Re: Topband: My beverage only hears static?

[terry burge]

Thanks to all,


I have just swapped out the  coax with new RG-6 and it makes a world of 
difference. On  160 mtrs there isn't hardly anything to judge by since signals 
if they are there are so low. I tried the broadcast band and the beverage is 
now working. Just how well is hard to tell.


One 80 mtrs I was copying a qso between two stations, one who was about 
59+10/15 over. When I switched in  the beverage he went way down to about S-1 
to S3. I could still copy the stronger of the two stations but the S-9 one I 
could not copy at all on the beverage. Just going from background of S-7 and 
switching to the beverage I go down to S0/1. 


I think I'm going to try a preamp on this beverage. Think my 35-40 dB preamp 
for the Waller-Flag might suffice if I cut the gain back a ways. 


But the bottom line is the problem appeared to be old RG-6 coax. Like Gary is 
saying, it will take some time to be sure. If I can hear the Europeans on 
3.799.0 tonight you can bet I'll have a smile on my face. As usual this job 
took me about 5 times as long as anyone else. My building antennas or about 
anything seems to work out that way. But I'm retired, what else do I have to do 
with my time. Right?


Thanks for the help.

Terry

KI7M


> On January 13, 2018 at 4:18 PM kd9sv wrote:
> 
> 
> Terry, if the antenna hears noise it should also hear signals. I must 
> admit
> the 160 meter band has been almost completely void of signals much of the
> time. Listen the last weekend of Jan during the 160 contest and you will
> get a different opinion I'm sure although pointing the beverage north is 
> not
> a good idea since signals rarely come from the north. 73, de gary, kd9sv
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com 
> mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com ] On Behalf Of terry
> burge
> Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2018 5:01 PM
> To: Lee STRAHAN; topband@contesting.com mailto:topband@contesting.com
>     Subject: Re: Topband: My beverage only hears static?
> 
> Hi Lee,
> 
> 
> The only thing I've noticed are some pops going on some of the receive
> antennas that I think may be an electric fence or some power line arcing.
> They are about 1-2 seconds apart. I see them sometimes and I can see it
> causing the AGC on fast to cut back the gain on the receiver. But that 
> does
> not sound like the constant static I hear.
> 
> 
> Just bought some new RG-6 coax from Norvac to replace this old stuff and
> make sure it's not that. Also got some resistors and 'gators' for checking
> my 4:1 and 9:1 XFMR's like Tree was telling me. Also got some fence post 
> and
> 1 1/2" PVC to put up a NE beverage that I hope will reach at least 400 
> feet
> or better.
> 
> 
> Terry
> 
> KI7M
> 
> > > On January 13, 2018 at 11:50 AM Lee STRAHAN wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Hello All,
> > I may not have seen all of the posts on this topic but will comment
> > 
> > > anyway.
> 
> > > Two things come to mind about this noise. Number one is you do not
> > 
> > > want to connect the shield of the coax going to the receiver to the 
> > ground
> stake for the antenna. It's important that the transformer you use has an
> isolated winding for the output to the cable leading to the shack. The 
> other
> comment is you may have some local arcing or digital noise that the Tx
> antenna does not hear. The best clue to checking for this is to use the AM
> mode on your receiver and listen for the characteristic hum from a power
> line or switching supply.
> 
> > > Good Luck
> > Lee K7TJR OR
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com 
> > mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com
> > 
> > > mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com 
> > mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com ] On Behalf Of terry burge
> 
> > > Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2018 11:09 AM
> > To: David Olean ; topband@contesting.com 
> > mailto:topband@contesting.com mailto:topband@contesting.com 
> > mailto:topband@contesting.com
> > Subject: Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 181, Issue 16
> > 
> > Hello Dave and Group,
> > 
> > 
> > I had responded directly to Martin and will include my comments to
> > 
> > > him. Right now I hesitate to pull the tape off the coax at the XFRM 
> > but will
> do that ASAP to check it out. When I took it off the old spool it had not
> been used but it is donated to m

Re: Topband: My beverage only hears static?

[Lloyd - N9LB]

A couple of thoughts...

5 clip-on ferrites is extremely insufficient at 160m, get some small
diameter coax and large toroid core for decoupling.
http://audiosystemsgroup.com/RFI-Ham.pdf
http://www.karinya.net/g3txq/chokes/

Set up your beverages as reversible.  The ability to switch between forward
and reverse will tell you a great deal about your environment and is a good
day-to-day indicator of the correct or incorrect functioning of the
beverage. 

73

Lloyd - N9LB

On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 2:44 PM, terry burge  wrote:

> I put up my first beverage recently. It's about 550-600 feet of 17 
> gauge electric fence wire running to the north about 6-7 feet high. 
> Not terminated right now but using a beverage transformer I purchased 
> on qth.com and have not put on the termination yet. Using a 5' 
> galvanized ground rod at the transformer and 75 ohm RG-6 surplus I got 
> about 35 feet to my K-3 Elecraft thru an Array Solutions frontend 
> protector to the RX antenna connection.
>
> All I get is S-5 static on the beverage. Even the strong stations 
> barely make a ripple of noise. Is this right?
>
> I added some clamp on ferrites to see if the Common Mode Noise would 
> be cut down but after putting 5 on the RG-6 coax there is no 
> difference. Just that S-5 static level on any band 80/40/20/etc. Right 
> now I'm listening to P49MR on 14.250.0 Mhz and his 57 signal does not 
> even come thru on the beverage when I switch to RX antenna?
>
_
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_
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Re: Topband: My beverage only hears static?

[Ed Sawyer]

I think the first question is - whats you steady noise level with your TX
antenna?  Maybe S5 is a 30db improvement.  If not, in my experience - steady
state noise is either a local point source close to the antenna (is there
anything along the path or within a few hundred feet of the end?  Houses,
light poles, etc?)  The other is bad coax system picking up coupled noise.
The easiest way to get to the bottom of that is to use a radio that can be
brought right to the beverage feed (off the transformer).  Whats the actual
SWR at that point with a known good coax jumper?  Then whats the noise with
a radio at that point? Vs in the shack?  Also, what is the noise floor
during the day vs the night?

 

Let us know the results of these.

 

Here my beverages (with preamp off) have S1 noise on 160 typically vs S6-7
on the TX verticals on a typical evening.

 

Ed  N1UR

_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: My beverage only hears static?

[terry burge]

Hi Lee,


The only thing I've noticed are some pops going on some of the receive antennas 
that I think may be an electric fence or some power line arcing. They are about 
1-2 seconds apart. I see them sometimes and I can see it causing the AGC on 
fast to cut back the gain on the receiver. But that does not sound like the 
constant static I hear.


Just bought some new RG-6 coax from Norvac to replace this old stuff and make 
sure it's not that. Also got some resistors and 'gators' for checking my 4:1 
and 9:1 XFMR's like Tree was telling me. Also got some fence post and 1 1/2" 
PVC to put up a NE beverage that I hope will reach at least 400 feet or better. 


Terry

KI7M

> On January 13, 2018 at 11:50 AM Lee STRAHAN wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello All,
> I may not have seen all of the posts on this topic but will comment 
> anyway.
> Two things come to mind about this noise. Number one is you do not want 
> to connect the shield of the coax going to the receiver to the ground stake 
> for the antenna. It's important that the transformer you use has an isolated 
> winding for the output to the cable leading to the shack. The other comment 
> is you may have some local arcing or digital noise that the Tx antenna does 
> not hear. The best clue to checking for this is to use the AM mode on your 
> receiver and listen for the characteristic hum from a power line or switching 
> supply.
> Good Luck
> Lee K7TJR OR
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com 
> mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com ] On Behalf Of terry burge
> Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2018 11:09 AM
> To: David Olean ; topband@contesting.com mailto:topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 181, Issue 16
> 
> Hello Dave and Group,
> 
> 
> I had responded directly to Martin and will include my comments to him. 
> Right now I hesitate to pull the tape off the coax at the XFRM but will do 
> that ASAP to check it out. When I took it off the old spool it had not been 
> used but it is donated to me from a junk yard lot. I also got a 4 foot spool 
> nearly full of 1/2" hardline I'm planning on replacing my ground run of 
> LMR-400 with. 75 ohm but it should work if I can build the connections to the 
> LMR-400 PL-259's, etc.
> 
> 
> Disconnecting the ground as well as the BOG (in this case) from the XFRM 
> causes the noise to drop down to about S-1 to S-2.
> 
> With ground connected to the XFRM I get about S-5 noise level without any 
> antenna.
> 
> Per my note to Martin you can read my other test. Right now with the 
> 550-600 ft. beverage hooked up along with ground of course, I get S-5 noise 
> level and can't hear an S-9+10 over signal on 7.235 Mhz.
> 
> 
> Terry
> 
> KI7M
> 
> -
> 
> _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> 
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Re: Topband: My beverage only hears static?

[Martin]

No matter where the beverage points to, terminated or not, hearing only 
s5 static just seems not right to me.
Did you connect your antenna to RX IN (not OUT) ? What XFMR do you use? 
Grounded the coax at the feedpoint by accident? What happens when you 
leave the frontend protector out of the setup? Will your K3 pick up 
signals when you connect your TX-antenna to RX IN?


73, Martin


Am 13.01.2018 um 15:16 schrieb topband-requ...@contesting.com:

Message: 8
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 12:44:25 -0800 (PST)
From: terry burge
To:topband@contesting.com, terry burge
Subject: Topband: My beverage only hears  static?
Message-ID:<787619245.139836.1515789865...@connect.xfinity.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Hi folks,


I put up my first beverage recently. It's about 550-600 feet of 17 gauge 
electric fence wire running to the north about 6-7 feet high. Not terminated 
right now but using a beverage transformer I purchased on qth.com and have not 
put on the termination yet. Using a 5' galvanized ground rod at the transformer 
and 75 ohm RG-6 surplus I got about 35 feet to my K-3 Elecraft thru an Array 
Solutions frontend protector to the RX antenna connection.


All I get is S-5 static on the beverage. Even the strong stations barely make a 
ripple of noise. Is this right?


I added some clamp on ferrites to see if the Common Mode Noise would be cut 
down but after putting 5 on the RG-6 coax there is no difference. Just that S-5 
static level on any band 80/40/20/etc. Right now I'm listening to P49MR on 
14.250.0 Mhz and his 57 signal does not even come thru on the beverage when I 
switch to RX antenna?


Terry

KI7M



--

Ohne CW ist es nur CB..

73, Martin DM4iM
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: My beverage only hears static?

[Mike Waters]

Yup. I get emails all the time from people doing just that (I wish they
would ask their Beverage antenna questions here! :-)

Think of a rotatable 20m beam, on a tower and with a rotor. *You have to
point that towards the DX. And the same is true of a Beverage*, phased
vertical arrays, K9AY loop, flag, etc. I should answer this latest
I-wanna-Beverage ham using that comparison, and maybe he'll finally get it.
He wants to weave an insulated wire through a 15' high chain-link fence.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 4:02 PM, terry burge  wrote:

> Oh, the reason the antenna is going to the north is that it's the most
> convenient direction to run my first beverage.
>
_
Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband

Re: Topband: My beverage only hears static?

[terry burge]

Hi Mike and the group,


Oh, the reason the antenna is going to the north is that it's the most 
convinenant direction to run my first beverage. I also tried some RG-11 (also 
scrap from some CATV company I think) as a BOG. It's about 170 feet (that's 
what I had) and I used it to just check and see if I could hear better with the 
BOG using the shield as the antenna. Same results. 


I just tried Tree's suggestion and went to the AM band and with the BOG the 
noise floor goes up on my P3 panadapter. At 1650 KHz I'm copying the local 
state weather condition and road condition channel. On AM mode it reads 59+5/10 
and when I go to RX antenna I get an S-9 static with the carrier visable . 
Can't hear the audio The AM broadcast station just below at 1640 KHz can be 
copied. Tried LSB and that noise floor going up is the most noticeable thing 
going up. Readings about the same.


I even disconnected the antennas getting S1/2. Found when I connect ground on 
either XFRM input I go from S1/2  up to S-4/5.


Terry

KI7M


> On January 12, 2018 at 1:12 PM Mike Waters wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Terry,
> 
> Is there a reason why you're pointing north? That's the wrong direction 
> for
> Aruba, especially with the very narrow beamwidth it has on 20m! :-)
> 
> On my Beverage antenna page at
> www.w0btu.com/Beverage_antennas.html near the bottom, is an explanation of
> where we should point our Beverages. I now use DX Atlas, which is perfect
> for showing what direction the other station is.
> 
> Some tips:
> 
> Pour a hot, concentrated solution of Epsom Salts around any
> freshly-driven-in ground rod (see the above web site). Later, add some
> short radials (also see the website).
> 
> Generally, north is seldom a good direction, especially because from 
> Oregon
> you're pointing over the area where the least bit of Auroral activity can
> ruin your reception.
> 
> If you terminate it, the signals and noise off the back of your Beverage
> will drop by about 20 dB.
> 
> There's lots of folks here that can help you, that know more than I do
> about Beverages.
> 
> 73, Mike
> www.w0btu.com
> 
> On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 2:44 PM, terry burge wrote:
> 
> > > I put up my first beverage recently. It's about 550-600 feet of 
> 17 gauge
> > electric fence wire running to the north about 6-7 feet high. Not
> > terminated right now but using a beverage transformer I purchased on
> > qth.com and have not put on the termination yet. Using a 5' 
> > galvanized
> > ground rod at the transformer and 75 ohm RG-6 surplus I got about 
> > 35 feet
> > to my K-3 Elecraft thru an Array Solutions frontend protector to 
> > the RX
> > antenna connection.
> > 
> > All I get is S-5 static on the beverage. Even the strong stations 
> > barely
> > make a ripple of noise. Is this right?
> > 
> > I added some clamp on ferrites to see if the Common Mode Noise 
> > would be
> > cut down but after putting 5 on the RG-6 coax there is no 
> > difference. Just
> > that S-5 static level on any band 80/40/20/etc. Right now I'm 
> > listening to
> > P49MR on 14.250.0 Mhz and his 57 signal does not even come thru on 
> > the
> > beverage when I switch to RX antenna?
> > 
> > > _
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> 
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Re: Topband: My beverage only hears static?

[Mike Waters]

Hi Terry,

Is there a reason why you're pointing north? That's the wrong direction for
Aruba, especially with the very narrow beamwidth it has on 20m! :-)

On my Beverage antenna page at
www.w0btu.com/Beverage_antennas.html near the bottom, is an explanation of
where we should point our Beverages. I now use DX Atlas, which is perfect
for showing what direction the other station is.

Some tips:

Pour a hot, concentrated solution of Epsom Salts around any
freshly-driven-in ground rod (see the above web site). Later, add some
short radials (also see the website).

Generally, north is seldom a good direction, especially because from Oregon
you're pointing over the area where the least bit of Auroral activity can
ruin your reception.

If you terminate it, the signals and noise off the back of your Beverage
will drop by about 20 dB.

There's lots of folks here that can help you, that know more than I do
about Beverages.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com

On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 2:44 PM, terry burge  wrote:

> I put up my first beverage recently. It's about 550-600 feet of 17 gauge
> electric fence wire running to the north about 6-7 feet high. Not
> terminated right now but using a beverage transformer I purchased on
> qth.com and have not put on the termination yet. Using a 5' galvanized
> ground rod at the transformer and 75 ohm RG-6 surplus I got about 35 feet
> to my K-3 Elecraft thru an Array Solutions frontend protector to the RX
> antenna connection.
>
> All I get is S-5 static on the beverage. Even the strong stations barely
> make a ripple of noise. Is this right?
>
> I added some clamp on ferrites to see if the Common Mode Noise would be
> cut down but after putting 5 on the RG-6 coax there is no difference. Just
> that S-5 static level on any band 80/40/20/etc. Right now I'm listening to
> P49MR on 14.250.0 Mhz and his 57 signal does not even come thru on the
> beverage when I switch to RX antenna?
>
_
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