Re: Topband: Poor Conditions

[Peter Sundberg via Topband]

Try that statement at latitude 65.4N Roger, I can tell you that 
sunspots have a HUGE affect on TB propagation. And not in a positive way.


This season is a total bust so far, no DX heard at all. And 80m is 
not far behind.


73
Peter SM2CEW


At 21:47 2023-10-23, Roger Kennedy wrote:


I've never felt that the Sunspot Cycle has much affect on Topband.

Roger G3YRO


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Re: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc

[Peter Sundberg]

Skills involved?? Achievements?? You've got to be kidding Mike...

Achievements in the WW Digi Contest were so 
dramatically poor that the contest committee had 
to waive the NIL penalty because otherwise a 
large number of final scores would have been negative!


"The amount of NILs is abnormally high" - the 
committees own words in their article.


Does it sound attractive to bring such contest behavior Top Band?

Of course not.

73
Peter SM2CEW


At 17:12 2020-01-11, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote:
snip..


  There is skill involved.  There is a bunch of excitement and achievement.



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Re: Topband: Wednesday 160m DX CW Activity Night

[Peter Sundberg]

Recently the geomagnetic field has been very unstable, hence a higher 
K-index and a lot of aurora, resulting in totally wiped out DX 
conditions on 160m up here.


None of the regular NA stations could be heard this week.

Then again, conditions were phenomenal during the Stew so let's hope 
for a re-occurrence of that for the upcoming CQ 160 :-)


73
Peter SM2CEW




At 21:56 2020-01-09, Roger Kennedy wrote:


Well sadly conditions were rather poor last night . . .

Also I wasn't sure how many stations made it on the band, as I had
torrential rain all night, and with the 400kV power lines a mile away that
caused a high noise level, so could only copy stations above S7.

Oh well . . . perhaps it will be better next Wednesday !

73 Roger G3YRO


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Re: Topband: Wednesday 160m DX CW Activity Night

[Peter Sundberg]

The sky was all green and purple from south west to north last night 
due to aurora.


Magnetometer in KP07 swinging wildly.

No NA stations heard (or worked) on 160m at this QTH.

73
Peter SM2CEW


At 20:49 2019-12-19, Roger Kennedy wrote:


Well I spent a few hours on the band calling CQ last night, but only had a
couple of QSOs.

There were several other EU stations doing the same, and again not getting
replies.

Not sure if it was just poor conditions or lack of activity?  (although my
QSO and RBN reports were OK)

73 Roger G3YRO

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Re: Topband: Morning (W6 time) opening to European Russian today at ~1300Z during ARRL contest

[Peter Sundberg]

You were a very good signal here Rick all the time you were in 
darkness. Unfortunately you never heard me and I know there were 
other callers as well from northern Europe :-)


Super signals from all over NA this past weekend. The band never died 
as long as there was darkness over the entire, or some part of the, 
continent. Interesting to note, after sunrise here at 65.4N stations 
from the east coast, who still were in complete darkness, got 
noticeable weaker while the mid west and west coast stations got 
stronger. This follows the trend I've seen befor.


The band was packed with NA signals, all the way up and above 1850 kHz.

Two types of QSB were predominant. The usual very slow QSB with nulls 
and peaks that last for more than a minute, and the very rapid QSB 
which takes signals in and out of the noise in 10 seconds or so. This 
was especially noticeable on KH6/KU1CW - in the morning hours my time 
very short but strong peaks, come noon and afternoon more or less 
solid copy all the way until sunrise in KH6.


It is always interesting to hear west coast NA working Asia while I 
am hearing both sides equally strong. The problem for me is that you 
guys in NA are predominantly (of course) listening with antennas 
pointing to Asia, so it is not easy to get a QSO with you at that 
time of day. Despite very good signals at this end.. but a bunch of 
us up north were indeed trying hard to get your attention.. :-)


Too many calls to mention who stood outover time. But looking at the 
most difficult path straight over the pole K7CW, N7ZG, N7DD, N2IC, 
W6AYC, N6RK, KH6/KU1CW, KL7FB plus the amazing signals all day from 
the potent VE6 crowd - VE6WZ, VE6WQ, VE6BBP. And K0RF, like a beacon 
at all times.


As I've said these are just a few calls picked out from all the 
stations heard over the weekend. I worked 55 of you, so not bad 
considering I was only on from early morning and I did not burn the 
any end of the candle in the middle of the night.


This weekend is pretty much on par with the way the band was in 2011. 
That's the year that I made it to 49 states worked, only missing MS. 
This Sunday morning I heard N4OGW in MS working mainly NA stations 
before he suddenly disappeared, ouch..! :-)


Let's hope these lovely band conditions continue well past The Stew 
and the CQ 160M CW !


73
Peter SM2CEW



At 02:35 2019-12-09, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:

11 or so years ago, I worked UA3AGW at 1500Z during the ARRL contest
using only 100 watts then.  That was of course at a sunspot minimum.

We are now at the next SS minimum and this morning in the 1300Z hour,
I again worked UA3AGW who called me during the contest.
I also worked RK4FF, UD4F, RM4F, RA4LW, and RW3PZ plus LY7M and UW2M.
I would like to thank all the callers for sticking with me till
I got your call, although some were armchair copy.
I was using 1,500 watts today.

I hope to see this opening again in the upcoming Stew Perry
where it will worth a lot more than 5 points.

Rick N6RK
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Re: Topband: Summer Update & a Surprise

[Peter Sundberg]

If we CW operators would all stay on a very tight frequency passband 
and call CQ every 15 seconds I bet there would be a lot of 
interesting things happening to us also. Especially if we do it 24/7 
or at least every hour that we are not asleep.


However, PC-automation has it's advantages, some are at work while 
working DX and others are gardening. Some even sit by the radio/PC 
and watch things happen :-)


Bottom line is, we need to activate our transmitters more and not 
just listen for others. A perfect example is Bill KH7XS who opens up 
almost any seemingly "dead" band to Europe, at any time, just by 
calling CQ for a while.


CW is not only great fun as you say Dave, CW is King!

73
Peter SM2CEW


At 16:39 2019-07-31, daraym...@iowatelecom.net wrote:
Interesting observations Jeff.  I will remain on 160 CW as I have in 
years past.  I enjoy the visceral satisfaction that comes with 
pulling out the weak signals and having direct, unencumbered 
interaction with the station to which I'm communicating. . .or 
trying. . .hi.  CW is still great fun.


73. . . Dave, W0FLS

-Original Message- From: k1zm--- via Topband
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 7:20 AM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: Summer Update & a Surprise

Hi Gang


It is mid summer here and E season on 6M has been fun to play with 
while 160m is pretty S L O W as it usually is.
On these pages there has been alot of chatter regarding FT8 - (which 
basically took over 6M DX'ing starting in July 2917 - all DX is now 
on 50.313 FT8 - which is why I had to adopt this mode in order to 
continue DX'ing on 6m).  It was either do that or give up operating 
on 6M during E season.
I do hope that CW continues to thrive on Topband - but this past 
season there was TONS of DX on FT8 and in my opinion LESS DX on CW 
than in prior years.   It is quite possible to work in JA on 160m 
from here on FT8 with 100w out - which would have been quite rare 
indeed on CW as I recall (I do not think I ever worked JA with 100w 
from here - but who knows?)
Today as I write this - I am listening to 28.074Mhz on a totally 
DEAD 10m band.  If I tune the entire CW portion and the whole SSB 
portion, there is NOTHING - repeat NOTHING there - no signals 
whatsoever to be found.
Yet on 28.074Mhz - I just worked a whole page of Europeans on FT8 - 
to my almost total INCREDULITY!!
I am not sure how I feel about all of this - but one thing is SURE - 
the DX world has changed - and there is no looking back.
I love CW on Topband and used to love CW on 6m - but that no longer 
xists  -so I do hope the 6m migration to FT8 does not repeat itself on Topband!

To all a good summer and CU on CW again starting in September.
73 JEFF   VY2ZM


.

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Re: Topband: AM interference on 1840

[Peter Sundberg]

As most FT8 folks (like slaves) follow the K1JT 
suggested frequencies per band their radio will 
automatically QSY to the preprogrammed frequency. 
Some even think that they can't QSY and are 
demanding the software developer to add other frequencies to the software...


OMG.

73
Peter SM2CEW



At 13:50 2019-05-21, cqtestk4xs--- via Topband wrote:
I don't have a dog in the fight but why not move 
to 1843 or 1844.  Is 1840 sacrosanct? Bill KH7XS



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Re: Topband: Lack of NA Activity on CW

[Peter Sundberg]

Let's ponder:

FT8 - everyone is on ONE center frequency 
(passband) and their computer is transmitting 
every 15 seconds for hours on end, regardless if 
they are in contact with another computer or not
FT8 - all the computers that are "hearing" other 
computers are making use of the built in 50 Hz filter in FT8

FT8 - computers "heard" are lined up and presented nicely sorted on the screeen
FT8 - some computers that are not fully copied 
are still presented as "heard" by use of the "a priori" functionality

FT8 - listening in by ear on 1840 it sure sounds like high activity

CW - people call CQ on an unspecified frequency, sometimes with long interrupts
CW - listeners can't easily surf the band and dig 
in the noise in 50 Hz bandwidth
CW - without knowledge of who is where we need 
good signals to attract our attention and so we can start focusing
CW - summer conditions vary, but one thing is for 
sure, the noise is certainly higher and many have 
taken their microscopes (receiving antennas) down for the season
CW - many of us also have to live with a less 
effective TX antenna during the summer as we have 
to roll in our extensive radial field
CW - the KST chat list a lot of interesting and 
capable stations but most of them don't transmit every 15 seconds

CW - not all who are active announce themselves on KST


Bottom line:

CW - it sure would be easier for us to only 
monitor a specific world wide calling frequency, but this is not realistic
CW - we have to accept that it is more difficult 
to do manual CW than single channel FT8 for reasons described above

CW - if we transmit more we will be heard :-)
CW - we are not lazy operators, we still love CW 
and continue to make noise whenever we can, despite the problems listed above

CW - we take on a challenge, we don't give up
CW- we look at the surrounding actors in a 
realistic way and realize what they are doing, 
duly noting that our table has better food
CW - we fully admire our colleagues in the 
southern hemisphere for being there all the time 
during our prime season up north!


CW is King!

73
Peter SM2CEW





At 08:25 2019-04-23, lennart.michaels...@telia.com wrote:

Roger et al,
I was on early this morning and even checked in on  ON4KST.
Called a few CQ DX on 1826.5 without response so back to bed. Yet I did see
quite a few US callsigns on the chat. Perhaps they never check out?

73 all
Len SM7BIC

-Ursprungligt meddelande-
Från: Topband  För Roger Kennedy
Skickat: den 23 april 2019 10:17
Till: topband@contesting.com
Ämne: Topband: Lack of NA Activity on CW


I get that many stations only use FT8 these days (out of laziness?) . . .

But there are plenty of Top Band DXers (like me) who would never ever use
FT8 . . . but many of these people hardly ever come on the band !

It takes a pretty big setup to have a decent 160m DX station . . . what's
the point in having invested all that time and money if the only time you
ever come on the band is to work some DX-pedition?!

Personally, what gives me a buzz is working ANY station on 160m more than a
couple of thousand miles away. (it's the only band where that's actually an
achievement).

I don't care how many times I've worked that station before . . . and I also
don't waste hours trying to get through a pile-up to work a DX-pedition
station, as I'm really not bothered (I've usually already worked the island
they're on anyway)

It's becoming a self-fulfilling prophesy . . . If nobody makes the effort to
come on the band on CW, there will be nobody on the band !!

Roger G3YRO


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Re: Topband: Satisfactory fiberglass pole for K9AY loop

[Peter Sundberg]

I've always used an aluminium pole (actually part 
of an old 20m yagi reflector element) for my K9AY loops, works very well.


A short wooden pole driven into the ground holds 
the aluminum pole and the loops act as an excellent guying system.


Strong and totally maintenance free.

73
Peter SM2CEW


At 16:35 2019-02-20, Wes wrote:
I suppose it depends on where you are, but in 
Arizona, those things don't last in the 
sun.  You are soon left with a column of glass 
fibers that best be handled with gloves as you 
put them in the trash can.  Insidious stuff. 
Wes  N7WS On 2/20/2019 7:34 AM, N1SV wrote: > 
Look around for the fiberglass stackable army 
surplus mast sections either at a local flea 
market or online.  Think they come in 4-foot 
sections. That’s what I’ve been using to 
support my K9AY loop for years. > > Les, N1SV > 
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Re: Topband: ARRL DXCC - 160 Meters

[Peter Sundberg]

If  OK1YQ is OK1RD as you say Bob, then pse read:

http://www.g3txf.com/dxtrip/Fake-C21XF/Fake-C21.html

https://www.eham.net/ehamforum/smf/index.php?action=printpage;topic=110968.0

73
Peter SM2CEW


At 00:32 2018-11-17, Bob W4DR wrote:

OK1YQ is actually OK1RD

-Original Message- From: donov...@starpower.net
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 7:06 PM
To: topband
Subject: Re: Topband: ARRL DXCC - 160 Meters


JC,


I have well over a million QSOs in my computer log but not even a 
single QSO with OK1YQ



73
Frank
W3LPL


On 2018-11-16 13:32, n...@n4is.com wrote:

I never heard him on any band but he must be very active on EME

ARRL DXCC - 2 Meters -151 OK1YQ

http://www.arrl.org/system/dxcc/view/DXCC-2M-20181116-USLetter.pdf

73's JC
N4IS

-Original Message- From: Topband 
 On Behalf Of uy0zg

Sent: Friday, November 16, 2018 1:41 PM
To: Topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: ARRL DXCC - 160 Meters



ARRL DXCC - 160 Meters -339 OK1YQ .

Who is it ??

http://www.arrl.org/system/dxcc/view/DXCC-160M-20181116-A4.pdf#page=1=a
uto,-12,848

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Topband: Pre Stew - radio recordings

[Peter Sundberg]

I made some recordings during the PreStew last weekend.

Conditions on Sunday morning - after sunrise(!) - were the best I've 
seen up here at 65.4N since the previous solar minimum in 2009-2011.


All recordings were made well after sunrise on 21 October 2018.

http://www.sm2cew.com/wavefiles_tb.html

73
Peter SM2CEW


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Re: Topband: Straws in the Wind ....A 160m Dx'ing Sea Change is Upon us!

[Peter Sundberg]

For those who have not yet seen how the future of 160m band 
harvesting - not DX'ing -  will be done, check this video out


http://ae5x.blogspot.se/2018/01/video-fully-automated-ft8-qsos.html 



Apparently SV5DKL made 13.000 QSO's on the bands in a few months, 
totally without operator intervention. I bet many hams were happy to 
put SV5 as a new DXCC in their log, Isn't it wonderful that his 
computer was so helpful with that while the operator was busy with 
other things.


As for the legal aspects of unattended operation of a ham radio 
station - who will be able to tell if the operator is there or not as 
it is fully automatic anyway..


In the near future - if we embrace this way of operating -   for 
Wednesday activity nights on 160m we just let our computer do the 
work and check in the morning how many contacts that were made and 
how many that are already credited via LotW. Simple as that.


In contrast to this digital automation it was very interesting to 
read Jeff K1ZM's report from the Spratly expedition on how the 
experienced and highly skilled crew put in a BIG effort to make real 
radio contacts. Way to go!  And I am glad that they did not leave an 
FT8 robot station behind, neatly tucked away in a corner of the 
conference room.. :-)


I do not want to take part in this modern Internet driven computer 
game. If people would disconnect their FT8 computers from the report 
services on the net there would be a lot less amazing contacts in the 
noise as the "a priori" advantage is lost. Then it would be more 
apparent what the radio channel is actually providing for them.


I think that the statement from Ken K4ZW in his recent posting is 
very appropriate:


"For those who think guys like me are dinosaurs, I would kindly 
suggest you don't understand what motives us. 73 Ken K4ZW"


We can't change/stop this new lazy way of automatic band harvesting. 
Many will even make huge amounts of money on the new way of operating.


But we can still do it the old fashion way, as it pleases us to make 
radio contacts. Therefore I will continue to populate the 160m band 
with my CW signal until there are no more stations to work.



73
Peter SM2CEW


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Re: Topband: sdrWEB not going in my log

[Peter Sundberg]

So..

- Station A in North America is calling CQ on 1827.0 and is heard by 
Station B in Europe via a webSDR located 50 km away from Station A in 
North America.


- Station B in Europe is calling Station A - who is listening via a 
webSDR in Europe located 50 km away from Station B


- Both stations exchange 599+ reports and greetings for a fine QSO.

Wow, their signal made it 50 km via the airwaves at both ends and was 
then "carried" across the world via the Internet.


What a wonderful Top Band QSO, carried out "the modern way", 
embracing new technology.


OMG.

73
Peter SM2CEW



At 06:44 2018-01-16, terry burge wrote:
Well I guess I had to find out what all the fuss was about so I went 
on line and tried some of these European webSDR's. Just worked OK2RZ 
and YT1AA. Also heard I5ZSS. Using the SDR it's like shooting fish 
in the barrel. At least when you plug into the right SDR over there. 
They are not going in my log but I did find out it is easy to do. 
And I believe it would get so easy the fascination with working the 
world would be gone for me. It works but the most of what I got out 
of it was how strong the Europeans were 'over there' and how poor my 
reception was here in Oregon. Like nil!



So much for that. But before you think there are only a few of those 
webSDR's, take another think on that. There apparently are dozens, 
maybe hundreds. Don't think they will care what a few of us old Ham 
Radio geeks think.



Terry

KI7M

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Re: Topband: FT8 qrm

[Peter Sundberg]

This is Joe Taylor K1JTs description of how WSJT-X default 
frequencies (windows) are established:


"The authors of WSJT, MAP65, WSPR, and WSJT-X have never attempted to 
impose standards for operating frequencies of our various modes. 
Sometimes we have made initial suggestions, usually with IARU Region 
2 in mind.  But the frequencies in use today are effectively 
established by users, not by us.  When conventional usage seems well 
enough established by the community, we have added mode-specific 
default frequencies to a list in WSJT-X "


To me it seems pretty clear that if the software is pre-programmed 
with a set of default frequencies for different bands, the users are 
NOT spinning the VFO to find a clear space. Last summer this concept 
created quite a bit of commotion in Region 1 among users of a higher 
band as the WSJT-X default frequency was not in correspondence with 
the R1 bandplan.


So, to answer your question Mark - Mr Taylor and his colleague 
authors of a software bundle.


73
Peter SM2CEW





At 17:17 2017-11-29, Mark K3MSB wrote:

>>established band usage

Out of curiosity,  exactly who "established" 1840 + 2.5 KHz as the FT8
"window"?

Mark K3MSB

On Nov 29, 2017 12:04 PM, "Brian D G3VGZ" 
wrote:

I shall be operating this weekend full legal limit *below* 1837.5 CW, and
also FT*/JT65/JT9 at up to the legal limit above 1838. There's no reason
both can't co-exist. It should be a rule in contests that all stations
deliberately operatimg out of the established band usage to be disqualified.
I refuse to work those stations which flaunt the band plans.


"Ed Sawyer"  wrote:

> I'm sorry but I don't buy the argument that the way to be a "gentleman" is
> to accept everyone else's interests above your own.  A "gentleman" is
> respectful of others and treats others as he/she wants to be treated.
>
>
>
> No one owns a frequency channel at least in the US - read your license.
>
>
>
> If I come on a frequency, hear nothing, ask QRL using a legal and accepted
> mode for the frequency and hear nothing, I am using the frequency.  By the
> way - even the ARRL admits there is no longer a "DX Window" on 160M.
>
>
>
> If FT8 is such a fragile mode to QRM that it needs a 2khz undisturbed
> window, then it is a flawed mode that will not stand the test of time in
> my opinion.  I am already starting to hear DX side people saying it's a
> complete waste of time and abandoning it.  I hear 3Y is going to try it -
> that should be hilarious.
>
>
>
> I think that most of the FT8 crowd is horribly misinformed with dribble
> they read on the internet and think that some "net authority" has granted
> exclusive access to said frequency band and that they have had such right
> since June.
>
>
>
> Look for me on 1840 in the ARRL 160 this weekend after listening, asking
> QRL, and seeing if I am disturbing anyone in my 400hz receiving window.
>
>
>
> 73
>
>
>
> Ed  N1UR
>
> _ Topband Reflector Archives -
> http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>


--
Brian D
G3VGZ G3T
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Re: Topband: FT8 - the end of 160m old school DXing?

[Peter Sundberg]

Jay, please don't compare the new digi protocols 
with RTTY, a character based protocol.


What you see on the screen or paper in RTTY has 
actually been sent, and is received as it was 
sent. Or it is garbled because the link is not good enough.


With some of the new popular digi protocols most 
of what is written on the screen, some call it 
"received", has never been received as a complete 
message. It is reproduced from other sources than the radio path.


As a well known 6m op said after summing up his 
Zero to DXCC journey this last summer - "without 
entering already known information (calls) to the 
software I wouldn't have been even close to where I am now.."


BIG difference - no wonder the users of new digi 
protocols apply for a DXCC award after a week. Try that with RTTY.


73
Peter SM2CEW


At 13:38 2017-10-25, jayb1...@optonline.net wrote:
I guess I don’t understand what makes the new 
Digital modes any different from old RTTY...the 
“sounds” are similar enuf to learn to love 
and the words are still displayed on (in the old 
days) paper or a screen. There are many 
audibly-compromised hams out there ­ such as me 
â– who really welcome a mode that doesn’t 
require sharp hearing to work CW or especially 
SSB. In addition, I have recruited several new 
(young) hams by attracting them with the 
computer-based modes...all but eliminates 
“mike-fright” and “key-freezing”. I 
guess a lot of old-timers (I am 75) feel that 
the awards like DXCC and WAS, etc. earned with 
FT8 have less merit than they did with good-old 
CW or Phone or RTTY.  But few people objected 
when CW filters were invented or SSB replaced AM 
or smaller, lighter, more efficient radios 
replaced the old tube stuff...so is a CW DXCC 
earned in 1948 somehow worth more than one 
earned in 2000 using these major tech 
improvements ? There will always be a place for 
CW and voice modes in ham radio for those that 
want to practice those..and remember one of the 
major facets of ham radio is to “advance the 
state of the radio art” which surely describes 
the new digital modes. Room for everybody out 
there, guys73 Jay NY2NY _ 
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Re: Topband: New 160 with FT8

[Peter Sundberg]

Congrats Gary for scoring by using FT8.

This new protocol will be a blessing to all who want to make DXCC 
without effort - you just put it into "Gardening mode".


This is what a G-station told us on another reflector recently about FT8:

"But it is possible to create your own "QSO machine" which doesn't 
need any human intervention. See my email of 26th August at 2047 GMT 
("Fully Automated QSOs").
My version works with WSJT-X RC2 and either Windows 7 or XP (but 
unfortunately not Windows 10). I just put it together as an 
experiment, so I don't want it to be widely distributed, and I can't 
spend time supporting or developing it. But it works, and it's 
fascinating to watch it making QSOs on its own."


So, the fascination of working new countries by taking part yourself 
is soon to be replaced by the fascination of your computer making 
these QSOs on its own, adding them to your DXCC total. While you are 
off doing other important things.


As for me - on any band - CW is King.

73
Peter SM2CEW





At 04:55 2017-09-12, you wrote:

CW is my love, always will be, RTTY is #2.
That said, I've decided to give the new
modes a go, especially seeing as the
software to do so is open source and
provided for us to use.

Its been a long time since I worked a new
one on 160 but I needed E5-S and saw them
on 160 running the FT8 mode, calling CQ. I
gave them a call at 50W from CT and darned
if we didn't make it happen. First new 160
in over a year.

73,

Gary
KA1J

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Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65

[Peter Sundberg]

Mark,

What you are saying is, that by using the K1JT shorthand messages, i 
e single carriers representing a report, confirmation "RRR" and "73" 
we are seeing a wonderful advancement in communication technology. JT 
shorthand messages are nothing but a carrier at a certain frequency 
offset. They are used all the time to make these wonderful QSO's, 
taking people up the DXCC ladder at higher speed than ever before.


If only detecting a carrier would have provided me with confirmation 
of a QSO on Top Band I would certainly have more countries in my log 
than I do now..


There is nothing wonderful about lowering the amount of data 
transferred via the airwaves to virtually nothing to complete a QSO, 
it is going backwards rather than forward in advancement in my view.


73
Peter SM2CEW


At 20:29 2017-05-21, Mark K3MSB wrote:


There is nothing wrong with the JT modes;  they are a wonderful advancement
in communications technology in the spirit of the advancement of amateur
radio.




_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Topband: WAS 160

[Peter Sundberg]

This morning, for the first time in a couple of years, I could 
hear/work a number of NA stations again with good signals.


This leads me to believe that I can finally complete WAS 160m this 
season by working someone in MS. Been stuck at 49 states for 4 years now...


Any suggestions as to who is active from MS on 160m with a good 
station? I am located at Lat 65.4N so geomagnetic disturbances are a 
big issue. The bigger the station is at the other end, the better.


73
Peter SM2CEW






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Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Which is best for copying the weakest DX - DSP or theear-brain combo?

[Peter Sundberg]

Correction to my previous posting (see below). Not a few tenths of a Hz
wide, instead it should say a few Hz wide, say 20-50Hz..

73
Peter SM2CEW



At 19:04 2015-08-07 , Peter Sundberg wrote:

Granted, tuning in a very weak steady carrier in a narrow DSP filter (a few
tenths of Hz wide) can give you the impression that DSP is magic stuff. 
73
Peter SM2CEW




_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: Which is best for copying the weakest DX - DSP or theear-brain combo?

[Peter Sundberg]

It is interesting to note that Tom and others share exactly the same
experience as I have. There is a certain 'flavour' to DSP audio that is not
making it easier to copy weak signals in the noise. I find that using an
(old) analog system actually makes it much easier to copy signals hidden
deep down in the noise.  

I have long experience from listening to extremely weak signals in the
noise (CW EME on VHF/UHF and some while Topband DX'ing) and I am still
waiting for a DSP radio that outperforms my old analog radios and my
homebrew LM13600 audiofilter. The filter was published in QST in October
1983.  

For EME, my TS2000X with it's filter combinations is just not as
comfortable to listen to as the old FT736R and my vintage LM13600
audiofilter. I plain words, I copy much better on the old system. And DSP
in the low end Yaesu radios (FT817/897) is not performing anywhere near the
old analog systems. The same goes for the SDR's that I use. 

Granted, tuning in a very weak steady carrier in a narrow DSP filter (a few
tenths of Hz wide) can give you the impression that DSP is magic stuff. But
as soon as the carrier is chopped up into CW there is a 'mushiness to the
DSP processed white noise that affects copyability. For me, this can often
be verified when doing an A/B check on a very weak beacon that sends a long
carrier between it's CW ID's.

In my view, even static crashes when listening to weak signals on Topband
are easier to deal with when using analog filters.

But the whole audio chain is important. The choice of headphones is
certainly a key to success when it comes to copying weak CW in the noise.
Each one of course has his/her own preference when choosing headphones. My
best ever are a pair of very old Radio Shack Nova 10. They are badly
beaten and patched up with tape and glue, but I still use them every day
and they are the best headphones for copying weak CW that I've ever tried.
And beleive me, I have tried many headphones.

Some good tests for copying weak signals in the noise can be found at
http://sm2cew.com/wavefiles.html 

There might be one or two broken links on that page after a transfer to a
new server but try the plaintext59_17.wav it is a real challenge. There is
a genuine 59 character CW message in the noise and it is possible to copy
and decode it 100% by ear when using a good filter. Good luck!


73
Peter SM2CEW





At 12:58 2015-08-07 , Tom W8JI wrote:
 I'd like to know whether it's ever been established that some very 
 talented
 hams can out-hear the best SDRs and/or DSP available. Can a skilled
 ear-brain combo (such as some highly-skilled and talented 160 meter
 contesters) beat state-of-the art digital signal processing when it comes
 to copying the very weakest of signals buried in the noise?

Excluding time-synchronized signal processing methods, I've never found any 
DSP system do better or do more than an analog system in signal 
readabilitly.

They are really just different methods of doing the same thing analog 
systems can do.

I actually find DSP detector systems inhibit my ability to hear or copy 
noise floor signals in rough noise. I'm not sure why that is, but it is more 
difficult for me to piece together a signal that is in the noise when it has 
been detected in a DSP system.

I normally set my K3's so DSP filtering is wider than the analog filter at 
filter switch in, so I can change the DSP bandwidth from wider than any 
analog filter down to the DSP being narrower, but I still think analog 
detection is much better for signals below the level of rough noise.

73 Tom 

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Re: Topband: one-way propagation

[Peter Sundberg]

Last weekend was (finally) a return of over-the-pole conditions in my QTH,
similar to what we experienced frequently in 2009 and 2010. I could hear
western NA stations ALL day here, some with very good signals despite full
daylight at my end. They did not fade out until sunrise over there 14.00
GMT. 

Everyone I heard was coming in via SP, true beam heading across the pole.

I called many stations, repeatedly for long periods of time. Some signals
were peaking 559/569 in the rather slow QSB. Not even a QRZ in return,
except for VY2ZM, we worked at 1014 GMT.

One way propagation? No, I don't think so. I think that the fact I was not
heard was just the difference in noise levels at both ends. Probably adding
to that, the NA stations heard were using receive antennas that were
pointed anywhere BUT to the North pole.

On moonbounce I experience one way propagation very often. But then I can
mathematically explain why, it has to do with so called spatial offset and
a 45 degree Faraday rotation. No mystery, just a sound explanation because
of geometry. 

There are times during strong auroras when I can hear European stations on
low bands pretty well in the evenings but they can't hear me. Again, at
those times I am sure it is due to the noise level a the other end. If
signals are depressed by aurora up here at 65.4 N then the crud on the band
is also depressed. So I hear stations at S3-5 levels very well. But they
are probably seeing the normal S7 evening time noise background, masking
my signals completely. 

However, in contests, like the first night of CQ WW CW a couple of weeks
ago, it was frustrating to operate on 160m in the aurora. Even when doing
S/P it was difficult to work stations in northern Europe, although I heard
them very well at S2-3 levels.  

So, I don't think that there is a magic situation where one-way-propagation
exists on HF, it should be fully reciprocal. In my opinion it's rather a
result of different noise situations at both ends.

73 de Peter SM2CEW 



 

At 22:08 2012-12-04 , Mike Waters wrote:
I've often thought that some one-way propagation is simply due to the
differences in antennas. For example, two stations with the same power,
ambient noise level, etc. are receiving on Beverages pointed at each other,
but their TX antennas have different takeoff angles and/or patterns. For
example. station A with an NVIS antenna (like a low horizontal loop) might
hear station B who is transmitting on a vertical, but maybe not vice versa.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com
___
Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
 


___
Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com

Re: Topband: Web SDR's and 'Cheating'

[Peter Sundberg]

From the cluster, true or false:

OE3GCU  1822.5 3D2R  pse help.vk3 remote dwn1728 03 Oct   Rotuma Island
OE3GCU  1822.5 3D2R  remote rx vk3 dwn.pse help 1505 03 Oct   Rotuma Island

Someone must fix that vk3 remote rx..

I agree with Thor, Filipe, Kostas and others, fix your RX antennas and
enjoy working DX with your own stuff. Satisfaction guaranteed.

73 de Peter SM2CEW
www.sm2cew.com



At 19:25 2011-10-07 , ct1...@sapo.pt wrote:
Why use SDRs when there are Beverages, Pennants, K9AY loops? does one  
feel satisfied knowing he/she worked a rare DX station using someone  
else's RX antennas? if you are really into DXing you will feel bad  
about it.

T32C heard 3 times now using single 170m long beverage towards W6  
(recording available for anyone who wants to know how it sounds in  
Northern CT).

If you hear it, you work it, simple as this.

Filipe CT1ILT aka CR6K



Citando Kostas Stamatis sv1...@otenet.gr:

 Anyone who makes available his sdr without delay, just helps cheaters. We
 all know some of them who use a sdr receiver to make qsos. Maybe there
is no
 need anymore to learn the calls. Just stop this. A delay of 1min for
example
 is perfect to enjoy all the goods of an sdr receiver without helping
 cheaters. I don't know if software allows it but i don't think it is
 difficult.
 73 Kostas sv1dpi

 - Original Message -
 From: Thorvaldur Stefansson otrada...@gmail.com
 To: Brendan Minish ei6iz.bren...@gmail.com; topband@contesting.com
 Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2011 7:47 PM
 Subject: Re: Topband: Web SDR's and 'Cheating'


 hello Brendan,

 Perhaps this thread is too old, but I only now came across it, sorry if
 the
 subject has been beaten to death already.

 As you may know I have served my Perseus SDR receiver over the internet
 for
 almost a year - it never occurred to me that people would use it for
 cheating purposes.   I found the experiment interesting for a variety of
 technical issues - it also pleased me to allow remote users to experience
 what Zero Noise level sounds like.   Obviously the issues are the same
 whether a SDR or a regular remote receiver is used for cheating.

 http://microtelecom.it/map/PerseusServers.html  shows a map of remote
 Perseus receivers.

 However, reading your post on the topband reflector got me thinking that
 the
 scenario was familiar:

 I am hearing a station in the Caribbean on 160m with strong signals and I
 start calling him thinking he will be an easy QSO I call him
 constantly
 for about two hours without luck.

 In the beginning I do not have any propagation to EU, but he is working EU
 with a fairly good rate.

 When his signals have almost disappeared (RST 339) at my location and
 propagation has changed from TF to EU away from the Caribbean (!), he
 finally hears me and we had a QSO.

 This is cheating on so many levels I don?t know where to begin...

 the DX station is listening to a receiver located in EU - and because the
 DX
 has a good transmit antenna on an island surrounded by Salt Water he has a
 relatively good signal in EU  - but the DX suffers from high tropical
 noise
 making it difficult for him to hear the weaker signals.

 With the remote receiver, he can now clearly hear even the poorest signal
 from EU - stations with poor antennas are now able to work the DX
 station
 even though their setups should not be able to work any DX contacts at
 all -
 on the cluster the DX is spotted good ears  hears well worked with 5
 watts and window antenna and so on

 At the same time, one of the most powerful stations on the planet is
 unable
 to get through since I did not have propagation to EU!


 All the effort of building a superb station, trying to make use of elusive
 short propagation openings, all of this is flushed down the toiletand
 I
 am hearing that contesters have been doing this for years !

 So this is the reason that the 599+40 station can?t hear me!  not even a ?
 sometimes.

 And here  I was naive enough to think there was a rational explanation -
 this might be because the stations were using directive antennas and were
 listening in another direction - certainly plausible, I myself have long
 Beverage antennas which will have this effectI have even heard this
 explained as one way propagation

 I well remember my QSO with KH2L on Top Band a few years ago that was
 ruined
 by HB9... who was obviously using a remote receiver to help him hear the
 DX
 - the HB9 kept calling completely out of sync about 30 seconds off sync
 right on top of my transmissions during the QSO, he managed to ruin my QSO
 completely and it took me a whole year before I heard and worked KH2L
 again.I remember there was a russian station who was also calling in
 sync with the HB9 - both obviously with a similar internet delay.

 I have decided not to make my Perseus receiver available over the internet
 anymore because of these issues.

 Not naming the cheater only serves to create suspicion on other DX