Re: Topband: 1/4 wave sloper..aka half sloper.

[chetmoore]

-Original Message-
From: Topband  On Behalf Of 
Mark Robinson
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2022 4:59 PM
To: jim.thom jim.t...@telus.net ; 'topband' 

Subject: Re: Topband: 1/4 wave sloper..aka half sloper.

I am using a modified Alpha Delta DX-A1/4 wave sloper attached at approx 72 
feet on my 86 foot tower.  I removed the loading coil and now have 5  wires 
whch are two full size 160m wires, two full size 80m wires and a 60m wire.   I 
don't need a tuner on any of these bands.  It needs slight tuning on 30m.  I 
worked Amsterdam Island  on cw with it.


73 Mark N1UK



On 11-Jan-22 5:00 PM, jim.thom jim.t...@telus.net wrote:
>   Have any of you folks used, or tried a half sloper aka  1/4 wave
> sloper ?   Loaded or otherwise ?   I'm talking about say terminated up
> 80-90'  up a tower.
>
> I have used slopers on  75m  with reasonable success, but never  160m.
>
> Radials, elevated or on ( or in) the ground isn't happening.  Wife put 
> the kabosh on that.
>
> Jim   VE7RF
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Re: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?

[chetmoore]

So,  not only do we have a secret watering hole, we have special times
To be there?who knew???  for sure I didn't but then again I
Am just a rookie being licensed recently in 1962.

Chet N4FX


-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 3:06 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: QRPers calling CQ in the SP ?

On Thu,12/24/2015 11:45 AM, Barry N1EU wrote:
> Realistically, 95%+ of the QRO guys hunting for a clear run frequency 
> are not going to have a clue that 1810 is anything other than totally 
> available to them.

Right. And sometimes I'm part of the QRO crowd. :)

FWIW, I consider reserved frequencies a pretty bad idea. Whether QRP or QRO,
I do my best to find a frequency to run that will be clear at the DX
locations I want to work. And when QRP, I don't CQ a lot -- mostly when I'm
wanting to pass out Qs to locals.

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: Topband: Use of Remote Receivers During 160 Meter Contests

[chetmoore]

I am standing tall with W2GD that all contest qso's need to be located at
the same location as the xmtr. No
Remote rx allowed.

73

Chet Moore N4FX

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of John
Crovelli
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2015 1:33 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: Use of Remote Receivers During 160 Meter Contests



















Greetings Fellow Topband Contesters:
During the last week of January the topic of remote RX systems was
extensively discussed on the TB reflector.  I was on my way to K1N and
didn't have the time nor opportunity to pay proper attention. 
This week CQ160 Contest Director N2NT suggested I take a look at the
discussion and offer an opinion.  SoI went back and read ALL of your
posts.  
As a long-time 160 meter contester (spanning some four decades) it was quite
interesting to read what others thought important to them in terms contest
rules, station design, things that impact scores, and what they felt it took
to have 'fun' in a 160 meter contest.  Thanks for sharing.
My thoughts here are on the overall 160 meter contesting scene and
specifically about how remote RX systems would impact contest results.  I'll
leave it to others to sort out what some clearly see as a parallel theme -
how remote stations and systems impact DXCC country chasing. To me the DXCC
subject is not aligned with contesting and is best treated separately. 
I've long believed the multi-op competition between a select group of
serious N.A. entrants in the CQ160 CW is the most rigorous (and exciting)
competition in all of amateur radio contesting.  One need only look at how
amazingly close the results have been over the years to realize how well
matched the stations and operating teams have been. This high level of
parity did not happen by accident. 
Teams and stations have come and gone over the past 30 years.  The most
successful players in 160 meter multi-op include such notables as WW2Y,
W1KM, K1ZM, KC1XX, VY2ZM, K1LZ, W8JI, W2FU, VE3EJ, W4RM, WB9Z, N0NI and my
own 160 team operating from various locations in NJ as W2GD since ~1985.
Yes, this is an exclusive group, almost all located east of the Mississippi
River.  There is little question location maters, but that doesn't diminish
the amount of work and technical innovation these teams have exhibited on
their path to success.  
Generally speaking, success in the 160 multi game requires teamwork,
dedication, a flare for innovation, advanced antenna and station design,
careful construction practices, regular station maintenance, and expert on
the air execution. There is no free ride.you snooze you loose.  Year
after year incremental station improvements are the norm.  
For the record I'm OPPOSED to the use of receiving systems located somewhere
other than on station property.  It's my belief that once you alter what
amounts to a common or similar RF environment found present at a typical
contest station location, the playing field changes, and event results
become a function of something much more complex and unpredictable. If you
introduce a remote element to the technical mix, serious teams are forced to
deal with a new set of technical solutoins which seemingly have few
boundaries.  Allowing use of a remotely located RX antenna systems would be
a HUGE GAME CHANGER, just as SO2R techniques have forever changed the single
op category   The ability to compare accomplishments is no longer 'apples to
apples' when remote station technologies creep into the rules.   
The ability to accomplish near duplex reception on 160 meters is the holy
grail which most successful 160 teams have long worked to achieveusing
on-site solutions.  Over the past 20 years my team has spent literally
hundreds of hours experimenting with numerous antenna systems and noise
cancelling techniques to accomplish something close to duplex capability. It
is particularly difficult on topband as anyone who has gone down this road
knows...and we've never enjoyed total success despite our best efforts.   
The most successful M/S, M/2 and M/M stations world-wide have found a
variety of solutions to the on-site duplex reception issue, most notably on
the higher frequency bands where the technical solutions are somewhat less
difficult but also on 160, 80 and 40 where physical separation of radiators
and receptors is a greater challenge to overcome. Having two (or more)
stations on the same band has almost become a baseline requirement to ensure
a competitive and maybe winning entry, esp. in M/S.  This all took technical
innovation, advanced design work, and undoubtedly great patience while doing
hours and hours of trial and error testing..and then more revision and
more testing to maintain.  Those who have successfully conquered these
technical problems of duplex reception should be held in high esteem by us
all ... they earned an operational advantage few have achieved.  If this
were easy, everyone would be doin

Re: Topband: K1N 5,399 q's on 160 M

[chetmoore]

 note to all  stateside K1N  detractors 


Here are some things that will hopefully be in the  DX'ING FOR DUMMIES BOOK

1. K1N is over. I am not convinced that any group anywhere did it better.
that applies to all bands more specifically 160 meters.
 
2. NEWS FLASH!  There will be other dx peditions in the future. Only 2 days
notice??? We Had several months notice of the proposed K1N operation. If you
are not subscribed to the daily dx,  the weekly dx, the NJDXA bulletin, the
ARRL DX Bulletin,the KB8NW DX bulletin some of which are free, you should
look into it. Engraved notices were not sent out and it is your own fault
for not having enough notice.  

3. Missing  K1n which was basically in your back yard should be part of your
"lessons learned"  after action  report. If your station could not make a
K1N contact, it  was either an operator malfunction or your station needs
some work.

4.  If you do not have an extra class license, upgrade it or stop
complaining about it.  No code licenses have been here for years. CW is no
longer a barrier to upgading your license. There are 11 year old kids with
extra class  licenses. Take your  radio clubs next license upgrade class. If
I were you I would  Sign up for that class  TODAY.  Think of it another way.
If you can operate CW, that gives you 9 more band opportunities where you
can work them. why limit yourself needlessly.  Bonus, even more band
opportunities are available if you radio does RTTY.

5. No antenna for 160 or 60 meters?  Start building your antenna TODAY.

6. No match box to load your antenna up on other bands?  Buy or build
one TODAY.

7. If your xyl is nagging you about Saturdays spent listening to the dx
bands?  Send her out to a spa for the  day you want to devote to dxing. You
might be surprised to find her asking you if you have any other days you
would like to devote to dx-ing. In some circles this is called a win-win
situation.

8.If your radio does not do 20 kc splits,  TODAY would be a good day to
upgrade your radio, buy or build a VFO
  Or live dangerously and read the manual for the radio you have now.

9  Be there !! You can be right at your radio and still miss announcements
of where the dx is listening.  If you are out of the room listening on a
speaker 15 feet away it is easy to miss the DX station announcing he has
shifted from listening 5 kcs  up to listening 5 kcs down. Listening from
across the room almost assures that you will miss  announcements of this
type, especially in a heavy DQRM situation such as EU only, NA only, ATNO,
QRX-5 fueling generator etc. 
 
10. Requesting or suggesting the dx station should go to another band,
general sub bands or other requests via DX-Watch  or sending a thank you on
the  packet cluster? Please know that the individual operators on most
dx-peditions are not watching the dx cluster nor do they have dx watch on
their cell phone even if they had enough signal to do so.  Further, most of
the american dx ops do not know all of the sub bands by memory and for sure,
the dx ops from other countries do not know and could not care less about
the general sub bands.

11. Just because a web site mentions or does not mention a band, or sub band
or a band they plan to concentrate on does not mean they will or will not
cover it. Radios and antennas  fail or may have to be shared between several
bands. If you read the pre dx-pedition freq plan  for K1N.  Their initial
plan was to work 10M SSB  and not do any 10 CW.  Even so, I noted a
significant  amount of Q's were made on 10 cw.  Again, you have to BE THERE.
You snooze?
YOU LOSE !!!

12.  Most importantly of all,  If you did not CONTRIBUTE to a specific
DX-pedition,  I really think you should refrain from complaining about it. A
list of donors can often be found on the dx-pedition web site by clicking on
the donor button.

13. If you are a casual  weekend dx'er with a casual station,  you should
not be surprised or disappointed when you get CASUAL RESULTS.

After reading this if you are still looking for someone to blame when you
miss the next dx-pedition, take
A long look in the mirror.

 73

Chet N4FX

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 12:44 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: K1N 5,399 q's on 160 M

Larry .. don't jump all over me  what exatcly was "in my control" of k1n
? --- sure i could risk a fine by calling on 3775 

I listened almost 10hrs straight (my wife not exactly happy - on saturday ),
while cleaning my radio room up ( garage) and via remote in the living
room... i didn't ever hear a notification that he was listening ... up at
3800+ ... plenty of notices of 70Khz up.  and frankly  do 100% of
the hams have radios that are capable of splits that wide  i see why
heathkit twins were popular !!!


*I'm asking what did i miss*  besides not having a extra call  
its obious -- 

Re: Topband: K1N DQRM Tracking Project

[chetmoore]

The wullenweber at the USCG electronics lab in Alexandria va (K4CG) was
available to any government agency
Who wanted to use it.  It was used by the Navy, the USCG for search and
rescue, the FCC and we had other
Agencies come there who never actually identified what agency having made
arrangements with the commanding
Officer before coming out. 

Chet N4FX

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
mstang...@comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 1:38 PM
To: Mike Waters
Cc: topband
Subject: Re: Topband: K1N DQRM Tracking Project

The actors on 14.313 were on the air for months. They also advertised their
calls so it was probably easy to track then.

It's different if a DQRM'er is on sporadically and on different frequencies.

I thought the Wullenweber was use by the Military, not the FCC.

Mike N2MS
- Original Message -
From: Mike Waters 
To: topband 
Sent: Tue, 10 Feb 2015 18:04:17 - (UTC)
Subject: Re: Topband: K1N DQRM Tracking Project

You may have seen an old Wullenweber antenna array at one of those older FCC
sites. IIRC, one is (or was) on the east coast. AFAIK, the Wullenweber is
not used anymore by the FCC and is scheduled to be (or already has been)
replaced with a different --and far less complex-- antenna.

One thing the FCC uses their newest HFDF system for is to pinpoint the
source of some idiots who make a sick hobby out of QRMing, for example,
14.313. There are remote locations all over North America. The FCC claims
--and I believe them-- that they can use that system to quickly triangulate
an HF transmitter's location with a very high degree of accuracy.

>From looking at the PDF I referenced earlier, I'm not certain that all the
remote locations are in operation yet. The last one appears to have a
completion date of sometime later this year.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

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Re: Topband: Missing K1N 160m QSO records just uploaded to Clublog

[chetmoore]

You are not alone by any means.  mY 160 q is still not there either

Chet N4FX

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tree
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2015 1:35 PM
To: kol...@rcn.com
Cc: 160
Subject: Re: Topband: Missing K1N 160m QSO records just uploaded to Clublog

Well - at least the QSOs I know of from 4-Feb never did show up in Club Log.
So I think the point is that there seems to be a large number of QSOs that
never made it to club log.

Tree N6TR (holding off on working them a second time since I have to get my
remote rig stuff setup again)

On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 10:31 AM,   wrote:
>
> I think the point was that if you NEVER saw your QSO in Clublog, work
again. If you saw it in Clublog before it's still in the logs on the island,
so you are OK.
>
> Kevin K3OX
>
>
> - Original Message -
>
> From: "Doug Renwick" 
> To: "Tree" , "Lloyd Berg N9LB" 
> Cc: "160" 
> Sent: Friday, February 6, 2015 12:55:00 PM
> Subject: Re: Topband: Missing K1N 160m QSO records just uploaded to 
> Clublog
>
> Tree,
>
> My 80 and 160m Feb 4 Q's are still not showing.
> Best thing is to work them again following their advice.
>
> Doug
>
> I wasn't born in Saskatchewan, but I got here as soon as I could.
>
> -Original Message-
>
> This is good news - but still not seeing my call or ZL3IX who worked 
> him just before me.
>
> QSO was around 0930 on 4 Feb UTC.
>
> Others???
>
> Tree N6TR
>
> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 9:40 AM, Lloyd Berg  N9LB 
> 
> wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> They just uploaded the missing K1N 160m QSO records to Clublog site a 
>> few minutes ago. ~ 7000 entries!
>>
>> ... including my missing 160m QSO :-)
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Lloyd - N9LB
>>
>
>
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Re: Topband: Inverted L

[chetmoore]

NO interaction noted at my qth on 80 or 40m.   90 foot tower,  2 element
cushcraft xm 240 at 75 feet, ten foot yardarm through the tower (ab-105) at
70 feet. 80m inverted vee hung off one side,  inverted L hung off the other
side of the yard arm 70 feet vertical And rest sloping down to 35 fee & tied
off to a tree.  30 radials.   Tail of inverted vee has been  pointed in all
4 directions. no difference noted but because it is rumored to be
directional  it has been left pointed west In hopes of hearing a KL7 or a JA
on TB. So far NO JOY with either JA or KL7.

Chet N4FZ

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
KD0Q-Glenn
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2015 7:13 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Inverted L

There will be some interaction.  How much?  All depends.  You can get some
idea by modeling with EZNEC.  The tower can have some effect too.

Glenn
KD0Q

On 1/30/2015 11:55, Don wrote:
> What interaction between a Inverted L and 80 & 40 meter dipoles off the
same tower ?
>
> Don
> W4DEE
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>


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Re: Topband: over confident

[chetmoore]

HMM If they are uploading directly to N1fZ  it Could also be that N1FZ just 
got his LOTW card today without lifting a finger if he checks LOTW quickly
.

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of K1FZ-Bruce
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2015 5:06 PM
To: Topband
Subject: Topband: over confident

 
  Worked EP6T last night, well sort of,...errr.. thought I did. He came right 
back after I gave my call once on a new transmit frequency.. 
 I heard loud static crash, dah, qrm, 1FZ . I went back with a contest type 5NN 
& TU. He came back with a TU. 
 and into my log book. 
  
 Then I got a email from a, near by qth, DX friend.. Said "think he had your 
call as N1FZ".  It was past signal peak by the time I read the email.   The 
next day (Friday) found I was not in the EP6T online log book, and N1FZ was. 
  
 I should have given my call before and after giving him his report,  Will 
I try again, you can bet your bippy I will. 
  
 73
 Bruce-K1FZ
  
 PS: BOG Antenna notes have been updated,   
www.qsl.net/k1fz/bogantennanotes/index.html
  
  
  
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Re: Topband: W/K/VE callers in the Arrl Dx Contests

[chetmoore]

I think Jeff has it right. It just quicker to give them a report.

-Original Message-] On Behalf Of k...@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 8:25 AM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: W/K/VE callers in the Arrl Dx Contests

Hi Guys


I have been reading this thread and I too get hundreds of W callers in ARRL
DX - both modes.


It does cover weak signal callers on 160m especially - and I have in the end
determined not to ignore them.


I handle it this way:


1) ON CW - I just work the station but send 599 only - no power - so they
get the idea that they did something wrong eg:,  that ours was not a valid
contest qso (if that is what they were looking for).  If they were just
looking for a straight qso they still get one and a qsl if they send me one
direct.


2) ON SSB - well this is even worse - I get W callers way down in even the
CANADIAN sub-bands if you can believe that!


Here, since it is phone, I say" ur 5x9 but you want to work DX - I am in
CANADA".  For those who call me outside the W/K sub-bands, I advise them
also that they are outside their allotted FCC band.


To give you an idea of how often this happens - when Scott W4PA operated
from here during an ARRL CW DX Test a few years ago, he kept a tally sheet
- and in the end it was something over 200 W/K callers.


Is it a distraction - YES to be sure - but as I age, I realize that there
was a time when I too was a beginning contest operator.


In my first SS in 1959 - I sent the LONG exchange (of those days) totally
out of order the whole weekend - later realizing my mistake - but those on
the other end just said "ROGER" and accepted the qso gladly.


This activity is not likely to just "disappear" despite what we say about it
here on this reflector - so it is best just to get them out of the way as
fast as you can and keep going.


Stewing over it is not really going to gain us much - is it?  And, I get
more of this stuff than you would ever want to know!


FWIW


73 JEFF.VY2ZM










 Original Message 
From: Doug Renwick 
To: 'topband' 
Sent: Tue, Feb 18, 2014 12:42 am
Subject: Re: Topband: Contest in progress - few signals


I am not picking on any one operator.  But guys think about it.  If you all
start/continue working 0 point NA stations ... do you not think that it
encourages these stations to continue this behaviour?  It's becoming
everybody work everybody all the time.  If you are happy working these
stations ... that's your personal choice ... fine ... that's not my personal
choice.  Enough said by me.
Doug

"Think of all the ways you can hurt yourself laughing."



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Re: Topband: In search of resonance

[chetmoore]

Thanks for this tidbit of information.  As soon as this white manure melts
(some people call it snow)   I will do a re-check on my shunt fed tower.  I
think I did have at least one  dip to zero and never did find a resonance
point.

Thanks

Chet N4FX

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom W8JI
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 1:34 PM
To: Tree
Cc: 160; Carl Braun
Subject: Re: Topband: In search of resonance


> You might be dealing with AM BCB being detected by the meter - and 
> masking what you are looking for.
>

No, because he gets a dip to zero reactance.

If that happens anywhere, there is no BCI.


73 Tom 

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Re: Topband: Well, Duh... (Apology re: ARRL160)

[chetmoore]

Hi Guy,

I do not know if I was in the window.  I was not looking as I too thought
there was no
Longer a DX window any more. 

73

Chet moore  N4FX

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Guy
Olinger K2AV
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 7:53 PM
To: TopBand List
Subject: Topband: Well, Duh... (Apology re: ARRL160)

I screwed up and spent a couple of one hour stretches Saturday night CQing
in the DX window until someone got my attention and convinced me that ARRL
still had a DX window in their 160 contest, even though the CQ 160 and both
all-band DX tests had dumped theirs years ago, and I thought I remembered
ARRL HQ group voted to drop it from their 160 as well. [1]

** But no excuses for not knowing the rules.** So that makes my entry
invalid, and will be submitted this year only as a check log. My entry will
not have an invalid advantage over anyone else's. Apologies to anyone I may
have inconvenienced.

73, Guy K2AV

[1] Actually June, 2009, yes they did vote to drop it, and it was the ARRL
Contest Advisory Committee. See:


http://www.arrl.org/files/file/About%20ARRL/Committee%20Reports/July/29_Cont
est_Advisory_Committee.pdf

An interesting read.

Should note that the report phrases the current rule as a "recommendation",
as if to indicate they don't consider it a hard rule, and *nobody* voted to
make it a "requirement". They consider the rule unenforceable. From the
report:

"4. Vote: Rule 6.1
 A. Delete (9)
 B. Make it a requirement (0)
 C. Leave it as a recommendation (7)"

The report lists in their committee discussion many of the issues brought up
in a thread on the DX window on TopBand a week or so ago.
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Re: Topband: How much ground independence?

[chetmoore]

Hi Bruce,

 

I can't speak to a flag but I had a W2UP rotatable loop that I turned with a
small

TV rotor and one of your transformers. It worked great for about  year until
I ran 4 or 5 radials out to within about 10 feet of it. Bottom of the loop
was about 8 feet off the ground. It lost all Directivity  and once taken
down at the end of the 160 season,  I never 

Put it back up.  There was the possibility to get the bottom wire up 15 feet

Higher were I to put it back up but really did not expect that to help and
never put it 

Back up.  It was quieter than the shunt fed tower and seemed to pull the
weaker sigs

Out of the noise when I switched between the 2.  

 

Sigs from the west coast were particularly weaker here this year than I
remember them

Being last year.  In the test this weekend, I missed working ve7oo. He had a
lot of qsb

On him at this qth and I could not hear which stations he was coming back
to. I wonder

If the loop would have pulled him in.   I too wonder if adding 10 -20 feet
in height 

Above the radial field would get the directivity back.That could be a
project for

A warmer and dryer day than we have today.   Some consideration has been
given to digging

Up the radials noted above or  shortening them by 20 - 30 feet. If I had
reason to believe

It would help, I could get it up another 20 feet and shorten the radials by
that amount.

I did not detune the loop on xmit.  As for good front to back, The loop
could hear

Sigs that were not audible on the shunt fed tower Those sigs of which I
speak, were

Not moving the s meter but it was the difference between knowing they were
there and

Being able to copy well enough to call the station after they called CQ.

 

73

 

Chet N4FX

 

-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bruce
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2013 11:51 AM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: How much ground independence?

 

Has anyone installed a Flag antenna over a radial field?  

 

What was the flag height above ground? 

 

Did it hear well and have a good front to back?

 

If poor performance, did de-tuning the transmit antenna make a large
difference ? 

 

If the flag was moved to a non-radial field location, what was the
difference?

 

Thank you in advance,

 

73

Bruce-K1FZ

 
www.qsl.net/k1fz/beveragenotes.html

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