Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

2017-05-21 Thread Mike va3mw
Glenn nailed it. 

If you don't like it, don't use it.   No one is forcing anyone to comply. 

It is really that simple. 

Mike va3mw

> On May 21, 2017, at 6:09 AM, Glenn Wyant <va...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> 
> If an amateur has interest in  psk, jt65 etc or EME, cw or any band
> or mode; it is not for us to judge his particular interests.
> 
> VA3DX
> 
> 
> - Original Message - From: <k8...@alphacomm.net>
> To: <Topband@contesting.com>
> Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2017 11:47 PM
> Subject: Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65
> 
> 
>> Promised myself I'd stay out of this, but it's getting 
>> ridiculousComments like "I worked 20 new ones on 160, and I never heard 
>> any of them!". Wow! That's amazing...I personally can't find any 
>> satisfaction in claiming a contact I never heard. I never have...Yes, the 
>> digi modes allow easier qso's that would never have been made, but let's 
>> face it, you never made those contacts, your computer & it's software did. 
>> Any resulting "Awards" should be made out to your computer. Meteor scatter 
>> used to be very popular, actually getting to hear the excited voices of 
>> those you worked was thrilling. One m/s qso of mine was with a yl from the 
>> Carolinas with a most delightful Southern accent...hard to duplicate with 
>> digi modes. I don't know anyone who works or talks about rocks anymoreno 
>> challenge. Same with eme, which I pulled the plug on when it was no longer a 
>> challenge. How many new eme operators have heard their own voices coming 
>> back from the moon?  I migrated to TopBand as 
 one of the last real challenges left
>> I find the litany of excuses about why one has to go to digital means on 160 
>> to be feeble at best." My rig can't cut it, I don't have the antennas, I 
>> can't copy code (one of the real elephants in the room!), my location isn't 
>> on the coast where it's easy, etc, etc". There are MANY dxers operating 
>> successfully on small lots, and there are a myriad of clever, small 
>> receiving antennas out there. How about the gentleman on the left coast who 
>> worked DXCC on 160 from his mobile!! (without digital modes).
>> My TopBand rig is quite modest, no towers or rotors. The TX antennas are 
>> wires hanging from trees with no more than 50' vertical rise. The 16 radials 
>> under each are only 48' long. Desperately needing a new rig, I bought the 
>> very cheapest HF transceiver on the market (no DSP, keyer, antenna tuner, 
>> etc). My location in Upper Michigan is not near either coast for "easy" dx, 
>> but is unfortunately close to the auroral oval. My amp was a non-working 
>> "gift" that doesn't run full power. However, I have 233 countries & 37 zones 
>> confirmed on 160. I have personally HEARD every qso made & have decoded them 
>> as necessary, in my HEAD. I don't spot myself or arrange skedsI don't 
>> have a computer in the shack.
>> If ham radio was to go all digital, I would walk away from itNot because 
>> I'm a curmudgeon, but simply because the challenge and resulting thrills 
>> would be gone.
>> Lest you think I am a ignorant technophobe, I am a degreed electrical 
>> engineer and have been a ham for over 60 years. I have a fine computer & am 
>> on it actively every daybut I never pretend that it's ham radio.
>> I realize from the comment below that it's rather boring to work digi modes, 
>> but I suspect that help is on the wayI am truly surprised that no one 
>> has produced an "app" that will take the remaining work out of it. You would 
>> simply download the app, check the appropriate boxes (DXCC, WAS, WAZ), 
>> select the desired bands, and turn it loose 24 hours a day. It would make 
>> all the contacts for you (with similar robo-stations) and send you a text or 
>> email when it's through. Heck, it could even apply for your desired awards, 
>> and then wake up your printer to print your award certificate out! It would 
>> then send another message to pick up your awardHow truly exciting that 
>> would be.
>> Brian K8BHZ
>> 2017 12:39 AM, DXer wrote:
>>> >>>To me, just not the challenge of dxing mostly cw and ssb.
>>> 
>>> Fair enough. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
>>> 
>>> Another angle. I find JT65 to be a very relaxing mode. Which other mode 
>>> allows one to read and write emails, go get a coffee, answer 'nature's 
>>> call', etc. while making contacts? Timing is important, but doable. :^)
>>> 
>>> 73 de Vince, VA3VF
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>>> 
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Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

2017-05-14 Thread Mike va3mw
Yes, and while that works for you, not everyone sees it that way. 

I've worked 20 new countries on 160m this winter alone on bands that are closed 
are so polluted with RF noise, that it would not be possible with the human 
ear. 

It also allows those that are space limited to get on and be rewarded with 
making a contact with a limited station. 

Regardless, we have choices and we can all do it any which way we choose. If 
you don't like it, there is no requirement to participate. That is the beauty 
of the hobby!

Many 73, Mike va3mw

> On May 14, 2017, at 8:25 AM, Mark K3MSB <mark.k3...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Well said Victor.
> 
> I'm going to offend with this email no matter how nice I try to make it,
> but I am trying to not be inflammatory. Here goes
> 
> A human ear can not compete with a computer that extracts signals below the
> noise level.
> 
> Being a software engineer my friends are somewhat amazed I have no interest
> in RTTY or the JT modes. A few years ago they got me to do some RTTY
> contests. Talk about boring. You set the computer up, spin the VFO to align
> vertical cursor and push the correct buttons. Ditto with PSK31 only using a
> waterfall display. Download the software, spin the VFO, and push the
> buttons. As I told my friend “Even a caveman can do this”.
> 
> The JT modes certainly have their place as an advancement in communications
> technology and capability. But from a competition perspective, machine and
> human detected modes need to be strictly segregated.
> 
> My hat's off to those that get DXCC on 160 via CW and SSB. Sorry, but the
> hat stays on for using digital to get “the last few”. Not crying over spilt
> milk here; I have my TB DXCC and none of it is the JT modes.
> 
> The ARRL needs to address this, but I doubt they're going to. We've gotten
> to the point where single band awards need to be split between human and
> machine detected modes.
> 
> As posters in other threads have noted, the JT modes on TB will enable
> those with limited real estate to work 160M DX easily. This is both a
> blessing and a curse (as the saying goes). Yes, they may be able to use the
> JT modes to “easily” work DX on 160, but compare them to the guys in the
> same situation that work TB DX on CW / SSB and take years to do it.
> 
> 73 Mark K3MSB
> 
> On Sun, May 14, 2017 at 4:39 AM, Victor Goncharsky via Topband <
> topband@contesting.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Wrong.
>> Both in SSB and AM cases the operator's skills and abilities are involved.
>> Even more of those are needed on CW.
>> On those JT modes an operator is just a computer accessory.
>> 
>> 
>>> Воскресенье, 14 мая 2017, 5:41 +03:00 от Mike va3mw <
>> va...@portcredit.net >:
>>> 
>>> JT9 vs JT65 over CW
>>> 
>>> The same conversation happened when SSB started to gain strength over AM.
>>> 
>>> 73
>>> 
>>> Mike va3mw
>>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 73, Victor Goncharsky US5WE/K1WE (UW5W in VHF contests, ex UB5WE), P.E.
>> UARL Technical and VHF Committies
>> DXCC Honor Roll #1 (Mixed, Phone), 9BDXCC, 8BWAS
>> DXCC card checker (160 meters).
>> _
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Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

2017-05-13 Thread Mike va3mw
JT9 vs JT65 over CW

The same conversation happened when SSB started to gain strength over AM. 

73

Mike va3mw

> On May 13, 2017, at 7:39 PM, Mike Waters <mikew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> That's interesting. Thank you for sharing that with us.
> 
> What software are you using, Brian? Joe Taylor's, or some other?
> 
> I'm guessing you're only using the wide SSB filter. In any case, I'll have
> to try that and see, using CW and SSB filters.
> 
> 73, Mike
> www.w0btu.com
> 
> On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 5:50 PM, Brian D G3VGZ <topb...@planet3.freeuk.co.uk
>> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> I find the better ability for JT65 to decode co-channel signals with its
>> two
>> pass decoding makes up for any 2dB improvement in decoding JT9. I also find
>> a single static crash can take out JT9 decodes, more so than JT65.
>> 
>>>> Why not JT9? It has a 2 dB improvement in S/N ratio on 160, while using
>>>> only 1/10 of the bandwidth.
>>>> 
>>>> I cannot understand why JT9 is used so little on 160 thru 20. JT65 is a
>>>> VHF mode.
>>>> 
>>>> physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/K1JT/wsjtx.html
>> 
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