Re: Topband: BOG height
Guy, et al At Lowbandsystems we have many feedbacks and questions from our customers around the Europe and Russia. U, L bends following property lines, intentional bends to have “two direction” beverages, part of the beverage wire buried under the public road and other funny stories. But most astonishing case was a guy who put his 800’ beverage wire into his radio room at the basement, and used some existing steel pipes as grounding at the feed point right next to his receiver TO REDUCE losses in the feedline ! 73, Andrei RA6LBS вс, 4 авг. 2019 г. в 22:18, Guy Olinger K2AV : > Hi Mike, et al. > > I have personal acquaintance and knowledge of a number of hams who have put > down a BOG that was anything but straight. Some with 90 degree bends, > another shaped like a Z, and less extreme bends. The end of those small > lot, weird property situational BOG attempts, is that a few didn't do much, > maybe nothing. But some significantly improved signal ratio of incoming > desired 160m signal to local noise. This appears to invoke a degree of > something clearly seen on straight BOGS where local noise from broadside > the BOG is reduced significantly. Theoretically some could object that > 20-25 dB side rejection is reduced by a bend, and it surely IS reduced. > HOWEVER... > > ... And a big however, even if only 4-6 dB of the reduction remains, a > general reduction of 4 dB noise on a given 160 signal will make a big > difference in results, in who he hears and hears not. Theoretical thought > and practical thought sometimes give one different answers to "To Do or not > to Do, that is the question". Theoretical should serve the practical, not > the other way around. > > Sometimes our beloved reflector mob is inclined to entirely dismiss > anecdotal material from the field, dismiss anything that was not derived > from a controlled lab-style experiment. The lab-style experiment is good to > establish behaviors as fact, principles to use. BUT the anecdotal tells us > how it plays in the real world, where the lab experiment derived > implementation rules are often simply not possible. > > In the end, one needs to understand the factors that bear upon performance, > AND understand them WELL, but then just go try stuff out, even if some > aspects of the lab version have to be bent or ignored. Try things. > Personally I will take 4-6 dB improvement on hearing Europe, and it will > show up in my contest scores. > > 73, Guy K2AV > > On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 1:59 PM Mike Waters wrote: > > > Based on questions I've received over the years from hams who found my > > Beverage antenna page, there is an an additional problem. > > > > Some hams just do not grasp that: > > (1) Beverages are directional, like a Yagi is. > > (2) A Beverage has to be reasonably straight. Dozens of folks want to put > > it over an existing fence, where it winds up being an L or U shape. > > > > 73, Mike > > www.w0btu.com > > > > On Sun, Aug 4, 2019, 12:34 PM FZ Bruce wrote: > > > > > ... > > > The problem with the BOG is not the antenna, but new users who try to > > > use above ground Beverage information to make it work.. > > > > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > Reflector > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > -- Andrey Fedorishchev, RA6LBS http://lowbandsystems.com/ _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: BOG height
Hi Mike, et al. I have personal acquaintance and knowledge of a number of hams who have put down a BOG that was anything but straight. Some with 90 degree bends, another shaped like a Z, and less extreme bends. The end of those small lot, weird property situational BOG attempts, is that a few didn't do much, maybe nothing. But some significantly improved signal ratio of incoming desired 160m signal to local noise. This appears to invoke a degree of something clearly seen on straight BOGS where local noise from broadside the BOG is reduced significantly. Theoretically some could object that 20-25 dB side rejection is reduced by a bend, and it surely IS reduced. HOWEVER... ... And a big however, even if only 4-6 dB of the reduction remains, a general reduction of 4 dB noise on a given 160 signal will make a big difference in results, in who he hears and hears not. Theoretical thought and practical thought sometimes give one different answers to "To Do or not to Do, that is the question". Theoretical should serve the practical, not the other way around. Sometimes our beloved reflector mob is inclined to entirely dismiss anecdotal material from the field, dismiss anything that was not derived from a controlled lab-style experiment. The lab-style experiment is good to establish behaviors as fact, principles to use. BUT the anecdotal tells us how it plays in the real world, where the lab experiment derived implementation rules are often simply not possible. In the end, one needs to understand the factors that bear upon performance, AND understand them WELL, but then just go try stuff out, even if some aspects of the lab version have to be bent or ignored. Try things. Personally I will take 4-6 dB improvement on hearing Europe, and it will show up in my contest scores. 73, Guy K2AV On Sun, Aug 4, 2019 at 1:59 PM Mike Waters wrote: > Based on questions I've received over the years from hams who found my > Beverage antenna page, there is an an additional problem. > > Some hams just do not grasp that: > (1) Beverages are directional, like a Yagi is. > (2) A Beverage has to be reasonably straight. Dozens of folks want to put > it over an existing fence, where it winds up being an L or U shape. > > 73, Mike > www.w0btu.com > > On Sun, Aug 4, 2019, 12:34 PM FZ Bruce wrote: > > > ... > > The problem with the BOG is not the antenna, but new users who try to > > use above ground Beverage information to make it work.. > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: BOG height
Based on questions I've received over the years from hams who found my Beverage antenna page, there is an an additional problem. Some hams just do not grasp that: (1) Beverages are directional, like a Yagi is. (2) A Beverage has to be reasonably straight. Dozens of folks want to put it over an existing fence, where it winds up being an L or U shape. 73, Mike www.w0btu.com On Sun, Aug 4, 2019, 12:34 PM FZ Bruce wrote: > ... > The problem with the BOG is not the antenna, but new users who try to > use above ground Beverage information to make it work.. > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: BOG height
North Haven Island is close to my QTH across water. Sam Beverage W1MGP (sk) a relative of Harold and locals had a Friday evening 10 meter SSB schedule. We discussed Harold's antennas often. Years went by and it was rare for someone to miss the schedule. The problem with the BOG is not the antenna, but new users who try to use above ground Beverage information to make it work.. The "on ground" part of the antenna often does not work right because sand and other non-conductive soil are insulators. Over insulating soil it does act like a real Beverage antenna. Its a good antenna. Every few years there are a few new DXers trying to figure it out. 73 Bruce -k1fz -From: "K4SAV" To: topband@contesting.com Cc: Sent: Sunday August 4 2019 9:35:06AM Subject: Re: Topband: BOG height K1FZ said: "The Amateur Radio BOG is mis-named, should have been something like WOG (wire on ground)" I think BOG is a perfect name. It honors the inventor Harold Beverage. We have lots of things in ham radio that are misnamed but BOG isn't one of them. An interesting read is this interview with Harold Beverage. It's long but interesting. http://www.contesting.com/_topband [1] - Topband Reflector Links: -- [1] https://ethw.org/Oral-History:Harold_H._Beverage https://ethw.org/Oral-History:Harold_H._Beverage /> Jerry, K4SAV _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: BOG height
K1FZ said: "The Amateur Radio BOG is mis-named, should have been something like WOG (wire on ground)" I think BOG is a perfect name. It honors the inventor Harold Beverage. We have lots of things in ham radio that are misnamed but BOG isn't one of them. An interesting read is this interview with Harold Beverage. It's long but interesting. https://ethw.org/Oral-History:Harold_H._Beverage Jerry, K4SAV _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: BOG height
The Wave (BOG) antennas in Maine were very low frequency. The height above ground in wavelength was low. Radio Corporation of America 1XAO here in Belfast was using 15 to 22 KHZ prior to 1924. The antenna length was 52,610 feet in length (just under 10 Miles) To develop a good front to back , and pattern a BOG needs to be close to the ground in terms of wavelength. As Guy K2AV said it does not behave like an above ground Beverage antenna. The Amateur Radio BOG is mis-named, should have been something like WOG (wire on ground) 73 Bruce- K1FZ -From: "K4SAV" To: topband@contesting.com Cc: Sent: Saturday August 3 2019 9:44:11PM Subject: Re: Topband: BOG height K2AV seem to be a storehouse of information. Thanks again Guy. One point, K2AV said: "If you model a real BOG, you find that beyond an ELECTRICAL half wave ON THE WIRE, or two hundred something feet on 160, extending the BOG wire will start to REVERSE the pattern." That never happened with my 366 ft BOG when it was lying on dead grass at an average of about 1.5 inches above the dirt. My tests comparing a 250 ft BOG to a 366 ft one showed no significant front to back difference. There were some pattern differences in other directions. I have never put a BOG directly on dirt so I can't say what happens there. Measured data with the BOG 1.5 inches above the dirt does show that BOG gain drops about 6 dB right after a heavy rain or about the same when covered by an inch of snow. Normally the gain of both the 250 and 366 ft BOGs were at about -17 dBi measured by comparison to another antenna that I know the gain of. I do know where the 250 ft recommended length for a 160 BOG came from. It came from NEC. I can make those same conclusions too if I only look at NEC data. I originally decided on 365 ft because NEC said it was better than 250 ft. Subsequently I have lost confidence in NEC being able to calculate BOG performance at any length. That was the impetus for my tests comparing 250 to 366 ft. K2AV also said: "A "beverage" ON the ground really is NOT a beverage." I agree that there is a lot of difference between a BOG and a Beverage above ground. At least that's the way we refer to them now but did you know that the antenna invented by Harold Beverage was a wire lying on the ground? Here is an excerpt from an interview with him: Beverage's words: "I invented the receiving antenna, the groundwave, the long waves laid on the ground. They were unidirectional, and nobody knew why. Others — the Navy — had used the ground waves, too. So I took a big heavy receiver down the line and broke into some wires to see how the signals built up as it went towards the north and the static went down. Then going the other way, the signal went down and the static came up. Well, I discovered that the reason that that antenna wire laying on the ground was unidirectional was the high losses. So that the static had built up to the northeast end and never got back down to the southwest end into the receiver. It was unidirectional just simply because of the losses of the wire laying on the ground. The idea then was we put stuff on wires at the northeast end. There was a resistor equal to the impedance of the antenna to make it unidirectional. You had but one wire I think." Jerry, K4SAV _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [1] - Topband Reflector Links: -- [1] http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: BOG height
K2AV seem to be a storehouse of information. Thanks again Guy. One point, K2AV said: "If you model a real BOG, you find that beyond an ELECTRICAL half wave ON THE WIRE, or two hundred something feet on 160, extending the BOG wire will start to REVERSE the pattern." That never happened with my 366 ft BOG when it was lying on dead grass at an average of about 1.5 inches above the dirt. My tests comparing a 250 ft BOG to a 366 ft one showed no significant front to back difference. There were some pattern differences in other directions. I have never put a BOG directly on dirt so I can't say what happens there. Measured data with the BOG 1.5 inches above the dirt does show that BOG gain drops about 6 dB right after a heavy rain or about the same when covered by an inch of snow. Normally the gain of both the 250 and 366 ft BOGs were at about -17 dBi measured by comparison to another antenna that I know the gain of. I do know where the 250 ft recommended length for a 160 BOG came from. It came from NEC. I can make those same conclusions too if I only look at NEC data. I originally decided on 365 ft because NEC said it was better than 250 ft. Subsequently I have lost confidence in NEC being able to calculate BOG performance at any length. That was the impetus for my tests comparing 250 to 366 ft. K2AV also said: "A "beverage" ON the ground really is NOT a beverage." I agree that there is a lot of difference between a BOG and a Beverage above ground. At least that's the way we refer to them now but did you know that the antenna invented by Harold Beverage was a wire lying on the ground? Here is an excerpt from an interview with him: Beverage's words: "I invented the receiving antenna, the groundwave, the long waves laid on the ground. They were unidirectional, and nobody knew why. Others — the Navy — had used the ground waves, too. So I took a big heavy receiver down the line and broke into some wires to see how the signals built up as it went towards the north and the static went down. Then going the other way, the signal went down and the static came up. Well, I discovered that the reason that that antenna wire laying on the ground was unidirectional was the high losses. So that the static had built up to the northeast end and never got back down to the southwest end into the receiver. It was unidirectional just simply because of the losses of the wire laying on the ground. The idea then was we put stuff on wires at the northeast end. There was a resistor equal to the impedance of the antenna to make it unidirectional. You had but one wire I think." Jerry, K4SAV _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: BOG height
Guy, Thanks and two initial questions: 1) what are the consequences good or bad if the wire is 2 inches above the ground? 2) any recommendations on a BOG amplifier? Thanks Paul On Sat, 3 Aug 2019 at 23:29, Cecil wrote: > Guy...a great post! > > Great information for those of us who are looking for RX antenna options > but don’t have the room for the normal RX antennas... > > And also a real breath of fresh air in light of our recent discussions.. > > Thank You! > > Cecil > K5DL > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Aug 3, 2019, at 5:17 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote: > > > > Hi, Ed, > > > > You're on the right track. > > > > A "beverage" ON the ground really is NOT a beverage. For two things to > be > > called the same genus, they need to have most everything in common. This > is > > true of big yagis, little yagis, short yagis, long yagis, trapped yagis, > > linear loaded yagis, end loaded yagis, moxons, yagis at 30 feet and yagis > > at 200 feet, etc. One program optimizes them all. A yagi is a yagi, is a > > yagi, is a yagi, and all of them have a ton of yagi-ness held in common. > > Simply not so BOG vs. beverage. > > > > Creating beverage advice from one particulars person's wire down close to > > or on the ground at their particular property, may be simply and totally > > wrong for someone else. The normal beverage tuning instructions, usually > OK > > for wires a foot off the ground and maybe even OK to some degree for four > > inches, simply do not apply if the wire is actually laying on the ground. > > > > A regular beverage has a decent RX signal strength. To be truthful, a > > **real** BOG needs a remote amplifier, because its output is way down > from > > a real beverage. Get this much straight: an actual BOG is a LOW output > > antenna, period. The way to improve a BOG's signal output is add an amp > > (best remote), or escape BOG-iness and lift it off the ground. > > > > If you model a real BOG, you find that beyond an ELECTRICAL half wave ON > > THE WIRE, or two hundred something feet on 160, extending the BOG wire > will > > start to REVERSE the pattern. No real beverage ever does that. Just some > > beverage lengths are bit better than others FOR REAL BEVERAGES. A BOG is > a > > single band antenna for optimums. It will hear stuff on other bands, but > > forget a designed pattern like you have on a beverage for several bands, > > that work WELL on several bands. > > > > If you are even two inches above actual ground, laying on top of grass, > you > > are blending the very different worlds of pure BOG and pure beverage. If > > you are at two inches, you are at a poor place to advise either owners of > > pure BOG's or pure beverages. The great problem is that exactly which > type > > you are closer to depends on the vagaries of the location-specific ground > > underneath. > > > > These vagaries wander HUGELY ( I'm talking about an actually carefully > > measured wandering HUGELY) depending on individual properties. > > Based on those **measurements** it is a normal outcome that one end of > the > > wire could be more BOG and the other end of the same wire could be more > > beverage, and even vary more depending on whether it rained in the last > few > > days (or weeks depending on the local and natural drainage of the soil). > > > > It is clear reading a lot of the posts on BOG's from the last week or > two, > > that a lot of users were expecting greater signal output. Don't. A REAL > > *BOG* that was laid down, notched in the grass down to the actual ground > > surface, to get it out of sight and safe from lawn mowers, WILL sound > MUCH > > better to the ear if it has an amp. Otherwise, a BOG is a LOW LEVEL RX > > antenna. > > > > IN GENERAL, a real BOG needs an amplifier, will usually wind up somewhere > > 180 to 230 feet if you want front to back, and it's great advantage is > that > > it can't be mowed, snagged by galloping deer, have tree branches knock it > > down, be seen by unfriendly neighbors and it will do roughly as well as a > > single direction K9AY, but without the AY's ugly wires above the ground, > IF > > it's amplified. If the feed circuitry is done correctly, a BOG will be > > wonderful at reducing local noise off the sides. > > > > You will increase signal level significantly by getting it up an inch or > > two on top of the grass, but it ain't a pure BOG anymore, the VF is > > increased significantly, and then it needs more length to be optimum at > two > > inches. And you will still not be able to tune it smartly like a beverage > > using SWR to the terminating resistor. > > > > BOGs are a cantankerous RX antenna. You can throw a 250' wire down on top > > of the lawn and take it up after the contest. In normal (not super quiet) > > settings it WILL hear a lot of signals better than the inverted L. Just > > understand that is NOT a design antenna, and was not optimized, did not > > have the best signal to noise of a designed-for-location BOG antenna, and > > was
Re: Topband: BOG height
Guy...a great post! Great information for those of us who are looking for RX antenna options but don’t have the room for the normal RX antennas... And also a real breath of fresh air in light of our recent discussions.. Thank You! Cecil K5DL Sent from my iPad > On Aug 3, 2019, at 5:17 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote: > > Hi, Ed, > > You're on the right track. > > A "beverage" ON the ground really is NOT a beverage. For two things to be > called the same genus, they need to have most everything in common. This is > true of big yagis, little yagis, short yagis, long yagis, trapped yagis, > linear loaded yagis, end loaded yagis, moxons, yagis at 30 feet and yagis > at 200 feet, etc. One program optimizes them all. A yagi is a yagi, is a > yagi, is a yagi, and all of them have a ton of yagi-ness held in common. > Simply not so BOG vs. beverage. > > Creating beverage advice from one particulars person's wire down close to > or on the ground at their particular property, may be simply and totally > wrong for someone else. The normal beverage tuning instructions, usually OK > for wires a foot off the ground and maybe even OK to some degree for four > inches, simply do not apply if the wire is actually laying on the ground. > > A regular beverage has a decent RX signal strength. To be truthful, a > **real** BOG needs a remote amplifier, because its output is way down from > a real beverage. Get this much straight: an actual BOG is a LOW output > antenna, period. The way to improve a BOG's signal output is add an amp > (best remote), or escape BOG-iness and lift it off the ground. > > If you model a real BOG, you find that beyond an ELECTRICAL half wave ON > THE WIRE, or two hundred something feet on 160, extending the BOG wire will > start to REVERSE the pattern. No real beverage ever does that. Just some > beverage lengths are bit better than others FOR REAL BEVERAGES. A BOG is a > single band antenna for optimums. It will hear stuff on other bands, but > forget a designed pattern like you have on a beverage for several bands, > that work WELL on several bands. > > If you are even two inches above actual ground, laying on top of grass, you > are blending the very different worlds of pure BOG and pure beverage. If > you are at two inches, you are at a poor place to advise either owners of > pure BOG's or pure beverages. The great problem is that exactly which type > you are closer to depends on the vagaries of the location-specific ground > underneath. > > These vagaries wander HUGELY ( I'm talking about an actually carefully > measured wandering HUGELY) depending on individual properties. > Based on those **measurements** it is a normal outcome that one end of the > wire could be more BOG and the other end of the same wire could be more > beverage, and even vary more depending on whether it rained in the last few > days (or weeks depending on the local and natural drainage of the soil). > > It is clear reading a lot of the posts on BOG's from the last week or two, > that a lot of users were expecting greater signal output. Don't. A REAL > *BOG* that was laid down, notched in the grass down to the actual ground > surface, to get it out of sight and safe from lawn mowers, WILL sound MUCH > better to the ear if it has an amp. Otherwise, a BOG is a LOW LEVEL RX > antenna. > > IN GENERAL, a real BOG needs an amplifier, will usually wind up somewhere > 180 to 230 feet if you want front to back, and it's great advantage is that > it can't be mowed, snagged by galloping deer, have tree branches knock it > down, be seen by unfriendly neighbors and it will do roughly as well as a > single direction K9AY, but without the AY's ugly wires above the ground, IF > it's amplified. If the feed circuitry is done correctly, a BOG will be > wonderful at reducing local noise off the sides. > > You will increase signal level significantly by getting it up an inch or > two on top of the grass, but it ain't a pure BOG anymore, the VF is > increased significantly, and then it needs more length to be optimum at two > inches. And you will still not be able to tune it smartly like a beverage > using SWR to the terminating resistor. > > BOGs are a cantankerous RX antenna. You can throw a 250' wire down on top > of the lawn and take it up after the contest. In normal (not super quiet) > settings it WILL hear a lot of signals better than the inverted L. Just > understand that is NOT a design antenna, and was not optimized, did not > have the best signal to noise of a designed-for-location BOG antenna, and > was not as good as a beverage. > > We know what the issues are, but new-comers to the BOG idea just don't know > the vagaries and how to squeeze the best out of on THEIR property. > > The category is Ground Low Velocity Factor (GLVF) antennas. DOGs, LOGs and > BOGs. If they're up in the air, even two inches, they're likely NOT GLVF. > GLVF are low output RX antennas. If you are looking for high signal output >
Re: Topband: BOG height
Hi, Ed, You're on the right track. A "beverage" ON the ground really is NOT a beverage. For two things to be called the same genus, they need to have most everything in common. This is true of big yagis, little yagis, short yagis, long yagis, trapped yagis, linear loaded yagis, end loaded yagis, moxons, yagis at 30 feet and yagis at 200 feet, etc. One program optimizes them all. A yagi is a yagi, is a yagi, is a yagi, and all of them have a ton of yagi-ness held in common. Simply not so BOG vs. beverage. Creating beverage advice from one particulars person's wire down close to or on the ground at their particular property, may be simply and totally wrong for someone else. The normal beverage tuning instructions, usually OK for wires a foot off the ground and maybe even OK to some degree for four inches, simply do not apply if the wire is actually laying on the ground. A regular beverage has a decent RX signal strength. To be truthful, a **real** BOG needs a remote amplifier, because its output is way down from a real beverage. Get this much straight: an actual BOG is a LOW output antenna, period. The way to improve a BOG's signal output is add an amp (best remote), or escape BOG-iness and lift it off the ground. If you model a real BOG, you find that beyond an ELECTRICAL half wave ON THE WIRE, or two hundred something feet on 160, extending the BOG wire will start to REVERSE the pattern. No real beverage ever does that. Just some beverage lengths are bit better than others FOR REAL BEVERAGES. A BOG is a single band antenna for optimums. It will hear stuff on other bands, but forget a designed pattern like you have on a beverage for several bands, that work WELL on several bands. If you are even two inches above actual ground, laying on top of grass, you are blending the very different worlds of pure BOG and pure beverage. If you are at two inches, you are at a poor place to advise either owners of pure BOG's or pure beverages. The great problem is that exactly which type you are closer to depends on the vagaries of the location-specific ground underneath. These vagaries wander HUGELY ( I'm talking about an actually carefully measured wandering HUGELY) depending on individual properties. Based on those **measurements** it is a normal outcome that one end of the wire could be more BOG and the other end of the same wire could be more beverage, and even vary more depending on whether it rained in the last few days (or weeks depending on the local and natural drainage of the soil). It is clear reading a lot of the posts on BOG's from the last week or two, that a lot of users were expecting greater signal output. Don't. A REAL *BOG* that was laid down, notched in the grass down to the actual ground surface, to get it out of sight and safe from lawn mowers, WILL sound MUCH better to the ear if it has an amp. Otherwise, a BOG is a LOW LEVEL RX antenna. IN GENERAL, a real BOG needs an amplifier, will usually wind up somewhere 180 to 230 feet if you want front to back, and it's great advantage is that it can't be mowed, snagged by galloping deer, have tree branches knock it down, be seen by unfriendly neighbors and it will do roughly as well as a single direction K9AY, but without the AY's ugly wires above the ground, IF it's amplified. If the feed circuitry is done correctly, a BOG will be wonderful at reducing local noise off the sides. You will increase signal level significantly by getting it up an inch or two on top of the grass, but it ain't a pure BOG anymore, the VF is increased significantly, and then it needs more length to be optimum at two inches. And you will still not be able to tune it smartly like a beverage using SWR to the terminating resistor. BOGs are a cantankerous RX antenna. You can throw a 250' wire down on top of the lawn and take it up after the contest. In normal (not super quiet) settings it WILL hear a lot of signals better than the inverted L. Just understand that is NOT a design antenna, and was not optimized, did not have the best signal to noise of a designed-for-location BOG antenna, and was not as good as a beverage. We know what the issues are, but new-comers to the BOG idea just don't know the vagaries and how to squeeze the best out of on THEIR property. The category is Ground Low Velocity Factor (GLVF) antennas. DOGs, LOGs and BOGs. If they're up in the air, even two inches, they're likely NOT GLVF. GLVF are low output RX antennas. If you are looking for high signal output from the antenna without an amplifier, just forget GLVF. Been there, done all of that. 73, Guy K2AV On Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 2:57 PM Ed Sawyer wrote: > Isn't BOG still a beverage just with more ground coupling loss because its > literally "on the ground"? So the typical answer on beverages seems to be > that 4 - 10 ft above the ground is low enough to eliminate the undesired > noise but high enough to reduce the losses from being too low to the > ground. > A BOG is a beverage
Re: Topband: BOG height
That is absolutely so. I have been using BOG's for years, running them in and out on the neighbor farmer's field, until a friend of mine told me that I really must raise the wire. Having done so during the last winter, with kind permission from the farmer, I can tell you that Chuck is spot on. Raise the wire above the ground, and It's totally different. While I use my antennas for MW DXing, it should be the same for topband DX. With the BOGs I could, on a nice night, hear some fair long distance stations, with an elevated wire I now regularly can catch Andean MW stations in my location, which is Sweden. summer or winter. /hermod >Ursprungligt meddelande >Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2019 12:23:10 -0500 >From: Chuck Dietz >To: Paul Mclaren >Cc: Topband >Subject: Re: Topband: BOG height >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > >When I tried a BOG compared to a Beverage, I found the BOG to be almost >useless compared to the Beverage. I would put up one of the arrays K9AY, >SAL-30, 4sq rec, etc. >I don't think you will be happy with a BOG after using a Beverage. > >Chuck W5PR _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: BOG height
Lee, It definitely isn’t arid round here. Paul On Thu, 1 Aug 2019 at 20:00, Lee. KX4TT via Topband wrote: > Moisture can adversely affect a BOGs performance. BOGs work best in arid > climates...so if you see me running around with a Ladies Heat > Gun (hair dryer) in the middle of the night > > Lee KX4TT > > -Original Message- > From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Harald > Rester > Sent: Thursday, 1 August, 2019 14:55 > To: topband@contesting.com > Subject: Re: Topband: BOG height > > Paul, > > the higher the wire, the more output of the antenna, but all other > paramters changes as well. I can say definitely that a unidirectional BOG > with 270ft works ways better than a beverage with the same size (abt > Lambda/2 on 160m) My BOGs have the W7IUV Preamp, works fine. > > 73! > > Am 01.08.2019 um 20:10 schrieb Paul Mclaren: > > Thanks so far, interesting that it doesn’t always work well for everyone. > > I am working on a compromise here so any result is a bit of a gain. > > > > Don’t worry I get the ON the ground part, just looking for practical > > advice does that mean insulation of the wire touching for the whole > > run or slightly above and at what point does it no longer be on the > ground1 > > inch, 6 inches? Does it the gain get sharper as the wire height > changes? > > > > > > Regards > > > > Paul > > > > On Thu, 1 Aug 2019 at 19:01, Wes wrote: > > > >> Doesn't "BOG" mean, Beverage On Ground? If so, isn't the a nswer, > >> "on the ground"? > >> > >> Wes N7WS > >> > >> On 8/1/2019 10:08 AM, Paul Mclaren wrote: > >>> Just a ‘simple’ question hopefully - How close to the ground should > >>> a BOG be for best/good performance? > >>> > >>> I am looking for any additional info that I can get to supplement > >>> what I have found online already so good on the balun, wire type and > >>> termination resistor. > >>> > >>> My single unterminated beverage I have at the moment was > >>> transformational compared to a Wellbrooke loop but the location it > >>> is in will soon be 80 > >> new > >>> homes so time to look elsewhere. Current plan is a small number > >>> (maybe > >>> three) BOG antennas switched by a remote relay but distance is > >>> limited to 200ft maximum in any direction. > >>> > >>> Plan is to use the BOGs for 160 but also 80,40 and maybe 30m. > >>> > >>> Regards > >>> > >>> Paul MM0ZBH > >>> _ > >>> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > >> Reflector > >> > >> > >> _ > >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > >> Reflector > >> > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > Reflector > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: BOG height
Moisture can adversely affect a BOGs performance. BOGs work best in arid climates...so if you see me running around with a Ladies Heat Gun (hair dryer) in the middle of the night Lee KX4TT -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Harald Rester Sent: Thursday, 1 August, 2019 14:55 To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: BOG height Paul, the higher the wire, the more output of the antenna, but all other paramters changes as well. I can say definitely that a unidirectional BOG with 270ft works ways better than a beverage with the same size (abt Lambda/2 on 160m) My BOGs have the W7IUV Preamp, works fine. 73! Am 01.08.2019 um 20:10 schrieb Paul Mclaren: > Thanks so far, interesting that it doesn’t always work well for everyone. > I am working on a compromise here so any result is a bit of a gain. > > Don’t worry I get the ON the ground part, just looking for practical > advice does that mean insulation of the wire touching for the whole > run or slightly above and at what point does it no longer be on the > ground1 > inch, 6 inches? Does it the gain get sharper as the wire height changes? > > > Regards > > Paul > > On Thu, 1 Aug 2019 at 19:01, Wes wrote: > >> Doesn't "BOG" mean, Beverage On Ground? If so, isn't the a nswer, >> "on the ground"? >> >> Wes N7WS >> >> On 8/1/2019 10:08 AM, Paul Mclaren wrote: >>> Just a ‘simple’ question hopefully - How close to the ground should >>> a BOG be for best/good performance? >>> >>> I am looking for any additional info that I can get to supplement >>> what I have found online already so good on the balun, wire type and >>> termination resistor. >>> >>> My single unterminated beverage I have at the moment was >>> transformational compared to a Wellbrooke loop but the location it >>> is in will soon be 80 >> new >>> homes so time to look elsewhere. Current plan is a small number >>> (maybe >>> three) BOG antennas switched by a remote relay but distance is >>> limited to 200ft maximum in any direction. >>> >>> Plan is to use the BOGs for 160 but also 80,40 and maybe 30m. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Paul MM0ZBH >>> _ >>> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband >> Reflector >> >> >> _ >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband >> Reflector >> > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: BOG height
Isn't BOG still a beverage just with more ground coupling loss because its literally "on the ground"? So the typical answer on beverages seems to be that 4 - 10 ft above the ground is low enough to eliminate the undesired noise but high enough to reduce the losses from being too low to the ground. A BOG is a beverage with higher than desired losses. But if its long enough, pointed in the right direction, and your ground conductivity is accommodating, its less of a trade than the reverse of those items. I have had a few unplanned BOGs that were discovered as "on the ground" because of some supports falling down. I could immediately hear the difference, but they still worked. Would they be usable if that was my only option? Sure. Just not as good as the same wire at 6 - 8 ft. I use 650 - 1000 ft terminated beverages and they are quite amazing. My ground condition is lossy and I don't have much local noise to null out. Its pretty much all atmospheric noise. Ed N1UR _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: BOG height
Paul, the higher the wire, the more output of the antenna, but all other paramters changes as well. I can say definitely that a unidirectional BOG with 270ft works ways better than a beverage with the same size (abt Lambda/2 on 160m) My BOGs have the W7IUV Preamp, works fine. 73! Am 01.08.2019 um 20:10 schrieb Paul Mclaren: Thanks so far, interesting that it doesn’t always work well for everyone. I am working on a compromise here so any result is a bit of a gain. Don’t worry I get the ON the ground part, just looking for practical advice does that mean insulation of the wire touching for the whole run or slightly above and at what point does it no longer be on the ground1 inch, 6 inches? Does it the gain get sharper as the wire height changes? Regards Paul On Thu, 1 Aug 2019 at 19:01, Wes wrote: Doesn't "BOG" mean, Beverage On Ground? If so, isn't the a nswer, "on the ground"? Wes N7WS On 8/1/2019 10:08 AM, Paul Mclaren wrote: Just a ‘simple’ question hopefully - How close to the ground should a BOG be for best/good performance? I am looking for any additional info that I can get to supplement what I have found online already so good on the balun, wire type and termination resistor. My single unterminated beverage I have at the moment was transformational compared to a Wellbrooke loop but the location it is in will soon be 80 new homes so time to look elsewhere. Current plan is a small number (maybe three) BOG antennas switched by a remote relay but distance is limited to 200ft maximum in any direction. Plan is to use the BOGs for 160 but also 80,40 and maybe 30m. Regards Paul MM0ZBH _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: BOG height
Joe, ~200' is what most folks report as being a good BOG length on 160. The close proximity to the earth requires a shorter length due to the reduced VF. http://www.w0btu.com/Beverage_antennas.html#Beverage_On_the_Ground has a little BOG info. But the best source of info can only be found by searching the Topband Archives for those three search terms that I mentioned in an earlier post here today. 73, Mike www.w0btu.com On Thu, Aug 1, 2019, 1:29 PM Joe wrote: > beverages have always fascinated me. But I have never had the property > to have one. > > I might now, BUT, how do you know how long and what direction to lay it > out to maximize signal to the desired direction? > > I assume the longer it is, the higher gain it has and more towards the > ends the lobe is? > > Joe WB9SBD > Sig > The Original Rolling Ball Clock > Idle Tyme > Idle-Tyme.com > http://www.idle-tyme.com > On 8/1/2019 1:01 PM, Wes wrote: > > Doesn't "BOG" mean, Beverage On Ground? If so, isn't the answer, "on > > the ground"? > > > > Wes N7WS > > > > On 8/1/2019 10:08 AM, Paul Mclaren wrote: > >> Just a ‘simple’ question hopefully - How close to the ground should a > >> BOG > >> be for best/good performance? > >> > >> I am looking for any additional info that I can get to supplement what I > >> have found online already so good on the balun, wire type and > >> termination > >> resistor. > >> > >> My single unterminated beverage I have at the moment was > >> transformational > >> compared to a Wellbrooke loop but the location it is in will soon be > >> 80 new > >> homes so time to look elsewhere. Current plan is a small number (maybe > >> three) BOG antennas switched by a remote relay but distance is > >> limited to > >> 200ft maximum in any direction. > >> > >> Plan is to use the BOGs for 160 but also 80,40 and maybe 30m. > >> > >> Regards > >> > >> Paul MM0ZBH > >> _ > >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > >> Reflector > > > > > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > Reflector > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: BOG height
Hi, I don't have room for a 160 meter BOG here.I have been thinking of experimenting some wire on the ground at least for 80, 40, maybe 30 meters. I can only get by deploying at night and rolling them up when I QRT. Anything above toe and ankle height but lower than head height would endanger lives here - even at night. 73, Bill KU8H On 8/1/19 2:18 PM, Mike Waters wrote: Hi Wes, Yes, that's what it means. :-) But at my QTH, a BOG would have to lie on the pasture grass, a couple of inches from the soil. 73, Mike www.w0btu.com On Thu, Aug 1, 2019, 1:01 PM Wes wrote: Doesn't "BOG" mean, Beverage On Ground? If so, isn't the answer, "on the ground"? Wes N7WS _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector -- bark less - wag more _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: BOG height
beverages have always fascinated me. But I have never had the property to have one. I might now, BUT, how do you know how long and what direction to lay it out to maximize signal to the desired direction? I assume the longer it is, the higher gain it has and more towards the ends the lobe is? Joe WB9SBD Sig The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com On 8/1/2019 1:01 PM, Wes wrote: Doesn't "BOG" mean, Beverage On Ground? If so, isn't the answer, "on the ground"? Wes N7WS On 8/1/2019 10:08 AM, Paul Mclaren wrote: Just a ‘simple’ question hopefully - How close to the ground should a BOG be for best/good performance? I am looking for any additional info that I can get to supplement what I have found online already so good on the balun, wire type and termination resistor. My single unterminated beverage I have at the moment was transformational compared to a Wellbrooke loop but the location it is in will soon be 80 new homes so time to look elsewhere. Current plan is a small number (maybe three) BOG antennas switched by a remote relay but distance is limited to 200ft maximum in any direction. Plan is to use the BOGs for 160 but also 80,40 and maybe 30m. Regards Paul MM0ZBH _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: BOG height
On 8/1/2019 12:36 PM, Mark K3MSB wrote: I’ve used BOGs and RBOGs at 200 feet length laying on the ground. The BOG worked great, the RBOG worked good, but not as good as the BOG. I agree with K3MSB's conclusions about BOGs. I have also done a lot of experimenting with reversible BOGs and single direction BOGs. Gain of the RBOG will be less than that of the single direction BOG. Impedance of the ground rod translates into loss for the RBOG but it is only part of the termination resistance for the single direction BOG. The RBOG will also not have the same gain in both directions if you build it like most people do. There is a way to fix this problem and that is to use 2 reflection transformers and feed it in the in middle. The whole length of the wire will be used in both directions and the gain will be the same in both directions. The worst feature of the RBOG at my house is that critters like to chew on the wires. A single wire is a lot easier to repair than RG-6. A BOG is a good antenna but I'm not sure exactly what its RDF number is. NEC doesn't do well for BOGs. I can calculate an RDF of over 11 for a 366 ft BOG using NEC but I'm sure that is NOT correct. When comparing it to another receiving antenna that has an RDF of 11.1, I estimate the BOG is between 9.5 and 10. A BOG is a pretty simple antenna but there are ways to screw it up. The gain is low so you have to be very careful about suppressing common mode currents. And don't aim it at your house and don't run it close to the house. Jerry, K4SAV _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: BOG height
Hi Wes, Yes, that's what it means. :-) But at my QTH, a BOG would have to lie on the pasture grass, a couple of inches from the soil. 73, Mike www.w0btu.com On Thu, Aug 1, 2019, 1:01 PM Wes wrote: > Doesn't "BOG" mean, Beverage On Ground? If so, isn't the answer, "on the > ground"? > > Wes N7WS > > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: BOG height
Hi Wes, That's what I thought too. But what di I know. I also wonder who is buried in Grant's tomb. 73, Bill KU8H On 8/1/19 2:01 PM, Wes wrote: Doesn't "BOG" mean, Beverage On Ground? If so, isn't the answer, "on the ground"? Wes N7WS On 8/1/2019 10:08 AM, Paul Mclaren wrote: Just a ‘simple’ question hopefully - How close to the ground should a BOG be for best/good performance? I am looking for any additional info that I can get to supplement what I have found online already so good on the balun, wire type and termination resistor. My single unterminated beverage I have at the moment was transformational compared to a Wellbrooke loop but the location it is in will soon be 80 new homes so time to look elsewhere. Current plan is a small number (maybe three) BOG antennas switched by a remote relay but distance is limited to 200ft maximum in any direction. Plan is to use the BOGs for 160 but also 80,40 and maybe 30m. Regards Paul MM0ZBH _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector -- bark less - wag more _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: BOG height
Thanks so far, interesting that it doesn’t always work well for everyone. I am working on a compromise here so any result is a bit of a gain. Don’t worry I get the ON the ground part, just looking for practical advice does that mean insulation of the wire touching for the whole run or slightly above and at what point does it no longer be on the ground1 inch, 6 inches? Does it the gain get sharper as the wire height changes? Regards Paul On Thu, 1 Aug 2019 at 19:01, Wes wrote: > Doesn't "BOG" mean, Beverage On Ground? If so, isn't the answer, "on the > ground"? > > Wes N7WS > > On 8/1/2019 10:08 AM, Paul Mclaren wrote: > > Just a ‘simple’ question hopefully - How close to the ground should a BOG > > be for best/good performance? > > > > I am looking for any additional info that I can get to supplement what I > > have found online already so good on the balun, wire type and termination > > resistor. > > > > My single unterminated beverage I have at the moment was transformational > > compared to a Wellbrooke loop but the location it is in will soon be 80 > new > > homes so time to look elsewhere. Current plan is a small number (maybe > > three) BOG antennas switched by a remote relay but distance is limited to > > 200ft maximum in any direction. > > > > Plan is to use the BOGs for 160 but also 80,40 and maybe 30m. > > > > Regards > > > > Paul MM0ZBH > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: BOG height
Doesn't "BOG" mean, Beverage On Ground? If so, isn't the answer, "on the ground"? Wes N7WS On 8/1/2019 10:08 AM, Paul Mclaren wrote: Just a ‘simple’ question hopefully - How close to the ground should a BOG be for best/good performance? I am looking for any additional info that I can get to supplement what I have found online already so good on the balun, wire type and termination resistor. My single unterminated beverage I have at the moment was transformational compared to a Wellbrooke loop but the location it is in will soon be 80 new homes so time to look elsewhere. Current plan is a small number (maybe three) BOG antennas switched by a remote relay but distance is limited to 200ft maximum in any direction. Plan is to use the BOGs for 160 but also 80,40 and maybe 30m. Regards Paul MM0ZBH _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: BOG height
I have very good experiences with terminated BOGs as well. I have three of them. On 160m I can hear from VE6 to VP9, ZS, ZL, VK, UA0, JA. But as mentioned before, you have to try different lengths - some work fine, some doesnt. My east BOG is very good in contrast to my west BOG which is so la la, both have abt 90m. GL, Harry, DH1NBE Am 01.08.2019 um 19:08 schrieb Paul Mclaren: Just a ‘simple’ question hopefully - How close to the ground should a BOG be for best/good performance? I am looking for any additional info that I can get to supplement what I have found online already so good on the balun, wire type and termination resistor. My single unterminated beverage I have at the moment was transformational compared to a Wellbrooke loop but the location it is in will soon be 80 new homes so time to look elsewhere. Current plan is a small number (maybe three) BOG antennas switched by a remote relay but distance is limited to 200ft maximum in any direction. Plan is to use the BOGs for 160 but also 80,40 and maybe 30m. Regards Paul MM0ZBH _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: BOG height
I used 8 foot ground rods for the BOG and 4 foot ground rods for the RBOG. Mark K3MSB On Thu, Aug 1, 2019, 1:36 PM Mark K3MSB wrote: > I’ve used BOGs and RBOGs at 200 feet length laying on the ground. The > BOG worked great, the RBOG worked good, but not as good as the BOG. > > Others tried them in my local area based upon my experiences and said > they didn’t work at all. > > This is typical of people that have used / tried BOGs. > > 73 Mark K3MSB > > > On Thu, Aug 1, 2019, 1:08 PM Paul Mclaren wrote: > >> Just a ‘simple’ question hopefully - How close to the ground should a BOG >> be for best/good performance? >> >> I am looking for any additional info that I can get to supplement what I >> have found online already so good on the balun, wire type and termination >> resistor. >> >> My single unterminated beverage I have at the moment was transformational >> compared to a Wellbrooke loop but the location it is in will soon be 80 >> new >> homes so time to look elsewhere. Current plan is a small number (maybe >> three) BOG antennas switched by a remote relay but distance is limited to >> 200ft maximum in any direction. >> >> Plan is to use the BOGs for 160 but also 80,40 and maybe 30m. >> >> Regards >> >> Paul MM0ZBH >> _ >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband >> Reflector >> > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: BOG height
I’ve used BOGs and RBOGs at 200 feet length laying on the ground. The BOG worked great, the RBOG worked good, but not as good as the BOG. Others tried them in my local area based upon my experiences and said they didn’t work at all. This is typical of people that have used / tried BOGs. 73 Mark K3MSB On Thu, Aug 1, 2019, 1:08 PM Paul Mclaren wrote: > Just a ‘simple’ question hopefully - How close to the ground should a BOG > be for best/good performance? > > I am looking for any additional info that I can get to supplement what I > have found online already so good on the balun, wire type and termination > resistor. > > My single unterminated beverage I have at the moment was transformational > compared to a Wellbrooke loop but the location it is in will soon be 80 new > homes so time to look elsewhere. Current plan is a small number (maybe > three) BOG antennas switched by a remote relay but distance is limited to > 200ft maximum in any direction. > > Plan is to use the BOGs for 160 but also 80,40 and maybe 30m. > > Regards > > Paul MM0ZBH > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: BOG height
Some folks don't have room for a 580' Beverage. BOGs are easy to install, but I have never heard of anyone who raved about their performance. :-) How long was your BOG, what type of ground was it over, and how high was it? If you search the archives for the three keywords K2AV BOG DOG, there is excellent information there about this not available anywhere else. 73, Mike www.w0btu.com On Thu, Aug 1, 2019, 12:23 PM Chuck Dietz wrote: > When I tried a BOG compared to a Beverage, I found the BOG to be almost > useless compared to the Beverage. I would put up one of the arrays K9AY, > SAL-30, 4sq rec, etc. > I don't think you will be happy with a BOG after using a Beverage. > > Chuck W5PR > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: BOG height
Chuck, I don’t have any directivity at the moment so I am hoping that I will gain that over the current situation. Time will tell I suppose. I can really do anything too visible like a K9AY etc as it isn’t my land just a space borrowed over the quieter months. Regards Paul MM0ZBH On Thu, 1 Aug 2019 at 18:23, Chuck Dietz wrote: > When I tried a BOG compared to a Beverage, I found the BOG to be almost > useless compared to the Beverage. I would put up one of the arrays K9AY, > SAL-30, 4sq rec, etc. > I don't think you will be happy with a BOG after using a Beverage. > > Chuck W5PR > > On Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 12:08 PM Paul Mclaren wrote: > >> Just a ‘simple’ question hopefully - How close to the ground should a BOG >> be for best/good performance? >> >> I am looking for any additional info that I can get to supplement what I >> have found online already so good on the balun, wire type and termination >> resistor. >> >> My single unterminated beverage I have at the moment was transformational >> compared to a Wellbrooke loop but the location it is in will soon be 80 >> new >> homes so time to look elsewhere. Current plan is a small number (maybe >> three) BOG antennas switched by a remote relay but distance is limited to >> 200ft maximum in any direction. >> >> Plan is to use the BOGs for 160 but also 80,40 and maybe 30m. >> >> Regards >> >> Paul MM0ZBH >> _ >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband >> Reflector >> > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: BOG height
It's hard to beat the Hi-Z arrays when you have limited space.. 73, John, W4NU On 8/1/2019 1:23 PM, Chuck Dietz wrote: When I tried a BOG compared to a Beverage, I found the BOG to be almost useless compared to the Beverage. I would put up one of the arrays K9AY, SAL-30, 4sq rec, etc. I don't think you will be happy with a BOG after using a Beverage. Chuck W5PR On Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 12:08 PM Paul Mclaren wrote: Just a ???simple??? question hopefully - How close to the ground should a BOG be for best/good performance? I am looking for any additional info that I can get to supplement what I have found online already so good on the balun, wire type and termination resistor. My single unterminated beverage I have at the moment was transformational compared to a Wellbrooke loop but the location it is in will soon be 80 new homes so time to look elsewhere. Current plan is a small number (maybe three) BOG antennas switched by a remote relay but distance is limited to 200ft maximum in any direction. Plan is to use the BOGs for 160 but also 80,40 and maybe 30m. Regards Paul MM0ZBH _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: BOG height
When I tried a BOG compared to a Beverage, I found the BOG to be almost useless compared to the Beverage. I would put up one of the arrays K9AY, SAL-30, 4sq rec, etc. I don't think you will be happy with a BOG after using a Beverage. Chuck W5PR On Thu, Aug 1, 2019 at 12:08 PM Paul Mclaren wrote: > Just a ‘simple’ question hopefully - How close to the ground should a BOG > be for best/good performance? > > I am looking for any additional info that I can get to supplement what I > have found online already so good on the balun, wire type and termination > resistor. > > My single unterminated beverage I have at the moment was transformational > compared to a Wellbrooke loop but the location it is in will soon be 80 new > homes so time to look elsewhere. Current plan is a small number (maybe > three) BOG antennas switched by a remote relay but distance is limited to > 200ft maximum in any direction. > > Plan is to use the BOGs for 160 but also 80,40 and maybe 30m. > > Regards > > Paul MM0ZBH > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
