Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning
I find that my 600 to 1000 ft terminated beverages are quite capable. Clearly, if someone doesn't the room, then other options need to be explored. But the front to back ratio and SNR of my 1000 ft beverage to Europe is nothing short of amazing when it comes to hearing. Even with 1.5kW on 80 and 160M, I sometimes hear surprise in the voice of the EU station calling me that I can actually hear them Q5. Ed N1UR _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning
Guys Some concepts really belong to the last century, a beverage antenna is very inefficient for moderns days. Ground wave noise is very high everywhere and it is vertical polarized, any vertical polarized RX antenna will hear man made noise very well. The only really way to increase signal to noise ratio is directivity, front back actually just work on the opposite way , when you optimize front back the directivity is impacted and you increase the noise coming from the front lobe, where the DX signal is coming from. A pair of flags, or EWE's, K9AY or DHDL's, all of them are loaded loops can reach very high RDF in only 50m. You need 150 m to do what a flag can do in 5m. If you are not convinced just look again what NX4D and myself did in the last 10 years. Doug worked 311 on 160m and I am at 298, but I heard 312 countries on 160m form a city lot, my back yard is 30m x 50m, and most of them worked listening with a pair of horizontal phased loops that I call HWF. Today there are over 50 station around the world enjoying the same kind of results with HWF. My webinars on WWROF have all you need to know for a jump start. https://wwrof.org/webinar-archive/n4is-waller-flag-construction/ https://wwrof.org/webinar-archive/high-performance-rx-antennas-for-a-small-lot/ Noise is up! Common mode noise and integration between RX ant TX antennas on the same polarization is a must know concept to fight noise, and work DX on any band. 160 80 and 40 is a way to go nowadays with this deep solar activity season. You don’t need to move into the woods, efficient low band station on a city lot is a real possibility. Land is not growing and it is very expensive, noise is growing exponential. Know and believe are different things. My friend PP5JR just detuned his inverted L and his ground noise dropped 4 s units on his HWF. Now he believes what he knows for years. John K9UWA detuned all his towers on 160m and now he can say the same. Do it and believe it yourself. Regards JC N4IS _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning
Good point Rick. But that zoomes-out the topic. What priorities does Ash' beverage need to cover, like: lowering local noise (groundwave) lowering incoming skywave noise; QRN and/or QRM the need to 'enable another layer of QSO contacts' etc. etc. Ash: I am sure you have already read some general info on RX antennas? If not already, please check CTU website for the great presentation by W3LPL: https://www.contestuniversity.com/files/ Then there is The Great Book LowBand DX'ing by ON4UN However, and this goes for all Lowband ops, experienced or not, throwing a topnotch RX antenna out on your QTH does not provide instant maximal efficiency. It might not be the best choice of antenna type, location or the way it is best set-up and/or adjusted in your environment. Can you make the right choices (or better experiment ot find out) if you're a City Dweller, where many of the knowledge takes different turns and you have to fight for every dB progress at s/n ? Soo many questions, even more answers Using seperate RX antennas is a (great) journey in our hobby where you learn by doing. You will have to find out what and how it works out best for you. 73 Mark, PA5MW On 06/07/2018 19:35, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote: On 7/4/2018 8:09 AM, pa...@home.nl wrote: Groundwave BC signals arrive at 0 degrees; you want to adjust FB at incoming skywave (10< >50 degrees) signals instead What reference you should use depends on your QTH and the first wave of incoming (Europe?) QRM I would like to respectfully disagree, at least for my QTH. What I find is that my noise is dominated by local ground wave sources. I want a null at the horizon=ground wave. I don't see background noise vary much between day and night. Especially on vertically polarized antennas. Rick N6RK _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning
On 7/4/2018 8:09 AM, pa...@home.nl wrote: Groundwave BC signals arrive at 0 degrees; you want to adjust FB at incoming skywave (10< >50 degrees) signals instead What reference you should use depends on your QTH and the first wave of incoming (Europe?) QRM I would like to respectfully disagree, at least for my QTH. What I find is that my noise is dominated by local ground wave sources. I want a null at the horizon=ground wave. I don't see background noise vary much between day and night. Especially on vertically polarized antennas. Rick N6RK _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning
Hi Ash, Hello All, As a long time Beverage user, I can definitely say that the performance can be enhanced by having good ground at the termination resistor end of a beverage. Operating from Aruba in a CQ160CW contest, W8UVZ, KD9SV and I put out a proper 470 ohm non inductive resistor on the end of a 560 foot long beverage, and in addition to the ground rod, fanned out about 8 radials each about 17 feet (5 meters) long beyond the end of the beverage antenna wire. I will also state that putting a Hi-Pass filter in series with the coaxial cable at the receiving end in the radio room was a big help. I lived 1/2 mile from an AM 930 station that made it impossible to make measurements with an SWR bridge in a receiving mode. The only way I could evaluate my RX antennas was to transmit 2 - 3 watts into the beverage and use a low power SWR bridge to look at the forward & reflected power, which worked very well for me. My typical SWR on 160 meters was 1.5:1 from 1800 to 1915, and I considered that good enough. I did not worry about the SWR on 80 or 75 meters, but found good receiving advantages compared to my transmitting antenna most of the time. 73, Good luck, George, K8GG > At 14:33 2018-07-06, Ashraf Chaabane wrote: >>Hi Mark, Peter, >> >>The BC station to be used to minimize the back lobe would be in >>Egypt or Saoudi Arabia right on the back of my beverage antenna. >>That should offer signals coming well above 10deg (I presume!). >>Comment noted regarding how efficient that will be on 1820 kHz. I >>know Egypt has BC station on Medium Wave which isn't that far from 160m. >> >>Frank, >> >>I have two 3-feets rods at each end so far with two buried radials >>at the feed end. I will add radials at the termination side as well >>as you recommend. >> >>For the sake of experimentation, I will play a bit with the >>termination resistor trying to flatten the SWR curve as much as >>possible, although, as many said, I shouldn't expect a noticeable >>improvement in reception. >> >>Thank you all and those who wrote me in private. This generous >>technical support is needed for developing experience on 160 among >>3V hams (mostly youngsters). I hope we will be ready with strong >>100W signals this winter! >> >>73 from Tunisia >> >>Ash 3V8SS/KF5EYY >>www.kf5eyy.info >> >> >> >>-- Original Message -- >>From: donov...@starpower.net >>To: topband@contesting.com >>Cc: "Ashraf Chaabane" >>Sent: 04/07/2018 19:00:33 >>Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning >> >>>Hello Ash, >>> >>>Your results are normal for a typical Beverage. Receiving performance >>>is not significantly degraded by imperfect matching of the coaxial >>> feedline >>>to the Beverage feed point or by non-optimum termination resistance. >>>You could optimize your matching transformer and termination resistor >>>but the improvement in receiving performance will be very minor. >>> >>>On the other hand, Beverage antenna receiving performance can be >>>significantly degraded by: >>> - nearby antennas, power lines and other long conductors, and >>> - common mode signals coupled into the feedline >>> >>>You could optimize your matching transformer to reduce the VSWR to >>>closer to 1:1 on the frequencies you care about most, but you won't >>>notice any improvement in receiving performance. >>> >>>You could optimize your Beverage termination by: >>>- adding extra ground rods and/or short radials to improve >>> ground resistance >>> stability at the connection to termination resistor. >>>- adjusting the termination resistance to minimize the VSWR >>> excursion >>> as you sweep from 1.5 to about 10 MHz >>> >>>73 >>>Frank >>>W3LPL >>> >>> >>>From: "Ashraf Chaabane" >>>To: topband@contesting.com >>>Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2018 2:13:27 PM >>>Subject: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning >>> >>>Hi All >>> >>>I measured the SWR in my beverage antenna; the SWR fluctuates between >>> 1.5 >>>and 3 in a range of 1.8 to 7 MHz. (See: >>>https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9AtNpPfAOUMRDNsaXROMG1VUTg?usp=sharing >>>) >>>I know SWR should not vary too much. However, some people are suggesting >>>adjusting the termination resistor. Others suggest checking the >>> transformer >>>number of windings for a good match. What shall I do? >>> >>>73 Ash 3V8SS/KF5EYY >>>_ >>>Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband >>_ >>Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > > Nick Hall-Patch > Victoria, BC > Canada > > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning
Hi Ash, I see that you are evaluating your Beverage antenna by using SWR. Have you actually adjusted the termination resistance to null medium-wave broadcasters located off the back end of the antenna? If so, what was the value of that termination resistance? If not, it might be worthwhile to make that adjustment in order to understand better your antenna. As others have pointed out however, the Beverage will work well without optimizing its termination, but it sounds as if you would like to understand its operation more clearly. If your ground conductivity is very poor, much of your termination resistance will be made up of the resistance between the ground rod(s) and the earth, and that resistance can be substantial when using short ground rods in poorly conductive ground. Perhaps only a small value of termination resistor will actually be needed, even though the impedance of the antenna is around 500 ohms. And, that termination resistance will possibly vary with the season of the year. I have had to use zero ohms termination at one site, as that provided the best null for a medium-wave broadcast signal off the back end of the Beverage antenna. Perhaps the resistance to earth at that site was even in excess of 500 ohms, so I would have needed to create a better system of ground rods to improve the null further. I imagine the SWR of that antenna varied quite a lot with frequency. The Saudi and Egyptian broadcasters that you will use for nulling are quite powerful I believe, so I hope that they do not suffer from short term fading at night that can make a null difficult to find. best of luck with this project, Nick VE7DXR At 14:33 2018-07-06, Ashraf Chaabane wrote: Hi Mark, Peter, The BC station to be used to minimize the back lobe would be in Egypt or Saoudi Arabia right on the back of my beverage antenna. That should offer signals coming well above 10deg (I presume!). Comment noted regarding how efficient that will be on 1820 kHz. I know Egypt has BC station on Medium Wave which isn't that far from 160m. Frank, I have two 3-feets rods at each end so far with two buried radials at the feed end. I will add radials at the termination side as well as you recommend. For the sake of experimentation, I will play a bit with the termination resistor trying to flatten the SWR curve as much as possible, although, as many said, I shouldn't expect a noticeable improvement in reception. Thank you all and those who wrote me in private. This generous technical support is needed for developing experience on 160 among 3V hams (mostly youngsters). I hope we will be ready with strong 100W signals this winter! 73 from Tunisia Ash 3V8SS/KF5EYY www.kf5eyy.info -- Original Message -- From: donov...@starpower.net To: topband@contesting.com Cc: "Ashraf Chaabane" Sent: 04/07/2018 19:00:33 Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning Hello Ash, Your results are normal for a typical Beverage. Receiving performance is not significantly degraded by imperfect matching of the coaxial feedline to the Beverage feed point or by non-optimum termination resistance. You could optimize your matching transformer and termination resistor but the improvement in receiving performance will be very minor. On the other hand, Beverage antenna receiving performance can be significantly degraded by: - nearby antennas, power lines and other long conductors, and - common mode signals coupled into the feedline You could optimize your matching transformer to reduce the VSWR to closer to 1:1 on the frequencies you care about most, but you won't notice any improvement in receiving performance. You could optimize your Beverage termination by: - adding extra ground rods and/or short radials to improve ground resistance stability at the connection to termination resistor. - adjusting the termination resistance to minimize the VSWR excursion as you sweep from 1.5 to about 10 MHz 73 Frank W3LPL From: "Ashraf Chaabane" To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2018 2:13:27 PM Subject: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning Hi All I measured the SWR in my beverage antenna; the SWR fluctuates between 1.5 and 3 in a range of 1.8 to 7 MHz. (See: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9AtNpPfAOUMRDNsaXROMG1VUTg?usp=sharing ) I know SWR should not vary too much. However, some people are suggesting adjusting the termination resistor. Others suggest checking the transformer number of windings for a good match. What shall I do? 73 Ash 3V8SS/KF5EYY _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband Nick Hall-Patch Victoria, BC Canada _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning
Hi Mark, Peter, The BC station to be used to minimize the back lobe would be in Egypt or Saoudi Arabia right on the back of my beverage antenna. That should offer signals coming well above 10deg (I presume!). Comment noted regarding how efficient that will be on 1820 kHz. I know Egypt has BC station on Medium Wave which isn't that far from 160m. Frank, I have two 3-feets rods at each end so far with two buried radials at the feed end. I will add radials at the termination side as well as you recommend. For the sake of experimentation, I will play a bit with the termination resistor trying to flatten the SWR curve as much as possible, although, as many said, I shouldn't expect a noticeable improvement in reception. Thank you all and those who wrote me in private. This generous technical support is needed for developing experience on 160 among 3V hams (mostly youngsters). I hope we will be ready with strong 100W signals this winter! 73 from Tunisia Ash 3V8SS/KF5EYY www.kf5eyy.info -- Original Message -- From: donov...@starpower.net To: topband@contesting.com Cc: "Ashraf Chaabane" Sent: 04/07/2018 19:00:33 Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning Hello Ash, Your results are normal for a typical Beverage. Receiving performance is not significantly degraded by imperfect matching of the coaxial feedline to the Beverage feed point or by non-optimum termination resistance. You could optimize your matching transformer and termination resistor but the improvement in receiving performance will be very minor. On the other hand, Beverage antenna receiving performance can be significantly degraded by: - nearby antennas, power lines and other long conductors, and - common mode signals coupled into the feedline You could optimize your matching transformer to reduce the VSWR to closer to 1:1 on the frequencies you care about most, but you won't notice any improvement in receiving performance. You could optimize your Beverage termination by: - adding extra ground rods and/or short radials to improve ground resistance stability at the connection to termination resistor. - adjusting the termination resistance to minimize the VSWR excursion as you sweep from 1.5 to about 10 MHz 73 Frank W3LPL From: "Ashraf Chaabane" To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2018 2:13:27 PM Subject: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning Hi All I measured the SWR in my beverage antenna; the SWR fluctuates between 1.5 and 3 in a range of 1.8 to 7 MHz. (See: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9AtNpPfAOUMRDNsaXROMG1VUTg?usp=sharing ) I know SWR should not vary too much. However, some people are suggesting adjusting the termination resistor. Others suggest checking the transformer number of windings for a good match. What shall I do? 73 Ash 3V8SS/KF5EYY _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning
I guess Ashraf wants the BC signal just to optimize for f/b, so no local signal or interference. SWR is irrelevant with a beverage, everything below 3 will be OK and it does its job with higher SWR as well. 73 Peter, DJ7WW -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of pa...@home.nl Sent: Mittwoch, 4. Juli 2018 21:56 To: 'Ashraf Chaabane' Cc: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning Another question might be; how close by is this BC station or any other AM BCB stations? Please consider a HP BC stopfilter 73 Mark, PA5MW -Original Message- From: Topband On Behalf Of Ashraf Chaabane Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2018 4:40 PM To: pa...@home.nl Cc: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning Mark, I'm planning to have the termination value adjustment excercice for F/B maximisation using a BC station signal. However, does SWR measurement have to do also with the termination value? Or that's rather the matching transformer that I should act on? I now have an antenna analyzer and multimeter. What kind of optimization I can carry out? (The beverage is permanently installed). 73 Ash On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 3:23 PM wrote: > Based on my field installed beverages experience, I would say this is > exactly what I always read on my ant analyzer. > Ground and local air/bush moisture level changes, like after rain or > such, will affect readings too. > > I would do optimization only if this installation was permanent and > you have the time and tools available. > > 73 Mark, PA5MW > > > > -Original Message- > From: Topband On Behalf Of Ashraf > Chaabane > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2018 4:13 PM > To: topband@contesting.com > Subject: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning > > Hi All > > I measured the SWR in my beverage antenna; the SWR fluctuates between > 1.5 and 3 in a range of 1.8 to 7 MHz. (See: > > https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9AtNpPfAOUMRDNsaXROMG1VUTg?us > p=shar > ing > ) > I know SWR should not vary too much. However, some people are > suggesting adjusting the termination resistor. Others suggest checking > the transformer number of windings for a good match. What shall I do? > > 73 Ash 3V8SS/KF5EYY > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > > -- Ash ~ 3V8SS/KF5EYY http://www.kf5eyy.info/ Phone/SMS/Whatsapp: (+216) 22670026 Skype: kf5eyy _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning
Another question might be; how close by is this BC station or any other AM BCB stations? Please consider a HP BC stopfilter 73 Mark, PA5MW -Original Message- From: Topband On Behalf Of Ashraf Chaabane Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2018 4:40 PM To: pa...@home.nl Cc: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning Mark, I'm planning to have the termination value adjustment excercice for F/B maximisation using a BC station signal. However, does SWR measurement have to do also with the termination value? Or that's rather the matching transformer that I should act on? I now have an antenna analyzer and multimeter. What kind of optimization I can carry out? (The beverage is permanently installed). 73 Ash On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 3:23 PM wrote: > Based on my field installed beverages experience, I would say this is > exactly what I always read on my ant analyzer. > Ground and local air/bush moisture level changes, like after rain or > such, will affect readings too. > > I would do optimization only if this installation was permanent and > you have the time and tools available. > > 73 Mark, PA5MW > > > > -Original Message- > From: Topband On Behalf Of Ashraf > Chaabane > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2018 4:13 PM > To: topband@contesting.com > Subject: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning > > Hi All > > I measured the SWR in my beverage antenna; the SWR fluctuates between > 1.5 and 3 in a range of 1.8 to 7 MHz. (See: > > https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9AtNpPfAOUMRDNsaXROMG1VUTg?us > p=shar > ing > ) > I know SWR should not vary too much. However, some people are > suggesting adjusting the termination resistor. Others suggest checking > the transformer number of windings for a good match. What shall I do? > > 73 Ash 3V8SS/KF5EYY > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > > -- Ash ~ 3V8SS/KF5EYY http://www.kf5eyy.info/ Phone/SMS/Whatsapp: (+216) 22670026 Skype: kf5eyy _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning
Hello Ash, Your results are normal for a typical Beverage. Receiving performance is not significantly degraded by imperfect matching of the coaxial feedline to the Beverage feed point or by non-optimum termination resistance. You could optimize your matching transformer and termination resistor but the improvement in receiving performance will be very minor. On the other hand, Beverage antenna r eceiving performance can be significantly degraded by: - nearby antennas, power lines and other long conductors, and - common mode signals coupled into the feedline You could optimize your matching transformer to reduce the VSWR to closer to 1:1 on the frequencies you care about most, but you won't notice any improvement in receiving performance. You could optimize your Beverage termination by: - adding extra ground rods and/or short radials to improve ground resistance stability at the connection to termination resistor. - adjusting the termination resistance to minimize the VSWR excursion as you sweep from 1.5 to about 10 MHz 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: "Ashraf Chaabane" To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2018 2:13:27 PM Subject: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning Hi All I measured the SWR in my beverage antenna; the SWR fluctuates between 1.5 and 3 in a range of 1.8 to 7 MHz. (See: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9AtNpPfAOUMRDNsaXROMG1VUTg?usp=sharing ) I know SWR should not vary too much. However, some people are suggesting adjusting the termination resistor. Others suggest checking the transformer number of windings for a good match. What shall I do? 73 Ash 3V8SS/KF5EYY _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning
Hello Ash! For a broadband RX antenna, that match looks good. Exactly what I see with my AIM analyzer when looking at my BOGs. Don't mess with it. 73 Lloyd - N9LB -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Ashraf Chaabane Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2018 9:13 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning Hi All I measured the SWR in my beverage antenna; the SWR fluctuates between 1.5 and 3 in a range of 1.8 to 7 MHz. (See: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9AtNpPfAOUMRDNsaXROMG1VUTg?usp=shar ing ) I know SWR should not vary too much. However, some people are suggesting adjusting the termination resistor. Others suggest checking the transformer number of windings for a good match. What shall I do? 73 Ash 3V8SS/KF5EYY _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning
Hi Ash, Some info: - SWR curve median will always slowly rise. No action; this has to do with parameters which slowly affect at higher freq. That is rather irrelevant on the lowbands 160-80-40 - Termination +matching adjustment is optimal at 'minimal amplitude' of the SWR curve Meaning; the waves must be 'as small as possible'. It might never be flat, I have never ben able to get there. Maybe others can give better advice here. But does it matter when not SWR 1? No. - Matching optimal beverage impedance to coax Like when all is set optimal but the whole beverage antenna is not 450 Ohms but 530 ==> stick with the 9:1 Or, at a BOG where installation is near ground, impedance is abt 220 Ohms ==> stick with 4:1 A better matching is possible by altering the transformer windings. But again, does it matter? Can you make more QSO's? I have not seen/read any proof on this yet. Please also note: Local environment, as well as length/install- height of beverage wire will determin the 3D pattern Local ground/air humidity will change performance slightly Adjusting F/B to local BC signal can be distracting because: BC freq is out of band and a good F/B at <1600kHz does not mean it is now optimal at 1830kHz as well.. Groundwave BC signals arrive at 0 degrees; you want to adjust FB at incoming skywave (10< >50 degrees) signals instead What reference you should use depends on your QTH and the first wave of incoming (Europe?) QRM I hope others, with more experience on this subject will have a better answer here. In general, my experience is a beverage antenna will work rather quickly and perform well. There is just no bad-adjustment possible. 73 Mark, PA5MW -Original Message- From: Topband On Behalf Of Ashraf Chaabane Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2018 4:40 PM To: pa...@home.nl Cc: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning Mark, I'm planning to have the termination value adjustment excercice for F/B maximisation using a BC station signal. However, does SWR measurement have to do also with the termination value? Or that's rather the matching transformer that I should act on? I now have an antenna analyzer and multimeter. What kind of optimization I can carry out? (The beverage is permanently installed). 73 Ash On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 3:23 PM wrote: > Based on my field installed beverages experience, I would say this is > exactly what I always read on my ant analyzer. > Ground and local air/bush moisture level changes, like after rain or > such, will affect readings too. > > I would do optimization only if this installation was permanent and > you have the time and tools available. > > 73 Mark, PA5MW > > > > -Original Message- > From: Topband On Behalf Of Ashraf > Chaabane > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2018 4:13 PM > To: topband@contesting.com > Subject: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning > > Hi All > > I measured the SWR in my beverage antenna; the SWR fluctuates between > 1.5 and 3 in a range of 1.8 to 7 MHz. (See: > > https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9AtNpPfAOUMRDNsaXROMG1VUTg?us > p=shar > ing > ) > I know SWR should not vary too much. However, some people are > suggesting adjusting the termination resistor. Others suggest checking > the transformer number of windings for a good match. What shall I do? > > 73 Ash 3V8SS/KF5EYY > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > > -- Ash ~ 3V8SS/KF5EYY http://www.kf5eyy.info/ Phone/SMS/Whatsapp: (+216) 22670026 Skype: kf5eyy _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning
Mark, I'm planning to have the termination value adjustment excercice for F/B maximisation using a BC station signal. However, does SWR measurement have to do also with the termination value? Or that's rather the matching transformer that I should act on? I now have an antenna analyzer and multimeter. What kind of optimization I can carry out? (The beverage is permanently installed). 73 Ash On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 3:23 PM wrote: > Based on my field installed beverages experience, I would say this is > exactly what I always read on my ant analyzer. > Ground and local air/bush moisture level changes, like after rain or such, > will affect readings too. > > I would do optimization only if this installation was permanent and you > have > the time and tools available. > > 73 Mark, PA5MW > > > > -Original Message- > From: Topband On Behalf Of Ashraf > Chaabane > Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2018 4:13 PM > To: topband@contesting.com > Subject: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning > > Hi All > > I measured the SWR in my beverage antenna; the SWR fluctuates between 1.5 > and 3 in a range of 1.8 to 7 MHz. (See: > > https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9AtNpPfAOUMRDNsaXROMG1VUTg?usp=shar > ing > ) > I know SWR should not vary too much. However, some people are suggesting > adjusting the termination resistor. Others suggest checking the transformer > number of windings for a good match. What shall I do? > > 73 Ash 3V8SS/KF5EYY > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > > -- Ash ~ 3V8SS/KF5EYY http://www.kf5eyy.info/ Phone/SMS/Whatsapp: (+216) 22670026 Skype: kf5eyy _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning
Based on my field installed beverages experience, I would say this is exactly what I always read on my ant analyzer. Ground and local air/bush moisture level changes, like after rain or such, will affect readings too. I would do optimization only if this installation was permanent and you have the time and tools available. 73 Mark, PA5MW -Original Message- From: Topband On Behalf Of Ashraf Chaabane Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2018 4:13 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning Hi All I measured the SWR in my beverage antenna; the SWR fluctuates between 1.5 and 3 in a range of 1.8 to 7 MHz. (See: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9AtNpPfAOUMRDNsaXROMG1VUTg?usp=shar ing ) I know SWR should not vary too much. However, some people are suggesting adjusting the termination resistor. Others suggest checking the transformer number of windings for a good match. What shall I do? 73 Ash 3V8SS/KF5EYY _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna Tuning
> What shall I do? Nothing? What you measure should have no practical impact on performance. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2018-07-04 10:13 AM, Ashraf Chaabane wrote: Hi All I measured the SWR in my beverage antenna; the SWR fluctuates between 1.5 and 3 in a range of 1.8 to 7 MHz. (See: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9AtNpPfAOUMRDNsaXROMG1VUTg?usp=sharing ) I know SWR should not vary too much. However, some people are suggesting adjusting the termination resistor. Others suggest checking the transformer number of windings for a good match. What shall I do? 73 Ash 3V8SS/KF5EYY _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Beverage antenna in woods.
Hi Bruce, My temporary 8-circle vertical array re-installed every fall/winter season on a borrowed 4 acre farm field 1200 feet south of the full size transmit 4-square provides lots of exercise too! :) Lots more fun than exercise machines. I know, its not a Beverage... But it definitely is an amazing receiving antenna I still have a few 580 foot Beverage backup antennas. You can never have too many antennas 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: k...@myfairpoint.net To: Topband topband@contesting.com Sent: Wednesday, November 5, 2014 3:37:32 PM Subject: Topband: Beverage antenna in woods. Here in mid-coast Maine, the big wet snow storm is starting to melt. The East Beverage was not hearing 4T4TA well, and an inspection found breaks and multiple large branches on the wire. Two support poles were also down under very large branches. Large branches here can have the diameter of trees of some localities. Sliding wire schemes are good, but when a support pole gets slammed on both side of an insulator at the same time, it does not always work. Beverages in the woods can help us old guys get the exercise we need. (; )) 73 Bruce-K1FZ www.qsl.net/k1fz/pennantnotes.html _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations
There are plenty of Allen Bradley 1w real carbon composition resistors on ebay at prices ranging from $0.25 ea to absurdium. Buy some that you can series/parellel to get the value you want. If it doesn't say A-B on the packaging, squash one in your vice. I've found wire-wounds inside some (likely Chinese) look-a-like claimed carbon comps, after tests made no sense. These are tough non-inductive resistors, but values may have drifted a bit with age. Grant KZ1W On 9/24/2013 7:46 PM, Bruce wrote: They were supposed to be non-inductive carbon, but need to find something better like carbon film. - Original Message - From: Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com To: Bruce k...@myfairpoint.net; topband@contesting.com Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 2:55 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations What kind of resistors are you using? They shouldn't do that if you use the right type. - Original Message - From: Bruce k...@myfairpoint.net To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 8:50 PM Subject: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations After recent night time thunder storm activity, two Beverage antennas lost some directivity. Termination resistors looked normal, but an ohmmeter checked reviled they had each gone hundreds of ohms higher. Replaced resistors and back to normal. 73 Bruce-K1FZ www.qsl.net/k1fz/bogantennanotes/index.html _ Topband Reflector - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4117 / Virus Database: 3604/6694 - Release Date: 09/24/13 _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations
What kind of resistors are you using? They shouldn't do that if you use the right type. - Original Message - From: Bruce k...@myfairpoint.net To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 8:50 PM Subject: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations After recent night time thunder storm activity, two Beverage antennas lost some directivity. Termination resistors looked normal, but an ohmmeter checked reviled they had each gone hundreds of ohms higher. Replaced resistors and back to normal. 73 Bruce-K1FZ www.qsl.net/k1fz/bogantennanotes/index.html _ Topband Reflector - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4117 / Virus Database: 3604/6694 - Release Date: 09/24/13 _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations
They were supposed to be non-inductive carbon, but need to find something better like carbon film. - Original Message - From: Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com To: Bruce k...@myfairpoint.net; topband@contesting.com Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 2:55 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations What kind of resistors are you using? They shouldn't do that if you use the right type. - Original Message - From: Bruce k...@myfairpoint.net To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 8:50 PM Subject: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations After recent night time thunder storm activity, two Beverage antennas lost some directivity. Termination resistors looked normal, but an ohmmeter checked reviled they had each gone hundreds of ohms higher. Replaced resistors and back to normal. 73 Bruce-K1FZ www.qsl.net/k1fz/bogantennanotes/index.html _ Topband Reflector - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4117 / Virus Database: 3604/6694 - Release Date: 09/24/13 _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations
Look at the Ohmite OX and OY series of resistors; they are pretty rugged under surge conditions and, as best I can measure, they are claimed to be non-inductive at HF. 73, geo - n4ua On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 10:46 PM, Bruce k...@myfairpoint.net wrote: They were supposed to be non-inductive carbon, but need to find something better like carbon film. - Original Message - From: Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com To: Bruce k...@myfairpoint.net; topband@contesting.com Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 2:55 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations What kind of resistors are you using? They shouldn't do that if you use the right type. - Original Message - From: Bruce k...@myfairpoint.net To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 8:50 PM Subject: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations After recent night time thunder storm activity, two Beverage antennas lost some directivity. Termination resistors looked normal, but an ohmmeter checked reviled they had each gone hundreds of ohms higher. Replaced resistors and back to normal. 73 Bruce-K1FZ www.qsl.net/k1fz/**bogantennanotes/index.htmlhttp://www.qsl.net/k1fz/bogantennanotes/index.html _ Topband Reflector - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4117 / Virus Database: 3604/6694 - Release Date: 09/24/13 _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations
They were supposed to be non-inductive carbon, but need to find something better like carbon film. Any resistor except a big wire wound is non-inductive on a low frequency like 160. What you want is a composition type resistor, either metal or carbon, to handle surges without changing value. The last thing you want is a film resistor, which is what you probably have right now. Carbon films or metal films increase in value after short duration high energy surges, because the surge blows part of the film layer away. _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations
On 9/24/2013 6:05 PM, Tom W8JI wrote: They were supposed to be non-inductive carbon, but need to find something better like carbon film. Any resistor except a big wire wound is non-inductive on a low frequency like 160. What you want is a composition type resistor, either metal or carbon, to handle surges without changing value. The last thing you want is a film resistor, which is what you probably have right now. Carbon films or metal films increase in value after short duration high energy surges, because the surge blows part of the film layer away. Bruce, If you have any trouble finding the carbon composition resistors that Tom is recommending, Ohmite's OX/OY Series Ceramic Composition resistors are surge rated and readily available from various electronics distributors (i.e. Mouser, Digi-Key, etc): www.ohmite.com/cat/res_ox_oy.pdf 73, Mike W4EF.. _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations
Here you go: www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ohmite/OY471KE I have never lost one of those to a nearby strike. 73, Mike www.w0btu.com _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations
Bruce I lost several resistors on my WF until I started to use NTE 3 W Metal on the vertical Waller Flag and on the Horizontal WF I am using an array of 9 parallel/series. http://www.nteinc.com/resistor_web/pdf/threew.pdf Since that I never replaced it a single time in the last 4 years. The resistor has very low inductance but it is hard to find it, average price is near U$1. http://www.sourceresearch.com/store1/quickstore.cfm?ProductID=48700do=detai l Regards JCarlos N4IS -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 10:46 PM To: Tom W8JI; topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations They were supposed to be non-inductive carbon, but need to find something better like carbon film. - Original Message - From: Tom W8JI w...@w8ji.com To: Bruce k...@myfairpoint.net; topband@contesting.com Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 2:55 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations What kind of resistors are you using? They shouldn't do that if you use the right type. - Original Message - From: Bruce k...@myfairpoint.net To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 8:50 PM Subject: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations After recent night time thunder storm activity, two Beverage antennas lost some directivity. Termination resistors looked normal, but an ohmmeter checked reviled they had each gone hundreds of ohms higher. Replaced resistors and back to normal. 73 Bruce-K1FZ www.qsl.net/k1fz/bogantennanotes/index.html _ Topband Reflector - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4117 / Virus Database: 3604/6694 - Release Date: 09/24/13 _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations
Cut one open and look at it. You can tell right away what they are. - Original Message - From: Bruce k...@myfairpoint.net To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 12:40 AM Subject: Topband: Beverage antenna terminations Thanks for all the termination resistor replies. Will look for Ohmite OX and OY series resistors. The resistors I had were supposed to be Carbon composition, but must not have been. Will discard remaining ones. Thanks again, 73 Bruce-K1FZ _ Topband Reflector - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4117 / Virus Database: 3604/6694 - Release Date: 09/24/13 _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna
Thanks Mike, I already purchased a unidirectional match from Array Solutions so I'm going to go with that for now to the NE. My next beverage will be bidirectional to the NW and SE. That should do it. It makes sense. I picked up about 500ft of bailing wire at the local hardware store and will be getting chicken fence for additional ground on terminated side. Need to check out the transmission performance of my dipole with cliff and ocean (model it).. and learn CW. Something like 90% of all comm. on 160 is CW. 73, Bryan. [CONFIDENTIALITY AND PRIVACY NOTICE] Information transmitted by this email is proprietary to Mr. Mrs. B and is intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed, or where ever the hell it ends up, and will almost certainly contain information that will offend a large portion of the population, which isn't our concern. If you are not the intended lucky recipient, or it appears that this mail has been forwarded to you without the proper authority of the Wizard of Email or Al Gore, you are notified that any thought, use, or consumption of this email is entirely your choice. In such case, Bon AppetitNote: A $.02 Internet Tax was charged for receiving this email and all funds were given to some family somewhere in America or the U.N Have a nice day. ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna
Bryan, Use RG-6 direct burial or equivalent for the beverage connection. No need to use LMR400. You should be able to find it relatively inexpensively. Make sure you have a matching transformer for the beverage impedance to 72 ohms for the RG-6. W8JI.com will give you just about all the information you need to make a transformer. Les W2LK On 11/9/2012 12:28 AM, Buck wh7dx wrote: After some more reading... It looks like NE is the best approach. Point it towards North America. I can probably get it pointed at the lower states. I wasn't sure if I wanted to go bi-directional or not and try and get Australia / NZ but I think I'll go for quiet and just try NA for now. I will need to take it up about 50-75 feet from the feed point I would guess. I don't now if an elevated beverage would be a negative. The ground is mostly hard old volcanic ash with loose dirt here and there.. just enough to make you fall down It's usually always dry and I'm thinking it is a very poor ground. Drill a few holes for copper ground rods on both side? Put about 10 radial wires on the rods and spread them around. In Hawaii I'm thinking bailing wire but it will rust. Fence wire isn't common. Question.. I was going to start the beverage pretty close to the 40, 80 160 dipole in the tree.. I'm low on LMR400. Last of my spool. If it was important, I could order more from mainland and start it higher on the mountain - giving me a more horizontal antenna. Should I be concerned with the beverage distance, using it for receiving and probably on a different radio? Thank you. Bryan WH7DX [CONFIDENTIALITY AND PRIVACY NOTICE] Information transmitted by this email is proprietary to Mr. Mrs. B and is intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed, or where ever the hell it ends up, and will almost certainly contain information that will offend a large portion of the population, which isn't our concern. If you are not the intended lucky recipient, or it appears that this mail has been forwarded to you without the proper authority of the Wizard of Email or Al Gore, you are notified that any thought, use, or consumption of this email is entirely your choice. In such case, Bon AppetitNote: A $.02 Internet Tax was charged for receiving this email and all funds were given to some family somewhere in America or the U.N Have a nice day. ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna
I was just reading about SALT spray in Hawaii and the what it does to the soil.. I never thought about that. Salt spray and not much rain for me. Salty volcanic top soil/rock? Again, thanks for all the emails.Helped walk it through. Going N/E and taking it as far away from Dipoles as 125ft of coax will take me :-) Cutting 8ft copper grounding rod into 2 or more pieces. Can't pound them in very far... will need to drill them in as anchors for radials. Using radial wire (whatever I can get here).. to run some wires out from the copper ground at the feed point (attach one to galvanized fence in the area??) and put MORE on the terminated end.. one or two long ones 100ft? I'm wondering if I'll see a difference in performance when it rains and washes away the salt spray on the ground? This was an interesting site... the Top Band info was really useful. http://www.chem.hawaii.edu/uham/index.html This is funny... so Hawaii... The first problem is to get from the traditional local relative directions such as Mauka, to actual compass references, the concepts seldom used in Hawaii such as north and east. Streets are usually not much help at all, since they seem to delight in going on all sorts of wierd angles. Besides, when North and South King Street run mostly east and west and North King is south of South King Street, it is not surprising that few in Hawaii can actually point north from any given location. In fact, finding any map of Hawaii that contains latitude and longitude lines is a struggle, and many maps of Hawaii seem to have even given up on the tradition of printing maps with north at the top! [CONFIDENTIALITY AND PRIVACY NOTICE] Information transmitted by this email is proprietary to Mr. Mrs. B and is intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed, or where ever the hell it ends up, and will almost certainly contain information that will offend a large portion of the population, which isn't our concern. If you are not the intended lucky recipient, or it appears that this mail has been forwarded to you without the proper authority of the Wizard of Email or Al Gore, you are notified that any thought, use, or consumption of this email is entirely your choice. In such case, Bon AppetitNote: A $.02 Internet Tax was charged for receiving this email and all funds were given to some family somewhere in America or the U.N Have a nice day. ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna
Bryan, Galvanized chicken wire (wire mesh) makes a superb ground for Beverage terminations especially in your ideal (for Beverage antenna performance) dry rocky environment. A 20 or 30 foot length of wire mesh should perform very well on 160 meters. Run it perpendicular to the end of your Beverage if possible, otherwise run it in whatever direction you can. If it lays under the Beverage, the portion of the Beverage directly above the wire mesh will behave more like a low loss transmission line than an antenna. I would encourage you to install the Beverage far from your transmit antenna, RG-6 is a excellent inexpensive solution. While a low dipole may get you on the air, an inverted-L vertical with ground redials will be far superior. Try to get as much vertical height as possible, at least 40-50 feet if at all possible. More is better. 73 Frank W3LPL Original message Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2012 13:02:36 -0500 From: Les Kalmus w...@bk-lk.com Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna To: topband@contesting.com Bryan, Use RG-6 direct burial or equivalent for the beverage connection. No need to use LMR400. You should be able to find it relatively inexpensively. Make sure you have a matching transformer for the beverage impedance to 72 ohms for the RG-6. W8JI.com will give you just about all the information you need to make a transformer. Les W2LK On 11/9/2012 12:28 AM, Buck wh7dx wrote: After some more reading... It looks like NE is the best approach. Point it towards North America. I can probably get it pointed at the lower states. I wasn't sure if I wanted to go bi-directional or not and try and get Australia / NZ but I think I'll go for quiet and just try NA for now. I will need to take it up about 50-75 feet from the feed point I would guess. I don't now if an elevated beverage would be a negative. The ground is mostly hard old volcanic ash with loose dirt here and there.. just enough to make you fall down It's usually always dry and I'm thinking it is a very poor ground. Drill a few holes for copper ground rods on both side? Put about 10 radial wires on the rods and spread them around. In Hawaii I'm thinking bailing wire but it will rust. Fence wire isn't common. Question.. I was going to start the beverage pretty close to the 40, 80 160 dipole in the tree.. I'm low on LMR400. Last of my spool. If it was important, I could order more from mainland and start it higher on the mountain - giving me a more horizontal antenna. Should I be concerned with the beverage distance, using it for receiving and probably on a different radio? Thank you. Bryan WH7DX [CONFIDENTIALITY AND PRIVACY NOTICE] Information transmitted by this email is proprietary to Mr. Mrs. B and is intended for use only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed, or where ever the hell it ends up, and will almost certainly contain information that will offend a large portion of the population, which isn't our concern. If you are not the intended lucky recipient, or it appears that this mail has been forwarded to you without the proper authority of the Wizard of Email or Al Gore, you are notified that any thought, use, or consumption of this email is entirely your choice. In such case, Bon AppetitNote: A $.02 Internet Tax was charged for receiving this email and all funds were given to some family somewhere in America or the U.N Have a nice day. ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna
That is excellent advice! 160 is a band for vertically-polarized antennas (such as an inverted-L or shunt-fed tower with radials lying on the ground.) http://www.w0btu.com/160_meters.html 73, Mike http://www.w0btu.com/Beverage_antennas.html On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 1:41 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote: While a low dipole may get you on the air, an inverted-L vertical with ground redials will be far superior. Try to get as much vertical height as possible, at least 40-50 feet ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna
Have you ever thought of using a 2-wire bi-directional Beverage? They are not complex at all. It only takes one more wire, two more simple transformers, and one more run of coax. A remote relay and four extra parts even lets you use just one run of coax for both directions. If you run a single wire Beverage in the opposite direction, then you have to put up twice as many supports (unless you have trees). But with a two-wire Beverage, you can use the same supports for both directions. 73, Mike http://www.w0btu.com/Beverage_antennas.html On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Buck wh7dx wh...@hawaii.rr.com wrote: Use RG-6 line in the future and run another Beverage in the opposite direction - NW. ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna
I'm not sure why the bidirectional coaxial cable Beveridge doesn't get more discussion. It is described in ON4UN's book, and seemed to work fine when I built one at a prior QTH, although it does take two feedlines from what would logically be the closest end to the shack. Given the price of RG6 and surplus RG58/59 it is easier and potentially cheaper than open wire feedline. Three transformers and no relays. (page 7-88 5th edition and earlier editions as well) Is there some reason that a pair of open wires are significantly better? Grant KZ1W On 11/9/2012 4:24 PM, Mike Waters wrote: Have you ever thought of using a 2-wire bi-directional Beverage? They are not complex at all. It only takes one more wire, two more simple transformers, and one more run of coax. A remote relay and four extra parts even lets you use just one run of coax for both directions. If you run a single wire Beverage in the opposite direction, then you have to put up twice as many supports (unless you have trees). But with a two-wire Beverage, you can use the same supports for both directions. 73, Mike http://www.w0btu.com/Beverage_antennas.html On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Buck wh7dx wh...@hawaii.rr.com wrote: Use RG-6 line in the future and run another Beverage in the opposite direction - NW. ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna
That's a good question. :-) Maybe it has something to do with the tension each one will stand. I think that CW or plated steel fence wire will stand a lot more tensioning than coax. 73, Mike www.w0btu.com On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 9:36 PM, Grant Saviers gran...@pacbell.net wrote: I'm not sure why the bidirectional coaxial cable Beveridge doesn't get more discussion. It is described in ON4UN's book, and seemed to work fine when I built one at a prior QTH, although it does take two feedlines from what would logically be the closest end to the shack. Given the price of RG6 and surplus RG58/59 it is easier and potentially cheaper than open wire feedline. Three transformers and no relays. (page 7-88 5th edition and earlier editions as well) Is there some reason that a pair of open wires are significantly better? Grant KZ1W On 11/9/2012 4:24 PM, Mike Waters wrote: Have you ever thought of using a 2-wire bi-directional Beverage? They are not complex at all. It only takes one more wire, two more simple transformers, and one more run of coax. A remote relay and four extra parts even lets you use just one run of coax for both directions. If you run a single wire Beverage in the opposite direction, then you have to put up twice as many supports (unless you have trees). But with a two-wire Beverage, you can use the same supports for both directions. 73, Mike http://www.w0btu.com/Beverage_**antennas.htmlhttp://www.w0btu.com/Beverage_antennas.html On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Buck wh7dx wh...@hawaii.rr.com wrote: Use RG-6 line in the future and run another Beverage in the opposite direction - NW. __**_ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com ___ Topband reflector - topband@contesting.com
Re: Topband: Beverage Antenna;
Guy, yes I am using WD1A on a 800 ft reversible around 12 high that has helped me work some tough ones in both directions E-W. I am using KD9SVs matching units. I have nothing to compare it with right now. 73 Mike K4PI ___ UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK