp6Zz09&from=addon
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Re: Topband: 1:2 UNUN

[Mike Furrey]

 Perhaps a "hair pin" match? I used a hair pin coil at the base of a vertical 
that was 35 ohms.

73, Mike WA5POK


 On Monday, January 17, 2022, 01:36:12 PM EST, Tim Duffy  
wrote:  
 
 I match my 26 ohm feed point with a simple L network. One series coil then a
shunt capacitor. Steps up to 50 ohms perfectly.

73
Tim K3LR

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+k3lr=k3lr@contesting.com] On
Behalf Of Richard (Rick) Karlquist
Sent: Monday, January 17, 2022 1:10 PM
To: Kenny Silverman; TopBand List
Subject: Re: Topband: 1:2 UNUN

Maybe this will help:

I use a 1:2.25 Unun (3 to 2 turns ratio).  It will match 22.2 ohms
to 50 ohms.  It is wound on a single 2.4 inch diameter core of 77
material.  A pair of RG-58 coax cables are wound around it in
tandem.  I put on as many turns as would fit ... about 10 turns.
The shields of the two coax cables are wired in parallel.

This results in essentially a trifilar winding (1.  The shields;
2.  One of the center conductors  3. The other center conductor)
This trifilar winding can then be connected in the usual way to
get a 3 to 2 turns ratio autotransformer).  The order of the
connections is:  center conductor #1, then the shields, then
the #2 center conductor, in series.  The radio drives
the 3 windings in series, and the antenna is tapped down to
utilize only 2 of them.  I run this at 1,500 watts in
contests with no problems at all.

The concept is extensible to a quadfilar winding constructed
from 3 coax cables in tandem (shields in parallel).  This can
be wired with a 4 to 3 turns ratio resulting in a 1:1.77 UNUN.
This matches 28.125 ohms to 50 ohms.  An alternate modality
I have used is to use two coax cables as in the 1:2.25 UNUN,
but make one of the coax cables from tri-ax.

I can highly recommend UNUN's for the convenience factor if
your drive impedance is compatible with the available ratios.
They are broadband, no tuning.

73
Rick N6RK

On 1/17/2022 6:18 AM, Kenny Silverman wrote:
> Does anyone have a drawing on how to wind a 1500w 1:2 UNUN?  And what type
of core is needed?
> 
> This is for my 160m vertical which is about 28 ohms.
> 
> Regards , Kenny K2KW
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Re: Topband: K9AY Loop Questions

[Mike Furrey]

 I used the K9AY loop on a 60' by 90' suburban lot near Houston. My transmit 
antenna was an inverted L between two very tall pine trees. and one side of the 
AY loop 
was 6' from the single elevated radial of the inverted L. I had to detune the L 
because too much noise was radiated to the loop and I had to replace the 
resistors with 5 watt
ratings to keep from burning them up on transmit. 
The AY loop was the difference between working stations or not working 
stations. I did orient it for nulling noise and not peaking
stations since it does have a fairly broad pattern. 

When I live near Sewannee, TN on top of a sandstone plateau, my first install 
of the AY loop did not work. Laying down eight 25' radials
brought it to life. I did lay out a 600' beverage and noted a quite a 
difference between the two antennas. 

At times the noise reduction is not much but it may be enough for working a 
weak station for a new one.

I will install the AY loop at my WTX QTH.

73, Mike WA5POK
 On Sunday, January 2, 2022, 10:29:42 AM EST, Pete Smith N4ZR 
 wrote:  
 
 I recently installed a K9AY loop (with the Array Solutions controller), 
and have a couple of questions.  Installation is pretty standard, with a 
fiberglass pole at the center, ground rod at its base, and on the ground 
radials under each direction of the loop.

The antenna is directional, as demonstrated by tuning in broadcast 
stations at the high end of the AM band and separating stations on the 
same frequency so that I can hear one or the other.  Atmospheric noise 
is 1-2 S units more on my inverted L than on the K9AY antenna, but 
signal strengths of stations in the favored direction of the loop seem 
about the same or a bit lower than the inverted L.  The Termination 
adjustment is working, to judge by the switching transients, but seems 
to make little or no difference.

How do these results compare with others' experience?  I didn't expect a 
"magic bullet", but the K9AY loop seems a little bit underwhelming.

-- 
73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the new Reverse Beacon Network
web server at.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.
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Re: Topband: K9AY Loop Proximity to Structures

[Mike Furrey]

 I had  the K9AY loop in my back yard at my old QTH in Spring, TX. I quickly 
learned to orient the loop for noise reduction (had a noisy strip shopping 
center about a half mile due east) rather than signal strength. The North loop 
aimed through the house (about 20' from the house) but I could still hear 
Europe better on the loop than the 160 inverted L. Just my observations.

73, Mike WA5POK
On Sunday, January 24, 2021, 11:46:44 AM EST, Kees Nijdam 
 wrote:  
 
 Pete, in my previous QTH the pole of the K9AY was in the corner of my house, 
both loops partly running alongside the walls.
I had good nuls in all four directions and Iworked 230 dxcc on topband.

Kees, PE5T

Verzonden vanuit Mail voor Windows 10

Van: Tim Shoppa
Verzonden: zondag 24 januari 2021 16:53
Aan: N4ZR; topBand List
Onderwerp: Re: Topband: K9AY Loop Proximity to Structures

Pete, I live in a residential neighborhood (not the most dense by any
means), and all my receive antennas will point towards my house or a nearby
neighbor's house.

There are certainly buzzes and whines in parts of 160M that are accentuated
in some directions on some RX antennas and not so much in other directions
and other antennas. Presumably these are a wide spectrum of consumer
electronic devices. But (other than my daughter's horrible RFI producing
LED strip power supply which has been banished, replaced by a linear
supply) I can't say any one direction or antenna is overall worse than any
other direction.

When I'm picking a run frequency I tend to stay away from the worst of the
buzzes and whines. The buzzes and whines wander and turn on and off. So
sometimes what was a good run frequency is not so good later in the night.
After midnight I think folks turn off their TV's and computers and I can
tell the buzzes and whines bother me less.

If you are worried about the directivity of the K9AY being affected by
nearby structures, you might carefully listen to stations in various
directions and figure out where the nulls are for each loop/direction. The
null on a K9AY loop is very pronounced (unlike the forward directionality
which is very broad). I see no indication that my house (which is less than
40 feet away from the K9AY I use most often) and the neighborhood chain
line fences (which are less than 30 feet away from the K9AY) affects the
null direction.

Tim N3QE

On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 9:29 AM N4ZR  wrote:

> When I put up my K9AY loop, it was convenient to do so at a location in
> my back yard where I already had a stub of tubing (from a defunct
> birdhouse) protruding above ground.  I didn't think about it before
> this, but that puts the northeast lobe to Europe going through my house
> at a distance of much less that 1/4 wavelength on 160. The house itself
> is pretty RF-quiet, and the antenna seems to work (using it to select
> one of two broadcast stations on the same frequency) but I'm wondering
> if it would be worth the effort to move it to a location where it has a
> clear shot to Europe
>
> --
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> Check out the new Reverse Beacon Network
> web server at .
> For spots, please use your favorite
> "retail" DX cluster.
>
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Re: Topband: K9AY amplifier

[Mike Furrey]

 Hi Tom,

I used a K9AY loop in my small back yard in Houston. I rarely ever found the 
need for a preamp BUT I used an old Ameco PT-3 preamp inside the shack. That 
did just fine for me.

73, Mike WA5POK


 On Thursday, November 5, 2020, 05:09:53 AM EST, Wojciech Tomczyk via 
Topband  wrote:  
 
 Hello OMs,
I plan to build a K9AY antenna.My question is about location of its 
preamplifier.I consider locating it inside the control box at the base of the 
antenna.Does it have any advantage/disadvantage? I am concerned about signal 
strength loss in coax between antenna and radio if amplifier is located at the 
receiver side.I do appreciate any comments-
Tom, SP7WT
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Re: Topband: Summer Stew Perry

[Mike Furrey]

 I gave it a 40+ Qs shot from TN. The summer thunderstorm noise finally did me 
in. Even some of the "beacon" stations in the eastern US were hard to hear.

73, Mike WA5POK


 On Sunday, June 21, 2020, 06:48:51 PM EDT, List Mail 
 wrote:  
 
 I worked K7RAT (with some difficulty) and that was all.

The only other decent signal on the band was K3EST, but he was in the AA 
Contest.

Top Band contests are a hard row to hoe from VK, even now in mid winter.

73,

Luke VK3HJ

-Original Message- 
From: Roger Kennedy
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 8:06 AM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: Summer Stew Perry


Good to work a few of you in the Contest last night . . .

Shame there weren't more stations on !

Roger G3YRO




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Re: Topband: Hairpin match to inverted L?

[Mike Furrey]

 
I did and it was easy and worked well. I could not find much info (Internet 
found one picture and not much in handbooks for a hairpin on 160). I "WAGed" it 
and took #10 solid wire and wrapped 12 turns around a 3" form and shunted it 
across the feed point. I dialed in the match by spreading and compressing the 
coil. My inverted L is suspended between two tall trees with four resonated 
elevated radials (81' long) up 20'. My original feed point impedance was about 
35 ohms. I used my Comet antenna analyzer for this process. 

73, Mike WA5POK

 On Sunday, September 1, 2019, 2:47:07 PM EDT, N4ZR  
wrote:  
 
 The other day a ham friend suggested using a coil ("hairpin") to match 
the low impedance of a well-radialed inverted L to 50-ohm coax.  This 
struck me as a potentially-attractive alternative to a series vacuum 
capacitor, but I don't know enough to evaluate it. Thoughts?

-- 

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
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Re: Topband: Inverted L in contact with leaves

[Mike Furrey]

 My inverted L with elevated radials has touched limbs and leaves and I have 
still gotten out well. SWR does change (but not appreciably) with the rise and 
fall of the tree sap and with rain (very wet tree). All were made of 14 gauge 
insulated wire from the big box hardware stores. The only issue (really excited 
the neighbors) occurred when a squirrel bit through the insulation at a high 
voltage point and the bare wire touched leaves. I had arcs and small flames 
occurring every time I hit the key.

73, Mike WA5POK


 On Thursday, August 29, 2019, 12:19:40 PM EDT, AB2E Darrell 
 wrote:  
 
 Hi Pete,
No effect noticed here for leaves with L wire running over tree.
I just reinstalled my 160m Inverted - L on a taller tree (fed 10ft off ground, 
80ft vertical , about 52ft horizontal). It's been up all summer with leaves, it 
goes over the top of 95ft oak. My vertical wire is #12 THHN, insulated solid 
copper. I have 5 tuned radials of the same wire, but thinner gauge is also OK. 
I feed it with a 1:1 Balun Designs balun. I trimmed it slightly but it 
resonates about 1845 and gives me all the CW band. Tested with Acom 2000A at 
1500W outseems very stable as before mounted on a  shorter tree at about 
65ft.

Pete, even 1 tuned radial for your L, you should see it working and loading up 
OK if you want to test.

I used to easily find the tech supplement online from Butternut for tuned 
radials, but it looks like it's now gone.
Check this document out 
https://rudys.typepad.com/files/elevated-ground-systems-article-final-version.pdf
 . N6LF did some modelling and looks very similar to ON4UN's conclusions in his 
lowband book that 4 tuned radials achieve 60% of the efficiency of 100+ radials 
on the ground. Some may dispute this, but I've never had enough real estate to 
put down a full ground radial field of 100+, but I do have room to put up 4 
elevated radials. They can slope, go up and down but if you can, mount them 
about 10ft above ground.
The tuned radials are about 3.5% shorter than the 1/4wave element (see the 
formula). I cut them all the same as the element, and then gradually shorten 
them to adjust for resonance, depending on how the SWR looks.

In the past, the L has worked great for me. I now have about 115 countries 
confirmed on 160, all with an L.

73 and best of luck with the project,
Darrell AB2E



From: Topband  on behalf of N4ZR 

Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 11:23 AM
To: topband reflector 
Subject: Topband: Inverted L in contact with leaves

My inverted L is taking shape - about 60 vertical, the rest horizontal.
For a couple of months anyway, it is touching a number of leaves in the
vertical section.  I assume that's not a concern, but thought I'd ask
before I get a lot of radials down. First short radial is down and
MFJ-259 results look promising.  It's just a problem of waiting for lawn
mowing to stop hi.

--

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

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Re: Topband: FCP versus loaded or "T" radialsradials

[Mike Furrey]

Elevated Radials ... In Houston, TX on a 60'X90' lot I had one 
quarter-wavelength elevated radial bent in the shape of an L to fit on the lot, 
it was routed around the perimeter of the lot. 

At an apartment in FL, I managed to hide an elevated radial in the bushes with 
a 50' base loaded vertical wire hidden in a tree (a Stew Perry antenna). 

In a cabin at a campground in Swannee, TN I had four 81' elevated radials 
(straight out of ON4UN's Low-Band book) up 20' and that setup netted me a top 
10 finish, low power in a 160 CQWW CW test. 

Now at my YL's QTH in Oak Ridge, TN (on a 1/5 acre lot) (fortunately she is 
also a ham) I have a single 1/8 wavelength linear loaded radial that that is 
also trapped (matches the vertical up a tall oak tree) to allow for 80 meter 
operation without relays. This antenna, while not a barn-burner, I was 
pleasantly surprised at its performance ... WAC with a hundred watts and have 
even run Europe on that unmentionable mode at 50 watts. All antennas were fed 
through a choke balun at the feed point and only the antenna with the 4 - 81' 
radials required impedance matching (used a hair pin). 

 I have sketches of most everything and I am sneaking up on 200 countries on 
160. I hope this gives you a few ideas.


73, Mike WA5POK

On Sat, 5/4/19, N4ZR  wrote:

 Subject: Topband: FCP versus loaded or "T" radialsradials
 To: "topband reflector" 
 Date: Saturday, May 4, 2019, 11:14 AM
 
 At the risk of setting off a food-fight, I'm
 interested in opinions on 
 shortened radials (T or loaded) versus
 the K2AC/W0UCE folded 
 counterpoise design.  W8JI has an
 interesting unfinished page 
 
 attacking the FCP.  
 Tom's a combative fella, but he's also
 very smart.  I am putting up an 
 inverted L, trying to avoid having to
 lay down 6000 or even 750 feet of 
 on-the ground radials, and don't really
 have room for resonant elevated 
 radials on 160.
 
 -- 
 
 73, Pete N4ZR
 Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
 at , now
 spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
 For spots, please use your favorite
 "retail" DX cluster.
 
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Re: Topband: launching lines over trees

[Mike Furrey]

Nice and Expensive! I use a $10 wrist rocket, a $5 spin-casting rod~n~reel from 
a yard sale, 3/4 oz fishing weight, ask someone to hold my beer, and tell 
everyone to go hide  ... 


On Thu, 12/27/18, terry burge  wrote:

 Subject: Topband: launching lines over trees
 To: topband@contesting.com, "terry burge" 
 Date: Thursday, December 27, 2018, 4:20 AM
 
 Let me see if I can paste a link here. Using
 Windows 10 copy and paste never seems to work right for me.
 Anyway, this place has the most 'serious' line launchers
 I've ever come across. 
 
 http://www.sherrilltree.com/climbing-gear/bigshot-launchers
 
 
 Take a look. (my copy and paste
 worked!).
 
 
 Terry
 
 KI7M
 
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Re: Topband: elevated radials

[Mike Furrey]

I took a page out of ON4UN's book for four elevated radials. In the 4th edition 
of his "Low-Band DXing," page 9-25, figure 9-23, I used the left diagram. After 
I resonated the system, my best SWR was about 2.5 and I fixed that by adding a 
"hair pin" match. The length of my radials was 81' and were up about 15'. This 
worked quite well for me.

Unfortunately that antenna is in a box since I am currently (temporarily) in a 
house on a 1/5 acre lot with an 1/8 wavelength wire vertical to a tree limb and 
a single 1/8 wavelength elevated radial. Ugh. BUT I am on the air. Just can't 
hear in this very old neighborhood until I get some kind of RX antenna built.
73, Mike WA5POK




On Saturday, October 20, 2018 9:45 PM, N4ZR  wrote:
 

 I am contemplating 4 elevated radials for a 160-meter inverted L.  Am I 
correct to think that I need to resonate each pair of radials in their 
final location as if they were a very low dipole?

-- 

73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at , now
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Re: Topband: Inv L in Tree

[Mike Furrey]

Hi Ed,
Yes, many times. When in Houston, TX on a 60' x90' lot I had one that was in 
between two 70'+ pine trees (about 5' from each tree at the feed point). I had 
one elevated radial up 15' that was shaped like an L to fit on the property. 
150+ countries with 600 watts. The big issue was receive. On leg of my K9AY 
loop was 6' from the elevated radial. I had to beef up the termination 
resistors in the loop and detune the inverted L on receive. Currently in Oak 
Ridge, TN I have an 1/8 wavelength vertical in the middle of an 85' oak tree 
and an 1/8 wavelength elevated radial. This is stuffed on a 1/5 acre lot. 
actually I am making this antenna dual band ... 80/160 ... and I am very 
pleased with the results so far. With 100 watts I have worked Europe and into 
the pacific on 160. I built this antenna just a few month ago. still tinkering 
with it to get it farther away from the trunk (about 10' now). 

Both of the above antennas were isolated from ground and fed through a ferrite 
choke balun. There were just enough losses that the feed point impedance was 50 
ohms.

The inverted L that gave me the best results was suspended between two large 
oak trees and I had four 81' elevated radials up about 20'. The radials were 
tuned and the impedance was about 25 ohms. A hair pin match fixed that. I did 
have access to an acre of land to put that one up. This is straight out of the 
ON4UN book.

There are models and debates (all I have studied and read) as to how to manage 
wires in trees and I will suggest to try it. An antenna analyzer will be your 
best friend. Enjoy!

73, Mike WA5POK 

On Sunday, September 23, 2018 1:40 AM, Edward via Topband 
 wrote:
 

 Has anybody snaked a wire up a tall tree trunk to make an Inv L? 

Any interaction?  Success??  Has to be stealthy because the tree os my 
neighbor's :-)

Thanks,
Ed NI6S
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Re: Topband: Call for antenna ideas

[Mike Furrey]

Hi Simon,I would like to suggest hanging a 1 wavelength delta loop off of the 
50 meter tower. Easy to build, easy to match, about 1.5 db gain and you don't 
need to do all that work laying down radials, etc and trying to match an odd 
length tower. The loop will be almost omni directional and it will be bit more 
broad banded than a vertical, dipole, etc.

GL es 73, Mike WA5POK
 

On Friday, September 14, 2018 1:34 PM, Simon Ravnič via Topband 
 wrote:
 

 Hi!

 

With a head full of browsing and researching I decided to ask for help this 
Topband think tank. 

 

At S53M contest station we are well organized for 40m & up but are lacking 
lower band TX antennas. 

 

There are three towers in direction north - south:
The southern one is 50m high with 40m and 20m monobanders on top
Middle one is located 25m north of previous one and is 25m high with 15m 
monobander and 6/4m duobander.
The northern one is 28m north of middle one and is 20m high with Optibeam 
OB17-4.
 

There is a possibility to hang anything between them so I think we would prefer 
some wire antennas. Already present on the site is 160m INV-V and 80m vertical 
dipole from the 50m tower. What we are looking for is 160m and 80m TX antenna 
with two main directions 310 and 45 with low angle radiation.

 

RX antennas are OK as there are three 280m long terminated beverages, direction 
270 (Caribbean), 310 (NA) and 45 (AS). 

 

To understand better see a photo of the location at

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bk44cg2zfyzpw3w/S53M.JPG?dl=0

or

https://ibb.co/gRPGVU

 

Thanks you for your idea & 73

Simon, S53ZO

S53M team

 

 

 

 

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Re: Topband: Radial plate

[Mike Furrey]

A system I used that worked very well was four 81' elevated (up 20') radials 
after a single coil. The antenna was a tree supported inverted L. This is 
straight from the ON4UN handbook. Another ham neighbor used four 67' elevated 
radials after a single coil, also from the same section in the ON4UN hand book 
... 4th Edition page 9-25 ...  It was very easy resonating the system with that 
single coil but the best SWR was about 2.5. That problem was solved with a 
hairpin match. At the time I was living near Sewanee, TN on a sandstone plateau 
with the worst possible ground conductivity, about a "2" according to the map.

I don't think I can attach a photo of the feed point and send it to the group 
but can sure send to anyone interested in seeing what it looks like. 

73, Mike WA5POK


On Monday, July 2, 2018 12:05 PM, Grant Saviers  wrote:
 

 I agree that resonating 8 elevated radials would be a aggravating task.  
I have 8  10' elevated 125' +/- radials for my T loaded vertical.  I 
made no effort to resonate them.  OTOH, for one or two radials, 
resonating them is important.  N6LF covered this in his papers on 
elevated radials.  antennasbyn6lf.com also a two part series in QEX 2012

My installation has significant imbalance in radial currents, as much as 
3.4:1 highest to lowest as measured with an MFJ854 RF current meter that 
I calibrated.  The causes are proximity to a steel building and a tower 
for two of them.  The others are intermittently in forest and over grass.

With the 13ga aluminum wire I use for elevated radials the excess RF 
power loss from unbalance is less than 1% I^2*R using skin depth 
resistances.  I modeled (EZNEC Pro4) the antenna with 8 current sources 
of the actual values in each radial.  The azimuth pattern distortion is 
1db.  The gain is 0.05db lower .  The two highest current radials are 
adjacent.

This leads me to believe that for 8 or more elevated radials there is 
small benefit to pattern uniformity or efficiency with resonated radials 
or for finding some no loss means to equalize the radial currents.  N6LF 
concludes that for his recommended 10 elevated radials, efficiency and 
pattern sensitivity to length and current asymmetry is low.

I've had good results mechanically with 13ga aluminum electric fence 
wire.  There is no skin depth problem on 160m which may happen with 
cheap copperweld steel.  Aluminum is also available 9ga which is tough 
stuff.  As noted the very little stretch doesn't matter.

Grant KZ1W


On 7/1/2018 16:14 PM, Charles Moizeau wrote:
> With in-ground, which optimally should be be so shallow as to be on-ground, 
> radials there's no thought or effort needed to think about them as being 
> anything close to the intended radiation frequency.
>
>
> But with elevated radials my understanding, and it is more nonexistent than 
> limited because I've never tried them, is that all have to be physically 
> matched to one another yet tuned to the radiation frequency, and this 
> requirement is an extremely fiddly undertaking because there will be nearby 
> objects, e.g., trees, varying ground slopes, etc. that will differently 
> affect radials of identical physical length.
>
>
> Charles, W2SH
>
> 
> From: Topband  on behalf of N2TK, Tony 
> 
> Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2018 5:01 PM
> To: 'Carl'; topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: Radial plate
>
> Hi Carl,
> One advantages of going underground. No more wires hanging up in the air. It
> will look cleaner. But I do not have any idea if my signal will degrade
> going with buried radials over the 5 elevated radials at each feedpoint. The
> ice was brutal this past winter.
> Why do you say there will be a large signal loss going from elevated to
> ground radials? You got my attentions with that statement.
> N2TK, Tony
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Carl [mailto:k...@jeremy.qozzy.com]
> Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2018 3:51 PM
> To: N2TK, Tony ; topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: Radial plate
>
> Since the change to on ground radials can result in a large loss of signal
> in some areas why not just invest in stronger elevated radials?
>
> I use scrapped deep well wire from well shops which is available in #12 to 6
> in this area in 2 and 3 wire insulated styles and is often free. . For the
> 16 160M radials up 12-15' they run over tree branches and also over fairly
> open areas.
>
> Since I live on top of  the tallest hill in the area of Southern NH  Im
> exposed to everything Mother Nature can throw at me from all
> directions.ice included. Back when I used #18 & 16 it was regularly
> needing repair, amd now nothing in about 12 years. It acts/handles like a
> cross between soft drawn house wire and hard drawn.
>
> #16 to12 copper clad steel is available also with and without a strong
> jacket and stranded or solid..
>
> Carl
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "N2TK, Tony" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2018 9:08 AM
> Subject: Top

Re: Topband: Radials in the desert

[Mike Furrey]

Once a driveway was in the way of radials ... a cement blade on a circular saw 
fixed that. That may work FB on soft sandstone.
73, Mike WA5POK 

On Wednesday, June 20, 2018 9:23 AM, MICHAEL ST ANGELO 
 wrote:
 

 Chet,

Have you tried digging a shallow trench with an edge trimmer? They are also 
known as edgers.

Mike N2MS


> On June 20, 2018 at 8:06 AM Chester Latawiec  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Any suggestions on burying radials in the desert sands of Kingman AZ?  
> Radials placed on the surface just stay there and are constant tripping 
> hazards.
> The desert sand is like rock.  The top 1/4 inch is loose sand but below that 
> it's like rock.  You vertually need a pick axe to loosen the sublayer.  One 
> option is to pick axe a shallow trench for each radial in the desert sun, but 
> tripping over the radials would be a better alternative.
> Any suggestions?
> I'm really getting tired of tripping over the radials of Jess, AI9L's radial 
> field.
> 73
> Chet VE3CFK
> 
> 
> Sent from my Samsung device
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Re: Topband: (no subject)

[Mike Furrey]

It looks like my e-mail account has been spoofed or hacked. Ugh. That last 
e-mail to the topband list did not originate from me.
Sorry Guys I will try to figure it out or for the time being I may have to 
unsubscribe.
73, Mike WA5POK
 

On Sunday, May 20, 2018 6:32 AM, Mike Furrey  wrote:
 

 
http://alternative.aliveandwellinkansas.com

Mike Furrey
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Topband: (no subject)

[Mike Furrey]

http://alternative.aliveandwellinkansas.com

Mike Furrey
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Re: Topband: Best 160 antenna

[Mike Furrey]

Hi Gary,
For many years I used an inverted L between two tall pine trees and one 
elevated radial that was L shaped to fit on the 90' x 60' lot I had in Spring, 
TX. The radial was about 15' up and it was fed through a choke balun. Worked 
about 160 countries with 600 watts output. I also had an AY loop with one leg 
of the loop about 6' from the radial. I had to detune the antenna on receive 
and had BIG resistors in the loop to keep them from smoking during transmit.
GL es 73, Mike WA5POK
 

On Sunday, August 27, 2017 11:07 AM, gary mankoff  
wrote:
 

 Hi everyone
I finally have some land to do a 160 meter antenna 
Lots of tall trees
May I have some input as to what people are using on 160 
Gary 
N6biz

Sent from my iPad
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Re: Topband: Made it! 80 Years a Ham

[Mike Furrey]

Paul! 
Great Story! Congratulations! I am curious if our paths crossed in Hobbs. I 
grew up there and was first licensed as WN5KKA in '64 as a 13 year kid. My test 
was administered by John Sikes (can't remember his call) and John Crues WA5HPX.
73, Mike WA5POK 

On Thursday, January 19, 2017 10:10 AM, Bob Cutter via Topband 
 wrote:
 

  blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important; border-left:1px 
#715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex !important; background-color:white 
!important; } Great story, thank you!
73, Bob KI0G 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, January 19, 2017, 9:48 AM, PAUL M ELLIOTT  
wrote:

Made it! 19 January 2017, is the 80th anniversary of my first ham license,
Class C operating privileges with W5GGV as my call. Was 14 years old at the
time. A little over a year later I upgraded to Class A.  Many years later
the Extra Class (with no added privileges) came along. Upgraded. Some years
later the FCC announced that hams with an Extra Class license who had been
licensed 25 years could apply for a two -letter call, no place on the
application to request of a specific call.  Was assigned W5DM.

First rig made from junked Atwater Kent radio parts. First antenna was a
wire going out a hole in the window screen to a tree.  First DX was VK2SS on
40 m CW, September 1937. (An aside. There were no phone privileges on 40 m
for USA hams). The VK2SS QSL card is hung on my wall. My card to him was
written on a postcard (Great Depression=no money to buy QSL cards).

Been fairly active over the years, except, of course, for WW II.  If
interested in WW II, you can do a web search on DD 792 for a small part of
my history.

The first 20 or 30 years I built my transmitters (all low powered) and
receivers. Operated CW only until SSB came along. Then I built a low powered
phasing rig. A BC-348H receiver was made dual conversion using 85 kcs  (kcs
then= kHz now) IF transformers from a BC 453 receiver.  Had a blast working
the world with a homebuilt "cubical quad" on 20 meters.  Since then mostly
CW.

I may have made one small contribution to ham radio.  In the April 1958
issue of QST, in Technical Correspondence there was a letter from me that, I
think, was the first mention in a ham publication that the formula for
determining the length of a "cubical quad" antenna was not correct.  Since
my measurements were made using a BC 348, a grid dip oscillator, and a 100
kcs crystal oscillator. I don't know whether I was just lucky to get as
close as I did or did a fairly good job with what I had.

In the early 1990s started out to get 160 m WAS from a 120 x 120 foot
electrically noisy city lot (SE NM) with a long ( ~3/8 wavelength)  but low
semi-inverted L antenna.  Ground radials of varying length in one 90 degree
segment. Made 160 m WAS.  Then started chasing DX.  Now have 189 countries
confirmed on 160 m, 324 on all bands.  

Age, not surprisingly, has taken its toll.  CW now down to 20-25 wpm-at one
time it was 35-40 wpm.  Finger dexterity way down-has taken me over 3 hours
to type this email. Physical realities remain physical realities--I am now a
disabled, crippled old man. But---

No complaints-many people are worse off than I am.  

Thanks to all who have had the knowledge and the kindness to help me over
the years.

73 Paul W5DM                        

 

 

 

 

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Re: Topband: inv. L

[Mike Furrey]

Hi Art,Yes, I have done that and am doing that. I use tall trees as supports 
and the 160 inverted L goes up one side of the tree then bent over horizontally 
to another tree over yonder. From the same feed point, the 80 meter section 
goes up the other side of the same tree and the top actually folds over an 
upper limb down to the tie point. I have had the antennas separate and had them 
from the same feed point as I do now and I have not seen much, if any 
difference in performance. With 600 watts output I have about 165 countries on 
160 and about 220 on 80 from a small suburban lot in Houston. I just installed 
the same antenna in TN and it has worked quite well there. I feed it through a 
ferrite bead balun and I have one elevated (up about 20') per band.Hope this 
helps. 73, Mike WA5POK
 

On Monday, October 17, 2016 10:17 AM, Art Snapper  wrote:
 

 I was considering adding a second vertical element to my 160 inverted L.
This one would be roughly a quarter wave tall for use on 80.

I tried modelling in Eznec, but wasn't comfortable with the results. I may
have screwed it up.

Has anyone tried it for real? Is it a big compromise on either band? Would
a switch at the feedpoint have any benefit?

My inverted L has about 50 radials.

73
Art NK8X
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Re: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op

[Mike Furrey]

Some one is having too much fun! I may have to try that!
Great Job!
73, Mike WA5POK
 

On Thursday, December 24, 2015 3:33 PM, Peter Voelpel  
wrote:
 

 Qrp on 160 is fun:

CQ WW CW this year:

SOSB/160 QRP
Call    QSOs    Zones    Countries    Op Time    Score    Club
GM4AFF    409    11    52    16    27,657    
K9JWV    16    7    5        496    
 

SOSB(A)/160 QRP
Call    QSOs    Zones    Countries    Op Time    Score    Club
OL1A(OK1CW)    476    10    60    18    37,380    
DJ7WW    308    11    55    28    25,476    RR DX
S57M    404    6    47    29    21,359    SCC

73
Peter

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mark
K3MSB
Sent: Donnerstag, 24. Dezember 2015 22:06
To: K4OWR
Cc: topBand List
Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op

Well,  I think doing QRP is nuts on 160M,  but I tired it during the RAC
Winter Contest and made 26 QSOs in about 1.5 hours, and I have to admit it
was kinda fun, and I was just pokin' along.

So, me thinks I'll try QRP during the Stew Perry and see how it goes.
Now if I could just locate the source of my nasty 160M noise.

73 Mark K3MSB

On Thu, Dec 24, 2015 at 8:14 AM, K4OWR  wrote:

>  I will indeed be in there trying out all my new CW interface goodies.
> I have not really operated CW in a contest in many years.
> BTW FYI in the CQ 160 contest last year, In 9 hours I made 972 contacts in
> all 48 states plus 12 countries :-) :-) For first in TN and 17th. in
> country. All on phone.
> I did run full power though. One of these days I may try qrp just to
> punish myself.
> BILL K4OWR
>
>
> On 12/23/2015 9:34 PM, Jim F. via Topband wrote:
>
>> Amen brother Jim !
>> Hope K4OWR catches the drift and gives it a try :-) Jim /  W1FMR
>>
>>
>>        From: Jim Brown 
>>  To: topband@contesting.com
>>  Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 1:55 PM
>>  Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL 160CW Contest QRP Portable Op
>>    On Wed,12/23/2015 10:38 AM, K4OWR wrote:
>>
>>> "/162 contacts in the log, with 51 sections, including 8 countries/"
>>> is terrible in any contest.
>>>
>> Huh? For QRP with a completely portable operation, I'd call that pretty
>> good.
>>
>> The late jazz saxophonist Gene Quill was sometimes criticized for being
>> a poor imitation of the great Charlie Parker. At one point, he handed
>> his horn to one of those critics, saying "Here -- YOU play Charlie
>> Parker solos."
>>
>> 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: Topband: AM broadcast tower and 160m dxpedition

[Mike Furrey]

I put a delta loop fed at a corner with the apex at only 100' (slightly 
squashed). We compared it to an inverted V that was on another tower about 200' 
away that was also 100'. A/B indicated the delta was louder on transmit but 
much noisier on receive. The Inverted V was quieter. Signals were down a bit 
but noise was down more. Just could have been issue at our QTH.
 
73, Mike WA5POK 


On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 2:58 PM, DALE LONG  wrote:
  


Hi Milt:

This is not a big dxpedtion like VP6DX!  We do not have a dxpedition webpage. 
We will use LOTW but we will not have real-time logging.

For many years I have been involved in mission work to build radio stations in 
Haiti with an organization called Radio Lumiere.   This is a Haitian 
nationally-run organization (a good thing not often enough found in developing 
countries where too often funding decisions are made by large NGOs).  

We have engineers and technical folks from USA and Germany who provide 
technical assistance and radio equipment. About once a year we go to Haiti and 
build a new FM station with 100ft tower.  This year our project is to build an 
AM station.  The two amateur groups are tasked with erecting the 240 foot AM 
tower.  Then we get to play with it. This is a great opportunity, and is not 
often offered to amateurs. The tower would be erected by the group who is going 
in November for CQWW.  The 160m dxpedition should arrive to find a big tower, 
but lacking radials with some kind of 160m antenna.  Improving it for 160m 
would be our project.   Our 160m efforts will be not of much practical use for 
the radio network, but necessary for topband.  

It is interesting to note (for some of the AM broadcast engineers in this 
group)  that the people in Haiti (who dont have television and online news) 
still find AM to be an important communication vehicle.

We do have a big opportunity.  Many broadcast engineers do not have a high 
opinion of amateur radio operators and their abilities.  And they do not often 
offer to allow an amateur group the use of their broadcast tower.  But in this 
case the amateur community is providing the tower and the expertise to put it 
up.  In return, we are allowed to use it.  We plan to raise the tower in late 
November and have a small team to operate in the CQWW.  I and other amateurs 
plan to stay and operate the ARRL 160m contest.  We have a decent place to stay 
near the airport, and not far to the site.  We will have a generator to ensure 
that we have power.

The location is a salt marsh right on the ocean.  We own the 9-acre plot.  
Although I have used beverages in other dxpeditions, I think that beverages 
would be of little value in the marshy area.  (when I last visited the site the 
tower base and tuning house were on dry land and historically stay dry.)  But 
part of the radial field would be in the marsh.  We would have some local 
workers to provide assistance with radial installation.

What we will have available is simply a tall broadcast tower.  It will be 
top-loaded to bring it close to the design frequency of 660 Khz. We are still 
seeking a bottom insulator for the broadcast tower.

As far as 160m operation is concerned, we could tune the tower with broadcast 
tuning network, but I agree with Dado and others that it may not be as good as 
a sloping dipole. (If we have opportunity we will try both.)

If you would like to join us you would be most welcome.  We need some 160 guys, 
especially to build some kind of listening antenna for a site with high ground 
conductivity.

73

Dale - N3BNA

P.S. in addition to topband activities, I would note that all the ham radio 
stations in Haiti are operating with low or compromised antennas.  On the 
higher bands we should be able to contact areas of the world that do not often 
have opportunity to contact Haiti.  And as it happens many of our first group 
are well-known VHF contesters. So you may find us on 6m when our work is 
finished.




>
> From: Milt -- N5IA 
>To: DALE LONG  
>Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2014 11:28 AM
>Subject: Re: Topband: AM broadcast tower and 160m dxpedition
> 
>
>Dale,
>
>Do you have a web page of the DXpedition that spells out the basics?
>
>Interested.   In particular, what are your plans for 160 Meters, my 
>specialty?
>
>de Milt, N5IA  --  XZ1N, XZ0A, VP6DX
>
>
>
>-Original Message- 
>From: DALE LONG
>Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2014 6:25 AM
>To: Dragoslav Balaban ; 'Carl' ; g...@ka1j.com ; Topband@contesting.com
>Subject: Re: Topband: AM broadcast tower and 160m dxpedition
>
>Hi Dado:
>
>I agree with you.  Thanks to advice from AA1K, I built a sloping dipole at 
>200 feet for 80m in HH7-land.  I was really loud into EU and USA with only a 
>borrowed TS-50.
>
>We are still looking for operators for the HH2 160m dxpedition Dec1-Dec8.
>
>73
>
>Dale - N3BNA
>
>
>
>
>-
>No virus found in this message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 2014.0.4592 / Virus Database: 3955/

Re: Topband: AM broadcast tower and 160m dxpedition

[Mike Furrey]

I would hang a delta loop off of that tower very easy to tune and match with a 
1/4 wave length 75 ohm coax. You don't have to worry about complex matching 
systems or ground. BUT it is noisy on receive.
73, Mike WA5POK 


On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 9:25 AM, DALE LONG  wrote:
  


Hi Dado:

I agree with you.  Thanks to advice from AA1K, I built a sloping dipole at 200 
feet for 80m in HH7-land.  I was really loud into EU and USA with only a 
borrowed TS-50.

We are still looking for operators for the HH2 160m dxpedition Dec1-Dec8.

73

Dale - N3BNA

P.S.  I am forever sad about the time that I tried a sloping dipole on 160m 
from HH7.  It was the last day of my trip.  We finished the antenna after dusk 
and put it up.  It was my chance to be loud on 160 and make many people happy 
(I even had an argument that i should not do this because it was in a remote 
area and we had to fly at 6:30 AM).  So it was Friday night and I tuned around 
1812 and there I heard SSB signals..then all the band was full of SSB signals. 
W1 stations working W2 stations and W3 stations working W4 stations.  I could 
not break the pileups.  I could not get any answers to my CQ calls.  My one 
night to be on 160 with good antenna was lost because of the SSB contest!


>
> From: Dragoslav Balaban 
>To: 'Carl' ; g...@ka1j.com; Topband@contesting.com 
>Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2014 7:02 AM
>Subject: Re: Topband: AM broadcast tower and 160m dxpedition
> 
>
>hi all,
>
>As I can can see in EZNEC, simple model, Tower 2 Ft over average ground, 242
>Ft high, 
>best and simplest solution is to put sloping Dipole, K8UR style, Arch shape,
>from top of the Tower, 
>
>Gain in dipole direction can be as much as 3.84 dBi at 17 degrees Vertical
>angle, 
>
>one Dipole toward EU 60-90 degrees,  and  maybe other to west 270-300
>degrees,
>
>that would cover all 360 degrees , with F-S 90 degrees  less then 3 dB
>difference, but 90 degrees from HH north is NA, south SA, and thats
>close-almost local,  so should be no problem...
>
>73 gl,    looking forward HH , would be new one 160m hi
>
>dado E74AW
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl
>Sent: Wednesday, 26 February, 2014 01:44
>To: g...@ka1j.com; Topband@contesting.com
>Subject: Re: Topband: AM broadcast tower and 160m dxpedition
>
>Make them shorter and they will often do well over tidal marshes but not
>over open water.
>
>For a 240' tower Id suggest gamma feeding it up at the 1/4 wave point and
>use 4 elevated radials. It the AM BCB radials are installed they will make
>an excellent ground screen but do not connect them to the 160M feedline.
>
>Carl
>KM1H
>
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "Charlie Cunningham" 
>To: ; 
>Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2014 5:24 PM
>Subject: Re: Topband: AM broadcast tower and 160m dxpedition
>
>
>> That's not so surprising Gary !!  te Way the Beverages and similar 
>> slow-wave
>> antennas work is that they depend on the lossy GND  underneath for their
>> operation, so a salt marsh would not be a very beneficial GND structure
>> under a Beverage!
>>
>> 73,
>> Charlie, K4OTV
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary
>> Smith
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 5:09 PM
>> To: Topband@contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: Topband: AM broadcast tower and 160m dxpedition
>>
>> My Inv-L is on a salt marsh on Long Island Sound in Connecticut & I
>> ran two bidirectional 860' beverages over the salt marsh. I had
>> terrible results with the beverages, very noisy and hardly any
>> improvement over the Inv-L, much of the time the Inv-L was more
>> effective on Rx. With that, my experience of beverages & salt marshes
>> says to avoid this route.
>>
>> I ended up with a HI-Z Triangular array for Rx and it works very well
>> at the same location.
>>
>> Gary
>> KA1J
>>
>>> No, I don't believe 240' is too high - especially if the tower has a base
>>> insulator!  It would be so close to 1/2 wave on 160, that it could be fed
>>> very well as a 1/2 wave radiator on 160, either via a parallel tuned tank
>> or
>>> a 1/4 wave of perhaps 450 oh ladder line. A 1/2 wave radiator wis an
>>> excellent transmit antenna, and, because of the high feed-point impedance
>>> can be driven against a very modest ground arrangement
>>>
>>> Like you, though, I believe they would do well to put up some terminated
>>> loops, or perhaps a Beverage (or 3?) for receive antennas! A 240' 
>>> vertical
>>> would, I think,  be a VERY noisy receive antenna. If they put up a KAZ
>>> terminated loop that only requires one overhead support, they could steer
>> it
>>> around with ropes and weights on the ground. The KAZ is like ON4UN's
>> FO0AAA
>>> 160 receive loop.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Charlie, K4OTV
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of 
>>> Richard
>>> Karlquist
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 201