Re: Topband: B7P
It is also my experience that stations in China and Southeast Asia in general do not hear well at all on the low bands. One exception is BG2AUE. I have worked him multiple times on 80m CW from my QTH in the Boston area. He hears extremely well on 80. Every single time I've worked him there, he's been very weak but he's always answered me immediately. I've also seen him spotted a few times on 160 but have yet to hear him there. That's an extremely difficult path from W1 on 160. In fact, zone 24 is one of the two remaining zones I need for 160 WAZ, the other zone being 26. 73, John W1FV _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 9M2AX finally after 15 years
Congratulations Steve for this epic contact! As already pointed out, much of the difficulty is the very high level of QRN on Ross's end. He gets almost daily thunderstorms. My experience coincides with what Dave, W0FLS, said. The most favorable conditions to work 9M2AX are around the equinoxes. Ross has said his noise level is lowest then. After 20 years of chasing Ross, I finally worked him right around our spring equinox on March 23, 2007. From here in W1, the path is a skewed path to the SE, and that path seems to exist (sporadically) only during low sunspot years. At best, it's a very marginal and difficult path. I had been hearing 9M2AX throughout that month just after my sunset but he was never able to pull me through. Finally we got enhanced propagation on March 23 just a few minutes after my sunset and a few minutes before his sunrise. There were signal bursts almost like meteor scatter pings. We were able to exchange callsigns and signal reports before he quickly disappeared. I continued to hear Ross until the first week in April, after which we no longer had any common darkness. It's good to hear that Ross is active again after several years off the low bands. It takes a lot of persistence on his end to listen to QRNNN every day and make only an occasional contact. 73, John W1FV -Original Message- From: Topband On Behalf Of David Raymond Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 4:01 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: 9M2AX finally after 15 years Congratulations Steve! I've learned over the years that the best time to work Ross, at least from here in the Midwest (Iowa), is within a month or so of either fall or spring equinoxes. Ross has always been a reliable, persistent operator and works hard to pull calls through his QRN. 73. . .Dave, W0FLS On 2/12/2024 1:28 PM, ve...@shaw.ca wrote: > For at least 15 years (perhaps more) I have been chasing Ross 9M2AX for a new > one on 160m. > For some reason, a QSO has eluded us. > > >From VE6 Ross is 13,000km at 320 degrees AZ, and the path is usually skewed > >southward. > Every morning this winter season I have been at the radio RX for Ross, but in > spite of fair-good reports from ops down south in AZ and CA, I have never > copied him. > > For some reason, this morning his signal peaked up just before my sunrise. > My tower was cranked down, so I had to wait for it to get to full height and > the amp to warm up. > > After many calls and a few QRZ? Ross gave a 6 ?. A few more calls and he had > my call, but gave me a VE6WZ ?? without a report. > I responded with ONLY his report and made sure NOT to send my call again. I > was getting quite concerned that I might lose the contact after I sent my > report many times. > Finally, Ross came back with a 339 and we completed the QSO. > Our QSO was at 1452z, 10min before my sunrise at 1502z. > > Ross struggles with very high QRN in 9M2 so I am very grateful he was able to > pull me out. > Because I have waited so many years for this QSO, I wanted it to be as "pure" > as possible, so I avoided any packet cluster "hints" that I was calling, and > I did not acknowledge I was even QRV in the KST chat room. > > I must say that Ross is a true QRN-warrior to persevere through what must be > painful RX conditions! > > I was TX with the 2 el Parasitic array, and listening in diversity. > > Here is a recording of our QSO. If you listen, you will understand why I was > quite worried I was going to lose the QSO. > This morning his signal seemed almost equal on the direct path, and the skew > west path. > In the left ear is the west 4 element BSEF Beverage (BOG) array, and the > right ear is the Asia 2 el Beverage (BOG) broadside phased pair. > (the clicking is poor internet packet dropouts on my connection to my > remote 100km north of my home) > > https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ot1RhA1Gim1VoHEw6u0QA3T7QShf9bCE/view > ?usp=sharing > > 73, de steve, ve6wz > https://www.youtube.com/@ve6wz/videos > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: NCC-2 antenna pattern?
If you are going to use the NCC-2 to null a nearby in-band transmitter, I think it's very likely that the NCC-2 will get overloaded by the extremely strong RF and not be usable. I've tried this before and found that to be the case. In fact, I designed my own totally passive nuller to get around this problem. It worked and was able to create very deep nulls on an in-band transmitter, but turned out to be very impractical because it required constant adjustment to maintain a null as antennas were changed or rotated. The other thing to consider is that if the interference is coming from the same direction as a signal you want to hear, nulling the interference will also null the signal. Nulling works best when the interference comes from a very different direction than the signal. It also helps greatly if the interference sensing antenna receives the interference much more strongly than the main antenna. This can be done by placing the sensing antenna close to the interference source, if that's possible. 73, John W1FV -Original Message- From: Topband On Behalf Of Kenny Silverman Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2023 10:05 PM To: Rick Kunath Cc: topband Subject: Re: Topband: NCC-2 antenna pattern? Rick, my application is for an in-band RX antenna, but on a higher band. I just thought the guys here might know more about the NCC-2, MFJ or QRM eliminator than most others. One thought was to create a 2 ele phased vertical array for the RX antenna with a known pattern and put the null towards the TX array, along with physical separation to allow in-band receiving. But I was thinking an adjustable phasing system may produce a better null. But I wouldn’t want the adjustable unit to create a clover leaf pattern for example. One null might take out the interference but another null towards the desired receiving direction might be created and is not desired. I hope I’m explaining this well. Regards , Kenny K2KW > On Dec 16, 2023, at 9:47 PM, Rick Kunath wrote: > > What's your application Kenny and what would you be feeding the antenna > output of the phaser into? > > Rick Kunath, K9AO > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: H44WA 22-Nov
BrianThank you very much to you and the team for hanging in there right up to your SR. Solar conditions were not favourable today and propagation stopped 500 miles east of UK with a good run in to Germany around 1730z then appeared to recede rapidly eastwards after that. Here's hoping for better conditioins in the coming days.73John G3XHZ On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 01:37:25 PM GMT, John Farrer wrote: Hi Brian Thank you for this great effort on LF. We in western EU hope you will continue at least until our SS , G 1610, EA 1700, CT 17.20. 73 John G3XHZ Sent from my iPhone > On 21 Nov 2023, at 23:56, Brian Moran via Topband > wrote: > > Greetings, we'll be focusing on CW on 160m from 0730z (our sunset) through > approximately 1500z as conditions and callers hold up. We will have short > stoppages at various times to refuel our generator and change operators, or > for operator breaks. > > > We worked a number of US and EU stations last evening on both CW and FT8. > > Brian N9ADG for H44WA > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: H44WA 22-Nov
Hi Brian Thank you for this great effort on LF. We in western EU hope you will continue at least until our SS , G 1610, EA 1700, CT 17.20. 73 John G3XHZ Sent from my iPhone > On 21 Nov 2023, at 23:56, Brian Moran via Topband > wrote: > > Greetings, we'll be focusing on CW on 160m from 0730z (our sunset) through > approximately 1500z as conditions and callers hold up. We will have short > stoppages at various times to refuel our generator and change operators, or > for operator breaks. > > > We worked a number of US and EU stations last evening on both CW and FT8. > > Brian N9ADG for H44WA > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 250, Issue 20
Hi George Is your question aimed at North Americans or the all of us? I’m sure it’s at least that rare here in Europe. We’d love you to try 160m. 73 John G3XHZ Sent from my iPhone > On 31 Oct 2023, at 17:29, Bill Weaver wrote: > > I missed you guys on KH8/S (multiple tries ). Would love to take a crack at > KH8 at sunrise here (1100Z - 1200Z). > > Safe travels and 73, > Bill WE5P > > Comfortably Numb > >> Message: 7 >> Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2023 04:53:27 -0400 >> From: "GEORGE WALLNER" >> To: "Topband Reflector" >> Subject: Re: Topband: KH8 Demand on TB >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed" >> >> Hello TobBanders, >> I am in American Samoa (KH8) and will be in the Manua Islands, AH54 (OC-77), >> later this week. I may have a chance to set up a 160 m station and operate >> for a few days. How much wanted is KH8 on TB? ClubLog indicates that it is >> quite rare at #30 on 160 m, but I find that hard to believe for a place >> recently activated by a number of groups. >> >> >> TKS, >> George, >> AA7JV >> > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Radial Attachment Plate
I had a DX Engineering radial plate on my P40A 160m vertical and had zero corrosion. You could cut one in half to go around the tower. Rolling up multiple attached wires would likely become a tangles mess. You should be able to find suitable stainless steel angle at Mc-Master Carr, drilling a Ø5/8 hole is easy. You could also drill multiple holes and bolt the radials directly to the angle. https://www.mcmaster.com/products/angles/material~stainless-steel-2/corrosio n-resistant-316-stainless-steel-6/ John KK9A Stan Stockton k5go wrote: Jim, Thanks for pointing me to that review. I looked at that picture. These are 304 grade stainless. DX Engineering's plate is the same - 304 stainless steel which is not the best for corrosion resistance. 316 would be much better. Those in the review were installed on a table 100 feet from the sea with the crappy sheet metal screws included that will definitely corrode. Of course there is a huge difference between 75 or 100 feet and 5 miles from the salt water regarding corrosion. My plan is to get all my radials attached and then perhaps spray the whole thing with liquid electrical tape and deploy it when I am there for a few months a year. Then I will roll the radials up and store it intact when I am not there, relying on however many radials I have buried during the off season. In my application I want it around a tower which this will do and the DX Engineering plate will not. There are several sizes and the smallest one which would be good for a vertical made from aluminum tubing would only cost $7.99 delivered. Can't beat that deal. What I need now is a stainless steel angle the right size and preferably with a 5/8" hole to mount an SO-239 to the radial plate. 73...Stan _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: ZD9W
I heard them a couple nights ago on 160 CW, around 2330Z, roughly an hour after local sunset in W1. They were actually quite strong on peaks but there was deep QSB that took them down to almost nothing. They seemed to be having trouble hearing. I heard them come back to N1DG but all the other stations they worked were Europeans. 73, John W1FV -Original Message- From: Topband On Behalf Of Craig Clark Sent: Monday, October 9, 2023 12:29 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: ZD9W Looking at DX Summit it looks like FT* will be his preferred mode of operation. Not on digital. Any information on possible CW operation? Craig Clark K1QX 603-520-6577 cell 603-899-6103 home Sent from my iPad _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: For a Bog how bent is too bent
Hi all I have a roughly 2 acre lot. Looking to install a BOG. Due to House, driveway, Brook, etc to get the wire I would need to bend things a bit. What Im wondering is how much is too much. Is something like a 45degree bend going to make this thing useless? Or is the only way Im ever going to know is to just run out the wire and see. Part of this is Im not the most mobile I ever was. Some of the areas are heavily wooded with a few generations of deadfall/cudzoo etc. Fishing for ideas Prefer to keep it on the ground ( I know that's a compromise in the first place. Also would there be any use/benefit of placing a loop on the ground as far as noise reduction is concerned? Loop could be rectangular or square say 100 or so feet on a side? Just fishing around for ideas I have read about pendants and ewe's (my mentor back in the day was Floyd Wa2wvl) and traditional beverages . Just want to keep it on the ground and see what else I can hear. thanks all 73 de John KO1H Van Buren ME _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: We need better preamps for 160 because FT8 activity
Tim Duffy's AA7JV R.I.B. interview is on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XqBhp7M2Uk John KK9A N1RR Wrote: George, Jim, Where can we find George's work for these items ?? -Charlie N1RR _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: High Impedance RX Antennas
Another tool I've found indispensable for setting up and troubleshooting phased vertical RX arrays is a two-port VNA. I use an Array Solutions VNA-2180 (now discontinued) for critical measurements. I also have a NanoVNA H4 (https://nanovna.com/) which is a very "affordable" VNA that can be used as a portable, handheld, standalone instrument and that you can take out in the field. In most cases, the NanoVNA H4 is more than good enough. There is a learning curve to using a VNA. However, once you learn it, you'll be able to make very accurate measurements of delay line lengths, preamplifier gain and phase, phase combiner gain and phase. Most VNA's also have a TDR function, although it is usually based on frequency domain measurements that are transformed to the time domain. I'm running a homebrew RX array and it would have been almost impossible to get it running as well as it is now without a VNA. 73, John W1FV _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: CQ World Wide 160-Meter Contest
N2AA is the "Loud Is Good Contest Club" so I guess their name is appropriate:) John KK9A Nick UY0ZG wrote: The loudest station from the United States was N2AA. -- Nick, UY0ZG _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 1940 kHz Intruder
Here in the Greater Boston area, the signal peaks from the southwest on my 8-circle array. It's not real strong, varying between S4 and S6. I can tell there is some audio in there but it's not strong enough to identify. 73, John W1FV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+john.kaufmann=verizon@contesting.com] On Behalf Of David Olean Sent: Wednesday, January 4, 2023 7:09 PM To: Frank W3LPL; topband Subject: Re: Topband: 1940 kHz Intruder I listened this evening at 2345 UT Jan 4, and hear the best strength with a southwest beverage. I live in Southern Maine. Signal was about S9 and sounded distorted with possibly two station audio streams. I hope this helps. My beverages were really messed up (destroyed is more like it) from the last cyclone around christmas. My EU and East wires are dead at the moment. I have all the others working again. Dave K1WHS On 1/3/2023 5:56 PM, Frank W3LPL wrote: > The 1940 kHz broadcast station is audible now (2245Z Tuesday) > Its roughly northeast of Maryland, perhaps in New England > > I did not hear it yesterday > > 73 > Frank > W3LPL > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: RFI tripping GFI breaker on 160m
GFI breakers can be finicky. If a GFI is really needed try a different brand breaker. John KK9A AB2E wrote: I trip a GFI breaker sometimes on 160m, usually in a contest 1500W. Never had a problem when GFI outlets were the norm, but I had some electrical work done in an added room and the new code calls for a GFI breaker. Has anyone had a similar experience and located an RFI resistant GFI breaker? 73 and HNY, Darrell AB2E _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Verticals on the beach
I'm not sure if this helps but can you put a smaller vertical near the water's edge and then run a top loading wire angled to the tower top? John KK9A Stan Stockton K5GO wrote: Kenny, It's not easy and in fact I haven't done it for anything lower than 40m. It would be very interesting to compare something at the water's edge to what I have now. The shoreline runs SW-NE - I think about 215-35. The question is how much better it would be if the antenna were right next to the water. I don't have a clue as to whether it would be significantly better or not. Of course I'm talking about Europe. If you drew a straight line 45 degrees from the tower it would not be over water until you went 15 miles, yet I'm robably over water in less than 100 feet if you go about 25 degrees from the antenna. I cannot imagine that I have no significant improvement to 45 degrees because a straight line to 45 degrees does not go over water for many miles but I don't have the knowledge to prove it. I would bet, however, that it would be very difficult to match the signal to locations 45 degrees with a single element located a quarter mile SE of where my tower is located. Maybe someone has some idea of just how much better my signal would be if I had a 160m vertical 65 feet closer to the water? If I were convinced it would be significantly better it would be a safe bet that I would find a way to accomplish it - at least for on-site 160m DX Contest operations. 73.Stan, ZF9CW _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: [RFI] Powerline noise question
The WD8DSB mini-flag truly is a fantastic RFI-hunting tool. When I saw the original article in QST, I recognized immediately that this was a great "invention" by WD8DSB. Like many of you, I deal with quite a bit of man-made RFI on 160m, so I bought one of the very first ones sold by DX Engineering. Of course, it's not hard to build your own from the QST article. The antenna is very broadband and works from the medium wave bands up to at least 50 MHz. Having a unidirectional pattern with a sharp null off the back is a huge advantage over conventional bidirectional DF loops. You can narrow down direction of signal arrival unambiguously to within a few degrees. As W3LPL says, it is a very low gain antenna that does need a very good preamp behind it. You need a preamp with not only a lot of gain but also a very good noise figure because ultimately the sensitivity for hunting weak signals is limited by noise. I have the companion preamp that DX Engineering sells for this antenna. Its noise figure is about 4 to 5 dB, which is quite good for a reasonably priced, battery-powered preamp that you can carry around with you. By way of comparison, I also have a homebrew high gain (35 dB) preamp, made with MMIC's, with a noise figure of 2 dB, which is very close to the best you can do for HF. However, most of the time I use the DX Engineering preamp because it is good enough for all but the weakest signals. Bottom line is that the WD8DSB mini-flag and a portable receiver are all you need for tracking down noise sources. As one more auxiliary tool, I sometimes use the tinySA Ultra (an improved version of the original tinySA hand-portable spectrum analyzer) to look at the spectral signature of a suspected source in the field to confirm it's the same source that I'm seeing at my station. See tinysa.org/wiki/ for more information. Disclaimers: I have no affiliation or commercial interest in DX Engineering or the tinySA product. 73, John W1FV -Original Message- From: Frank W3LPL To: Richard Cc: rfi ; PVRC ; topband Sent: Fri, Dec 30, 2022 8:09 pm Subject: Re: Topband: [RFI] Powerline noise question Rick, You'll be very pleased with the performance of the WB8DSB RFI hunting flag antenna. Don't forget to need lots of preamp gain. The WB8DSB flag is about 60 dB down from a dipole on 160 meters. 40 dB of preamp gain is needed until you're very close to the RFI source. 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: "Richard" To: "Frank W3LPL" , "rfi" , "PVRC" , "topband" Sent: Friday, December 30, 2022 8:25:47 PM Subject: Re: [RFI] Powerline noise question Thanks Frank. You got me unstuck. I have ordered the DX Engineering Kits and the PL330 receiver. 73 Rick N6RK _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: ARRL 160 busted spot
I mostly ran in my short time in the ARRL 160, but on a Sunday am quick ALT A trip down the Available Mult Q Window I did hit a busted spot for I think K1LZ. Spot volume isn't that high in the ARRL 160 compared to the bigger all bands tests. I have the NOT SKIMBUSTED filters running most of the time which eliminates most RBN busted spots, but in CQ WW CW I didn't realize the filter status had been reset, so did see a higher number of busted skimmer spots. Several of them were the bigger stations that most everyone had worked earlier and were pretty easily recognized as bust candidates. 73 John K3TN ARRL 160 _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: My new 9 Circle works great!
Here is additional information on the 9-circle low-band receiving array. It was originally designed for operation on both 160 and 80 meters. It was based on a couple articles I wrote for NCJ in the September/October and November/December issues in 2011. The design was turned into a set of electronics kits that were produced and sold by DX Engineering in collaboration with the Yankee Clipper Contest Club (YCCC) and myself. There were a few changes made in the DX Engineering implementation relative to the NCJ design, the most significant being a reduction in the circle diameter from 140 to 120 feet. This reduction had negligible effect on 160m but it improved the 80m performance and also allowed the array to produce "usable" performance on 40m. The DX Engineering kits eventually sold out and were discontinued after that. However, there are still a few direction switch box kits left over that you can order from DX Engineering: https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-yccc-switch. You can also download a copy of the system user's manual from DX Engineering: https://static.dxengineering.com/global/images/instructions/dxe-yccc-switch. pdf. The manual has a lot of technical information about the system, including circuit diagrams and beam pattern calculations, as well as assembly instructions for the DX Engineering kits. More recently, PI4CC has produced 9-circle PCB's that you learn about here: https://www.pi4cc.nl/tech-info/rx-array/. VE6WZ also created his own version of the PCB's and he will share the info with you, or he may chime in here. You can learn more about the VE6WZ system on his qrz.com page. Disclaimer: I have no commercial interest in or affiliation with any of the sources of electronics mentioned above. 73, John W1FV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+john.kaufmann=verizon@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Joe Sent: Monday, December 5, 2022 2:16 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: My new 9 Circle works great! Any links to this system? Joe WB9SBD On 12/4/2022 1:34 PM, Jim Miller wrote: > Thanks to Steve's, VE6WZ, excellent YouTube videos, I decided to tackle a > better RX antenna. I've been using a 2 element array phased by an NCC-2 > which is better than what I've had in the past (BOG, K9AY) but I wanted > better. > > After evaluating my space available and finding it too small I asked my > neighbor for seasonal use of their adjoining lot and they graciously > agreed! My N, NW and W elements are on their property. > > Steve's videos include KiCad files for the combiner and preamps and he was > very helpful by email with any of my questions. > > I just completed the array last night and got it on the air and I was > astonished by how well it worked. > > Of course it isn't going to create signals out of thin air but it is much > quieter due to better RDF and the front to back is very impressive. Strong > signals on the waterfall just disappear when the antenna is reversed! > > I'm very happy to get such an improved antenna for 80 and 160 in a 120ft > diameter circle! > > As a bonus I use it with PSTRotator and a USB controlled relay box so no > manual switch box is required on my desk. Just a mouse click selects the > desired direction or it can track my logger automatically. > > FYI, most of the cost is in the aluminum, the combiner and preamps were > pretty cheap to build. > > Many thanks to VE6WZ!! > > 73 > > jim ab3cv > _ > Searchable Archives:http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Dipole/remote tuner
You can significantly widen the SWR bandwidth that your radio sees on 80m by using a coax match. Connect your dipole to a 1/2 WL multiple of 50 ohm coax and then add a 1/4 WL section of 75 ohm coax. Of course this does not change the actual antenna's SWR but neither would a remote tuner. John KK9A Jake K9WN wrote: Looking for input from the collective knowledge of the reflector. You have a wire dipole for 75 meters fed with a 1:1/5K rated balun. You want to transition to a remote tuner so you can move around 75/80 meters. The question is: Do you leave the balun in place, or remove it and feed the dipole directly from the remote tuner? We have mixed answers from the local "Population". That's why I'm coming to the reflector. Please, don't be critical and ask questions like: what gauge wire, bare of covered wire, How high, yada yada yada, That's all. Thanks in advance. 73 K9WN Jake _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: squabbling over digig modes
While we squabble over digi modes taking over, there are more pressing issues on amateur radio such as increasing QRM, QRN levels. Perhaps we need to exert our energies into clearing the bands of these issues first. There are now many kiwi sdr recivers online which can triangulate stations pretty accurately and they can be named and shamed ! or even black listed. Another issue is the encroaching OTR. At least the digimoder's occupy the bands while we squabble to and fro. 73John -M0ELS Political New World Order language… is designed to make lies the new truth and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure windGeorge Orwell _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: QRM Eliminator
John VE6SY reviewed the QRM Eliminator @ http://play.fallows.ca/wp/series/x-phase-qrm-eliminator He also has reviews and comparisons of other RFI fighting products on his web site. Very helpful. John W2FV On Sun, Oct 9, 2022 at 9:43 AM Tree wrote: > Hey - nice find Jerry! > > Nice kit price - but getting the box is probably more convenient for most. > > I think the J310 is also what was used in the ANC-4. > > Tree N6TR > > On Sun, Oct 9, 2022 at 9:37 AM K4SAV wrote: > > > This link shows a schematic of this thing. (Assuming it's the same as > > the packaged version.) > > https://tinyurl.com/3pkvzdft > > > > Jerry, K4SAV > > > > On 10/9/2022 10:59 AM, Tree wrote: > > > Looks like there is a low cost version of the ANC-4 and MFJ-1026 type > of > > > noise eliminator available on Amazon of all places. > > > > > > Search for QRM Eliminator. Cost is around $60. > > > > > > These are useful if you have a single point noise source. I do not > have > > > one of these units but was "reading the mail" on someone talking about > it > > > on 40M SSB and they seemed to think it worked well. > > > > > > And he had a good point - if you don't like it - you can send it back > > for a > > > full refund! > > > > > > Tree N6TR > > > _ > > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > Reflector > > > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > Reflector > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Non-amateur stations in Europe on 1860 and 1900 kHz
> So how is the QRN doing over there now? Any likelihood of 160m activity from > the USA soon? > > Roger G3YRO The QRN on the East Coast is still fairly high most evenings, but there is propagation to Europe. OK1CF is on regularly and is usually Q5. Also a few G's have been heard recently with decent signals. 73, John W1FV _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: Non-amateur stations in Europe on 1860 and 1900 kHz
Some evenings I hear noise-like transmissions, approximately 3 kHz wide, around 1860 and 1900 kHz that appear to be originating in Europe. I presume they are not amateur signals. On European SDR's they are quite loud and operating continuously every day. I find they are actually useful as propagation indicators into Europe. They are usually audible when there are no European amateur signals (CW) to be heard. Do any of you folks in Europe know what these transmissions are? Transmitter location? Transmitter power? Antenna? 73, John W1FV _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Beverage upgrade question
Even in a quiet rural location, the limiting noise on 160 will be external atmospheric noise. Improving RDF will generally improve your signal/noise ratio against the atmospheric noise. There are exceptions when there is a source of high noise, like thunderstorms, in the same direction as the signals you are receiving. In that case, improving RDF may not help so much. I have a couple antennas whose RDF's differ by about 4 dB. That's a pretty significant difference. When I switch back and forth between the two with both antennas aimed at the direction of signal arrival, the improvement in S/N with the higher RDF antenna is very obvious to my ears, especially when the received signals are weak. From that I would surmise that even a 1 dB difference in RDF would be discernable when signals are weak, although the difference won't be dramatic. One thing to keep in mind is that increasing the RDF of an antenna system causes an unavoidable narrowing of the beam pattern. This means the RDF advantage is realized only in an increasingly narrow range of angles. This means that the S/N will drop off more sharply for signals off the peak of the antenna's main lobe. 73, John W1FV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+john.kaufmann=verizon@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Kenny Silverman Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2022 4:07 PM To: topband Subject: Topband: Beverage upgrade question In a rural area with no significant man made noise, if you redesign a beverage for better RDF when do you start to notice a difference? I’m considering upgrading my single EU beverage at 625’ (190m) to a pair in echelon where will each be 550’ (168m) with 20’ (6m) spacing . The increase in RDF is 0.8 dB - will it be noticeable? I realize if there’s noise in a direction where you reduce the energy you will better hear the difference , but my EU beverage is quiet. Though the F/B change will help with thunder storms off the back. Overall I tend to receive better than I transmit to EU. 73 , Kenny K2KW _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 8Q7WM Z-22 in VE6
I have a low dipole, about 10 feet high, that I use as an alternate receiving antenna on 160. My main receiving antenna is an 8-circle array of short verticals. The vertical array is almost always much better for DX, but once in a while the low dipole is better, sometimes dramatically so. The situations that favor the dipole are always the same: it's at my sunrise and for a period of time (15-20 minutes in duration) after sunrise. If there is any DX propagation at all, it usually fades rapidly right at sunrise when listening on the verticals. However, once in a while the DX comes up on the dipole as it drops down on the verticals. It has allowed me to work DX (VK, ZL, JA) after sunrise that would otherwise be very difficult or impossible to hear on the verticals. I guess the old adage still holds...you can never have too many antennas on 160 (as long as they don't interact destructively with each other). 73, John W1FV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+john.kaufmann=verizon@contesting.com] On Behalf Of VE6WZ_Steve Sent: Tuesday, March 1, 2022 11:01 AM To: Robin Cc: Topband Subject: Re: Topband: 8Q7WM Z-22 in VE6 Hi Robin… No I did not RX on anything but the Beverages and 9 C. However….who knows? Perhaps they might have been better if I had. This morning Kevin VK6LW was crazy strong, but it seems the 8Q7 boys diid not show up. Let's hope they keep trying that path before they leave. 73, de steve ve6wz > On Feb 28, 2022, at 10:56 PM, Robin wrote: > > Hi Steve > > Did you try a high angle receive antenna? Not so sure on this end, but when > we were working skew paths from XZ0A we simply had to have a cloud warmer > receive antenna in order to hear anything until a couple hours after local > dark. Went several days of near nothing until we put up a dipole at 15 feet, > then made something like 30 eastern NA Qs the first night we had that antenna. > > Almost all of the skew contacts we made were reported as arriving from > 210-240 for NA east of the Midwest.. > > This was during a solar high when the polar oval was strong, so nothing was > making it through that area. > > This condition was consistent for several weeks - all the time we were there. > > Quiet environment, diesel powered island hotel, several miles across water to > the typical noisy Asian town, and a lot of miles to a big city. > > TX antenna was a full size quarter wave groundplane. (180 ft antenna fed at > 50 ft with dozen radials), so it probably did have a modest high angle signal > - a big fat main lobe. > > to this day we have no idea if the RX arrival angle matched the TX departure > angle. The low dipole was not TX grade. > > Robin, WA6CDR > XZ0A > > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Relay bounce
Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows From: Wayne Kline<mailto:w...@hotmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 14:02 To: Steve London<mailto:n2ica...@gmail.com>; Topband<mailto:topband@contesting.com>@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Relay bounce Steve, I am not sure it is contact bounce. I look would at grounding or other issues that would conduct transients of the relay coils into the RF stream. John k9dx My frist thought is to clean the contacts ( there open frame relays) For changing the relays Direct replacement difficult . The Co that makes them produces them in limited runs for Amerirtron GL Wayne ,W3EA Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10 From: Steve London<mailto:n2ica...@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 1:05 PM To: Topband<mailto:topband@contesting.com> Subject: Topband: Relay bounce I am using an Ameritron RCS-4 antenna switch to select between beverage antennas. Recently, it has developed a bad case of relay bounce causing an S9 spike every time I switch between antennas. Any suggestions on how to improve this ? Since it's only used for RX antenna selection, I'm amenable to replacing the relays with something else, although I have had issues before with other relays due to no current going through the contacts. Thanks and 73, Steve, N2IC _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Antenna check for V31XX
LU8DPM may have a very good station however it is summer in Argentina so QRN is likely much higher than Belize. It is ~4000 miles south of Belize. I have spent a lot of winters in Aruba and it was not unusual to see and hear the lightning storms in South America. John KK9A (P40A) Jim Brown K9YC wrote: I had no problem hearing you, Bill, never heard V31MA. And LU8DPM is either seriously deaf or doesn't want to work US. 73, Jim K9YC _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: K9AY RX antenna
Hi Pete, Unless the K9AY system is located a long way away from the TX antenna (several wavelengths?), you are going to have to have to have the option to detune your TX antenna AT the feed point in order for that RX antenna to offer any sense of pattern. The level of noise coupling is shocking without detuning. I would not expect the K9AY to offer signals that are louder than the Inv. L out of the box but you should be able to hear them better and knocking down loud local signals is a big feature. Various K9AY systems have been good performers here on my suburban lot for 20+ years. But you have to detune the TX antenna on RX to work properly. 73! John, KB5NJD.. On 1/31/22, Pete Smith N4ZR wrote: > My K9AY loop (the commercial version from Array Solutions) seems to be > kind of an indifferent performer. I believe it is set up properly. and > I've laid down a radial under each side of the loops, but while it shows > some directivity on high-end broadcast stations, 160M directivity is > limited to nil, signal strengths are rarely better than my inverted-L, > and the adjusting the termination seems to make very little difference. > Any hints? > > -- > 73, Pete N4ZR > Check out the new Reverse Beacon Network > web server at<http://beta.reversebeacon.net>. > For spots, please use your favorite > "retail" DX cluster. > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: CQ160 CW - In Memory of Gene Walsh N2AA
What a great way to honor your team member. Your 160m team has been around longer than I thought, congratulations. A half century ago N2AA was one of the most recognizable contest callsigns. Good luck in the CQ 160m contest! John KK9A John Crovelli W2GD wrote: Our 160m CW Team has been operating together for over 35 years. Gene Walsh, N2AA was an original member of the team. This weekend, the Team will honor Gene's memory by using his call N2AA during the 2022 CQ160 CW (instead of W2GD). Station preparations are nearly complete - we are expecting a major winter snow/wind storm as the contest begins. Preparations for the storm are proceeding quickly today. As many of you know our station is located on the shoreline of Barnegat Bay about 20 miles north of Atlantic City, NJ. We expect a direct hit from this storm with as much as 50 cm of snow and high winds on the coast. Best of luck to all of you who join us this weekend in the most intensely competitive of all amateur radio contests. 73, John, W2GD/P40W/P44W for the 160m CW Team _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: CQ160 CW - In Memory of Gene Walsh N2AA
We NEVER give up. GD From: Felipe J. Hernández Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2022 12:59 PM To: John Crovelli Cc: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: CQ160 CW - In Memory of Gene Walsh N2AA Love the spirit! GL OMs!! El El jue, ene. 27, 2022 a la(s) 1:47 p.m., John Crovelli mailto:w...@hotmail.com>> escribió: Our 160m CW Team has been operating together for over 35 years. Gene Walsh, N2AA was an original member of the team. This weekend, the Team will honor Gene's memory by using his call N2AA during the 2022 CQ160 CW (instead of W2GD). Station preparations are nearly complete - we are expecting a major winter snow/wind storm as the contest begins. Preparations for the storm are proceeding quickly today. As many of you know our station is located on the shoreline of Barnegat Bay about 20 miles north of Atlantic City, NJ. We expect a direct hit from this storm with as much as 50 cm of snow and high winds on the coast. Best of luck to all of you who join us this weekend in the most intensely competitive of all amateur radio contests. 73, John, W2GD/P40W/P44W for the 160m CW Team _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: CQ160 CW - In Memory of Gene Walsh N2AA
Our 160m CW Team has been operating together for over 35 years. Gene Walsh, N2AA was an original member of the team. This weekend, the Team will honor Gene's memory by using his call N2AA during the 2022 CQ160 CW (instead of W2GD). Station preparations are nearly complete - we are expecting a major winter snow/wind storm as the contest begins. Preparations for the storm are proceeding quickly today. As many of you know our station is located on the shoreline of Barnegat Bay about 20 miles north of Atlantic City, NJ. We expect a direct hit from this storm with as much as 50 cm of snow and high winds on the coast. Best of luck to all of you who join us this weekend in the most intensely competitive of all amateur radio contests. 73, John, W2GD/P40W/P44W for the 160m CW Team _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: K9AY Loop Questions
I tried an AY loop decades ago, without the Array Solutions adjustable termination controller, and I do not remember it being that useful for RX. The antenna is ground dependant so perhaps it works better for some than others. Even a short Beverage may be a better choice. From my P40A station I used a Pennant with decent results. It was inexpensive to build and not ground dependant however it only covered one direction. The Array Solutions Shared Apex Loop Array has great reviews and may be worth considering, Pete. John KK9A Pete Smith N4ZR wrote: I recently installed a K9AY loop (with the Array Solutions controller), and have a couple of questions. Installation is pretty standard, with a fiberglass pole at the center, ground rod at its base, and on the ground radials under each direction of the loop. The antenna is directional, as demonstrated by tuning in broadcast stations at the high end of the AM band and separating stations on the same frequency so that I can hear one or the other. Atmospheric noise is 1-2 S units more on my inverted L than on the K9AY antenna, but signal strengths of stations in the favored direction of the loop seem about the same or a bit lower than the inverted L. The Termination adjustment is working, to judge by the switching transients, but seems to make little or no difference. How do these results compare with others' experience? I didn't expect a "magic bullet", but the K9AY loop seems a little bit underwhelming. -- 73, Pete N4ZR Check out the new Reverse Beacon Network web server at<http://beta.reversebeacon.net>. For spots, please use your favorite "retail" DX cluster. _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: More radials towards EU
EZNEC is correct. Adding more radials, even long ones, in a specific direction won't preferentially favor the direction in which the radials are added. It will help raise the overall efficiency of the antenna to a degree, depending on how many radials are already in place, but any improvement will be distributed uniformly over all directions. 73, John W1FV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+john.kaufmann=verizon@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Ignacy Misztal Sent: Friday, December 3, 2021 1:16 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: More radials towards EU My shunt fed tower has 36 radials 70 to 100 ft long. Would adding a few longer radials towards EU help to EU? Eznec says no. Ignacy NO9E _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Feedline Choke Placement in RX systems
In the case of the YCCC 9-circle array, which I designed, common mode suppression is deployed at both the antenna ends of the feedlines and at the combiner where the antenna feedlines come together. The YCCC feedpoint preamp already includes common mode suppression, so additional feedline chokes should not be necessary there. The reason for additional common mode suppression at the combiner is as follows. The 9-circle system is different than other receiving arrays in that there is a center element which is usually collocated with the phase combiner because that is a convenient place to install the combiner. However, the convergence of all the feedlines at the combiner, very close to the center element, can create severe feedline-induced pattern distortion unless common mode suppression is deployed at the ends of each of the feedlines where they enter the combiner. This is because the outsides of the coax feedline shields form what looks like a field of wires that intersect near the center of the array, much like a radial system. The pattern distortion is created by common mode currents on the feedlines coupling to the center element, even though there is no direct electrical connection to the center element. I never gave consideration to this effect until I deployed my first prototype system in the field and discovered the pattern of the array was not very good despite VNA measurements on the combiner and preamps that showed accurate gain and phase. I eventually discovered through antenna modelling that strong coupling exists between the feedline shields and the center element. The addition of the feedline chokes at the combiner effectively breaks the electrical path for current flow on the outside of the shields of the feedlines where they intersect at the combiner. This almost completely eliminates the pattern distortion. Once I deployed the feedline chokes, the pattern cleaned up dramatically, just as the modelling predicted. The YCCC combiner does not incorporate the common mode suppression internally. This is best done on the feedlines themselves, installing feedline chokes a few feet away from the combiner. 73, John W1FV From: Dennis W0JX [mailto:w...@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2021 12:48 PM To: topband@contesting.com; John Kaufmann Subject: Feedline Choke Placement in RX systems K9YC made an interesting comment in his post, saying that the feedline chokes would be most effective if placed at the antenna end of the feedline. W1FV's 9 circle YCCC array has them right at the controller. The older K7TJR combiner utilized no feedline chokes. However, I believe that Lee's new design has built in common mode protection on the combiner circuit board. So what is the best way? Is placement dependent upon the combiner design? BTW, K3LR is using 2.4 in #31 toroids with at least 24 turns of RG-179 as feedline chokes in his 8 circle HiZ array and I believe that there are chokes on both ends of the antenna feedlines. Of course, K3LR operates in a high intensity, multi-transmitter environment and may need all that choking. 73 Dennis W0JX _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: W1FV 9-Circle Feedline & control Line Chokes?
You can make a feedline choke with snap-on ferrites as follows: wind 4 turns of the feedline through 5 snap-on cores of Fair-Rite part #0431176451. The core has an inner diameter of about 3/4 inch and 4 turns of RG-6 is the limit of what will fit in the core. However, using 5 cores will provide a large total choking impedance (~10 kohm) on 160. A larger core will accept more turns but at significantly more cost for the cores. The advantage of making chokes with RG-179 wound through smaller cylindrical cores is the much lower cost, although it's a bit more work to make these chokes. 73, John W1FV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+john.kaufmann=verizon@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Rich Dailey Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 8:14 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: W1FV 9-Circle Feedline & control Line Chokes? Homebrewing a 9-circle vertical array, and I'm looking for opinions from other 9-circle users on what chokes you're using on the feedlines (rg-6) at the switch box, and on the control line. I can go the binocular core route with rg-174, as per W1FV's article, but would prefer the simplicity of several turns through a snap-on choke. tnx! 73 de Rich, N8UX _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: Test G4eim
Hi guys been a bit qrt just testing this to see if still in system .will qrv 160m this next morning 73 de John G4eim Sent from my iPhone _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Interesting observation and comment (Skewed Path Vs. Horizontal/Vertical Polarization)
On 160 and 80, I have an 8-circle vertical receiving array. On very long paths, it is not uncommon to see skewing. The most common example is the path to JA, where the direct path heading should be about 330 degrees from my QTH in New England. However, for the last couple winter seasons, when the path has been open, it has almost always been skewed to the west or west northwest. It has been quite rare to have a true direct path to JA on either 160 or 80 from here. Because my array is strictly vertically polarized with no horizontal component, the skewing appears to be occurring in the vertical polarization dimension. I don't have a directional horizontal antenna to compare here. Coinciding with this skewing to JA has been the almost complete absence of a true northerly path over the pole into Asia, primarily zone 18. In other solar cycles, the over-the-pole path has opened for at least one or two seasons at the bottom of the cycle, but not this most recent cycle. I might suspect there is some local source of skewing at my QTH that is deflecting signals from the direct path heading, yet from time to time my array does receive DX signals over the true short path to the northwest. In particular, KL7's are sometimes received from the correct NNW heading on 160 and 80. For that reason, I tend to discount the possibility of locally generated skewing. 73, John W1FV _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: Vertical Dipoles on 160 Meters
For those who have limited space and are unable to lay out an effective ground system, the vertical dipole offers a very worthwhile alternative to an Inverted-L or low Inverted-V. It is relatively easy to build, install, and tune. The K2KQ article has been followed by hundreds with success. Vertical dipoles on 160 meters have been in place at P40W and P40L for a decade or more. Small footprint, vertical polarization and no ground system were the design parameters that prevailed. 73, John W2GD/P40W/P44W _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Portable Flag follow up (DX Engineering preamp noise figure update)
I have the DX Engineering preamp that I use with the DX Engineering portable flag and can confirm the 4.5 dB noise figure. Using the methods I described here in an earlier post, I measured the noise figure as between 4 to 5 dB. Also I measured the gain (S21) from 0.1 to 30 MHz with my VNA-2180. It comes out to be 32 dB at 1.8 MHz. Overall the gain response is essentially the same as what WD8DSB measured on a prototype of the preamp and reported on his Web page (https://sites.google.com/site/portableflagantenna/). There is a broad dip in gain of about 1 dB in the middle of the HF range, but it's inconsequential. Finally I measured the input impedance (S11) of the DX Engineering preamp. It varies a bit with frequency but when reported as SWR relative to 50 ohms, it ranges between 1.2:1 and 1.5:1 over the HF range. It will be a fine match for the flag which has a 50 ohm feedpoint impedance. Overall I think these are very good numbers for a relatively inexpensive preamp that is portable and battery powered. (Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with or commercial interest in DX Engineering). 73, John W1FV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+john.kaufmann=verizon@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Don Kirk Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2021 6:22 PM To: topband Subject: Re: Topband: Portable Flag follow up (DX Engineering preamp noise figure update) I should have said the so the 4.5 dB noise figure is certainly not unreasonable. Sorry for the typo. 73, Don (wd8dsb) On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 6:20 PM Don Kirk wrote: > A couple of weeks ago there were a lot of postings about my portable flag > for radio direction finding (for tracking down RFI), and someone asked > about the DX Engineering preamp that was designed for use with my portable > flag and specifically what the noise figure was for this preamp. Tim > (K3LR) said DX Engineering would measure it, and today he reported it > measured 4.5 dB. > > Tim mentioned that there were trade offs in the design such as low current > draw and high gain, so the 4.5 dB noise figure is certainly unreasonable. > It really is the only preamp I now use with my portable flag, and very > pleased with how it works. > > Just FYI, > Don (wd8dsb) > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: CQ Zones
Yes I have been on FT8. I simply do not enjoy FT8. I was first licensed in 1959 and am basically a CW OPERATOR. I well remember when AM operators bashed the SSB operators. 73, John, W4NU Sent from my iPhone > On Mar 9, 2021, at 11:36 AM, Lloyd - N9LB wrote: > > Will someone please start an "I Hate FT8" group and move all this > unproductive chatter off of the Top Band reflector. > > > > -Original Message- > From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+lloydberg=tds@contesting.com] On > Behalf Of ok1tn > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2021 10:05 AM > To: Chortek, Robert L. > Cc: topband@contesting.com; Joe Subich, W4TV > Subject: Re: Topband: CQ Zones > > FT4 FT8 is just a computer game. It's not a ham radio OK1TN > -- > 73 Slavek Zeler > > > -- Původní e-mail -- > Od: Chortek, Robert L. > Komu: Joe Subich, W4TV > Datum: 9. 3. 2021 16:31:21 > Předmět: Re: Topband: CQ Zones > "THANK YOU JOE! That pretty much captures the debate. > > 73, > > Bob/AA6VB > Robert L. Chortek > >> On Mar 9, 2021, at 7:27 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: >> >> [External Email] >> >> Oh PLEASE! You sound just like AM phone operators when SSB came >> along. And spark operators when CW started to replace it. >> >> The first DX was nothing more than single letters ... >> >> 73, >> >> ... Joe, W4TV >> >> >>>> On 2021-03-09 10:10 AM, Karel Matousek wrote: >>> I agree wit Martin OK1RR. >>> >>> I cannot endorse FT4, FT8 for the ARRL DXCC Program. >>> >>> IMHO, this should NEVER be allowed unless qualified in a separate rules >>> category! >>> >>> Karel OK1CF >>> __ >>>> Od: "Martin Kratoska" >>>> Komu: topband@contesting.com >>>> Datum: 09.03.2021 15:37 >>>> Předmět: Re: Topband: CQ Zones >>>> >>> Oh, FT8 should be proclaimed as illegal for DXCC (WAZ, WAS etc.) in >>> mixed categories. >>> This "mode" should be counted completely separated from traditional >>> modes like CW or SSB. >>> >>> 73, >>> Martin, OK1RR >>> >>> >>> Dne 09. 03. 21 v 15:16 Ian Fugler napsal(a): >>>> Hi, Dave >>>> >>>> Zone 23 - JT5DX will be your man. He is active in contests and puts >>> out a good signal. >>>> >>>> Zone 24 - will be more of a challenge. I have worked XX9D and a >>> couple of BY stations. But you may need to use FT8 for the BY stations, >>> since they seem strongly to prefer that mode. >>>> >>>> 73 and GL! >>>> >>>> Ian G4iiY >>>> >> >> >> _ >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector > " > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: Antenna thoughts
Hello all.I currently have a coaxial inv. L.apex at 50ft and rest going out at abt 45 degrees.The end is abt 20-30 ft high.It has been a very good antenna.I used a l because I did not have the option of 2 masts.I am changing a bit.Doing away from vhf/uhf beams.So I have another 50 ft mast.They are abt 200ft apart.My question is…Would a tee type vertical be better that an L.Yes I could elevate 2 or 3 radials.I am using a radial ground on the inv.L.Thoughts on this please.I am not really concerned about matching.Just effenciency.Is a tee better? Thanks,john Sent from Mail for Windows 10 -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Broad band antenna approach for 160 Contesting
I have been using a shunt fed 45G tower for many years with around 50 radials. It is top loaded with a mono stack from 80 to 10 meters. It works extremely well on 160 using an Omega match. There is a 1000 pfd vacuum variable in series with a motor driven 1000 pfd vacuum variable to ground. The motor is a reversible 1 RPM, 12 VDC motor that is tuned remotely from the shack. The SWR is always 1.3/1 or better. The tower is 100 feet high. I can usually work anything I can hear. The receiving antennas are a Hi-Z 8, Hi-Z 2, NW BOG, and a Waller FLAG on a 40 ft boom at 93 feet. The FLAG shines on the long path. 73, John, W4NU K4JAG (1959 to 1998) Atlanta Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 28, 2021, at 10:41 AM, Grant Saviers wrote: > > The nice thing about switched serial caps (if same values) for tuning > upwards from a low resonance is the voltages are all the same. Plus caps and > appropriate relays are cheap, easy, and small. > > Rick, I think you might have suggested this to me, and my implementation was > published in QEX May/June 2019. > > Grant KZ1W > >> On 2/28/2021 07:10, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote: >>> On 2/27/2021 2:23 PM, Artek Manuals wrote: >>> Rick et all >>> >> he feed, The taps are relay selected . Taps selected for a dip >>> at 1816, 1840 , 1860, 1880, 1900 and 1920. SWR 1.3:1 from 1.8 to 19.5 which >>> the my KPA1500 and Alpha 9500 both love. >>> >>> Dave >>> NR1DX >>> manu...@artekmanuals.com >>> >> Thanks for posting this suggestion. Perfectly reasonable design. >> I use an alternative design using switched mica capacitors. >> I also use a 2.25:1 matching transformer, but the "windings" >> are implemented using coax. Not sure if Sevick does this. >> 73 >> Rick N6RK >> _ >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Usable size of Flag antenna and FSM
Great information JC! I finally got my Hi-Z 8 up and running again after many problems. It was and still is a great antenna for RX. I am now using the upgraded preamp at the output of the array as designed by K7TJR. In addition I have one of your Waller Flags on a 40 foot boom at about 95 feet. It was pulled down last weekend so a new TIC Ring Rotor could be installed in place of the old one. Two broken fiberglass loops have been replaced. It goes back up tomorrow, 27 February. I think this one was #2 or #3 as I recall. Your 40 dB pre-amp really works great. It’s amazing what you can hear when polarization is horizontal. It also excels on the Long Path. 73, John, W4NU K4JAG (1959 to 1998) Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 26, 2021, at 4:44 PM, Don Kirk wrote: > > Hi JC, > > Thanks for posting all the great info. > > In my article I mentioned I normally use 20 dB of gain with my portable > flag, but on 80 and 160 I sometimes use more gain. I just double checked, > and sure enough I really do need more than 20 dB of gain on 160 meters when > using my DX-440 receiver on weaker signals I just did a rough test on my > DX-440, and it's sensitivity at 1.8 MHz is considerably lower than it is at > 4 MHz as an example. I can just start hearing signals at 1.8 MHz that are > around -120 dBm (at 4 MHz it's more like -137 dBm), and I think this > explains why more than 20 dB is useful in my application down on 160 > meters. If we assume a 500 Hz wide filter, and thermal noise temperature > of 300 deg K, then I believe the thermal noise generates a -146.84 dBm > signal to the receivers input. If we then amplify that signal by 20 dB we > wind up at -126.84 dBm which is still a little below the level I can detect > with my receiver at 1.8 MHz. Tom W8JI mentioned a long time ago that more > than 20 dB should not be normally required with negative gain antennas > unless the receivers sensitivity is low, and that appears to be the case in > my situation (he actually said "40 dB gain in front of a receiver is pure > fantasy, unless the receiver is dead as a door nail". Therefore having 30 > dB of gain does indeed come in handy in my application whereas it should > not be necessary if I were using a receiver with better sensitivity (unless > I'm looking at this all wrong). I'm glad I have the available extra gain > that the DX Engineering preamp offers whereas most receivers would not > benefit from it. > > I hope this makes sense to everyone. > > 73, > Don (wd8dsb) > >> On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 12:58 PM wrote: >> >> >> >> I would like to share some of my experience with small flags'. >> >> >> >> The directivity is the same for a large chance in frequency but the gain >> increase with size. >> >> >> >> As a reference NX4D started with a single flag 14' high 7' wide , using a >> 20 db gain preamp. Is was good enough to work 150 >> >> countries on 160m, for 80m you can reduce the size by 1/2 and expect the >> same results. Basically it is a flag like k9AY, EWE, pennant and others >> >> loaded loop, one resistor and one transformer. >> >> >> >> The RDF is a limitation and Doug phased two loops 14x7 spaced 16ft for a >> >> total boom of 30FT. all fiberglass, and an isolated mast from the tower >> and, >> >> not portable, I called small Waller Flag. The two 14x7 flag was good >> enough >> >> to work over 200 countries from a 1/5 acre lot in a subdivision with a >> lot of >> >> noise form neighbors. Detuning the TX antenna was a must for good >> >> performance, including working JT1CO direct path over the North pole on >> >> 160m. >> >> >> >> But the gain of the antenna was a limitation on 160m, and he built a >> Monster >> >> WF to work 311 DXCC on 160. >> >> >> >> 2 db NF and 20 db gain is all you need for a vertical flag or dual flag >> like the WF(Waller Flag, from Doug Waller, NX4D) >> >> >> >> 33db gain is too much for a flag or WF vertical, it is good for a flag or >> a >> >> WF horizontal, and at least 75 ft above ground. >> >> >> >> Here is important to remember if you S meter is moving you have too much >> >> gain, I match my preamp gain for s0 on band noise during the day. There is >> a >> >> lot of signals bellow S0. Keep the gain at minimum. >> >> >> >> To reduce common mode noise a twisted pair 100ohms feed like helps a lot. >> >> >> >> Measure noise figure at 1.8 MHz is a gre
Re: Topband: FW: The WD8DSB mini-flag antenna (LONG!)
I think there may be some semantic confusion over the term "averaging" and how averaging affects noise when making spectral measurements, so let me clarify what I mean. My comments are specific to the P3 but are fairly general. The P3 has an AVERAGE function. It allows you to perform averaging of video traces over time intervals between about 50 milliseconds and 1 second. If I am trying to measure the dBm value of random noise, the trace looks somewhat ragged at the lowest averaging times. The trace on the display will bounce up and down several dB. I want the average value of the trace because that's what gives me the noise spectral level. I can do some visual averaging of the ragged trace to obtain the average. However, enabling longer averaging times in the P3 makes this easier because it reduces the jaggedness and the trace converges to a pretty smooth one. However, the smooth trace has exactly the same *average* value as the jagged trace. Anyone who has a P3 can demonstrate this to themselves. So, when I say the averaging hasn't reduced the noise level, it's the average level of the noise that hasn't changed. On the other hand, if I really want to make a weak narrowband signal stick out of the noise, then I will reduce the noise bandwidth of the spectrum measurement. The narrower bandwidth will filter out more noise in the RF (not video) domain. In the P3 you do this by reducing the frequency span. With the P3 you can vary the frequency span between 200 kHz and 2 kHz. Because the noise bandwidth is approximately span/450 in the P3, a 2 kHz span, for example, should give a factor of 10 (or 10 dB) reduction in average noise compared to a span of 20 kHz. When dealing with narrowband coherent signals, this can really make very weak signals become visible on the display when they are virtually invisible in a larger measurement bandwidth. I hope this clears up any confusion. 73, John W1FV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+john.kaufmann=verizon@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2021 10:39 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: FW: The WD8DSB mini-flag antenna (LONG!) On 2/25/2021 5:16 PM, John Kaufmann via Topband wrote: > The P3 averages power, not amplitude, so using longer averaging times just > smooths the display and doesn't reduce random noise. It has nothing to do with power. Last I looked, the P3 is reading and displaying the instantaneous voltage in the IF, and can be calibrated to voltage at the input. I've been doing swept measurements of complex quantities for nearly 40 years, first at audio frequencies and now at RF. Averaging DOES cause random contents of a bin to approach zero (or the noise floor), making correlated signals stand out. This has long been well understood. I the principle to measure the dynamic response of broadcast signal processing in a peer-reviewed paper to the Audio Engineering Society in 1986. The test signal was a swept sine embedded deep in musical program material to the point that it was barely audible to a trained listener, and detected by a synchronized swept narrowband detector. Because the swept excitation and swept detector are synchronized, the measurement produces the complex response of the system, and program material, being non-coherent, averages out. http://k9yc.com/AESPaper-TDS.pdf 73, Jim K9YC _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: FW: The WD8DSB mini-flag antenna (LONG!)
The P3 averages power, not amplitude, so using longer averaging times just smooths the display and doesn't reduce random noise. John W1FV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+john.kaufmann=verizon@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2021 8:03 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: FW: The WD8DSB mini-flag antenna (LONG!) On 2/25/2021 2:29 PM, John Kaufmann via Topband wrote: > The P3 noise measurement bandwidth was about 100 Hz in my measurements. I hope that everyone realizes that setting a high value for averaging cancels non-correlated noise in spectrum displays, including the waterfall, greatly increasing the visibility of correlated signals and noise. Correlated can be understood as non-random, and includes nearly all ham transmission modes and most electronically generated noise like computer clocks, trash from electronic power handling and switch-mode power supplies. 73, Jim K9YC _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: FW: The WD8DSB mini-flag antenna (LONG!)
The P3 noise measurement bandwidth was about 100 Hz in my measurements. Quoting from the P3 user's manual, "the effective bandwidth of the P3 is generally one display pixel, which is approximately span / 450. I used a span of 50 kHz, so it comes out to 111 Hz. Because the relationship is only approximate, I round it to 100 Hz in my calculations, which is good enough for my purposes. To obtain the noise density in a 1 Hz bandwidth, you just subtract 20 dB (a factor of 100 for the difference in bandwidth) from the measured noise level in the P3. 73, John W1FV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+john.kaufmann=verizon@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Lee STRAHAN Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2021 4:46 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: FW: The WD8DSB mini-flag antenna (LONG!) Hi John, What did you use as the P3 bandwidth for your noise measurement? And conversion to 1Hz equivalent. The P3 has its own bandwidth and is not affected by setting the receiver bandwidth. Lee K7TJR OR (Note: what follows is a long, technical discussion about noise and “small” antennas. I invoke some math and physics here, so if you are not comfortable with it, feel free to disregard or delete this e-mail. I went through this exercise to help teach myself the limits here and maybe others might find it helpful or educational as well.) _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: The WD8DSB mini-flag antenna (LONG!)
main lobe. This calculation assumes the atmospheric noise has a uniform distribution over all of space, which is probably not exactly true but we’ll make that assumption to get a ballpark result. Note that an ideal lossless antenna would have an average gain of exactly 0 dBi, which, by definition, is the gain of an isoptropic radiator. That results falls out from the concept of antenna gain averaged over all of space. One caveat: the assumption of uniformly distributed noise is definitely not true for local man-made noise, which comes from specific directions and propagates via groundwave at essentially zero elevation angle. The EZNEC average gain calculation uses a far-field antenna gain pattern and does not take groundwave into account. Next I created an EZNEC model of the DXE mini-flag and found it has an average gain of about -72 dBi on 1.8 MHz. Because this is 65 dB lower than the average gain of my transmit vertical, the mini-flag should theoretically deliver 65 dB less atmospheric noise, or -185 dBm/Hz, to the receiver. I make no claim these are super-accurate numbers but it’s the best I can come up with, at least at my location. It does give an idea of the magnitude of the problem we’re dealing with when it comes to noise limits. Because I already calculated/measured the thermal noise floor of my system as -171 dBm/Hz, the atmospheric noise floor level from the mini-flag at my QTH will be about 14 dB below thermal noise. That means the atmospheric noise will be swamped by thermal noise in my electronics and not vice versa. The higher atmospheric noise at night will be somewhat closer to thermal noise but probably not enough to change the conclusion here. Thermal noise will limit one’s ability to hear very weak signals with this antenna. This might be improved marginally with a preamp with a lower noise figure but 2.3 dB is already getting close to the limits of what can be achieved practically. More preamp gain, without an improvement in noise figure, will not improve weak signal reception. This finding confirms what others have stated about very low gain receiving antennas being limited by thermal noise. If you have an antenna with a different gain than the mini-flag, you can substitute its average gain into the calculation I just did. EZNEC says the gain of the mini-flag increases about 10 dB for each doubling in frequency above 1.8 MHz. This means you start to have a chance of beating the thermal noise limit with this antenna at higher frequencies, maybe 7 MHz or above, depending on the ambient external noise environment. For direction-finding purposes, you generally don’t need the ultimate in low-noise reception. You only need the DF antenna to be good enough to hear the signal or interfering noise source well above whatever noise is in your receiver. For this purpose, the WD8DSB mini-flag should work great in most situations. I welcome any comments about this analysis and these results. 73, John W1FV From: Don Kirk [mailto:wd8...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2021 3:33 PM To: john.kaufm...@verizon.net Cc: TopBand List Subject: Re: Topband: The WD8DSB mini-flag antenna Hi John, You started this mess (or maybe I did), and finally here is my response to a few of the questions you had and thanks so much for waiting in line for my response. 1) As I have mentioned in a few other responses I suspect having the short 10 foot feedline helps to negate common mode noise and direct signal ingress into the feedline that often haunts us. I do have one recommendation about pattern distortion as follows. Check to make sure the peak and the null of the antenna are in agreement on the signal you are direction finding. If you notice a slight skew (where they don't agree with each other), then move away from existing objects and this will correct that problem. I sometimes notice a slight skew when in my backyard near my house (looks like the null shifts slightly from where it should be), and when I get out away from my house (I move to the sidewalk in front of my house) the slight pattern skew goes away. 2) I don't know what the DX Engineering preamp noise figure is, and there definitely is no expectation from the designers standpoint that it's spectacular. Even though I did most of the field testing of this preamp I have no idea what the amplifier part of the circuit is as DX Engineering tightly controls their designs. 3) My antenna does not have a long mast, and it easily fits in the back seat of my very small 1996 Saturn Station Wagon. It fits widthwise in my backseat, and I have to imagine it will do the same in almost any car since my car is about as small as they come. Looks like the DX Engineering version of my antenna has a longer mast, and that can easily be shortened if it helps you fit the antenna into other areas of your vehicle. I only use
Re: Topband: The WD8DSB mini-flag antenna
As a follow-up to my original post, here are a few additional comments. Don, you mention that you designed the mini-flag for a deep null off the back at low elevation angles, which is entirely understandable. As I said in my earlier post, the null is very pronounced in the AM BCB on local groundwave signals. However, I also see pretty significant nulls on higher-angle signals, too. Just a short time ago, I was listening to W1AW on the low end of 160. They are located only ~100 miles from me. Their signal has to be arriving at a pretty high angle, but the null is still quite pronounced. My homebrew preamp, that I mentioned in my post, uses a cascade of UTO 511 and UTO 533 mini-amplifier modules. I used this preamp, not necessarily because it's optimal, but because I already happened to have it on hand. The gain of the 511 is given as 16 dB typical while the 533 is 17 dB, which should yield a net gain of ~33 dB for the cascade of the two. The noise figure on the 511 that serves as the input amplifier is specified as 2.3 dB, but its spec sheet gives an operational frequency range of 5-500 MHz, so I can't be sure the noise figure (or the gain) holds up at lower frequencies. Nonetheless I can hear the ambient noise in my receiver increase on 160m when I connect the mini-flag to the preamp, which suggests the noise figure for this preamp is at least adequate at my location. I use a Yaesu FT-817ND "backpack" radio as a portable radio with this antenna. In EZNEC I calculate the RDF of this mini-flag as 7.4 dB on 160m at a 20 degree elevation angle. That's essentially the same as the K9AY loop or other similar pennant/flag antennas. For use as a receiving antenna, the important thing is the noise figure of the preamp. The DX Engineering Web site does not give the noise figure of their preamp. Don, perhaps you know? The other thing that might degrade the antenna is common-mode signal pickup, which can be a problem for very low gain antennas where you are working with very small signals. However, based on what I observe in terms of antenna pattern for this mini-flag, I can't say that I see any pattern effects that might be attributable to common mode degradation. Don, maybe you can comment here as well on this aspect of the antenna. As I also mentioned in my earlier post, the dimensions of the DXE implementation are somewhat smaller than what's given in the QST article. For me, that works out well because the width of the DXE mini-flag just manages to fit inside the trunk of my mid-size sedan. A wider flag would not fit. 73, John W1FV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+john.kaufmann=verizon@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Don Kirk Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 5:22 PM To: wb6r...@mac.com Cc: Top Band List List Subject: Re: Topband: The WD8DSB mini-flag antenna HI Steve, Thanks for the nice implementation comment. The portable flag front to back ratio is highly related to the elevation angle and frequency of operation (just like any terminated loop), and therefore I did not want to overstate the front to back ratio in my portable flag article. I designed the portable flag for direction finding local RFI (ground wave based signals) and therefore made sure I selected an appropriate termination resistor to provide a very deep null at low elevation angles on 160, 80 and 40 meters where I often deal with RFI (the portable flag has a very high front to back ratio at low elevation angles), and because of this it also has exceptional front to back ratio at low elevation angles down in the AM Broadcast Band. Very small flags have just as good front to back ratio and RDF as a full size flag as long as the appropriate termination resistor is used. The problem is when the flag becomes too large for the frequency of operation which causes the directional properties to degrade. You can see some front to back ratio vs. elevation plots for my portable flag on my simple portable flag website and here is the URL to that site: https://sites.google.com/site/portableflagantenna/home Problem with very small flags is that the noise figure of the preamp becomes a critical parameter, and because of this I don't recommend attenuators be placed before the preamp as this causes degradation in the signal to noise ratio. I stumbled upon this issue when doing field tests on one of the DX Engineering prototype preamps, and had them change the design so the attenuators now come after the actual amplifier stage which solved the problem. Everything I said above about the performance of very small terminated loops assumes no interaction with surrounding objects, and ignores issues related with feedlines since the feedline is very short on the portable flag. P.S. I make no money from DX Engineering as I agreed to not be paid in order to keep the price of the portable flag as low as possible. 73, Don (wd8dsb) _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.co
Topband: The WD8DSB mini-flag antenna
Some of you may have seen the article by WD8DSB in the latest issue of QST. I believe WD8DSB is on this reflector. His article describes a mini-flag antenna that can be used for direction-finding. The neat thing about this antenna, besides its compact size, is that it is unidirectional and is very broadband. It works from the AM BCB through 10m. It produces a sharp null off the back which allows you to determine signal direction without the direction ambiguity you get with a conventional unterminated loop. DX Engineering is producing this antenna as a kit, along with a companion preamp. (Disclaimer: I have no affiliation or commercial interest in DX Engineering). See: https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-noiseloop. I just bought the flag kit last week and finished assembling it this past weekend. I see today that the kit is now back-ordered until April so it was good that I ordered it as soon as I saw the QST article. It took me about 3 hours to assemble the mini-flag even though the DXE Web site says it can be done in 1-2 hours. There is a bit of fussy mechanical assembly involved in getting the symmetry and dimensions just right, although it's not hard work. The flag is 42 inches wide and 21 inches tall. The DXE version of the antenna has slightly smaller dimensions than those given in the QST article, which results in a small reduction in gain, which doesn't really matter, but the pattern is the same. I did some testing of the mini-flag in the AM BCB. The gain is very low--about -65 dBi on 160m--so it needs a good preamp. I used a homebrew preamp made up of a couple of MMIC's that produce about 35 dB of gain. The DXE preamp for this antenna won't be available until April. On the higher frequencies, less preamp gain is needed because the gain of the mini-flag increases with frequency. My initial tests indicate this antenna clearly works. By rotating the flag for the deepest null, I could nail the heading an AM BCB station to a few degrees. This antenna could also be used as directional receiving antenna on its own. Although it is not hugely directive, it can be rotated easily to peak or null signals or noise, and it is better than a conventional unterminated loop. It has essentially the same RDF as other larger flag or pennant antennas but is obviously far more compact. This is a nice contribution by WD8DSB. Now I have to go off with the mini-flag and chase some local noise sources that have been plaguing me this winter on the low bands. 73, John W1FV _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: UA9BA Spitfire antenna
This antenna was clearly working well at UA2FW in the recent CQ 160 contest. When I listened on the band, UA2FW was, by far, the strongest signal coming out of Europe in mediocre conditions. Normally northern Europe, including UA2, is at a disadvantage in terms of propagation to the US. Also, UA2FW has the highest claimed multi-op score in the CQ 160 contest, so it's a remarkable achievement. 73, John W1FV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+john.kaufmann=verizon@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Alexander Teimurazov Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2021 10:44 AM To: 'TopBand List' Subject: Topband: UA9BA Spitfire antenna https://dxnews.com/ua9ba-spitfire-160m/ 73 Al 4L5A _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: RG6 recommendations
Hi Charlie, What you see in your TDR sweep of the RG6 is absolutely normal. I've seen exactly the same thing. The rise in apparent impedance with distance is caused by the loss in the cable. If you had a lower loss cable, the TDR trace would be flatter. As long as you don't seen any significant bumps or dips, your cable run is fine. For use with Beverage antennas, the loss in the RG6 is inconsequential unless maybe you have an extremely long run of cable (thousands of feet). 73, John W1FV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+john.kaufmann=verizon@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Charles Stackhouse via Topband Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2021 8:33 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: RG6 recommendations After a period of inactivity, I set out to get my station going again. The Beverages were not working with very low signal levels and I replaced 600 foot RG6 feedline from shack to Beverage switch in the woods with new RG6 which still had the plastic wrap around the spool. I was surprised when things were no better. The "new" coax is not right. The TDR sweeps show a straight line increase in impedance from 78 ohms to 95 ohms. There are no impedance "bumps" seen. The 400 feet left on the spool do the same thing as does 800 feet of the same stuff bought at the same time. This stuff was bought on Ebay and is gel-flooded RG6 labelled "Commscope Inc. GA390709 and GA3907022." I bought it in Sept 2014 and it has been stored ever since in a dry heated basement. Using an oscilloscope as a TDR I see that the impedance line is not level as with good coax but slopes upward at an angle. I also checked by placing a 330 ohm resistor at the end of the cable and ran an SWR trace from 1-8 MHz with the SWR only 2-2.5. Why is this cable so lossy? Was it bad to begin with or did it deteriorate in 7 years? What recommendations for good RG6 can anyone make. There has been lots of critter chewing upon cables in the past so I guess gel-flooded cable would be preferable. Should I spend $230 for DXEngineerings good stuff or can I get by cheaper? p.s. I went out and checked each Beverage at the switchbox today and 4 out of 6 were great. Only 3" of snow and temp was about 25 deg F. I was able to keep the snow and dielectric grease off of my laptop. 73, Charlie W2GN _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Titanex V80E tuner
Don’t know which atu this is. From their webpage. Sent from my iPhone > On 5 Jan 2021, at 21:30, Steve wrote: > > Does anyone have any pictures to share of a Titanex V80E tuner (2kw) model. > There are two coils that run the length of the enclosure, one in the > enclosure and one in the top. > Many thanks, > Steve AA4V > 843-834-1616 > > > Sent from my I-Phone > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Low Dipoles
I am all for multiple receiving antennas for 160.. I have: 1) Hi-Z 8 down by the creek. 2) Hi-Z 2 up on the hill. 3) BOG to NW going down the hill. 4) Waller FLAG on 40 foot boon (2 loops) at 95 feet on a TIC Ring Rotor. The Waller FLAG appears to outperform all of the others (especially when the polarization is horizontal). It works well on the long path. It was #2 from N4IS. 100 ohm Twin-Ax to tower base. Then 100 ohm to 50 ohm transformer with Times Microwave LMR-600 to shack. 73, John, W4NU On 12/14/2020 8:31 AM, Bill Tippett wrote: W3LPL wrote: "I've never found them to be more effective receiving antennas than Beverages or arrays of short verticals at sunset or at any time during the night" I have a inverted-V with apex at 100' and ends at 30' that I specifically put up for high angle conditions. I also have a quasi-4SQ Tx antenna about 300' away. The Eznec plot below shows the breakeven TOA is around 45 degrees. I usually see +10 dB in favor of the 4SQ which you can see on the plot happens at TOAs below 15 degrees. https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipM_OgfeUmNPr7fPJL2YApvxE5HaQbajJDfYlD-M Most (>99%) of the time what Frank says is true. However there are rare occasions when the inv-V is stronger than the 4SQ indicating high angles. Normally I receive on Beverages and TX on the 4SQ but the tipoff to check for high angles is when Beverages lose directivity. When this happens it indicates high angles, so I then switch to both TX/RX on the inv-V. For me this most often occurs just after sunset and only lasts 30 minutes or so. However in contests I've had significant runs of deep z16 and even deeper stations which have significantly added to my points and mult totals. Sunrise also shows peaks but not as pronounced as sunset. High angles can also occur during significant solar events but this is more rare than at sunset/sunrise. "You can never have too many antennas!" 73, Bill W4ZV _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Best conditions of the season
We got a piece of the action, too, in New England. I worked JH1HDT, HL5IVL, and VK6LW just before my SR. HL5IVL peaked up to 579 right at SR. We only get propagation to HL very infrequently here in W1. JA7BXS was in there but he first fired up on the disturbance on 1825 and was being obliterated by it. He later moved to 1820 but a BCB spur took him out there, too. 73, John W1FV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+john.kaufmann=verizon@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Ron Spencer via Topband Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 8:11 AM To: topband Subject: Topband: Best conditions of the season 160 was excellent this morning. Early (1138 with sunrise at 1214) heard, and worked, Tad, JH1HDT. Not long after worked Kim HL5IVL. Kevin VK6LW answered my CQ as did AL7JI (not in that order). Worked Adrian, VK2WF. Worked Takar, JA7BXS too even though he was zero beat on 1820 with a BC signal making it difficult. Almost 20 minutes after SR still hearing Kim and Tad. Hope we have more of these kind of days! Thanks all for the Qs. Ron N4XD Sent using https://www.zoho.com/mail/ _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: EZNEC Ground Errors
I have two receiving antennas on 160: an 8-circle vertical array and a low dipole up 10 feet. I have been noticing that in the first part of the evening, the dipole often hears Europe as well as, or nearly as well as, the 8-circle. This appears to indicate that the signals are arriving at relatively high angles. This might also explain why a transmit dipole at a moderate height can work well for DX. Other times, the dipole is way down from the 8-circle, and I would expect a vertical transmit antenna to do better. Occasionally in the mornings, around SR, the dipole also hears the DX as well as or sometimes better than the 8-circle. 73, John W1FV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+john.kaufmann=verizon@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Artek Manuals Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 9:39 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: EZNEC Ground Errors OR The propagation mode on 160 is not what we have popularly come to "Accept". There is a growing body of evidence that particularly at gray line that signals often arrive at a higher angles. This is often attributed to "ducting" . Maybe a lot more of 160 intercontinental propagation is due ducting rather than the more commonly thought of low angle earth to F layer hop/multi-hop stuff seen at higher frequencies? Where do i get a pair of those glasses that lets me look at radio waves so I actually see them arrive Dave NR1DX On 12/11/2020 8:58 AM, Roger Kennedy wrote: > Guy I have ALWAYS thought that the various Computer-based modelling of > Ground and its effect on Antennas is WAY off . . . > > And surely the errors are MOST significant on 160m, not just because > Antennas are near the ground (in wavelength terms) . . . but also because > even the ground 130 ft deep is still going to have an effect . . . and there > is no way EZNEC can possibly take that into account, even if you KNEW what > was underneath your topsoil ! > > In my particular case it's not the effect on Verticals on 160m that interest > me . . . it's the effect on a Low Dipole. > > Any DX stations I work on 160m will confirm I put out a pretty respectable > signal . . . my signal reports around the world and more recently I am able > to compare my RBN Reports across NA and they tend to be very similar to the > other British DXers. > > However, most people are surprised to discover that for the last 50 years I > have always used a Horizontal Half Wave dipole on 160m, at around 50ft. > > BUT I believe that EZNEC plots showing that most of the RF is just very High > Angle is WRONG . . . that's because in practice the Ground underneath it is > rubbish . . . so the Dipole's effective height above Ground is much higher. > > And in fact, it seems that most people who have Dipoles on 160m mounted over > or near a very comprehensive Radial system DO get poor results using them > for DX . . . but that goes to confirm my theory (which is all based on my > actual experience on Top Band) > > Roger G3YRO > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector -- Dave manu...@artekmanuals.com www.ArtekManuals.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: I identified signal on 1.825 MHz this morning
Here in the Boston area it was peaking from the SW on my 8 circle array. 73, John W1FV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+john.kaufmann=verizon@contesting.com] On Behalf Of w...@w5zn.org Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 7:24 AM To: David Raymond Cc: topband@contesting.com; Topband Subject: Re: Topband: I identified signal on 1.825 MHz this morning Signal is ~45 degrees from EM45 Arkansas. running about 15 dB above my noise floor. 73 Joel W5ZN On 2020-12-11 05:15, David Raymond wrote: > Signal bearing from central Iowa/EN21 is about 70 degrees based on > some interpolation from the 8 circle array. > On 12/11/2020 6:06 AM, Don Kirk wrote: >> I’m hearing a very strong pulsating signal that sounds like it might >> be >> some kind of digital communications and it’s bearing is approximately >> 73 >> degrees from my QTH near Indianapolis and wonder if others are hearing >> it >> at at what heading and does anyone recognize what it is? It’s on right >> now >> at 7:06 AM >> >> Don wd8dsb >> _ >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband >> Reflector > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Need Opinion on DXE RPS-1 or RPS-2 Preamp
I have the RPA-1, the predecessor to the RPA-2. It's an outstanding preamp with a low noise figure and very high dynamic range. I'm sure it would make a fine BOG preamp. 73, John W1FV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+john.kaufmann=verizon@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Edward via Topband Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2020 4:43 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Need Opinion on DXE RPS-1 or RPS-2 Preamp Sorry. Meant RPA 1 or 2. > On 3 Dec 2020, at 12:38 PM, Edward wrote: > > Any good? If not this one, which preamp would you recommend for a BOG > antenna? _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Shunt Fed Tower SWR Troubles
I am wondering if the air variable is flashing over. I am willing to bet that a vacuum variable would correct the problem. I use two (2) Vacuum variables in an Omega match. 73, John, W4NU Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 27, 2020, at 1:38 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote: > > Hi Dale, > > The RF voltage is always looking at the far end (stuff on the end away from > the tower base) to jump onto. > > *** Provide a deliberate, designed, long-term weather survivable metallic > path to the boom of the highest yagi and provide a low R path from the > boom to BOTH sides of at least one element at either END of the boom. This > will drastically reduce current via unintended paths. > > You will have to retune the match. > > This is much easier for a parasitic element, where the center of an > insulated element can be just strapped to the boom. But you should also > replace the balun. It will remain a source of RF loss, even if it doesn't > change value or burn up. > > RF current heating of a "balun" comes about because an engineer is only > designing the balun for the performance at 40 or 20 meters. The R of such > a device on 1.8 MHz can be quite low. I have measured one that worked FB on > a tribander that was only 173 ohms on 160. That will get very hot at power > and its effect on the tuning at the tower base can be enormous. And it is a > guaranteed source of RF loss that throws away dB's of your amp's power. RF > heating of a ferrite device gets to a point where the R characteristics > suddenly fall off the table. 80 meters likely just doesn't quite get to > that temperature because the R of the balun is higher on 80m > > You still may need to change that device for something with good stiff R > at 160, so it will not heat up and change. The 160 RF will still try to go > there. It just needs to be solidly blocked. See the Balun Designs 1116dx (x > is one of 6 or 7 hardware configurations, same innards). Or go to K9YC's > web site to make your own. Jim has some recent designs, excellent R for > 160 based on a new monster #31 ferrite core & RG400. > > Good luck, 73, and stay safe from that virus, > > Guy K2AV > >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 1:06 PM Dale Drake wrote: >> >> Here's my problem. I'm experiencing SWR problems >> with 160M shunt feed on my tower. Using a gamma >> match with HV air variable caps I am able adjust >> the tap point to get a very nice SWR curve using >> my AA-35 Zoom analyzer. The problem I having is >> that when transmitting the SWR goes up with power >> and if I key-down for very long the SWR rises >> rapidly and takes off. >> >> My set up is 70ft Rohn 25 with about 22 feet of >> mast above the top of the tower. At the top of >> the mast is a Diamond 2M/440 vertical. At 15 feet >> above the tower top is an XM-240 and 2 feet above >> the tower top is a 4el SteppIR. The elements of >> the SteppIR are fully retracted. All of the coax >> and control lines are run from ground level inside >> the tower up to the service loop. On the mast >> above the tower the coax is tywrapped to the mast. >> There are 60 ground radials with an average length >> of 90ft. The reflector of the XM-240 is insulated >> from the boom and the driven element is fed >> through a Comtek 1:1 balun. All of the coax >> shields are grounded at the tower base. >> >> I have an 80M gamma matched shunt on this tower >> that plays FB with no weird SWR stuff going on. >> >> I suspect that what is causing my 160M trouble is >> that RF is coupling through the 40M coax, through >> the balun and into the driven element. Somehow the >> coupling changes with power, which I don't >> understand. I suspect that when I key-down and >> the SWR takes off, the core in the balun is >> getting hot and the magnetic properties are >> shifting until it cools off and returns to normal. >> >> My plan to try to correct this problem is to >> connect the center of the XM-240 reflector to the >> boom and to mount a box at the XM-240 feed point >> with 2 vacuum relays that I will use to connect >> the driven element to the boom when I'm on160. >> This will be a considerable effort and expense so >> I'm looking for the group's input as to the >> soundness of my plan or if there may be other >> approaches that would be less difficult to try >> first. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Dale, AA1QD >> >> _ >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband >> Reflector >> > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Rotator Potentiometer shunt fed twr
I have never had any problems with multiple rotors on my 100 ft shunt fed 45G tower. I have had Ham IV’s, Tail Twisters, an M2 2800, and now a prop pitch from K7NV. I run full power on 160 and always have. 73, John, W4NU Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 25, 2020, at 11:04 AM, N4ZR wrote: > > Andy, I had two Yeasu rotators on my shunt-fed tower, one at 62 feet and one > at 97 feet, for about 15 years and never had trouble, although I was just > running 100 watts on 160 > > 73, Pete N4ZR > Check out the Reverse Beacon Network > at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now > spotting RTTY activity worldwide. > For spots, please use your favorite > "retail" DX cluster. > >> On 8/24/2020 6:27 PM, Roy Morgan wrote: >> Contact Norm's Rotor Service for advice. >> >> Normsrotorservice.com >> >> Roy Morgan >> K1LKY Western Mass >> >>>> On Aug 23, 2020, at 3:15 PM, Andree DL8LAS via Topband >>>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hey, >>> >>> how can I protect my rotator from HF in the shunt fed tower , so that the >>> poti or other electric doesn't burn in the rotator? >>> >>> 73 Andy DL8LAS >>> >>> >>> >>> _ >>> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector >> _ >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Rohn 25 Vertical questions.
I use a Rohn 45G 100 ft tower. It is shunt fed for 160 with an Omega match using two 1000 pfd vacuum variables. It does wrk great on 160 using around 50 radials. One of the vacuum variables has a 1 rpm 12 VDC reversible motor. The SWR stays very low. The monoband stack for 80 - 10 provides a lot of top loading.. I don't think you will go wrong Ron... 73, Joihn, W4NU (K4JAG 1959 to 1998) On 8/18/2020 2:06 PM, Ron WV4P wrote: Howdy All, I'm getting ready to put up a Rohn 25 Insulated Base ~1/4 wave vertical. (115') and I'd like to get some advice if possible. I'm using guy brackets. Any reason to use Insulators between the Big Grips / Phillystran and the brackets like is recommended on higher bands ? Any preferred goo or concoction to put on the tower sections before joining them ? Or nothing ? Any other advice on the tower / radiator itself from folks that have BTDT ? My plan is 115' and I'm using a Rocket Top at the top. Without any mast I will have my 115' but I plan to insert a mast into the rocket top (8') and have it Inside the tower, not extended above the top. I figure if it resonates too high I have 8' to play with up top. Thanks, Ron, WV4P _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Some experiments with a short beverage, not succeeding very well
Good evening Frank. Just got in from work. I was talking mainly about 160. Before 2019 I was a true alligator! 73, John, W4NU Get Outlook for iOS On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 5:54 PM -0400, wrote: Hi John, 250 feet isn't a short Beverage on 80 meters, it should perform superbly. In my -- now long ago -- professional life we built and operated phased arrays of up to 64 Beverages all the way up to 30 MHz, feeding SDRs, and they worked superbly. 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: "John Harden, D.M.D." To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2020 8:05:56 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Some experiments with a short beverage, not succeeding very well I have never had any luck with short beverages, EWE's, FLAGS, low dipoles, etc. Total waste of time. In 2010 I went to the Hi-Z 3, then the Hi-Z 4, and finally the Hi-Z 8. I hear stuff I have never heard before.. Since then I added a Waller FLAG on a 34 ft boom at 95 feet... Best moves I ever made.. 73, John, W4NU On 6/30/2020 3:04 PM, Brad Rehm wrote: > Mark, > > I didn't see any mention of a preamp. Signals from a good Beverage are > typically 20-30 dB below what you'd hear from a dipole or a vertical. > Everything else you've done looks good. Keep it up! > > 73, > Brad KV5V > Salado, Texas > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 1:57 PM Mark Lunday wrote: > >> "Beverages just want to work" is what I have heard. >> >> Not having much luck with that here. I suspect operator/installation >> error. >> >> I did a lot of reading and I must be doing something wrong. >> >> >> >> * 250 feet of insulated wire strung out in 030 degrees direction >> toward EU, pretty straight, varying in height from 4 to 6 feet, running >> through thick brush with no metal objects or artificial elements along the >> run. >> * 9:1 transformer at feed point with ground rod >> * 300 feet of coax, mix of RG-8, MMR-400 to get to the edge of the >> woods from the house >> * No terminating resistor >> >> On bands 160-40, the signals are very weak. I am monitoring WSPR, FT8. I >> can hear signals on 160-40 but they are way down compared to dipoles and >> inverted L on the same bands. Like 20-30 db down. From what I read, I >> should NOT need an HF pre-amplifier, right? >> >> Signals on 30 and 20 seem to be better and I can copy some DX from EU on >> FT8. >> >> I will try installing a new ground rod, the old one is 10 years old and >> perhaps not making a good ground connection at the feedpoint. The >> transformer is brand new, so that's not an issue. The coax has tested out >> fine. Soil is central North Carolina clay, a bit dry at this time. >> >> I am guessing performance is poor on 160-40 because of the short length >> and that it's bi-directional (no terminating resistor), which I am seeing >> on 30 meters. But I did not think it would be THIS bad on 160-40 >> >> Mark Lunday, WD4ELG >> Greensboro, NC FM06be >> wd4...@arrl.net >> http://wd4elg.blogspot.com >> SKCC #16439 FISTS #17972 QRP ARCI #16497 >> >> _ >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband >> Reflector >> > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Some experiments with a short beverage, not succeeding very well
I have never had any luck with short beverages, EWE's, FLAGS, low dipoles, etc. Total waste of time. In 2010 I went to the Hi-Z 3, then the Hi-Z 4, and finally the Hi-Z 8. I hear stuff I have never heard before.. Since then I added a Waller FLAG on a 34 ft boom at 95 feet... Best moves I ever made.. 73, John, W4NU On 6/30/2020 3:04 PM, Brad Rehm wrote: Mark, I didn't see any mention of a preamp. Signals from a good Beverage are typically 20-30 dB below what you'd hear from a dipole or a vertical. Everything else you've done looks good. Keep it up! 73, Brad KV5V Salado, Texas On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 1:57 PM Mark Lunday wrote: "Beverages just want to work" is what I have heard. Not having much luck with that here. I suspect operator/installation error. I did a lot of reading and I must be doing something wrong. * 250 feet of insulated wire strung out in 030 degrees direction toward EU, pretty straight, varying in height from 4 to 6 feet, running through thick brush with no metal objects or artificial elements along the run. * 9:1 transformer at feed point with ground rod * 300 feet of coax, mix of RG-8, MMR-400 to get to the edge of the woods from the house * No terminating resistor On bands 160-40, the signals are very weak. I am monitoring WSPR, FT8. I can hear signals on 160-40 but they are way down compared to dipoles and inverted L on the same bands. Like 20-30 db down. From what I read, I should NOT need an HF pre-amplifier, right? Signals on 30 and 20 seem to be better and I can copy some DX from EU on FT8. I will try installing a new ground rod, the old one is 10 years old and perhaps not making a good ground connection at the feedpoint. The transformer is brand new, so that's not an issue. The coax has tested out fine. Soil is central North Carolina clay, a bit dry at this time. I am guessing performance is poor on 160-40 because of the short length and that it's bi-directional (no terminating resistor), which I am seeing on 30 meters. But I did not think it would be THIS bad on 160-40 Mark Lunday, WD4ELG Greensboro, NC FM06be wd4...@arrl.net<mailto:wd4...@arrl.net> http://wd4elg.blogspot.com SKCC #16439 FISTS #17972 QRP ARCI #16497 _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Sloping Ground
I had a 160 meter inverted V up at 90 for a number of years. Sometimes it worked but overall it was useless. I took it down years ago. Now, I use a Hi-Z 8 and Waller Flag at 95 feet for receive and a 100 ft shunt fed tower for XMIT. It is all light years ahead of the Inverted V... Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 21, 2020, at 10:18 AM, cqtestk4xs--- via Topband > wrote: > > My place in Hawaii was sloped more than about 99% of all locations...a drop > of 1100 feet to sea level around 6000 feet away. It does make a difference. > I had the same slope up hill as down and i can tell you 100% for sure the > slope makes a difference. I used a bent full size vertical wire for 160 and > downhiull was far better. It would be worth the extra coax if you had a > pretty significant slope. > > Bill K4XS/KH7XS > > -Original Message- > From: Sam Josuweit > To: topband@contesting.com > Sent: Sun, Jun 21, 2020 1:53 pm > Subject: Topband: Sloping Ground > > Looking for some advice from some of you who have been there and done that > before. I'm looking at moving my 160M inverted L to a new location that > would be approximately 100 feet ASL higher and be on top of a hill with > nearly perfect sloping ground in all directions. This would change my coax > run length from 130 feet to 620 feet. I'm looking at LMR400 to meet my loss > and budget needs. Is the move to sloping ground worth the extra work and > coax loss?? > > > > Thanks > > Sam(N3XZ) > > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: FT8 clutter on the DX Cluster
I use the VE7CC node for spots. You can filter out FT8 spots on VE7CC via the 'set/noft8' command. 73, John W1FV _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Herbert Schoenbohm, KV4FZ: Silent Key
So sorry to hear about Herb. 73, John. W4NU Sent from my iPhone > On Apr 29, 2020, at 2:21 PM, d...@np2j.com wrote: > > It is with great regret that I have been informed that Herb Schoenbohm KV4FZ > has passed away this morning at his home. > Herb was 84 years of age. > > Herb has been a fixture on Topband since the very beginning, having 160 DXCC > #2 (I believe) and has been active in all 160 Meter contests over the years > setting many records. > > I personally have been amazed at his stamina in contests, even recently, he > would stay up all night CQing long after this 62 year old called it quits...I > hope I live as long as Herbie, and be able to put half the rare ones in the > log as he did routinely > > 73 Herb > > Best wishes to Herbs wife of over 50 years Monica and Sons Tom, Timmy and Eric > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: JA on 160
Sent from my iPhone Worked a JA on 160 this morning and received a 579 report. I was quite surprised and gave him a 569. K4IQJ worked him right before me. _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: DXCC Committee.
Or RG8U confirmed on 6 bands John k9uwa On 23 Mar 2020 at 17:45, Mike Waters wrote: > How about 5Y3GT? ;-) > John Goller, K9UWA & Jean Goller, N9PXF Antique Radio Restorations k9...@arrl.net Visit our Web Site at: http://www.JohnJeanAntiqueRadio.com 4836 Ranch Road Leo, IN 46765 USA 1-260-637-6426 _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 8 vs 4 direction 4-SQ?
For signals that arrive from directions that are in between the main lobe headings of a 4-square, you will lose up to a few dB of S/N compared to having 8 directions. Whether that matters to you is purely a personal performance vs. complexity/cost decision. If 90% of what you work is covered by 4 directions, then 4 directions may be good enough. If you don't want to give up any performance in any direction, then go for 8 directions. There is no right or wrong answer. 73, John W1FV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+john.kaufmann=verizon@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary K9GS Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2020 3:11 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: 8 vs 4 direction 4-SQ? A couple of companies, LBS and RemoteQTH, have started selling 8 direction 4- SQ controllers.I'm trying to understand if this would be worthwhile. My reasoning is that the main lobe is so broad you have the in-between 45 degree directions covered anyway. Thoughts?73,Gary K9GS _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: NVIS Antenna
Inverted vee dipoles do produce some vertically polarized radiation off the ends. However, that vertical component has maximum gain at zenith, i.e. straight overhead. It does not contribute to any significant low-angle radiation. You can see this by doing an antenna model. 73, John W1FV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+john.kaufmann=verizon@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2020 2:36 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: NVIS Antenna Hi Ed, I've studied this extensively for horizontally polarized antennas, but only for flat ones; I thin that inverted Vees have some vertical components. For horizontally polarized antennas, maximum gain at high angles occurs at a mounting height of about 75 electrical degrees, and falls by only about 1 dB if raised to 120 electrical degrees. By "high," I'm talking 70 degrees elevation. Also, RX is different from TX, in that with RX we don't care about loss, only signal to noise. Ground loss is a contributor to those variations based on mounting height. N6RO, an old hand on topband with a great antenna farm, rearranges his M/6 station for topband contests to bring LOTS of his antennas to the station he uses single-op. That study is here. http://k9yc.com/AntennaPlanning.pdf 73, Jim K9YC _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Slightly OT - amplifier noise
Steve, An alternative is to do the cancellation with all passive circuitry. You can find some designs on the Web but you'll have to build them yourself. An example (one that I built) is this one from WA1ION: https://www.pa4tim.nl/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/passive_bb_phasing.pdf. The drawback to the passive designs is the insertion loss. The WA1ION design works quite well but I've measured its insertion loss as about 12 dB. That may not be acceptable in many situations, particularly on the higher HF bands. 73, John W1FV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+john.kaufmann=verizon@contesting.com] On Behalf Of n2ica...@gmail.com Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2020 12:41 PM To: Topband Subject: Topband: Slightly OT - amplifier noise This discussion of Hi Z amplifiers has been quite interesting. Excellent information from W1FV and K7TJR. I have an RX amp question, related but slightly off-topic. I have an MFJ-1025/1026 noise canceler. I like to use it on the higher HF bands to cancel power line QRN. The noise is typically S3-S4, but I want it down to S0 to hear the bottom layer of stations. My sense antenna works fine, and the QRN is canceled. However, the MFJ-1025 amplifier noise is quite significant, often negating the QRN cancellation. The MFJ amplifiers are J310's. Any recommendations for something quieter ? 73, Steve, N2IC _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Hi Z amplifiers for 160m (LONG)
Hi Mike, Yes, the math can get tricky and cause you to get lost in the forest. I'm not afraid of doing math (I did a mathematics minor in graduate school) but as an engineer, I prefer to seek the simplest possible solutions to engineering problems. This is a case where you can avoid messy math by falling back on basic principles. First, I have invoked a passive, lossless phase combiner circuit for the array. There is no loss in generality in doing so. Gain or loss are just scaling factors that affect everything equally. This is why I said the total amplifier circuit noise power coming out of the combiner is exactly equal to the sum of the individual amplifier noise powers entering the combiner. There is no combining loss and energy is conserved. For circuit noise it doesn't matter what phases are used in the combiner because random noise is incoherent. Phase only matters for coherent signals. Next I fix the gain of a single vertical at 0 dB. Antenna gain is just another scaling factor and here were are only interested in relative gain (a single vertical vs. a phased array) when determining S/N ratios coming out of the combiner. When I say the received atmospheric power is one "atmospheric noise power unit", the gain is imbedded in that quantity but there is no need to actually calculate the absolute gain for our purposes. Next we invoke the principle that the spatially-averaged gain of a single vertical and a phased vertical array are exactly the same. This allows us to determine the atmospheric noise power coming out of the combiner without actually doing any phasing calculations. For our combiner the total combined atmospheric noise for the array is exactly the same as the total atmospheric noise received by a single vertical. For signals of interest, again we don't need to do any brute-force mathematical phasing calculations. We can fall back on antenna modeling programs. Of course you can do the math, but modeling programs will spare you the effort. Because we have already fixed the gain of a single vertical (at 0 dB), we can use EZNEC (or your favorite modeling program) to determine how much additional gain the array provides on the signal of interest, based on its direction of arrival. We have already established the array gain for atmospheric noise is the same for the array and the single vertical. Therefore the S/N improvement of the array vs. the single vertical (assuming atmospheric noise is the dominant noise) is just the difference between the signal gain of the array and the single vertical. Antenna modeling gives you that number. No ugly math is needed. Getting back to my earlier e-mail about circuit noise vs. atmospheric noise, we do need to keep track of the actual amplifier circuit noise relative to the atmospheric noise to insure that the circuit noise doesn't degrade the overall noise performance of the system. That will guide us in the design of a low-noise amplifier. To put numbers on these noise quantities, we need to either calculate circuit noise power, as others have already started to do, or to measure it (as I have done for different amplifiers). Similarly for atmospheric noise, we need to calculate it or measure it. I leave that for others to do. For an array of N amplified elements, we need to insure that N times the circuit noise power of a single amplifier remains well below the atmospheric received by the array. 73, John W1FV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+john.kaufmann=verizon@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Michael Tope Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 7:34 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Hi Z amplifiers for 160m (LONG) I agree with your conclusions regarding the case of isotropic atmospheric noise. This is the same reason that cold space looks like 3 Kelvin regardless of how high the antenna gain. As the antenna gain goes up you reinforce to a greater degree a lesser slice of the overall pie. This ends up being a wash. Where I think you may be mistaken, is the relationship between the number of amplified elements (N), the gain of the antenna, and properly book keeping combining losses. If I have N amplified elements and I mathematically sum the amplifiers outputs with zero combining loss (this would be equivalent to digitizing the output of each amplifier and then summing the results in digital processing), then the uncorrelated noise from the amplifiers (as you correctly point out) sum to 10*log(N). Double the number of amplified elements and you double the noise power due to the amplifiers (i.e. 3dB amplifier noise increase). So far we agree. Where it gets tricky is when you consider the mathematical addition of the over-the-air contributions. If I have a linear broadside array and I double the number of elements from N to 2*N, the mathematical sum of the components of the signal-of-interest in the bore site o
Re: Topband: Hi Z amplifiers for 160m (LONG)
To assess the impact of amplifier circuit noise in "active" receive arrays, we only need to be concerned with the contribution of amplifier circuit noise relative to atmospheric noise. The details of how signals are phased in any particular array do not matter. The objective is to keep the total contribution of amplifier noise far below the atmospheric noise so as not to degrade the overall system noise floor in any significant way. However, we need to understand that the combiner circuit that phases up the signals in a receive phased array responds very differently to amplifier noise and atmospheric noise. This makes it less obvious how to determine whether the circuit noise of a particular amplifier is "low enough". Fortunately, there is a simple way to determine that using basic principles. Let's start with a single amplified vertical antenna. To simplify the analysis, we just set the gain of the vertical to 0 dB. In practice we can do a NEC analysis to calculate absolute gain in dBi, factoring in real losses but that is not necessary and does not change the conclusions. The antenna feedpoint amplifier adds its own noise to whatever signal plus atmospheric noise is received by the vertical. Let's set the circuit noise power equal to one "circuit noise unit" and the atmospheric noise power to one "atmospheric noise unit". Of course we can put voltage (or power) numbers on those units, based on properties of the amplifier, the atmospheric noise, the actual antenna gain, and the measurement bandwidth. However, that makes things unnecessarily complicated, so we won't do that. Next we create an array of N amplified vertical antennas, each one identical to the single vertical we started out with. We feed the signals from all the antenna amplifiers into an ideal combiner circuit that does not add its own noise. The combiner circuit phases up signals to create a directive beam pattern. Now we ask how much atmospheric noise appears in the phased up sum compared to the amount of total amplifier circuit noise. The atmospheric noises received at the various verticals are all correlated. The correlation comes about because the atmospheric noise is the same at each vertical except for time delay differences caused by geometric path length differences to each antenna element. However, as I described in an earlier e-mail, the amplifier circuit noises coming from each of the antenna amplifiers are all uncorrelated. For uncorrelated noises, the combiner simply adds the circuit noise powers of the individual amplifiers as I described previously. For N elements with N amplifiers, the total circuit noise power out of the combiner is then N times one "circuit noise unit" (ignoring any additional gain or throughput loss imparted by the combiner circuit). To determine the total atmospheric noise coming out of the combiner circuit, let's assume the atmospheric noise has a completely uniform distribution in 3-dimensional space. That is, the strength of the atmospheric noise is the same in every direction. This is an idealized assumption, but is often a reasonable approximation to reality. Under these assumptions, the total atmospheric noise out of the combiner turns out to be just one "atmospheric noise unit"! In other words, it is exactly the same as the atmospheric noise coming out of a single vertical. This is because the total atmospheric noise power picked up by the array is just the gain of the array (relative to a single vertical) averaged over all of 3-dimensional space times one "atmospheric noise unit" (the noise picked up by a single vertical). That average gain is exactly 0 dB, so the total atmospheric noise doesn't change in our idealized system. It doesn't matter what the antenna pattern is; the average gain is always 0 dB, which is why we did not need to be concerned with details of how signals are phased up to form a beam pattern. Of course, a different gain applies to actual signals that are coming from a specific direction and are not uniformly distributed like atmospheric noise, which is why we see a S/N improvement when the array is aimed at a signal of interest. So, we have demonstrated that in relative terms, the amplifier circuit noise power in an array of N amplified antennas goes up by a factor N whereas the atmospheric noise does not change. That increase in the amplifier noise contribution relative to atmospheric noise degrades the overall noise figure of the system. However, as long as we keep the amplifier noise contribution small enough, the noise figure degradation can also be kept to a minimum. That is why having more amplified elements makes it more important to design the antenna amplifiers for low circuit noise. 73, John W1FV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+john.kaufmann=verizon@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Michael Tope Sent: Thursday, March
Re: Topband: Hi Z amplifiers for 160m
Lee, I think you are confusing voltage and power. For incoherent sources like amplifier noise, the voltages of multiple incoherent sources add in a root-sum-squared (RSS) fashion. The voltage of the sum of eight incoherent sources is square root of eight times a single noise source, assuming equal combining ratios. However, because power is proportional to the square of voltage, then the *power* of the combined sum is the sum of the individual noise powers. This is well known in the theory of random processes, which is the basis of communications theory. So, what I said earlier is correct. For a system with eight amplifiers, the effective total noise power in the sum is eight times the individual noise powers when the sources are combined with equal weights. The YCCC array does not use equal weights, so the powers have be weighted when combining them to get the total noise power. 73, John W1FV -Original Message- From: Lee STRAHAN To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Wed, Mar 11, 2020 10:22 pm Subject: Re: Topband: Hi Z amplifiers for 160m Hello John and all, Concerning the adding the noise in a typical array. If the noise was coherent or exactly the same signal from each element/amp the summed noise would indeed be 8 times. However circuit noise is always random and incoherent which causes the summation to be a single noise power times the square root of the number of elements assuming equal levels from each amp. In the case of 8 elements 4.5 dB increase which is no small matter as well. In the case of the three elements the noise summation would be about 2.4 dB higher than a single element. Lee K7TJR OR As the designer of the YCCC high impedance feedpoint amplifier, let me address some issues related to the design of the YCCC amplifier as well as feedpoint amplifiers in general. If you don't want to read a lot of technical gobbledygook, please disregard this message. The YCCC uses an AD8055 RF amp as the gain element. As Lee, K7TJF, points out, there are most certainly better op amps out there. However, the AD8055 was the "best" part I could find in a DIP-8 package. The "better" op amps are all SMT parts but given that the YCCC preamp was a kit, I intentionally limited the selection to DIP-8 parts that kit builders could work with relatively easily on a PCB. Not everyone is able to do a competent job soldering tiny SMT parts. Within the universe of available RF op amps, tradeoffs must be made in terms of noise, linearity, and bandwidth. The AD8055 is not the lowest noise part but it has excellent linearity and plenty of bandwidth for HF use. At my QTH there is an AM BCB station 3 miles away, which makes it a somewhat challenging EMI environment. The decision to run the op amp in a unity gain configuration comes down to linear dynamic range. It is easy to design for more gain, but it is also easily demonstrated that you will begin to suffer in terms of unwanted intermods. With the YCCC preamp, I get absolutely zero BCB intermods or distortion products in the 160m band at my QTH. In general I do not like to use an outboard preamplifier between the output of the phased array combiner circuit and my receiver because it degrades the linear dynamic range of the system. The YCCC system user's manual (Section 12.1) does specify several outboard preamps that could be used. In a low EMI environment, I think they all work fine. However, at my QTH, with the nearby AM BCB station, all of them, without exception, generate increased distortion and intermod, which I find unacceptable. It is always desirable to apply RF gain with a roofing filter in front, which is becoming common practice in high performance receivers. With my K3S receiver, the use of a unity gain antenna feedpoint preamplifier is perfectly fine if you also turn on the preamp in the K3S. This gives the best overall linear dynamic range with a preamplified short vertical system. There is no loss in noise performance because the noise on 160 and 80 is totally dominated by atmospheric noise. In measurements I made at my QTH, the internal noise of the YCCC preamp is about 10 dB lower than my daytime atmospheric noise on 160m when using a vertical about 20 feet high. You must also consider the number of active elements in an amplified antenna array when evaluating overall system noise performance. This is because the amplifier circuit noise power of all the feedpoint amplifiers is added together when the elements are phased up in a combiner. If you have N elements in your array, the effective circuit noise contribution gets multiplied by N. The YCCC array has 3 active elements at a time. However, the YCCC design is somewhat unusual in that maximum RDF is achieved when the signals from the elements are combined in unequal ratios. As a result the effective amplifier circuit noise contribution is less than 3 times (or 4.8 dB) the noise o
Re: Topband: Hi Z amplifiers for 160m
RF op amp, it would be the LMH6622, an inexpensive but very high performance SMT part. It comes as a dual op amp package but I only use one of the op amps. There is no single op amp equivalent part. The noise is very low and the linearity specs are outstanding. It is intended for use in RF systems with very stringent linearity requirements. I have built a "beta" version of an antenna feedpoint amplifier using this op amp in a very unique configuration (not a high impedance design). The effective circuit noise floor is about 8 dB lower than the AD8055 preamp with similar linear dynamic range performance and about 8 dB higher RF gain. I am still working some tradeoffs in this design, so I'm not ready to go public with it just yet. 73, John W1FV _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Conditons, other
The band was open here in Atlanta, too. I worked RT0F at 1210 Z. Then the next was JA7BXS at 1214 Z. Later I wrked JA8ISU at 1226 Z. Prior to today I was hearing nothing! The best antenna on RX was the Hi-Z 8. Then next was the Waller Flag at 95 feet. I even was hearing good on the BOG to the NW. Obviously the polarization was vertical here. Glad things are opening up. 73, John, W4NU On 2/28/2020 12:40 PM, daraym...@iowatelecom.net wrote: Here in the midwest (Iowa) we had some very good conditions to Asia this morning. When I got to the rig @ 1120z JA1LZR was calling CQ with a 569 signal to get things started. I then started CQing. I no sooner started when RT0F/Igor called in with a 579+ signal. He was so strong I first thought it was a stateside stations answering. I then went on to work another half dozen JA stations including first time call sign JI1TSD (who was extremely weak but patient) and JH2SON who I had not worked in four years. JA8ISU and JR7VHZ both had honest 589 signals. There are a couple of things I’ve begun to notice this season. I’m seeing more first time call signs (both EU and Asia) than I’ve seen in a while and also some Q’s with stations that I’ve not heard from in 4, 5, or even 10 years. I’m not sure what to attribute this to but it’s interesting nevertheless. 73. . .Dave, W0FLS _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: ARRL CW Contest
Perhaps you were on at the wrong time. Most of the 160m contest activity will be for 10 minutes or so after the top of the hour. John KK9A from Roger G3YRO To: Very curious . . . I came on 160m last night to see what NA stations I could work in the contest . . . spent half an hour tuning around and only heard 12 stations calling CQ, all of which I worked. I then figured it might be worth calling CQ, as hopefully Europeans wouldn't call me, as they only get points for working NA stations (unlike the CQ WW) And in just over half an hour I was called by 50 stations ! (I stopped when signals started dropping out after our sunrise) I was just surprised that there weren't more big NA signals on 160 calling CQ, like there is in the CQ WW - is there a reason for this? Roger G3YRO _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Recording Off the Air
I use a Sony ICD-UX560 Its MP3 files names are just numbers with an underscore which are easy to transfer to a PC. It is a tiny 2oz device that takes almost no operating space and it works quite well. John KK9A Steve Maki K8LX wrote: There was one comment on Amazon complaining about the file naming by this recorder - that after some number of 1 hour files, characters not allowed by Windows started appearing in new file names (<, ?, etc.). That would be a fatal flaw of course. What do the file names look like in your experience when you plug the SD card into a PC? Easily identifiable by hour? Have you tried recording for 48 hours? Thanks, -Steve K8LX On 01/25/20 10:21 AM, W7RH wrote: Someone asked about recording off the air. Outside of using a PC and associated resources here is an excellent device that is inexpensive and works extremely well. It records 1 hour segments and clock can be set to UTC time. Fast forward and reverse and a over one thousand hours recording on a 16Gb memory card using 64kbs bitrate. It goes up to 192kbs for high quality recording. Internal mic, external mic and line in connections. Analog and digital output. Very cool. works extremely well and very easy to use. https://www.amazon.com/Sangean-DAR-101-Professional-Digital-Recorder/dp/B003XU76QK/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=sangean+digital+recorder=1579965300=8-2 Bob, W7RH _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Strong Carrier 1828.5
It's also very strong in the greater Boston area. The signal is very steady with only a few dB of very slow fading. I get a heading of roughly SE, which would put it towards Cape Cod or Rhode Island, but it could be anywhere between E and S. It doesn't exhibit strong directivity on my 8-circle array. 73, John W1FV -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+john.kaufmann=verizon@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Don Kirk Sent: Monday, January 20, 2020 6:43 PM To: topband Subject: Topband: Strong Carrier 1828.5 Receiving strong carrier on 1828.5 KHz that sounds like sky wave. Its currently peaking 30 db over my noise floor at 6:40pm EST (2340 UTC), and it has an approximate heading of 55 degrees from the Indianapolis area (Fishers IN) which puts it on a line that goes from my location through the top of Maine. Anyone else hearing it? Don (wd8dsb) _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: Message from HI3/KC1XX
Greetings Topbanders, Matt, KC1XX, is spending the winter in HI3 and asked me to relay this message to all of you. He is on the air as HI3/KC1XX but is experiencing terrible line noise at his present location. He hears lots of stations calling him on the low bands but he is having great difficulty pulling out callsigns through the noise. He apologizes to those who have been calling without success. However, Matt moves to a different location down there in early February and the noise situation should improve. At that time he should be able to hear and work more of you. 73, John W1FV _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: Source for durable ladder line?
I'm looking for a source for durable ladder line for making two-wire reversible Beverages for use at the KC1XX contest station. In the past we've used the line sold by DX Engineering but over the years we've found that the plastic spacers between the wires become brittle and break off. It may be UV exposure that causes this. We also get some pretty severe weather at KC1XX hilltop location, with ice in the winter and frequent strong winds. The spacer breakage sometimes exposes the wires, which then become twisted, and the ladder line generally becomes weakened and prone to wire breakage. What else is available commercially? 73, John W1FV _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: FT8 and comments.
Hi guys not posted for many years , I worked as a ships Radio Officer for 28 years finally ended career with a Norwegian company working North of 65 degrees on a semi sub offshore drilling rig Dyvi Stena. In the early days had to send reports mostly cw, then later creed teleprinter horrible Radio room full of figure 8 paper copy tapes hung on nails hihi . Cw always was the mode my rig / gear old fashioned the best filter in my opinion is between your ears , no money for expensive transceivers but antennas not bad And 40 zones on 160 cw . I'm not a digi fan but hey ho each to own . All best 73 John G4EIM John Beaumont _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Activity
Didn't know about the FT8 activity on 1836, though I certainly knew about the 1826.5+ lineup. Did anyone get them digitally from NA? 73 John W7CD -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of daraym...@iowatelecom.net Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2019 9:17 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Activity Conditions were moderately good last evening (NA time) to Europe. I got on at my SS and then again later in the evening and put 32 EUs (CW) in the log including some call signs I’ve not heard from in several years. The A50BOC crew have been active and are trying hard on the low bands. This morning they were QRV on 1826.5 (QSX up 1) and 1836 on FT-8 somewhat taking turns with modes. About four NA stations that I’m aware of had success on CW. They were also on 7002 and 60m (FT-8 I believe). . .so they’ve been busy and are clearly making a serious effort. They have been working on improving their Beverages. Good luck to all who need them. 73. . .Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays. . . Dave, W0FLS in Iowa _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: H40TT on 160m
> To keep this on-topic, I worked H40TT on 20 SSB today and told him that we'd > like some CW on topband. He said that was the other op, but thought he would > be trying tonight (our morning). That would have been Grant/KZ1W, who organized the trip and does SSB/FT8. Rob/N7QT does the CW and is _very_ good. Both are members of Western WA DX Club and are great fellows. They're packing up and coming home on Thursday. It's been a REALLY wet trip for them; there were delays in getting the low band receive antennas up, since the local boys couldn't safely climb the slippery trees in the rain/wind. I was fortunate to work Rob the first night (my morning) they were on TB, then Grant the next night on digital. There was also no Internet access, so back-channel comms were limited to Rob's Garmin InReach. 73 John W7CD _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: H40TT on 160m
Dave nothing heard in UK either. Their antenna is a top loaded 18m vertical with 2 elevated radials 30ft from the sea. They’re still on 160m FT8 atm (1114z) I believe. Good luck John G3XHZ Sent from my iPhone > On 25 Nov 2019, at 09:27, Artek Manuals wrote: > > Nothing here in Florida ...not even a hint. Nothing else heard from the > Pacific in general could be condx > �What are they using for an antenna? > > Dave > NR1DX > >> On 11/25/2019 2:13 AM, Gary Smith wrote: >> Hi John, >> >> Listening with 3 different Rx antennas in >> CT & no cigar at this QTH. >> >> Not the first time, but I usually hear >> something. Tough Condx I think. >> >> Cheers & 73, >> >> Gary >> KA1J >> >>> GM all. At the moment the plan is H40TT Rob will be on 160m around his >>> sunset 0700z (EU Monday morning). If condx are no good he will switch >>> to 80m and the same again Tuesday morning. Then they will pack up in >>> the hope of flying on Thursday. Good luck 73 John G3XHZ >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> _ >>> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband >>> Reflector >>> >> >> >> _ >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector > > -- > Dave > manu...@artekmanuals.com > www.ArtekManuals.com > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: H40TT on 160m
GM all. At the moment the plan is H40TT Rob will be on 160m around his sunset 0700z (EU Monday morning). If condx are no good he will switch to 80m and the same again Tuesday morning. Then they will pack up in the hope of flying on Thursday. Good luck 73 John G3XHZ Sent from my iPhone _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: A Bit of Zone 2 History Was Made Last Week
I fully concur!! 73, John, W4NU K4JAG, 1959 to 1998 Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 9, 2019, at 12:42 PM, Doug Renwick wrote: > > To all those who worship FT8 - Enjoy the decline. > Quote: " I agree Doug - as I said - FT8 is not real ham radio - but that is > where we are today." > > Doug > > "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits." > Albert Einstein > > -Original Message- > > I congratulate you on your effort. However there are many of us who do not > consider FT8 as a 'legitimate' QSO. > Doug > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Short CQs and exchanges
> I think things are shaping up for a good season. I hope. Living in the woods near the Olympics has been a challenge on TB, with no room for anything efficient. Winter winds have destroyed previous tree-wires. The deer and other denizens have taken out beverages. Even chased a Marmot chewing on coax. I'm putting up a Top T before Thanksgiving in the hopes to improve over my wimpy, loaded half-sloper. This time it'll be Mastrant, Wireman 531, and marine-grade pulleys and thimbles. 73 John W7CD Poulsbo WA _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: 3Y0I - BOUVET Pt 2
Information about the Rebel Group's second attempt at Bouvet for those of you that haven't seen this yet: https://www.gofundme.com/f/3y0i-bouvet-island-expedition 73 John G3XHZ _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: ssb contest stations hogging cw portion
I am getting rather peed off with all these contest stations operating QRO in the cw section of topband. Where are the contest watchdogs ? 73John - M0ELS _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Protecting an Array Solutions K9AY Loop from Transmitted RF
When I owned my P40A station I had a Pennant very close to my 160m TX vertical. A K9AY preamp was at the RX antenna feedpoint with voltage fed though the coax. If I recall correctly I only shorted the RX line going to the radio during TX and left the preamp running. Most of my operation was low power however I have run legal limit and had no issues. What does the preamp manufacture recommend? John KK9A N4ZR wrote: I'm in the process of building up a K9AY loop, using the Array Solutions boxes, and it occurred to me that I probably need to work out some way to protect the preamp in the shack-end box from transmitted RF, particularly since the K9AY loop is only about 60 feet from the vertical leg of my inverted L and I'll be running 1500 watts. I can see maybe cutting off the DC to the preamp, but figure that won't be enough. Alternatively, I can probably work out a way to either open or short the feedline coming into the indoor box where the preamp is. Any advice as to which would be best (opening or shorting)? I only have one spare transistor. Advice much appreciated -- 73, Pete N4ZR Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now spotting RTTY activity worldwide. For spots, please use your favorite "retail" DX cluster. _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Supplemental ground rod installation for existing 160m tower
I would stick with the 8 bus runs length of which should be 1/3rd of this tower & Mast height and the usual 16 foot separation of 8' ground rods along those bus runs. Be sure to have one of those bus runs that connects to the other towers grounding systems. That is what I was told by Polyphaser techs years ago for this three tower system that I have. Trangle of bus runs between the three towers. Bus runs outward from each of the towers no need for overlapping so none of the tower have 8 runs outward. Plus a single run with NO ground rods from the tallest tower to the Grounding window at the house where all lines come into the shack. That single run NOT to be close to the coax,rotor,switchbox lines. Plus of course the usual perimeter bus run of 16' separation of 8' rods around parts of the house where any power lines phone lines etc come to the house. All of the existing utility ground rods to be bonded to this perimeter bus run. Tallest tower/mast here is 170' Second tallest is 130' and only 80 feet from the tall one. I have seen that one take hits. The smallest is 88' and I don't know that it has ever taken a hit but it too is part of the total single ground system. John k9uwa > I have a full size vertical built from 25G running against about 80 1/4 > WL radials - #18 insulated wire sewn into the ground an inch or two > below ground. There is a single ground rod next to the base but no > other ground rods on this tower. > > 73/jeff/ac0c > alpha-charlie-zero-charlie > www.ac0c.com John Goller, K9UWA & Jean Goller, N9PXF Antique Radio Restorations k9...@arrl.net Visit our Web Site at: http://www.JohnJeanAntiqueRadio.com 4836 Ranch Road Leo, IN 46765 USA 1-260-637-6426 _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: Hairpin match to inverted L?
A hairpin works great on non-OWA Yagi's so why not use it on a
vertical? I used a THHN primitively made hairpin coil on my P40A 160m
vertical and it really made the transmitter happy. You will have to
shorten the vertical length slightly after adding the hairpin. DX
Engineering makes a match but I have no experience with it:
https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-vmn-1
John KK9A
N4ZR wrote:
The other day a ham friend suggested using a coil ("hairpin") to match
the low impedance of a well-radialed inverted L to 50-ohm coax. This
struck me as a potentially-attractive alternative to a series vacuum
capacitor, but I don't know enough to evaluate it. Thoughts?
--
73, Pete N4ZR
Check out the Reverse Beacon Network
at <http://reversebeacon.net>, now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
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"retail" DX cluster.
_
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Effect of trees on vertical elements?
I would never consider compromising a TX antenna just to hear better. Perhaps a T vertical with a feedline choke similar to your 80m dipole and feedline radiator footprint would help with any local noise. Also there are many small RX antenna options. My station in Aruba was on a small city lot and I used a Pennant for RX which definitely received better than my shortened TX vertical. John KK9A John Harper AE5X wrote: Thanks for the info guys. If only I had room for a dedicated rx antenna - then I'd leave the top-loaded vertical as is. I was copied in New Zealand with it on 630m WSPR with 1 watt ERP. So a happy medium is what I'm after since an excellent tx antenna does me no good if I can't hear those calling me. John AE5X https://ae5x.blogspot.com _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Effect of trees on vertical elements?
Thanks for the info guys. If only I had room for a dedicated rx antenna - then I'd leave the top-loaded vertical as is. I was copied in New Zealand with it on 630m WSPR with 1 watt ERP. So a happy medium is what I'm after since an excellent tx antenna does me no good if I can't hear those calling me. John AE5X https://ae5x.blogspot.com On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 1:48 PM Tim Shoppa wrote: > John, your 80M dipole with 110 foot vertical feedline fed as a top-loaded > vertical on 160M is a wonderful antenna. > > If you are unhappy with its receive performance,the solution is to add a > receive antenna (or two, or three!). Not to put up a worse transmitting > antenna :-) > > Tim N3QE > > On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 6:05 PM John Harper wrote: > >> I'm thinking of installing an end-fed half-wave dipole as an "inverted U" >> for 160m. My tree geometry is such that the antenna would be fed at the >> base of a tree, then go up it to 120 feet. Then about 90 feet to another >> tree and down it to complete the length of the antenna. >> >> Would the close proximity of the vertical portions to the two trees >> adversely affect the antenna's performance? >> >> Last year I used my 80m dipole-110-foot vertical feedline as a top-loaded >> vertical on 160 - it worked well as a transmitting antenna but was a poor >> receiver due to noise so looking for another option. >> >> Tnx/73, >> >> John AE5X >> https://ae5x.blogspot.com >> _ >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband >> Reflector >> > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: Effect of trees on vertical elements?
I'm thinking of installing an end-fed half-wave dipole as an "inverted U" for 160m. My tree geometry is such that the antenna would be fed at the base of a tree, then go up it to 120 feet. Then about 90 feet to another tree and down it to complete the length of the antenna. Would the close proximity of the vertical portions to the two trees adversely affect the antenna's performance? Last year I used my 80m dipole-110-foot vertical feedline as a top-loaded vertical on 160 - it worked well as a transmitting antenna but was a poor receiver due to noise so looking for another option. Tnx/73, John AE5X https://ae5x.blogspot.com _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 160 portable vertical
Where in the Caribbean? Conditions and antenna requirements are much different depending where you go. As you go south it becomes more noisy and of course you're further from the target areas. One portable antenna that can work well is a kite. I have have tried them several times off the beach but had trouble keeping them in the air while operating. John KK9A pat n8vw wrote: Planning on going to some island in the Caribbean this December. Unless I find a friendly ham, will bring along my Elecraft k2 and operate qrp or lp. Looking for ideas on an easy to setup small vertical antenna to bring. N8vw _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: 160: Digital only DXCC needed
It doesn't bother me at all.. I would rather watch paint dry rather than operate FT8... I am CW man... Always have been.. 73, John, W4NU K4JAG (1959 to 1998) On 8/6/2019 12:54 PM, Hans Hjelmstr??m wrote: THANKS Dan . I agree 100 %. I said already last year. FT 8 and K1JT will kill our hobby. It takes away all efforts, challenge and personal touch. I saw yesterday 2 Hams saying,they will sell their equipment and go QRT for ever in our hobby. The ONLY possible hope, is ,if ARRL change the rules,and NOT include this FT 8 in mixed band dxcc:s.Make a special FT 8 award. That might help.And that dx-expeditions will be ONLY CW/SSB/RY 75 % and may be FT 8 25 %.Fair ? As yourself, I will never touch this mode, and I can also NOT get any fun in having my PC make these connections. We are probably some 50 % of all active Hams feeling the same, BUT answer from ARRL ( to me at least ) , was a very arrogant,,,take it or leave it. Already authorities has started to ask for Amateur frequencies to be given to other activities. I am happy ,I was active 1960 up to this day,and have had so much fun,,,BEFORE Take care,and ONLY by sharing our feelings,we might find a way to change this unfortunate changement. I know, MANY MANY SM Hams ,that still TRY to stay by human to human connections like CW/SSB/RY, but for how long ?? And even more.New Hams will not know CW.How many years will they enjoy this PC to PC connections. Probably only few years,and then QRT.That will be the end of our hobby. Thanks for the QSO on 6 meter CW some years ago,,,by the way,,, Regards Hans SM6CVX 6 aug 2019 kl. 18:32 skrev d...@np2j.com: I have been reading the posts starting with Jeff K1ZM's first post on the 160/FT8 issue. Jeff and I had some personal discussions about this during the V84SAA DXpedition. I have waited to comment because I am sad that the Hobby I love is dying. From personal experience the last couple of years I can tell you that Digital has totally killed CW/SSB activity on Six meters. Two years ago I could get on Six when band was open and start a pileup in a few minutes by calling CQ and run station after station. The first time I got on Six meters was June 6, 2017 I worked over 200 Eu stations in a few hours. That Summer I had many good runs into Europe, whenever there were Digital spots I could make CW contacts. (I think the so called advantage of FT8 pulling signals out of the noise that can't be worked on CW is a myth) Quite often I would "open the band" by calling CQ. Move on to last year 2018 and I would have to call CQ for quite a while to make a contact and then only a few people calling. This year I can call CQ for an hour and not work anyone. Sad. The same thing that has happened to Six meters has spread to the other bands including our beloved Topband. Three years ago I could call CQ on 160 and get a nice little pile-up going, work 50-100 guys in a hour or two. Two years ago the pile ups shrank to nothing, and last season I could call CQ for 10-15 minutes and NO ONE calls! The only time anyone is on is for a Contest or when a DXpedition is on. Many DX stations and worse still, DXpeditions are running mainly/only FT8 on 160. Personally I have less than Zero interest in clicking a mouse and having a computer do all the communicating. I can not see what satisfaction you get by making a "Contact" in this manner. But the fact that little skill is needed for these "contacts", nor little in the way of equipment (No big antennas, no Amps, etc) nor the fact that it is totally boring, these are not the reasons I say that Digital modes are the DEATH OF HAM RADIO. Please don't tell me "They said the same thing abt SSB" it is NOT the same! SSB did not take the Human out of the loop. First off: What happens to all the Amateur Radio equipment manufacturers that make CW keyers, paddles, microphones, headphones, etc??? Don't need any of those things to make digital "contacts" Since Digital is so superior, no need for High power Linear Amps, no big towers, no big antennas, so all those companies will go by the wayside eventually also. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY: As others have pointed out, what happens when we lose our spectrum space to commercial interests? How can we justify our need of large frequency bands when only a few Khz of bandwidth is only being used? When the Internet provides bandwidths up to hundreds of MB/second and with 5G GB/Sec speeds, compare this to our Digital modes that provide a speed of a few characters a minute??? How will we justify our need of RF spectrum when we are communicating digitally only a few characters a minute? The folks I have talked to give only one reason for using FT8: "It is an easy way to work a new one". Now since everyone has this new "easy" way to work new countries, and the "contacts" count towards the Normal Mixed DXCC award, eve
Re: Topband: BOG height
It's hard to beat the Hi-Z arrays when you have limited space.. 73, John, W4NU On 8/1/2019 1:23 PM, Chuck Dietz wrote: When I tried a BOG compared to a Beverage, I found the BOG to be almost useless compared to the Beverage. I would put up one of the arrays K9AY, SAL-30, 4sq rec, etc. I don't think you will be happy with a BOG after using a Beverage. Chuck W5PR On Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 12:08 PM Paul Mclaren wrote: Just a ???simple??? question hopefully - How close to the ground should a BOG be for best/good performance? I am looking for any additional info that I can get to supplement what I have found online already so good on the balun, wire type and termination resistor. My single unterminated beverage I have at the moment was transformational compared to a Wellbrooke loop but the location it is in will soon be 80 new homes so time to look elsewhere. Current plan is a small number (maybe three) BOG antennas switched by a remote relay but distance is limited to 200ft maximum in any direction. Plan is to use the BOGs for 160 but also 80,40 and maybe 30m. Regards Paul MM0ZBH _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Which RX antenna is better?
I am using a Hi-Z 8 here along with a Waller Flag?? (From N4IS es TopBand Systems) at 95 feet. In the past I had up a K9AY antennas, several short beverages and several Ewe's. I also had up a low dipole at one time. What I am using now is head and shoulders above any of the above listed compromise antennas. I can hear stuff now I could NEVER hear before 73, John, W4NU Atlanta (K4JAG 1959 to 1998) On 7/29/2019 9:40 AM, Mark - N5OT wrote: This is a really good answer. Thanks Tim. 73 - Mark N5OT On 7/29/2019 7:12 AM, Tim Shoppa wrote: Terry, I strongly encourage you to put up the K9AY. By no numerical measure is it the best. But it???s easy to put up and Compared to all the others, it is relatively insensitive to other objects around it. And for a first RC antenna, it is super satisfying to click between directions and hear stations in the null disappear as proof of directivity. Interactions with other antennas is a ???big station problem??? and you or I won???t notice what bothers the big stations. Tim N3QE On Jul 29, 2019, at 12:27 AM, terry burge wrote: Hi folks, I have four kits purchased on ebay for receive antennas as well as a bi-directional beverage from KD9SV. Looking on my county plot map it looks like I can run about a 412' beverage using my neighbors ground and mine. Got a good neighbor you could say who just doesn't want a BOG to trip on but a beverage not too low to walk into is Ok. My ebay provided kits are DHDL, EWE and Penant/flag/diamond from a low cost Canada source. But I'm faced with the problem of fences, power lines, roads and my TX antennas on my 1 1/2 acre plot. If one of those antennas could handle being near the fences,etc or TX antennas I'd like to hear about it. I've already got a K9AY in the works and that one is near my 40 meter 4-square. Running the beverage is going to be near or even under my K8UR style 80 meter 4-square made with 1/2 WL slopers. I've thought some about converting the 80 meter 4-square to using 3":irrigation tubing extended with some 3" irrigation tubing and a coil at the elevated base but I'm j ust not sure if it would be an improvement. It would be near 50' verticals if I could do it. Not sure if I would lose too much gain. Any suggestions other?? than 'give up'? I've always had a time hearing the DX especially on 160 meters. Terry KI7M _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: Trailer mounted mast earthing
GE all. I’m planning on installing a 160m inverted L and 80m vertical on opposite sides of a trailer-mounted 100ft steel telescopic mast. Both antennas will have K2AV folded counterpoises 10ft high as there is no space for ground radials. The ‘vertical’ wires will be 5ft away from the mast at the top and 15ft away at the base. My question is whether it is better to earth the trailer or leave it floating with the outriggers on insulating pads in order to minimise losses in the tower (not considering lightning protection). I appreciate that the answer might be different for each antenna. Any thoughts please? 73 John G3XHZ Sent from my iPhone _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
