Re: Topband: The band sans noise
Hi Bob and all, I'm also interested in your experience on the waller flag. i don't know what to build , a single loop (rotatable flag) witch is not so difficult of course or a waller flag. So all info is welcome. sorry for my english, my home language is dutch hihi Gert ON4GPE Op 23/04/2016 om 20:00 schreef Bob K6UJ: Hi Ken, Be glad to. It took me a while to get mine working, found some basic things I needed to do and it now works very well. First a question. How far is your flag from the house and also an antenna tower or other metal structures ? I had to detune my tower it is only 40 feet away from the Flag. After this we can go over the construction of the Flag and its feed system issues like eliminating common mode interference. Maybe it would be best to discuss this directly rather than the reflector ? I can be long winded. hihi Bob K6UJ On 4/23/16 10:42 AM, Ken K6MR wrote: Interesting comments about the WF. I recently built one and so far it has been a complete failure. Care to share the details? Ken K6MR From: Bob K6UJ<mailto:k...@pacbell.net> Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2016 10:30 To: topband@contesting.com<mailto:topband@contesting.com> Subject: Re: Topband: The band sans noise Bill, Sounds great ! hihihi A lot cheaper than a Pixel too ! Until now I have kept my comments to myself about the Pixel. I had a Pixel for a short time and sold it. At the time I had electrical hash from one direction due to loose hardware on a power pole. It took forever for our utility company to fix it. I have a Waller Flag for receive on 160 and it was very effective at nulling out the power pole noise. I read all the rave reviews on the Pixel and thought it would outperform the Flag for nulling out the noise and was also curious how it compared to the flag on picking up 160 DX signals. The Pixel did provide a nice null from the power pole noise but not nearly as deep of a null as the Waller Flag. On discriminating 160 DX from the band noise level it was very poor indeed. The Waller Flag way out performed the Pixel. I could hear DX stations with the flag and could not hear them at all on the pixel when receiving stations close to the noise level. The Pixel would be suited for someone in an apartment or with a small lot and doesn't have the room for a larger receiving antenna like the Waller Flag. It is a compromise receiving antenna but we have to work with what we have as far as room for antennas. 73, Bob K6UJ On 4/23/16 9:45 AM, william radice wrote: I have an antenna of very similar design and performance. It is an all aluminum lawn chair on a pole. BILL On 4/22/2016 1:42 PM, Rob Atkinson wrote: Throw bricks all you want to the end of time but you'll never change the fact that we tested that antenna and saw its performance first hand; The preamp was designed by Jack Smith at CliftonLabs..I'm sure he'll enjoy reading your comments and get a good laugh. 73 Rob K5UJ On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 11:26 AM, JC wrote: SORRY am not getting into this PR.. PIXEL loop is a low RDF and LOW performance receiving antenna, it is really snake oil. I'm out of this discussion. Regards JC In tests, the Pixel magnetic loop provided at least 20 dB null off the sides. From my experience, that is much better "filtering" than what would be had with a horizontal loop. Of course it isn't all in the antenna itself--a great deal of the success comes from the special preamp designed for use with the antenna. <<< _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: The band sans noise
Hi Ken, Be glad to. It took me a while to get mine working, found some basic things I needed to do and it now works very well. First a question. How far is your flag from the house and also an antenna tower or other metal structures ? I had to detune my tower it is only 40 feet away from the Flag. After this we can go over the construction of the Flag and its feed system issues like eliminating common mode interference. Maybe it would be best to discuss this directly rather than the reflector ? I can be long winded. hihi Bob K6UJ On 4/23/16 10:42 AM, Ken K6MR wrote: Interesting comments about the WF. I recently built one and so far it has been a complete failure. Care to share the details? Ken K6MR From: Bob K6UJ<mailto:k...@pacbell.net> Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2016 10:30 To: topband@contesting.com<mailto:topband@contesting.com> Subject: Re: Topband: The band sans noise Bill, Sounds great ! hihihi A lot cheaper than a Pixel too ! Until now I have kept my comments to myself about the Pixel. I had a Pixel for a short time and sold it. At the time I had electrical hash from one direction due to loose hardware on a power pole. It took forever for our utility company to fix it. I have a Waller Flag for receive on 160 and it was very effective at nulling out the power pole noise. I read all the rave reviews on the Pixel and thought it would outperform the Flag for nulling out the noise and was also curious how it compared to the flag on picking up 160 DX signals. The Pixel did provide a nice null from the power pole noise but not nearly as deep of a null as the Waller Flag. On discriminating 160 DX from the band noise level it was very poor indeed. The Waller Flag way out performed the Pixel. I could hear DX stations with the flag and could not hear them at all on the pixel when receiving stations close to the noise level. The Pixel would be suited for someone in an apartment or with a small lot and doesn't have the room for a larger receiving antenna like the Waller Flag. It is a compromise receiving antenna but we have to work with what we have as far as room for antennas. 73, Bob K6UJ On 4/23/16 9:45 AM, william radice wrote: I have an antenna of very similar design and performance. It is an all aluminum lawn chair on a pole. BILL On 4/22/2016 1:42 PM, Rob Atkinson wrote: Throw bricks all you want to the end of time but you'll never change the fact that we tested that antenna and saw its performance first hand; The preamp was designed by Jack Smith at CliftonLabs..I'm sure he'll enjoy reading your comments and get a good laugh. 73 Rob K5UJ On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 11:26 AM, JC wrote: SORRY am not getting into this PR.. PIXEL loop is a low RDF and LOW performance receiving antenna, it is really snake oil. I'm out of this discussion. Regards JC In tests, the Pixel magnetic loop provided at least 20 dB null off the sides. From my experience, that is much better "filtering" than what would be had with a horizontal loop. Of course it isn't all in the antenna itself--a great deal of the success comes from the special preamp designed for use with the antenna. <<< _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: The band sans noise
Interesting comments about the WF. I recently built one and so far it has been a complete failure. Care to share the details? Ken K6MR From: Bob K6UJ<mailto:k...@pacbell.net> Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2016 10:30 To: topband@contesting.com<mailto:topband@contesting.com> Subject: Re: Topband: The band sans noise Bill, Sounds great ! hihihi A lot cheaper than a Pixel too ! Until now I have kept my comments to myself about the Pixel. I had a Pixel for a short time and sold it. At the time I had electrical hash from one direction due to loose hardware on a power pole. It took forever for our utility company to fix it. I have a Waller Flag for receive on 160 and it was very effective at nulling out the power pole noise. I read all the rave reviews on the Pixel and thought it would outperform the Flag for nulling out the noise and was also curious how it compared to the flag on picking up 160 DX signals. The Pixel did provide a nice null from the power pole noise but not nearly as deep of a null as the Waller Flag. On discriminating 160 DX from the band noise level it was very poor indeed. The Waller Flag way out performed the Pixel. I could hear DX stations with the flag and could not hear them at all on the pixel when receiving stations close to the noise level. The Pixel would be suited for someone in an apartment or with a small lot and doesn't have the room for a larger receiving antenna like the Waller Flag. It is a compromise receiving antenna but we have to work with what we have as far as room for antennas. 73, Bob K6UJ On 4/23/16 9:45 AM, william radice wrote: > I have an antenna of very similar design and performance. It is an > all aluminum lawn chair on a pole. > BILL > > On 4/22/2016 1:42 PM, Rob Atkinson wrote: >> Throw bricks all you want to the end of time but you'll never change >> the fact that we tested that antenna and saw its performance first >> hand; The preamp was designed by Jack Smith at CliftonLabs..I'm sure >> he'll enjoy reading your comments and get a good laugh. >> >> 73 >> >> Rob >> K5UJ >> >> On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 11:26 AM, JC wrote: >>> SORRY am not getting into this PR.. PIXEL loop is a low RDF and LOW >>> performance receiving antenna, it is really snake oil. >>> >>> I'm out of this discussion. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> JC >>> >>> >>> In tests, the Pixel magnetic loop provided at least 20 dB null off the >>> sides. From my experience, that is much better "filtering" than what >>> would be had with a horizontal loop. Of course it isn't all in the >>> antenna itself--a great deal of the success comes from the special preamp >>> designed for use with the antenna. >>> <<< >>> _ >>> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband >>> >> _ >> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: The band sans noise
Bill, Sounds great ! hihihi A lot cheaper than a Pixel too ! Until now I have kept my comments to myself about the Pixel. I had a Pixel for a short time and sold it. At the time I had electrical hash from one direction due to loose hardware on a power pole. It took forever for our utility company to fix it. I have a Waller Flag for receive on 160 and it was very effective at nulling out the power pole noise. I read all the rave reviews on the Pixel and thought it would outperform the Flag for nulling out the noise and was also curious how it compared to the flag on picking up 160 DX signals. The Pixel did provide a nice null from the power pole noise but not nearly as deep of a null as the Waller Flag. On discriminating 160 DX from the band noise level it was very poor indeed. The Waller Flag way out performed the Pixel. I could hear DX stations with the flag and could not hear them at all on the pixel when receiving stations close to the noise level. The Pixel would be suited for someone in an apartment or with a small lot and doesn't have the room for a larger receiving antenna like the Waller Flag. It is a compromise receiving antenna but we have to work with what we have as far as room for antennas. 73, Bob K6UJ On 4/23/16 9:45 AM, william radice wrote: I have an antenna of very similar design and performance. It is an all aluminum lawn chair on a pole. BILL On 4/22/2016 1:42 PM, Rob Atkinson wrote: Throw bricks all you want to the end of time but you'll never change the fact that we tested that antenna and saw its performance first hand; The preamp was designed by Jack Smith at CliftonLabs..I'm sure he'll enjoy reading your comments and get a good laugh. 73 Rob K5UJ On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 11:26 AM, JC wrote: SORRY am not getting into this PR.. PIXEL loop is a low RDF and LOW performance receiving antenna, it is really snake oil. I'm out of this discussion. Regards JC In tests, the Pixel magnetic loop provided at least 20 dB null off the sides. From my experience, that is much better "filtering" than what would be had with a horizontal loop. Of course it isn't all in the antenna itself--a great deal of the success comes from the special preamp designed for use with the antenna. <<< _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: The band sans noise
I have an antenna of very similar design and performance. It is an all aluminum lawn chair on a pole. BILL On 4/22/2016 1:42 PM, Rob Atkinson wrote: > Throw bricks all you want to the end of time but you'll never change > the fact that we tested that antenna and saw its performance first > hand; The preamp was designed by Jack Smith at CliftonLabs..I'm sure > he'll enjoy reading your comments and get a good laugh. > > 73 > > Rob > K5UJ > > On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 11:26 AM, JC wrote: >> SORRY am not getting into this PR.. PIXEL loop is a low RDF and LOW >> performance receiving antenna, it is really snake oil. >> >> I'm out of this discussion. >> >> Regards >> >> JC >> >> >> In tests, the Pixel magnetic loop provided at least 20 dB null off the >> sides. From my experience, that is much better "filtering" than what >> would be had with a horizontal loop. Of course it isn't all in the >> antenna itself--a great deal of the success comes from the special preamp >> designed for use with the antenna. >> <<< >> _ >> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband >> > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: The band sans noise
Mike Waters wrote on April 22. snip< 1. What does the Pixel Loop do better than these and other loops? 2. What does the Pixel Loop's preamp do to improve the S/N ratio??? 3. And what IS its RDF?> The Pixel loop is balanced, so it will reject locally radiated E-Field noise providing this noise is within the near -field of the loop. This feature is not available with Vertical and terminated loop antennas. Plus the 20dB nulls previously mentioned. Also balanced loops afford very high rejection of conducted power-line noise. The Pixel loop pre-amp. doesn't improve the S/N ratio except that the IMD noise floor will be much lower compared to single ended amps. Generally speaking the amp. noise of the Pixel loop is on the high side compared to Wellbrook Loops. The RDF is about 5dB. End -fire phasing will improve the RDF whilst still providing rejection of near E-Field noise. However, one requires very low noise loops or larger loops to maintain a good S/N to compensate for phasing signal loss. 73 Andrew Ikin G8LUG _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: The band sans noise
I forget what the Pixel Loop looks like. But if it's anything like a tuned, link-coupled circular loop in the vertical plane with a 20 dB preamp at the loop, it will have two very deep nulls at a very low angle. I made three like that ~35 years ago, between 1 and 4 feet in diameter, made from small coax and two different sizes of CATV hardline. They worked fantastic for nulling out a single, local noise source! But they were worthless for incoming sky wave signals, exactly like the models show. 1. What does the Pixel Loop do better than these and other loops? 2. What does the Pixel Loop's preamp do to improve the S/N ratio??? 3. And what IS its RDF? The preamp I used is described here: www.w0btu.com/W0BTU-broadband-preamps.html 73, Mike www.w0btu.com On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 12:42 PM, Rob Atkinson wrote: > ... we tested that antenna and saw its performance first hand... > K5UJ > > On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 11:26 AM, JC wrote: > > ... PIXEL loop is a low RDF and LOW > > performance receiving antenna, it is really snake oil. > > In tests, the Pixel magnetic loop provided at least 20 dB null off the > > sides. From my experience, that is much better "filtering" than what > > would be had with a horizontal loop. Of course it isn't all in the > > antenna itself--a great deal of the success comes from the special preamp > > designed for use with the antenna. > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: The band sans noise
Throw bricks all you want to the end of time but you'll never change the fact that we tested that antenna and saw its performance first hand; The preamp was designed by Jack Smith at CliftonLabs..I'm sure he'll enjoy reading your comments and get a good laugh. 73 Rob K5UJ On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 11:26 AM, JC wrote: > SORRY am not getting into this PR.. PIXEL loop is a low RDF and LOW > performance receiving antenna, it is really snake oil. > > I'm out of this discussion. > > Regards > > JC > > >>> > In tests, the Pixel magnetic loop provided at least 20 dB null off the > sides. From my experience, that is much better "filtering" than what > would be had with a horizontal loop. Of course it isn't all in the > antenna itself--a great deal of the success comes from the special preamp > designed for use with the antenna. > <<< > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: The band sans noise
SORRY am not getting into this PR.. PIXEL loop is a low RDF and LOW performance receiving antenna, it is really snake oil. I'm out of this discussion. Regards JC >> In tests, the Pixel magnetic loop provided at least 20 dB null off the sides. From my experience, that is much better "filtering" than what would be had with a horizontal loop. Of course it isn't all in the antenna itself--a great deal of the success comes from the special preamp designed for use with the antenna. <<< _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: The band sans noise
>The issue with noise is growing fast and the only way to improve signal to >noise ratio is more directivity and when possible filter the man made noise >with a horizontal loop. A big complication is that almost everyone's circumstances are different due to variables such as property size. A horizontal loop won't work for me (I tried it) because even though most noise is vertically polarized, the sources are so close they still provide a significant field strength on an antenna that is orthogonal to the signal. And, a horizontal loop is omnidirectional so the ability to null is lost. >For 160m you need the horizontal loop high as possible, more information on >my Webnair, the slides are also available here. If you can get it high enough to work, then you are probably on a large enough piece of property to not experience the difficulties I have on a 50 x 100 foot lot in a municipality. In tests, the Pixel magnetic loop provided at least 20 dB null off the sides. From my experience, that is much better "filtering" than what would be had with a horizontal loop. Of course it isn't all in the antenna itself--a great deal of the success comes from the special preamp designed for use with the antenna. I've tried a lot of small rx antennas that can fit on my property, where there isn't even enough room for a flag or pennant. I've tried ferrite "loop stick" antennas, small wire dipoles, ham-stick dipoles, homebrew coaxial small loops, random length wires, and the Pixel loop is by far the best single solution for someone with severely restricted space that I have tried. I didn't intend to post an advertisement but I was genuinely amazed and all my other rx antennas are coming down this summer. 73 Rob K5UJ _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: The band sans noise
Hi all, Talking about man made noise I would like to point at the NCC-1 from DXE. It is a noise cancelling unit/Phasing unit which is way better than anything else on the market. I use it together with a Hi Z RX 4sq and some short beverages. 73 Len SM7BIC -Ursprungligt meddelande- Från: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] För Arthur Delibert Skickat: den 21 april 2016 00:00 Till: topband@contesting.com Ämne: Re: Topband: The band sans noise You don't need to be in the sticks to put up one or two pennants and get a lot of mileage out of them. I have a fairly small suburban back yard; the other houses are pretty close, and they seem to have every kind of RF noise-maker imaginable. Based on where the trees are, I put up two pennants, one facing east and one facing northwest, each with a DX Engineering pre-amp at the antenna. They do a very good job of knocking down the noise level, and the pre-amps produce very little in the way of AM BCB mixing products. I'd like to give you A/B comparisons with other receiving antennas, but I took them down a long time ago, because they just weren't cutting it. Art Delibert, KB3FJO > Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 08:36:26 -0500 > From: ranchoro...@gmail.com > To: topband@contesting.com > Subject: Topband: The band sans noise > > >Q For you folk in the quiet locations, enjoy and protect! > > It's a losing battle. You can't stop the imported appliance tsunami > that has been going on for years, or consumers buying them and > bringing them home and using them. You can run around and try, good > luck with that, and invest hours and days of your ham hobby time on > that instead of what is enjoyable with your remaining years, and maybe > have a few successes, out of many slammed doors, but for every success > there will be 10 more gadgets coming to a house near you and getting > fired up. That ship has sailed--the FCC in the U.S. has washed their > hands pretty much, similar to their abandonment of CB enforcement. > Small government and unfettered commerce have won and to be clear, I > am not generally opposed to small gov't and commerce, but in this case > hams took a hit and that's life. > > It pays to focus on what you CAN control, which is the stuff on your > property, and RF coming on to your property. Unless you are not tied > to a job and can move (the only really effective solution) you have to > break out the wallet and spend some doe re mi on a pair of Pixel Loop > antennas and one of the DX Engineering phasing boxes. If you have > room for anything bigger and farther apart like Flags, Pennants, > beverages and so on, you are probably already in the sticks and don't > have as much of a problem. > > 73 > > Rob > K5UJ > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: The band sans noise
You don't need to be in the sticks to put up one or two pennants and get a lot of mileage out of them. I have a fairly small suburban back yard; the other houses are pretty close, and they seem to have every kind of RF noise-maker imaginable. Based on where the trees are, I put up two pennants, one facing east and one facing northwest, each with a DX Engineering pre-amp at the antenna. They do a very good job of knocking down the noise level, and the pre-amps produce very little in the way of AM BCB mixing products. I'd like to give you A/B comparisons with other receiving antennas, but I took them down a long time ago, because they just weren't cutting it. Art Delibert, KB3FJO > Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 08:36:26 -0500 > From: ranchoro...@gmail.com > To: topband@contesting.com > Subject: Topband: The band sans noise > > >Q For you folk in the quiet locations, enjoy and protect! > > It's a losing battle. You can't stop the imported appliance tsunami > that has been going on for years, or consumers buying them and > bringing them home and using them. You can run around and try, good > luck with that, and invest hours and days of your ham hobby time on > that instead of what is enjoyable with your remaining years, and maybe > have a few successes, out of many slammed doors, but for every success > there will be 10 more gadgets coming to a house near you and getting > fired up. That ship has sailed--the FCC in the U.S. has washed their > hands pretty much, similar to their abandonment of CB enforcement. > Small government and unfettered commerce have won and to be clear, I > am not generally opposed to small gov't and commerce, but in this case > hams took a hit and that's life. > > It pays to focus on what you CAN control, which is the stuff on your > property, and RF coming on to your property. Unless you are not tied > to a job and can move (the only really effective solution) you have to > break out the wallet and spend some doe re mi on a pair of Pixel Loop > antennas and one of the DX Engineering phasing boxes. If you have > room for anything bigger and farther apart like Flags, Pennants, > beverages and so on, you are probably already in the sticks and don't > have as much of a problem. > > 73 > > Rob > K5UJ > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: The band sans noise
Greg, This is the main reason why I am selling my house on the ocean shore front and relocating to a rural area where I can have quieter conditions. I'm taking my radio with me everywhere I think is worth a look and will put up a long random wire and listen with the K3s both day and night for several days, just to be sure it truly is the "right" spot. Good luck on your antenna search. I can tell you the HI-Z triangular is an absolute asset to my RX. 73, Gary KA1J > > Always I have wanted to permamanently run Topband, but there is just too > much QRM and RFI at BOTH my station locations. > > After a late season ice-storm took out power for much of my area last > weekend, I was SHOCKED at the activity and weak signals that were now heard. > Totally amazing- but also a disappointment -as it proved just how much of > our S9 hash-noise is manmade, electrically generated or supported RFI from > "inferior design" devices, bad power line connections etc. It is not > just atmospheric. > > Are quiet magnetic loops the answer? I can't believe they will come close to > providing what I heard ( or didn't hear!) , but am open to advice. Is it > worth having a 160m system on standby for those opportune times when an > electrical blackout gives me my bands back? I wonder. > > Q For you folk in the quiet locations, enjoy and protect! > > But it was almost a religious experience hearing a 160 metre band full of > signals over an S-0 background noise. Yes. All other bands from 70 KHz to UHF > were, equally ethierial! Spectacular experi > Z > > > > Tthanks for letting me share my awakening.! Oh, if only it were like this > all the time! > > Greg > VE3FAX > FN04 > > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: The band sans noise
JC wrote: > http://wwrof.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/WWROF-WEBNAIR-RX-Antennas-for-a-Small-Lot-.pdf The file starts with some incorrect statements: "All we need is 3 dB SNR for CW and 8 dB for SSB" such a statement is completely meaningless if the measurement bandwidth is not stated "3 dB SNR" with BW=3000 Hz becomes 18 dB SNR with BW=100 Hz, with readability practically unchanged "Signal 30db above noise" (pointing to the spectrum diagram) This is comparing apples to oranges. The difference depends on the measurement bandwidth, as above, so "30 dB" is meaningless if the measurement bandwidth is not stated 73, Sinisa YT1NT, VE3EA _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: The band sans noise
Correct link for the pdf file, It has more slides not covered during the time limited webinar http://wwrof.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/WWROF-WEBNAIR-RX-Antennas-for-a- Small-Lot-.pdf JC -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of JC Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 10:36 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: The band sans noise Hi Guys The issue with noise is growing fast and the only way to improve signal to noise ratio is more directivity and when possible filter the man made noise with a horizontal loop. My last presentation is available at www.wwrof.org webinar archive. http://wwrof.org/category/webinar-archive/ One single horizontal loop can make a difference between QSO and no QSO in all bands. Even a not well implemented loop like the one below. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRZyKrsF1CQ For 160m you need the horizontal loop high as possible, more information on my Webnair, the slides are also available here. http://wwrof.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/WWROF-WEBNAIR-RX-Antennas-for-a- Small-Lot-.pdf I'm in a city lot, suburb of Ft Lauderdale Fl, VK0EK. 3D0A, C92, VP8's FT4JA, and almost every active station on 160m are in my log, over 300 countries heard on 160m and #286 worked since 2006, and HWF since 2010. Vertical polarization is not a solution for urban 160m stations to fight man made noise. Regards JC N4IS _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: The band sans noise
Hi Guys The issue with noise is growing fast and the only way to improve signal to noise ratio is more directivity and when possible filter the man made noise with a horizontal loop. My last presentation is available at www.wwrof.org webinar archive. http://wwrof.org/category/webinar-archive/ One single horizontal loop can make a difference between QSO and no QSO in all bands. Even a not well implemented loop like the one below. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRZyKrsF1CQ For 160m you need the horizontal loop high as possible, more information on my Webnair, the slides are also available here. http://wwrof.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/WWROF-WEBNAIR-RX-Antennas-for-a- Small-Lot-.pdf I'm in a city lot, suburb of Ft Lauderdale Fl, VK0EK. 3D0A, C92, VP8's FT4JA, and almost every active station on 160m are in my log, over 300 countries heard on 160m and #286 worked since 2006, and HWF since 2010. Vertical polarization is not a solution for urban 160m stations to fight man made noise. Regards JC N4IS _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: The band sans noise
Hi Rob, I suppose I could just scrap out the gear and put more energy into my music. I play acoustic instruments (no electricity needed) at some dances and other community events along with several other musicians and acoustic instruments. In that role we *ARE* the QRM! And about the remaining time..I bought a big honking, zero-turn mower and even though I now mow the grass for three of my neighbors it takes me minutes instead of hours. I'll be using my remaining time for things that are a lot more fun. Ham radio is still in the lineup here :) BTW..some of the DSP and SDR software (even without SDR hardware) can help pick the signals from between the spikes on the raucous QRM. I get some crap in here that looks like the Burger King's crown on the display with perfectly good signals in between the "ornaments". Hint - hint. 73, Bill KU8H On 04/20/2016 09:36 AM, Rob Atkinson wrote: Q For you folk in the quiet locations, enjoy and protect! It's a losing battle. You can't stop the imported appliance tsunami that has been going on for years, or consumers buying them and bringing them home and using them. You can run around and try, good luck with that, and invest hours and days of your ham hobby time on that instead of what is enjoyable with your remaining years, and maybe have a few successes, out of many slammed doors, but for every success there will be 10 more gadgets coming to a house near you and getting fired up. That ship has sailed--the FCC in the U.S. has washed their hands pretty much, similar to their abandonment of CB enforcement. Small government and unfettered commerce have won and to be clear, I am not generally opposed to small gov't and commerce, but in this case hams took a hit and that's life. It pays to focus on what you CAN control, which is the stuff on your property, and RF coming on to your property. Unless you are not tied to a job and can move (the only really effective solution) you have to break out the wallet and spend some doe re mi on a pair of Pixel Loop antennas and one of the DX Engineering phasing boxes. If you have room for anything bigger and farther apart like Flags, Pennants, beverages and so on, you are probably already in the sticks and don't have as much of a problem. 73 Rob K5UJ _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: The band sans noise
Hi Greg, My noise is not S-9 - at least not over the entire band nor constant around the clock. I do have some manmade noise issues. In my case a mag-loop antenna on receive has been a lot of help. I doubt there is any perfect antenna. But it won't cost you a lot to brew a mag loop from some soft drawn copper tubing, a half decent variable cap and some wire, glue, screws, plastic or wood supports. Just whiz it together for a 'proof of concept' at your location. If it seems useful build a better version or reinforce the one you have made. Things need to be weatherproof to live outdoors very long. The nulls are the main 'feature' of those antennas and can be sharp and deep looking through the donut on each side. They are fairly narrow but if you rotate the antenna and/or tilt it the nulls will be *OBVIOUS*. Due to the size (about five or six feet diameter for top band) the signal strength will be less than for a five element yagi at 150 feet. I have not needed a preamp with my radios to hear some DX. The tuning is very touchy too. Without a reduction gear (or similar) drive you'll need a light tough on the tuning cap and you may need to hold your breath to get it right. I have a dual gang tuning cap with the reduction gear built in and that helps a lot. So spend an afternoon putting something together on the cheap and try it. You won't have much to lose (the materials can be re-used) and it may help you. 73, Bill KU8H On 04/20/2016 07:38 AM, Greg's wrote: Always I have wanted to permamanently run Topband, but there is just too much QRM and RFI at BOTH my station locations. After a late season ice-storm took out power for much of my area last weekend, I was SHOCKED at the activity and weak signals that were now heard. Totally amazing- but also a disappointment -as it proved just how much of our S9 hash-noise is manmade, electrically generated or supported RFI from "inferior design" devices, bad power line connections etc. It is not just atmospheric. Are quiet magnetic loops the answer? I can't believe they will come close to providing what I heard ( or didn't hear!) , but am open to advice. Is it worth having a 160m system on standby for those opportune times when an electrical blackout gives me my bands back? I wonder. Q For you folk in the quiet locations, enjoy and protect! But it was almost a religious experience hearing a 160 metre band full of signals over an S-0 background noise. Yes. All other bands from 70 KHz to UHF were, equally ethierial! Spectacular experi Z Tthanks for letting me share my awakening.! Oh, if only it were like this all the time! Greg VE3FAX FN04 _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband