Re: Topband: Polyphaser
They also made an earlier version that had an analog meter. It would indicate the clamping voltage. Typical failure mode for the Polyphaser is an open gas tube that doesn't clamp... You loose protection and don't know it... I've also been told they also have a shelf life and at times the clamping voltage can decrease causing them to clamp at too low a voltage which wouldn't be a good thing in TX system use. Cecil K5DL Sent using recycled electrons. > On Mar 1, 2015, at 4:37 PM, Art Snapper wrote: > > Polyphaser made a tester. > http://wrblock.com/WRBproducts/DIGIfist/DigiFIST.html > > Possibly a land mobile shop in your area has one. Essentially they > generated low current, high voltage until the tube fired. > > Perhaps it is different with HF, but in my land mobile experience, if the > supressor was damaged, either it was shorted, or obvious damage was > present when disassembled. > > Their antenna protectors have significant attenuation when used outside the > rated frequency range. > > > Art > > >> On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 7:17 AM, Greg Wilson wrote: >> >> Does anyone know how to test a Polyphaser to know if it is still good? I >> have some that have seen some lightning storms and was wondering if they >> are still doing the job. Thanks, Greg >> _ >> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Polyphaser
Polyphaser made a test box for a few years...model was F.I.S.T. 4. Worked really well.. Watch ebay...they may turn up there at times. Cecil K5DL Sent using recycled electrons. > On Mar 1, 2015, at 5:27 PM, "Tom W8JI" wrote: > > When I test things like that, I high pot them with a home made tester. Things > like this are not difficult to make. You can buy a surplus HV power supply > used to ionize air for a few bucks, and stick it in a box with a meter on it. > > You don't need to get fancy, just check it for breakdown voltage. If it is > bad, the breakdown voltage will be way off. > > Ameritron gets about 5-10 customers a year where gas tubes in lightning > protection go bad. They break down early. The result of that is an amplifier > can get up to a few hundred watts or more, and then *wham* the feedline > shorts! This is always great on parts. > > I don't have a single GDT in my TX system, although I've tried them in my RX > systems out in switch boxes near antennas. I have mixed results using low > voltage GDT devices to protect relays and stuff. I have no damage at all in > the house without them. > > 73 Tom > > > > > - Original Message - From: "Art Snapper" > To: "Greg Wilson" > Cc: "160" > Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2015 5:37 PM > Subject: Re: Topband: Polyphaser > > >> Polyphaser made a tester. >> http://wrblock.com/WRBproducts/DIGIfist/DigiFIST.html >> >> Possibly a land mobile shop in your area has one. Essentially they >> generated low current, high voltage until the tube fired. >> >> Perhaps it is different with HF, but in my land mobile experience, if the >> supressor was damaged, either it was shorted, or obvious damage was >> present when disassembled. >> >> Their antenna protectors have significant attenuation when used outside the >> rated frequency range. >> >> >> Art >> >> >>> On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 7:17 AM, Greg Wilson wrote: >>> >>> Does anyone know how to test a Polyphaser to know if it is still good? I >>> have some that have seen some lightning storms and was wondering if they >>> are still doing the job. Thanks, Greg >>> _ >>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband >> _ >> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband >> >> >> - >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 2014.0.4800 / Virus Database: 4257/9209 - Release Date: 03/01/15 > > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Polyphaser
When I test things like that, I high pot them with a home made tester. Things like this are not difficult to make. You can buy a surplus HV power supply used to ionize air for a few bucks, and stick it in a box with a meter on it. You don't need to get fancy, just check it for breakdown voltage. If it is bad, the breakdown voltage will be way off. Ameritron gets about 5-10 customers a year where gas tubes in lightning protection go bad. They break down early. The result of that is an amplifier can get up to a few hundred watts or more, and then *wham* the feedline shorts! This is always great on parts. I don't have a single GDT in my TX system, although I've tried them in my RX systems out in switch boxes near antennas. I have mixed results using low voltage GDT devices to protect relays and stuff. I have no damage at all in the house without them. 73 Tom - Original Message - From: "Art Snapper" To: "Greg Wilson" Cc: "160" Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2015 5:37 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Polyphaser Polyphaser made a tester. http://wrblock.com/WRBproducts/DIGIfist/DigiFIST.html Possibly a land mobile shop in your area has one. Essentially they generated low current, high voltage until the tube fired. Perhaps it is different with HF, but in my land mobile experience, if the supressor was damaged, either it was shorted, or obvious damage was present when disassembled. Their antenna protectors have significant attenuation when used outside the rated frequency range. Art On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 7:17 AM, Greg Wilson wrote: Does anyone know how to test a Polyphaser to know if it is still good? I have some that have seen some lightning storms and was wondering if they are still doing the job. Thanks, Greg _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4800 / Virus Database: 4257/9209 - Release Date: 03/01/15 _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Polyphaser
Polyphaser made a tester. http://wrblock.com/WRBproducts/DIGIfist/DigiFIST.html Possibly a land mobile shop in your area has one. Essentially they generated low current, high voltage until the tube fired. Perhaps it is different with HF, but in my land mobile experience, if the supressor was damaged, either it was shorted, or obvious damage was present when disassembled. Their antenna protectors have significant attenuation when used outside the rated frequency range. Art On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 7:17 AM, Greg Wilson wrote: > Does anyone know how to test a Polyphaser to know if it is still good? I > have some that have seen some lightning storms and was wondering if they > are still doing the job. Thanks, Greg > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Polyphaser
I don't know if the policy is still in place, but I remember that Polyphaser used to offer free testing of their products if you sent them back to the factory. Words about it were buried somewhere in their catalog, and I used the service many years ago when I was about to put one of their old coax arrestors back into service. Testing them yourself can be difficult, because it requires a high-voltage transient generator with known waveform characteristics. They're not too difficult to build, but sending a questionable part back to the factory is the best option for most of us. 73, Brad KV5V On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 6:17 AM, Greg Wilson wrote: > Does anyone know how to test a Polyphaser to know if it is still good? I > have some that have seen some lightning storms and was wondering if they > are still doing the job. Thanks, Greg > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Polyphaser IS-50UX-CO vs ICE Model 303?
Could that not be said of any inline protection then? Almost, anything but a disconnect. Also, while we sometimes go wild with grounds, nearly ALL of the protection (or lack of protection) comes from how things are bonded and common grounded going into the protected area. I can't stress the point that a proper entrance and proper ground bonding, so everything rises together without high current loops through equipment, is nearly 100% of actual protection. My towers take at least one hit in every lightning storm, and other than RF ground radials on my four square area, I have no fantastic grounds. My 318 foot tower has eight deep-buried number 6 or 8 gauge copper radials about 50-100 feet long, interspersed with around thirty #16 shallow bare wires from when I fed the tower as a vertical. It has only a few ground rods. http://www.w8ji.com/Antenna%20grounds.htm The house has a buried perimeter conductor, but almost no ground rods. I never have lightning damage inside buildings. Not one piece of consumer gear has ever been damaged. Never lost a modem. Despite what we sometimes hear, nearly all protection comes from how entrances are constructed and bonded. The worse thing in the world is an entrance ground that is not connected to the power mains ground. 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Polyphaser IS-50UX-CO vs ICE Model 303?
The polyphasers are good protectors but be aware that they rely on gas tubes for protection and their failure mode is one that leaves you unknowingly unprotected. After so many ionizations the gas tube will fail and won't clamp on the next strike. For a time Polyphaser made a test set to verify the function of the gas tube. We use those at work to test those in use once a year and every year we find a few that have failed. Polyphaser quit selling the test set (FIST4) several years back so one will need to find another way to test themmaybe a meggar. They don't only fail high. They fail low too. One of the more common damage failures in high power amplifiers is running them in systems with lightning protection gas tubes that fire at lower than planned voltage. That can really tear things up if the lightning protection device is the right distance away to reflect the wrong impedance at the amplifier output port. Such devices have limited value anyway. If they let a few kilowatts of energy out, they will let enough back in to tear things up. _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Polyphaser IS-50UX-CO vs ICE Model 303?
On 1/20/2013 1:40 AM, cx...@4email.net wrote: I started replacing all items along the path and discovered the PP on the grounded copper board at the base of the tower had gone 'south'... Several points here. First, there is no value to lightning suppression at the base of a tower unless that tower is next to the shack. A lightning suppressor shorts the center conductor to the shield to protect equipment that the coax feeds. It is most effective very near the equipment. Second, lightning protection depends very strongly on proper bonding together of all the equipment and wiring in your home, to each other, and to all earth connections. That means EVERYTHING. Caps for emphasis added. Third, while I have no practical way of knowing when Polyphasers have failed "open," I have experienced at least four occasions of Polyphasers failing shorted. On at least two of those occasions the cause of the failure has been very high voltage at the Polyphaser, most recently caused by the 40M element of my 80/40 fan breaking in a windstorm and hitting with legal limit power before I had figured that out. It should be possible to restore the Polyphaser to new condition by replacing the gas tube if a source for the tube (including its spec) can be found. 73, Jim K9YC _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Polyphaser IS-50UX-CO vs ICE Model 303?
On Sun Jan 20 01:58:14 2013, Cecil wrote: The polyphasers are good protectors but be aware that they rely on gas tubes for protection and their failure mode is one that leaves you unknowingly unprotected. After so many ionizations the gas tube will fail and won't clamp on the next strike. For a time Polyphaser made a test set to verify the function of the gas tube. We use those at work to test those in use once a year and every year we find a few that have failed. Polyphaser quit selling the test set (FIST4) several years back so one will need to find another way to test themmaybe a meggar. Cecil K5DL 'snip' Topband Reflector Cecil, That's a good point. About a year ago I was having problems with my Steppir..after replacing coax, doing lot's of testing on the Steppir control box I started replacing all items along the path and discovered the PP on the grounded copper board at the base of the tower had gone 'south'... 73 Tom _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Polyphaser IS-50UX-CO vs ICE Model 303?
The polyphasers are good protectors but be aware that they rely on gas tubes for protection and their failure mode is one that leaves you unknowingly unprotected. After so many ionizations the gas tube will fail and won't clamp on the next strike. For a time Polyphaser made a test set to verify the function of the gas tube. We use those at work to test those in use once a year and every year we find a few that have failed. Polyphaser quit selling the test set (FIST4) several years back so one will need to find another way to test themmaybe a meggar. Cecil K5DL Sent from my iPad On Jan 18, 2013, at 9:15 PM, HAROLD SMITH JR wrote: > Hello Tom, > > I have Polyphaser and I.C.E. units on all my cables ( Antenna and all Control > ). > > I installed them in 1991 after several strikes damaged my Tranceivers. > Since then, I have had no problems. > The most important is a good Grounding System. A couple of ground rods won't > do the trick. > > 73..Price W0RI near Saint Louis, MO. > > > > Subject: Topband: Polyphaser IS-50UX-CO vs ICE Model 303? > > Hello, > > Am in the process of running underground coax/control cables to DXE UE-1P > Grounding and Utility box IOT run 40m V dipole and topband inverted L/FCP. I > have had the Polyphaser 50UX in the HF system since 2008 and it has worked > wellI have two each of PP and ICE in the radio closet and wonder which > the > group would recommend over the other. The reason the HF system has the PP is > that they arrived before the ICE units. What has been your experience/advice? > > 73 > Tom > CX7TT aka CW7T > _ > Topband Reflector > _ > Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Polyphaser IS-50UX-CO vs ICE Model 303?
Like Price I was seriously hit in 1989 lost all radios computers TV sets other appliances lots of coax and switches. Never again. Three towers the tallest is 185 feet. So I am the local lightening rod at well over 100 feet above all local trees. I have 100 ground rods connected by 1200 feet of 3/8" ID Copper Tubing. The Inductance per foot of this copper tubing is lower than 2 inch wide copper strap. Copper tubing is silver soldered to all ground rods. All Coax and other lines entering the house have Polyphaser Devices on them including phone power etc. Tall Tower has been hit many times since installing the system. Zero Damge. Finally the whole house shunt protector gave up the ghost a few years ago and had to purchase a new one. John k9uwa > Hello Tom, > > I have Polyphaser and I.C.E. units on all my cables ( Antenna and all Control > ). > > > I installed them in 1991 after several strikes damaged my Tranceivers. > Since then, I have had no problems. > The most important is a good Grounding System. A couple of ground rods won't > do the trick. 73..Price W0RI near Saint Louis, MO. Subject: Topband: > Polyphaser IS-50UX-CO vs ICE Model 303? > > Hello, > > Am in the process of running underground coax/control cables to DXE UE-1P > Grounding and Utility box IOT run 40m V dipole and topband inverted L/FCP. I > have had the Polyphaser 50UX in the HF system since 2008 and it has worked > wellI have two each of PP and ICE in the radio closet and wonder which the > group would recommend over the other. The reason the HF system has the PP is > that they arrived before the ICE units. What has been your experience/advice? > > 73 > Tom > CX7TT aka CW7T > _ > Topband Reflector > _ > Topband Reflector > --- End of forwarded message --- John Goller, K9UWA & Jean Goller, N9PXF Antique Radio Restorations k9...@arrl.net Visit our Web Site at: http://www.JohnJeanAntiqueRadio.com 4836 Ranch Road Leo, IN 46765 USA 1-260-637-6426 _ Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: Polyphaser IS-50UX-CO vs ICE Model 303?
Hello Tom, I have Polyphaser and I.C.E. units on all my cables ( Antenna and all Control ). I installed them in 1991 after several strikes damaged my Tranceivers. Since then, I have had no problems. The most important is a good Grounding System. A couple of ground rods won't do the trick. 73..Price W0RI near Saint Louis, MO. Subject: Topband: Polyphaser IS-50UX-CO vs ICE Model 303? Hello, Am in the process of running underground coax/control cables to DXE UE-1P Grounding and Utility box IOT run 40m V dipole and topband inverted L/FCP. I have had the Polyphaser 50UX in the HF system since 2008 and it has worked wellI have two each of PP and ICE in the radio closet and wonder which the group would recommend over the other. The reason the HF system has the PP is that they arrived before the ICE units. What has been your experience/advice? 73 Tom CX7TT aka CW7T _ Topband Reflector _ Topband Reflector
